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Isa Soares Tonight
Hamas Says it Lost Contact with Militants Holding Edan Alexander; Hamas Studying Israeli Ceasefire Proposal; Trump's On-Again, Off-Again Tariffs; E.U. Lists U.S. Products That Could Get Tariffs; Elephants React to Earthquake in California. Aired 2:00-3p ET
Aired April 15, 2025 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00]
ISA SOARES, HOST, ISA SOARES TONIGHT: A very warm welcome to the show, everyone, I'm Isa Soares. Tonight, President Trump pushes the limits of his
power as he battles against the U.S. Supreme Court and academia. I speak to a Maryland congressman who called the Trump administration's actions
shameful.
Hamas says it's studying Israel's latest ceasefire proposal. But will this new framework for a 40-day truce be enough to bring both sides to the
table? My guest this hour doesn't think so. We get reaction from a former Israeli diplomat. Plus, the executive director of the U.N. office for
project services joins me live from Port Sudan.
As the United Nations warns, Sudan is worse off than ever before, calling it the world's largest humanitarian crisis. A very busy hour this evening,
we'll begin this hour with what could be shaping up to be a constitutional collision between the Trump administration and the Supreme Court.
President Donald Trump is ratcheting up his battle against institutions, courts, universities, the media and law firms. Today, in a Washington
hearing in the case of Kilmar Abrego Garcia, the man you're looking there on your screen, he is the Maryland man sent to a notorious mega prison in
El Salvador just last month despite his protected status.
So far, the Justice Department has defied a Supreme Court ruling that the administration must, quote, "facilitate his return". In another sign, Trump
officials are stepping up efforts to crack down on pro-Palestinian protesters, a Columbia University student was arrested on Monday at an
immigration office.
Mohsen Mahdawi is now being detained despite being a lawful, permanent U.S. resident for a decade. And the Trump administration is freezing more than
$2 billion in funding for Harvard University after the school rejected demands from federal officials to make policy changes on things like
admissions as well as curriculum.
Let's get a big picture view, really, from our senior politics senior reporter Stephen Collinson. There's a lot, Stephen, for us to get to. So,
let's just go through this and let me start off first with this continuing standoff that we are seeing between the White House and the judiciary that
is playing out, it's going to play out today in a courtroom in what relates to Abrego Garcia case.
What are we likely to see from this court case? Because administration really has been defined, the judge and has been defying the order.
STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN POLITICS SENIOR REPORTER: So, the administration is supposed to be providing the judge every single day with an update about
what it's doing to get Mr. Abrego Garcia back. So far, it has been providing the judge with reasons why it can't get him back.
And I think we're likely to see the judge pretty frustrated at that at some point in this case, I think it's going to come down to a choice of whether
the judge tries to hold members of the administration in contempt, and eventually it looks like the Supreme Court is going to get this case again,
as you say, told the administration to facilitate Mr. Abrego Garcia's return.
The administration is arguing that since he's in El Salvadorian prison, it doesn't have the power to do so, even though the President of El Salvador,
President Bukele was in the Oval Office with President Trump yesterday. So, I think this is going to get much more intense in the coming days.
SOARES: Indeed, and this is -- as you quite rightly point out, an example, Stephen, and President Trump pushing the limits of his power beyond
immigration, beyond tariffs, beyond academia. And you write this on cnn.com, "the White House's power move suggests it does not want to
unilaterally decide who gets deported based on its own criteria, not those of the courts."
It also wants to heavily influence the caseloads of big time law firms, what is taught in top universities, and the news Americans see on
television. These are classic pages from the playbooks of strongmen leaders like Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban. This very much paints a picture
of an autocratic leader, an autocratic government, but of a constitutional crisis also. Why aren't Americans, Stephen, screaming from the rooftops
about this?
COLLINSON: I think among more liberal Americans, there's a sense of shell- shock. I don't think necessarily all the dots have been connected about what this administration is trying to do. But the clear plan of the Trump
White House is to do so much so quickly that it's disorientating and people don't really understand.
[14:05:00]
I think if you look at places where democracy has ebbed, it isn't really clear that freedoms and things people took for granted have been taken away
until they see it in retrospect. Also, the remedy in the U.S. system for presidential overreach is the ballot box. We don't have midterm elections
until a year in November.
That's where Presidents are generally punished for perhaps going beyond their mandate. But at the same time, a lot of these things, attacks on
elite universities, trying to disarm the media, attacking what they regard as liberal judges. This is very popular among perhaps half of Americans, at
least the 40 percent who are generally seen to be in Trump's base.
So, it's not the case that this is universally opposed by many Americans. A lot of people on the right, including more traditional Republicans, have
been advocating this kind of thing to try and lessen liberal influence on institutions for a long time. I think where it's different with Trump is,
the intention is to curtail institutions that limit his power and hold up what he's doing to the light, like the courts and journalism. And I think
that is where the fear of creeping authoritarianism is at its most acute.
SOARES: Indeed, and we are seeing -- you mentioned academia. We are starting to see academia pretty much fighting back. Harvard University
refusing to make those key policy changes. And then President Trump and his administration, I should say, firing back, freezing over $2 billion I
think, $2 billion in multi-year grants and contracts.
Where are other universities on this? Well, are they also rebuking the White House demands, or are they sticking or they're sticking to what the
White House is demanding here?
COLLINSON: We haven't seen. Harvard was really the first and most important to dig in its heels. Columbia University made a series of
concessions to the administration, including on policing on its campuses, banning masks during demonstrations, even submitting to the administration,
putting its Middle East studies program into a kind of oversight.
That was heavily criticized by a number of Columbia graduates. There are some other big universities, Cornell, Stanford, for example, which have
been approached by the university -- by the administration, which has threatened to withhold federal funding, they are so far sort of looking to
try and find out exactly what the administration wants.
They have not strongly pushed back, although Stanford did come out today and expressed support for Harvard. I think Harvard being the most
prestigious university --
SOARES: Yes --
COLLINSON: And the oldest that could be a key moment.
SOARES: Stephen Collinson, appreciate that. Breaking it all down for us --
COLLINSON: Thanks --
SOARES: There's a lot for us to get through. Thank you, Stephen. Let's get more on this. Democratic Congressman Glenn Ivey is from the U.S. state of
Maryland, where Kilmar Abrego Garcia has made his home. And he joins us now. Congressman, welcome to the show, appreciate you taking the time to
speak to us.
Let me first get your reaction to both the narrative and the argument that this Trump administration has been making in what relates to Abrego
Garcia's case. I want to play congressman just what we heard from Stephen Miller yesterday, how he framed it. And I'll get reaction after that.
Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHEN MILLER, U.S. HOMELAND SECURITY ADVISER: This was a 9-0 --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In our favor.
MILLER: In our favor against the district court ruling, saying that no district court has the power to compel the foreign policy function of the
United States. As Pam said, the ruling solely stated that if this individual at El Salvador's sole discretion, was sent back to our country,
that we could deport him a second time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: So, congressman, Stephen Miller there, you know, framing it as a win. Your reaction?
REP. GLENN IVEY (D-MD): I guess he didn't go to law school. I mean, I think it's pretty clear that the Supreme Court was saying he deserves to
have a day in court. Now, he can't have his day in court in a -- in a prison in El Salvador. It's sort of, makes it impossible to get that done.
It's clear the Supreme Court contemplated him being brought back to the United States, and the district court judge, the lower court judge who's
handling this preliminarily has made that expressly clear.
So, they keep saying we can't take him until, you know, Bukele releases him. You know, we can't release him until we get -- all this stuff is
nonsense, and they know it. And I guess it points to the fact that they're afraid to actually have him brought back so that they have to present their
evidence in court before a judge.
SOARES: Yes --
IVEY: So, they've been making all sorts of character assassination statements. I think they're afraid to try and back them up.
SOARES: And on that, I mean, both -- and we heard that yesterday -- heard this yesterday, congressman, both President Trump and President Bukele
yesterday, gave the impression they were powerless to bring it back.
[14:10:00]
But reality is, if anyone can bring him, they could. So, why not correct that error? Why do you think they wouldn't want to do that?
IVEY: Well, I think that's right. I mean, you know, certainly, you know, the United States has people extradited back to the country --
SOARES: Yes --
IVEY: On a daily basis, and we send people out of the United States to other countries that have -- especially if there's a criminal case ongoing.
So, it's a routine procedure. They're acting like this is something extraordinary, but it really isn't. And on top of that, there's a
contractual arrangement, apparently, between the United States and El Salvador, where they housed these people.
I believe it's for $6 million. So, if you have a contract, you should be able to bring somebody back, that shouldn't be held there under the terms
of that agreement. So, I think the only reason they're -- you know, playing hide and go seek, basically, with the law is because they really don't have
the evidence to back up the statements that they've made to justify him being held.
SOARES: On that point of playing hide and seek with the law, how do you see then, the next legal challenge here? How do you -- how do you -- do you
think that the court will be able to push the administration to act correctly? Because at the moment, they are making their own interpretations
of the law.
IVEY: Yes, I think what's going to have to happen next is, you know, the district court, the sort of lowest level court is going to have to issue
some sort of explicit order that says, bring him back, apparently, the Trump administration will appeal that to the next level, which is the
fourth circuit. I look -- I think they'll affirm her lower court ruling just like they did the first time.
It will go up to the Supreme Court, and I think the Supreme Court is -- I don't want to say they're boxed in, but, you know, pretty clear that the
first order that they gave has been circumvented by the Trump administration.
SOARES: Yes --
IVEY: And I don't think there's really any reason for them to support what the Trump administration is doing. So, I expect them to say, we really mean
it. Bring it back, stop playing games, make it happen. And I'm hopeful that they'll do that this time around.
SOARES: And do you think this administration will do that or they will just delay tactic another way?
IVEY: We'll have to see. You know, you can't assume that these guys will follow the law unless there's no other option --
SOARES: Yes --
IVEY: Available to them, but hopefully, they will do it this time. We just have to keep fighting and pushing and make sure that the courts keep
pressing them on this until we back them into a corner.
SOARES: And I wonder, congressman, have you been able to speak to Abrego Garcia's family, to his wife, to his children? Give us a sense of how
they're doing.
IVEY: I mean, they're struggling, as you can imagine. You know, we had a chance, we had a press conference with them last week on Capitol Hill. And
you know, the wife is distraught, the mother-in-law is upset. I mean, everybody's really, you know, struggling with what's happening here, and
frankly, it's some level of disbelief.
I think most people don't realize that something like this could happen in the United States. But here we are. So, you know, I appreciate the fact
that the family is staying strong and continuing to fight. They've got attorneys that are helping them do it. The courts seem to be on that same
track, Congress certainly is as well, certainly congressional Democrats. So, we're hoping that the Trump administration really comes clear on the
error of their ways and cleans this up as fast as possible.
SOARES: Let me -- let me just get your thoughts. I was having a conversation with our Stephen Collinson, who was talking about all the
challenges that this administration is facing right now. But Adam Serwer at "The Atlantic", he writes this, congressman, he says "a constitutional
crisis is here." And he adds, "the crucial point here is that the administration's logic means that it could do the same to America's
citizens.
After all, if deporting someone under a protective order to a gulag without so much as a hearing is a foreign policy matter with which no court may
interfere, then the citizenship of the condemned person doesn't matter." Just give me your thoughts about the remarks, a really stunning remarks we
heard yesterday from President Trump about potentially deporting homegrown criminals. I mean, do you think this proposal is being seriously
considered?
IVEY: I mean, you never know with President Trump, but the statements were clearly offensive and clearly illegal. You know what they're sort of
contemplating doing would be well outside the parameters of the constitution. But that hasn't stopped him. They keep pressing the envelope,
they keep doing illegal things.
We haven't even talked about the students that have been whisked up and, you know --
SOARES: Yes --
IVEY: Put in detention, and they're trying to deport them as well, even though they actually have legal status to be in the United States. So, it's
not hard to imagine that they're planning other things along those lines if they're able to get away with this. So, that's all the more reason that we
have to keep fighting hard and pressing them in the courts to make sure that they're held accountable and that the rule of law continues to apply.
[14:15:00]
But I think we might need the public to start getting, you know, really sounding off on this stuff, maybe along the lines of what you saw in South
Korea a month or so ago, to really get the point across to the Trump administration that we believe in the rule of law here, and what you're
doing is un-American.
SOARES: On that point, I mean, I was just asking my colleague Stephen Collinson why people are not screaming from the rooftops exactly on that
point. Why do you think, congressman, the Americans haven't taken to the streets in protest, given what we are seeing?
IVEY: I think to some extent, there is some degree of disbelief about this. You know, this really can't be happening here. And, you know, I think
there's also a potential of overconfidence to sort of sense that, no matter what happens, you know, with respect to the Trump administration, our
democratic institutions are strong enough to resist them and survive them and overcome them.
But they're only as strong as the people make them be, I think at some level. We've got a great history, I think of some ways of an extended
democracy that can grow and expand, that ended slavery and ended up bringing African-Americans into the mainstream and women and others. But
those have been real fights at every step of the way.
This is going to be another one of those real fights. We're at a fork in the road, we've got to make sure it comes out the right way.
SOARES: Congressman, really appreciate the time you're taking to speak to us this evening. Thank you very much, sir.
IVEY: Thank you.
SOARES: And still to come tonight, satellite imagery shows a scorched earth policy after the RSF launches an attack on a famine-stricken camp in
Sudan. We speak to a United Nations executive director who is in the country. That is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: Well, in Sudan, the ongoing civil war has triggered one of the world's worst humanitarian catastrophes. The fighting between rival groups
has sparked what is now the world's largest displacement crisis. The U.N. Secretary General says almost 12 million people have been forced to flee
their homes, half of the population, some 25 million people, are acutely hungry.
Millions of children have been deprived of education and innocent civilians continue to pay the price as the conflict enters its third year.
[14:20:00]
Sudan's parliamentary Rapid Support Forces claim they've seized control of a huge camp for displaced people, forcing hundreds of thousands to flee.
Aid groups say the assault left hundreds dead, including humanitarian workers. Our Salma Abdelaziz has more for you.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): You are looking at images of a famine-stricken camp where families forced out of their home by war
were attacked by a militia accused of genocide.
(on camera): This video, verified and geolocated by CNN shows the Rapid Support Forces known as the RSF, attacking the sprawling Zamzam Camp in the
Darfur region of Sudan, forcing thousands of hungry and desperate people to flee for their lives. This is what we know right now. The RSF raided the
camp, killed dozens of people, set fire to tents and marketplaces, deliberately targeted health clinics and killed at least nine medical
workers, according to Relief International, an aid agency.
This satellite imagery shows that the RSF carried out a scorched earth policy across an area of 165 football fields. The RSF, which is seen here
celebrating, has denied targeting civilians. Now, Darfur, the region where this took place, is the epicenter of a genocide that was reignited when a
civil war broke out between the RSF and the Sudanese army.
That war is now entering its third year, and it has triggered what the U.N. calls the world's greatest humanitarian crisis. Once again, those with a
black or African tribal identity are being systematically hunted and killed by Arab militias like the RSF, in what has been determined to be a genocide
by the U.S. State Department.
And there is no end in sight to this conflict. Millions of people are unseen, battered, bruised, bombed and besieged, denied medical care and
basic services, while the warring factions only exacerbate the suffering. Salma Abdelaziz, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOARES: And we want to stay on this. Jorge Moreira da Silva is the Executive Director of the United Nations Office for Project Services. He's
live from Sudan as the country marks, as we said, two years of really what has been a truly and continues to be a truly devastating conflict. Mr.
Moreira da Silva, great to have you back on the show.
The U.N. today -- and you have addressed this as well, I saw in your statement, said that we are seeing in Sudan the largest humanitarian
crisis. And my colleague just pointed it out, largest displacement crisis, largest hunger crisis. You're on the ground, just paint us a picture,
realistic picture for our viewers around the world of what you have been seeing.
JORGE MOREIRA DA SILVA, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, UNITED NATIONS OFFICE FOR PROJECT SERVICES: Thank you for having me, Isa. Indeed, what we are seeing
in Sudan is the largest humanitarian crisis in the world, but not the crisis that is more visible and more often discussed --
SOARES: Yes --
DA SILVA: That's why it's important to go to the facts, to the figures. And as you mentioned in your opening, the forced displacement affecting 13
million people out of the population, which means 30 million people are in desperate need humanitarian support. It's just an illustration of the
situation that is happening.
So, it's fundamental that the international community provides all the support that is needed, and if we go to the figures, you can see that out
of the $4.2 billion that are needed in terms of humanitarian support, only 7 percent has been provided. So, it's important that at the same time that
we call for negotiations, for a dialogue, that all parties find a solution.
It's also important that we, the international community, provide all the humanitarian needs, but also preparing the rehabilitation and the
reconstruction --
SOARES: I think --
DA SILVA: IDP center, and I asked them what do you need back home? And they told me, we need mines, unexploded ordnance to be removed. We need
houses, we need schools, hospitals, and we need the basic services and infrastructures such as water, sanitation and electricity. So, it's
fundamental that the international community raise the bar rather than going down as we have seen recently.
With the decrease of the funding, it's important that we step in with faster, safer and independent aid. But it's also important that the
negotiations generate a good outcome.
SOARES: Yes, and look, the -- we have seen the relentless nature of this conflict, and really the impact this has had on infrastructure, like you
said, on sanitation.
[14:25:00]
But let's talk about the path to peace, because right now it feels kind of very far away, very fraught. I know the U.K. today is hosting ministers
from 20 countries in an attempt to try and restart this stalled peace talks. But Sudan has, and I know you probably don't want to go into the
politics of this, but it's important here at this moment.
Sudan has via the International Court of Justice, accused the UAE of arming the RSF. I know your role is humanitarian, not political, but with no
political process, this devastating conflict will just drag on. So, what is your message to these leaders meeting today in London?
DA SILVA: I think that there are two or three key messages. One is, let's not find an excuse on any political --
SOARES: Do we have him? Have we lost him? I really -- unfortunately, I really was hoping we would get the three points, not find an excuse on any
particular -- and I wanted to find the ending of that sentence. Unfortunately, he is live from Sudan for us, as you can imagine, the
connection not great, but we are incredibly grateful for Jorge Moreira da Silva to speak to us, take the time to speak to us.
A story that we will continue to focus on and like, and like he said, one that doesn't get that much attention given all the crises we are seeing so
around the world. Still to come though on the show, Israel has proposed a new ceasefire and hostage deal for the first time since restarting the war
in Gaza last month.
We'll see how it crosses some red lines drawn by Hamas. And then why Israel's ruling party is stepping up attacks on the head of Shin Bet, a
crucial security agency demanding his immediate removal. That is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:30:00]
ISA SOARES, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Welcome back everyone. The armed wing of Hamas has just announced that he has lost contact with the militants
holding the last living American hostage in Gaza. It says Israel's military bomb the location where Eden Alexander, dual U.S.-Israeli citizen, was
being held. CNN cannot independently confirm that claim.
Alexander though has been at the center of negotiations, aimed at a new ceasefire and hostage agreement. Hamas is now studying Israel's first
proposal since the war resumed last month.
Let's get more now from our Jeremy Diamond, who joins us in Tel Aviv. So, Jeremy, just talk us through what Hamas is claiming here.
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Well, Hamas says that it has lost contact with the militants who have been holding Edan Alexander
hostage for the last 18 months, or at least the militants who are currently believed to be holding him hostage. They did not provided the location of
where he was being held hostage or when the alleged Israeli bombardment took place that they say directly targeted the militants who have been
holding Edan Alexander.
And it is very important for us to note that we cannot independently confirm this claim by Hamas that they have lost contact with these
militants. The suggestion being that Edan Alexander may have been seriously injured or may no longer be alive as a result of this bombardment.
We have also reached out to the Israeli military and the Hostages and Missing Families Forum, who have not yet responded to our requests for
comment. It's important to note as well that the Al-Qassam Brigades, which is Hamas' militant wing, which released this statement, they have
previously lied about the fate of at least one Israeli hostage.
Back in November, they released images of an Israeli female hostage who they said at the time had been killed in Israeli bombardment. Her family
was able to identify her at the time as Daniella Gilboa. Gilboa was released during this last ceasefire agreement. And when she came out, she
told her family that she had been forced to stage that a photograph to effectively stage her own death through those images.
So, important to take these claims by Hamas with a grain of salt. Of course, there have been other times where their statements have been more
reliable on the fate of the hostages as well. So, certainly a lot of uncertainty at this moment and at a critical time in those negotiations.
SOARES: Indeed. On that, and I'm seeing that Hamas, over the weekend as well, released a propaganda video in which Alexander appeals directly to
Trump. Obviously, the three-minute video certainly film almost certainly under duress. But what impact -- put into context for us here, what impact
will this have on the ceasefire negotiations that Hamas studying?
DIAMOND: Well, listen, since this ceasefire broke down, following Israel's bombardment of Gaza last month, Edan Alexander has really been central to
every single proposal that has been put forward by the Americans, by the mediators in order to try and reach an agreement here between Israel and
Hamas. That's because Edan Alexander, while he is an Israeli soldier, he is also the last living American being held hostage by Hamas. There are the
bodies of four other American citizens also still being held by Hamas.
And this latest proposal that we have seen, which Hamas as of today, said that they were still studying would call for the release of 10 Israeli
hostages, with the first among them to be released would be Edan Alexander.
And so, obviously, these reports about uncertainty on his fate, again, being claimed by Hamas' Al-Qassam Brigades, certainly inject a lot of
uncertainty into those negotiations. But it's also very clear that while there is some momentum here in these negotiations, that Israel and Hamas
are still very far apart. One of the reasons, because in this Israeli proposal, which Hamas is now reviewing, it calls for Hamas to disarm, and a
senior Hamas official has told us that that is a non-starter for the group.
Now, I don't expect that to be a major sticking point when we're talking about a temporary 45-day ceasefire here, but certainly, it suggests that
there are still a lot of gaps to be bridged between these two sides. And while there is progress, we know, of course, how long this road can be
sometimes to getting to another deal.
SOARES: Indeed, Jeremy Diamond, as soon as you have any more details, appreciate it, on Edan Alexander do come back to us. Thank you.
And a bit of feud meantime is deepening between Mr. Netanyahu's right-wing government and the head of Israel's internal security agency.
[14:35:00]
Ministers are accusing Ronen Bar of turning the Shin Bet into a, quote, "private militia of the deep state," demanding he immediately resign. They
say Bar is undermining the government with an investigation Shin Bet agent who was arrested on suspicion of leaking classified information. Opposition
leader Yair Lapid is defending Bar, calling Israel's government a bunch of criminals who attack investigators trying to protect Israel's state
security.
Let's get really the perspective from a well-known guest on the show. Alon Pinkas, a former Israeli council general in New York. He joins us now from
Tel Aviv. Ambassador, thank you for joining us. Let me first get your reaction to what we have been heard just in the last few minutes. Hamas
military wing claiming they've lost contact with militants holding Edan Alexander, of course, an American citizen, the last living American
hostage. Your thoughts on this?
ALON PINKAS, FORMER ISRAELI CONSUL GENERAL - NEW YORK: Well, I saw as Jeremy Diamond accurately and succinctly put it, Hamas has lied before.
Hopefully, they're lying again. That doesn't mean it's necessarily the case, but hopefully, after releasing the video that you alluded to a few
moments ago, they're lying again.
It could be part of their negotiation tactic as these talks go on. Although, I hold very little optimism or hope for successful ending. But
you know, I don't know. Conceivably, it could happen because there's a war raging on, you know, with the global tariffs in Ukraine, Greenland, people
forget that there's a war raging on in Gaza.
And so, conceivably, they may be telling the truth. But as Jeremy Diamond said to you a moment ago, they have -- they do have a very bad track record
of lying repeatedly.
SOARES: And as Jeremy was saying, Edan Alexander has been central to this ceasefire proposal and this hostage deal. Where are we at right now?
Because Hamas says that it's -- you know, it's considering the plans, it is looking at the plans. Does this have any chance of -- actually, are we, are
we likely to see a deal here?
PINKAS: Look, I looked at the details, at least those that have been divulged of this early proposal that was forwarded to Egyptian mediators.
There are a bunch of non-starters there. And the tragedy of all this, Isa, is that both sides don't want the war to rent at this point. I know it
sounds horrible, it sounds a crude, but -- and it is tragic, but both sides have a vested interest in this status quo going on.
Israel is launching a major operation in Gaza for the last 28 days, but is not really occupying the entire Gaza Strip, meaning it cannot achieve the
complete obliteration and removal of Hamas. Hamas, on the other hand, still has the hostages and still retains residual political and residual military
power. So, unfortunately, I don't see this going anywhere.
There could be -- and Jeremy Diamond alluded to that as well, there could be a 45-day temporary ceasefire. But that we had that 28 days ago by virtue
of the January agreement that Israel unilaterally violated, let's let's face it. And so, a 45-day ceasefire is welcomed if it brings back Israeli
hostages, is welcomed by the Palestinians because they'll get the release of hundreds of Palestinian prisoners, but that won't get us any near to the
end of the war.
SOARES: And you write -- and I think you right for The Independent, it just came out here in the U.K., this savage war's trajectory and longevity
can also be attributed to a much broader and improved and strategic aspect. Israel conspicuously and deliberately had no political goals other than
destroying Hamas,
So, speak to the mood then, Alon, in the country, given that we are back here again, we are nowhere near an end this conflict, hostages still being
held, you know, Gazans are being squeezed ever so tightly in the Strip, no aid is being getting into the country since March. What is the mood inside
the country right now?
PINKAS: That's a very good question, because it has two answers and they're both compatible. One is dejection and resignation and fatigue that
people have been harboring, and -- you know, and dealing with since October 7, 2023, since that catastrophe and debacle. The other notion, the other
sentiment is anger and a lot of opposition to what Mr. Netanya is doing.
[14:40:00]
You look at consistent polls, 70 percent want him to resign, 65 percent support a hostage deal that would end the war. And yet, at -- while all
this is going on, and perhaps because it is going on, Netanyahu is back into launching his constitutional coup, which includes the war that he
waged on the Shin Bet, which is how we began this conversation. The Shin Bet being the General Security Service, the equivalent roughly of the FBI
in the U.S. or MI5 in Britain.
SOARES: Speak to that. This is something that, you know, it's playing domestically, but we are seeing Israeli ministers over the last few weeks
really redoubling their attacks on the Shin Bet.
PINKAS: Yes. It's -- you know, they're turning him into a super villain, into some kind of a J. Edgar Hoover, who's been plotting all this time and
masterminding some kind of a coup against Netanyahu. Look, ordinarily, Isa, this scandal with the Shin Bet operative, the Shin Bet -- he's a reservist,
by the way. He's not an active Shin Bet employee. He used to be in the Shin Bet. He left. He retired. And he's back doing some odd jobs as a reservist,
if you -- to call it that.
Ordinarily, this would be a nasty case of some intelligence official leaking information that he should not have secret information,
confidential information and documents to journalists and politicians. But the -- but, you know, nothing is ordinary here. Because this has to do with
Mr. Netanyahu's intent to fire Ronen Bar, who is the head of the Shin Bet, something that the Israeli Supreme Court issued an injunction against.
And so, now he's turning it -- turning this, I'm sorry, into some kind of a cabal. You know, there's a deep state. They're out to get him. It's a
militia, as you correctly quoted them. Ronen Bar is the enemy of the people. For God's sakes, you know, this vitriol -- they're accusing him of
treason (INAUDIBLE) less, treason. The head of the Shin Bet is accused of treason by Netanyahu's sycophantic ministers and indirectly by Mr.
Netanyahu himself.
So, again, the context is, and I know we have viewers all over the world, and they may not know the details of what you and I are talking about, the
context is that a year ago, Ronen Bar, the head of Shin Bet, warned Mr. Netan that extremist right-wing operatives are infiltrating or penetrating
the government legally, with authority and even gaining top jobs, and top positions in the -- including in the police ministry, or that's called the
Internal Security Ministry.
Now, Mr. Netanya dismissed this because he needed the cohesion of his government and the cohesion of his coalition. So, he dismissed that
offhandedly. Now, what this gentleman who's being who's -- who was apprehended and is now in custody, he apparently leaked documents that
indicate the extent to which the Shin Bet was investigating the police and these extreme right-wing elements inside the government.
That is why the government is calling this a coup and a deep state and, you know, a mutiny and what have you.
SOARES: Alon, I have a feeling that you will be talking much more about this as it continues, the story continues to play out inside Israel. Thank
you very much, Alon. Always great to see you. Thank you.
PINKAS: Unfortunately, you're right, we will be talking.
SOARES: Thank you. Still to come tonight, on-again, off-again, the usual story. Donald Trump's trade war is forcing European Union to fight back. We
have the details ahead on which major American goods could get caught in the cross heads. That's next.
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[14:45:00]
SOARES: Toilet paper, makeup, and tobacco. The European Union is preparing to hit the U.S. with retaliatory tariffs if trade talks fail. These are
just some of the major American goods you're looking at being targeted by E.U. in a newly published list that includes more than 400 products.
Meantime, U.S. President Donald Trump is considering a short-term tariff exemption for auto companies. Right now, the 25 percent tariffs in all cars
shipped to the U.S. are expected to raise the cost of buying a car by thousands of dollars, as we've been telling you here. on the show now.
Our Paula Newton is in Ottawa, Canada, tracking the tariffs impacts on auto companies. And Nic Robertson is here with me in London to focus on Europe.
Let me start, first of all, Nic, with, you know, this list that European Union has come out. The timing of this is interesting because we've had --
we had negotiations over the weekend on this 90-day reprieve and hoping for a deal. Where are we on that?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: So, the European Union took their decision last week for this $23 billion worth set of tariff
raises to 25 percent, and they announced the details of it today, perhaps because that was the day that they were going to start.
I think it's interesting, at several levels, the timing, as you say, but also, that these tariffs were specifically about the aluminum and steel
tariffs, the 25 percent globally that President Trump announced in February. So, it took the European Union until last week to reach the
decision. And what they announced today is very interesting because you -- as you say, it's things like toilet paper, its makeup, cigars, for example.
And you think, oh, well these aren't big ticket items. But that was what was going to be put on today.
Then there was going to be another round of tariffs at 25 percent in May, and they were going to include beef and agricultural products. And then, in
December, there was going to be another round on soybeans, which is a much bigger commodity for the U.S. The timing signals that the European Union is
in this for the long haul, and they're doing it in a careful, considered way.
There are a lot of even bigger ticket items like goods and services, pharmaceuticals, oil, the services in the service sector, they haven't hit
that. And they're still considering how they're going to respond to the 25 percent tariffs on the auto sector, and they're still considering that 10
percent horizontal tariff. So, those conversations on yesterday with Maros Siskovich in Washington, D.C. just the beginning. And he indicated it's
going to be very tough.
SOARES: Well, they've got 90 days, so less than 90 days. So, let's see where that goes. But, Paula, I mean, I kind of excuse the viewers for
losing track of it of where we are on all these tariffs. Well, there've been so many ping pong of tariffs. It's really quite hard to stay on top of
it.
Now, we're talking potentially about this exemption on auto car or on auto. Speak to us about that.
PAULA NEWTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, at issue here is really the fact that the Trump administration has taken quite a hammer to the supply chain,
right, Isa. It has to do with Mexico and Canada and how they play into U.S. manufacturers.
And so, what Trump has said that he will do is he might apply some exemptions and there is a very good reason. Isa, I want you to look at
this. This is from the Center for Automotive Research and Independent Research Institution that says almost $108 billion loss for U.S.
automakers. So, that's all automakers, even European and Asian ones that make cars in the United States. That is just for 2025.
[14:50:00]
And that is the reason he has had a long list of politician and lobbyists at the Oval Office saying, look, you must do something about this. Now,
look, the issue for Donald Trump is that he still wants to bring so much of that manufacturing back to the United States, but there might be a
reprieve, at least for several months that really doesn't do anything for the long-term view in terms of what Nic was talking about or Canada itself
in terms of how they negotiate, what they believe will be a fair-trade agreement with the United States. A lot of negotiations to come.
SOARES: And I've got you both here and I'm going to make -- really a question to both of you. I wonder what the conversations you are being
having with, be it CEOs, with diplomats, about what this is doing, one, this instability is doing to the United States economy or making deals and
the sense you're getting about this administration and whether they can rely on this, given the ping pong of decisions, a policy that we are
hearing. I'm pouring your thoughts first on this.
NEWTON: I mean, look, we're in the middle of an election campaign here. Very familiar to you. Mark Carney is currently prime minister. The election
is April 28th. He has said he will pivot Canada to doing things like trading more with the E.U. and the U.K. They do not see America as a
reliable trading partner any longer, period. It really doesn't even have anything to do with the American administration now in office, it actually
has to do with just the chaos of the political situation in the United States and that everything can turn on a dime. And that's really what I'm
hearing from both businesses and government.
SOARES: I wonder if that's reflected in Europe and putting aside the U.K. who's trying to -- which is trying to get its own trade deal.
ROBERTSON: They're basking in the reflection, because this is exactly what they want to hear, and it's exactly their appeal. The European Union has
said it will look to other markets. Canada would be a great one for them to turn to. Obviously, not as big as the United States, and it's not going to
want all the same good services, products, et cetera. But the message -- and this comes from European Union diplomat, actually the spokesperson for
Maros Siskovich, the trade negotiator -- a trade commissioner.
And it's very clear, it's saying, the European Union wants to send a very clear signal that it is calm, that is consistent, that it takes slow,
carefully considered and deliberate decisions in contrast to the United States, that it doesn't flip flop. It's sending a message of consistency to
other markets that it wants to do business with compare to United States. He thinks that's a big sell.
SOARES: And that's what markets (ph) wants to see. If I look at the numbers while they were on the left on my screen, they've gone, but I saw
red arrows right across the board. They want consistency, they want stability, and right now, that's what -- not what they're getting. Nic and
Paula, really appreciate it. Thank you very much indeed.
And still to come here tonight, elephants spring into action when an earthquake hits their zoo. We have the amazing video for Monday's quake in
California. That's next.
[14:55:00]
SOARES: Ohio State's football team made their way to the White House to celebrate their national College Championship on Monday. And while
President Trump seemed to do OK handling the Buckeyes' helmet he received from the team, as you can see there, Vice President J. D. Vance appeared to
have a bit of trouble holding on to the trophy.
And you'll see it right here. He ends up pretty much fumbling the trophy, so to speak, dropping the base to the ground. Later, Vance took to social
media, joking, they just didn't want anyone to get the trophy after Ohio State, so he decided to break it. Hopefully, Buckeye fans aren't throwing
out the yellow penalty flags, but you can imagine that video has plenty of memes on social media.
And finally, tonight, elephants at the San Diego Zoo spring into action as an earthquake hits Southern California. You want to see this, the 5.2 quake
struck on Monday, and you see the elephants get into protective alert circle as the shaking begins. The older elephants scramble, as you can see,
they're into place in order to protect the two calves. They remain in place for several minutes until they're certain the danger is over. Elephants
have the ability to feel sound through their feet and form alert circles when they perceive a threat. Stunning animal. It's my favorite by far.
And that does it for us for tonight. Thanks very much for your company. Do stay right here. Newsroom with Max Foster is up next. I'll see you
tomorrow.
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