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Isa Soares Tonight
Hamas Releases Last-Known Living American Hostage; Trump Begins First Major Foreign Trip Of Second Term; Kremlin Rejects Europe's "Language Of Ultimatums" On Truce; Putin Ignores Ukrainian And European Calls For Ceasefire; Putin Proposes Direct Talks With Ukraine; Stocks React To Easing Of Tariffs; U.S. And China Agree To Cut Tariffs For 90 Days; Afrikaners With Refugee Status Arrive In U.S. Aired 2:10-3p ET
Aired May 12, 2025 - 14:10 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:10:00]
ISA SOARES, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Hello, and a very warm welcome, everyone, I'm Isa Soares. Tonight, a moment of joy for one man and family,
a moment of hope for dozens of others. Hamas has released the last known living American hostage in Gaza just as U.S. President Donald Trump left
for the Middle East.
Edan Alexander is now back on Israeli soil, as you can see there, crowds gathered in Hostage Square in Tel Aviv clapping, celebrating his release.
Alexander is a dual Israeli-American who was serving in Israel's military when he was captured. Here you see him being handed over to the Red Cross
earlier in Gaza.
Hamas agreed to release him after negotiations with the United States as part of efforts to reach a comprehensive ceasefire and resume the flow of
aid. And it wants the Trump administration to pressure Israel to withdraw troops as well as end the war. Israel is making clear that won't happen,
but is sending a delegation to ceasefire talks in Qatar this week.
While Israel pauses attacks in Gaza to allow Alexander's safe passage. Before that, Gaza authorities say school sheltering families was bombed
today, killing at least 15 people. President Trump won't be stopping in Israel during his Middle East tour, instead, business deals with Saudi
Arabia, Qatar and the UAE are a top priority. Our Jeremy Diamond is in Tel Aviv with much more on Edan Alexander's release.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: In moments like this and moments like today, you certainly do feel the unity of the Israeli public
as everyone is sharing in the joy. Everyone is glued to their TV screens or their phones, you know, watching every twist and turn of Edan Alexander's
journey out of captivity and towards freedom.
We felt it as we saw hundreds of Israelis here jumping for joy as they learned that he had spoken to his mother, that he was alive and well when
they saw the photo of him standing on his own two feet. But as you say, there are also divisions about the path forward. A majority of Israelis, we
should note, have shown in poll-after-poll that what they would rather see at this moment is a deal to end the war in Gaza that also frees all
remaining 58 now, hostages held in the Gaza Strip.
The Israeli Prime Minister, however, in recent weeks chose to take a different direction. He said out loud for the first time that he believed
that the supreme objective of this war was the defeat of Hamas and Israel's enemies, placing it above the goal of securing the release of the hostages.
That is very much now being put into question. It, of course, drew significant opposition from the hostage families who were concerned about
what an expansion of the ground war in Gaza and the airstrikes would mean for their loved ones still held there. And now also, of course, we are
seeing this enormous pressure being brought to bear by the United States.
Whether that will force the Israeli Prime Minister to change directions and to go in the way of a deal to free the remaining hostages, to perhaps go
for a ceasefire in Gaza and ultimately end the war there, which is exactly what President Trump said that he hopes will ultimately be achieved by the
release of Edan Alexander and the subsequent negotiations that will happen in the coming days.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Our thanks to Jeremy Diamond. Let's get more on this. I want to bring in CNN's Stephen Collinson is in Washington, not just this, but also
the wider trip for President -- for President Trump here. Stephen, good to see you. Look, I think it's interesting and noteworthy that President Trump
has chosen not to go to Israel.
Are you getting though, an indication? It's really picking up from what we heard from Jeremy Diamond there, that this -- you know, this release now we
heard for Edan Alexander will put pressure. The administration will be putting pressure on Netanyahu to end the war, to push for a ceasefire here.
What are -- what are you -- what is your sense?
STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN POLITICS SENIOR REPORTER: Certainly, I think it's significant that the U.S. did not go through the Israelis with this hostage
release diplomacy they used, as they often do, the Qataris and Egypt to facilitate this. And clearly, Hamas is trying to send a message to create
some pressure on Netanyahu as the President goes to the region this week.
At the same time, it's still unclear, I think, what exactly the administration's plan might be for Gaza after the war, as is the case with
the Israelis. And I don't necessarily think the administration has gone beyond the steps of trying to get the hostages out, to thinking what that
might look afterwards.
[14:15:00]
So, perhaps that changes during the President's trip. I think we're at the stage where Trump is casting his eye around the world, and trying to rack
up what he sees as wins wherever he can get them to create some momentum for his administration and his foreign policy, and with an eye on domestic
politics, and I think that -- this release and the White House's work towards it fits into that strategy.
SOARES: Then look ahead, big picture here. Just set the scene on what we're expecting for this trip for us, what he wants to get out of this. What's in
the U.S. or what's on President Trump's wish-list here?
COLLINSON: The White House's primarily billing this as a trip to drum-up investment. They believe that the gulf states are willing to spend a great
deal of money on U.S. weapons. Trump, as part of his trade strategy and to mitigate the result of some of his tariffs, is seeking to really whip-up
trillions of dollars of investment in the United States.
We've seen lots of events at the White House whereby foreign businessmen come in and say they're going to invest, say, a $100 million or a $1
billion in a plant. That is what Trump is looking for. That said, I think just given the amount of geopolitical pies that the President has his
finger in right now from Russia and Ukraine to Iran talks that took place this weekend, to the massive trade breakthrough that he's proclaimed today
with China.
All of these are going to -- I think, in many ways, push themselves onto his agenda for this trip. So, I think it could be a very busy time. And
it's not just going to be a bunch of statements and speeches by Trump about economics and investment.
SOARES: Yes, plenty on his plate for sure. Stephen, good to see you. Thank you very --
COLLINSON: Thanks --
SOARES: Much indeed. Let's stay in the region, in fact, I want to bring in H.A. Hellyer, who is in Cairo; he's a Senior Associate Fellow at the Royal
United Services Institute for Defense and Security Studies, a well-known face here on the show. H.A., great to have you back on the show. Let me
start in Israel, where we have been seeing -- as we showed our viewers at the top of the show, a real moment of joy for Edan Alexander and for his
family.
Many, of course, are hoping that this is an opening for further hostage releases and putting an end to this war, or potentially a ceasefire. How do
you see this release? Because this is a side deal that the U.S. was able to strike with Hamas. It had nothing to do with Israel here. Just your take on
this.
HISHAM HELLYER, SENIOR ASSOCIATE FELLOW, ROYAL UNITED SERVICES INSTITUTE FOR DEFENSE & SECURITY STUDIES: Thank you very much. It's always a pleasure
to be on your program. I think it's good that it is framed as a side deal as your reporter said a few minutes ago, this didn't go through the
Israelis.
This was something that was actually negotiated without the Israelis being involved at all. It also does not include any deliverance or any deliveries
from the Israelis in terms of pausing the fighting, any further strikes on Gaza. This is something completely bilateral between the United States and
Hamas, obviously, through the mediators and Qatar as well as Egypt, as was mentioned.
But there's no -- how should I say -- there are no gifts after that, right? There are no Palestinian prisoners that are released. There's no pause in
the fighting from the Israelis. So, it's been described as a good faith measure, confidence-building measure, if you will, but confidence building
towards what? And here, I --
SOARES: Yes --
HELLYER: Think you see the clear divide between the instinct of the Trump administration to get some sort of a deal, some sort of a win. But it's a
win towards what? Beyond the media attention that we'll see today, we still see a widespread fear of famine and starvation in Gaza. There's nothing
changing when it comes to that.
There's no talk of an Israeli withdrawal. There's really no talk of an Israeli ceasing of attacks and strikes on Gaza. The situation remains to be
quite bleak. And I don't --
SOARES: Yes --
HELLYER: Think that this particular release is actually indicative of much, unless we see a lot more coming from the Israelis.
SOARES: You say that, but while we haven't seen this administration bring this conflict to an end, or potentially even put even further pressure or
more pressure, I should say, or any pressure to Prime Minister Netanyahu, we have seen the U.S. agree to a deal with the Houthis kind of sidelining,
as we heard on this show just last week, Netanyahu, direct talks with Hamas, talks with Iran.
And adding to this, the fact that, as I was discussing with Stephen Collinson, and the fact that President Trump's not even traveling to
Israel, H.A. So, what is the message, do you think, for Prime Minister Netanyahu? Are they more at odds now than ever before? How do -- how do you
frame these developments to the fact that potentially, there is some friction here.
[14:20:00]
HELLYER: Well, I think there's definitely friction. There's no question about that. I think that anybody who's been watching the relationship
between Tel Aviv and Washington D.C. over the last few months can tell that the relationship is not remotely where the Israelis thought it was going to
be. They expected there to be, quote, unquote, "no daylight between them and the Trump administration on all of these files."
Whether it was to do with Iran, whether it was to do with Yemen, whether it was to do with Hamas. But the bar has been set if I might say, extremely
low.
SOARES: Yes --
HELLYER: When it comes to Gaza, it's not simply about getting 1 or 2 or, you know, even the entire remaining of the hostages. It's about bringing
this war to an end and starting on a path of reconstruction of Gaza and eventually a political solution to what's going on there. None of that
takes place without, for example, a withdrawal of Israeli forces from Gaza.
Any remaining forces on the ground would simply be a recipe for more conflict, more instability and more suffering. There's no suggestion, up
until now, that that's going to take place. On the contrary, the quote- unquote, "aid" plan that has been suggested and agreed by the Israelis where you know, the IDF would secure certain areas, but there'd be American
contractors, subcontractors that would then deliver the aid.
It's been roundly condemned by the U.N. --
SOARES: Yes --
HELLYER: And different aid organizations because, of course, it completely flouts the rules of humanitarian aid delivery. And they admit, it would not
deliver to more than 60 percent of Gaza's population if the plan went according to plan. So, none of that has changed. And I think what you are
seeing is more tension coming to the surface.
We need to be very careful about seeing this tension as actually making a difference in terms of policy on the ground. As yet, we haven't seen that.
SOARES: Yes --
HELLYER: And we have to wait and see if this is actually going to make a difference on the ground in terms of bringing this conflict or even just
this war. I mean, the conflict is much larger than this war, but just bringing this war to an end.
SOARES: Yes, it does seem at least, the pressure, H.A., for many -- from many of the families, of course, of those still being held domestically has
intensified, many are asking tonight, why is it American-Israeli? Well, they are happy, of course, for his release. Why is this administration
talking about Netanyahu not putting the same amount of pressure, of course, and trying to end this war.
And of course, Netanyahu, not only, as you said, is poised to expand the war, but has made it explicitly clear that defeating Hamas is more
important than securing hostages, and that has not changed. Very quickly, H.A., go ahead.
HELLYER: But I would also add that, you know, why hasn't there been more pressure when it comes to Palestinians who have been held and detained --
SOARES: Yes --
HELLYER: For many months now. And of course, starvation and famine is visited upon the entirety of the Gaza Strip. That's a very destabilizing
situation, and an incredibly inhumane one. It's led the EU to -- or at least many members of the EU to consider the EU-Israel Association
Agreement. I think we need to remember all of these people. And I --
SOARES: Yes --
HELLYER: Thank you and your colleagues for doing your best to do that.
SOARES: We do that, and on Friday, just in this show, we talked exactly to an aid organization on the ground in Gaza, in Deir al-Balah(ph) and
actually talking about the starvation they're seeing with their very own eyes, throwing cold water, pouring cold water, like you say, H.A., on
exactly this plan that's been set up between the United States and Israel.
H.A., always great to see you. Thank you very much indeed.
HELLYER: Thank you.
SOARES: Still to come -- you're welcome. Still to come tonight, President Trump urging immediate peace talks between Ukraine and Russia, derailing a
ceasefire ultimatum from Europe. We go live to Kyiv. Plus, a major breakthrough in President Donald Trump's trade war. Despite details on
what's ahead and what's next for tariffs between the U.S. and China. That is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:25:00]
SOARES: Welcome back, everyone. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy says he would appreciate Donald Trump being at the negotiating table when
he meets Vladimir Putin in Turkey on Thursday. The Russian President suggested the direct talks after ignoring an ultimatum by Kyiv and its
European allies over the weekend to accept a 30-day ceasefire proposal or face massive sanctions.
But the U.S. President might have then undermined efforts to put pressure on the Russian leader by urging the Ukrainian President to immediately
accept Mr. Putin's offer. And earlier, he suggested he might be there, too. And if the gathering does go ahead, it will be the first meeting between
the Russian and Ukrainian Presidents since Moscow's full-scale invasion of Ukraine in 2022.
That's where -- but let's get the latest from our Nick Paton Walsh. He is in Ukraine for us this hour. So, Nick, it does seem that President
Zelenskyy is on board for now these direct talks, but said he would like President Trump to be there. What more can you tell us? What are you
hearing from Kyiv?
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL SECURITY EDITOR: It is extraordinarily fast moving. This remarkable drama between these three highly important men
whose relationships have always been so exceptionally fraught. Let me remind everyone the reason why we are in this particular moment, is that on
Saturday, four of leading European militaries came here alongside Ukraine and demanded a ceasefire that should have started really at midnight behind
me now.
It could potentially still begin at some point during today. But Russia has given no indication that it is interested in applying that unconditional
30-day ceasefire that Europe requested. That was originally a U.S. and Ukrainian idea. Instead, we have this focus upon a meeting on Thursday in
Istanbul, now that was originally proposed by Vladimir Putin for simply Russian-Ukrainian officials.
Zelenskyy turned that into a request to meet Putin directly, that appears to have been seized upon by Trump today, who possibly, obliquely, referred
to how the two leaders should come to Istanbul, essentially putting White House pressure on both Kyiv and Moscow to send Putin and Zelenskyy to that
destination.
We've since heard that they've all been talking to Erdogan, the Turkish President, potentially lining that up. What we don't know right now is
President Vladimir Putin's thinking around all of this. He tends to like the drama of leaving his decision to the very last particular moment, but
it does appear as though pressure is building towards an extraordinary summit, potentially in Turkey -- indeed between Trump, Putin and Zelenskyy.
If that doesn't happen, I think there will be some sense of disappointment potentially in the White House according to the statements we've heard from
Trump, it's always unclear when Trump speaks as to how much this is part of a studied diplomatic plan, and how much this is off the hoof, potentially
speculating what he'd like to have happen.
I think some consider that to be part of the mechanism, or indeed the charm of his style.
[14:30:00]
If we don't have this meeting, then of course, we're into a complex moment where the Europeans will have to persuade the Americans to back their plan
for massive sanctions against Russia, for ignoring this ceasefire. But we have dealt with an extraordinary 48-72 hours of diplomacy right now, one
that's gone from a demand for an unconditional acceptance of a month-long ceasefire, to now the idea of an extraordinary Trump, Zelenskyy, Putin
meeting in Istanbul as soon as Thursday.
Huge amounts of work to be done before that, Putin has to indeed himself accept it. But the pressure is mounting towards some kind of conclusion at
some particular point. I have to essentially give a health warning here that the idea of those three men, with their exceptionally complex
histories, Zelenskyy and Putin, have open disdain for each other.
Trump and Zelenskyy's relationship has been exceptionally complex, not to say, Trump and Putin's relationship will be the subject of history books in
the years going forwards. The idea of these three men suddenly hatching an immediate, long-lasting peace in that first remarkable clash of egos is
far-fetched, frankly, but certainly, will make for an interesting few days ahead.
SOARES: Indeed, it's the farthest we've come indeed. Dizzying diplomacy. I know you'll stay across it for us, Nick, appreciate it. Nick Paton Walsh
there for us in Kyiv, in Ukraine. Well, that's the view from Ukraine. The Kremlin has responded to European allies giving Russia troops ultimatum.
Speaking to journalists, spokesperson Dmitry Peskov called the language, quote, "unacceptable", adding that Europe cannot talk to Russia in such a
way. It was President Vladimir Putin himself who proposed direct talks, as you heard there from our Nick, with his Ukrainian counterpart. Since
Volodymyr Zelenskyy accepted, there has been no public reaction from Moscow.
Our Fred Pleitgen is live in Moscow. So, Fred, what is the thinking then from --
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes --
SOARES: The Kremlin? I think get your ball out, you know, mystic ball out and try give us a sense of what is going to happen here. That -- it seems
to be a delay in responding to what we've heard from President Trump. Would those comments from President Trump, would that sway Putin, you think, to
engage?
PLEITGEN: Yes, well, that's the big question that everyone's asking right here in Moscow. And you're absolutely right, since President Trump made
those comments that he would be willing to travel there to Istanbul to meet those two leaders, we still have not heard anything from the Kremlin just
yet.
But you're absolutely right. It was the Kremlin that actually did propose those direct talks instead of a ceasefire. I was actually there in the room
when Vladimir Putin did that in the very early hours of Sunday, saying that the Russians are after what he called a comprehensive agreement, a
comprehensive peace.
And the Russians, of course, also saying that they want their core interests to be taken into account. I was able to speak to the Kremlin
spokesman, Dmitry Peskov, shortly after Vladimir Putin made those remarks, and he said that they called this a maximum serious response on their side.
They believe that a ceasefire would only prolong the conflict because they think that it would allow the Ukrainians to regroup and retrench as the
Kremlin said. There was a call earlier today with that Kremlin spokesman, Dmitry Peskov, where he did say exactly what you just mentioned, that the -
- that the Russians are not going to be put under pressure by the Ukrainians -- by the Ukrainians and by the Europeans with the threat of
massive sanctions, and that they continue to want these direct talks.
I think there was one nuance that we picked up on here, Isa, which I thought was very interesting, the Kremlin saying that they see this as a
continuation of talks that happened at the beginning of the full-on war in Ukraine in February and March and April of 2022. Of course, those talks
beginning in Belarus, but then continuing in Istanbul as well.
And if that is what the Kremlin says, if that's what they want this to be, a continuation of those talks, those talks, of course, had representatives
from the Kremlin and from the Ukrainian presidency, but certainly nowhere near the top level, meaning Zelenskyy and Putin. So, it doesn't appear as
though in their initial thoughts, the Kremlin was thinking that this could be talks on an -- on the highest level between these two leaders.
And one of the other things that we have to take into account with all this as well, Isa, is that for the past couple of months -- really for the past
couple of almost a year now, the Russians have been calling Volodymyr Zelenskyy an illegitimate President because there have, of course, not been
presidential elections in Ukraine at a time when they should have been.
The Ukrainians obviously saying, that is due to the war situation. But it would be very difficult for the Russians after making that statement, after
claiming again and again that Volodymyr Zelenskyy essentially was not legitimate to then sit Vladimir Putin opposite him and come to some or try
to come to some sort of agreement.
So, that's something that still needs to be breached here. That's something they need to think about. But it certainly is not out of the question that
we might see those three --
SOARES: Yes --
PLEITGEN: Leaders meet there in Istanbul, but right now, there is no indication that Vladimir Putin really plans to go there to that summit.
[14:35:00]
SOARES: Well, domestically, on that point, he might not play well, not be seen. Well, but of course, internationally, we have also seen in the last
few weeks, Fred, how much pressure, how much frustration the U.S. administration is facing with President Putin --
PLEITGEN: Yes --
SOARES: The fact that we're not going very far with that quickly. Fred, I know you would stay across it for us. Thank you very much. Fred Pleitgen
live for us from Moscow this hour. And still to come tonight, a surge in global markets after the U.S. and China eased tariffs. But will previous
losses during the Trump trade war be raised? We'll get the latest from Wall Street just ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: Well, a trade breakthrough between the United States and China is pushing markets this hour. We're going to look at the numbers. Green hours
right across the board, and you can see those arrows, it hasn't been a while, it's been a while since we saw the surge as we're seeing right now.
The Dow surging, as you can see there, more than a 1,000 points right now, Dow up almost 3 percent. The Nasdaq, look at that, almost 4.5 percent,
similar picture with the S&P 500 up more than 3 percent. It is a sight for sore eyes compared to what we have been seeing here as we've been following
this tariff rollercoaster that was -- has been unprecedented and set in place by President Trump.
The agreement between Washington and Beijing, and this is why the markets are reacting, slashes tariffs for at least 90 days.
[14:40:00]
President Trump says he may speak with his Chinese counterpart later this week, pointing out multiple exceptions. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: First of all, that doesn't include the tariffs that are already on. That are our tariffs, and it
doesn't include tariffs on cars, steel, aluminum, things such as that, or tariffs that may be imposed on pharmaceuticals because we want to bring the
pharmaceutical businesses back to the United States. And they're already starting to come back now based on tariffs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Well, it is worth noting that President Trump started the trade war with China, and his tariffs caused disruption as I've been telling you here
in the global markets, as we've been showing you now, there seems to be optimism that those losses could be erased. Vanessa Yurkevich is in New
York.
And Vanessa, I mean, President Trump and his administration have throughout today, and we heard in his press conference earlier been really striking
optimistic tone, a victory of sorts. But I was interested to see one newspaper here in the U.K. calling it capitulation day. How has it been
received there?
VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN BUSINESS & POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Well, listen, it is being received extremely well on Wall Street. Just look at the numbers.
For the past six weeks, this is what I've been talking to investors and traders and analysts about. This is the agreement or the deal or the
conversation negotiation that they wanted to see between China and the United States.
They knew that these tariffs of 145 percent and 125 were just simply unsustainable. There was essentially an embargo between the two countries,
no trade was getting done. Just look at where they came down to, 30 percent now on Chinese exports and 10 percent on U.S. exports, and Wall Street
acting accordingly.
They are happy with this, even if it's just for 90 days. It's some sense of relief from those extremely high tariffs. Just look at the Dow there, over
-- up over 1,100 points. But on main street, a little bit more of a mixed picture here. And that is because still tariffs as they exist right now
between the U.S. and China are much higher than they were at the beginning of the year.
We've heard from the National Retail Federation, the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, applauding the administration, but saying that tariffs need to
come down even more. And we're also hearing from Footwear Distributors and Retailers of America, they represent Nike, Crocs, Adidas and small
businesses, here's what they said about this recent negotiation.
They said "this is a good step towards easing tension, which is important for American businesses and consumers. But we're not across the finish line
yet. Some shoes still face duties approaching 100 percent, and that's unacceptable." And that is because the footwear industry in particular has
tariffs stacked on top of tariffs.
So, you're hearing there that there's still some uncertainty in the business market about whether or not companies can really even afford the
tariffs that they had -- that are -- that they've been de-escalated to. Of course, we have 90 days left to go to see what other negotiations may shake
out. Business leaders just crossing their fingers that things do not escalate again. But in these 90 days, Isa, that there's a further de-
escalation helping businesses do business a little bit better.
SOARES: Vanessa Yurkevich, I know you've been speaking to a lot of businesses for the last few months. You got a real good sense of how, you
know, while there is a celebration of sorts for the next 90 days, there is a lot --
YURKEVICH: Yes --
SOARES: Of anxiety to --
YURKEVICH: Yes --
SOARES: What happens after that. Vanessa, thank you very much indeed. Well, let's stay with this. My next guest is the founder and CEO of Simplified.
Emily Ley says her U.S.-based company has paid more than $1 million in tariffs to the federal government since 2017. She joins me now from
Pensacola in Florida.
Emily, really appreciate you taking the time to be here with us on the show. You and so many small businesses, and my colleague, Vanessa Yurkevich
has been reporting on this for the last several weeks, in fact, have really gone through a rollercoaster, tariff rollercoaster. What does this rollback
in tariffs mean for you? I mean, it's only for 90 days or so, but what does it mean?
EMILY LEY, FOUNDER & CEO, SIMPLIFIED: For us it means more chaos. It's really hard to run a business and make future plans when things keep
changing. And my company, we've been working on plan B, plan C and D at this point, but we're still looking at 55 percent tariffs for our company,
and it's truly catastrophic.
SOARES: More chaos. But are you seeing this also, Emily, as a moment of opportunity? I imagine businesses are rushing to try and ship goods before
the deadline kicks in. Trying to get ahead of this. Are you doing the same thing? How far ahead are you planning here?
LEY: So, our company, we actually bring in all of our imports at one time for the year. So, we brought almost everything in January luckily. But we
are about to write our purchase orders for next year for the items that will come in next January, and that's what's so scary. I have to sign
purchase orders June 1st for what we'll be importing next January, and when things keep changing like this, it's almost impossible to make a plan.
[14:45:00]
SOARES: OK, speak then, Emily, and we'll talk to the criticism that we have heard from President Trump, that is, you know, we should be building and
making things in the United States. But speak to the impact that this has had on your -- the collateral damage this has had on your business. And how
much has this cost your business? Just weigh it down for us.
LEY: Yes, absolutely. So, since 2018, we have paid $1.17 million. We are looking at hundreds of thousands of dollars more just in this year alone.
And what it's meant for us is, we haven't been able to grow. We have had to not be able to hire people that we wanted to hire. We've had to make
changes in salaries and philanthropic giving and in our growth strategies as well. So, it's -- yes, it's had a lot of damage.
SOARES: And then, you know, I suspect then that you are -- you've also looked while this was all happening or prior to even starting the business,
as you look at, you know, getting majority of your goods in -- and your goods from the -- from the United States, right? Could you have --
LEY: Yes --
SOARES: Done it? How much would that --
LEY: Right --
SOARES: Cost you? Just break that down for us?
LEY: Well, our very first product, the Simplified Planner, we produced it here in the States in 2011, and each unit cost me $38 to make. That wasn't
profitable for us that year. But I knew that if the demand was there and the growth was there, that we would have options eventually.
And so, the following year, when we went to make more, I met with more United States manufacturers trying to find someone that could create this
first of its kind product. And every single one told me, we can't do it here, we can't do it for the price that you need it. You're going to have
to look overseas. And so, that's what we did.
SOARES: And you are --
LEY: And we just simply don't have the infrastructure here.
SOARES: Say that again, I didn't catch it, Emily, can you say that again?
LEY: We simply just don't have the infrastructure --
SOARES: Right --
LEY: In the United States to make the products that we're making.
SOARES: And that is critical. And that's exactly the point for so many businesses that while you would want to make it there, one is just you
don't have the infrastructure and it's just too expensive. Given, of course, the tariffs --
LEY: Right --
SOARES: You have become the first person, from what I understand, to file a lawsuit against President Trump over these tariffs. Just -- your quick
reaction. Is that going to continue? Are you going to continue with this lawsuit?
LEY: Oh, yes, absolutely. The lawsuit is actually about the illegality of how the tariffs came to be. According to the constitution, Congress should
have been involved. I should have been allowed to have my voice heard. And when the President made a snap decision to implement these tariffs, he did
it, circumventing the constitution. So yes, the lawsuit will continue.
SOARES: Emily, keep us posted on that lawsuit. Thank you very much for taking the time to speak to us. We're going to take a short break. We're
back after this.
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[14:50:00]
SOARES: Well, in Virginia, the first group of white South Africans have now arrived as refugees on a charter flight paid for by the U.S. government.
Trump administration says this is just the beginning of a larger effort to relocate Afrikaners, the minority ethnic group are mainly the descendants
of Dutch settlers.
Both U.S. President and Elon Musk, a native of South Africa, have accused the South African government of having racist, anti-white laws and
policies. In response, officials called these allegations, quote, "completely false". Our chief national security correspondent, Alex
Marquardt, has the details on this relocation program.
And he's -- Alex, good to see you. President Trump has been defending this. I saw as before he left to the Middle East, what has been -- what has he
said and what has been the reaction from South Africa here?
ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, he went even further today, Isa, President Trump saying that these white Afrikaners
were living under the threat of genocide in South Africa. So, just a short time ago, 59 Afrikaners, so white South Africans of Dutch colonial descent
arrived at one of Washington's main airports, Dulles Airport, welcomed off the plane by a deputy Secretary of State, Christopher Landau, who talked to
the press after welcoming these almost 60 now refugees.
By justifying this special program that they are being brought under because of the harrowing stories, he says, that they have faced, including
living under the shadow of violence and terror for some time. Now, remember, refugee and resettlement programs have essentially been
suspended, stopped all across the board.
So, this move really has racial overtones because, of course, the vast majority of migrants and refugees trying to come to the United States are
not white, and all of these 59 are. Back in February, President Trump issued an executive order accusing the South African government of stealing
white-owned land without giving any kind of compensation, of course, that is something that has been wholly rejected by the South African government.
We heard again from the South African President today, speaking to our colleague Larry Madowo, saying that the people who came to the U.S. today
do not fit the definition of a refugee. They are not being prosecuted, they are not being hounded. They are not being treated badly.
Now, these 59 Afrikaners, and we understand this is just the first wave. They will be assisted in resettling here in the United States with housing,
other kinds of government assistance, help finding a job and being put on a path to citizenship. But of course, there are countless advocates for
refugees and refugee groups who say these are not the kind of people who need this kind of help from the U.S. government. Isa.
SOARES: Alex Marquardt, thank you very much, Alex, I know you'll stay across this for us. We're going to take a short break. We'll be back on the
other side.
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[14:55:00]
SOARES: And finally tonight, twin tiger cubs have been revealed to the public at the Frankfurt zoo this past weekend. According to the zoo's
director, Rasmi and Mandela are lively and curious, that is, when they're not sleeping. This is the first time the Sumatran tiger babies could be
viewed by zoo visitors since they were born.
Sumatran tiger is a very endangered species, needing tremendous efforts to preserve them in their natural habitats. The cubs and their parents are
expected to spend the next year together. And that does it for us for this hour, very busy news hour. Do stay right here, though, "WHAT WE KNOW WITH
MAX FOSTER" is up next. I shall see you tomorrow. Have a wonderful day.
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