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Isa Soares Tonight

South African President Meets with President Trump at the White House; Trump Makes Unsubstantiated Claims About Genocide and South Africa's Treatment of White Farmers; Israel Faces Backlash After Warning Shots Were Fired Over Diplomats. Aired 14-15:00p ET

Aired May 21, 2025 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[14:05:00]

ISA SOARES, HOST, ISA SOARES TONIGHT: Hello, and a very warm welcome, everyone, I'm Isa Soares. And we begin in Washington tonight where U.S.

President Donald Trump has been hosting his South African counterpart Cyril Ramaphosa. President Ramaphosa wants to reset relations with the U.S. after

Mr. Trump froze aid to his country in February.

The U.S. President and his ally Elon Musk here in the Oval Office, you can see there, have accused South Africa of committing a quote, "white

genocide". Those claims have been strongly denied by the South African government. Well, today's meeting started out smoothly, but here is what

happened when the conversation zeroed in on the white genocide claims. Let's play it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CYRIL RAMAPHOSA, PRESIDENT, SOUTH AFRICA: We have a constitution. Our constitution guarantees and protects the sanctity of tenure of land

ownership. And that constitution protects all South Africans with regard to land ownership.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You're taking people's land away --

RAMAPHOSA: We have not --

TRUMP: From them.

RAMAPHOSA: We have --

TRUMP: And those people in many cases are being executed. They're being executed, and they happen to be white, and most of them happen to be

farmers. And that's a tough situation. I don't know how you explain that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SOARES: And that wasn't even the most uncomfortable moment by the way. We'll talk about that in just a moment. Last week, just for context here,

59 white South Africans with refugee status arrived in the U.S., United States, you can see there with their applications expedited. The

administration has suspended all other refugee resettlement.

Let's get straight to Kevin Liptak at the White House for more on this. And Kevin, this was -- I mean, I was watching it live, it's just incredibly

extraordinary and uncomfortable. Oval Office meeting that started about quips about golf, that then descended into, let's call it what it was, an

ambush. Just talk us through --

KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Right --

SOARES: What we heard.

LIPTAK: Yes, and clearly, the South Africans entered this meeting hoping to avoid some of the open confrontation that we have seen in the Oval

Office play out over the last several months. They brought with them these two white South African golfers that the President has this preexisting

relationship with.

President Ramaphosa came in wanting to talk about trade and improving the trade balance between the U.S. and South Africa. But it was clear President

Trump had different ideas about how this meeting would go. And he and his aides had prepared this multimedia presentation, trying to sort of put some

backing behind these baseless claims that he has been making, that a white genocide is underway in South Africa.

And so, he asked his aides to dim the lights, and he played this sort of remarkable video, it was really a political documentary. It did not contain

footage of President Ramaphosa. It contained footage of the opposition politician Julius Malema, who is, you know, the head of the communist party

in South Africa, something of a firebrand.

[14:10:00]

And he tried to make this video out to be evidence that white South Africans are being persecuted. You could tell that President Ramaphosa and

his delegation were deeply uncomfortable by the video. You saw it in their faces, you saw it in their body language, and afterwards they tried to make

the point very calmly, I should note, you know, this did not devolve into shouting between the two men.

President Ramaphosa speaking, you know, very slowly, very calmly to try and make the point that this one wasn't representative of his government,

that his government had really disassociated with this particular brand of South African politics. But also, that the claims that the President were

making are not backed up in data, that the data doesn't show that white South Africans are being killed at higher rates than black South Africans.

They acknowledged, yes, that there is a criminality problem in South Africa, that the murder rate is very high, that gang issues are prevalent

in particularly in the big cities there. But that, using that to try and claim that there is some sort of persecution, as the President has been

claiming is just false.

It was very evident that the President was not going to listen to those arguments. He was not backing down from these claims. It's not clear that

now that the meeting is about to be wrapping up, that he is any more convinced of this than he was heading into it. And I think it just goes to

show that, you know, no amount of sort of wooing, no amount of flattery is necessarily going to pull the President out of what is essentially a rabbit

hole of conspiracies that has been fueled on the fringe, including by Elon Musk; the South African-born Tesla CEO who has been a key adviser to this

White House.

Clearly, the President very much entrenched in these claims, despite the attempts by the South African delegation here to convince him otherwise.

SOARES: Yes, very much entrenched in this fringe conspiracy theory even after you heard -- of course, we heard from the white Agriculture Minister.

Kevin, thank you very much indeed. I want to continue this conversation with our Larry Madowo who listened to that. He joins me from Nairobi in

Kenya. And Larry, throughout, you know, I was pretty astounded to how calm and collected Ramaphosa was even when President Trump made exactly what

Kevin was talking about, this discredited claim that a white genocide is happening in South Africa.

Can you just clearly, for our viewers around the world -- can you just fact-check, and this is so important, what we heard from President Trump.

LARRY MADOWO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: President Ramaphosa was calm, yes, because he brought his most diplomatic self. He's a skilled negotiator who

once held brief for Nelson Mandela. And nothing could have prepared him for this multimedia ambush that President Trump laid out. A four-and-a-half

minute video montage showing videos taken out of context, and some printouts of easily debunked laundry list of conspiracy theories.

Almost everything President Trump said was inaccurate. Today was a good day for white supremacists in South Africa, because they got the validation

from the highest office they could have ever imagined, from the White House, and President Trump helped deliver that. Even AfriForum, this white

Afrikaner lobby group that some consider a white nationalist group fell short of calling this a white genocide when we spoke to them yesterday.

And they have been very critical of President Ramaphosa's government. That's how far that they have gone. We looked into this issue of white

farmers getting killed in South Africa, and we looked at police statistics. I need to warn here that South African police do not release crime

statistics by race, but a lot of the land in South Africa, the majority of the land is owned by the white minority.

So, the farmers tend to be white, the workers tend to be black or colored. And between April and December 2024, there were only 36 farm murders in

South Africa, and only seven of them were farmers. What is a real issue in South Africa is, there's a crime problem, and the Agriculture Minister,

that D.A. leader, an opposition party that has opposed President Ramaphosa's ANC Party for 30 years, now in the coalition.

Johnston(ph), who is -- of the D.A., said in that Oval Office meeting that the one -- there's no white genocide, but they have a rural safety problem,

and this affects both white and black South Africans. But that did not really get to President Trump. He still pushed back. He showed this video,

Isa, of these 1,000 cars supposedly showing -- representing 1,000 farmers who have been killed.

President Ramaphosa did not recognize that video. It does not appear to be of white farmers who have been killed, but it was a political protest

against his government, not about specific killings, but many white farmers fear for their safety, and yes, they have had lots of protest against the

government, but we can't find any evidence of a white genocide in South Africa.

[14:15:00]

We've now heard a response from Julius Malema. He's the one you saw in the video singing kill the Boer, kill the farmer. This is an anti-apartheid

song from the 1980s. It was used then as a rallying call against the system of apartheid. This unjust system where white minorities control the

country, it's become popular again because Julius Malema has brought it back.

He leads the Economic Freedom Fighters Party, it's a far left opposition party. He was expelled from President Mandela's ANC Party about a decade

ago, and he said in his response a short-while ago that some older white men met in Washington to gossip about him. And he said this will not

distract him from their call, which is expropriation of land without compensation.

What the EFF and Julius Malema want is full and total seizure of land from white farmers. This -- what they want would go a lot further than the law

President Ramaphosa signed into law back in January. Under that law, the government of South Africa can seize land if it is unused and if it is

deemed to be just, equitable and in the public interest.

So, what President Trump says that they're seizing land from white farmers and some of them are getting executed, he said that specifically to

Ramaphosa, he said we're not. But he then -- he just kept talking over him, Isa.

SOARES: So important that you lay down the facts, lay out the facts here for us after hearing, of course, that extraordinary meeting. Thank you very

much, Larry, appreciate your reporting. And coming up in fact, in the next hour, in the next 45 minutes or so, we will hear Max Foster, my colleague,

will be joined by South Africa's Minister of International Relations Ronald Lamola, for his take on the meeting -- on that meeting, you do not want to

miss that conversation.

Still to come in the meantime here on the show --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(EXPLOSIONS)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

(EXPLOSION)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SOARES: Israel faces international backlash after opening fire on an international delegation visiting the Jenin Refugee Camp in the West Bank.

We'll have a live report from Jerusalem. And then later this hour, I asked Finland's Foreign Minister Elina Valtonen about that shooting, the war in

Gaza and Russia's war in Ukraine. A very busy hour indeed, you are watching CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SOARES: Well, tensions have flared up in the occupied West Bank.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(EXPLOSION)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

(EXPLOSION)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[14:20:00]

SOARES: That video you're looking at right there obtained by CNN is Israeli forces firing warning shots at a delegation of European as well as

Arab diplomats near the Jenin Refugee Camp. The Israeli military says the delegation had deviated from an approved route and entered a restricted

area. No injuries were reported.

The incident drew immediate international condemnation, while the Palestinian Authority's Foreign Ministry called for accountability. The IDF

says, it quotes, "regrets the inconvenience caused." Our Jeremy Diamond is in Jerusalem for us following various angles, what has been a very busy

day. And Jeremy, you know, we'll talk about that in just a moment because in the last, what? Forty five minutes or so, we've also been hearing from

Prime Minister Netanyahu, very defiant Netanyahu as he addressed the country.

Talk us through what we heard and really what happened in Jenin as this large delegation of diplomats came under fire.

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Well, firstly, as it relates to the Israeli Prime Minister in his news conference, he made very clear

that he will not agree to an end of the war unless Hamas agrees to all of his conditions, which include Hamas disarming, Gaza being demilitarized.

And he also seems to have thrown in an additional condition today, talking about an agreement for Trump's, quote, "voluntary migration plan to go into

effect", which would see the mass displacement of Palestinians outside the Gaza Strip.

The Prime Minister made clear that as these negotiations are still ongoing with Hamas over a potential ceasefire and hostage release deal, that he

will only agree to end the war under those conditions, and otherwise, he is only willing to go for some kind of a temporary ceasefire, but that after

that, Israel would continue to return to the war to achieve all of those goals as previously outlined.

And so, he is, you know, effectively sticking to his guns here, not changing his position even as these negotiations are underway, really

showing no real signs of flexibility, and what could also be a way to telegraph to his right-wing governing partners, you know, not to start

getting jittery about reports of, you know, movement in these negotiations with Hamas.

The Prime Minister also said that it seems that Mohammed Sinwar; the de facto leader of Gaza in -- of Hamas in Gaza, that it seems that he has been

killed in that Israeli strike that took place last week. But he did not officially confirm that. We have heard him say things, similar things

before as it relates to Mohammed Deif, for example, the Hamas military commander who was killed last Summer before the Israeli military had final

confirmation and actually put that out there.

So, we don't yet take that as official confirmation, but certainly making clear that the indications at least are that he was likely killed.

SOARES: Can I ask you then about that delegation of European-Arab diplomats? What happened there? Why didn't the IDF just simply go up to

them and tell them you've deviated from your normal route? Why shoot?

DIAMOND: It's a great question because the Israeli military effectively justified those warning shots by saying that it was a means of telling

these diplomats to move away from what they described as an unauthorized area where they were not allowed to be. They did not, however, explain why

they couldn't simply shout at them or use a bullhorn to tell them to move.

And so, we don't have any answers on that question. What is clear, though? At least seven shots were fired based off of listening to a couple of the

videos from the incident. It's also clear that the soldiers were pointing their weapons in the direction of these diplomats, and then firing over

them. And it is also clear that this is sparking a tremendous diplomatic uproar from a number of European countries who were part of this delegation

of 20-plus countries that were touring the Jenin Refugee Camp.

We have already seen France and Italy calling in the Israeli ambassadors to their countries to ask for a formal explanation of this incident. We have

heard very critical comments as well from the European Union's Foreign Affairs chief, who said that any threats to diplomats' lives are

unacceptable, and calling on the Israeli military to investigate. Isa?

SOARES: Yes, and I myself have heard from the Portuguese Foreign Minister via WhatsApp, and we're going to hear from the Finnish Foreign Minister in

about 20 -- 10 minutes or so. Jeremy, thank you very much indeed. Well, I want to stay in the region and focus in particular on Gaza because we have

been watching, we've been showing you this, Jeremy has been showing it to you.

Children starve, pretty much live-streamed to the world. That is the urgent warning from UNICEF as Gaza reaches what the agency calls a, quote, "point

of absolute catastrophe.

[14:25:00]

On Tuesday, the United Nations announced that Israel approved the entry of around 108 trucks into Gaza, an increase from just the five, if you

remember that we told about, that was allowed in on Monday. The U.N. said Tuesday, the new aid hadn't been distributed yet. U.N. officials warned

that this is still far, really far from enough.

And before the war -- and this is important context, around 500 trucks were entering Gaza daily. A number that was really needed. This is something

I've heard from various NGOs that was really needed to really meet basic humanitarian needs. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AHMED FATHI, DISPLACED PALESTINIAN (through translator): None of us can find anything to eat. The five trucks that arrived won't even make a dent

in the shortage. They might as well not come at all. Gaza needs at least 100,000 trucks to meet people's demand for just eating. We're living in a

catastrophe. There's no food, no water, no work, nothing to make us feel alive. We might as well count as dead.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SOARES: International pressure is mounting on Israel as it's renewing as well as expanding its military operation inside Gaza. The U.K. has paused

trade talks with Israel, and it's vowing concrete action along with France and Canada. German Chancellor Friedrich Merz says he's very concerned about

the humanitarian situation, while the Australian Foreign Ministry called for a full resumption of aid to Gaza.

And during the first general audience of his papacy, today, Pope Leo, as you can see here, also called for Israel to allow aid to enter the

territory, he also appealed for a ceasefire and release, of course, of the hostages by Hamas. I want to get more on this. Joining me now from -- is

the World Food Program's Palestinian Country Director, Antoine Renard, in Jerusalem.

Antoine, really appreciate you being on the show with us again. Can you give us a sense of what you understand as to what is the delay in the

distributing of this aid? What's the holdup?

ANTOINE RENARD, PALESTINE REPRESENTATIVE & COUNTRY DIRECTOR, WORLD FOOD PROGRAM: Well, the current challenge that we have is that, there's been

now, three days that we've been negotiating to have a proper routing with the Israeli. We were actually initially given a routing that would actually

go through areas that are heavily populated.

We actually had to negotiate to have a proper way in. As we speak, I have colleagues that are on the ground, that are just waiting now for a green

light to leave Kerem Shalom on the crossing on the Gaza side, to actually enter into the Gaza Strip, and to actually manage to deliver some of the

goods for the World Food Program, some for UNICEF as well as for ICRC.

Again, we are facing some of the challenges that we had already in December or in January before the ceasefire, waiting for green light. And speaking

about 80 trucks --

SOARES: Go ahead, finish that thought, Antoine.

RENARD: No, I'm just speaking about 86 trucks --

SOARES: Yes --

RENARD: It's not even a drop in the ocean. We actually require a proper scale, a proper sustained assistance to be delivered. You just heard it

from the people that are in Gaza.

SOARES: Yes, absolutely desperate situation, which we've been telling our viewers day-in-day-out. But why -- just very quickly on the -- on the first

point you made, Antoine, we -- don't you already have an infrastructure in place, route in place for this distribution? Why change the route?

RENARD: Well, that's exactly the challenge that we have, is that when we were -- during the time of the ceasefire, we could work practically up to

5:00 a.m. into the platform. We were able to provide assistance to the whole population. We managed actually to free the situation where three

quarter of the population in Gaza were having a right access to food.

And now again, it seems that every movement that we need to do is again a negotiation, waiting for green light, waiting for trucks to move. This is

again, we have the network. We have the know-how, we have the expertise. We need to be allowed to do the job that we are best at.

SOARES: And I can hear, Antoine, as you're speaking, the frustration in your voice, the frustration that I have heard from various NGOs here on my

show, especially when you hear -- and I know you can expand on this, that you have trucks on the other side of the border, countless trucks packed

with food waiting to get in.

RENARD: Imagine we have enough to feed the whole Strip for the next two months. That's why you hear my voice being frustrated. But this time, it's

even beyond. It's been practically 80 days of a total closure, and it's as if we have to beg to get trucks in. That is just not acceptable. We need to

actually provide assistance to this population, which is -- which is currently facing a number of evacuation order.

They are fleeing from where they're being bombarded, and they can't even access one-and-a-half meal per day, and even the quality of what they're

getting is suboptimal. That's why you're facing now more and more issues related to starvation, as well as one malnutrition into the Gaza Strip. 40

kilometers, and we've got all the foods to actually sustain this population while they're waiting for a long-lasting solution.

ISA SOARES, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: And look, you probably feel the frustration on my side too, because every time I have an NGO on my show, I

ask for a really a sense of what you are seeing, you and your teams are seeing on the ground. But I think it's so important that we paint -- that

you really paint a me image of the malnutrition of what life is like.

I mean, the footage we'd been showing viewers is a group of children with pants in their hand, all squashed together, all vying for scrums of food.

Tell us what you have seen.

RENARD: I was in Gaza between the 4th and the 11th of May, and I went actually also to Gaza City. What you see is families that are waiting,

waiting for a solution, but the problem that they have is that they cannot have access to the bare minimum. We had to stop our bakeries. We had to

stop our distribution of food parcels.

There are currently 250,000 meals that are still produced on a daily basis for 2.1 million people in Gaza. A bag of wheat flour cost $500. How a

population can access any of these goods? And on top, most of the wheat flour that is in Gaza now is actually rotten because we start also to be --

into the summer period. So, what you have is kids that are actually just contemplating a cube -- of broth cube and a bit of a soup, that is their

daily intake. How can you explain that?

And the impact, of course, that has on children's development is so crucial. I heard the UNICEF spokesperson today, say on our air that, you

know, this is the delivery of aid at the moment, or that's being paused, but what is being planned right now is a smokescreen. Clearly, this is not

a long-term plan.

What do you make then, Antoine, or of this U.S.-Israeli initiative, Gaza Humanitarian Foundation, long-term in terms of what they've planned? Do you

think it will work?

RENARD: What we think is that we don't need a new system. We have proved during the ceasefire that we had all it takes and a humanitarian solution.

We have also proven that we could actually reach civilian population into Gaza. We have proven as U.N. and humanitarian that we could help hostages

to be freed.

SOARES: Yes.

RENARD: Why do you need a new system? Actually, to force people to go to four hubs? How are they going to move? Most of the population don't even

have proper transportation. There's no fuel in Gaza. And on top, if you want to avoid aid diversion, what are you going to do? Half population,

gets a box, sell the vast majority of the box to be able to go back to their family. Who's going to buy this? You can actually support more aid

diversion.

Would any of you leave its family under bombing to do 25 kilometers to get a box of food? Is this the way that the plan is supposed to operate? We

have a solution. We have the know-how. That's why we saying we don't need new system or architecture. We need actually to be trusted for the job that

we do. And we've been doing for more than 19 months, and many of the partners on the ground have been operating in Gaza for many years.

SOARES: Yes. Antoine, as always, great to get your perspective. Thank you very much, Antoine Renard there.

Now, as we mentioned, foreign diplomats, as I was speaking to Jeremy in the last few minutes, came under fire, Israeli fire on an official visit to

Jenin Refugee Camp in the occupied West Bank. Among them were Finnish nationals, and at about seven minutes time, in fact, I'll be speaking to

Finland's foreign minister. Elina Valtonen, about the war in Gaza as well as the war raging in Ukraine. And we do want to stay tuned for that

conversation.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:35:00]

SOARES: Welcome back, everyone. Russia's president has made his first visit to Kursk since Moscow claimed to have completely recaptured the

region from Ukrainian forces. Russian State media report that Vladimir Putin on Tuesday visited the Kursk nuclear power plant, which is currently

under construction, and that is according to the Kremlin.

He also reportedly met with municipal leaders. The visit comes as the Russian president withstands pressure, of course, to agree to a 30-day

ceasefire between Russia and Ukraine. And it followed a phone call on Monday with U.S. President Donald Trump, during which Mr. Putin did not

offer any clear concessions in the conflict.

Well, Finland shares its eastern border, as you know, with Russia and has begun constructing a fence, which will eventually cover 200 kilometers or

about 124 miles of that border. It's just completed, in fact. The first 35 kilometers, about 22 miles, to stop migrants crossing into Finnish

territory from Russia.

Let's get more. And there's a lot for us to discuss today. Joining me now as Finland's foreign minister, a well-known here face here on the show,

Elina Valtonen, who's live for us from Helsinki. Foreign Minister, great to see you. Welcome back to the show.

I was going to start with that diplomat -- that call, that lengthy call between President Trump and President Putin. But I wonder if you can

clarify something that I'm seeing that's been quoted from your president, Finnish President Alexander Stubb, that says that it is very likely that

Russia and Ukraine will hold technical level talks next week, for example, at the Vatican. What can you tell us?

ELINA VALTONEN, FINNISH FOREIGN MINISTER: I think it would be a fantastic first step to sit down at the technical level and see if there's any chance

of, you know, proceeding on the issues which have stalled. Now, what we have observed over the course of the past weeks is that Russia obviously is

the only one who has not been willing to stop the fighting and to engage in that full and unconditional ceasefire.

[14:40:00]

Ukraine has declared itself ready for that for two months already. And of course, last week, we saw this incident where Putin first called a

negotiation, and then it turned out that he wasn't willing to show up himself.

SOARES: And can you just confirm whether that that is going ahead? Because I know your president is saying will hold technical level talks. Can you

just clarify that for us, Foreign Minister?

VALTONEN: Of course, at the end of the day, it needs to be both teams or all teams present, let's put it this way. And thus far, it's been Russia

who's been the unreliable part. So, let's see what comes out of it. But I'm hopeful that there will be at least some level of discussion. And if no,

then, of course, Europe stands ready to react. We just passed our 17th sanctions package and we are working on the 18th as we speak.

And I hope that our American friends will also be stepping forward if indeed, again, we experience Russia, you know, not coming forward at all.

SOARES: And I wonder what level you are? I mean, is there a sense whether you think that President Putin will show up? Of course, everyone was

expecting him to show up in Turkey. That didn't happen. What are you hearing on that front? What are we likely to see, do you think?

VALTONEN: I'm not able to comment at this stage at what stage the talks are, ahead of the talks. So, it say -- but again, I'm massively hopeful in

the sense that there will be any major breakthroughs. But of course, we have to stand ready for that to happen as well. And of course, it's not

that Ukraine wasn't willing and able to start the talks even if there isn't a ceasefire.

But again, I have to reiterate, the European Union together with the United States has called for 30-day unconditional ceasefire, and Ukraine has

declared to be ready for that. Now, we are waiting for Russia to do the same.

SOARES: Indeed, and this is something that Europe has been calling for even before this meeting, you know, in Turkey where he did not show up at.

And I wonder whether following that call, Foreign Minister, between President Putin and President Trump where you felt -- you know, when we got

the readout, it felt like very two very different readouts there, whether you came away feeling like President Putin was dragging his feet and why --

and whether he's stalling? If so, why is he stalling?

VALTONEN: I think Putin has been playing games all along. And I have to be yet convinced of the opposite. So far, nothing is showing that he would

genuinely want to engage in these peace talks. Having said this, I think President Trump really has the genuine effort of finding peace to the war.

But Putin is not willing to come forward.

And the problem here is, of course, that Putin thinks that he has all the cards, but he actually does not have too many cards, especially longer-

term. We are looking at a tanking economy in Russia. It is reliant on oil exports. Now, that the oil prices come down, we forecast that by the end of

the year, the net wealth funds of Russia will be more or less depleted.

Russia does not have any access to the international financial market. So, it has to borrow domestically. So, essentially, it's printing money for its

own banks to be able to fund its war effort. So, of course, this can go on for some time. And as we know the Russians, they probably are willing to

sacrifice their last man and spend their last ruble on under war. But the economic pressure just has to be kept up and I think we need to be ramping

up that now as well.

SOARES: Can I turn, Foreign Minister, to the Middle East, a story that we've covered one the last 10, 15 minutes, and in particular in Jenin, what

happened in Jenin in the West Bank today, where we have seen a delegation of foreign diplomats coming under fire. The IDF tell CNN that the

delegation, and I'm quoting here, "deviated from the approved route and entered an area where they were not authorized to be." And then, soldiers

operating the area fired warning shots to distance them away.

I understand that one of your diplomats was part of that delegation. What can you tell us and have you had a conversation with Israel about what

occurred?

VALTONEN: I haven't had a conversation with Israel yet, but we expect full clarification of the events and how this could happen. Any deviation of any

route is not an excuse. It is prohibited to open fire against civilians even under the laws of war. And now, of course, these people were also

under diplomatic protection.

[14:45:00]

I have spoken with our diplomat and she's doing great despite the circumstances. But now, we await clarification from the Israeli government.

SOARES: Will Finland be summoning the Israeli ambassador over the incident like some of the other countries have done?

VALTONEN: Yes. Yes. That's what we will be doing.

SOARES: You will be. Can I turn to Gaza, Foreign Minister, which, as you well known and as we heard from various U.N. agencies is at the brink of

famine? U.N. saying basically today that it's at the point of, quote, "absolute catastrophe." Can I get your reaction to this increasingly

desperate situation and what further pressure can be put on Netanyahu and indeed on Hamas?

VALTONEN: Isa, I think we all suffer looking at these pictures. We have been suffering for such a long time, but it's nothing compared to what

those people in Gaza go through as we speak, especially all those children. And this is certainly something we cannot accept as the International

Community, and we haven't been accepting it.

And we just call on Israel to return to the ceasefire and make sure that humanitarian aid reaches the region as soon as possible and each and every

individual there as well. At the same time, we, of course, call on Hamas to release the remaining hostages. Some of them are still alive. So, that

would need to happen immediately. And we just encourage those negotiations between Qatar and Egypt and of course, the parties to proceed as quickly as

possible.

And then, we genuinely need to go back to our drawing boards and look at the two-state model, because that is the only solution that will guarantee

a peaceful future for the region.

SOARES: Foreign minister, as always, really appreciate your insights and you taking the time for us to be here with us. Thank you very much, Foreign

Minister. Great to see you.

VALTONEN: Thank you so much, Isa. See you next time.

SOARES: You're very welcome. See you soon. Still to come, a deadly ambush in Mexico, as the country faces increasing political violence. We'll

discuss why the location of the killing is surprising. That story is next.

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[14:50:00]

SOARES: Now, to a new shocking incident in Mexico. Two top aides for the mayor of Mexico City were ambushed in broad daylight, shot and killed. The

city's widely seen as safe from political violence. Here's CNN Valeria Leon. And we'd like to warn you, some of the images in this report may be

disturbing.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VALERIA LEON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Murder in broad daylight on their way to work. Two Mexico City officials, the mayor's private secretary

and an adviser, were ambushed on Tuesday morning on a busy avenue in the country's capitol.

CCTV capturing the moment when a gunman approaches Ximena Guzman's car just as her colleague, Jose Munoz, is about to get in and shoots them both.

The country's president, Claudia Sheinbaum, was seen learning about the attack during her daily press conference, breaking the news live minutes

later.

We express our solidarity and support for the families of these two individuals who have worked in our movement for a long time, Sheinbaum

said.

Authorities said they're investigating the motive for the killings and added that they've seen a motorcycle near the scene and a vehicle nearby

that may be linked to the incident.

Mayor Clara Brugada was basically emotional when she paid tribute to her two aids, with whom she said she shared dreams and struggles. She described

Ximena as quote, "a wonderful, tireless and very good woman." And Jose known as Pepe, as, quote, "one of the most intelligent and responsible

people I've ever met."

To investigate, clarify, and to ensure there is no impunity, the mayor said, this is our commitment.

LEON (voice-over): As mayor of Mexico City, Brugada holds the second most powerful political position in the country after the president. The two

women are allies in the Morena Party. Less than two weeks ago, Yesenia Lara Gutierrez, a mayoral candidate in the State of Veracruz, also from the

ruling party, was gunned down during a live stream alongside three other people.

And last year, Mexico saw a record number of victims of political violence, that's according to the Human Rights organization, Data Civica, which

reported a total of 661 attacks on people and facilities.

But while the targeting of politicians is a common crime across the country, attacks in the capitol are rare. Making the assassination of

members of the mayor's inner circle particularly shocking.

Valeria Leon, CNN, Mexico City.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SOARES: We are going to take a short break. We'll be back after this.

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[14:55:00]

SOARES: Well, a big first in fiction for International Booker Prize Awards in London. For the first time, a collection of short stories is the winner.

Author Banu Mushtaq and her translator beat out five other finalists for the award. Their book, "Heart Lamp," is a compilation of 12 stories written

over a period of more than 30 years. The stories chronicle their everyday lives and struggles of women in Southern India. Congratulations to them

both.

And the edition of our Book Club also focuses on a collection of short stories. Monika Radojevic joins us with "A Beautiful Lack of Consequence,"

a collection of 30 striking tales, navigating womanhood. She tells me what she hopes the book can achieve. Have listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MONIKA RADOJEVIC, AUTHOR, "A BEAUTIFUL LACK OF CONSEQUENCE": I think what I want this book to tell to -- you know, to leave people with, to leave

women with is this sense of, yes, anger about what it means to exist, but also, I think awe and joy of what it means to be a woman. Because what it

means to be a woman is not just about living under oppression. What it means to be a woman is to -- is just this incredible, joyful, unbelievable

experience. And, you know, I wouldn't change that for anything.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SOARES: It's a really great conversation. You do not want to miss that. That does it for us for this hour. Incredibly busy, as you saw. Thanks for

watching tonight. Do stay right here. "What We Know with Max Foster" is up next. I shall see you tomorrow. Have a wonderful day.

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[15:00:00]

END