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Isa Soares Tonight

Judge Hold Hearing on Mahmoud Khalil; Ukraine Accepts U.S.-Backed Ceasefire; 27 Train Hostages Killed in Pakistan. U.S. Says a Ceasefire Deal is in the Kremlin's Hands After U.S. Meeting in Saudi Arabia; Zelenskyy Says He Won't Cede Territory to Russia; EU Responds to U.S. Tariffs on Aluminum and Steel. Aired 2-3p ET

Aired March 12, 2025 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:05:00]

ISA SOARES, HOST, ISA SOARES TONIGHT: A very warm welcome to the show, everyone, I'm Isa Soares. Tonight, what does Russia want? As the U.S. says

a ceasefire deal is in the Kremlin's hands. We'll discuss President Vladimir Putin's peace considerations. Meanwhile, Ukrainian President

Volodymyr Zelenskyy says he won't cede territory to Russia.

We'll speak to Ukraine's former economic minister about that red line. He's here on the show. Plus, a Trans-Atlantic tit-for-tat on Trump tariffs as

Europe and the U.S. trade blows on steel and aluminum. But first, tonight, Moscow, it's your move. That's the message from the U.S. President as

American officials prepare to present a 30-day ceasefire proposal to Russia.

So far, the Kremlin has said very little about the plan, with the spokesperson saying Moscow is awaiting more details on the temporary truce

from the United States. Donald Trump says members of his administration are on their way to Russia, and he believes the onus is clearly now on the

Kremlin to respond.

Here's what he said just a short time ago at the White House. Do we have that soundbite? We know -- well, we'll bring that to you in just a moment

while we try and find. In the meantime, you're looking at, obviously, Keir Starmer because EU leaders have been celebrating the agreement with

Britain's Prime Minister, calling it a remarkable breakthrough.

But clearly, there's still a lot of work to be done. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy says ceding territory to Moscow would cross a red line,

and Kyiv expects the United States to stay -- to take, quote, "strong steps against Russia if it rejects the ceasefire deal."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, PRESIDENT, UKRAINE (through translator): We will not play with the narrative that we do not want the war to end, the narrative

that Russia has and is spreading around the world. I'm very serious about this. It is important for me to end the war. I want the President of the

United States of America to see this. I want Americans to see and feel this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SOARES: So, what kind of a peace deal would Russia accept? And what could President Trump offer his Russian counterpart. Vladimir Putin has said in

the past that Russia would not agree, if you remember, to a temporary truce. Among the possible concessions, Moscow may be seeking a complete

Ukrainian withdrawal from the Kursk region in Russia, which of course, in rare earth minerals.

That's where Russian forces have made some strong gains recently. Moscow will also likely call for limits on Ukraine's long-range weaponry. Keeping

an eye on all the latest lines is our senior international correspondent Fred Pleitgen, who joins us from Moscow with the Russian perspective. Fred,

good to see you.

So, as we heard from Secretary -- from Secretary Rubio yesterday, this time yesterday roughly, very clearly saying the ball is in Russia's court. What

has been the response? What are you hearing from your sources, Kremlin's sources about this 30-day ceasefire?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, and today, again, Marco Rubio saying that he believes that the court is in -- that the

ball is in Russia's court. And of course, President Trump also saying exactly the same thing as well at a meeting just a couple of minutes ago

where he was saying that now everything up -- is up to Vladimir Putin, and he hopes that Vladimir Putin will also sign on to this peace deal.

But so far, we haven't actually heard from Vladimir Putin as all -- as far as all of this is concerned, as far as that ceasefire is concerned. And one

of the lines that we keep hearing from the Russians, Isa, is that they're waiting to get briefed by the Americans. They're waiting to get -- for

instance, by Mike Waltz and by Marco Rubio, they say by various -- via various channels.

The Russians have also not ruled out that there could be American representatives on the ground here at some point this week or in the

upcoming days, and that there could be briefings then as well. But until then, we really don't know what direction the Russians want to go in right

now.

And I think one of the big indicators, the interesting indicators that we're seeing on the ground here, Isa, is for instance, Russian state TV,

who today we're hailing those gains that you were talking about, that the Russians were making in Sudzha in the Kursk region, saying that there were

major in-roads there, that this was all heroic fighting by the Russian forces.

There was very little talk of possibly signing on to a ceasefire. And at the same time, here on the ground in Moscow, of course, there are a lot of

people who are saying, look, we believe that there needs to be a negotiated settlement to all of this. There are obviously a lot of people here in the

Russian capital and in general in Russia, who want the fighting to stop and who want a negotiated settlement.

But there are also some who are saying, look, right now, Russia is making major in-roads, not just in the Kursk region, which of course, is inside

Russia, but controlled partially by Ukraine, but also in other areas on the frontline as well. And so, therefore, they believe that right now might not

be the time for Russia --

SOARES: Yes --

PLEITGEN: For a ceasefire. And there was one prominent senator who came out earlier today and actually warned the United States and said, look, any

peace agreement is on Russia's terms, not on America's terms. Isa.

[14:10:00]

SOARES: Yes, and we heard from President Trump in the last hour or so, saying that it's up to Russia. Now, of course, what you were referring to,

Secretary Rubio saying, our hope is that the Russians will answer yes as quickly as possible. And in many ways, this is Ukraine, Fred, via the

United States in many ways, perhaps calling their bluff.

Then answer this, what would -- how -- what would make -- persuade Putin to accept this, given, as we heard from President Trump just last week, that,

you know, Putin had -- has all the cards, I think was his line, has all the cards. So, how would -- how would Putin sell this --

PLEITGEN: Yes --

SOARES: As a victory to the Russian people?

PLEITGEN: Well, honestly, I think right now, Vladimir Putin came out and said, look, the fighting is going to stop. But then he could sell that as a

victory for the Russians. They obviously hold, I think around 20 percent of Ukraine's territory. They have been making in-roads recently. But of

course, one of the things that the Russians have been saying is that they do have what they call the aims of what they still call their special

military operation, where they say that they want to have the entirety, for instance, of the Donetsk Oblast, they only have about 70 percent of that.

There are still some major cities in that area that are not under Russia's control. So, right now, it is very difficult to see what exactly the

Russians could latch on to. But I think the interesting thing, of course, that the Trump administration and now the Ukrainians with them are offering

up is not to talk about which territories might change hands at this point.

But in the first place, to get the fighting to stop, to simply stop the fighting and then go from there and see how one could come to some sort of

mutual agreement. And that's something that right now for the Russians, I think is extremely difficult, because they are making those in-roads on the

battlefield.

And of course, at the same time, they believe that they've not yet achieved all the things they want to achieve. One of the interesting things that

we've been sort of picking up on here as well is that, so far, we haven't really heard the Russians say all the things that they would be willing to

give or in-roads they would be willing to make.

But a lot of things that they would not be willing to accept, like, for instance, NATO peacekeepers on the ground inside Ukraine. Is something

where the Russians say, absolutely not. The Foreign Minister, Sergey Lavrov, there was an interview today that came out, which he actually gave

yesterday, but it came out today where he said, look, everybody is talking about Russia, but no one is talking to Russia at this point in time.

Exactly at the same time, Isa, of course, as the Americans are saying, look, please talk to us. We're waiting for your answer. Isa.

SOARES: Yes, and what he was referring there, I think Lavrov, was that, he wanted neutral peacekeepers from non NATO countries, I think was --

PLEITGEN: Yes --

SOARES: The point, wasn't it? That he was trying to make there. Fred, as always, really important to get your perspective. Fred Pleitgen for us in

Moscow. Thank you, Fred. Let's get more then on this story. We're joined now by Ekaterina Kotrikadze; news director and anchor of "TV Rain", the

only independent television channel in Russia.

It was forced, if you remember, to shut down in 2022 by the Russian government. She now lives in Europe and continues to broadcast online.

Ekaterina, really great to have you on the show. Look, let me just pick up with really the same question I asked Fred, and maybe you can shed some

light on how you think this will play out. You know what would persuade President Putin to accept this or not accept this ceasefire?

EKATERINA KOTRIKADZE, NEWS DIRECTOR & ANCHOR, TV RAIN: Well, first of all, thank you so much for having me. I think that the concessions or any terms

of this negotiations, terms of the deal were already discussed with Russian side in Riyadh in Saudi Arabia during the meeting between the American

delegation and Russian delegation a couple of weeks ago.

So, I think that when they came to Jeddah, Saudi Arabia, to meet Ukrainians, American delegation already had on their hands the terms that

Russia has actually passed to the United States already. So, I think that it's not going to be about the concessions from Russian side. They already

know -- Americans know, and Russians know what they're doing.

And of course, we understand that Donald Trump, Marco Rubio and others, they're actually playing the game on Russia's terms on this stage. So, what

I think is actually Russian federation is ready to sign this agreement, this preliminary agreement about the ceasefire. And then they would tell

the world and Russian citizens that Russia has actually made everything.

Russia has actually done everything to get the peace. So, they are actually accusing like Donald Trump, like the representatives of the administration

of Donald Trump, they're accusing Ukraine that they don't want to get this peace. So, Vladimir Putin's idea right now is to show that they are ready

for the negotiations.

And as I understand the situation, Vladimir Putin's goal is not to -- you know, is not to get any deals for Ukraine. It's not so important for him.

For him, it's important to become a partner of Donald Trump, to show Donald Trump that he is on his side, on the side of the President of the U.S., to

become a partner and a friend with Donald Trump.

[14:15:00]

To, you know, to let Donald Trump to become a peacemaker, to let Donald Trump to get his Nobel Prize and then to share the world, to become the big

global negotiations about the spheres of interests, about the post-Soviet space globally, about European future globally. I mean, this is the idea

that Vladimir Putin was going to -- I mean, he was achieving this goal during all his period of time in Kremlin. And right now, he is getting so

many presents and gifts from Washington D.C. --

SOARES: Wow --

KOTRIKADZE: I mean, it's unbelievable. But he is getting this. I mean, he is very --

SOARES: No doubt --

KOTRIKADZE: Close to his main goal. Yes --

SOARES: Without even making any concessions. Interesting that you say that because you know, that you think he's just going to play along with it to

play the long game, so-to-speak, because my colleague, Nick Paton Walsh, this is what he writes, Ekaterina, for cnn.com. "As Marco Rubio; U.S.

Secretary of State said of Moscow, the ball is now in their court." That -- "this is true and admirable as an outcome.

But it's also the case that Russia excels at grabbing the ball, pocketing it, debating the rules of the game and points lost three sets ago before

claiming the ball has in fact been stolen clean from them by the other team. The White House is about to get a master-class in real Kremlin

diplomacy."

So, then Putin says, yes, we're on board, and then what happens after that? Speak to -- I mean, can the Kremlin -- from the White House hear tips for

the White House? Can the Kremlin even be trusted to engage in any sort, Ekaterina, of meaningful diplomacy?

KOTRIKADZE: What they want to do is to show to Donald Trump that they are actually a reliable partner. But what I understand about this game coming

from Kremlin is that they really want Volodymyr Zelenskyy; the President of Ukraine, to get out from Kyiv, to get out from his post.

And as we see it, I mean, Donald Trump also doesn't like Zelenskyy. They had a long story of relationships, Vladimir Putin hates Zelenskyy, and I

think that they would plan the -- Washington and Moscow, they would plan to go to the stage when Ukraine would have elections, and then Volodymyr

Zelenskyy, as they plan it, I mean, as they -- as they hope, right?

Volodymyr Zelenskyy would not be President of Ukraine anymore. It was -- it would be Zaluzhnyi or any other -- any other politician in Ukraine. But

then Putin could tell to Russian citizens, look, I told you I was fighting Ukrainian government. This junta sitting in Kyiv, these Nazis, as he calls

them in Ukraine, now, I'm getting things done.

And Zelenskyy is not a President anymore. So, it would be the plan, as I can see it, for Vladimir Putin, and then he would have this peace

negotiations. But after that, you would never know when he breaks his word.

SOARES: Yes --

KOTRIKADZE: He did it in Georgia. He has broken his word in Georgia, after the war of 2008, he broke his word so many times in Ukraine, and then he

can do it whenever he wants. And I'm not sure that Donald Trump would actually defend anyone after years -- after a --

SOARES: Yes --

KOTRIKADZE: Couple of years, let's say. So, yes, I think that would be a plan.

SOARES: He's broken his word so many times. He's -- you know, broken ceasefire numerous times without any sort of impact by the international

community. And on President Zelenskyy, President Zelenskyy said he would step aside if Ukraine would become a part of NATO, which is a red line it

seems for Moscow --

KOTRIKADZE: Impossible --

SOARES: Too. So, it's interesting to see -- it would be interesting to see exactly what concessions they ask for and what President Trump is prepared

to give in with, of course, with President Zelenskyy. Ekaterina, really appreciate you taking the time, your perspective is so important --

KOTRIKADZE: Thank you --

SOARES: Thank you very much indeed. Good to see you.

KOTRIKADZE: Good to see you.

SOARES: And in about 20 minutes, I'll speak with Tymofiy Mylovanov; the President of the Kyiv School of Economics. He tells me the proposed

ceasefire deal is better than expected, and goes a long way towards, of course, restoring U.S.-Ukraine relations. We'll have that story and that

interview in about 20 minutes time right here on the show.

Now, stakeholders are scrambling this hour as some of America's closest allies push back on President Trump's sweeping tariffs. And here's the

latest look at the numbers. Look, it's the first time I'm seeing green this week. So, let's just think this is a win. The Nasdaq up just over 1

percent, the S&P up half of a percent, but the Dow Industrial pretty flat.

It has been a bit of a roller-coaster for the markets, a lot of uncertainty. Earlier, Canada announced a series of retaliatory measures set

to take effect on Thursday. And this just hours after Mr. Trump imposed 25 percent tariffs on all steel and aluminum. The move poses a risky bet since

it will likely raise prices on the key ingredient for American manufacturers, which could then be passed on, as you know, to consumers.

Mr. Trump's tariff plan has also upset the European Union. The EU plans to impose duties on nearly $30 billion worth of American goods. I want you to

listen to what Mr. Trump had to say about this retaliation just a short time ago.

[14:20:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Whatever they charge us with, we're charging them. Nobody can complain about that. Whatever it is,

it doesn't even matter what it is. If they charge us, if they charge us 25 percent or 20 percent or 10 percent or 2 percent or 200 percent, then

that's what we're charging them.

And so, I don't know why people get upset about that, because there's nothing more fairer than that. I have the right to adjust. Not like a block

that just -- I want to lay up -- I have -- it's called flexibility. It's not called inconsistency. It's called flexibility.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SOARES: So, flexibility there. Let's discuss this growing trade war with Stephen Collinson live for us in Washington. And Stephen, I mean, this tit-

for-tat, now we're in the second week, this, you know, whatever you want to call it, tariff roller-coaster. You know, it did seem at the beginning like

a negotiating tactic, and that's how many of us saw it.

But now, it seems it's upending alliances, it's upending economies. I mean, how is this being received, first of all, by the Americans, who perhaps are

not feeling it yet?

STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN POLITICS SENIOR REPORTER: True. But I think everything for everybody is going to start getting more expensive. And at a

time when the U.S. economy is showing signs of softening with declining consumer sentiment, that's not a good thing. I think in the first term,

tariffs were a bargaining chip for Trump, but he absolutely believes in them.

And there are few people around him who can explain to him the damage that they could potentially do for the U.S. economy. So, it seems we're sliding

towards almost a global trade war. I think what's a little worrying there is you saw Trump speak about this, is the adjustment he talks about is

actually instability, and that is making the markets tank and economic sentiment even thinner.

So, that's one problem. And the other thing is, it's now become a mano-a- mano showdown with Trump and foreign leaders. That makes it a lot more difficult for everybody to climb down. And we've seen that in the relations

with Canada, especially over the last few weeks.

SOARES: And this argument that we keep hearing from his administration that this unit, that this is an economy in transition. Do Americans approve

of this strategy?

COLLINSON: No, tariffs are very unpopular. We have a new CNN poll out this morning that shows that a lot of Americans are really souring on the way

that Trump is running the economy. One of the issues that he was elected to fix, only 56 percent now disapprove of his management of the economy.

And it's interesting to me that you often see Presidents get elected, and then when they get elected, they seem often to forget the thing they were

getting elected to fix. So, Trump has been shredding the U.S. government. He's been trying to dismantle the international national security system,

the Trans-Atlantic alliance.

What Americans really want him to do is fix the economy, get prices down and tighten the southern border. He's doing better on the border, he has

majority support so far on his policies on the border. But Presidents sometimes get a little bit out-of-touch when they've been in office for a

little while.

SOARES: And speak about -- let's talk about being out of touch, because on that you write on cnn.com, "as Wall Street reels for a second straight day

on Tuesday, President Donald Trump chose not to appear with worried working people, but to prop up the share prices and wealth of the world's richest

man, Elon Musk, with a bizarre sales pitch for Tesla on the White House South Lawn."

I mean, when I woke up this morning, I saw that, my eyes kind of rolled. How was the pitch received from your vantage point?

COLLINSON: It was very strange. Trump -- cast your mind back to the campaign when he was dressing up in an apron to serve --

SOARES: Yes --

COLLINSON: Fries at a McDonald's, he climbed into a garbage truck when he thought that President Trump had called his supporters garbage. He does

have a real common touch with people, especially on the economy, people really like his promises to get rid of globalization for example, in

Midwest areas where globalization has hollowed out the industrial base.

This just seemed like he had a bit of a political tin ear. I don't know whether that is because he doesn't have many people around him now in the

White House who are seasoned, who might step back and say, Mr. President, are you sure it's really a good idea to appear with a billionaire, the

world's richest man, when a lot of Americans are seeing their retirement accounts plummet.

So, it's possible that was the reason. Let's not forget, however, that Elon Musk spent over $100 million to help elect Trump. Republicans want that

money to come back. So, there's all sorts of conflicts of interests here. But it was a bizarre spectacle, and I think if we do see the economy go

south in the United States, people suffering.

[14:25:00]

Trump's cabinet of billionaires, if they come out and keep telling everybody, look, we're in a period of transition, everything is going to be

fine. I think that's going to be a pretty problematic political position.

SOARES: Yes, a hard pill to sell. I mean, how long is this transition? This is what people will be wanting to know. Stephen, as always, appreciate

it --

COLLINSON: Thanks --

SOARES: Thank you, Stephen. Now, Palestinian activist Mahmoud Khalil will remain in ICE detention as authorities look to deport him from the United

States. We'll have a live report from New York on the very latest. That is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SOARES: Former Columbia University student Mahmoud Khalil will remain in custody as the Trump administration seeks to punish pro-Palestinian

activists for campus protests. While supporters gathered outside, a federal judge said today that Khalil must have more access to his lawyers. He's

apparently being held at a detention facility in the U.S. State of Louisiana.

An order to deport him has been temporarily blocked. Khalil is a Palestinian who is married to an American and was legally living in the

United States. Here is an attorney reading a statement from his wife. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHEZZA ABBOUSHIDALLAL, ATTORNEY FOR MAHMOUD KHALIL: My husband was kidnapped from our home, and it's shameful that the United States

government continues to hold him because he stood for the rights and lives of his people. I demand his immediate release and return to our family.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SOARES: Let's get more on this. Gloria Pazmino, CNN's Gloria Pazmino is in New York with the latest. She's been tracking this story. And Gloria, I'm

just saying that he is going to remain in ICE detention now. Bring us up to date, the very latest. Why is he still being held there?

GLORIA PAZMINO, CNN REPORTER: Well, Isa, we were expecting to be this -- to be -- for this hearing to be somewhat procedural today, and that is

exactly what happened. We did not learn any new details about what the government is expecting to charge Khalil with, or about how the case is

going to move forward, at least for now.

The judge instructed both parties to file their motions by the end of this week. So, that's why Khalil will have to remain in custody, at least for

now. One thing that was decided today which came up during the hearing, is that Khalil's attorneys are going to have more access to him, something

they said they have not been able to do since he was arrested here in New York City on Saturday, taken to a detention facility first in New Jersey

and eventually to another detention facility in Louisiana, where his lawyers say they are unable to speak to him on privileged private calls.

This is what they said. "We literally have not been able to confer with our client once since he was taken off the streets of New York City.

Now, Trump administration attorneys told the judge today that they plan to file a motion to argue that New York does not have jurisdiction over this

case. They're going to make an argument that the jurisdiction should be either in New Jersey, where he was first detained, or in Louisiana, where

he is currently detained. So, that's sort of the first procedural step here.

In the meantime, the deportation order was halted by the judge so they've made it clear that the deportation is not imminent, but we have not yet

learned anything new about exactly what the government is accusing Khalil of. We've heard Trump administration officials refer to alleged Hamas

supporting activity in the role that he played during Columbia University campus protests last year against the war against Hamas. And they have said

that this is evidence of the fact that he was providing support to a terrorist organization and therefore, his green card and his immigration

status here in the United States is going to be revoked.

We have not heard any of that argument here so far yet. For now, the parties are just arguing about jurisdiction. So, by the end of the week, we

are expecting to hear more. But in the meantime, his lawyer's making it clear that he has a constitutional right to speak to his attorneys, at

least for now, while they're fighting this case and as it moves forward. And of course, his family is still calling for him to at least be brought

back to New York so he can be closer to his wife, who happens to be a U.S. citizen and is also eight months pregnant, as well as his attorneys. Isa.

ISA SOARES, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Yes, I'm just saying, at least asking for at least one call Wednesday and one on Thursday with this council.

Gloria Pazmino, I know you'll stay across this for us. Thank you very much indeed.

Return to our top story. The ball is in Russia's court. That is the word from world leaders after Ukraine accepted the U.S.-backed ceasefire deal.

After the break, we'll look at what the deal could mean for Ukrainians. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:35:00]

SOARES: And returning now to our top story this hour as European allies welcome the 30-day ceasefire plan agreed by Ukraine and the U.S., if you

remember this time yesterday. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy says he believes Kyiv can expect the U.S. to take strong steps against Russia if

Moscow rejects the ceasefire proposal. The Kremlin's yet to publicly comment, as you heard at the top of the hour, on the deal.

President Zelenskyy outlined Ukraine's red lines in peace talks, including that Ukraine's occupied territories will not be recognized as part of

Russia. He added that he's not aware of an official invitation to meet with President Donald Trump again. And this comes, of course, how can we all

forget, after their explosive encounter at the Oval Office some 12 days or so ago.

Meantime in Paris, defense ministers from Germany, Italy, Poland, Britain, and France have been meeting, promising concrete steps to boost European

defense and to provide security guarantees for Ukraine. Let's have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEBASTIEN LECORNU, FRENCH DEFENSE MINISTER (through translator): We have to completely rethink a whole part of our security capacity and policy.

These subjects are parfois complex, but we have to speed up. The rhythm which we have at the moment is far too slow, and I hope that this meeting

will push us forward to do -- to act faster.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SOARES: Let's bring in our International Diplomatic Editor, Nic Robertson, who's listening to those conversations. So, Nic, what have we been hearing

from the European defense ministers?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, it's really an articulation of what we've been hearing from other European officials. Just

yesterday we heard an outline from the European commissioner for space and defense, and he was saying -- using exactly the same language that these

ministers are using here, it's time to speed up.

In fact, I think the commissioner yesterday used the example when history is running, we can't walk, which is a reference to the fact that the

European countries need to do more. They need to do it more quickly. They need to spend their money smartly. They need to spend it on systems that

can be sort of jointly manufactured across the different European nations. This is the way to get more bang for their buck.

So, we are hearing some of the groundwork here, being prepared for the spending in the future, but also the coalition of the willing, the support

for Ukraine in the short-term. And I think in that context, it was very interesting to hear from both Marco Rubio and Mike Waltz, U.S. national

security adviser, when they stopped off on their flight back from Jeddah or on the way to the G7 foreign minister summit there in Canada.

When they were stopped off in Shannon in Ireland, Marco Rubio was asked this question, what role do you see in the future here in Ukraine for

European troops? And, you know, he sidestepped the answer a little bit. He said, look, you know, there are many ways to provide this security for the

future of Ukraine to make sure that there will be no further invasion. So, he's not saying no to that, but he's clearly staying away from sort of

definitive language, because the definitive language at this stage may preclude Russia from engaging in a moment when the expectation is they may

engage. But obviously, Russia will be looking for things that they can sort of throw out immediately. So, language about troops might have been one of

those.

And I think the other interesting point from Mike Waltz was speaking on the issue of, you know, what they actually got in those -- what they actually

got in the discussions with the Ukrainians. He said we were able to look in the future. We're able to see what the end of a peace deal might actually

look like. And again, doubling down on what it said yesterday about finding ways to guarantee not just the prosperity, but also the security as well of

Ukraine.

And I think that was, again, to hear him lay out how far their discussions had got and that the Ukrainians were happy with those discussions and

hearing what we heard from Zelenskyy today about his red lines, that the discussions have gone quite away, may not be on the specifics to match what

we're hearing from the European defense ministers, but it's all beginning to move in a very clear direction. Obviously, the hurdle is Russia.

[14:40:00]

SOARES: Yes, absolutely. And on that, we've just heard in the last few minutes, that Trump's national security adviser, you were talking about,

Mike Waltz, has spoken by phone with his Russian counterpart, and that is according to the White House press secretary, Karoline Leavitt. We do not

have a readout of that, but they're awaiting. U.S. says it's a waiting word, Nic, on whether Russia will accept a U.S.-proposed 30-day ceasefire

deal. So, we'll -- I know you'll stay across. And Nic Robertson for us there. Thank you, Nick.

Well, let me take you to Kyiv, because people there tell CNN a ceasefire is the right direction. The question whether a truce is realistic. Have a

listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDRIY VASKO, MUSICIAN (through translator): I think that negotiations are certainly necessary, and any conditions can be considered. The only thing

is that there should be security guarantees. If there are none, then we can talk, of course, but it is unlikely to lead to any consensus.

VALENTYN, DIDENKO, RETIRED SERVICEMAN (through translator): It was the right decision. We passed the ball to the Russians. Now, let the Russians

think as they should, and we will show them what we can do.

OLEKSANDR BEZENAR, ARTIST (through translator): If they agree to a 30-day ceasefire, maybe Russia will stop shooting, but it will be specifically to

build up more weapons, to get more weapons to use later, or to make some other provocation, like they did before, shelling their own city and saying

that it was from our side.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SOARES: Very strong arguments all around. Joining me now is Tymofiy Mylovanov, president of the Kyiv School of Economics, and former Minister

of Economic Development, Trade and Agriculture to Ukraine. Great to see you.

So, Tymofiy, I mean, normally we always have depressing news. It seems that this is a very positive step from, you know, where we have spoken for the

past, kind of, three years. What is your reaction, first of all, to the -- to this 30-day ceasefire deal that has been agreed?

TYMOFIY MYLOVANOV, PRESIDENT, KYIV SCHOOL OF ECONOMICS: Well, it's not yet been agreed, but it's been agreed between the U.S. and Ukraine. My reaction

is very positive. I think the meeting was a success, especially against the benchmark of this fight in the Oval Office. But we also see that Ukrainians

overwhelmingly or uniformly welcome this move, and there is still a lot of apprehension about what the Russia move will be.

AMANPOUR: And of course, this comes as well when intelligence sharing back on track, support, U.S. were support, that is critical as well as the

relationship, of course, that you're talking about here.

MYLOVANOV: Absolutely. I think this intelligence sharing block has done a lot of damage to the trust between the countries. And it's an insult in the

following sense. You know, politicians can fight, OK, you know, we have different views about our own politicians, about each other's politicians,

that's fine. Aid, OK, we can understand that we're hurting, but we can understand that no one owes us a dollar, and we're very grateful for every

dollar, pound, or euro, or anything.

But intelligent sharing, you know, it doesn't hurt you, it's already there. Why are you making a point? And if people die? So, some people started

saying that there's blood on the U.S. hand, and that damaged trust. So, I'm very happy it's back, and it was very temporary.

SOARES: Then how do you see these negotiations playing out? As I just said, I was just saying to Nic, that the national security adviser --

Trump's national security adviser, has spoken with his Russian counterpart. We're awaiting, of course word on whether they will accept this 30-day

proposed ceasefire. How do you think the Russians will respond to this, Tymofiy, first of all?

MYLOVANOV: So, many people I've spoken with believe that Russians will agree to that and then violate and claim it, you know, blame it on Ukraine.

I don't think it's so easy anymore with all this drone monitoring and new technology and satellites and whatnot. So, I think it's more that they will

probably start putting some conditions forward.

SOARES: Who would put conditions forward?

MYLOVANOV: Russians. Russians right now would say, OK, we are open to ceasefire, but let's have elections. You know. They already leaked a little

bit of that. I think Lavrov's spoken about something like that, that we are agreeing to seven days.

SOARES: Oh, they're reducing?

MYLOVANOV: I'm not sure if it's true. It might be propaganda. But, you know, there are -- on the social networks, Russian accounts already leaking

info that it would be -- they might agree to seven days, they might demand elections of Zelenskyy, and so and so forth.

SOARES: And how would then Ukrainians respond to that? Because Zelenskyy said, obviously, when the war, you can't have elections, he said he would

step aside, but only if Ukraine is part of NATO.

MYLOVANOV: The irony of this is that the attacks on Zelenskyy by President Trump have boosted his popularity and his approval ratings are through the

roof. If there are elections right now, well, I think he is definitely back in the office for another term.

SOARES: So, you know, shooting themselves in the foot, probably not a great analogy, but you know, that could potentially be the problem. We

heard from Zelenskyy talking today about those red lines. Territory is a no, no. Give us a sense of if -- in terms of if the -- if Russia agrees to

this, whatever, seven-day, 30-day, whatever it is, ceasefire deal, and then it breaches it, what kind of sanctions, what kind of -- how should the

United States -- whoever is overseeing this, how should they act on this, any breaches of this ceasefire deal, which there have -- every chance has

been a breach.

[14:45:00]

MYLOVANOV: Yes, I've been in government and I've been later an adviser in the previous -- you know, before the war, in the previous period. And

Russia would all the time violate the ceasefire, whatever the ceasefire was at the moment. And we have seen the same pattern with the Black Sea grain

deal, right? They would violate it.

SOARES: Yes.

MYLOVANOV: So, I expect something like that will continue to happen. I also want to --

SOARES: But what, no slap on the wrist? No -- what do they get? I mean, sanctions, they're very heavily sanctioned.

MYLOVANOV: So, that I think is being still debated by the United States, by the new administration about what will be the policy. And I wouldn't be

surprised that in the end there is a possibility that President Trump actually will demonstrate that he is serious about leverage and put some

pressure too.

But I also want to mention one thing about the territories. The red line is actually not per se agreeing or implicitly agreeing to de facto occupation

but more to the legal recognition of that.

SOARES: Right. Let me -- whilst you're talking, I'm just seeing that the White House press secretary in the last few minutes, Tymofiy, has declined

to say if the Trump administration has any enforcement mechanism in place in Russia in case Russia, of course, breaks U.S.-proposed ceasefire with

Ukraine. I'm going to quote her here, "Well, obviously, that's a grand hypothetical question that I won't comment on because we're not there yet.

The current state of play is that the Ukrainians have agreed to a ceasefire. The Ukrainians have agreed to the peace plan that was put on the

table yesterday." And then, that's it.

There needs to be, surely, some sort of enforcement mechanism, does it not? I mean, there's no backstop, there's no long-term security guarantees that

we have seen in terms of -- but surely, there needs to be some sort of enforcement mechanism.

MYLOVANOV: Absolutely. Otherwise, it's not going to be a stable peace. And the reality is the following, that I think the only real security guarantee

will be the strength of the Ukrainian military and support with weapons, infrastructure, intelligence, and financing for defense. That's the

reality. And that is very important to strengthen the European defense capabilities, the Ukrainian defense production capabilities.

Now, in terms of Russia, what I personally worry about, and I think it would be a big mistake, if we allow it, as the world, we allow it to maybe

lift -- get sanctions lifted and get revenues back in, it will put these revenues back into its defense and military complex. It's not going to put

it in education and healthcare and innovation.

So, what we might be preparing for another period of accumulation of wealth, liquidity, in order to strike again.

SOARES: And then, as we know, this is something that Putin understands. It's very transactional, too. He understands and it wouldn't surprise me if

he wouldn't be asking for that. Tymofiy, as always, great to see you. Thanks very much for coming in. Thank you.

Still to come right here on the show a deadly standoff between the Pakistani military and armed militants involving hundreds of hostages.

We'll have the latest on the situation, that is next

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:50:00]

SOARES: 27 hostages on a passenger train in Pakistan have been killed after a standoff between militants and the Pakistani military. A separatist

group called the Balock Liberation Army took over the train on Tuesday and then opened fire. A security source tells us nearly 350 hostages were

rescued and at least 35 militants were killed in the rescue operation. Here's Sophia Saifi with the latest.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SOPHIA SAIFI, CNN PRODUCER: A train hostage crisis that had gripped Pakistan for the past 24 hours has finally come to an end. On late

Wednesday on Tuesday morning, a train that was traveling from Pakistan's southwestern City of Quetta on the way to the northwestern City of

Peshawar, carrying many military personnel was apprehended, attacked and then kept hostage for many, many hours by the Baloch Liberation Army, a

separatist movement, a separatist group that's been operating in the province of Balochistan for many, many years. It's a dramatic escalation to

that insurgency.

We've seen the BLA amp up their attacks in that province, on military installation over the past couple of months. It's finally come to an end

after a slow trickling of information that had been coming in from security sources since Tuesday morning. We've also been told by security sources

that the people, that the militants who were responsible for this attack, the BLA, were constantly in touch with their handlers in neighboring

Afghanistan, according to the security sources.

Now, at the moment, there are coffins that have been sent to the location of where the attack and the hostage crisis took place. We've been waiting

for those coffins to return with the dead bodies. And at the moment, it is a very tragic day in Pakistan. A lot of questions are going to be asked

about what caused such a massive failure of security to happen in this country.

We're going to have to wait and see what the connotations of this attack are going to be to Pakistan's future security policies. But at the moment,

it is a country that is in mourning.

Sophia Saifi, CNN, Islamabad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:55:00]

SOARES: And it may sound like a story from the "Wizard of Oz," but unlike the Tin Man, this patient did not have to follow Dorothy down the yellow

brick road to find a new heart. An Australian man was able to live for 100 days with the help of a titanium heart. Doctors in Sydney not only used the

implant to keep the patient alive, but it also allowed him to leave the hospital while waiting for a donor heart to become available. The patient,

who is in his 40s, had severe heart failure. Truly astounding.

And a guitar shaped shark and a venomous sea snail are among hundreds of new species discovered by a global team of scientists. Ocean Census,

launched in 2023, to plug the huge gap in our knowledge, really, of life deep in the ocean. The global alliance has made up of 800 scientists aiming

to identify about 100,000 new species within the next decade. Investigators found the previously unknown species at depths of up to three miles or

almost 5,000 meters.

And that does it for this hour. Do you stay right here? I'll be back for another hour though with much more news after this short -- very short

break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:00:00]

END