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Isa Soares Tonight
Israel Facing Increasing Pressure to Allow More Aid into Gaza; Da Silva Says What's Happening in Gaza is "Not a War"; Erin Patterson Cross- Examined in Trial; German Chancellor Friedrich Merz Meets Trump for the First Time at the Oval Office; Pressure Mounts on Israel to Allow More Aid into Gaza; Trump and Musk Escalate Public Feud Over Agenda Bill. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired June 05, 2025 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00]
ISA SOARES, HOST, ISA SOARES TONIGHT: A very warm welcome to the show, everyone, I'm Isa Soares. Tonight, it's Merz's turn in the Oval Office at a
critical moment for Europe and the United States. What the German chancellor's meeting means for Trans-Atlantic relations. That's just ahead.
Then international pressure mounts on Israel to allow more aid into Gaza. A British surgeon joins me live with a testimony of just how dire the
situation is. And gunned down during a TikTok livestream. The shooting of Mexican beauty influencer Valeria Marquez puts the spotlight on femicide.
We have a special report from Mexico City.
But we begin this hour at the White House and the high stakes meeting between U.S. President Donald Trump and German Chancellor Friedrich Merz.
The meeting comes amid somewhat strained relations between the U.S. and Europe over everything, really, from tariffs to NATO defense spending to
the Russia-Ukraine war, you name it.
The German leader doubled down on his country's support for Kyiv, while Mr. Trump was pressed by reporters on whether he will follow through on his
vow, if you remember, to issue more sanctions on Russia, if the fighting doesn't end soon. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: When I see the moment when we're not going to make a deal, when this thing won't stop --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sir --
TRUMP: And that moment -- yes, it's in my brain, the deadline. When I see the moment where it's not going to stop, and I'm sure you're going to do
the same thing, will be very tough. And it could be on both countries, to be honest. You know, it takes two to tango, but they'll be -- we're going
to be very tough, whether it's Russia or anybody else, we're going to be very tough. That's a bloodbath that's going on over there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Well, at one point, the President compared Russia and Ukraine to two young children fighting, quote, "like crazy". Among the many other
topics covered in the Oval Office, the President's one-time bromance with Elon Musk, a relationship that now appears to be turning sour after the
tech billionaire launched an online attack on Mr. Trump's so-called Big Beautiful Bill.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Look, Elon and I had a great relationship. I don't know if we will anymore. I was surprised because you were here, everybody in this room
practically was here as we had a wonderful send-off, he said wonderful things about me, you couldn't have nicer, said the best things, he's worn
that hat.
Trump was right about everything, and I am right about the great, Big Beautiful Bill. We call it a great Big Beautiful Bill because that's what
it is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Well, Musk, for his part, is rejecting the President's claim that he had seen the bill before the House passed it. We've got reactions, as
you can imagine, from both sides of the Atlantic. CNN's Fred Pleitgen is in Berlin now, Nic Robertson is right here with us in London. But first, I
want to go to White House and to CNN's Kevin Liptak.
And Kevin, we'll talk about Musk in just a moment. But first, let's start with Chancellor Merz and that meeting at the Oval Office. A civilized
meeting for once, I think, and the -- and President Trump really, the first time we're hearing from him this week. And really, what I heard from him
very much focused on Ukraine.
And today, he was pushed on Ukraine, and from what I heard, he was -- he refused to be drawn on the questions of sanctions against Putin. Talk us
through what we heard on that front first of all.
KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yes, and I'll just note that Merz is on his way out of the White House now. The two men just had a private
lunch after what we saw in the Oval Office. You know, I think Merz came to Washington really trying to impress on Donald Trump the importance of
continued American assistance to Ukraine, but also the necessity for new punishment and new measures against Moscow.
And I'm not sure he got guarantees on either of those fronts, despite his - - how cordial this meeting sort of appeared from the outside, it doesn't seem as if Donald Trump is any more interested as he was before this, in
applying new sanctions on Russia. He said that he has in his mind a date by which he'll do that when it seems clear that this war is not going to end.
[14:05:00]
But that he wouldn't state that out loud, and that for now, he seems willing to act as essentially a bystander as the two sides continue to
fight, as in his words, they resemble kids fighting on a hockey rink or on a playing field. You know, it's such a striking evolution from when the
President came into office and said that he would be able to resolve this conflict in 24 hours to now, today, saying that he is just going to act as
essentially a bystander, throw his hands up and watch the two sides battle it out.
I think that is going to be a disappointment for Merz. You know, he came in here armed with examples of the way the United States has helped Europe out
in the past, pointing, for example, to the 81st anniversary of D-day, which comes tomorrow, saying that this was an example of the role that America
can have in liberating Europe.
The President really did not seem moved by any of that, and I think it just goes to show how frustrated he is at this whole situation, and how willing
he is to kind of give up the mediating role that he once said that he would play.
SOARES: Yes, and the sanctions, on the date of the sanctions. He said the date is in my head. This is what we heard from the President. Let me go to
Fred. Fred, Chancellor Merz emerged, I think, unscathed, and he decided and he chose, I should say, not to challenge President Trump and probably had
to bite his tongue a couple of times, specifically when he was referring to what, you know, Kevin just mentioned, and this analogy of comparing --
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes --
SOARES: Russia's invasion to two children fighting in a park. How do you think the chancellor fared on Ukraine, and how --
PLEITGEN: Yes --
SOARES: He fared in standing up for Ukraine here?
PLEITGEN: Well, I think certainly quite well from the perspective of Friedrich Merz. And I think one of the things that he had in mind when he
went into that meeting is when -- to speak as little as possible, just to make sure that the situation didn't get out of hand like for instance, it
did with the Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, but also with the leader of South Africa as well.
That was definitely something that the German chancellor wanted to avoid. It was spoken about this entire week in the German press. There were people
hired to give him advice on how to deal with President Trump. And so, they're by and large, I think right now, the echo that we're getting here
in Germany, and I think from the U.S. as well, is that it went as well as it could have gone in that public meeting with President Trump and that
very long interaction with the press as well.
And I think Ukraine is really one of those topics, though, where Friedrich Merz did speak out and make very clear that Germany stands on the side of
Ukraine. It was specifically, I think, that example that you were just speaking about when President Trump came out and said that it was basically
like two kids fighting on a playground, I think was the analogy that he used, that sometimes you just have to let them fight as President Trump
there put it.
It was then that Friedrich Merz said, look, from Germany's perspective, the Ukrainians are not the ones who are attacking civilians. The Ukrainians are
not the ones who are attacking Russian cities or energy infrastructure. And so, therefore, the Germans stand squarely on the side of the Ukrainians,
and of course, at various points, as Kevin was saying there, he did say that the U.S. was the country that could play an overarching and very
powerful role in trying to mediate and stop this conflict.
Obviously, from a German perspective, they are trying to get President Trump more back on the side of the Europeans, who of course, are very much
on the side of Ukraine. Whether or not he's made any headway there is unclear, but certainly, he is getting some high marks for essentially
sticking up for the things that he would stick up for, specifically Germany being in Ukraine's corner in all of this.
SOARES: Indeed, let me turn to Nic Robertson. And Nic, this meeting with the chancellor happening, of course, is defense meet -- Defense Ministers
have been meeting, and we heard from Secretary Hegseth who has been calling, as you and I discussed, and came in no surprise for nations to be
spending 5 percent of GDP on defense.
We did hear Trump say today -- President Trump say that Germany's defense- spending increase is positive. But, you know, just speak to the -- how realistic that is, because yesterday, Germany's Defense Minister, Pistorius
was saying that 5 percent wasn't even realistic. So, talk us through the timeline here and how allies are reacting to that?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, there's a couple of things we learned today about this 5 percent from Mark Rutte; the NATO
Secretary-General, and he said the 5 percent is 3.5 percent of core defense spending, which is equivalent, he said, to that 2 percent target that NATO
had, that most countries reached by 2024, that was the target, it took a long time to get there.
And then the other 1.5 percent is sort of defense and security infrastructure, and you know, combating cyber attacks, combating hybrid
warfare, things that are not always thought of as the sort of core defense spending like tanks, like armored personnel carriers like artillery and
troops. And it was actually interesting listening to Mark Rutte as well, speaking specifically about the case of the Germans, and talking about how
significant their uplift and their turnaround in their defense spending is planned to be.
[14:10:00]
And he gave that as an example of how much countries can do. But it was very clear that Russia sort of learning from the past and trying to show to
President Trump that he has the sort of NATO allies in a sort of a framework to get to that 5 percent by saying they'll have to lay out their
plans for this year-by-year-by-year.
So, looking at a more deliverable target date, but still not giving that target date. And I think in that context there, you have an understanding
that agreement hasn't been come to, that this isn't going to be easy, and Germany's aspiration is not going to be an easy one. And you have, in fact,
on top of that, you have the NATO Secretary-General Rutte, doing a tour of European capitals next week, starting with London on Monday, going on to
Rome and other -- and other cities.
He needs to beat his war drum, the one he's been talking about today, that all these countries need to get on a war footing. And this is the drive
from the U.S., that Russia --
SOARES: Yes --
ROBERTSON: Is retooling and rearming, and they need to be ready for it.
SOARES: And important to point out, not even the U.S. is meeting the 5 percent either on GDP on defense. So, that is important. Let me go back to
Kevin, Kevin Liptak at the White House. And Kevin, this is more focused on domestic concerns. We mentioned Musk here. And it seems to me from what I
heard in that press conference -- in fact, from what we all heard that, that friendship, the Musk-Trump friendship is officially on the rocks.
And it's all because, of course, of Trump's big -- what he calls Big Beautiful Bill. In fact, in the last hour, I believe that Musk has been
tweeting yet again from what we heard from the President, he's tweeted, without me, Trump would have lost the election. Dems would control the
House and the Republicans would be 51-49. And even said that such ingratitude as you're seeing there. This is escalating rather quickly. Just
give us a sense --
LIPTAK: Yes --
SOARES: Of how the President, how the administration is reacting, because it was such a different picture this time last week, Kevin.
LIPTAK: Yes, I would say that we're well beyond on the rocks. I would say we have crashed fully into the rocks, and the relationship is on the bottom
of the ocean. And it is remarkable how quickly it escalated. You know, we went into today having a policy dispute between these two men, Musk
criticizing the President's massive legislation because it would expand the deficit in a matter of hours.
It's gotten incredibly personal. The President -- Elon Musk accusing the President of sort of ignorance on policy, but also saying that he wouldn't
have won the election without his help. The President, you know, going after Musk, for example, for not wearing eye makeup in the Oval Office when
he had a black eye last week.
This is an incredible rupture in the relationship that had been so essential to the early months of this administration. Elon Musk was
essentially Donald Trump's shadow here at the White House. He did spend $260 million to help Donald Trump and Republicans get elected in last
year's election. But it's very evident that it's all now come to an end.
The President is accusing Musk of opposing this bill for reasons of self- interest, because it strips away some of the tax credit for electric vehicles that would have a negative effect on Tesla; Elon Musk's car
company. Musk has acknowledged that that's a problem, but he says that this bill amounts to a mountain of disgusting pork, and that would expand the
deficit.
I think the real question for the President is whether this will have any effect on the Republican senators who are now deciding how to vote on this
legislation. Do they go with the President and the significant political influence that he has within the base of the party, or do they go with
Musk, who is threatening to put his money behind challengers to anyone who votes for this bill.
It's a conundrum that Republicans will have to figure out. But certainly, here in Washington, it is this very public break-up that I think has a lot
of people's tongues wagging this morning or this afternoon --
SOARES: Yes, a relationship that didn't last what? Last almost six months or so. So, continue --
LIPTAK: Yes --
SOARES: Well, let's get popcorn, I think this is bound to last. Thank you very much, Kevin Liptak as well. To our correspondents Fred Pleitgen and
Nic Robertson. Thank you to you both. Well, amid a very fragile trade truce between the U.S. and China, President Trump spoke by phone earlier today
with Chinese leader Xi Jinping.
In a social media post, Mr. Trump says trade talks will be held shortly between the two countries. He wrote that the 90 minutes call, which he
described as very positive for both countries, was focused entirely on trade. China's Foreign Ministry said the call came at the U.S. President's
request. In an Oval Office press conference later, Mr. Trump called the Chinese President a great leader.
And it comes a day, if you remember, after he called President Xi a very tough and extremely hard to make a deal with in a separate online post.
Well, after this weekend, a new travel ban -- Trump, I should say, travel ban is set to go into effect for nearly 20 nations. And here we're going to
show you here, you can see exactly who is being targeted with either full, as you can see there in red or partial in yellow restrictions.
[14:15:00]
For all but four of the 19 countries, the administration points to high rates of nationals overstaying their visas in the United States. President
Trump is using the recent attack in Boulder, Colorado, as justification for the bans. But the suspect is from Egypt, a country that is not on the list.
On Wednesday, Mr. Trump suggested this ban may only be the beginning.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: New countries can be added as threats emerge around the world, but we will not allow people to enter our country who wish to do us harm.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Let's get more on this. Kristen Holmes is covering this story for us from the White House. So, Kristen, you know, when we look at the map of
these countries, I'm just going to ask my producer also if she can bring that up again, what they seem to have 12 countries have in common is that
they either were -- are war-torn countries or countries of history of terrorism.
How exactly did the administration, as we look at these countries right now, the full restriction, the partial restriction, how did the
administration come up with this list?
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's the big question right now, is how exactly they got to these countries. And of
course, what you just talked about is one of the reasons why we are wondering how they got there. They are using -- "they" being the
administration, are using this attack in Boulder, Colorado, as something that they say set this all in motion.
However, the person there who had entered the country and had overstayed their visa was Egyptian, and Egypt is not on either of these lists. And
Donald Trump was asked specifically about that, and he seemed to imply that Egypt had it together as a country, that they had a working relationship
with Egypt, which really lends credence to this idea that maybe this is not just about bringing people into the United States and people who overstay
their visa, but also being used as some kind of tool or leverage tool for the United States.
If you have a working relationship with the United States, somehow you might not end up on this list. However, if you don't or if you -- if you
don't, you know, work with the United States, then you could end up on this list. So, just to go through exactly where the countries are, because
there's two sections here you mentioned.
The first one is, there are these 12 countries where nationals will be completely and fully restricted from coming into the U.S., and that is
Afghanistan, Myanmar, Chad, the Republic of Congo, Equatorial Guinea, Eritrea, Haiti, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and Yemen. Then you have the
sections, the separate section, which is the seven countries that have partial restrictions, and that's like visa restrictions, for example, that
is Burundi, Cuba, Laos, Sierra Leone, Togo, Turkmenistan and Venezuela.
Now, one thing I want to note is that they say that this is going to -- this proclamation is going to -- excuse me, include exceptions for lawful
permanent residents, and that includes existing visa holders or certain visa categories, and individuals whose entry serves U.S. national
interests. But if you go back to what happened the first time, there is likely to be a lot of chaos as they figure out how exactly to make this
work.
We saw that the first time around, and it's possible that there's also going to be legal ramifications or at least legal cases brought against
this travel ban, as we see them try to work this out and put this into place.
SOARES: Thank you very -- thank you very much. Kristen Holmes there with the very latest. Well, President Trump is also suspending international
visas for new students at America's oldest university. Mr. Trump's proclamation from Wednesday once again targeting students aiming to attend
Harvard University.
The White House accuses Harvard of having, quote, "foreign ties and radicalism". In response to this escalating dispute, the Ivy league school
says that President Trump's latest move is yet another example of illegal retaliation. The U.S. Supreme Court has handed down a series of significant
decisions earlier today, we didn't get the eagerly-anticipated rulings on birthright citizenship or states that ban gender affirming cares -- care in
minors.
Those will almost certainly come in the next few weeks or so as the court wraps up this term. Among today's decisions, though, was a key case on
reverse discrimination. And it came from a woman who claimed workplace bias. She says she was denied promotion in favor of gay candidates because
she is straight.
The court reached a unanimous decision that there is not a higher bar to reach to prove reverse discrimination. In another unanimous decision, the
court threw out a lawsuit by Mexico on whether U.S. gun manufacturers can be held liable for the weapons they produce. Mexico wanted to sue gun
companies, accusing them of aiding and abetting gun violence in Mexico.
The court found that the lawsuit is barred by a 2005 federal law shielding gun companies from legal liability. And still to come tonight, what a new
CNN analysis of video, audio and ballistics evidence reveals about a deadly shooting over the weekend that, according to the Palestinian Health
Ministry and hospital officials, left at least 31 people dead near a food distribution site in Gaza. That exclusive report after this short break.
[14:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: Well, we've learned a controversial aid operation reopened two of its sites in southern Gaza today after a day long hiatus. The U.S. and
Israel-backed Gaza Humanitarian Foundation says aid distribution was completed within an hour. Wednesday's pause followed three straight days
though, of Palestinians coming under deadly gunfire on their way to a food distribution site.
The GHF said it would use the time to focus on logistical work to better handle the massive number of Palestinians seeking food. Also, the
foundation said, to give Israeli forces the opportunity to make, quote, "preparations on the access routes to the centers". The first shooting, if
you remember, was on Sunday.
The Palestinian Health Ministry and officials -- hospital officials say at least 31 people were killed. The Israeli military has said its forces did
not fire on Palestinians at or near the distribution site. CNN's Jeremy Diamond has new expert analysis of the sound video as well as eyewitness
accounts of what happened. Here's his exclusive report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Palestinians take cover as pulses of automatic gunfire crackle overhead. Others try and
crawl to safety as explosions ring out. For several hours on Sunday, this was the terrifying reality hungry Gazans faced as they tried to reach an
American-backed humanitarian aid site in southern Gaza.
"We are bringing our food drenched in blood. We are dying to get food", Amin Khalifa(ph) says amid a hail of gunfire. The aftermath is grisly.
Bullet-riddled bodies lie scattered on the beach as others emerge carrying sacks of aid these men died trying to get. Health officials and doctors
report at least 31 were killed, 17 eyewitnesses told CNN it was the Israeli military that opened fire on the crowd.
A CNN analysis of video from the scene, audio of gunfire and ballistics evidence all point to the Israeli military. In Gaza, more families made to
mourn. "They lure us in just to kill us there", this man says. "What's happening is wrong! Why are they doing this? We go there just to get our
daily bread and they kill us."
[14:25:00]
In the pre-dawn hours of Sunday, masses of Palestinians began trekking down Al Rashid Street, hoping to be among the first to reach the Gaza
Humanitarian Foundation site in Tel al-Sultan before limited aid supplies run dry. But as they reach the Al-Alam roundabout, a hail of gunfire forces
people to the ground. Eyewitnesses say much of the gunfire came from tank- mounted machine guns.
(on camera): We asked a forensic audio expert to analyze the gunfire in that video, and this analysis shows bursts of gunfire at a rate of 15
rounds per second. Weapons experts say that's consistent with the FN MAG, a machine gun used by the Israeli military, and commonly mounted on Israeli
tanks.
Those experts say that rate of fire also appears to rule out weapons used commonly by Hamas. And then you have bullets like this one, which doctors
at Nasser Hospital pulled from the bodies of the dead and the wounded. Weapons experts also say this bullet is consistent with the FN MAG.
(voice-over): The Israeli military said they did not fire at civilians while they were near or within the aid site, but that statement is
misleading. An Israeli military official acknowledged Israeli troops did fire toward people about 1 kilometer away from the aid site. The Al Alam
roundabout where people were killed, is also about 1 kilometer away from the site.
This entire area with an Israeli military base right here is under Israeli control. This post warns the Israeli military would be active in the area
at the time of the shooting. It's from the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation, which operates the aid site and closely coordinates with the IDF, alerting
Palestinians that using the passage before 5:00 a.m. is prohibited.
But they posted it at 4:00 a.m. as people were already being fired upon. Eyewitnesses described volleys of Israeli military gunfire from snipers,
tanks and drones beginning as early as 3:00 a.m. on Sunday. More were shot at 4:30 a.m., others described being shot as late as 6:30 in the morning.
"They were shooting directly at us everywhere", this man says.
"From the sea, from snipers and from all directions." Four people were injured and one was immediately killed. I tried to stand up and escape or
go back, but I was hit in my left side. I've seen a lot of soldiers in this war. When they want to clear an area or warn you, they shoot around you.
But yesterday, they were shooting to kill us."
At Nasser Hospital, fear and pain are still etched across the face of 13- year-old Yazeed Muslih(ph), who was wounded by gunfire from a tank his father and brother say was stationed near the aid site. "I saw the tank
from afar", Ehab(ph) says. He was standing, waving his hands to the tank, and within seconds gunfire was directed at him and he was lying on the
ground.
Two days later, despite the dangers, tens of thousands of Palestinians continued to stream towards that same aid site, a testament to the hunger
and desperation still gripping so many. And once again, in the early hours of Tuesday, dozens were killed en route. This time, the Israeli military
acknowledging it fired warning shots and then opened fire, claiming suspects advanced towards troops in a threatening manner.
The military said it was looking into reports of casualties. It need look no further than this boy crying out over his mother's body, begging her to
wake up. "Today, she went to get aid. She went to get aid to feed us", he cries, and this is what they do to us. The Americans said, come to the safe
area to get your aid. Who should trust them?"
As for Amin Khalifa(ph), the man who documented Sunday's gunfire, his quest for survival ended abruptly on Tuesday. He was killed while trying to reach
that aid site once again. He was 30 years old.
(on camera): The Israeli military declined to answer questions related to our findings, but as recently as Tuesday, the Israeli military's top
spokesman, General Effie Defrin categorically denied that the Israeli military opened fire on Sunday, saying it quote, "simply didn't happen."
But after a week during which more than 60 people were killed while trying to make it to that aid site, according to the Palestinian Ministry of
Health, the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation now says it is having conversations with the Israeli military to, quote, "support civilian's
safety".
Among them, a spokesman tells me that they are asking the Israeli military to, quote, "enhance force training and refine internal IDF procedures.
Jeremy Diamond, CNN, Jerusalem.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOARES: Well, some Palestinians say they have no choice but to put themselves in harm's way to try to access that limited food. For months
Israel enforced a total blockade on all aid into Gaza. The very basics really of life. Countries around the world are pressuring Israel to flood
Gaza with aid to meet the needs of more than 2 million people. Today, the German, as well as Israeli foreign ministers met in Berlin.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHANN WADEPHUL, GERMAN FOREIGN MINISTER (through translator): I'm also worried about the people in Gaza who don't know how to get food and
medicine. People who walk long distances to reach aid distribution centers and come back empty handed. In the worst cases, they don't come back at all
because they've been killed. This also happens far too often. These pictures from Gaza are shocking and they show what is currently reaching
Gaza in terms of humanitarian aid. It is too little. And that's why I renewed my urgent plea in our conversation today.
GIDEON SAAR, ISRAELI FOREIGN MINISTER: Certain concerns, we hear these concerns, and I think we are giving also a good reply. And we will continue
to do it and we will continue to meet our obligations in respect of course international law.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Some leaders are demanding an end the war itself. But Brazil's president today said the word doesn't even suffice. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LUIZ INACIO LULA DA SILVA, BRAZILIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): What's happening in Gaza is not a war. What's happening in Gaza is a
genocide conducted by a highly prepared army against women and children. That's what's happening. And this is what humanity should be outraged by.
It's by this that society should feel outraged.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: President Lula da Silva there. And still ahead right here on the show, we'll speak to a British surgeon who just returned from Gaza. She
says she saw very small children with massive injuries, calling this situation barbaric. We'll have her -- we'll hear from her after this short
break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:35:00]
SCIUTTO: Welcome back, everyone. Doctors Without Borders says all of the red lines in Gaza have been crossed. It is demanding the world take action
to, quote, "end this carnage." Dozens of the charity staff members protested, as you can see there, outside the U.N.'s Geneva headquarters
today, saying the new aid distribution mechanism in Gaza is costing lives. A U.S.-Israeli-backed foundation reopened two sites today distributing food
for just one hour.
Early in the week, if you remember, dozens of people were killed when they came under fire while trying to approach aid sites. Doctors Without Borders
says no one should be forced to run a gauntlet of bullets to get their bread to feed the children.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHEN CORNISH, DIRECTOR GENERAL, DOCTORS WITHOUT BORDERS, SWITZERLAND: It is inconceivable that there's anything about humanitarian, about such a
treatment of people. People need not only all the basics of life, but they also need it indignity. And if you're fearing for your life, running with
packages, being mowed down, this is just something that is completely beyond everything we've ever seen, and that's why we've come here today
because we believe all the red lines have been crossed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Well, Doctors Without Borders also says some medics in Gaza are having to give their own blood to help the injured because most
Palestinians are too malnourished, as we've heard here on the show, to donate themselves.
I'm joined now by Dr. Victoria Rose, a British surgeon who just returned from Gaza and witnessed some truly horrific scenes. And you would've known
that if you were following her on social media. And that's, you know, how we really, in many ways, our eyes and ears on the ground and we're
incredibly grateful that you are here with us.
And we have seen doctors some -- and heard, I should say, some truly heart wrenching reports and -- from not just our reporters, but also from doctors
and NGOs on the ground. I think we had Dr. Tom Potokar, I think it was two days ago, who was basically talking about the emergency department at
Nasser Hospital. He said it was absolute carnage when he was there just in the last couple of days. You were there, I think three weeks, right?
DR. VICTORIA ROSE, BRITISH SURGEON: Yes.
SOARES: Can you tell us what those three weeks, in particular the last few days have been like?
DR. ROSE: Yes, I was there with Tom, actually. So, we were in the emergency department together. It was carnage. That day was particularly
bad, but I have to say it's the worst it's ever been since I've been going to Gaza.
We were last there in August, and the number of casualties that we saw on this mission has skyrocketed, particularly the number of children. We were
running an operating list in our theater block, which just had plastics and orthopedics, and we would have 10 patients on that list. And every day, at
least half of them were under the age of 10. It was really shocking. So, very small children with very significant injuries.
SOARES: And I was -- we played, I think it was last week the Palestinian ambassador to the U.N., who kind of broke down when he spoke, when you
addressed -- you remember that when you addressed the U.N. and he said, and I'm quoting his figures here, that since Israel ended the ceasefire in
March, speaking exactly about children, that more than 1,306 -- 1,300 children had died.
You were very much on those frontlines. Can you speak to the injuries that you saw on the children that you were trying to stay alive, keep alive?
DR. ROSE: Well, all of the injuries that we saw in the children were caused mainly by blasts, and that does two things. It either causes a burn
and the burns that it causes are quite significant. So, we were seeing things like a 35 percent burn in a three-year-old, which if that happened
in the U.K., that's 50-50 chance of survival. So, out there, the odds are much, much lower.
The other injuries are, they were more direct blast injuries than August. In August, we saw a lot of shrapnel wounds. So, obviously, when the bomb
goes off, whatever's around you gets whipped up and ejected at very high speed, and that hits the civilians and it will either penetrate the
abdomen, chest, or head, which normally kills you, or it will hit you in a limb and break a bone and destroy some tissue. That was the bulk of what we
saw in the August.
[14:40:00]
But this time we saw a lot more seemingly direct hits. So, children with literally limbs blown off. We had a seven-year-old on the operating table
and she'd taken a hit to her knee. And when we -- dressing down, she had lost her knee and the shin bone down to the mid of her leg. There was no
skin, no bone. And I was looking at the muscles in the back of her leg from the front, which is anatomically very unusual. And the three of us
operating, we just couldn't believe that this could have happened from a shrapnel wound. It's --
SOARES: How do you -- first of all, how do you deal with that every day, you and your team? And you took a photo, I remember, of you and the team
doing this, working through this. And they're going through their own daily challenges, right, to feed their families, keeping themselves alive,
keeping their families alive.
But also, on a day-to-day basis, do you have the equipment given, you know, that so much hasn't gone in and the blockade has been in place, `help these
young children?
DR. ROSE: We always try and take as much as we can in, but obviously, the situations change since the Rafah Border closed. So, you're only allowed to
take one bag with you and it has to weigh 23 kilos. But we do always manage to take instruments in because that's a vital issue for us. If we get there
and we haven't got the kit we need to do the operations with, you know, we're virtually useless.
But what really hampered us this time was the consumables because we very rarely take consumables because it's too much to put in a bag. And we were
running out of things left, right, and center and improvising, which was fine initially, but then we started running out of scalpel blades and we
ran out of drapes. So, we were using gowns for drapes. And then, we were watering down the antiseptic solutions that you used to prep a patient
before theater.
But the hardest thing for us was the drugs. We -- they'd run out of so many drugs. I think it --
SOARES: Such as?
DR. ROSE: There's -- they estimated that they'd run out of 47 percent of what they were calling essential drugs. Now, for us in the operating room,
we noticed anesthetic agents were really low. So, most people were given sedation first. And if we could do the operation on sedation alone, that's
how we would do it. And obviously, if that was deemed to be insufficient because the operation was going to take longer or because the patient was
uncomfortable, then they would get out the general anesthetic agents.
But the antibiotics were a real concern because there were only three different types left and none of them would've been the antibiotics that we
would've chosen for wounds in that environment. And obviously, everybody's been displaced about 15 times now. Everybody's living in tents. There's no
sanitation. Clean water is very rare. So, the wounds are really filthy. They're being bonded in the tents, the dirt's going in the wound, and your
job is to try and clean it, give them appropriate antibiotics and get them fit for the reconstruction. And we just were failing really.
SOARES: The fact -- and I got a press release from OCHA today speaking exactly about what they had seen, but also about malnourishment, which I
thought was staggering, because, of course, those were not dying because they can't their hands on food as we have seen, as we have heard as well,
they are starving.
OCHA is saying that 2,700 children under the age of five were diagnosed with acute malnutrition just in the second half of May. That has an impact
on the job that you do because operations, because of recovery, speak to that.
DR. ROSE: That has a huge effect on what we do. And it's not only that the children are a smaller for their heightened weight than say their Western
counterparts, but malnutrition causes problems with cell turnover and wound healing. If you don't have the essential nutrients and vitamins, you cannot
repair your cells.
But more importantly, malnutrition causes a dampening of the immune system. You just cannot mount that immune response any longer. And so, that coupled
with the poor conditions that they're in and then the lack of antibiotics meant that we were really suffering with infection. And we lost one seven-
year-old girl to overwhelming sepsis that I know would not have happened if she'd have been in the U.K.
SOARES: That seven-year-old story and so many others, that must stay with you. And I can't imagine how hard it is for you to have left Gaza. In fact,
I saw your video on Instagram where you were saying goodbye, and I know how hard that was, those words and how much that meant to you, and also your
colleagues. Can you speak to that?
[14:45:00]
DR. ROSE: I think the biggest issue for us leaving Nasser was that we were in such a precarious position when we were there. So, we were almost in the
act of fighting zone. It had come right up to the square that we were in. They've sort of designated Gaza into squares as part of the military
operation and we were square 107 and all the squares on two sides of us were red. And we were aware that it was likely that Nasser would become
active fighting zone and we may have to evacuate.
For some reason that didn't happen until the night that we left, but the implication of the fact that it's in the active fighting zone now is huge.
And it's not that they've had to evacuate because they've specifically said you don't have to evacuate, that you're in the active fighting zone. But
that now means it's incredibly dangerous for our local colleagues to get in and out of Nasser. They have to -- a lot of them are living in Deir al
Balah, in the midland because that's one of the safest places due to the fact that all the NGO offices and OCHA and the United Nations are there.
So, they're coming in, and the NGOs will put on buses for the nurses and doctors that work at Nasser to transport them from Deir al Balah into Khan
Younis. Now, that journey has to be deconflicted. And we spoke to some colleagues yesterday who said they got on the bus at 6:00 in the morning
and at 11:00 their journey still hadn't been deconflicted. And so, they ended up turning around and going back to Deir al Balah.
So, that's the hospital now without staff. And then the next thing, because it's in an active fighting zone, it's likely to take damage to its
generator, its water supply and it's -- you can see that it's gradually going to get strangled.
SOARES: One of very few intact hospitals left.
DR. ROSE: Yes.
SOARES: Dr. Victoria Rose, I assume you will try to go back again?
DR. ROSE: If they'll let me.
SOARES: If they'll let you, like so many who have been denied. Thank you very much and thank you for your service. Thank you.
DR. ROSE: Thank you.
SOARES: We're going to take a short break. We'll be back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: And this is just in CNN. We're getting some comments from President Donald Trump on Truth Social there, as you can see. I'm going to
read it to you. He writes, Elon -- as Elon Musk, he's referring to, was, quote, "wearing thin." I asked him to leave. I took away his EV mandate
that forced everyone to buy electric cars that nobody else wanted, that he knew for months I was going to do, and he just went crazy.
He then tweeted and said -- he then put on Truth Social, the easiest way to save money in our budget billions and billions of dollars is to terminate
Elon's governmental subsidies and contract. I was always surprised that Biden didn't do it.
[14:50:00]
So, let's add context here to why we are seeing this feud really explode in front of our very eyes. And rather quickly in the last, what, hour and a
half to two hours, President Donald Trump sitting along alongside the German chancellor, Merz, was asked repeatedly about his relationship with
Musk, given Musk's comments over the last few days on X. President Trump said he was very disappointed, were his words, with Elon Musk. Has of
course Musk continues to blast the President's tax and spending cuts package. Trump then said he and Musk had a great relationship, but I don't
know if we'll anymore.
Well, it's clear that that relationship is deteriorating. In fact, it's on the rocks with that relationship clearly exploding on social media. The
question now is what impact this will have on the -- on President Trump's pretty large tax and spending cuts package. We'll stay across this feud, of
course, and how that deteriorates because it was a very different relationship, if you remember, from a week or so ago.
I want to turn to Australia, because the Australian woman, if you remember, accused of killing three of her in-laws with poisonous mushrooms was cross-
examined today where she acknowledged misleading police on a number of claims she made. CNN's Will Ripley has more for you.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WILL RIPLEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: This case really is captivating Australia. A mother of two wept on the witness stand Thursday
as her defense team asked her to again deny killing three of her in-laws with a meal containing the deadly poison of a mushroom.
In 2023, Erin Patterson served individually portioned beef Wellingtons at a family lunch in the small Australian town of Leongatha. Invited to the
table were Don and Gail Patterson, the elderly parents of her separated husband, Simon. Alongside them, Gail's sister, Heather Wilkinson, and her
husband Ian, the local church pastor.
Their meal contained a deadly ingredient, death cap mushrooms. The world's most poisonous fungi. It grows in the area around that Australian town.
Prosecutors say only Erin survived the lunch unscathed. Don, Gail, and Heather were all killed by the mushrooms. Ian did survive, but only after
weeks of intense hospital treatment.
The question of whether Patterson deliberately added death cap mushrooms to the beef Wellington or by accident has really captivated Australia.
Patterson says she used store-bought mushrooms, but then added dried mushrooms from her cupboard for extra flavor. Those mushrooms, she admits,
may have included some she picked herself as part of her foraging hobby. She acknowledges there were death caps in the dry mushroom mix, but that
she never meant to pick those.
So, here's the key question, Patterson ate the food herself. So, how did she survive when the other lunch guests were killed? On Wednesday
afternoon, Patterson said she had not eaten too much of the beef Wellington, and she said she was eating it very slowly. Patterson then said
that while cleaning up from lunch, she actually binged on leftover dessert, eating almost an entire cake, and then forcing herself to throw it up in
line with her earlier experiences of the eating disorder bulimia.
Patterson says she was sick and eventually did go to the hospital, but that was not before disposing of a dehydrating device that she says she
routinely used to dry out mushrooms from her foraging trips. Police later found that dehydrator at the local dump with Patterson's fingerprints all
over it and traces of death cap.
The lone survivor of the lunch, Ian Wilkinson, gave evidence that his wife noticed something. Erin was eating from a different colored plate than the
other guests. The case is set to run through the month when a jury will then have to decide whether Patterson accidentally added poison mushrooms
to the meal or put them there on purpose.
Will Ripley, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOARES: And we'll have much more after this short break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:55:00]
SOARES: And finally, tonight, a once in a lifetime chance for luxury fashion lovers out there. Auction house Sotherby's is selling the original
Hermes Birkin bag. The black saddle stitched handbag was inspired by the late actor and singer Jane Birkin. Her bag will be part of the Sotherby's
Fashion Icon Sale on July 10th. No doubt the Max Foster will bebe snapping it up.
That does it for us. Max Foster is up next with "What We Know."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:00:00]
END