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Isa Soares Tonight
Putin Tells Trump In A Phone Call He Will Respond To Ukraine's Recent Attacks; Aid Distribution Centers In Gaza Temporarily Shuts Down; Two Chinese Researchers Charged With Entering The United States With Dangerous Pathogens; Congressional Leaders React To Musk's Remarks On Bill; Putin Vows To Strike Back at UKRAINE; Yulia Navalnaya Launches TV Channel For Russian Audience; Chinese Researchers Charged For Smuggling Pathogen. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired June 04, 2025 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00]
ISA SOARES, HOST, ISA SOARES TONIGHT: A very warm welcome to the show, everyone, I'm Isa Soares. Tonight, we have breaking news. President Donald
Trump and Vladimir Putin hold a phone call as the war in Ukraine escalates. The Russian leader reportedly saying he will respond to Kyiv's recent
attacks.
We have the very latest and a response from Ukraine. Then desperate scenes in Gaza as aid distribution centers temporarily shut down. Israel's
military declares access routes to food hubs as, quote, "combat zones". And a biological bust. Two Chinese researchers are charged with bringing in a
dangerous pathogen into the United States.
The FBI says it can be used as a bio weapon. We have the very latest for you. We begin this hour with breaking news and ominous warning to Ukraine
delivered by the President of the United States. Donald Trump says he spoke to Vladimir Putin by phone earlier, something the Kremlin confirms in a
conversation that lasted about 75 minutes or so.
Mr. Trump said he and the Russian President talked about Kyiv's audacious attack on Moscow's strategic bombers, if you remember, over the weekend.
That operation also apparently coming as a surprise, as we understood to the United States. And while the U.S. President described the conversation
as good, he said it wasn't one, as you can see, that would lead to immediate peace in Ukraine, adding that the Russian leader vowed to respond
to Kyiv's strikes, quote, "very strongly".
What Mr. Trump didn't say is whether he discouraged Mr. Putin from taking action. So, let's get more on the latest lines as breaking news. Our team
is tracking this story from all angles. Nic Robertson is here with us in London, Kevin Liptak is at the White House. Let me start with Kevin this
hour. So, Kevin, we're starting -- we now have some sort of readout as well from the Russian side, the Russian presidential aide.
But first, tell me what President Trump has said, because it did sound to me like there was a -- there wasn't a lot -- there was a lot of carrot and
not much stick yet again.
KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yes, I think that's the right way to characterize it. President Trump, in his description of this phone call
didn't describe any pressure placed on Putin when it comes to ending the conflict. He didn't discuss, for example, the threat of sanctions that he
has continued to hold over Moscow as he works to bring this war to an end.
Instead, he was really kind of matter of fact, at least, when it comes to the Ukraine issue that they discussed, because they also discussed Iran.
But when it comes to Ukraine, the President really kind of taking a neutral point of view, both on the Ukrainian drone attacks over the weekend. You
know, this is the first time that we have actually heard the President address that directly.
He doesn't really take a side on that matter, but he also didn't necessarily say whether he wanted Putin to calibrate his response. He
simply said that Putin had told him that he does plan to respond, quote, "very strongly". And so, I think you see it in this, the President
essentially sort of continuing on this path of trying to distance himself of attempts to mediate an end to this war.
Obviously, this has become an enormous frustration of his, that attempts to bring about a ceasefire have so far failed. He's continuing the dialogue
with Putin, and we should note that he will also come face-to-face with Vladimir Zelenskyy when they are both at the G7 at the end of next week,
but it doesn't appear as if President Trump is encouraging Putin to take any specific action that would lead to a ceasefire, or would at least
assist those efforts in bringing that along.
He does say that the call lasted an hour and 15 minutes, and he says that it was a good conversation, but that it was not a conversation that, in his
words, will lead to immediate peace. And so, I think a sort of a frank acknowledgment from the President there, that instead of coming closer to
ending this conflict, it appears that they're actually moving further apart as the two sides continue these attacks.
And as Putin vows, a reprisal for what was essentially an embarrassment for the Russian Air Force over the weekend.
[14:05:00]
SOARES: Yes, and I'll come back to you, because I do want to talk about the possibility of sanctions, at least that's what was being discussed
yesterday at the White House -- press secretary. So, we'll go to that in just a moment. Let me go to Nic Robertson, who is following this breaking
news story. And Nic, I'm seeing the Yuri Ushakov, who is the Russian presidential aide also commenting on this call, saying Vladimir Putin spoke
in detail about the results of the second round of direct Russian-Ukraine negotiations in Istanbul.
As was emphasized, he says, Ukraine tried to disrupt these negotiations by carrying out under direct orders of the Kyiv regime, targeted attacks on
purely civilian targets, on the peaceful population. This is clearly classified as terrorism by international law and in our opinion, the Kyiv
regime has essentially turned into a terrorist organization.
He did go on a bit, but this was the standout quote for me. This does not look to me, Nic, and you and I were talking about this, that we are any
close at all to any sort of ceasefire negotiations or even Putin coming to the negotiating table.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Not at all. In fact, you know, President Zelenskyy has been -- has been making that point that
the talks in Istanbul aren't going anywhere and the best way to resolve this is talks directly between the leaders, President Zelenskyy and
President Putin.
He said President Trump and other key leaders could be there as well, and the Kremlin has also turned that down. So, I think what we're hearing from
these Russian officials is very much a version of the additional things that Putin will have undoubtedly communicated with Trump that the breakdown
in talks, because of course, Putin will portray himself as wanting to have talks and be the peacemaker here and blaming it all on Ukraine, that it's
not happening.
This idea that Ukraine is involved in terrorist activities seems to come about from the targeting of a couple of railway bridges, strategic railway
bridges in Russia that Ukraine hasn't taken or claimed responsibility for, but did collapse on tracks, and there were civilians injured, according --
and killed, according to the Russians.
You know, you have to sort of suspend imagination and belief and suspend everything here when listening to Russia, criticize Ukraine for hitting
civilians, when every day --
SOARES: Yes --
ROBERTSON: Our screens are full of images of Russia's missiles, artillery, drones slamming into civilians in cities, going about their daily lives. So
-- but this will be the talking point that President Putin will have been pushing on President Trump. And we know that President Trump, you know,
tends to listen to the last person in the room with him, and you only have to listen to the way -- and Kevin was laying it out there, but the way that
President Trump characterized the phone call, he, Putin, told me he would have to respond to these strikes.
And in that language, he would have to respond. As Kevin says, we don't know what direction Trump tried to push Putin in not to respond. But that
characterization, he has to respond, that sounds very much like the language you would expect Putin to be using. I have to respond to this.
And you know, we know that there's been discussion about a big prisoner exchange coming up for this weekend, twelve hundred prisoners on each side,
Ukraine, Russia. But think back to two week and a half ago when a 1,000 prisoners, big at the time --
SOARES: Yes --
ROBERTSON: Biggest ever were exchanged. Russia that weekend mounted a massive barrage of drone -- the biggest aerial bombardment on the Saturday
into Sunday. The biggest drone strikes ever on the Sunday and to the Monday. You know, when Russia tries to portray themselves A, as the victim,
and B as the peacemakers here, it sounds, -- it's going to sound very empty in Kyiv.
SOARES: So, then Nic, put this into a wider context with the diplomatic push that we have seen, we saw today several Defense Ministers, Ukraine
Defense Minister, Pistorius from Germany as well as the British taking questions today, standing united, the missing --the elephant in the room
there, as you saw, as you probably heard, was Pete Hegseth, the U.S. Defense Secretary wasn't there.
So, we've got Pete Hegseth not being present in a conversation meeting with leaders that really was all about Ukraine and support for Ukraine. You have
then this call from President Trump that paints Putin as a victim. Where -- what does that suggest to you in terms about -- in terms of U.S. interests
and willingness to stay in this fight?
ROBERTSON: Yes, look, Pete Hegseth not being in the room for what his predecessor had helped establish and chair over many meetings over three
years, the Ukraine Defense Contact Group, that was Lloyd, the former Defense Secretary who had been championing and pushing that and corralling
and getting the more than 50 other nations on board with that.
[14:10:00]
It's in stark contrast. But you know, I was also listening to a briefing being given by the U.S. ambassador to NATO today who said very clearly,
there's an expectation, a demand, if you will, from the U.S., that all NATO nations, when President Trump gets to -- gets to Europe in a few weeks
time, that they must commit 5 percent of GDP towards defense spending.
That's the very minimum the U.S. wants. But then the rationale the U.S. ambassador gave for that is, we see the Kremlin building up their weapons,
and we, NATO, must stay ahead of them. So, what's the real message here? You know, on the one hand, the United States is saying we want more money
out of NATO because the Kremlin is weaponizing and doing it very fast, you know, four times as fast in terms of making armaments. The NATO is.
So, this is -- it's hard to read the room on this one, but inevitably, again, to that point, whoever has been in the room most recently, the
telephone conversation with President Trump, President Putin, that's the way the President leans, even if his -- all his diplomats are saying things
that sound a little bit different.
SOARES: Yes, look, lots of mixed messages from this administration on that point of the 5 percent of GDP. I also heard the Foreign Minister,
Pistorius, of Germany, saying that's just not realistic. So, interesting to see what may come out of this meeting. Kevin Liptak and our Nic Robertson,
thank you very much to you both.
Well, as Russian President Vladimir Putin pushes forward with his three- year assault on Ukraine, a new study reveals a significant number of soldiers injured or killed. According to the Center for Strategic and
International studies, there have been nearly 1 million Russian casualties, with nearly half as much for Ukraine.
All of this as Russian forces advance further as we told you yesterday, broke it down while our Nic Robertson into Ukraine's Sumy region. My next
guest is Ukrainian parliament member Kira Rudik, who is here with me in London. Kira, great to have you back on the show. Look, you heard both our
correspondents there.
Let me start with your reaction to this call between President Putin and President Trump. And words like Nic said that painted in many ways, Putin
as a victim.
KIRA RUDIK, MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT, UKRAINE: Hello, Isa, and thank you so much for having me here. When I read President Trump's statement, I was
just asking one question. Did the leader of the Democratic world just give a blessing for Putin's another attack on Ukraine? And I'm just like, this
is so absurd, and this is so disgraceful for everyone, for everyone who is fighting right now, but also for everyone who is watching.
And the question is, why are they not more afraid? What Russia can do if Ukraine fails? By the way, we don't plan to fail --
SOARES: Yes --
RUDIK: We will continue fighting. We are not going to capitulate. But right now, trying to swap the table and paint Russia as a victim and Ukraine as
an aggressor, I'm just like, is it not clear by this moment who is an aggressor, and that Ukraine is defending itself? As -- it's like -- does
President of the United States want to align with Russia because it just doesn't -- it doesn't seem right.
None of that seems right. And the worst thing, Isa, is that people from the frontline will be giving calls and asking the question of what's going on?
And there is no good answer to explain to them what is happening and why is the President of the United States is saying what he is saying.
SOARES: When I bumped into you upstairs just before you came down, and I could see how really visibly angry you were with those words.
RUDIK: Because it's not just some words because it's basically my life, my relatives' life, my neighbors' life is at stake. Every next missile, every
next drone attack could be the final one for someone, for people that I love, for me personally. And this is why I'm angry. Because if it was in
some parallel world and we were just discussing some people --
SOARES: Yes --
RUDIK: It would be one thing, but it is very real. In Ukraine, everything is very real.
SOARES: I mean, Nic was saying, our diplomatic editor, you heard him there, Kira, talking about the mixed messaging we're getting from this
administration. It's not the first time I've heard it, but you know, does this sound like a President who is ready to impose sanctions on Russia?
Because only two weeks ago, I think he said, well, give me two weeks to figure it out.
Does this sound like a President who is prepared to put a red line, who is prepared to put -- portray some -- give Russia some stick? Because that
does not sound like that to me.
RUDIK: It's another painful matter, Isa, because we have done everything by the book. We have done things that we said that we would never do. We have
voted for this rare minerals deal, just giving away our rare minerals. President Zelenskyy has come to Istanbul, something that he said that he
would never do, never negotiate with Putin.
We have gone through everything, agreed to a 30-day ceasefire. So, President Trump seemed to put pressure on Ukraine. But we have not seen him
putting any kind of pressure on Russia. And it's not even mixed messages. It's a very straightforward message which says I will negotiate with
aggressor, and I will put a pressure on the victim.
[14:15:00]
It is not leading us anywhere right now, because there has not been any single fact that would prove that Putin wants to end the war. Because you
know what these facts would be? He would just stop attacking us or he would come to negotiating table. So, this illusion that you can agree with Putin
on something just exists in the White House right now or perhaps somewhere else in Kremlin.
And this is why it is so painful, because we are losing time. We are losing people. We are losing the ability to get support from the United States.
And it just seems such a -- such a bad message to all the world, to all the other aggressors who are clearly watching that they can start a full scale
aggression, commit all kinds of the war crimes, and then they can delay and play around.
President Trump looks very weak right now because he didn't get anything from Putin as of right now, from what he wanted from him, anything.
SOARES: Where then does this leave any sort of negotiations? As you heard me saying there, Pete Hegseth wasn't there, the U.S. Defense Secretary
wasn't in these talks. You know, Ukraine Defense Minister was there along with 50 others or so, clearly standing united with Ukraine in terms of
Europeans. But what is the message the United States is giving, and where does that leave any sort of ceasefire negotiations? Because, you know,
Ukraine has showed up at every single meeting.
RUDIK: Yes, we have done everything. So, I think we need to come back to Munich Security Conference when J.D. Vance was very clear, saying that
Europe needs to take care of its own -- of its own security by itself.
SOARES: Yes --
RUDIK: So, this is where we're going --
SOARES: You think this is where it's going? Do you think the U.S. is going to pull out of this?
RUDIK: Well, it's -- let's look at the facts.
SOARES: Yes --
RUDIK: If in two weeks or three weeks, we will get additional package of the military support from U.S., then I will be wrong. But right now, we
don't know if that's going to happen.
SOARES: But this is what Putin wants, Kira.
RUDIK: Yes, that's right. And this is why I'm asking why are people not afraid more of what's going to happen? Because again, coming back to the
ceasefire question, like again, the question is not answered. What will make sure or who will make sure that Putin will keep his part of the
bargain even if there is a ceasefire?
Because since 2014, Isa, we have been in so many ceasefires with them, and it never worked. It led us to the situation when Russia launched full-scale
invasion. The only thing that worked for us for the last 11 years was to fight back. And this is what we are doing, and this is what we intend to
do. We didn't say we want a negotiation --
SOARES: Yes --
RUDIK: And we believe in ceasefire. This was an illusion coming from the White House. And right now, this illusion is just breaking down.
SOARES: Breaking down, Ukraine though has been fighting back quite ferociously, showing that it still has cards to play. Kira, really
appreciate you coming on, thank you very much indeed --
RUDIK: Thank you --
SOARES: Kira Rudik there. Now, a warning from Israel's military. It's telling people in Gaza to stay away from aid hubs, saying access routes to
the food centers are currently what it calls combat zones. Dozens of Palestinians have been killed as we've shown you over the past few days
while trying to pick up food from delivery sites in those little red dots we're showing you on the map.
These are being led by the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation. The GHF says its centers are temporarily shut. It's also just announced a new director, and
that is the U.S. Evangelical Christian leader, Reverend Johnny Moore. He takes over the controversial group a week after its previous head resigned,
if you remember, saying the operation was inconsistent with principles such as impartiality and neutrality. We'll have more now from CNN's Jeremy
Diamond, who is in Tel Aviv for you.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Well, the controversial U.S. and Israeli-backed aid delivery mechanism for Gaza has
shut down its operations for today. The Gaza Humanitarian Foundation said that it was not going to be operational today as it carries out what it
describes as logistical work to improve the ability of this site to handle the large numbers of Palestinians who have been arriving at this site in
southern Gaza.
But of course, what is in the background of this, and what GHF is not saying outwardly is the fact that it comes following three consecutive days
during which more than 60 Palestinians have been killed according to the Palestinian Ministry of Health while trying to get to these aid sites.
Eyewitnesses and doctors at local hospitals have said that it is Israeli gunfire that has been responsible for killing those Palestinians and
wounding hundreds more over the course of just the last three days.
And that seems to be what is prompting this effort by both the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation and the Israeli military, which has said that it is
declaring these routes to that site a quote-unquote, "combat zone" for now, to try and do some work here to improve those routes. Gaza Humanitarian
Foundation spokesman also told me that they have asked the Israeli military to implement three things, measures to guide food traffic, clearer IDF
guidance on how Palestinians should get to these sites and when they should and should not.
[14:20:00]
And also -- and this is very interesting to quote, "enhance IDF force training and refine internal IDF procedures to support safety." And that
certainly suggests that there has been a conversation between the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation and the Israeli military about their rules of
engagement, and the fact that they have fired upon Palestinians who are on their way to this aid site.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOARES: Jeremy Diamond reporting there. And on tomorrow's show, I'm joined by Dr. Victoria Rose right here in the studio. She's a consultant plastic
surgeon who has just returned from treating patients at Nasser Hospital in Gaza. She regularly posts updates about the situation on the ground, and
this is her final update from inside Gaza. Just have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VICTORIA ROSE, CONSULTANT PLASTIC SURGEON: So, it is Tuesday, the 3rd of June apparently, and I'm at the OHCHR Training center in Deir al-Balah, and
this is possibly my last message from Gaza, which is very sad really, because I'm a bit worried about everybody that we've left that needs
further plastic surgery.
And as I keep saying, I'm not a 100 percent sure that I'll get back here now. But it's been a really good trip and we've done some good stuff, and
it's just a shame to be leaving and there still to be no ceasefire. And the plight of the Palestinians is still in the balance. Just have to see what
more we can do from home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Do stay tuned for my conversation with Dr. Rose at 7:00 p.m. right here in London, that's 2:00 p.m. in New York. And still to come right here
on the show, President Trump doubles down on steel and aluminum tariffs, what the move could mean for global trade as well as the American consumer.
Plus, how politics can make for strange bedfellows. Why Democrats say they agree with Elon Musk. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: Welcome back, everyone. New 50 percent U.S. tariffs on steel and aluminum imports are fueling fresh concerns about the future of global
trade as well as American jobs. The U.S. steel industry is naturally applauding President Trump's move to double those levies, but critics warn
it could lead to higher prices on products that contain steel and aluminum, such as your cars and your appliances.
[14:25:00]
Meantime, the European Union stopped trade negotiators, says tariff talks with the U.S. are progressing, quote, "at pace". The Trump administration
has given all trading partners until today to submit their best trade proposals. We're joined by CNN's business and politics correspondent
Vanessa Yurkevich.
Vanessa, so, as we said out there, the U.S. steel industry clearly applauding this tariff increase. But as we've heard repeatedly from
economists, we could be looking at price increases here. So, just talk to that. What is the likely impact?
VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN BUSINESS & POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, a significant escalation in this trade war going from a 25 percent tariff on
all steel and aluminum imported into the United States to a 50 percent tariff. And just look at all the things that are made with steel and
aluminum. You mentioned a few.
You have cars, appliances, machinery, airplanes, building materials, and even food and beverage cans. Americans and people around the world consume
so much of all of these things especially in the food category. And the U.S. in particular, we do produce a lot of steel and aluminum, but we do
get a lot from abroad.
If you look at the breakdown for steel in particular, we get a significant amount from Canada, and then other key trading partners, Brazil, Mexico,
South Korea, and then other countries around the world, 39 percent. And then just look at aluminum. The number one country that we import aluminum
from Canada.
And that is why we're paying so close attention to negotiations there to see if for some reason, those tariff levels can be reduced. But
essentially, because now foreign steel coming into the United States is more expensive, that means U.S. steel is going to be more expensive. And
that is why there is concern that as potentially, companies shift away from using foreign steel, they're going to turn to U.S. steel.
But just look at that, steel prices, April versus March are up 6 percent already. So, this is where the concern starts to take place, especially for
the U.S. consumer who is just trying to figure out what all of these tariffs mean for them. Isa.
SOARES: And Vanessa, with tariffs pretty much weighing heavily and not just on Mexico, but also on China, what -- how are import/export, I should say,
looking at -- where are they looking at to try and ease some of that pain? I know this is some of the reporting that you have been focusing on.
YURKEVICH: Yes, we have been speaking to a lot of U.S. businesses in particular about where they're trying to move supply chains, especially out
of China, which has that highest tariff rate at 30 percent. A lot of companies are moving to other southeast Asian countries. However, we have
spoken to a few who are looking at the Dominican Republic, an island in the Caribbean.
Just look at all of the manufacturers and retailers that are there already. Hanes, Eaton, Timberland, CardinalHealth, World Emblem, the largest
producer of patches for clothing is moving there and breaking ground this month on a new 100,000 foot square facility. And I looked into this, and
the Dominican Republic actually has a robust manufacturing sector, about 7.1 percent of all foreign investment went into the Dominican Republic in
2024 -- actually an increase of 7.1 percent.
That's 41 percent of all the investment that went into Central America, and 20 percent of that investment into the manufacturing sector just behind
tourism. And these companies are looking to the Dominican Republic for a few reasons. One, are free trade zones or free zones, which basically
create sort of these tax exemptions for companies.
They don't have to pay income tax, they don't have to pay import tax, they don't have to pay transfer taxes. That's savings to the tune of millions of
dollars. Also, Dominican Republic, very close to the United States, just a couple of days on cargo vessels to get your products into the U.S. versus
Asia, which is a couple of weeks.
And then wages, they're significantly lower by about 30 percent compared to Mexico, some hurdles, Isa, to manufacture in the Dominican Republic --
well, it's a small island. There's not as much space to do the manufacturing, fewer skilled workers to be able to train to do these
technical skills. And people just don't know about it.
That's why we looked into this. I spoke to the CEO of World Emblem, who is breaking ground on his new facility. I asked him, Isa, how did you hear
about the Dominican Republic? His response, ChatGPT. So, that just kind of tells the story right there, that people aren't too familiar with the
Dominican Republic as a big manufacturing hub, Isa.
SOARES: Well, there will be now. There will be now for sure. Good for the Dominican Republic. Vanessa, great reporting. Thank you very much --
YURKEVICH: Thank you --
SOARES: Indeed. I want to stay in the United States because Elon Musk may have left the White House, but his impact on Washington is still being
felt. Here's his take on President Trump's so-called Big Beautiful Bill now in the hands, of course, of the U.S. Senate. The billionaire called the
bill a disgusting abomination, sending shockwaves through D.C.
The stunning turn of events has flipped the script on Capitol Hill, with Democrats wholly embracing Musk's comments while Republicans push back.
Have a listen.
Do we have the sound? No, we don't seem to, so, apologies. You just have to take my words for it. Let's go to Annie Grayer who joins me now. Annie,
look, we didn't play the clip, but I think the words spoke for itself. He clearly did not mince his words about how he feels. How is this being
received by the Trump administration, first of all?
[14:30:20]
ANNIE GRAYER, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: Well, the Trump administration and Republican leadership are really thrown off guard by Musk's comments here.
Musk has been a close ally of President Trump as he has -- as he was leading the DOGE effort here in the U.S. and Republicans on Capitol Hill,
really backed Musk. And even House Speaker Mike Johnson said that on Monday he spoke with Musk and had a very pleasant conversation, talking about how
Musk was going to help Republicans win re-election in November 26th. And then, the next day, yesterday, so on Tuesday, there was this 180 where Musk
comes out against Trump's big, beautiful bill.
Now, Republican leadership are trying to tamp down concerns here and say that this does not impact, you know, the overall support among Republicans
for the bill. But there are some conservatives who -- especially in the House, who had a really hard time voting for this bill the first time, who
are saying that they now -- they are grateful that Musk has come out and against this bill and are hoping that it will create some momentum here.
But you know, as you were mentioning at the top, what has been most interesting is to see how many Democrats are coming out saying they agree
with Musk, maybe for the first time. Just this unlikely alliance now forming as a result of Musk's opposition to what Donald Trump is hoping
will be, you know, his signature piece of legislation for this term.
SOARES: And as you were speaking, Annie, I'm seeing that Elon Musk has continued to ramp up his attacks on President Donald Trump's domestic
policy agenda, calling on Congress to draft, he says, a new spending bill. And he writes on X, a new spending bill should be drafted that doesn't
massively grow the deficit and increase the debt ceiling by $5 trillion. So, left the White House, but still very much involve an opinion. Annie,
appreciate it. Thank you very much indeed.
Now, it was bound to happen. Russia's president tells Donald Trump he's about to strike back for Ukraine's bold attack on its war planes. Details
of that phone call coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:35:00]
SOARES: Welcome back, everyone. Well, it should come as no surprise that Russia is planning to respond to Ukraine's weakened drone attacks. On his
Truth Social platform, President Donald Trump says he got the official word from Russian leader Vladimir Putin early on Wednesday. During their 75-
minute call, Mr. Trump says the conversation would not bring the war with Ukraine to a quick end.
Meanwhile, we are getting a new look at Ukraine's audacious drone attack. New video was released by Ukraine Security Agency, the SBU. And it shows,
as you can see there, how it was meticulously planned and executed. According to Ukrainian military officials, more than 41 Russian aircraft
were hit.
Let's get more perspective from now from Fabrice Pothier. He served as the head of policy planning for NATO secretary general and is the current CEO
of Rasmussen Global. Fabrice, great to have you back on the show.
Let me start really with the breaking news that we've been following for the last 36 minutes here on the show, and this is phone call between
President Trump and President Putin. Both spoke for about an hour or so. This is what President Trump said on Truth Social, part of what he said, we
discussed the attack on Russia's docked airplanes by Ukraine, and also various other attacks that have been taking place by both sides. It was a
good conversation, but not a conversation that will lead to immediate peace.
So, clearly, not a conversation that gets Ukraine any closer to a ceasefire or a conversation, Fabrice, that seems push Putin to the negotiating table.
Instead, almost President Trump reiterating some of the Kremlin talking points, what did you take away from that?
FABRICE POTHIER, CEO, RASMUSSEN GLOBAL: Well, first, this is typical Trump drawing a quite equidistant relation between Ukrainian attacks and Russian
ones. And we should remember the facts here. The recent Russian attacks, mostly midsize and drones, were mostly against civilian targets, against
buildings, against cities. The Ukrainian attacks were targeted at military infrastructure used by Putin to wage war in Ukraine. So, I think it is a
typical morally condemnable equidistant that Trump is drawing between Russia and Ukraine.
Second, what is striking in the statement is that there is not a single word or even allusion to some form of condemnation of -- or prevention at
least trying to prevent a Russia response. He's just stating the fact that Russia will consider a response to the recent Ukrainian operations. And I
think, again, that shows that, like you're right, President Trump is on one side of this war and is the wrong side.
SOARES: And I just had -- I'm not sure if you heard at the top of the show, I had Kira Rudik, the Ukrainian MP, and she said -- and I've got the
transcript. She said to me -- she said, when I read President Trump's statement, I was just asking one question. Did the leader of the Democratic
world just gave a blessing for Putin's another attack on Ukraine? She called it absurd. She called a disgraceful. She said that President Trump
is looking very weak.
So, you know, given what you said, Fabrice, where does this then leave any sort of negotiations? Because President Trump, who clearly thought with
promise to bring the war to an end within a day hasn't got us any closer, hasn't got Ukraine any closer. In fact, it seems we are further away.
POTHIER: Well, the reality is that President Trump is unwilling to lean on Vladimir Putin to bring him to the negotiations table. That's a fact. And
every time -- including some people around him in the administration and also members of Congress, have been calling for -- imply -- launching
massive sanctions against oil and gas transactions from Russia, he's been unwilling to pull that trigger.
And as long as he does that, Vladimir Putin doesn't see any reason why he should change his posture. And his posture is mostly inflict the maximum
cost and pain on the Ukrainian people and then pretend to do some fake negotiations. But really, the real negotiations have not started. So, this
really, the key here belongs to President Trump and not to Vladimir Putin.
[14:40:00]
SOARES: And, Fabrice, then, where then -- how do you read not just this message today, but also the fact that Hegseth, Pete Hegseth, the U.S.
defense secretary, was very much absent today at defense minister's meeting. He didn't show up. What is the message that the U.S. is putting
out? Is -- does this show to you or does it -- do you think it will concern European allies that the U.S. is slowly backing away from Ukraine, or is
this just a diplomatic a position for the time being to try and sway Putin? How do you read it?
POTHIER: Frankly, I think the U.S. -- there's not such a thing as a U.S. policy towards Europe or towards Ukraine and Russia. So, what you're seeing
is a kind of stuck in between a full pullout from Europe and a more frank engagement. And I think they don't really know what they're doing exactly,
because they want to solve the conflict, but they're not doing what it takes, which is mostly leverage and sanctions to actually come and bring
this conflict to an end.
And it falls really on the Europeans to show that they're willing to support all the way Ukraine. And again, that Ukraine is capable of
inflicting cost and damage on Russia to increase the cost of Russia's war in Ukraine. But frankly, the U.S. is missing in action here.
SOARES: Yes. And like we've heard from Hegseth, the burden, as you said, last year for equipping Ukraine should shift to Europe and that is always
the fear. Fabrice Pothier, former head of policy planning in the office of NATO secretary general. Fabrice, thank you very much as always. Appreciate
it.
POTHIER: Thank you.
SOARES: Now, the widow of Alexey Navalny, Yulia Navalnaya says she will launch a new satellite TV channel called "Future of Russia." The channel
will broadcast investigations produced by the late Russian opposition leader and his team while he was alive. Today, would have been Navalny's
49th birthday. He died last February in an Arctic penal colony. Navalnaya says she hopes the channel will build on the foundations of her late
husband's activism.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
YULIA NAVALNAYA, WIDOW OF LATE RUSSIAN OPPOSITION LEADER ALEXEY NAVALNY (through translator): I think it's very important to keep memory about him.
He was a great man to keep legacy -- his legacy, and I am sure that he would be very happy about any new people who can reach the information
about Kremlin regime, about corruption, about war, about everything what's going on right now in Russia.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: And still to come tonight, two Chinese researchers are charged with smuggling what's being described as a potential agro-terrorism weapon. All
the details on this dangerous fungus just ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:45:00]
SOARES: Two Chinese researchers have been charged with smuggling a fungus that they plan to study at University of Michigan lab. The pathogen is
described as, quote, "a potential agro-terrorism weapon" that can cause disease in certain plants like corn, rice, as well as Bali. The charges
comes that Trump administration is looking to revoke visas for Chinese students, including those studying, if you're remembering, quote, "critical
fields."
Our Josh Campbell joins me now live for more. And, Josh, this is very alarming indeed. Just talk us through what you know about these two
researchers and in particular this pathogen.
JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, a very unusual case. And it's important to start at the outset when we talk about agro-terrorism. In
the law enforcement world, that means someone intentionally inserting a pathogen into crops or into the U.S. food supply in order to cause harm.
That is not what federal investigators are charging in this case. So, it's important to note that.
But they do say that this couple allegedly smuggled in this pathogen to the U.S. So, just to kind of describe what this is, it's called fusarium
graminearum. The Justice Department says that it's responsible for billions of dollars in economic losses worldwide each year. They said that the
toxins produced by fusarium can cause vomiting, liver damage and reproductive defects in livestock and in humans.
Now, according to the U.S. Justice Department, what they say is that just about a year ago there was one of these researchers who was trying to
smuggle this material into the U.S. He was stopped at an airport in the State of Michigan where U.S. customs officials actually searched his bag
and found in a crumpled-up tissue that there was some of this material. It is alleged that he was working with his girlfriend, who was another
researcher in order to study that. They have both been charged with visa violations, as well as smuggling. They've also been charged with lying to
federal investigators.
Now, it's important to note here, I'll read you a quote from U.S. Attorney General Pam Bondi. What she said is that, the Department of Justice has no
higher mission than keeping the American people safe and protecting our nation from hostile foreign actors. This defendant, she said, who
clandestinely attempted to bring a destructive substance into the U.S. will face years behind bars.
It's important to note that we don't know if this will go to trial, if there will be eventual conviction or maybe some type of plea. But the just
Justice Department is obviously taking it very seriously.
And then, the final thing I'll note is just from an intelligence and law enforcement standpoint. This is so unusual because this is not what we
typically think of the model with the Chinese government. The FBI has alleged that the Chinese government has worked to exfiltrate sensitive
research from the U.S., essentially steal it for their own purposes. But we don't really see the often the case of, you know, them trying to bring
something into the U.S.
So, again, no indication right now that this was going to be used for some type of harmful purpose. There's no terrorism charge that's been announced
at least as of yet. But because that substance is so dangerous and because it is controlled, they are now facing very serious federal charges.
SOARES: Josh, thank you for laying it all out very clearly for us there. Josh Campbell there.
CAMPBELL: You bet.
SOARES: The woman accused of murdering three guests with a meal laced with death cap mushrooms has taken the stand for a third day. Erin Patterson
testified that she may have accidentally added forage mushrooms to the beef Wellington lunch because the food tasted, quote, "a little bland." She has
denied deliberately killing three of her elderly in-laws and denied attempting to kill another guest. CNN Affiliate Seven Network Australia has
this report from outside the courtroom in Morwell, Australia.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ESTELLE GRIEPINK, REPORTER, SEVEN NETWORK AUSTRALIA: Well, it's been another huge day of evidence here at the so-called mushroom murder trial in
Morwell in Victoria. Erin Patterson has taken to the stand for a third day giving new details about that fatal lunch. Now, she has long said she's not
guilty of the three murders and one attempted murder. Today, she admitted she is a liar, saying that she lied about a number of things to do with
this case.
The first thing she spoke about was that she lied about having ovarian cancer. When she told her lunch guests she had a diagnosis and wanted their
support. She now says that she actually was planning to get gastric bypass surgery, but she was embarrassed by it. So, she wanted to tell her family
that she needed some sort of treatment so that they would provide her with support and compassion.
[14:50:00]
She also has now told the jury that she lied about getting rid of her dehydrator because she was scared, and that was after her estranged
husband, Simon Patterson, accused her of poisoning his parents in the days after the fatal lunch when they were in hospital suffering from multiple
organ failure.
Erin Patterson also teared up today when she spoke about the day that she actually made those beef Wellingtons before her lunch guests came over to
her home. Now, she says she used a recipe from the popular recipe blog, RecipeTin Eats. She made a mushroom mixture to go inside the beef
Wellingtons, but she said she used store-bought mushrooms and that things tasted rather bland. That's when she went to her pantry and got some dried
mushrooms out of a container that she says she thought she purchased from an Asian grocer. But today, she tearfully admitted it's possible that in
that container there were also mushrooms that she'd previously foraged and then dried.
She's now admitted that there must have been death cap mushrooms in the beef Wellington. And today, she sort of alluded to how she thinks they may
have got into the meal. So, Erin Patterson has pleaded not guilty to the three counts of murder and one of attempted murder. The courtroom has been
absolutely packed today. People lining up outside from about 5:00 a.m. to try and get a seat. She will be back in court tomorrow to give some more
evidence before cross-examination begins.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOARES: Our thanks to Estelle there for that report. And still to come tonight, one elephant just can't resist when a snack attack hits. More on
that and we'll tell you, of course, who ended up paying his bill. A very large bill, I suspect. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: A massive dust cloud from the Sahara Desert is sweeping across the Caribbean. It stretches more than 2,000 miles, and it's prompting air
quality alerts. The so-called Saharan air layer forms each year, creating very much hazy skies, as well as vivid sunsets. Satellite imagery shows the
plume, as you can see there, of dry air and dust drifting westwards towards the United States. It is expected to reach Florida and the Gulf Coast in
the coming days.
And here in the U.K., British pop star, Jessie J has revealed that she is battling breast cancer. The singer who is known for a hit "Price Tag" says
she will have surgery soon and emphasized that cancer was caught early. Jessie J says cancer sucks in any form, but as she's holding on to the
world early. We wish her the very best, of course, in this journey.
[14:55:00]
Now, Meghan, the Duchess of Sussex, is sharing a birthday photo of Princess Lilibet. This picture was posted on Meghan's Instagram celebrating her
daughter's fourth birthday. Lilibet was born a year after Meghan and Harry, the Duke of Sussex. Stepped back as senior royals and moved to the United
States. Meghan and Harry have closely guarded the privacy of both their daughter and her older brother, Archie. They are beautiful photos.
And finally, tonight, even elephants get their munchies it seems. Take a look at this. A wild elephant walks into a Thai convenience store. No, it's
not a joke. And he helps himself to about 10 bags of sweets before local park rangers cokes him out. A national park is nearby. So, the 27-year-old
elephant is actually well known in the area. And some good news for the shop owner, a wildlife protection group later paid for the treats saying
they were sponsoring the elephant's snack bill. Hope it was healthy and not just sweets.
That does it for us for tonight. Do stay right here. "What We Know" with my colleague Max Foster is up next. Have a wonderful day us. I shall see you
tomorrow. Bye-bye.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:00:00]
END