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Isa Soares Tonight
Palestinian U.N. Envoy Breaks Down As He Pleads with Security Council Over Gaza; Germany Announces Plans to Help Ukraine Produce Long- Range Weapons; Harvard Remains Defiant; Trump Team Pauses Student Visa Interviews; James Longman Joins Isa's Book Club; Sarah Jessica Parker Discusses Documentary "The Librarians". Aired 2-3p ET
Aired May 28, 2025 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00]
ISA SOARES, HOST, ISA SOARES TONIGHT: A very warm welcome to the show, everyone, I'm Isa Soares. Tonight, a plea to stop unbearable suffering. The
Palestinian ambassador breaks down at the U.N. Security Council as desperately-needed aid can't arrive fast enough to save those starving in
Gaza.
Russia proposes a new round of talks with Ukraine as Germany announces plans to help Kyiv produce long-range weapons. We have the very latest for
you. Plus, the Trump administration clashes with Harvard, casting a cloud on what should have been a week of celebration at the Ivy league school.
But first, Gaza is being erased before our eyes. That warning today from the U.N.'s Humanitarian Office as the death toll from the war reaches a
somber new milestone. Fifty four thousand people have now been killed in Israeli attacks, according to the Palestinian Health Ministry. The U.N.
Security Council met for hours today on the Gaza war.
Sitting next to the Israeli ambassador, a U.N. special coordinator said the world must not become numb to the mass casualties. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SIGRID KAAG, U.N. SPECIAL COORDINATOR FOR MIDDLE EAST PEACE: We should not become accustomed to the number of people killed or injured. These are
daughters, mothers, young children whose lives have been shattered. All have a name, all had a future, all had dreams and aspirations.
And since the collapse of the ceasefire in March, civilians have constantly come under fire, confined to ever shrinking spaces and deprived of life-
saving relief. Israel must halt its devastating strikes on civilian life and infrastructure.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: And she went on to say that the aid allowed into Gaza so far is comparable to a lifeboat after the ship has sunk. A U.S.-Israeli-backed
foundation says it has now opened a second distribution site without incident. Yesterday, the first site it opened was overrun if we brought you
those images by Palestinians desperate for food.
Palestinian health officials say one person was killed and 48 others injured by gunfire. The IDF says troops fired only warning shots outside
the aid compound. Well, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says the military is making a dramatic shift towards the complete defeat of Hamas.
He announced today that Mohammed Sinwar; the de facto leader of Hamas has been killed in a recent strike. Our Jeremy Diamond has more for you from
Tel Aviv.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Well, for the first time, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says that Mohammed
Sinwar has been killed. The de facto leader of Hamas in Gaza was targeted in an Israeli airstrike about two weeks ago that we know killed at least 28
people and wounded 50 others.
But until this moment, Israel had not confirmed that Sinwar was in fact killed in that strike. And so, this is the first time we are hearing
confirmation from the Israeli Prime Minister himself. Important to note, though, that the Israeli military has yet to release a statement on the
matter, and typically they would confirm such a high profile killing in a statement.
The Israeli Prime Minister's comments came as he was talking about how he believes Israel has changed the face of the Middle East, listing a series
of Hamas leaders whom Israel has killed over the course of this war, and listing Mohammed Sinwar among them. Hamas has neither confirmed nor denied
this claim from the Israeli Prime Minister.
When this strike was carried out, they released a statement saying that only they would be authorized to confirm or deny news of this significance.
Mohammed Sinwar was one of the architects of Hamas' October 7th massacre in Israel, as well as the kidnapping of more than 250 Israelis, who today, 58
of them are marking 600 days now of captivity.
[14:05:00]
One of the key questions is what Mohammed Sinwar's death now means for the war. Sinwar's killing certainly gives the Israeli Prime Minister something
to tout as kind of a symbol of victory here, and we will see whether or not that impacts those ceasefire and hostage release negotiations, and Israel's
willingness to agree to a temporary ceasefire here.
There are questions about how Sinwar's death, if the Israeli Prime Minister is to be believed here, how it will impact those negotiations. Because
while Sinwar was certainly viewed as a hard-line figure, someone who my sources have said has stood in the way of previous ceasefire and hostage
release negotiations, he was also the one who ultimately green-lit on the ground, the release of Edan Alexander, the Israeli-American.
And following that, Hamas very much hoped that, that would lead to negotiations to end the war in Gaza altogether. It was the day after Edan
Alexander was released that the Israeli military actually carried out this strike, which the Israeli Prime Minister now says has killed Mohammed
Sinwar.
So, a slew of questions here. And again, no official confirmation yet from Hamas itself. But the Israeli Prime Minister saying that Israel has killed
Hamas' de facto leader in Gaza, Mohammed Sinwar. Jeremy Diamond, CNN, Tel Aviv.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOARES: And Jeremy there, referencing the scenes there in Hostage Square. These are live images coming to us from Tel Aviv. Thousands, as you can see
there of protesters marking 600 days since the October the 7th attack, and what is now known, of course, as Hostage Square. You could see one of the
placards there, President Trump and the crisis in Gaza. Nobel, as in the Nobel Prize, is waiting.
Among the speakers, the former hostages released as part of a ceasefire deal with Hamas and relatives of some of those still held in Gaza. We're
seeing, of course, there's about 58 still held captive, living and dead. And we've seen protesters today blocking roads in Tel Aviv, gathering at
Hostage Square, trying to put pressure really on the Israeli government to make a deal with Hamas and return the remaining hostages.
The scenes coming to us right now from Tel Aviv. Of course, we'll keep an eye on those images and bring you any developments that come out of Tel
Aviv. I want to return to what we've heard today at the U.N., because a U.S. trauma surgeon, who has volunteered twice in Gaza, says we are losing
a generation before our eyes.
Dr. Feroze Sidhwa addressed the U.N. Security Council today, sharing some very disturbing details. Have a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FEROZE SIDHWA, U.S. TRAUMA SURGEON: Children died not because their injuries were unsurvivable, but because we lacked blood, antibiotics and
the most basic supplies that are readily available in any large hospital anywhere else in the world. I did not see or treat a single combatant
during my five weeks in Gaza.
My patients were six-year-olds with shrapnels in their heart and bullets in their brains, and pregnant women whose pelvises had been obliterated and
their fetuses cut in two while still in the womb. Mothers sheltering in the hospital cooked bread on hot plates in the emergency department during mass
casualty events, as we dealt with the rain of fire and death falling around us everywhere.
Mr. President, the foundations of life in Gaza, family, health and community have been shattered. The medical system has not failed. It has
been systematically dismantled through a sustained military campaign that has willfully violated international humanitarian law.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Well, the Palestinian ambassador to the U.N. also addressed the Security Council, asking how much more suffering they need to see before
they decide to act. Riyad Mansour broke down as he talked about all the children who have been killed, saying the mind cannot comprehend in the
heart, cannot withstand the horrors. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RIYAD MANSOUR, PALESTINIAN AMBASSADOR TO U.N.: Since Israel broke the ceasefire in March, over 1,300 Palestinian children have been killed, and
around 4,000 have been injured. These are children. Children. And still a war against barbarism. Children. Dozens of children are dying of
starvation. The images of mothers embracing their motionless bodies, caressing their hair, talking to them, apologizing to them.
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Is unbearable. How could anyone tolerate this horror?
(RIYAD MANSOUR SOBBING)
MANSOUR: Excuse me, Mr. President, I have grandchildren. I know what they mean to their families. And to see this situation of the Palestinians
without us having hearts to do something is beyond the ability of any normal human being to tolerate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Well, and at the same time, at the same meeting, the Israeli ambassador to the U.N. hit back at those who claim Israel is committing
genocide in Gaza.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DANNY DANON, ISRAELI AMBASSADOR TO THE U.N.: That is what happens when terms like genocide are thrown around like political weapons, stripped of
meaning and used to demonize Jews. This council has become a megaphone for that hate, a place where the worst actors in the international system used
the banner of justice to justify violence.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Israel's U.N. ambassador there. I want to turn now to the United States, because President Donald Trump says the U.S. is getting very close
to a deal to keep Iran from developing nuclear weapons. He said a final deal could be reached in the next few weeks, and that he expects it to
include the return of inspectors to verify Iran's compliance.
President Trump also says he warned Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu that now is now the time -- not the time, I should say, to
disrupt negotiations. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Back on Iran, did you warn Prime Minister Netanyahu against taking some sort of actions that could disrupt the talks there in a
phone call last week?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, I'd like to be honest, yes, I did. Next question, please. It's not a warning. I said I don't think
it's appropriate.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What exactly did you tell him? Did you talk to him?
TRUMP: I just said, I don't think it's appropriate. We're talking -- we're having a very good discussions with them, and I said I don't think it's
appropriate right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: And we reported last week that the U.S. had obtained Intelligence suggesting Israel was weighing a strike, if you remember, on
Iranian nuclear sites. I want to bring in CNN's chief national security correspondent Alex Marquardt with more. And Alex, this really -- what we
heard from the President and what just over an hour ago really confirms reports that have been circulating for some time, whether that he did tell
Netanyahu not to carry out a unilateral strike on Iran.
Tell us what more you understood from what he said and what kind of -- what that suggests about the relationship between Netanyahu and President Trump,
because there seems to be a growing chasm here between both.
ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: There does, not just on the Iran front, but on the Gaza front as well --
SOARES: Yes --
MARQUARDT: And you could see from the President's reaction there when he got that question, he didn't really want to get into it. He tried to move
on, and then the reporters thankfully pressed him further. This is kind of an evergreen story, Isa. This is something that we've been reporting on for
months. We had an article out several months ago that talked about the Israeli planning for bombing Iran.
There is a general consensus that not only does Israel want to bomb Iran, because it is historically weak. Remember, Israel has taken out a lot of
Iran's air defense systems that leaves them extremely vulnerable. But that Israel can't do it by themselves. Yes, they could target Iran's nuclear
facilities, but they wouldn't be able to decimate them. They wouldn't be able to completely take them out.
They need American support for that. And so far, the President Donald Trump has not shown any willingness to join Israel in that effort. This
administration is trying to focus on a diplomatic solution. We have now seen five rounds of talks between Steve Witkoff and the Iranian Foreign
Minister Abbas Araghchi, both in Oman as well as in Rome, the most recent one was last Friday.
But what's also been very interesting is that on the sidelines of several of these talks, and in the background dating back to when they started in
April, you have the Israelis continuing to pressure the Trump administration to essentially not fall into a trap that would continue --
that would allow Iran to continue enrichment.
Israel has a very Maximalist approach to this, that Iran cannot enrich anything that their nuclear program needs to be completely dismantled.
Netanyahu dispatched his top aide, Ron Dermer, to Rome on Friday when Witkoff was already there for the talks with Iran. And then Dermer then
followed him back here to the United States and was here in Washington just yesterday.
So, the Israelis are putting a huge amount of pressure on the Trump administration, but here we have President Trump saying, basically, we
understand that the Israelis want to bomb Iran, but that for right now, it would be extremely disruptive to the talks, and that they shouldn't go
through with it, Isa.
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SOARES: We shall see what we get out of the Netanyahu camp. Thank you very much indeed, Alex, for laying it all out for us. Now, Ukrainian President
Zelenskyy is visiting Germany, details ahead on what he and the chancellor have agreed on. We'll have the latest, of course, on Russia-Ukraine peace
talks. President Trump says Harvard, quote, "better behave themselves". How both sides are digging in and preparing for long fight. Both of those
stories after this short break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: Now, to Berlin, where Germany and Ukraine's leaders are strengthening their alliance. German Chancellor Friedrich Merz has
announced the joint production of long-range weapons inside Ukraine, and this comes after the Kremlin slammed what it calls a dangerous decision by
Ukraine's allies to lift the ban on Kyiv firing these types of weapons really into Russia.
Meanwhile, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy says his Defense Minister spoke with a senior Russian negotiator. A short time later, Russia
announced a new proposal with a possible date as well as venue for the next round of peace talks. For his part, U.S. President Donald Trump has a new
deadline for his Russian counterpart, Vladimir Putin. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you still believe that Putin actually wants to end the war?
TRUMP: I can't tell you that, but I'll let you know in about two weeks, within two weeks, we're going to find out very soon. We're going to find
out whether or not he's tapping us along or not. And if he is, we'll respond a little bit differently.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Well, let's get more on all these. Jan Philipp Burgard is editor- in-chief of the German news channel "WELT TV", he joins me live from Hamburg. Jean, great to have you back on the show. The top line today from
this side, maybe you can correct me, was this announcement by the chancellor to fund Ukrainian-made long-range missiles that can hit targets
inside Russia, with of course, no range limits.
But then, the chancellor kind of dodged, from what I heard, dodge some questions over the Taurus missiles, whether they were part of this. Why is
the chancellor unwilling to go there? Did you get clarity on whether the Taurus are part of this?
JAN PHILIPP BURGARD, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, WELT TV: Yes, Isa, I think the refusal to deliver Taurus is just the result of the resistance of the
coalition of Friedrich Merz. He is in a coalition with the social democrats, with the SPD, and they are absolutely -- yes, refusing to
deliver Taurus.
[14:20:00]
And he doesn't get any further. But let's have a bigger picture. What I witnessed today was a chancellor breaking clearly with the policies of his
predecessor, Olaf Scholz, and stepping into a true leadership role in Europe, made several concrete pledges to President Zelenskyy, the most
significant being a declaration of intent to jointly produce and deliver long-range weapon systems. You mentioned that.
And furthermore, the German government has committed an additional 5 billion euros in military aid to Ukraine. According to exclusive
information of our "Welt" investigative team. Part of this deal includes funding for Ukrainian long-range drones, specifically the BRAS and AN-196
models, as well as drones of the flamingo type.
And yet, I think Zelenskyy likely left Berlin with mixed feelings. Ukrainian diplomats told me what was proposed today won't be a game-changer
on the battlefield.
SOARES: Yes, that must somehow be disappointing. But let me pick on what you said, pick up on what you said, Jan. And this is the tone and the shift
we are seeing from the new chancellor. Certainly, a more assertive tone and assertive position from Chancellor Merz when compared to Olaf Scholz. Why
now? Speak to the shift.
BURGARD: Yes, Merz has always made clear that he is standing behind Ukraine. And if you listened to him today in the press conference, you
could feel that he means what he says. He really thanked President Zelenskyy and the Ukrainian military for defending not only themselves, but
in defending entire Europe, and for Germany's security, it's crucially important that Ukraine doesn't fall.
SOARES: Now, we heard today, Jan, from the Kremlin spokesperson, who has responded to this meeting between President Zelenskyy and Chancellor Merz.
And he said this, I want to read it out. "I would rather say that this is an entirely irresponsible position of Germany instead of trying to support
a peaceful process, they are putting fuel on the flame, and they are simply trying to provoke further war, thus increasing their indirect involvement
in this military affair."
So, this is Dmitry Peskov, the Kremlin spokesperson, clearly trying, it seems, Jan, to undermine the chancellor. But how would these remarks and
the decision to lift the restrictions on these long-range missiles be received in Germany? Because I remember there was some nervousness a while
back regarding these longer-range missiles.
BURGARD: Yes, I think the new Chancellor Friedrich Merz has nerves of steel, and he won't be impressed by that. In the opposite, and we should
have a closer look at the second reaction of the Kremlin today, because all of a sudden, after they expressed their anger, Moscow all of a sudden
proposed new direct talks between Russia and Ukraine in Istanbul.
And I think this timing is no coincidence. It happened right after the press conference. And during this press conference, Chancellor Merz had
made it clear that Russia's refusal to engage in negotiations would now carry real consequences. That was what he said, literally. And it seems the
Kremlin didn't take that message of the German chancellor lightly.
SOARES: Right, it seems certainly that he's pinned his colors to the mast, that is for sure. Thank you very much, Jan, really appreciate you coming on
the show and giving us your insight. Thank you very much, live from Hamburg.
BURGARD: Thank you for having me, Isa.
SOARES: You're very welcome --
BURGARD: Thank you. I want to turn now to a trial that has shaken France. A court in Vannes found a retired surgeon guilty of raping and sexually
assaulting hundreds of his patients, many of them children over a span of 25 years. Joel Le Scouarrnec was sentenced to 20 years in prison, the
maximum allowed for abusing nearly 300 victims, some while they were under anesthesia. Dozens of victims, their relatives and campaigners gathered
outside the courtroom.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FRANCESCA SATTA, LAWYER FOR SEVERAL VICTIMS (through translator): Twenty years is not long. Twenty years is not long considering the number of
victims we had in this trial. It's time for the texts to change and for us to be able to have a sentence more suited to the exceptional nature of this
trial. And that's the regret we have today. But we couldn't have gone beyond the texts in any case.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Well, anger is growing over how Le Scouarnec continued to work in public hospitals despite a 200 -- 2005 conviction for downloading images of
child sexual abuse. Authorities have now launched an investigation into possible systemic failures. We'll stay across that story for you. And
turning now to the U.K., where the crown prosecution service has confirmed that it has authorized charges including rape and human trafficking against
Andrew Tate and his brother Tristan.
[14:25:00]
Well, authorities say Tristan faces 11 charges linked to one alleged victim, while Andrew faces 10 charges involving three alleged victims.
British police executed an arrest warrant in 2024, even as the brothers were already under investigation if you remember in Romania for similar
offenses. Both men have denied all allegations.
And still to come tonight, President Trump doubles down on his attacks on Harvard. His call for a cap on the number of foreign students at the
school. We get your sense of how students are reacting next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: Welcome back, everyone. On a day that would normally be all about celebrating graduation -- graduating students, Harvard is sending a clear
message to the White House that it won't back down. At this hour, the elite Ivy league school is holding class day activities, an annual event held
before commencement.
Four months into his term, President Donald Trump has relentlessly targeted America's oldest and most distinguished university, as his administration
presses colleges across America to adopt policies aligned with its politics. Earlier in the last hour or so, he suggested Harvard should have
a 15 percent cap on foreign students.
And the White House is demanding the names as well as countries of origin of the thousands of international students currently at the school. This is
what the President said earlier.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We want to know where those students come -- are they troublemakers? What countries do they come? And we're not going to -- if somebody is
coming from a certain country and they're 100 percent fine, which I hope most of them are, but many of them won't be. You're going to see some very
radical people. They're taking people from areas of the world that are very radicalized, and we don't want them making trouble in our country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[14:30:00]
SOARES: Well, on top of the recent federal cuts of more than two and a half billion dollars, as you can see there, the president has threatened to
cancel government contracts totaling a hundred million dollars. He's issued a threat to cancel $3 billion in grants, and the State Department is
ordering U.S. embassies to pause new student visas.
Well, one Harvard International student told us those moves could have long-term implications. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEO GERDEN, HARVARD UNIVERSITY INTERNATIONAL STUDENT: I think Trump is going to make new threats and say new things every day, but we simply have
to stay focused. We're going to fight this with all means that we have, whether it's the funding, but I think especially what is hitting the
hardest right now at the heart of this community, it is the threat to essentially deport all international students. Because without this
international student body, then Harvard is not Harvard anymore.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Now, I'm joined by CNN's Nada Bashir who's across this. And I know, Nada, that you and your team have been speaking to international students,
those who are applying -- who have been accepted to go into Harvard. And you know, I spoke to that student who was in final year, who's from Sweden.
And he really conveyed the anxiety that so many are currently feeling. Give us a sense of what you've been hearing.
NADA BASHIR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So, there's a lot of anxiety and a lot of fear about what is being said and what is being shared on social media
around this particular issue given these new pauses that have been announced on visa interviews for international students hoping to apply to
U.S. colleges and universities.
And of course, Harvard has been the focus of this new hostile policy by the Trump administration, but it has now, of course, expanded to all colleges
and universities in the United States. According to a State Department cable, which CNN has seen, which has been instructed to all embassies and
consulates across the globe, visa appointments, visa interviews for international students hoping to enroll at U.S. colleges either in August
or September, so just in a couple of months really, have been paused and there has been no guidance given to these students as to when they might
expect to have their visa appointments reinstated.
According to this diplomatic cable, this decision has been taken by the State Department to expand media vetting for applicants. But again --
SOARES: What does that mean?
BASHIR: There's no clarity on what exactly that means, on what sort of posts might pose a problem for applicants applying to U.S. universities.
And of course, as you mentioned, this has really increased fear and anxiety for many students.
We spoke to one prospective student who has a place at Columbia Journalism School to enroll in August, now doesn't know whether she will get a visa
appointment. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ADEFEMOLA AKINTADE, ACCEPTED TO INCOMING COLUMBIA JOURNALISM SCHOOL CLASS AND REPORTER, PEOPLE'S GAZETTE: I was blank for some seconds. I didn't know
what to think. And then it's so close, like palpable. I can almost feel it. And then, it's yet so far. I don't know what to do. This is what I always
wanted for the long years of times. I don't have any backup plan. You know, I cooked all my eggs in one basket in Columbia.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Nerve-racking.
BASHIR: So, of course, there is that real anxiety for many, many students, particularly around the lack of clarity and guidance given by the State
Department with regards to what exactly counts as a problematic social media post.
SOARES: And I'm speaking -- I was speaking to Maddie, your producer earlier on, as I bumped turned the corridor, and I -- you know, she mentioned, I
thought it was really interesting, that some of the students were even wary to actually come on camera and talk about that because they're worried
about what the social media vetting would be and how that would be used. That is frightful to be in that situation.
BASHIR: Absolutely. We've been reaching out to countless students today, many of them told us they wouldn't appear on camera for fear. That they
could then be negatively impacted and their applications might be revoked or visas refused as a result. So, there's questions as to whether we're
talking about criticism of the Trump administration, whether it's particular foreign policy areas perhaps.
We know, of course, that there have been students who feel that they have been targeted in the U.S. and perhaps denied visas or potentially even
threatened with deportation for posting or taking part in activities around their opposition to the war in Gaza. So, that has been a huge focus as
well, and questions around the timing of this decision taken by the Trump administration. And then, of course, there's the whole issue around Harvard
University, the revocation of crucial funding.
SOARES: Yes.
BASHIR: And of course, important to remember that we are talking about a huge portion of students that are being impacted, more than 1.1 million of
students were enrolled, foreign students were involved in the 2023 to '24 school year. So, we're talking about a significant portion of students. And
of course, many of the universities in the U.S. rely on that foreign tuition.
SOARES: Yes. And not just the wealth in terms of financial, but also, the wealth of knowledge that they all share. I think that is fundamental. And,
Nada, we'll be back in the next hour with the report. Thank you very much. Nada Bashir there.
Well, let's get more on this story. Joining us now to discuss a Trump administration's standoff with Harvard is CNN Senior national security
analyst and Harvard professor Juliette Kayyem. Juliette, really appreciate you taking the time to speak to us about this battle that we have been
reporting here between the Trump administration and Harvard. A feud that really started with this president now is escalating rather rapidly.
[14:35:00]
You are a professor at Harvard. A former Harvard alumni. Give me your reaction to what we have been seeing. And we heard from the president the
last hour. Just give me your sense of how this is all playing out.
JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: I mean, it's real. I mean, in the sense that I've been at this institution as a student or as a
professor for several decades. You know, I just was on campus yesterday, today is class day. Our Christiane Amanpour is speaking at the Kennedy
School in a few hours.
And so, I mean, you get this sense that like everyone is sort of talking about it, but no one has any answer. And I think part of that is because
there's litigation which Harvard has sued the Trump administration on two different fronts. Trump keeps changing his mind. So, this -- you know, in a
few hours ago, he says, well, I don't mean everyone. I mean, 15 percent of students should be international, which would just mean that the White
House would control admissions policy, which they can't do for a private institution. And then, of course, the students.
I teach at a school that is close to 50 or about 50 percent international students. The goal of the Kennedy School and Public Policy is that
throughout the world -- the world benefits by good governance around the world. And so, for even someone like me, I don't get research grants in the
sense like what the doctors and the scientists do. I mean, I'm looking at a potential, you know, half of my class not being there in just a few weeks
or months.
So, we don't have any answers. The school's been sending out e-mails just saying, you know, sort of hold tight. We will continue to inform you. And
at the same time, try to give assurances. What people can't forget is that there's present international students who are between years one and two or
two and three, depending on what school they're at, that this new directive by Trump impacts, are they coming back to finish their degree in the second
or third year?
SOARES: Yes, and this is something I spoke -- I spoke to a student from Sweden just on Friday about this, and he's just so anxious and so nervous
about what that will mean, not just for him, but also for prospective students. As you heard there from our Nada Bashir who's also had a
conversation with a student from Nigeria.
I mean, you know, we are now hearing the administration is pausing these new student visa appointments. I understand there'll be social media
vetting to bar kind of international students. I don't even know what social media vetting is, what is -- what they'll be looking for. But this
must be a huge source of anxiety. Speak to what you are hearing from students, what are they telling you, what are they asking you, Juliette?
KAYYEM: Yes. Yes. So, I mean, as I say, I'm your faculty member, but I can also be your mother, because a lot of them just don't even know should they
travel, you know, what kind of interactions should they have with the border? A lot of them have jobs abroad, back home and in between the
academic years for the summer and then should they come back. And so, you know, I basically tell students, you know, what's your risk tolerance?
Because it's not without risk so far.
But I do want to sort of give the counter side. I can't speak for every faculty member and staff, we're a big institution. But it does feel
different and also a beneficial way. I think for last year with the Israeli-Hamas war where everyone was sort of narrating about the
university, I think people are really behind President Alan Garber and the administration. Behind -- well, at least, for asserting our equities.
And they aren't just Harvard equities. As we all know, the attack on Harvard is sort of performative. It is -- everyone knows Harvard. And --
but it's going to impact all these other schools. This new Marco Rubio directive about stopping all student visa. Well, that impacts Harvard, but
it also impacts a lot of state schools, a lot of schools in red states. It's not just sort of Massachusetts and liberal Harvard.
And the money issue, which is impacting my colleagues, we say across the river, the scientist and those who are doing scientific and medical
research. You know, people think, oh, it's a gift. It's not a gift, it's a contract. It's a -- the government believes, and we have the record to
prove it, that this kind of support of academic research and clinical research actually saves lives. We have the numbers. We know what the cancer
research does, all of those issues.
And so, the idea that this is just the government being nice and now, it's not going to be nice, is the gap is most Americans will be harmed by this.
And we have to make our case about what Harvard means for the rest of the country as well as the world and hope that we can stabilize this so that we
can benefit from the international students that come. I learn a lot from them as I hope that they learn from their American students.
SOARES: Well, it seems that at Harvard, their sense of unity at Harvard and Harvard is fighting it out. Juliette, really appreciate you taking the time
to speak to us on this. Thank you, Juliette.
KAYYEM: Thank you. Going off to graduation.
[14:40:00]
SOARES: Good luck. Enjoy. And still to come tonight, a memoir that touches on family trauma, mental illness, and hope. Journalist James Longman joins
our book, love with "The Inherited Mind." That's just ahead.
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(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SOARES: Joining us on the Book Club this month is James Longman, the author of "The Inherited Mind." James, welcome to the show. And as you can see,
lots of notes here that I've been taking. And it's a fascinating, fascinating book, really intimate, really honest and compelling. And it
kind of explores your journey, your family's journey through mental illness, through trauma. There is -- there are elements of hope too.
But you know, as I started reading this, I thought to myself, why write it now? You know, because you're relatively young.
JAMES LONGMAN, AUTHOR, "THE INHERITED MIND": I originally did a documentary back in 2016 about this issue on my father, his schizophrenia. The
schizophrenia that other members of my family have had and his suicide. And I stayed in touch with the scientists, and they've just been doing the work
ever since. So, I was really keen to try and get their information out there.
And there's so much talk these days of mental health. People are really keen to talk about mental health, which I think is wonderful. But there's a
big distinction between mental health and mental illness. And I don't feel in public discourse yet we're making enough of a differentiation between
those two things.
SOARES: And we'll get to that in just a moment. You mentioned your father there, but you also have your uncle, your grandfather as well also
suffered. Just so just give us a bit of the history in your family.
LONGMAN: So, my father had schizophrenia and he ended his life when I was nine. His brother also had schizophrenia. Their father, my grandfather also
ended his life, although, we're not clear on whether or not he had any diagnosis. My mother has clinical depression. And I have had two pretty
serious bouts of depression myself.
And so, it was that -- that was the fundamental premise of the book. Do I get sad, do I get depression because of the knowledge of this family
history or was there something deeper than that? Is it written in my code? Was this inevitable?
SOARES: How -- and then get, -- let's get to the crux of this, because you asked that question right at the beginning, how much of this is this
science? How much is this DNA? How much is this the environment around us?
[14:45:00]
LONGMAN: What I want people to understand is how those two -- what the interplay is on a biological level, that it's beyond a simple equation.
It's actually how our environments activate our genetic predispositions, and it's all around the world of epigenetics.
2 percent of our genetic code is the hardware. We are never going to be able to do anything about that code. But the other 98 percent is the
software. It's how those genes are activated or crucially deactivated, or at least turned down. It's the little chemicals that sit along our DNA,
which turn them up or turn them down like a dimmer switch.
And over that, you do have agency. So, your genetics do not have to be a prison which controls your life. Actually, what you do in your life can
change your genetic outcomes and those of your children, which I think is very important.
SOARES: We'll talk about your father in just a moment, but I kind of want to tap into your mother because you had a pretty kind of troubled and --
relationship with your mother right from the beginning. Did you learn something different about your mother that you didn't know prior to writing
this book?
LONGMAN: I learned so much about her. I set out to find out about my dad and what I did was actually find out a lot more about my mom.
SOARES: Yes.
LONGMAN: I start the book -- and I'm so happy that you've put your finger on that, because my major concern with this book was casting my mom as some
evil villain, and I didn't want to do that because family is complicated and I love her and she loves me. We still have a very difficult
relationship. But she also writes a chapter of the book, because it was important for me to get multiple perspectives, because there's what happens
in a family and there's what people say happens, and often the latter becomes more important. The law becomes the truth.
I found out how they met, how they -- what their courtship was like, what it was like for a woman to be married to a man who had schizophrenia, to go
to the hospital three months after I was born. And he tried to end his life and she's there with -- breastfeeding me with her husband on his deathbed.
I think that's one of the big lessons if there is a one from the book, is that when things happen in your life, it's not in your power to fix them,
but it is in your power to change how you respond to them. And writing the book has helped me do that with my mom.
SOARES: Your father. Let's talk about your father, because talking about images, the image you had before you actually knew much about him. You had
his clinical records, 120 pages of them. And you say in the book, kind of looked up to him, right? He's a hero. What did you learn? I mean, first of
all, reading through these medical records, very hard to read some of them. The detail is astounding.
LONGMAN: What I found was it painted a picture of a man who basically did not want to take his medication. And it put meat on the bone of my
understanding of schizophrenia and how a person with it, like my father, knew he was ill, but tried his hardest to be well, and --
SOARES: But he also tried to understand what was wrong with him.
LONGMAN: What was wrong with him --
SOARES: For his condition, right?
LONGMAN: Yes. With schizophrenia, it's -- well, with his, anyway, and it can be quite common among people who have schizophrenia, there's a sense
that there's a question they need to answer. And they're fascinated about this question and they've got to get to the heart of it.
My father was always trying to find the answers. And the issue with schizophrenia often is there are lithium-based drugs and those medications
can really dull your mind. And they stop you thinking. I would say that my father's mental illness was part of his creativity. He was an artist and he
loved doing what he did. He was a painter. And he felt he couldn't paint when he was on the drugs. And somehow -- and sometimes when he was
painting, he could -- he was kind of triggering maybe some of his illness, but it felt good to him at times. It's so complicated to understand what
it's like actually living with one of these illnesses.
SOARES: You have a -- right at the end of the book you talk about the lesson -- a lesson for everyone. It is a very hopeful book and what people
can take away from it. All I can -- so, all I can say to you, you write, if you are struggling right now, is this, ask for help and you'll find
kindness in all around you. Even if it seems hidden right now. The sadness you're experiencing may feel like it runs in your blood, but the answers to
feeling happy again are swirling in there too. You may carry a problem, you also carry the solution. That's the lesson to take away for readers.
What did you -- I mean, what do you take away?
LONGMAN: Well, the lesson about my father's illness was that there were a lot of people in his life who decided for him what was better for him, and
actually, if they'd listened to him, it might have been easier. And I think -- so trying to fix other people is never going to work. What you have to
do is walk with them through whatever they're dealing with. The lesson for me from the book is kindness is king.
SOARES: Yes. DNA may be written, but you've got everything else around you to shape that. James, really appreciate you coming in. I've left you a
little pen there for you, for you to sign. If you do a signing your book.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOARES: And I agree with him. kindness is king. Something to live by. And our next edition of our Book Club, Sarah Hoover joins me with her memoir,
"The Motherload: Episodes from the Brink of Motherhood" in a frank and at times very funny conversation. She tells me every experience with
postpartum. Here's a clip.
[14:50:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SARAH HOOVER, AUTHOR, "THE MOTHERLOAD": I wrote the book that I wished I had when I was going through it, and I remember feeling so lonely and
ashamed of myself in my darkest moments and combing the internet and reading every book I could find where a woman had this sort of experience
after she had a baby. And not really reading anything that resonated with me or made me feel seen, and I know that I would have felt so much less
alone had I known that so many aspects of my experience are fairly universal, are totally normal, are fixable, that there's hope.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: A really good conversation there with Sarah Hoover. You do not want to miss. And still to come tonight, part of my interview with Sarah Jessica
Parker. "The Sex and the City" actress has produced a documentary about librarians fighting book bans in the U.S. She discusses why libraries were
so important for her growing up and why they're beacons in many communities. That's next.
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SOARES: Well, she's had many roles in film credits, but when you hear the name Sarah Jessica Parker, there's probably one character that stands out
above the rest, and that is of course, Carrie Bradshaw. Parker portrayed the newspaper columnist for six seasons on HBO, "Sex and the City," and
she's reprised the role in "Just Like That," which is about to release its third season on Max.
Parker is also an incredible TV and film producer. I recently spoke with her about a documentary, "The Librarians," which looks into librarians
fighting U.S. book bans. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SARAH JESSICA PARKER, EXECUTIVE PRODUCER, "THE LIBRARIANS": Many people in this country, including me, were raised in libraries and they're not just
buildings with shelves, they are sanctuaries of possibility. And there are connection to, for many people, Wi-Fi the opportunity to apply for jobs, to
learn languages, to reach information. They are the gateway to compassion and empathy and curiosity, but they are also beacons in neighborhoods.
They are warm in the winter and cool in the summer, and they are places for us to grow, to enrich our lives, to be educated, and they are free. And the
idea of taking that away, A, cutting funding and making libraries almost -- making it impossible for them to stay open and serve their communities, but
to take books away, to suggest that someone else's opinion should be my opinion is just fundamentally -- it's counter, it's anathema to who we are
as Americans.
[14:55:00]
We're a country based on new ideas, exciting, open to others, embracing the hardest conversations to arrive at our best selves.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: And of course, we'll have much more of my interview with Sarah Jessica Parker coming up in the next hour.
Now, it's being called the real-life "Sister Act." Two Brazilian nuns have gone viral for beatbox dance performance on TV. Have a look at this.
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(MUSIC PLAYING)
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SOARES: I just want to continue listening to this. Sisters Marisa de Paula and Marizele Cassiano was speaking on a Catholic television program. During
the conversation, the topic of music came up. The nun said it -- say while it may not be traditional beatboxing and dancing a quote, "tools of God's."
She's actually far much better than me in fact.
That does it for tonight. Thanks very much. Do stay right here. I'll be back with "What We Know Next."
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[15:00:00]
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