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Isa Soares Tonight
Israel Approves Massive West Bank Settlement Expansion; Trump Tariffs Dominate The Astana International Forum; Court Blocks Trump From Imposing The Bulk Of His Tariffs; Israel Approves U.S. Ceasefire Proposal; Croatian Minister Talks Trump Trade War; The Future Of Ukraine's Minerals; Tariffs, Global Conflicts Adding To Economic Uncertainty. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired May 29, 2025 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00]
ISA SOARES, CO-HOST, ISA SOARES TONIGHT: A very warm welcome to the show, everyone, I'm Isa Soares in London. Tonight, Israel approves the biggest
expansion of settlements in the West Bank in decades as aid distribution in Gaza remains under pressure. We'll have the very latest for you.
MAX FOSTER, CO-HOST, ISA SOARES TONIGHT: And I'm Max Foster in Astana, Kazakhstan, where diplomacy -- unrest and diplomacy trade all big talking
points at the Astana International Forum. I'll be speaking to Croatia's Economy Minister after a U.S. court rules on Donald Trump's tariffs.
SOARES: But first, tonight, economic reverberations are being felt around the world tonight after U.S. judicial panel dealt a stunning blow to the
very centerpiece of President Donald Trump's agenda that Max was referring there. The U.S. Court of International Trade blocked most of the
President's sweeping global tariffs, ruling that he overstepped his authority by imposing those levies.
A D.C. District Court made a similar ruling just a short time ago at the heart of the tariff push-back at the five small businesses that challenged
them, including a New York-based family wine company, a Pennsylvania fishing tackle retailer, and the first business to focus solely on women's
cycling, and it may just be the beginning.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS SOUTHWORTH, SECRETARY GENERAL, INTERNATIONAL CHAMBER OF COMMERCE, UNITED KINGDOM: We're moving into a different phase of the tariffs on
Liberation Day, where we're starting to see legal challenges coming in from the U.S., that's really interesting, particularly coming from the five
small companies who are making the legal challenge. This has the potential to really open up the floodgates for all sorts of legal challenges.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Well, the administration is appealing the ruling and vows to take the case to the U.S. Supreme Court. The White House had this reaction just
in the last hour.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: There is an effort by this administration to tackle these rogue judges and the injunctions and the
blockades that we have faced in our broken judicial system in every case. I mean, we have seen time and time again, these lower district court judges'
ruling against this administration in the President's basic executive authority and powers, and this administration is fighting every single one
of those battles in court.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Let's get more now from our senior White House reporter Betsy Klein. And Betsy, not just one black eye for this administration. It seems
two. I'm seeing now a U.S. district court judge has also said that the Trump administration lacks authority to levy tariffs with emergency powers.
Just talk us through what we've heard today, and in the last 24 hours or so, and what will mean -- what will this mean, of course, for businesses
and how the President may respond to this?
BETSY KLEIN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Well, certainly, we have seen President Trump in the first several months of his second term, take steps
to really transform the U.S. and the global economy more broadly. But last night, starting with that ruling, we have seen courts step in and
potentially transform President Trump's economic agenda.
So, last night, we saw that three-judge panel including one judge that was appointed by Trump during his first term on the U.S. Court of International
Trade rule in blocking Trump's global tariffs. Now, that includes the so- called Liberation Day tariffs he imposed, as well as the 10 percent universal tariff across the board, and also tariffs aimed at cracking down
on fentanyl.
Now, the Trump administration has immediately appealed this ruling, and they are really pulling from a familiar playbook of attacking judges.
Stephen Miller; the President's deputy Chief of Staff and a top aide, called it a judicial coup, others call it judicial activism. But there has
been so much uncertainty in the economy, and this certainly isn't easing any of that.
But there are really two major questions going forward. Number one, what happens to the trade deals that are currently being negotiated? Some of
those were set to be unveiled as soon as this week. Do they proceed forward? Trump administration officials are telling their counterparts that
they want to continue as though this ruling did not happen.
[14:05:00]
And second, what happens to President Trump's so-called one Big Beautiful Bill? That bill has passed the House and has not yet passed the Senate, but
it really depended on the revenue from these tariffs to offset some of the tax-cuts that were promised. Now, Karoline Leavitt; the President's Press
Secretary said moments ago, the White House believes they are on strong legal footing.
They plan to comply with the court's orders. She also said she believes the courts should have no role. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEAVITT: Three judges of the U.S. Court of International Trade disagreed and brazenly abused their judicial power to usurp the authority of
President Trump to stop him from carrying out the mandate that the American people gave him. These judges failed to acknowledge that the President of
the United States has core foreign affairs powers and authority given to him by Congress to protect the United States economy and national security.
The courts should have no role here. There is a troubling and dangerous trend of unelected judges inserting themselves into the presidential
decision-making process.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KLEIN: Now, the court said in its ruling that there are other measures Trump can take other tools to impose tariffs, but the President's top
economic adviser Kevin Hassett says that they are -- they believe they are confident they can win this in court and aren't pursuing those alternatives
for now. The White House is hoping that this appeals process goes all the way to the Supreme Court.
SOARES: And Betsy, we have seen the impact of this roller-coaster, of course, of on-and-off tariffs on the stock markets. One man who has had to
deal with this is the Fed Chair Jerome Powell. He -- I understand has made a private visit to the White House. He was also the man who has faced a
huge amount of criticism from the President.
He called him a fool, a major loser, even -- but once saying cannot come fast enough. What do we know about this meeting between Powell and the
President at the White House today?
KLEIN: Well, certainly, the relationship between these two men could not be more contentious, at least, publicly, President Trump has lashed out at
Powell personally and in professional terms. The Federal Reserve said in a statement, quote, "Chair Powell did not discuss his expectations for
monetary policy except to stress that the path of policy will depend entirely on incoming economic information, and what that means for the
outlook."
Now, of course, President Trump has said that Powell isn't doing enough to lower interest rates, and not doing so fast enough. So, certainly that
criticism came up. According to Karoline Leavitt, it's something that has been raised publicly and now privately. But this marks the first in-person
meeting between these two of President Trump's second term. Certainly, a closely-watched meeting.
SOARES: Indeed, Betsy, thank you very much indeed. Betsy Klein there at the White House.
FOSTER: Isa, so imagine hearing all of that ups and downs in New York and Washington, when business leaders and world leaders are meeting here in
Astana, trying to figure out how they're going to move forward and make investments. So, they all -- most countries have some sort of relationship
with the United States, and now they're trying to figure out what that relationship will be, because they're also negotiating trade deals when
they can as well.
So, Hanako Montgomery has been -- you held a panel today, you've been speaking to the various people here. I mean, they can't really make sense
of it, can they? Because it's completely out of their control. But what about the -- you know, this latest step? What difference does that make?
HANAKO MONTGOMERY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Max, I mean, I think this latest step is really just escalating that uncertainty, right? I mean, we still
have no idea how businesses will respond, whether companies will keep prices up, how consumers will be affected by this latest development in
this tariff war that we're seeing unfolding in very real time.
Also, we have to mention that billions of dollars have already been spent in tariffs, right? And what does that mean? I mean, will we see that money
come back? How will that money be played out in the future? And also, I think, Max, there's been a bigger question here that's been discussed at
this forum, one of which is really just about which camp individuals are related to, which camp they belong to in terms of how effective Trump's
tariff policy will be.
There are some individuals who think that Trump's tariff plans -- I mean, even though it hurts now, it's just a temporary pain, right?
FOSTER: Yes --
MONTGOMERY: Six months down the line, companies will move back to the United States. America will be, quote, "great again", and we'll see
business booming in the United States. Others say that actually it has been hugely disruptive for the world economy. In fact, here's what a lot of
individuals said today about the state of the world trade and economy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LARS-HENDRIK ROLLER, FOUNDER & CHAIR, BERLIN GLOBAL DIALOGUE: We have global problems. Nobody alone can solve that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And that's why we exist --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Especially with the challenges we're facing globally.
ANTE SUSNJAR, ECONOMY MINISTER, CROATIA: We are asking for the U.S. side, for de-escalation of this -- let's -- so-called tariff war.
AMY POPE, DIRECTOR-GENERAL, INTERNATIONAL ORGANIZATION FOR MIGRATION: Our biggest challenge at the moment is, frankly, resources. It's of course, the
United States has cut back a lot of its humanitarian support, but they're not the only one.
ROLLER: Let's work together, and let's not have zero-sum. Let's try and look for win-win situations, because I don't think in the end, this is
going to be the good world I want to live in.
[14:10:00]
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And that's part of why we're here at this forum, in this region in particular.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MONTGOMERY: And I mean, lots of themes discussed there, Max. But I think really what's really important here is the fact that for many years, the
U.S. has been establishing its reputation as one of a reputable and reliable trade partner, but now allies in Asia and Europe look to the
United States, and all they really see is uncertainty.
FOSTER: Yes, it's interesting because there are countries represented here who seem to be almost benefiting from that, because it was a safe haven,
somewhere to put your money, you know, when there's risk in the world, the United States. But now, the United States becomes the risk, and now they're
looking where else they can invest.
MONTGOMERY: Exactly, yes. And also, I think it's important to discuss the fact that Kazakhstan is a middle power, right?
FOSTER: Yes.
MONTGOMERY: And traditionally, bigger powers were known to do business with smaller countries to develop their infrastructures. Sustainability, for
example, work on other countries to solve some of the world's bigger issues, like climate change, geo-security risks --
FOSTER: Yes --
MONTGOMERY: For instance, the war in Ukraine. But now, we're seeing the U.S. wanting to do business with bigger powers, with bigger economies,
really looking inwards and seeing what benefits the United States, and not really considering other powers at play --
FOSTER: Yes --
MONTGOMERY: Here --
FOSTER: Hanako, thank you so much. Isa, I think what everyone's looking for is certainty. But again, that sort of disappeared again today, didn't it?
SOARES: Indeed, certainty and clarity is not the thing we're seeing right now. Well, on top of the fragile trade truce between Washington and
Beijing, the Trump administration now plans to quote, "aggressively revoke visas for Chinese students." Secretary of State Marco Rubio announced this
controversial decision just shortly after the State Department ordered a pause on all new student visa appointments worldwide.
The top U.S. diplomat claims this will target students who have connections to the Chinese Communist Party or, are quote, "studying in critical
fields." Beijing quickly condemned the move. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAO NING, SPOKESPERSON, FOREIGN AFFAIRS MINISTRY, CHINA (through translator): This politically-motivated and discriminatory action exposes
the lie of the so-called freedom and openness that the U.S. has always boasted, and will only further damage America's own international image and
credibility.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Well, about 275,000 students from China studied in the U.S. in the 2023/2024 academic year. And now, many are left feeling anxious, as you can
imagine about their academic future.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's pretty absurd. It doesn't seem like something that could happen now. During the day, I scrolled others reactions on
social media. People seemed quite anxious. Although my major isn't particularly sensitive, the visa process hasn't even started yet, and the
timeline is already quite tight since the school year begins in early August.
Now, with the situation and not knowing how long it will be suspended, I'm pretty worried.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Yes, well, in the middle of this uncertainty, Harvard University is seeing a major legal victory. A U.S. judge says she will order the
Department of Homeland Security and State Department to not make any changes to Harvard's student visa program. These details being hashed out
in a courtroom near today's graduation celebrations.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALAN GARBER, PRESIDENT, HARVARD UNIVERSITY: Welcome.
(APPLAUSE)
(CHEERS)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: And that thunderous applause welcoming in Harvard's President Alan Garber, who has been very much the public face of the school's fight
against the Trump administration. I want to bring in Katelyn Polantz, who has been across the story for us. And Katelyn, as you -- as you and I spoke
earlier in the week, this was as you told me, I remember clearly, a high stakes hearing.
Just walk us through what the judge has said and what this means for international students, because as we just heard from one there, there's
just so much anxiety and uncertainty right now.
KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN CRIME & JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Isa, right now, the bottom line is that the student visa program at Harvard University, it
stands in place as it is. Students who are international from more than 140 countries, 7,000 members of this student body, maybe a quarter of all of
Harvard's students, they are able to come to Harvard.
They are able to study here. And that attempt by the Trump administration to immediately suspend or revoke that program, that is all on hold
indefinitely. The judge was quite clear at a hearing this morning across town in Boston in federal court. The judge had a lot of concern, though,
that damage is already being done for the student body population of Harvard.
That there are students abroad going to embassies, wanting to come to the U.S., unable to get visas processed since last week. There was also some
discussion of fear that there would be shenanigans. That was the word of the Harvard lawyer in court.
[14:15:00]
But the judge's word was, I want to maintain the status quo here. So, that's what's going to happen going forward in this court proceeding. The
Trump administration coming into the court hearing, there was a lot of expectation. Six lawyers from Harvard in court, including one of the former
U.S. solicitor-generals to argue the case, real firepower on the legal side.
But the Justice Department, they were trying to diffuse things. They only had two lawyers come to court, one, a local attorney based in Boston, the
other one from the Justice Department, main justice. And so, when they were trying to diffuse things, they went to the judge and said, we don't need to
do anything right now. We can take 30 days and work it out with Harvard.
We can ask them for administrative responses to our demands. But that was not enough. This judge has made clear that she wants an order in place, a
court order that makes it so the Trump administration cannot change the student visa program at Harvard University. Something -- a great reprieve,
a win even for Harvard University on the day of its commencement. Isa?
SOARES: What does it mean then, going forward? I mean, how do you see the Trump administration proceeding? Because I can imagine they won't let go of
this battle. They won't want to lose this. What's the next step, you think here?
POLANTZ: Well, we've heard two different things, right? From President Donald Trump, we've heard one thing where he says that these are -- this is
something where they want to play hardball, to make other universities fall in line with what the administration's demands are. But then, there have
been other discussions about possible negotiations, that they would be interested in having Harvard come to the table. Those are the two routes.
So, this could either continue on as a very big fight in court, where Harvard is going to fight against everything the Trump administration wants
to do with them, not just about student visas, but pulling billions of dollars in grant funding, other money being pulled, or everybody goes
behind the scenes, hashes out a negotiation, and comes to some sort of conclusion out of court, that would require the Trump administration to
back down. They already did a little bit today already. Isa?
SOARES: Yes, and in the meantime, if anything, this has only unified everyone at Harvard. Thanks very much Katelyn Polantz, appreciate it. Now,
Elon Musk's time at the U.S. Department of Government Efficiency is over. The tech billionaire used his special employee status to upend the
government by overseeing major cuts to the federal workforce.
Announcing his departure on social media, he thanked President Trump for quote, "the opportunity to reduce wasteful spending". A White House
official said Wednesday that Musk would begin off-boarding that night. Musk's exit comes after he raised concerns over Mr. Trump's sweeping tax as
well as spending-cuts package.
And still to come tonight, the U.K. calls it a deliberate obstacle to Palestinian statehood. Israel's government has given the green light to the
biggest expansion of West Bank settlement in decades.
FOSTER: And a second court stops Donald Trump from imposing many of his sweeping tariffs. I'll have more reaction from here in Kazakhstan.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:20:00]
SOARES: For the third straight day of operations for a new U.S.-Israeli backed aid effort in Gaza, we are seeing chaotic scenes amid reports of
casualties.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(CROSSTALK)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Video from one new distribution site appears to show security contractors firing stun grenades at Palestinians waiting for food. Three
sites are now up and running for Gaza's 2 million people. Palestinians are crowding the sites, desperate for food after a month's long Israeli
blockade. Gaza's Health Ministry says 11 people have been killed at a distribution site in the past three days.
Yesterday, the foundation running the operation denied there were any casualties at all. Many people are having to walk long distances to reach
the sites, weakened by hunger, only to be bitterly disappointed when the food runs out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
YOUSEF HAMMAD, PALESTINIAN SEEKING FOOD ASSISTANCE: What happened is that we woke up to the crowd of people who were told there is aid. More than
100,000 people have entered here, maybe only 100 got aid boxes. This is a big lie, a trap and betrayal. You bring 300 boxes of aid for 2 million
people, and you say humanitarian aid? There is no aid or any humanity. This is humiliating and insulting.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: While the world's eyes are on Gaza, Israel's government has approved the biggest expansion of settlements in the occupied West Bank in
decades. It is vowing to establish 22 new settlements across the West Bank. You can see the locations here on this map. Brushing off the threat of
sanctions, if you remember, by several European countries.
Israel is being explicit about its intentions. A joint statement from Defense Minister Israel Katz, as well as Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich,
says the settlement expansion is aimed at quote, "reinforcing Israeli control of the territory and preventing the establishment of a Palestinian
state."
Smotrich himself, a settler who denies that Palestinian people exist, took it even further, announcing that the next step, he says, is annexation.
Israeli human rights groups are criticizing the move. B'Tselem calls it an ethnic cleansing, and blames the international community for, quote,
"enabling Israel's crimes."
And Peace now says this, and I'm quoting them here. "The Israeli government no longer pretends otherwise. The annexation of the occupied territories
and expansion of settlements is its central goal." Lots of threads for us to bring in to our conversation. I want to bring in Alon Pinkas; he's a
former Israeli Consul General in New York, and he joins us now from Tel Aviv in Israel.
A well-known face here on the show. Alon, great to have you back on the show. Look, let me pick up, first of all, with what we are seeing in the
West Bank and this expansion of 22 new settlements. You know, I remember only, what? Nine, ten days ago hearing from the leaders of Canada, of
France, of the U.K., who put out this joint statement.
You know -- that read in part, I'm going to read it here, let me get it. "We oppose any attempt to expand settlements in the West Bank. Israel must
halt settlements which are illegal and undermine the viability of a Palestinian state and the security of both Israelis and Palestinians. We
will not hesitate", they wrote, "to take further action including targeted sanctions."
How do you interpret today's decision on these settlements? What is Netanyahu's message, Alon, to these European allies?
ALON PINKAS, WRITER & FORMER ISRAELI CONSUL GENERAL TO NEW YORK: Well, good to be with you, Isa, I'm sorry about the dog barking, there is a siren,
actually, in Tel Aviv right now, very likely some Houthi missile from 2,000 kilometers in Yemen. So, I'm apologizing if the --
SOARES: Are you OK, Alon? Are you OK to -- Alon, are you OK to continue?
PINKAS: Yes --
SOARES: OK, go ahead.
PINKAS: I would never -- I would never -- I would never desert your show just for a Houthi missile, OK --
SOARES: Thank you very much --
PINKAS: Now, back to your question. OK, back to your question, Isa. Look, there are two ways of looking at it. One is that it is completely
insignificant because it won't happen. Israel will not build 22 settlements.
[14:25:00]
It doesn't have the resources. It doesn't have the political backing, and it just won't happen. But that's the easy way out. The better explanation
is that this is done in defiance and for spite against those very condemnations and threats that you mentioned. There was the Canadian,
French, British joint communique or joint statement.
Britain indeed is suspending trade talks, the EU has threatened to review the association agreement with Israel. Now, all this could also, you know,
be put on hold if reports are accurate, that there is a hostage deal that Israel, and apparently according to some sources, particularly Saudi
sources, even Hamas agreed to, that would go into effect in the next 48 hours.
Now, I don't know that for a fact, but if there is an agreement that creates a ceasefire immediately --
SOARES: Yes --
PINKAS: It is accompanied by a ceasefire, that would put on hold this entire settlement. But there's a third way of looking at it. I don't want
to go for too long. And the third way is that this is Israel doing -- you know, this is Israel's version of March of folly. Creating a reality of one
state. There are 14.5 million people between the Jordan river on the east and the Mediterranean sea in the west.
The demographic equilibrium is 50/50, which means that if there is no chance whatsoever for a Palestinian state, even ten years from now, but
just the idea, the concept of Palestinian statehood, then we're looking at a one-state reality, and a one-state reality, basically is going to
perpetuate the horrible scenes of the last 20 months.
SOARES: Let me pick up with what you said on the possibility of a ceasefire, a U.S. ceasefire proposal. We heard from --
PINKAS: Yes --
SOARES: Karoline Leavitt; the U.S. spokesperson -- press secretary, I should say, who said -- I'm going to play what she said, Alon, have a
listen to what she said on this just in the last hour. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEAVITT: I can confirm that special envoy Witkoff and the President submitted a ceasefire proposal to Hamas that Israel backed and supported.
Israel, signed off on this proposal before it was sent to Hamas. I can also confirm that those discussions are continuing, and we hope that a ceasefire
in Gaza will take place so we can return all of the hostages home.
And that's been a priority from this administration from the beginning. I won't comment further as we are in the midst of this right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: So, hearing, saying there that Israel backed and proposed it. But what we are hearing on the Hamas side --
PINKAS: Yes --
SOARES: Is that they received the proposal and they are studying it. So, a big question mark over this --
PINKAS: Right --
SOARES: Right now. But what do we know, Alon, if you have more insight about this, what exactly is in Witkoff's proposal? Do you have any clarity
because there have been so many iterations of this?
PINKAS: Yes, well, OK. You just touched on the -- on the big issue, the iterations and the modifications and the adjustments and the -- you know,
the patchwork of ideas. Basically, it's the same idea. It's the same contours of the plan that was in effect in January, including the ceasefire
which was violated on March 18th. So, we're back into the so-called phase two of that plan.
Now, I don't want to confuse all our viewers, but here are the main points. They're going to be -- there's going to be a release of ten Israeli live
hostages, and unfortunately, the bodies of 18 others and a reciprocal release by Israel of over 125 Palestinian prisoners, that will include or
be accompanied by a 60-day ceasefire.
And that ceasefire is -- throughout that ceasefire, both sides will negotiate the end of the war, the cessation of hostilities or a permanent
ceasefire. But here is the catch. Let's say that hopefully Israel accepts this, and hopefully Hamas accepts this. There are two caveats. There are
two catches here. One is, Hamas stays in power demoted, degraded, decimated, call it what you want, but they are still in power.
They retain residual power. Number two, not all the hostages are being returned. So, the war can't end almost by definition. And the question is,
why aren't -- why isn't there a grand deal to just free everyone in exchange for -- because that would mean the end of the war. And it looks as
if -- and we've had this discussion, Isa, you and I, on your program, on your show. It seems that neither Mr. Netanyahu nor Hamas want this war to
end.
SOARES: Alon, always great to get your insight. Thank you very much indeed, appreciate it. We'll stay across this story, of course, any new
developments we'll -
[14:30:10]
PINKAS: Thank you,
SOARES: -- it to everyone's attention. Thank you, Alon. And still to come tonight, Max Foster gets the Croatian perspective on the Trump trade war.
His interview with Croatia's economy minister, that is just ahead.
Plus, just this hour, Max also speaks to mining industry leader about the future of the minerals deal between Washington and Ukraine. That is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
FOSTER: Recapping our top story tonight. A federal judge has blocked most of Donald Trump's global tariffs. It ruled he overstepped his authority by
using emergency powers. The administration quickly appealed with White House adviser calling the ruling a judicial coup. Notably, one of the
judges on the court was appointed by Mr. Trump himself.
So, earlier, I spoke to the Croatian economy minister about this, and he's looking at this much more broadly. He says, the U.S. and the European Union
simply need a free trade deal.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SUSNJAR: We are asking for the U.S. side for de-escalation of this let's -- so-called tariff war because there is -- we think that there is no need for
the tariffs between U.S. and the E.U. because the human rights and labor rights are on the quite same level. And the --
[14:35:00]
FOSTER: And the trade is huge.
SUSNJAR: And trade is huge. Trade is huge. And trade is almost the same from the both sides. And we don't need and -- we do not see the need and
the possibility for the tariffs.
FOSTER: OK. So, get, let's get rid of all tariffs and have a free trade agreement, effectively? Is that ideally what you're looking at?
SUSNJAR: Absolutely. But you don't know from the other side. Every day is some new option and it's very dynamic. But I hope so. At the end, it'll be
passed an agreement that will be for good for all sides.
FOSTER: One of the issues here is you've got a leader in the U.S. who's very firmly in control, makes very quick decisions, but the E.U. just
doesn't operate like that, does it? It takes much longer because you have to get this consensus. Do you think he understands that now?
SUSNJAR: No. I think that this a part of the politics of President Trump that he comes and hope -- for sure he wants the best for the U.S. But I
think the free trade between the E.U. and the U.S. is the best for the U.S. also as same as for the E.U.
But we are actively discussing on the E.U. level regarding these tariffs. And we will be ready to answer on any kind of -- but as you see, the tariff
announced from the U.S. are postponed for some time.
FOSTER: Yes.
SUSNJAR: Because I think this a part of the negotiation process and it'll be, at the end, for past -- a good agreement for consumers from both sides.
FOSTER: But if he adds the 50 percent, then the E.U.s got a plan in place to fire straight back?
SUSNJAR: Yes, absolutely. We will react promptly. As you said, we need some time for discussion, but we are ready and we are discussing actively and we
are ready to react on that kind of tariffs.
FOSTER: Can we also talk about Ukraine? How close is the E.U. getting to actually being able to finance Ukraine?
SUSNJAR: This is a question for the whole world, not just for Europe. It is said to have war in the middle of the Europe in 2025, that everyday people
is getting killed. And what is the -- because of what? Because of someone who's want to take other's territory.
FOSTER: In your view, is that the playbook that Russia is using now is the same one that Serbia used in the 1990s?
SUSNJAR: It's the same. And this this a wakeup call for all European countries because to tomorrow, anyone can be exposed this kind of
aggression.
FOSTER: How close are we to negotiations? Are we hearing anything there? We're just waiting on Russia?
SUSNJAR: That is a very hard question. But I hope so that it'll take place very, very soon.
FOSTER: And on energy security, this obviously a big strategic priority now, isn't it for the E.U., that they can't rely on Russian energy, but
clearly, countries like yours, even Germany, do rely on Russian energy. And that's a real issue, isn't it, for Europe and their, you know, leverage
effectively.
SUSNJAR: Absolutely. But we, as a Croatia, acted promptly. And now, we do not have any of Russian fossil fuels, but not just for Croatia, we are
providing our services for our neighbor countries, even we will be capable to deliver the LNG to Germany, to Bavaria in next two years.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOSTER: That was the Croatian economy minister speaking to me a little earlier on. Russia's foreign ministry has said today that the next round of
peace talks with Ukraine will actually take place on Monday. That'll be in Istanbul. Russian state media saying, the Kremlin's lead negotiator has
been coordinating the details with Ukraine's defense minister.
Meanwhile, U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio spoke with the Russian foreign minister, Sergey Lavrov, as well. U.S. President Donald Trump
saying on Wednesday that he expects to know in about two weeks if Russia is serious about peace. And that's quite a big question.
[14:40:00]
Ukraine and the U.S. agreed on a deal in April giving Washington access to Kyiv's rare earth minerals. To discuss broad partnerships in this
particular area of mining, which everyone's talking about, this forum at least, I'm joined by Robert Friedland, founder of Ivanhoe Mines, and I-
Pulse. Thank you so much for joining us.
ROBERT FRIEDLAND, FOUNDER, IVANHOE MINES AND I-PULSE: Thank you, Max.
FOSTER: It's been an interesting day, hasn't it? And in terms of the -- I'll ask you about what rare earths are in a moment, because you've got a
particular view on that. But actually, Kazakhstan's becoming a real base for it, isn't it?
FRIEDLAND: Kazakhstan is a dynamic, young, enormous piece of the earth with a very forward-looking government that wants to attract capital to
modernize this country. We first came here in the 1990s. The changes are remarkable if you look around this new city. And it is a very highly
prospective country for the critical raw materials the whole world are looking for.
FOSTER: Yes, and this is -- you know, we talk about mobile phones, but the whole A.I. revolution everyone's talking about is dependent on this sort of
mining, right?
FRIEDLAND: Absolutely. Everything you touch, we either grew it agriculturally or we mined it.
FOSTER: Yes.
FRIEDLAND: And the way technology's evolving, it's more and more energy intensive and more and more metals intensive. Of course, A.I. uses huge
amounts of electrical energy and for that, you need metals like copper.
FOSTER: And the computers to develop it?
FRIEDLAND: Everything.
FOSTER: Yes.
FRIEDLAND: Everything we touch in our modern world.
FOSTER: And you've got interesting dilemma at the moment, haven't you? Because you mine a lot of these materials, you are watching these wars
escalate around the world. And you are saying that that is actually an issue, because you're not going to be able -- because they use the same
materials effectively.
FRIEDLAND: Yes. Yes.
FOSTER: Just explain.
FRIEDLAND: We are still going to have record temperatures globally in the world. We have a huge amount of the world affected by climate change, and
at the same time, the metals we need to alleviate climate change, like the electrification of automobiles, the greening of the world economy, are
using and desiring the same metals that conflict consumes. So, re- militarization, national security, and fighting are demanding the same metals we need for the greening of the world economy.
FOSTER: How much of a problem is that? Because how urgent is the need for copper, for example?
FRIEDLAND: We need to mine as much copper the next 20 years just to maintain 3 percent global GDP growth as we've mined all of human history.
FOSTER: For the viewers saying you would say that, because you mine it, just explain the evidence.
FRIEDLAND: Price is going up. It's getting harder and harder to find it. These metals -- most of the world's major copper mines are getting old and
tired and dying, just like in a human lifespan. So, we have to go to new places like Kazakhstan.
FOSTER: Yes.
FRIEDLAND: And some countries have legislation that allows for mining and is attracting capital, and Kazakhstan is such a country. The president of
the administration here has done a lot to make this country attractive for the exploration of mining, which is why we're here.
FOSTER: Yes. Everyone will be aware of how Donald Trump's administration has done a deal with Ukraine about mining there. Just explain, you know,
how most countries are actually trying to get to these materials --
FRIEDLAND: Well, that's --
FOSTER: It's just that Donald Trump's getting the headlines.
FRIEDLAND: That's exactly what I'm saying. When is the last time you've ever heard the president of the United States raise this issue to the point
of national security?
FOSTER: Yes.
FRIEDLAND: Say, I will be involved in Ukraine if you help my country get critical raw materials. And that's an example of the whole world paying
attention to this question. Europe is worried about critical raw materials. China is worried about critical raw materials. The United States is as
well. So, you're entering into a period where we need a lot more capital and a better way to mine.
FOSTER: But if you -- I mean, whoever gets hold of these materials, most of them, have got the advantage, haven't they?
FRIEDLAND: Whoever gets hold of these materials wins the game.
FOSTER: Yes. But what -- you know, give us an insight into the competition there.
FRIEDLAND: Well, I think it used to be crude oil, you know? We used to fight wars over crude oil. I have trouble believing that the United States
would've engaged in shock and awe bombing Saddam Hussein if there was not one drop of oil in Iraq. So, historically, we fought wars over oil. And in
the new era, we're fighting wars, perhaps, in relation to critical raw materials.
FOSTER: So, what are the countries we're talking about here that are essential to this?
FRIEDLAND: Well, Kazakhstan is a, an enormous landmass.
FOSTER: Yes.
FRIEDLAND: And it has the (INAUDIBLE) mineral belt that comes right across the country. So, it's the world's largest producer of uranium, for example,
for nuclear power. It has an enormous geologic endowment for gold, copper, all of these metals. And the government has now opened it to foreign
investment. There are many places we cannot mine as an American or Canadian miner. We can't mine in the Soviet Union, for example. But Kazakhstan is
open to mining and that's why this such an interesting and dynamic conference.
FOSTER: Yes. And in terms of the sort of debates you've had here, what's everyone saying about the state of things? Dare I say.
FRIEDLAND: Here?
[14:45:00]
FOSTER: Yes. I mean, is -- you can't avoid the chaos in the global economy right now, can you? Because no one knows what's happening.
FRIEDLAND: Yes. You know, the problem with mining is that we have to look at what we need five or 10 years from now, but we have to invest the
capital now, we have to discern where technology's going, how it's evolving, and we have to start the mineral and expiration development
process, which can take a decade or two decades. Otherwise, when we get there from here, we won't have what we need and we won't be able to turn on
the lights.
FOSTER: Well, thanks for staying up late for us and keeping the lights on.
FRIEDLAND: Yes. Thank you. Thank you, Max.
FOSTER: Here in Kazakhstan. Thank you very much. Speaking there to Robert Friedland. We are going to be speaking to, you know, various people here at
this conference. It feels pretty central when you've got so many world leaders, so many business leaders, all discussing big issues that we've got
in the rest of the show. But we'll be back in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: Well, a deluge of ice, mud, and rock has buried 90 percent of a Swiss mountain village. The landslide was triggered by a huge chunk of
glacier, you can see there, breaking off in the Alps on Wednesday. The video shows the moment of the collapse.
The village of roughly 300 residents was evacuated early this month due to a rock slide risk. And you may actually remember from last week, we had a
video of a helicopter lifting a cow from this village as part of that evacuation, however, rescue teams are searching for a missing 64-year-old
man.
Flooding now threatens the village and the surrounding valley, and environmental experts says warmer climate affecting permafrost likely
played a part in the glaciers collapse.
All beautiful and amazing photos from the National Geographic traveler competition have been chosen. As the winners in several categories. This
intimate portrait, you can see there, with Vietnamese woman sitting next to her granddaughter won this year's photography exhibition -- competition.
This incredible image was picked from thousands of other entries. Other winners include an eye-like geothermal pour in Iceland, a (INAUDIBLE) eagle
and a fox in Spain, as well as a family eatery in Tibet. Beautiful. Very stunning.
Unusual names are on the rise at sea in Japan and the government, well, clearly, has had enough. New rules have come into effect this week,
limiting parents from giving their babies names pronounced in unconventional ways. And these include kind of quirky names such as Nike,
Pikachu, or Pudding.
[14:50:00]
The crackdown on so-called sparkly names is due to teachers and nurses struggling to decipher them as Japan uses three writing systems, including
two phonetic ones. Some say the change will prevent harassment, but others say sparkly names express individualism. Absolutely they do.
And still to come tonight, global conflicts and trade wars front and center at the Astana International Forum. We'll go live to Max Foster next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: Welcome back, everyone. Government and business leaders are meeting Kazakhstan right now during a time of global disruption, ongoing wars,
trade uncertainty, and a climate crisis, just some of the issues being discussed at the Astana International Forum. Max Foster is back with us
from Astana. He's been listening to some of those conversations, actually leading some of those conversations, Max. Give us a sense of what leaders
are making of the many crises, of course, that we are facing right now, and the need for diplomacy at this moment.
FOSTER: Yes, it's interesting because it's actually interesting being with them as they receive another, you know, stage in this story around the
global trade battle, the global trade war. So, you hear about this case in the U.S. where the tariffs have effectively been put on hold. Yes, people
are talking about it, but it's almost as if they're not hanging on Donald Trump's every word, every twist and turn in this story at the moment
because there have been so many and they've got to find a way forward.
And the one thing I think all countries outside America have realized that they've got to build new relationships when they can't depend on the
American one. You're not going to hear them criticizing America because most countries, including Kazakhstan, have America as one of their main
trading partners, if not the main trading partner.
But at the same time, they're having to work out, you know, what happens if we can't trade with America coming out of this? No one knows what's going
to happen. And for example, countries in Central Asia are working much more closely together. Speaking to the Croatian minister earlier on saying how,
actually, it's brought the European Union a lot closer together because they've got to come up with a united response. They've got to depend on
each other more than before.
[14:55:00]
And then you've got the conflicts playing into this. And there's this sense of chaos. But actually, a sense of reality about them having to do
something about this, find a way forward, and that is for countries, you know, in a particular area of the world, working much more closely
together.
SOARES: And, Max, I find it interesting, you know, just speaking to the CEO you had on in the last 10 minutes or so. And this something we've seen on
and off over this trade war, really a rollercoaster of emotions from so many businesses, but also in the stock markets. And the -- you know, it's
the lack of uncertainty of what this presidency will mean and what will mean for businesses. Is this what concerns some of those businesses that
there, there isn't a clarity from this administration on what may happen, you know, down the road?
FOSTER: Well, you know, if you think of the safe havens, whenever there's uncertainty, you go to gold, the dollar, and U.S. treasuries, two of those
are now -- there's another risk to them that there wasn't before. So, now, you're looking at gold and then thinking, where else are we going to
invest? So, that's what they're doing at events like this, trying to work out where else they can find a safe haven.
SOARES: Yes, indeed, it's -- and I know it's a discussion that you'll continue having. And Max Foster will be back at the top of the hour with
"What We Know." Max, appreciate it. Thank you very much.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:00:00]
END
