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Isa Soares Tonight
President Putin Accused Of Delaying Ceasefire Negotiations; U.S. Government Shutdown Looms As Frustrated Democrats Look To Find Their Voice In Their Fight Against The Republican Party; Rodrigo Duterte Appears In The Hague; Former Philippine Leader Accused Of Crime Against Humanity; Photojournalist Documents Mass Displacement In Sudan. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired March 14, 2025 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00]
ISA SOARES, HOST, ISA SOARES TONIGHT: A very warm welcome to the show, everyone, I'm Isa Soares. Tonight, talks of cautious optimism over peace
between Russia and Ukraine as President Putin faces accusations of delaying ceasefire negotiations. We have the very latest. And a U.S. government
shutdown looms.
Frustrated Democrats look to find their voice in their fight against the Republican Party. Plus, Rodrigo Duterte appears in The Hague. We'll speak
with Nobel Peace Prize-winning journalist Maria Ressa about the former president's reign of terror. We begin this hour, though, with what's
shaping up to be a high stakes chess match, and the next move belongs to Russian President Vladimir Putin.
A mixed message of sorts from Mr. Putin on the U.S. proposal for a 30-day ceasefire in Ukraine. On one hand, he's calling it great and correct, but
he questioned how a ceasefire would be monitored. There were lots of "buts". He also indicated, as he has in the past, that the current
government in Kyiv is the cause of the problem.
The Russian leader is known, as you all know, as a chess master by friends and foes alike, is notoriously tough to read. So, we've all been trying to
read the tea leaves. Helping us make sense of what we've heard today is our Frederik Pleitgen who joins us from Moscow. And Fred, we heard today,
Secretary Rubio say that there's reason to be cautiously optimistic.
This is the thing we keep hearing following that meeting with Witkoff. What have we heard from Putin? Is he equally optimistic?
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, the Russians are also saying they're cautiously optimistic, but there obviously
still are a lot of things that need to get sorted out. One of the interesting things that we saw just a couple of minutes before we went to
air, Isa, is that Vladimir Putin held a meeting with his National Security Council, a virtual meeting where he said that there was clearly movement in
relations between Russia and the United States.
So, you see that for the Russians, this is not only about the conflict in Ukraine, but of course, they're also after trying to repair relations with
the United States. And they certainly believe that right now they're in a pretty good position to do that. There was also a post by the U.S.
President on his Truth Social account asking Vladimir Putin, as he put it, to spare the lives of Ukrainian soldiers who he says are encircled in the
Kursk region, even though the Ukrainians say that reports of encirclement are not true.
And Vladimir Putin there said, look, as the U.S. President said, they will spare the lives of the Ukrainians if they give up. So, it certainly seems
that, that chemistry, if you will, between Vladimir Putin and U.S. President Donald Trump is certainly one of the driving forces in all of
that. But what that hasn't translated to yet is moving anywhere closer to a ceasefire being implemented.
The Russians are still saying that they have all of those concerns, which they want sorted out. And I think one thing that we've really picked up on
here in the last 24 hours since Vladimir Putin's big press conference with Alexander Lukashenko, is that the Russians also believe that the Trump
administration really doesn't have any levers to pressure the Putin administration, that they are going to do this at their own pace. And in
the end, they want some sort of agreement that is on their terms. Isa.
SOARES: Even though President Trump was asked if he had levers, and he said he did, but he didn't want to talk about those. I think it was at this
time, roughly yesterday. We have heard, though, from President Macron just in the last what? Ten, 15 minutes on X. I'm just going to read and show our
viewers what he said.
I think I'm going to hear, "this Tuesday, the Paris meeting brought together some 40 chiefs of staff of the Armed Forces. But he said and at
the top of it, stood out to me. "Russia must now accept the U.S.-Ukrainian proposal for a 30-day ceasefire. Russian aggression in Ukraine must end,
abuses must stop, so must delaying statements." Do we have a sense, Fred, of what the next step, the next diplomatic step is here.
PLEITGEN: Well, certainly, if you ask the Russians, they say they want all the concerns that they have to be sorted out. And I think the Russian
position, quite frankly, is that they don't need to accept anything that they don't --
SOARES: Yes --
PLEITGEN: Want to accept. And certainly, one of the things that we've heard from the Russian Foreign Minister, Sergey Lavrov, is he flat-out said he
doesn't care at all what the Europeans think in all of this. So, I think on that front, things are pretty clear as far as the Russians are concerned.
But they are saying that, look, before there is going to be a silence of the weapons, if you will, before any ceasefire gets implemented, they want
to see movement in all of these other areas.
[14:05:00]
And, you know, a lot of them, of course, very difficult. This pertains to the territory that the Russians hold that they've taken from the
Ukrainians. It obviously pertains to deeper things, for instance, like the status of Crimea in the future. And those are all very difficult things to
sort out. One of the things, of course, the Russians have also said is they don't want to see any foreign troops on the ground inside Ukraine.
So, there are a lot of issues that, on the face of it, seem extremely difficult to negotiate. And if a ceasefire is not implemented while those
negotiations are going on, the fighting, of course, could go on for an extended period of time. As the Russians are saying, they are on the move,
not just in the Kursk region on their own soil in Russia, but of course, on various other frontlines as well, Isa.
SOARES: No doubt, some will say this is all part of the delay tactics from the Kremlin. I know you'll stay on top of all of this for us. Thank you
very much, Fred, good to see you. Well, President Trump is striking a somewhat optimistic tone about the prospect of peace. In a social media
post, President Donald Trump says American special envoy Steve Witkoff had a good as well as productive hours-long discussion with President Putin on
Thursday, as you can see there.
And he believes there is a very good chance there will be an agreement to bring the fighting to an end. Mr. Trump also referenced claims made by
Russian military officials that Russia had retaken key area in Kursk as Fred was just saying, and that 1,000 Ukrainian troops were surrounded.
President Trump says he asked Mr. Putin to spare their lives. And this is what the U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio had to say about Russia's
reaction just a short time ago. Let's play it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARCO RUBIO, SECRETARY OF STATE, UNITED STATES: Suffice it to say, I think there is reason to be cautiously optimistic. But by the same token, we
continue to recognize this is a difficult and complex situation. It will not be easy, it will not be simple. But we certainly feel like we're at
least some steps closer to ending this war and bringing peace. But it is still a long journey.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Let's get more from the White House, from CNN's Jeff Zeleny. Jeff, good to see you. It seems as we heard from Fred, we've heard from the
Russians, we're hearing from the Americans. Lots of positive noise from this administration following Witkoff's meeting with Putin. But do we know
from the U.S. side what was said and what President Putin's looking for as part of this deal? Because we seem to have had more concessions potentially
being asked of Ukraine than of Russia so far.
JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF U.S. NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: That's certainly what it seems like. And this diplomatic language is clearly
signaling the United States believes there could be a deal at hand. But just listen to the words of Secretary of State Marco Rubio there, saying
it's a long journey, cautiously optimistic.
So, the bottom line is, we do not know. What we do know is that we are expecting at some point a conversation, a telephone call between Vladimir
Putin and the American President, Donald Trump at some point in the coming days. A new television interview that President Trump did yesterday, but
it's going to be airing on Sunday.
He mentioned that by Monday, things should become more clearer. So, we do not know if that's when his phone call with Putin would be. But that's what
appears to be next in this. But in terms of specific concessions, it is slightly unclear. But look, the United States here and the Trump
administration is clearly beholden to a Putin and waiting for what the Russian response and a shoe to fall is here.
The United States has far fewer cards here. They have reset the relationship, now it's in Putin's hands to see exactly what to do with
that. But for the Trump administration, very cautious words, which clearly is a sign that they believe some type of a ceasefire is possible. Isa --
SOARES: Yes, in the meantime, the last, what? Ten, fifteen minutes? We've heard the French basically saying abuses must stop, so must delaying
statements. Talking of obviously about President Putin and whether he will agree to this 30-day ceasefire. But sticking with this, I was just looking
at some -- Jeff, some of the latest polling on this, and CNN polling finds that 59 percent of Americans think it's not too likely -- not at all
likely, that Trump's approach will bring long-term peace between Russia and Ukraine.
And this, of course, from the same man who said he could end the war in one day. How is this story playing with the American people within -- with his
base?
ZELENY: In terms of ending the war in one day, President Trump was also asked about that in a new interview that we saw just moments ago, it will
be airing this weekend on some U.S. broadcasts. And he said he's being sarcastic, saying that he would end the war in one day. Of course, he never
said that at the time.
But look, the bottom-line to all of this is, this is taking a toll on his standing here in the United States. I mean, particularly when it comes to
Russia. You know, there is a long history, a long, deep skepticism of certainly older voters, but really, voters of all ages in terms of the
approach with Russia, and just the sympathetic and overly-friendly reset of relations after what the world saw with the invasion of Ukraine.
[14:10:00]
That is not going down all that easily with the American public. So, I think that's what speaks to some of his disapproval ratings there and deep
skepticism of his ability to reach some kind of a ceasefire. But look, we shall see. It is a notably different tone, certainly toward a Ukraine.
We're just two weeks on from that disastrous diplomatic breakdown --
SOARES: Yes --
ZELENY: In the Oval Office. And we are, you know, inching closer toward a potential deal. So, I think we shall see. It will take a bit of time, but
I'm struck by just the cautious tones by U.S. officials, and that's not how they always are in this administration. Isa.
SOARES: Yes, and we're just getting new lines exactly on your reporting just now regarding this interview that was taped on Thursday, that is
coming out over the weekend, we'll know a little bit more Monday about the ceasefire. But they said --
ZELENY: Right --
SOARES: He was being sarcastic, right? About ending the war in 24 hours. Yes, sarcasm is always great. Jeff, always great to see you. Thank you very
much.
ZELENY: Great to see you, my friend.
SOARES: Now, President Trump often likes to brag about his great relationship with President Putin, but can he succeed in negotiating a
ceasefire deal with Ukraine? That is, of course, the big question. I put that to Kenneth Roth. Roth was the executive director of Human Rights Watch
for nearly three decades, grappling with some of the world's biggest autocracies, which he writes about in his new book.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KENNETH ROTH, AUTHOR & FORMER EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH: The big issue is not, you know, where the ceasefire is going to be drawn --
SOARES: Yes --
ROTH: Because that's going to be at the frontlines.
SOARES: Yes --
ROTH: The big question is, does Ukraine get a security guarantee so that Putin doesn't use the pause in the fighting to replenish his diminished
forces, to re-arm and to re-invade in a few years to go after the real prize in his view, which is not a little bit of territory in eastern
Ukraine, but Kyiv, the capital, to destroy Ukraine's democracy, so it doesn't serve as a model for the Russian people. And the British and French
governments have said we'll put peacekeepers on the ground, but we need a U.S. backstop.
SOARES: Yes --
ROTH: And Trump so far is saying, no, you have my mining deal. That's a security guarantee which, as if true --
SOARES: Yes --
ROTH: Putin could care less about a bunch of miners --
SOARES: Yes --
ROTH: In eastern Ukraine. So, the real issue here, I think, is pushing Trump and drawing the lessons from the book. You know, Trump, too, has a
reputation that he cares about. In his case, he's a master negotiator, a great deal maker. And if we can show that, you know, a bad deal in this
case would result from failing to provide the security guarantees, that the only way to have a good deal is to ensure Ukraine's democracy.
We can, in a sense, get Trump to do the right thing for the wrong reasons. And if he doesn't, we can make clear, you know, you're going to go down in
history --
SOARES: Yes --
ROTH: As the Neville Chamberlain of the 21st century who appeased Putin, and he basically fool you into allowing this temporary ceasefire to go
forward.
SOARES: So, we kind of know what Trump wants. You've just laid that out. And that is so important as you go into these negotiations, that he wants
to be seen as a great dealmaker. He wants that Nobel Peace Prize, whether that's --
ROTH: Which is great --
SOARES: In Ukraine, whether that's in the Middle East, and we can talk about the Middle East in just a moment. But we know what he wants, whether
he cares about any sort of -- whether he cares about Ukraine having its sovereignty and territorial integrity.
ROTH: Not at all.
SOARES: He doesn't.
ROTH: Yes --
SOARES: You think he does?
ROTH: No, I think he doesn't at all. In other words, I think that, you know, if you say to Trump, you're ignoring human rights, you're ignoring
Ukraine's democracy. He would say, well, what's that? You know, he could care less. He cares about one thing, which is himself. And so --
SOARES: Yes --
ROTH: We need to kind of take this man as he is, and figure out, you know, how do we use his desire for a good reputation as he defines it, and push
him in the right direction? And I do think that he doesn't want to be seen as the guy who was, you know, fooled by Putin, the guy --
SOARES: Yes --
ROTH: Who Putin kind of manipulated and ego-stroked --
SOARES: Yes --
ROTH: And got through a bad deal. So, that gives us something to work with. I'm glad he wants the Nobel Peace Prize. It gives us something to, you
know, condition --
SOARES: Yes --
ROTH: For a good deal.
SOARES: What about what Putin wants? Because a lot of the tactics that you're talking about, the shaming, which I don't think Putin cares about --
ROTH: Not any more --
SOARES: Any of that, but what does he want? Do you think he wants? Because we know he's got this expansionist ideas. He wants the -- you know, old
Soviet Union back. So, what do you present? How do you enter negotiations with someone who has that vision?
ROTH: Well, I think for Putin, this is a matter of life and death. In other words, his economy is tanking, his military is depleted. He needs to be
able to declare victory and stop. Now, obviously, he would like to resurrect the Soviet Union. That's not going to happen. I think his -- he
ideally at least would like to snuff out Ukraine's democracy, and hopefully, Trump won't let him.
[14:15:00]
So, the key is, you know, how do you allow Putin to pretend that he won? And it may be enough for him to say, oh, I got, you know, a good part of
the four provinces in eastern Ukraine, you know, these were Russian- speaking areas, I've taken them back into the motherland. He does control the propaganda in Russia. He has imposed a censorship regime. So, he can
spin positively whatever emerges from this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: And of course, we'll bring you much more of my conversation with Kenneth Roth later this month on Isa's Book Club. Before that, be sure to
tune in next week for another fascinating read, Catherine Airey debut novel, "Confessions", follows three women in the same family and the
secrets that passed down through generations. Have a little listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CATHERINE AIREY, AUTHOR: I think when you're a child as well, you sort of only ever hear half stories --
SOARES: Yes --
AIREY: From your -- like parents, from your grandparents, and you're trying to piece it together. But there's that frustration there that you never
knew your parents before you were born, and you can't really ever fully know somebody.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Still to come, though, tonight the U.S. Democratic Party is left deeply divided as they barrel toward a possible government shutdown.
Details ahead on who could be impacted by the controversial spending bill. Plus, a former president of the Philippines makes his first appearance at
the International Criminal Court. We'll speak to one reporter who has interviewed Rodrigo Duterte. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: And all eyes on Capitol Hill right now where lawmakers are racing to avoid a government shutdown ahead of a midnight deadline. Democrats are
getting ready to cast a key vote on a Republican spending bill that was crafted without their input and has deeply -- has them deeply divided.
Some say the government is already shutting down whether this bill passes or not, and a yes vote would signal their approval with President Trump's
agenda and his efforts to dismantle federal agency. But Democratic leader Chuck Schumer says he will vote in favor of the bill, calling it the best
of bad options.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): While the CR bill is very bad, the potential for a shutdown has consequences for America that are much worse. A shutdown
would give Donald Trump, Elon Musk and DOGE, and vote the keys to the city, state and country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Well, the cracks within the Democratic Party are growing, here's what House Minority leader Hakeem Jeffries had to say about the drama just
moments ago.
[14:20:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY): It is a false choice that Donald Trump, Elon Musk and House Republicans have been presenting between their reckless and
partisan spending bill and a government shutdown.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Let's get more on all this. Arlette Saenz is tracking the drama unfolding on Capitol Hill. So, Arlette, just break it down for us. What
exactly in this bill do Democrats just do not like? Because I was looking at spending numbers and they're relatively the same as they were under
Biden.
ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Isa, they are. But Democrats find themselves in a tough spot at this moment as they, one, don't want to see
this plan that passed with almost entirely Republican support in the House pushed its way through. But then there is also the concern among some
Democrats, like Senate Minority leader Chuck Schumer, who says that a government shutdown would essentially empower President Trump and Elon Musk
to do more to dismantle the federal government.
But what Democrats have taken issue with in this bill that passed the House is that they argue that it doesn't give directives for specific funding for
programs or projects. Essentially, what some of these Democrats in the House and Senate have argued is that it's giving the Trump administration a
slush fund, giving them the opportunity to do what they want with these money for these programs at a time when they've already shown that they've
disregarded a lot of the rules that are in place.
One thing that Democrats had wanted to do was maybe try to put up a fight, use this moment to put some guardrails in place to rein in the Trump
administration, but that is something that they were not able to do with this Republican passed bill in the House. There's also another measure in
there that essentially prevents lawmakers from being able to bring up a vote on the ability of the President to enact tariffs.
That is also something that does not sit well exactly with Democrats. So, this -- these types of things are all going into consideration as they
argue they don't want to give the Trump administration a blank check. They think that the bill that's passed the House, that likely is going to pass
the Senate, that is essentially what it is doing as well.
And so, that's why a lot of people have said that they want to use this moment to try to have some leverage, to try to have some fight as President
Trump continues with many of his actions in his first two months in office.
SOARES: Yes, and we heard there, Hakeem Jeffries clearly voicing his frustration, clearly deep divisions, Arlette, within the Democratic Party.
Some, I have no doubt, feeling outraged, betrayed by Senate Minority leader Chuck Schumer. Just speak to that.
SAENZ: Yes, we really are seeing this episode, very deep fissures within the party coming right to the surface. You have a large contingent of House
Democrats who have started to voice their frustration. Hakeem Jeffries is one of them, and in fact, when our colleague Annie Grayer asked him whether
he had confidence in Schumer's leadership, he simply said, next question.
Really not giving Schumer any backup. We also heard from former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, who is still a very powerful voice in the Democratic
Party, and she released this statement that didn't call out Schumer by name, but it was clear who she was talking about. She said, "let's be
clear, neither is a good option", referring to a shutdown or not a shutdown, "for the American people. But this false choice that some are
buying instead of fighting is unacceptable."
Now, that's a sample of some of the frustration that's been going Schumer's way. Over here in the Senate, where I am, Senate Democrats have really hold
off on criticizing Schumer directly. I'm sure that there is some frustration about how he has handled this. But really, what people have
said is they disagree with him, but they have respected his decision.
We will see whether that actually holds in the coming hours and in the coming days. Now, just moments ago, we had the third Democratic senator
announce that she would be joining Chuck Schumer and John Fetterman to go ahead and vote to avert the government shutdown. And that is Senator
Catherine Cortez Masto of Nevada.
She released a statement a while -- a short-while ago, saying that a shutdown would be devastating for Americans, that she doesn't want to give
Trump more power. And so, now there -- Republicans need five more Senate Democrats to get on board in order to avert this shutdown by tonight, we
expect that first key procedural vote to happen in the next hour or two, which could give really answers about how this is heading.
SOARES: Yes, I know Cortez Masto there saying this was not an easy decision. She says "I'm outraged by the reckless actions of President
Trump, Elon Musk and the Republicans in control of Congress, so, I refuse to hand them a shutdown where they have free reign to cause more chaos and
harm." I'll know -- I know you'll stay across the drama, no doubt, there will be plenty of drama today. Thank you very much indeed, Arlette.
[14:25:00]
And Democratic lawmakers are also facing pressure from their constituents. Voters say Democrats aren't doing enough to push back against the radical
changes taking place in Washington. CNN's Eva McKend has more for you.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BOBBI ERICKSON, LOCAL DEMOCRATIC ORGANIZER: Either of you registered Democrats?
EVA MCKEND, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Bobbi Erickson is a proud Democrat.
ERICKSON: My name is Bobbi. I'm a volunteer with the local Democratic committee.
MCKEND: But that pride does not extend to Democratic leaders at the moment.
ERICKSON: We're scrapping every single day to get volunteers to get Democrats on the ballot, to get votes out. And if they would work half as
hard as we do, I would have no complaints.
MCKEND: Erickson lives in Jefferson County, Pennsylvania, where Trump won 79 percent of the vote. She's used to being in the minority. Do you feel as
though Democrats are adequately representing you right now?
ERICKSON: I don't. I don't think they're matching my energy. We're watching the constitution burn. We're watching the country that we love be
systematically dismantled, and they're not angry enough about it.
MCKEND: In 2022, Erickson campaigned to get Senator John Fetterman elected, but now she's among the nearly three quarters of Democrats across the
country who want to see Democrats in Congress do more to oppose the Trump agenda.
ERICKSON: He's told us previously that when we worry about these things, we're clutching our pearls. I would say, guess what, Fetterman? I'm a lunch
lady. I don't have pearls.
MCKEND: In nearby Clarion County, Kali McLaughlin is equally frustrated.
KALI MCLAUGHLIN, LOCAL DEMOCRATIC ORGANIZER: It's really a moment for action.
MCKEND: McLaughlin has multiple sclerosis, which makes the grueling work of canvassing challenging, but she says she still covered about half of her
rural county on foot, campaigning for Democrats.
MCLAUGHLIN: We are the ones that put them in office, right? We're kind of responsible for them. That's who we should be going after.
MCKEND: That's why she felt especially disappointed when Fetterman broke ranks with his party, becoming the only sitting Senate Democrat to visit
Trump at Mar-a-Lago in January, and to join Republicans in voting to confirm Trump's nominee for Attorney General, Pam Bondi. A few hours away
in blue Philadelphia, voters rally weekly outside Fetterman's office to voice their dissatisfaction. That's where we met Michelle Flamer, a retired
attorney for the city.
MICHELLE FLAMER, RETIRED ATTORNEY FOR THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA: I have to do something. In my view, our nation is on fire, and we are actually in a
constitutional crisis now.
MCKEND: She is in disbelief with how Democrats have, in her eyes, thrown in the towel.
FLAMER: In the middle 1800s. If you look at Philadelphia, we had 20,000 free black people living in Philadelphia at the time. They were very much
engaged in the underground railroad activities. How much power did they have? But still, these people persevered. It's a matter of persistence.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Stand up! Fight back!
MCKEND: Flamer, like many Democrats, wants to see her party stand together.
FLAMER: I don't want you just to stand down and, you know, be passive or say, oh, we just have to wait until the Midterms, just give us more money
and we'll take care of it in the Midterms. No, we need to fight right now.
MCKEND: Eva McKend, CNN, Pennsylvania.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOARES: Important report there from our Eva McKend. Still to come, Canada is welcoming its newest leader.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARK CARNEY, PRIME MINISTER, CANADA: Do solemnly and sincerely promise and swear that I will truly and faithfully, and to the best of my skill and
knowledge, execute the powers and trust reposed in me as Prime Minister.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: And with that, Mark Carney has been officially sworn in as Prime Minister. The change comes after Justin Trudeau formally stepped down. Some
experts believe Carney, an ex-central banker is perfect for the job as Canada grapples with a difficult relationship with the Trump White House as
well as a trade war.
The new Prime Minister touched on President Trump's continued calls for Canada to become the 51st state, and this is how he responded.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CARNEY: I have been clear, personally I've been clear, the ministers behind me, I think to an individual when asked, have been clear, that we will
never, ever in any way, shape or form be part of the United States. America is not Canada. Look at the ceremony we just had. You could not have had
that ceremony -- you would not have that ceremony in America.
Look at the cabinet behind me. You would not have that cabinet in America. You do not have that cabinet in America. We are very fundamentally
different country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: And still to come tonight, will speak to Maria Ressa, Nobel Peace Prize-winning journalist, about the arrest of former Philippines President
Rodrigo Duterte. Plus, a glimpse at life inside war-torn Sudan. Photojournalist Giles Clarke (ph) captures the aftermath of mass
displacement. Our conversation is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: Welcome back, everyone. A man nicknamed The Punisher could finally be facing punishment for his alleged crimes. Rodrigo Duterte, the former
president of the Philippines has made his first appearance at the International Criminal Court in the Hague. The 79-year-old is charged with
crimes against humanity for his crackdown on drugs. He's suspected of killing thousands, including civilians, caught in the crossfire while he
was in office.
Earlier today officials at the Hague outline the legal proceedings. Have listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Today's hearing is neither the start of the trial nor it is -- nor is it a confirmation of charge's hearing. During today's
hearing, no evidence will be collected or presented and the issues of Mr. Duterte's guilt or innocence will therefore not be addressed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Well, my next guest, Maria Ressa, has decades of experience in journalism including as a former CNN Bureau Chief. Resa founded the highly
influential news and social activism site, Rappler, fighting fearlessly to investigate Rodrigo Duterte's regime and violent anti-drug campaign. And
that coverage made her a target of Duterte and his supporters including death threats, attempts to put her out of business, even send her to jail.
And her work of course won her the Nobel Peace Prize as well as being named Times Person of the Year.
Maria wonderful to have you on the show. As we've just outlined there, you have been a both -- really exposing much of the abuse of power, violence,
and authoritarianism under Duterte. What does this moment mean, Maria, first of all, to you and to so many of others, thousands of others I should
say who suffered at the hands -- at his hands.
[14:35:10]
MARIA RESSA, CEO, RAPPLER: You know, the you know the first casualty in the Philippines battle for facts is really the number of people killed during
this brutal drug war. You can say thousands or tens of thousands, right? And either one could be correct because that was that -- but I think what
we saw this week, the arrest of Duterte nearly a decade after he was elected in 2016 is a reminder to the world at a time when we seem to be
living in the age of impunity that justice comes at some point and that impunity doesn't last forever.
SOARES: Yes. Clearly a moment also for international justice is what you're hinting at there, Maria. The ICC as you all know has faced scrutiny for
kind of its inability to follow through on some of its arrest warrants whether it's Prime Minister Netanyahu of Israel, whether it's Yoav Gallant
of Israel, whether it's President Putin. What is the message then to those leaders?
RESSA: I think what you're seeing today, what we've been fighting and trying to figure out is whether or not an international rules-based --
Philippines did -- despite its own internal politics right. We went from the hell of Rodrigo Duterte's six-year term. I joke now that often we feel
like in purgatory, that it is possible that there are times that there is hope in an international system of -- based on rules and laws.
SOARES: And we'll talk about rules in just a moment, but I'll just take you back to the Philippines because I wonder whether you've had conversations,
Maria, with some of the victims -- the families of the victims of the of the drug war because this is, like you said, this is a historic moment.
Just tell us what you're hearing from them because I imagine for so many, for so many years, they kind of perhaps lost faith into the domestic
accountability mechanisms in the country.
RESSA: Well, that's exactly why the international criminal court has stepped in. And part of the reason it's gotten to this point is because so
many -- the witnesses have continued and continued to work behind the scenes. You know, if you look at the actual charges, they refer to the
Rappler stories, the stories that the journalists kept doing to bring these victims to light. Nd I think it just shows you that you really can't give
up, that you have to hold the line, that you need to demand accountability, and that it's some point there is hope, right? This is what it's showing us
in the Philippines.
And when that plane took off from Manila -- from the airport in Manila to go to the Hague, you could hear the cheering that happened.
SOARES: But he does have some support. Speak to that because I saw protesters in the Hague. We've seen some protesters also come out in force
in the Philippines. He clearly has some support at home. And I mean, his daughter even questioned the manner in which his -- her father was taken.
She said -- I'm quoting him here. This is oppression and persecution.
RESSA: I think that's ironic given that the her -- never gave due process to the tens of thousands according to human activists that have been killed
during that drug war. But look there are definitely -- Rodrigo Duterte and his family have held -- he has held control of Davao City in the Southern
Philippines, a city of about a million people on and off since 1988. They are the stronghold in the South.
His daughter Sarah Duterte is the Vice President of the Philippines. Her rift with President Marcos who holds a stronghold in the north, her rift
with him has led to this, has partially led to this arrest. A few weeks ago she was just impeached. And now, what's happening is in May we will have
midterm elections and that new Senate that will be elected will be the one that will sit in impeachment processes against Sarah Duterte.
Rodrigo Duterte himself is running for mayor of Davao City again, so -- May elections and is to the benefit of the Marcos Administration.
SOARES: And you know, in a time when we're seeing the rise of autocracies, when we're seeing the international -- the rules-based international system
kind of being challenge, when we're seeing even President Trump attacking, Maria, the ICC, right, signing executive orders, accusing the organization,
and I'm going to quote here in engaging in "illegitimate and baseless actions" because it says it's targeting U.S. and it's ally Israel.
How do you make sense of this attack that we are seeing on the rules based system by this president?
[14:40:07]
RESSA: I think this is a brief light that's there, right? Duterte -- President Duterte and President Trump have similar ways of governing. The
disinformation that flooded social media in the Philippines -- Trump before Trump was -- Trump, right? He was called the Duterte -- Trump at some point
was called the Duterte of the East.
So, it's I think this shows you that this kind of impunity that these types of strongman leaders exercise in my book, How to Stand Up to a Dictator,
literally they collapse institutions in their own countries, checks and balances are gone, and then they go off and they create alliances that
weaken democracy in other parts of the world. We're seeing this playing out right now in in fast forward motion from the United States.
This is a reminder from the Philippines that these actions that breaking rule of law will have consequences, so we hope.
SOARES: Yes. We hope. You know, I'm surprised on this side, Maria, that not -- we're not seeing more protests in the United States. We are starting to
see some voices come out, but that surprises me. Does that surprise you?
RESSA: Absolutely. And I think part of that is, you know, Americans are -- there's a sense of American exceptionalism. It happens out there. It can't
happen here. And I think what we've learned in the Philippines and -- is that it when it happens, when a dictator to be, a strongman leader takes
control and begins to collapse these institutions, you are at your most powerful at this moment. And if you do not use the power you have, if you
remain silent, you give consent and you only get weaker over time.
That's what we learned at Rappler. We continue doing our journalism. We held the line. And you know, if Americans don't do that, then you
voluntarily give up your rights.
SOARES: I really appreciate, Maria, you coming on and talking us through what has been. It's going to be a historic hearing here at the Hague, no
doubt. An historic moment as well for so many in the Philippines. Maria Ressa, I appreciate it. If you haven't read her book, go and read it, How
to Stand Up to Dictators. It's fantastic. Maria, good to see you. Thank you very much.
RESSA: Thanks for having me.
SOARES: And still to come tonight, a war on women. That's how my next guest describes the situation in Sudan. My conversation with award-winning
photojournalist Giles Clarke. That's just ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: U.S. President Trump's freeze on foreign aid could not have come at a worse time for Sudan, a country embroiled in conflict gripped by famine
and a place where women and girls repeatedly endure sexual violence. As Sudan civil war soon enters its third year, photojournalist Giles Clarke is
documenting the scale of that brutality.
And you are looking right now at the portraits of some of the Sudanese women facing mass displacement, photographed by Giles in and around one
abandoned classroom. Giles just returned from Sudan and joined me in the studio. I started by asking just how much the humanitarian situation had
deteriorated.
[14:45:34]
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GILES CLARKE, PHOTOJOURNALIST: Well, first of all the mass displacement, the fighting started in April 2023. So far, 12 million people have fled
from Sudan. Three million have gone over the border, but the other nine million are all over various parts of Sudan. And in this region you see
here, over half a million settled. And so, this is where I base myself -- this and another town in eastern Sudan. This is just some 30 kilometers
from the Eritrea border which in previous history had another mass displacement.
So, this area is very used to mass displacement and there are camps off camera. But much of this community -- much of these houses down here have
become sort of host communities for the -- for the displaced.
SOARES: Yes. And you have focused primarily particularly I should say on women. You've called this a war on women. Why did you say that? Speak to
what the stories you're hearing, to what you have been seeing. This is one of your photos. Women and children is what you focus primarily on, Giles.
CLARKE: Yes. Well, having -- I mean, I've been sort of been covering this area for sort of you know 15 years. I've worked in all the neighboring
countries. And there's a pervasive sort of entrenched deep inequality in gender. There always has been in this region. So, put a war on top of that,
then you get even more of a catastrophe.
I wanted to focus on that in Sudan because other than the we know of the horror stories that have happened within Khartoum and women escaping, I
wanted to see how they were dealing with displacement. In this particular picture, there had been a drone strike a few hours before on a nearby
hydroelectric plant. It had taken out all the power in the -- in the entire region.
And I was at a hospital. I went to a hospital as soon as it happened, and of course, they had no power. And this is a newborn baby and a mother and
her mother just tending this child. So, this is sort of emblematic of a scene that sort of happens a lot in Sudan.
SOARES: And as I was going through your photos particularly as you focus on the women and the children, there was one lady that stood out to me. Her
name is Dr. Taysee, 26-year-old. She became a doctor. And tell us about her and why -- and why you focused on her. What was so special and so
interesting about her story, Giles?
CLARKE: Well she originally -- she originally fled from Khartoum. She was a medical student. When the war happened, she was in her -- almost her final
year of medical studies. And she told me that she had fled with nothing more than her phone. And she had negotiated her way through very dangerous
checkpoints where as we again know that a lot of women were taken, a lot of young men were taken. So -- but I met her in in that town which we just
previously showed. I met her. She's now living in a former school.
And I had been -- I was in the school with UNDP and UNOCHA who was supporting my journey through the -- through the country. And one of the
places they were supporting was this former school. And inside -- in the school, I met Dr. Taycee who came up to me in perfect English and said, how
can I help you? And through Dr. Taycee, I was able to create this sort of dialogue with a lot of the women who had been displaced and who really
hadn't spoken to anybody about their experience.
So, through this extraordinary woman -- she's an activist. She's a she organizes -- she organizes groups for female trauma. And she's also a
doctor now. She finished her studies in the town and she's now a qualified doctor. So, these are inspiring people and these are the people I like to
focus on.
SOARES: And I wonder from the conversations that you have with Dr. Taycee and others, what is the common thread? What is the common thing that you
hear from them, Giles.
CLARKE: I think that trauma is very deep. But there's also a -- there's an urge -- I mean, sometimes I was with them all laughing, and other times
there'd be someone in the corner crying, you know. So, it's very difficult to -- the common thread I suppose is that they want the war to end.
SOARES: Yes.
CLARKE: And they want to get back to their lives. A lot of them have lost their children. Families have been split. Their husbands are still in
Khartoum protecting whatever house they had before. And so -- and a lot of them have lost people in in front of them.
[14:50:14]
SOARES: I've spoken to many people from USAID here on the show that have been very, very concerned about the impact of President Trump's decision.
This photo I think you took before the decision came, is that right?
CLARKE: Yes.
SOARES: What are you hearing? What have you been hearing regarding the impact of this on a country like Sudan?
CLARKE: It's really hard to -- for me to sort of even talk about the impact on it because having seen how much aid is need, how much aid is needed to
look after this crisis, it's vast. I mean, everything from -- especially healthcare. And this particular case was a cash disbursement is 200 -- I
think $150 a month that the families use just to buy the real basics.
Now, bear in mind that these are people who fled from the war. They have no work. There is nowhere to -- for them to go back to at the moment because
these areas are still under conflict. So, this was really their lifeline. So, to sort of put it into simple words, they've had their lifelines cut.
And there are other people who are stepping in. And of course, there are community kitchens and there are -- you know, there is -- I know Tom
Fletcher from UNOCHA released 110 million to -- for an emergency fund. But these are just drops in the ocean that are needed.
And really we need to have access, there needs to be opening all sorts of funds that are going to keep these people alive because that's pretty much
is -- that's pretty much the state of it. It's life and death in many ways.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOARES: And our thanks to Giles Clarke for the interview and those fantastic, breathtaking photos.
Now, Serbia's government is urging people to avoid this weekend's planned protests or face arrest. This is a scene right now in Belgrade. These are
live pictures. It's almost 8:00 p.m. you see there. The country has seen months of anti-graft protests in response to the right-wing government and
its handling of a train station disaster.
Earlier today, police arrested six activists and said they found explosives in the capital. We'll keep an eye on those life pictures and nearly
developments, of course, that come out of Belgrade and will bring them to attention if it changes.
And still to come tonight, it's the news Ted Lasso fans have been waiting nearly two years for. We'll tell you the big news next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:55:20]
SOARES: Well, hopefully, you were one of the people to catch the rare cosmic show that happened last night for the first time since 2022. We saw
a total lunar eclipse. The Moon, Earth, and Sun were all in perfect alignment creating the amazing Blood Moon, a color that you can see there
on the surface. This is how it looked from the Los Angeles at the Griffith Observatory. And the full Blood Moon Eclipse was seen across North America
as well as South America. And if you missed it, the next total luna eclipse will be in 2029.
And finally tonight, for fans of the show Ted Lasso, and I can tell you there are plenty in my show you just needed to believe. Apple TV has
announced that the Emmy-winning comedy is coming back for a fourth season. This news comes almost two years after the season three finale aired. Jason
Sudeikis will be back as Ted Lasso. Brendan Hunt and Brett Goldstein will also return as executive producer and writer. No word yet if they'll
reprise the character of Coach Beard and Roy Kent. A release date has not yet been announced.
That does it for me for tonight and for this week. What a busy week we have had. Thank you very much for your company. Do stay right here. "NEWSROOM"
with Max Foster is up next
END
