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Isa Soares Tonight
U.S. Federal Reserve Leaves Key Rate Unchanged As Expected; Trump Describes Phone Call with Zelenskyy As "Very Good"; Ben and Jerry's Says CEO Fired Over Brand's Political Activism. Aired 14-14:30p ET
Aired March 19, 2025 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00]
ISA SOARES, HOST, ISA SOARES TONIGHT: Hello, and a very warm welcome, I'm Isa Soares. Tonight, we begin with breaking news from the Federal Reserve.
Paula Newton joins me live from New York. And Paula, I know you're keeping a close eye on the Fed statement that from what I understand, it is widely
expected the Fed to leave its rates unchanged. What has been the decision if we have one so far? I'm looking also --
PAULA NEWTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So, we do have one on the fact that they will leave the key rate steady at 4 point. It's a range between 4.25 and
4.5 percent. But what we are waiting for, Isa, is more of a forecast for what's to come and why? Because this is one of those situations that the
Fed does not find itself in often.
But there is so much uncertainty surrounding the trade war. So, what's going to happen is we're going to get a dot plot. We should get it in a few
minutes here. We don't need to walk out on it yet. Isa, although you and I are used to that. What is it?
SOARES: Well, I love a good dot plot --
NEWTON: So, the point is, it's basically plotting where each -- the best guess of each Fed official and what they think the economy will do. They'll
be looking at things like growth, inflation, unemployment, and how many rate cuts they predict or they would like to see for 2025. Now, you'll
forgive me here because I'm waiting to see if that dot plot has come in.
In the meantime, I will tell you that in terms of making a guess here, we've talked so much, right, Isa, about the uncertainty of this Trump
administration and what they intend to do with tariffs. Everyone is looking to see what does the Fed know in terms of its own economic modeling? This
is not the first time that they've been through this.
You know, the Fed has dealt with tariffs before in the first Trump administration. And of course, those that were a holdover for the Biden
administration. But when you look at the fact that, as we've pointed out there, there are already tariffs in play, more to come April 2nd. What do
they see in the -- in the economy?
Do they see a weakening of the economy or do they see a pretty robust economy still, but perhaps with some hiccups with inflation or
unemployment? I don't have to tell you. In fact, as well, the unemployment rate has been quite steady, and yet, we have heard so much about layoffs in
the federal government here and beyond.
I am just going to refresh here to see if I can find the dot plot. So, slightly, fewer rates, I believe, is what we're looking at. Submitted the
projections. Yes, so, here's the thing, Isa. The bottom line is they're hedging and they're --
SOARES: Yes --
NEWTON: Hedging quite a bit. What does this mean? It means that they themselves do not know exactly what the effect of those tariffs will be.
And remember that if the tariffs have that effect of really bringing down growth, not just in the United States, but elsewhere, that, that means they
do have more room to actually loosen up on those rates.
Right now, there is a slightly less of a prediction for two-rate cuts in 2025. The word on the street, Isa, which I know you're used to hearing, is
higher for longer. Remember that if we went back to the early 2024, they expected in 2025 to have more cuts in terms of the Fed to have lower
interest rates, that doesn't look like it's going to happen.
I would see -- say in my judgment right now, Isa, that the Fed is basically in the position as everyone else, waiting to see exactly what comes through
on April 2nd, and what impact that will have on global growth. We know the OECD --
SOARES: Yes --
NEWTON: Fitch ratings have already cut global growth rates, and in fact, Fitch had actually cut it quite substantially as well for U.S. growth. So,
that is what the Fed is seeing so far. We will wait to see what more content we get at 2:30, Isa, and that is when the Fed chair will speak and
have his press conference.
SOARES: And I find, Paula, that when Jerome Powell speaks, when especially the questions part, I have no doubt that he will be peppered with questions
about exactly that. What impact, if any, so far we're seeing from this trade war, from these layoffs. And I'm looking at the Fed Reserve website.
And one line sticks out to me, uncertainty around the economic outlook has increased -- got -- went on to say the committee were carefully assessing
coming data, the evolving outlook and the balance of risks.
As I'm talking, I'm looking at the Dow. I'm just going to ask, Kate, my producer, to bring that up. Can we bring up the Dow -- just to keep an eye
on that seems to be pretty steady from what I can see in the corner of my eye. Paula.
NEWTON: It is steady. I wouldn't expect it to stay that way. Although --
SOARES: Yes --
NEWTON: There is some type of a bounce. I think the main problem here is the fact that the Federal Reserve, in backing off a little bit here and
hedging, is predicting slower growth and is predicting a little bit higher inflation.
[14:05:00]
And that is the issue right now. Markets will parse that, and of course, we will get more at 2:30.
SOARES: Thank you very much, Paula. As always, appreciate. In about 30 minutes, like Paula said, we will of course hear from Fed Chair Jay Powell.
Plus, Paula will be speaking with Loretta Mester, former CEO and President of the Federal Reserve Bank of Cleveland. So, be sure for that, QUEST MEANS
BUSINESS for that interview and much more, of course, on the Fed's latest rate decision.
And those fears that we've been hearing about a possible recession. Even President Trump, of course, didn't rule that out. Now, we return to some of
the other news we are following less than one month since that shouting match if you remember in the Oval Office. Donald Trump now says he had,
quote, "a very good call with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy."
President Trump says he talked with his counterpart for about an hour and claims efforts towards negotiating a ceasefire are, quote, "very much on
track." Just one day earlier, the U.S. President spent twice as much time on the phone with Russian President Vladimir Putin. Here's what the White
House Press Secretary is saying about these phone calls. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The leaders agreed Ukraine and America will continue working together to bring about a real end to the
war, and that lasting peace under President Trump's leadership can be achieved. President Trump fully briefed President Zelenskyy on his
conversation with Putin and the key issues discussed.
They reviewed the situation in Kursk and agreed to share information closely between their defense staffs as the battlefield situation evolved.
The two leaders also agreed on a partial ceasefire against energy. Technical teams will meet in Saudi Arabia in the coming days to discuss
broadening the ceasefire to the Black Sea on the way to a full ceasefire.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Well, this moment comes as Ukraine accuses Russia of launching an attack with about 150 drones overnight, inflicting damage on energy
facilities. Moscow claims Kyiv attacked Russian territory just hours after Mr. Putin and Mr. Trump agreed to a temporary halt attacks -- to temporary
halt attacks, pardon me, on energy infrastructure.
We brought that breaking news to you this time last night. Let's discuss with our chief national security correspondent, Alex Marquardt who is live
in Washington, who broke the news here this time yesterday. So, Alex, 24 hours later, are we getting any more clarity here on what has come out of
this call with President Trump-President Zelenskyy.
I saw Zelenskyy called it a positive conversation, and they discussed security guarantees. Any site or any -- do you know any more about what
those could be?
ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, Isa, Zelenskyy here being agreeable, being positive, which I think is where he
needs to be in order to get --
SOARES: Yes --
MARQUARDT: This relationship back on track. Two weeks after that disastrous Oval Office meeting. Essentially, Zelenskyy is saying, I agree
with everything that President Trump has said, we're going to work on this. He talks about working together with America, with President Trump, and
under American leadership, lasting peace can be achieved.
I think there's a very specific detail that we need to zero in on where the Ukrainians and the Americans have said that this narrow ceasefire,
remember, this is not a broad, full ceasefire, but this narrow ceasefire is about energy and infrastructure. While the Russians are just saying it's
just energy infrastructure.
And we have seen those attacks that you mentioned, hitting things like hospitals in Sumy, in the eastern part of the country, hitting railway
infrastructure and other civilian parts of the country. And so, I think we really need to be pressing all of the parties about what exactly is going
on in this -- in this narrow ceasefire.
The progress that has been made today, Isa, is that all sides appear to be set on another round of talks, not at the top level like we've seen with
the Foreign Ministers and Secretaries of State and national security advisors. But at the technical level, technical teams. So, those are
experts who really know their field.
These are supposed to take place in Saudi Arabia in the coming days. President Zelenskyy said that he will be sending a team, but again, to re-
emphasize that this is the narrower plan than the Trump team had wanted. This does not encompass the Black Sea, which Ukraine had proposed. This
does not encompass the entire frontline, which is something that the U.S. had proposed just last week.
So, the goal now is to get those technical teams to agree on some of the details and then get to a ceasefire so that then finally the peace deal can
be discussed. And that's where things are going to get really complicated. President Putin, in his statement after the call yesterday, talking about
how he doesn't want to see Ukraine re-armed, mobilizing more forces, having foreign military aid, Intelligence support. Of course, President Trump --
President Putin rather, Isa, trying to keep Ukraine in as weak a position as possible.
SOARES: Alex Marquardt there with the very latest. Thank you very much. So, let's get some clarity if we can get some from our Fred Pleitgen,
because overnight attacks between Russia and Ukraine could be a sign there's still a long road ahead here before any peace deal can be reached.
And Fred, we heard from Dmitry Peskov today who said the Kremlin views Ukraine strikes on energy infrastructure as an attempt to sabotage
agreement. Just break it up for our viewers. I mean, Alex was saying to me that just now that there's some -- there's a difference of opinion here in
terms of what came out of this -- of these talks between Trump and Putin and now Zelenskyy.
[14:10:00]
How does the Kremlin interpret what came out of that call?
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know what? That was actually a pretty testy subject today on that conference
call with journalists that Dmitry Peskov had. And it was exactly about that, the difference between what the White House was saying and what the
Kremlin was saying after that call took place between President Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin, where afterwards, the White House are
saying -- is saying that they believe this sort of moratorium, if you will, on strikes on infrastructure, that, that encompasses both energy and also
regular infrastructure, and that no strikes should be conducted on that, whereas the Russians are saying that all this means only energy
infrastructure.
And then when asked about this, the spokesman for the Kremlin said, look, I am the spokesman for the Kremlin, for the Russian President. And so, it
seems as though the Russians are sticking with their line that they are saying any sort of halt or temporary halt, 30 days is what we're talking
about right now, only means on energy infrastructure.
And of course, as both you and Alex have mentioned, both sides already accusing each other of working against the sense and the spirit, if you
will, of trying to make that happen with those strikes that happened overnight. The Ukrainians, of course, saying that dozens of drones were
once again launched from Russian territory towards Ukrainian infrastructure, also energy infrastructure as well.
Whereas the Russians are saying that three fixed-wing drones, which the Ukrainians have been using over the past, I would say a year-and-a-half or
so --
(CLEARS THROAT)
PLEITGEN: Were launched towards an oil installation in the southwest of Russia. So, already there, we can see some sort of cracks as the Trump
administration is trying to get a broader ceasefire on track. Nevertheless, the Russians today saying that they also believe that the call between
Vladimir Putin and Donald Trump was very good, Vladimir Putin getting a lot of praise here in Russia for, as they put it, standing up for the Russian
point of view on all of this.
And I think that some of the sticking points that Alex mentioned certainly are ones that are really playing big here in Russian media and in Russian
politics as well. When it comes to, for instance, the question of NATO forces or any sort of forces on the ground in Ukraine, but especially what
Alex was talking about, re-arming Ukraine, where the Russians have said that to them, it's fundamental that no more western gear gets brought to
the Ukrainians.
Of course, that would seriously, if not completely, hamper Ukraine's defensive efforts if the fighting were to continue. But right now, Isa, the
Kremlin certainly believes that it has the initiative on the battlefield. Vladimir Putin once again today said that he believes that Russian forces
are very close to ousting the Ukrainians from the Kursk region as well. So, right now, the Russians seem in no rush, if you will, to make a complete
ceasefire happen. Isa.
SOARES: Fred Pleitgen there with the very latest from Moscow this hour. Thanks very much, Fred. Well, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy was
in Finland today to meet top leadership as well as defense officials and to discuss security and strengthening ties as you can see there. Finnish
Foreign Minister Elina Valtonen was in those meetings, she joins me now from Helsinki. Minister, great to have you back on the show. We heard
President --
ELINA VALTONEN, FOREIGN MINISTER, FINLAND: Thank you --
SOARES: Zelenskyy today alongside your President, President Stubb, saying that Russians are ready to finish the war, adding that Putin's words are
not enough, especially, of course, when you see what our Alex Marquardt was just talking about, those attacks overnight on Ukraine. Are you surprised
at all, Minister, that Putin couldn't agree on an immediate 30-day ceasefire, which was initially agreed to -- very quickly agreed by Ukraine
on sea, land and air?
VALTONEN: Well, thanks, Isa. Good to be back. Well, I must say, it's not a massive surprise. What has become so clear over the -- over the course of
the past days is that, well, Trump wants peace, Europe wants peace, Ukraine wants peace, and there's only one missing, that's Putin.
And now that he comes back with his proposal a week after a full and unconditional ceasefire was proposed that he wants to limit that to only
energy infrastructure, that just shows that he has not let go of his Maximalist goals, and he only wants to be cherry-picking, essentially.
SOARES: I wonder what you make then of, you know, not only like you said, did it take him long to come to the table with something, but he came with
a ceasefire on energy infrastructure. I wonder how you read that. What kind of win -- is that a win at all, diplomatically.
VALTONEN: Well, a partial ceasefire is, of course, better than nothing. And I'm sure the Ukrainians are also happy to agree to that. And that's --
SOARES: Yes --
VALTONEN: Certainly what we have heard from President Zelenskyy. The thing is that it's only Russia who is bombing hospitals, right? And it's only
Russia who is trying to advance in a neighboring country, and who started this invasion in the first place.
[14:15:00]
So, therefore, of course, going forward, it is extremely important that it's essentially Russia who is starting to make those concessions, because
out of these three gentlemen, Trump, Zelenskyy and Putin, it's only Putin who can effectively end the war today if he -- if he wanted to.
SOARES: Well, certainly, his words are at odds with reality as President Zelenskyy said, as we look at some of the footage of those attacks
overnight, as you were just talking, Minister. Let me put this to you. The former British Prime Minister Boris Johnson said on X, I'm going to read it
out. "What a surprise. Putin rejects an unconditional ceasefire.
He wants to keep bombing and killing innocent Ukrainians. He wants Ukraine disarmed. He wants Ukraine neutralized. He wants to make Ukraine a vassal
state of Russia. He isn't negotiating. He's laughing at us." Is President Putin playing President Trump here?
VALTONEN: I think this genuine will by President Trump to really put an end to the killing that is so appreciated, I guess, around the world, and
certainly here in Europe and by the Ukrainians. That is -- partly being misused now by Putin, who only wants to proceed based on his conditions and
based on something which apparently is his playbook or has been his playbook all along, where -- whereby he doesn't have to compromise
essentially at all.
And at this stage we are not even talking about negotiation. This would be just a ceasefire. A temporary 30-day ceasefire during which some
negotiations could be started or even -- not even that, you know, early talks during which also the parties could agree on issues such as -- such
as getting back those deported children that Russia has illegally taken from Ukrainian families.
SOARES: You know, I wonder then, Minister, you and I have spoken before. I wonder what the mood was like -- you were in that room alongside your
President, but also alongside President Zelenskyy. What was -- what was the mood like as we got a sense of what President Putin is seeking very much
continue with his Maximalist demands.
VALTONEN: Well, you see, the mood today in Helsinki was actually pretty good because, well, first of all, what is so important is that the
coalition of the willing is now forming. Europe is ramping up its defense and deterrence, aid to Ukraine is continuing. Also, the U.S. is on board
whereas the reaction from Putin was no surprise. To be honest, that was more or less expected.
So, I guess we are back to square one unless otherwise proven. And of course, the talks will continue and the weekend will be another step,
hopefully forward with the Russians, and certainly, President Trump is putting all his effort into this, which we appreciate. But at the same
time, the strategy which we have had over the course of the past three years, aiding Ukraine, weakening Russia through sanctions and also ramping
up defense and deterrence in Europe, this is exactly the right strategy.
SOARES: And I'm sure Europe will continue pressing, of course, as those conversations, those talks are held in Saudi Arabia -- in the last, what?
Forty five minutes or so, we heard from the White House saying -- press person saying we have never been this close to peace. We'll see where that
takes us. Foreign Minister, always great to have you on the show. Thank you very much.
VALTONEN: Thank you so much, Isa.
SOARES: Thank you. And still to come tonight, another twist in legal challenges concerning U.S. deportation flights to El Salvador. Plus, this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(CROWD WAVING TURKISH FLAG IN PROTEST)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Is Turkey sliding into a fully authoritarian regime? Protesters are voicing their anger after police detain a key rival to President
Erdogan. We'll talk to an expert just ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:20:00]
SOARES: A U.S. federal judge has given the Justice Department another day to turn over information about the Trump administration's deportation
flights over the weekend or invoke the so-called state secrets privilege. Hundreds of alleged gang members were flown from the U.S. to El Salvador
after the White House used the war-time Alien Enemies Act.
It's used the act to rapidly deport migrants without due process under immigration law. The Justice Department is now trying to delay releasing
flight information, and said the judge is, quote, "continuing to beat a dead horse". The White House Press Secretary last hour said judges will not
deter administration efforts to remove migrants from the U.S. This is what she said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEAVITT: Americans can absolutely expect to see the continuation of the mass deportation campaign that has been successfully led by this President.
The judges in this country are acting erroneously. We have judges who are acting as partisan activists from the bench. They are trying to dictate
policy from the President of the United States. They are trying to clearly slow-walk this administration's agenda. And it's unacceptable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Well, CNN crime and justice correspondent Katelyn Polantz joins us now from Washington. And, Katelyn, just explain to us why extend the
deadline and what happens if they don't meet that deadline?
KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN CRIME & JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, if they don't meet the deadline, they won't be following court orders. But they have a
couple options that the judge is giving them now, because the Justice Department, in a filing earlier today, they escalated things. They
basically said to the judge, step off, don't micro-manage us.
We think the President has authority here, and we don't think you have authority here. That's one of the legal arguments that's being made. It's
quite strident. It's actually quite surprising to read because judges' order things like this all of the time for parties to submit to the court
basic facts and information.
But Judge Jeb Boasberg of the federal court in Washington, he toned it down and said after they made this filing from the Justice Department today, not
wanting to give more details about this, these flights, the judge said, OK, I'll give you 24 more hours to think about what you want to do. If you want
to submit to me under seal information, you can, or if you can make some sort of finding that there are state secrets here that you don't want to
submit to court, that's OK, too.
This is a judge with experience in Intelligence matters. He has presided over the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court before, so, he's treading
carefully as this big fight seems to keep heating up and then getting people backing down. But at the end of the day, the question is going to
be, will the Justice Department, will the Trump administration follow court orders, or do they want to intentionally defy a court? Here's Donald Trump
on "Fox News" last night talking about this dynamic in particular.
[14:25:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don't know who the judge is, but he's radical left. He was Obama-appointed, and he actually said we
shouldn't be able to take criminals, killers, murderers, horrible -- the worst people, gang members, gang leaders that we shouldn't be allowed to
take them out of our country.
Well, that's a presidential job. That's not for a local judge to be making that determination.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But going forward --
TRUMP: I had judges --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Would you -- would you defy a court order?
TRUMP: That were so corrupt.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is that -- we all know that --
TRUMP: No, I never did --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That was --
TRUMP: I never did defy a court order.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And you wouldn't in the future?
TRUMP: No, you can't do that. However, we have bad judges. We have very bad judges.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
POLANTZ: So, there's the President of the United States trying to assert his power, publicly attacking a judge, publicly, something that has gotten
pushback even from the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court in the last 24 hours. And at the same time, there are legal arguments being made that take
a hint of what Trump is saying and try to turn it into a legal argument itself. Back to you --
SOARES: Katelyn, appreciate it. Thank you very much. I know you'll stay across this very much developing story out of the United States. I want to
stay in the U.S because detained Palestinian activist Mahmoud Khalil has declared himself a political prisoner. In a new letter released by the
Institute of Middle East, understanding, Khalil describes the conditions around his arrest and detainment.
Adding that on the first night he was made to sleep on the floor without a blanket, despite requests. Khalil is a green card holder and a Columbia
University graduate. The Trump administration is trying to deport for his role in pro-Palestinian demonstrations last year. He is currently being
held in an ICE facility in Louisiana, where he describes witnessing, quote, "the quiet injustices".
An ice cream maker, Ben & Jerry's, is accusing its parent company, Unilever, of sacking the brand's CEO for his progressive views. Ben &
Jerry's says CEO David Stever was fired for defending the company's social activism and brand integrity, rather than concerns over his job
performance. And it comes amid an increasingly ugly row between the ice cream maker and Unilever, with Ben and Jerry's accusing Unilever of
attempting to silence it on controversial topics like abortion, climate change and universal health care.
And still to come tonight, protesters unite in anger on the streets of Istanbul after authorities in Turkey detain a strong rival to President
Erdogan. We'll have the details and analysis, of course, just ahead. Plus, thousands take to the streets in Israel, their message to Prime Minister
Benjamin Netanyahu, stop the renewed military offensive in Gaza immediately. But is he listening? That question next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:30:00]
ISA SOARES, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Welcome back, everyone. Police in Turkey have detained President Recep Tayyip Erdogan's strongest rival on
corruption and terrorism charges. Istanbul's mayor, Ekrem Imamoglu, was expected to be chosen as the opposition party's presidential candidate this
week. Experts say the move is aimed at removing all possible contenders ahead of the next presidential election.
Hundreds of protesters, as you can see, they have vented their anger in Istanbul earlier, chanting their support for the mayor. Let's get more on
the political situation in Turkey and a wider conversation I think we need to have right now. I want to bring in Ruth Ben-Ghiat, she's a history
professor at New York University and also the author of "Strongmen: Mussolini to the President." She joins us now live from New York.
Timely conversation, Ruth. Great to have you on the show. Let me first start on -- in Turkey. Of course, Ekrem Imamoglu saying, quote, "We are
facing great tyranny. We're up against a huge bullying," he said. And Germany -- I thought it was interesting. Germany's government called this a
serious setback for democracy. You write, these are tricks desperate autocrats engage in to gain the electoral system so they can stay in power.
Is this an act of desperation or weakness by Erdogan, you think?
RUTH BEN-GHIAT, HISTORY PROFESSOR, NEW YORK UNIVERSITY: That's how I see it. Erdogan is on the defensive. His party, his coalition had severe losses
in local elections. He's scheduled -- you know, he's allowed to stay in power till 2028, but there are calls for early elections and Imamoglu's
party ha was supposed to meet on Sunday and he's very popular in Turkey and he's been in a thorn in the side of Erdogan since he, unexpectedly to
Erdogan, won the mayor position in Istanbul.
And Erdogan has tried all kinds of dictator tricks to make it impossible for Imamoglu to run for office because he fears that he would be beaten by
Imamoglu if you had a free and fair election.
SOARES: But if you are Erdogan right now -- and I just really want to branch this out through what we are seeing right around the world, you're a
perfect voice for this, you know, why would you buckle right now? Because you have the international rules-based order being torn to shreds by other
leaders, and so many of them, really, quite frankly, getting away with it. You know, you have Putin attacking a democratic country, getting a
ceasefire deal loosely with preconditions. You have Netanyahu of Israel wanted by the ICC returning to war after agreed to a ceasefire deal. And
then, you have a President Trump, really, attacking federal agencies, abandoning alliances, closing up to autocrats.
I mean, is this -- is what we're seeing right now, is -- are we seeing the rise of the autocrat? Just tie it to your book here.
BEN-GHIAT: It's -- it -- definitely, we're seeing an empowerment. You know, autocrats feel empowered to do things that they weren't going to do
before. Because if we think about the Turkey, and Turkey is a case study in this. You know, today, there are one party states in China and North Korea,
but you have something called electoral autocracy, where you keep elections going, but you try and game the system so that you stay in power.
Then in Turkey, the judiciary is entirely compromised and politicized, and so is the military. So, elections are the only democratic institution
that's left. And Erdogan has done other things most recently, ridiculously trying to nullify Imamoglu's university diploma to say he couldn't run for
office.
[14:35:00]
And so, now you see he feels emboldened to actually arrest Imamoglu who, again, is very popular and that's why there are demonstrations. And this
has to be related to the world order, which now -- you know, with -- especially with America, the superpower, becoming autocratic, you're going
to see more of this in the future.
SOARES: And as you are speaking, we are seeing these live pictures. Can bring them up? Live from Istanbul where people really continuing to take to
the streets in protest of really detention. I think it's -- if we have the wider shot, we can show viewers that.
But, you know, I really want to widen the conversation if I can, because we were talking just a few minutes ago with a correspondent in the U.S. about
what we are seeing just in the last 24 hours. I'm sure you saw a federal has blocked unelected billionaire Elon Musk and DOGE from taking any more
steps to shut down USAID, saying it violates U.S. Constitution. And what we have seen until then -- until now, I should say, is really a rapid kind of
dismantling of this and other agency.
You say we are living through a moral collapse in America. And I want to read this part to our viewers from what you write. Authoritarians try to
normalize extreme actions through states of emergency exception. Yet, as a Chilean victim of state torture during the Augusta Pinochet dictatorship
told me, states of exception can be normalized in people too. Moral collapse begins as an individual process and when the conditions are right,
generates new collective norms of behavior that can support large scale- repression.
Why then -- going back to this point, why do you think we are seeing these autocrats being emboldened? What's emboldening them?
BEN-GHIAT: I think as each autocrat looks to see what the others are getting away with. And the failure to stop Vladimir Putin in Ukraine early
on, when that could have been possible because of the evident, you know, corruption in the Russian military, underperformance that's even now led
them to use North Korean soldiers, this gave the message to other autocrats. For example, China is now ramped up its imperialist aspirations
with Taiwan.
And so, what's at stake and now the U.S. is the biggest front here and things are proceeding very quickly in the U.S. In fact, more quickly than
when most autocrats come in, the speed of the transformations in the U.S. resembles after a coup is so fast.
And so, this -- what's at stake is the whole democratic international order, which is why the Trump administration is going after soft power of
the U.S. all over the world. And so, we're seeing this environment where there's an attempt to change the international order and the alliance
system very quickly.
SOARES: If that then is the case, let me ask you, put to you the same question I asked, really, Maria Ressa, the Nobel Peace Prize winner, just
last week on the show, why aren't Americans screaming from the rooftops?
BEN-GHIAT: Yes. We're seeing a lot of localized protests. And it's not being covered by the U.S. media as such. We're not seeing mass nonviolent
protest yet. I think that there's a good chance that will come once Americans realize the economic outcomes in their daily lives of the
Trump/Musk administration.
I do want to say we have a very unusual situation, which is difficult for some people to grasp because we have a power sharing arrangement between an
elected President Trump and an unelected, the richest man in the world, who is paralyzing government and behaving in ways that resemble coup actions.
So, this is very, very complicated to oppose.
SOARES: Ruth, really appreciate it. Thank you very much. I'm going to leave it here because we were talking about how that's impacting Americans.
Let's go listen to Jay Powell, the Fed Chair.
JEROME POWELL, U.S. FEDERAL RESERVE CHAIR: -- to say about that, as I've mentioned it can be the case that it's appropriate sometimes to look
through inflation if it's going to go away quickly without action by us if it's transitory. And that can be the case in the case of tariff inflation.
I think that would depend on the tariff inflation moving through fairly quickly and it would depend critically as well on inflation expectations
being well anchored -- longer-term inflation expectations being well anchored.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I guess I'm looking at the obvious here and the fact that the policy path doesn't change at all and inflation is unchanged
in the out years also. Doesn't that imply you all have basically decided that there is no signal here and that it's just going to -- we're back to
transitory again?
[14:40:00]
POWELL: So, I think that's kind of the base case. But as I've said, it's - - we really can't know that. We're going to have to see how things actually work out. And the fact that there wasn't much change, I think that's partly
because, you know, you see, weaker growth, but higher inflation they kind of offset.
And also, frankly, a little bit of inertia when it comes to changing something in this highly uncertain environment. You know, you're -- you
know, I think there is a level of inertia where you just say, maybe I'll stay where I am.
COLBY SMITH, THE NEW YORK TIMES: Thank you. Colby Smith with the New York Times. You just described inflation expectations as well anchored, but has
your confidence in that assessment changed at all given the increase in certain measures and the high degree of uncertainty expressed by
businesses, households, and forecasters?
POWELL: So, on inflation expectations, of course, we do monitor inflation expectations very, very carefully. Basically, every source we can find and,
you know, short-term, long-term, households, businesses, forecasters, market based. And I think the picture broadly is this. You do see increases
widely in short-term inflation expectations.
And people who fill out surveys and answer, you know, questionnaires are pointing to tariffs about that. If you look in the survey world, if you
look a little further out, you really don't see much in the way of an increase. Longer-term inflation expectations are mostly well anchored. If
you look at the New York, for example.
Then you have market-based, and it's the same pattern. You know, people and markets are pricing in in break evens, some higher inflation over the next
year, must be related to tariffs we know from the surveys. But if you look out five years or the five-year, five-year forward, you'll see that break
evens have -- are either flat or actually slightly down in the case of the longer-term one.
So, we look at that and we will be watching all of it very, very carefully. We do not take anything for granted. It's at the very heart of our
framework, angered inflation expectations, but what -- that's what you see right now.
SMITH: And how much weight do you put on the deterioration in consumer confidence surveys? You said recently that this is perhaps not the best
indication of future spending. But I'm curious, you know, what you think is behind this deterioration and to what extent it could be a leading
indicator for hard data?
POWELL: So, let's start with the hard data. You know, we do see pretty solid hard data still. So, growth looks like it's maybe moderating a bit,
consumer spending moderating a bit, but still at a solid pace. Unemployment's 4.1 percent. Job creation, most recently, has been at a
healthy level.
Inflation has started to move up now, we think partly in response to tariffs, and there may be a delay in further progress over the course of
this year. So, that's the hard data. Overall, it's a solid picture.
The survey data, both household and businesses, show significant rise in uncertainty and significant concerns about downside risk. So, how do we
think about that? And that's -- that is the question. As I mentioned the other day, as you pointed out, the relationship between survey data and
actual economic activity hasn't been very tight. There have been plenty of times where people are saying very downbeat things about the economy and
then going out and buying a new car. But we don't know that that will be the case here.
We will be watching very carefully for signs of weakness in the real data. Of course, we will. But I -- you know, given where we are, we think our
policy is in a good place to react to what comes and we think that the right thing to do is to wait here for great, for -- you know, for greater
clarity about what the economy's doing.
NICK TIMIRAOS, THE WALL STREET JOURNAL: Nick Timiraos of the Wall Street Journal. Chair Powell, Chair Greenspan wants to find price stability as an
environment in which inflation is so low and stable over time, that it doesn't materially enter into the decisions of households and firms. Can
you say that today that we have that price stability, that households and businesses are ignoring price growth, when you see buy in advance,
psychology, big changes in inventories, and surveys that show consumers, at least in the short run, expect higher inflation?
POWELL: So, I do like that definition a lot. In fact, I used it at the recent conference where I spoke. So, I think a world where people can make
their daily economic decisions in businesses and they're not having to think about the possibility of significantly high inflation. We know
inflation will bounce around. That's -- that is price stability.
You know, I think we were getting --
SOARES: You've been listening there to Fed Chair Jay Powell who, at the top of the hour, if you were joining us then, held interest rates pretty
steady as the Central Bank, as we heard there from Jay Powell, tries to weigh up -- weigh the impact of President Trump's aggressive, I think it's
fair to say, economic policies, be it the trade war that we have seen where we've seen the markets really very volatile reacting to that, or, of
course, the federal agency cuts that we have seen under DOGE.
What we heard from Jay Powell, the policies are in a good place, but they are waiting. They're going to wait for great greater clarity. So, that
seems to be the case. Inflation is unchanged. But what we have heard, and we did see at the statement at the top of the hour, there's a higher degree
of uncertainty, but clearing -- clearly waiting for more signs of the impact this will have on the U.S. economy.
They did forecast though -- and we saw that in the dot plot, forecast two rate cuts this year. We'll continue listening. If there's any more lines
from Jay Powell, we'll, of course, bring it to you. Also keeping an eye on the Dow, and it's up eight-tenths of a percent. We're going to take a short
break. We'll be back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: Israel says it has recaptured part of a key corridor in Gaza as part of its newly launched military offensive. It's the first time Israel
has used ground troops since the ceasefire ended. The IDF says it began targeted ground activities in order to create what it calls a partial
buffer between Northern and Southern Gaza.
Palestinian officials say at least 15 people were killed overnight in Gaza. One day after more than 400 died in just a wave of attacks. A U.N. official
says an aid worker was killed after an explosion at its U.N. guest house. The IDF denies any involvement.
And amid the shattered ceasefire, massive protests targeting Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. Some demonstrators accusing Mr. Netanyahu of
using airstrikes to once again delay testifying his corruption trial in an effort to remain power.
I want to go straight to Jerusalem and our diplomatic editor Nic Robertson. And, Nic, you know, clearly the fury is being felt on the streets there of
Jerusalem as people continue to take to the streets. Speak to the mood right now.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, there's a lot of people coming out today. A lot of people that could have joined them stayed
at home. That was what one protest organizer told me. He said, for every person you see out here, there are another 10 sitting at home. So, although
the war restarting in Gaza is a galvanizing moment, and although people are coming out for a multitude of reasons, the numbers were an uptick over
what's been seen perhaps over recent weeks. However, they're not the biggest numbers.
[14:50:00]
But what's fascinating listening to people, you know, some of them were telling us that they'd come because the prime minister had restarted the
war again. One of the protests that we were at was outside the Knesset and there was a gathering sort of specifically there to challenge the prime
minister over his efforts to oust the Shin Bet chief, the internal security chief, Ronen Bar. There's a lot of pushback against that.
And very interestingly, you know, some senior opposition figures from the Knesset came out into the crowd. Benny Gantz, former defense minister, now
a big opposition figure. They got roundly criticized, high octane anger from the crowd, frustrated with them as members of the Knesset that they
are not doing enough to stand up against Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.
So, a real sense of anger in the crowd, multiple reasons, could have been more people. But I think, you know, a lot of eyes focused on Gaza from that
crowd that we were at today because the hostages are there and they fear as the IDF begins to ramp up this ground incursion, the Netzarim Corridor, the
defense minister of Israel, Katz, laying out how what is coming is going to be worse than before. There's going to be no holding back.
And Israel -- Gazans told to take shelter in some of the more -- what have been described as a sort of safe zones. It really feels for a lot of people
in Gaza, like 2023 on the move again, 2024 on the move again. But these sort of counter narratives, the protests against the prime minister are
strong. But they're not pushing him out. And the government, the IDF's push against Hamas in Gaza has happened before. It's been strong, but it's not
pushed them back. So, it's sort of a moment now where it all takes off again what we've seen before.
SOARES: Nic Robertson for us there in Jerusalem. Very rainy and wet. Nic, I hope you and the team are well. Thank you very much. Nic Robertson there.
And still to come tonight, from urban foxes to roadside swans, we'll bring you the winning images of the British Wildlife Photography Awards. Do stay
tuned for some truly remarkable photos. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:55:00]
SOARES: It's a victory for animal rights activists in Mexico City and a triumph for Los Toros. A new measure passed on Tuesday bans the killing and
wounding of bulls in bullfights, aiming to make the events safer for animals as well as matadors alike. That means swords and other sharp
objects used in traditional bullfights are no longer allowed. The bill passed with 61 votes in favor and only one against. But bullfighting goes
back centuries in Mexico. Not everyone's happy about the changes. Some fans clashed with police, while others tried to force their way into a
government building.
And the winners of the British Wildlife Photography Awards are celebrating today with Britain's unique natural world taking the spotlight. Let me show
you some of the top prizes. And it goes, the top prize in bag goes to Simon Withyman, who photographed an urban fox for three years capturing her daily
routine, scavenging to feed her young family.
Meanwhile, a young British wildlife photographer of 2025 is a nine-year-old who clearly is not gaming, thank for that. Jamie Smart from Wales for her
beautiful image of a curlew bird amongst dandelions. It's beautiful. And in the 15 to 17 category, Ben Lucas impressed the judges with his snapshot of
pigeons on the high street, or as he calls them, the vultures of the streets. If you're in London, you know exactly what he's talking about.
That does it for us for tonight. Congratulations to all of them. Do stay right here. Newsroom with Max Foster is up next. Have a wonderful evening.
I shall see you tomorrow.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:00:00]
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