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Isa Soares Tonight

Humanitarian Crisis In Gaza Deepens; Justice Department Officials Meet With Epstein Aide Ghislaine Maxwell; Martial Law Declared In Parts Of Thailand As Tensions With Cambodia Remain On A Knife Edge; President Trump En Route To Scotland For Five-Day Visit; Desperate Gaza Fishermen Risk Their Lives To Get Food; Thailand Activates Martial Law Along Border With Cambodia. Aired 2-3p ET

Aired July 25, 2025 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00]

CHRISTINA MACFARLANE, HOST, ISA SOARES TONIGHT: A very warm welcome to the show, everyone, I'm Christina Macfarlane in for ISA SOARES TONIGHT.

Starving to death with each passing hour. The humanitarian crisis in Gaza deepens. Is there any hope left for a ceasefire? We'll speak to U.S. State

Department spokesperson Tammy Bruce.

And Justice Department officials meet with Ghislaine Maxwell. President Trump says he hasn't thought about whether he'd pardon the Epstein

accomplice. Plus, Martial law declared in parts of Thailand as tensions with Cambodia remain on a knife edge. We'll have those details. But first,

a crime of extermination by starvation unfolding before a silent world.

Those powerful words coming from a top health official in Gaza as millions of Palestinians descend further into a spiraling humanitarian crisis with

each passing day. Gaza's Health Ministry says at least nine more people have died from starvation in the past 24 hours, including two children,

bringing the total number of deaths from malnutrition to more than 120 since the war began.

And no one is immune. Doctors treating starving patients are already physically drained, some so ravenous they're collapsing from hunger and

exhaustion. Israel, meanwhile says it will allow other countries to airdrop aid into Gaza in the coming days, and the future of ceasefire talks is now

uncertain after the U.S. and Israel left Doha on Thursday.

A source close to the talks describes the U.S. decision to pull back as an earthquake. Israel Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says like the U.S.,

he's considering alternative options to try to bring the remaining hostages home. U.S. President Donald Trump is blaming Hamas for the breakdown in

ceasefire negotiations.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: They pulled out of Gaza. They pulled out in terms of negotiating. It was too bad. Hamas didn't

really want to make a deal. I think they want to die. And it's very bad.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you down to --

TRUMP: And it got -- it got to be -- to a point where you're going to have to finish the job.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACFARLANE: Well, Palestinians along with some Jewish-Israelis took to the streets in one Arab town in Israel today to call for an end of the war and

the suffering in Gaza. CNN's Jeremy Diamond was there.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Amid the images of starvation in Gaza that have shocked the world, we are here in Israel at

one of the largest anti-war demonstrations that this country has seen. We are talking about a large community of Palestinian citizens of Israel, some

Jewish Israelis as well, who have come to raise their voices not only against the war in Gaza, but in particular against the starvation that many

here see as a direct result of Israeli policies in Gaza.

And as that is happening, we are seeing people come out here with the images of the bodies of many of those individuals in Gaza who have been

starving. We are seeing people banging pots and pans to call attention to all of that. You know, in Israel, we haven't seen a lot of big anti-war

demonstrations, the largest that we have seen have largely been focused on the hostages and the fate of the hostages with many there also calling for

an end to the war.

But here, the focus is very much on the plight of Palestinians, on the plight of Palestinians inside of Gaza. And amid it all, what we are hearing

now are chants against the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, who many here see as responsible not only for the war in Gaza, but for the

current starvation now underway. Jeremy Diamond, CNN, Sakhnin, Israel.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MACFARLANE: And I want to welcome now the U.S. State Department spokesperson, Tammy Bruce. Tammy, thank you so much for your time.

TAMMY BRUCE, SPOKESPERSON, U.S. STATE DEPARTMENT: Sure --

MACFARLANE: With the so much uncertainty around the ceasefire, I just want to start there. Yesterday, CNN was told by sources close to the negotiators

that there was growing optimism about reaching a deal with Hamas after Hamas --

BRUCE: Yes --

MACFARLANE: Submitted their proposal. But a few hours later, Israel and the U.S. withdrew its negotiators. Can you tell us what happened, Tammy,

and on what terms will the U.S. return to the negotiating table now?

BRUCE: Well, I'm not free to speak about the specifics of what the negotiations were or the attitudes. What we can say is exactly what you

described is accurate, that there was optimism. There had been somewhat -- I had been -- conveyed was agreements, and that changed.

[14:05:00]

And special envoy Witkoff made it very clear in his statement that they were not acting in good faith, that they were -- specifically had a lack of

desire for a ceasefire considering the images that we are seeing, the remarkable dynamic of the one group that could stop all of this in an

instant by simply laying down their weapons and stop-holding -- we know they have hostages, but really, all of the people in Gaza are hostages of

Hamas.

And they were on -- on the brink of being able to have another ceasefire. Remember, we had a ceasefire on October 7th when the atrocity took place,

we managed to get through President Trump's leadership and envoy Witkoff, a ceasefire in the aftermath, and Hamas broke that as well. And now as they

were on the brink, it's almost as though, as the President noted that they prefer what it is that's going on.

And this has been our argument. We have been working to stop the carnage and the suffering from day one, and it is a remarkable turn of events that

someone as hopeful as envoy Witkoff would say that they have a lack of desire for a ceasefire, that they're being selfish and not acting in good

faith.

So, when we look at why this continues, I rarely hear the word Hamas in the coverage, and this is why this is happening at all. So, we are -- the

President has indicated, as has envoy Witkoff, that we continue to be resolute in our desire for a ceasefire to end this, and we will continue.

But clearly, there is a side here that being Hamas that seems to not be interested.

MACFARLANE: Yes, and while this goes on, of course, the hostages of October 7th continue to suffer. And on the Gaza Strip, starvation is now

rampant. I have to ask you, when the Israel-Iran crisis was reaching a fever pitch several weeks ago, President Trump cut short his meeting with

fellow G7 leaders.

With what we're seeing unfolding now in Gaza, the incalculable number of people being called "walking corpses". Is it appropriate --

BRUCE: Horrible --

MACFARLANE: For the President to be on a golfing trip in Scotland?

BRUCE: Well, I -- what I can tell you is if there's -- we know there's been one leader, one person who, in the midst of all of this, in the years,

in the aftermath of October 7th, who was able to get the parties to the table that got us to a point of a ceasefire, has put all the resources and

energy of the United States of America to stopping this madness.

Now, in the meantime, of course, we have envoy Witkoff. We've -- again, we just discussed the nature of Hamas simply not being interested. The good

thing about the United States, of course, also when it comes to Secretary of State Marco Rubio, that the best and the brightest, the leaders of the

United States collectively are working to stop this.

And it is a remarkable dynamic where you have the world looking and still very rarely having letters of protest go to Hamas, having demands to Hamas

to stop this. And they're the ones that can do it. So, we have proven our commitment to stopping this madness. And there's one body out there that is

refusing to cooperate, and that's Hamas.

We are still committed to making the difference. The work goes on 24/7 in this country. And I would suggest that it is a highly inappropriate to

target the man who has made at least the conversations and an end to this possible, Donald Trump, and criticizing him at this stage when he is the

one person who has made at least the end of this even remotely possible.

MACFARLANE: I think what people would like to see in this moment of mass starvation in Gaza is a ramp-up of efforts to try and address that

situation.

BRUCE: Sure --

MACFARLANE: And I wonder why consistently do starvation and what's happening in Gaza, why does that need to be tied to the ceasefire? Why does

it need to go hand-in-hand?

BRUCE: Right --

MACFARLANE: Because it is possible, right? One can argue there is a moral imperative under international law --

BRUCE: Sure --

MACFARLANE: To prevent mass --

BRUCE: Sure --

MACFARLANE: Starvation without conditions.

BRUCE: Of course. Well, of course, and that's why the United States is backed in part, an entity called the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation, which

has delivered 90 million meals in the Gaza Strip in this the last few months, 90 million. Now, you've also heard -- there was your report about

the possibility of airdrops.

But the reason why the U.N. doesn't go in is because it's a war zone, and it is dangerous, and there is the need to not allow Hamas to loot the

material which they then sell for weapons or use to control the population. Food must be eaten. It must be distributed, and 90 million meals so far

have been. But of course --

MACFARLANE: Yes --

BRUCE: It will never be perfect because it is a war zone. It's an abnormal, obscene environment, and it is the reason there has to be a

ceasefire is because you don't want more people murdered.

[14:10:00]

And if it gets looted and doesn't even get to the people --

MACFARLANE: OK --

BRUCE: For whom it's intended.

MACFARLANE: OK, look, I want to address just a few things you said there, 90 --

BRUCE: Sure --

MACFARLANE: Thousand -- 90 million meals, I think you said --

BRUCE: Million meals --

MACFARLANE: Ninety million meals, that --

BRUCE: Million --

MACFARLANE: That is from May the 22nd for 2.1 million people. The assessment is that --

BRUCE: Correct --

MACFARLANE: There needs to be closer to 350 million right now to be meeting --

BRUCE: Yes --

MACFARLANE: That need.

BRUCE: Yes, I tried --

MACFARLANE: And on your accusation against Hamas -- oh, sorry, go ahead --

BRUCE: Well, the reason it can't -- the reason it's not more is because of the nature of the inability because of the dynamic, the violence that is

occurring, which is why we need a ceasefire. It's easier to get things done as I think we would all agree when --

MACFARLANE: Yes --

BRUCE: Terrorists aren't trying to murder people. So, it is again, of course, it's not enough, but what gets what -- the only dynamic where there

will be enough is when terrorists are out of that area where there is some modicum of peace, where people aren't being murdered. It's a low bar, I

know, but it's the one that we need.

MACFARLANE: Yes --

BRUCE: And in the meantime, we are trying, and certainly, at least at that stage, getting more in than anyone else has up to this point.

MACFARLANE: I want to put to you something that has been released on the question of Hamas looting. Today, USAID released a report saying they saw,

quote, "no evidence of systematic theft by Hamas of U.S.-funded supplies". Now examined, Tammy, 156 incidents of theft, theft lost since October 2023

and found no evidence this is coming from within your own U.S. government - -

BRUCE: Well --

MACFARLANE: Analysis. So, where is your evidence --

(CROSSTALK)

MACFARLANE: Coming from? Please tell me --

BRUCE: Well, I think that where our evidence is coming from is from real life on the ground. The nature of what is occurring, what we are witnessing

there, not just in the last few months, but for over a generation. You look at the condition of Gaza, the nature of what Hamas has done to those

people, the building of military installations under hospitals, the taking over of schools for military action, or at least terrorist action to attack

Israel.

We've seen this for decades now. It is not -- and I would also argue that for the group that committed the atrocity on October 7th, the slaughtering

of babies, the murder of women as they're being raped, the -- putting people on fire as they're alive to suggest that there is some level of

principle that must be challenged for that group on the issue of looting, those are remarkable accession --

MACFARLANE: I don't think anyone is challenging that --

BRUCE: But you're saying -- you're asking, and what we've seen on the ground for years now is the treatment of the Gazan people who are the first

victims of Hamas, mirrors the nature of what occurred on October 7th, a barbarity that dismisses the nature of human rights, of humanity itself.

The idea that they are looting and stealing food stuffs and material is at the low bar of what these people are capable of.

I would argue that when we're looking at why this continues, Hamas is at the center of it. No one disputes that. We know what happened on October

7th, our work remains stopping it now. We've got to this point and even just within the last 48 hours, Hamas is saying, no, we're not interested.

Isn't that interesting? That is the story that we're dealing with here.

MACFARLANE: The point I'm making, actually, and when I raised the issue of Hamas and of your allegation to Hamas, I'm not disputing it. I'm just

looking at it in the context of this humanitarian disaster now becoming --

BRUCE: Of course --

MACFARLANE: Rampant starvation in Gaza. And on that point, it is Israel who control the Gaza Strip. They control 70 percent of the Gaza Strip. They

are the occupying force, and they are the ones who have the control to ensure that aid trucks get safe passage by providing security measures. And

so, is that not something that the U.S. and the -- Israel are working --

BRUCE: Well --

MACFARLANE: Towards at this point?

BRUCE: Well, it clearly is. Even the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation constantly working for more sites for the distribution, and I have to say,

this is a war zone. There is no general control. You have Hamas, armed gangs moving in, creating the scenes and frankly, focusing on making sure

there is continued starvation because there's only one group, one entity that benefits from the horrible scenes that we're seeing, and that's Hamas.

This has emboldened them as the general sense that this is something that they benefit from, with the calls to stop the efforts that are going on, to

free the Gazan people. And they are the ones who are -- who are refusing to lay down their arms and to release the hostages. We know that they're at

the center of this. There's no debate about that.

[14:15:00]

But I would say that the 90 million meals that have gotten in, agreeing that, of course, there always needs to be more, has been made possible

because of the nature of at least the certain sites where they've been able to control the violence with a methodology that has been able to keep it

away from Hamas looting them. And we move forward, but clearly, it is heartbreaking.

We were so close. And it is Hamas that, you know, throws up its hands, well, not good enough for we're not interested. That is the barbarity that

we're dealing with here. And that's what --

MACFARLANE: Yes --

BRUCE: Has to come to an end. It's their decision at this point.

MACFARLANE: Tammy, I just want to ask one last question on a slightly different --

BRUCE: Sure --

MACFARLANE: Related matter today --

BRUCE: Sure --

MACFARLANE: Over a dozen Democratic senators you would have seen called for the Trump administration to investigate the recent death of an American

citizen in the West Bank, allegedly at the hands of extremist --

BRUCE: Yes --

MACFARLANE: Israeli settlers. His name was Sayfollah Musallet, he's obviously a Florida resident, and he is now the seventh American citizen to

be killed in the West Bank, and actually the fifth in just 19 months. Why has no --

BRUCE: Yes --

MACFARLANE: Investigation been launched so far for him, or in fact, any of the seven?

BRUCE: Well, I would argue that I cannot speak to, first of all, what may be occurring regarding investigations. The choices that the American

government would make or the FBI or the DOJ or even the State Department, clearly, that it's not in our national security interest to have these

conversations be in a public media open forum around the world.

What I can tell you is that there is no higher priority for us than the safety, security of American citizens abroad. We do know that the -- that

Israel and the IDF is investigating that dynamic, so, I would challenge you in that regard --

MACFARLANE: But the U.S. are not --

BRUCE: But just because you may not have the details of exactly what the United States is doing, and it's not right in front of you. Don't presume

that certain things are not happening. And again, while I can't speak in this particular case, that of course, we are interested, of course, we want

an investigation and we expect to see results of an investigation, and we'll be able to discuss what is next when it's appropriate to do so.

MACFARLANE: Tammy Bruce, we appreciate your time and your candor today. Thank you.

BRUCE: My pleasure. Thank you.

MACFARLANE: All right, let's go straight out now to Nic Robertson I think, believing us is joining us from Jerusalem. Nic, I don't know if you were

hearing some of that conversation I was having with Tammy Bruce there, but can you talk to us please, about what you are now witnessing or hearing

from what's happening on the ground there in Gaza.

I know you were at one of the entry points to Gaza just yesterday. Are we seeing any of this aid beginning to get through? What is the situation?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, I mean, it's obviously a very contentious issue. The aid, the Gaza Humanitarian

Foundation continues to move its trucks in to their very limited distribution sites. They're making offers to distribute U.N. aid. The U.N.

refuses to work with them because they don't believe that the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation works or is set up in a safe manner consistent with

humanitarian values.

That's the position of the U.N. I think what we're hearing from the security officials today is saying that some of the humanitarian aid that's

been stuck on the Gaza side of the border because the U.N. says that, in essence, Israel isn't making it easy enough, if you will, to get to that

aid as an onerous bureaucratic security process that essentially makes them feel that Israel doesn't want a lot of that aid to get in from the Israeli

security officials.

Today, we're hearing that 150 of those trucks of aid were able to get in and be distributed inside of Gaza, similar numbers yesterday. So, it's a

hugely contentious issue. And I think you've got a sense of that in your interview there. The reality for Gazans, and we were looking at just one of

the -- of the soup kitchens today, which is desperately short of food and children spending their day walking through the rubble, empty pots in hand,

to try to get food at these distribution points.

These soup kitchens where there is so little food available, that it is absolutely chaotic and heart-wrenching to watch and the children and their

parents there know that if they don't get food tonight, then they're going to go hungry again.

[14:20:00]

And the U.N. says that -- well, UNICEF says that 5,500 children over the past two weeks have been treated for malnutrition. So, there are very real

and contentious conversations, very real and tangible effects on the ground. Israel today has said that it will launch or will help instigate

these airdrops again, which the U.N. has said that airdrops that have been tried over Gaza before, have been dangerous and expensive.

People have been killed by pallets landing, food landing on the ground. So, there's a -- there's a real -- it's evident the pressure and the

contentious nature, and I think just to go to one point of the interview and again, this gets to the contentious nature of where the conversations

are about a possible ceasefire.

The previous ceasefire that was had earlier in the year, that was set for phase one of 60 days, where Israel after 16 days, was supposed to get into

a negotiation over the next phase, which was to lead essentially to the potential for a full ceasefire and end of the conflict, that, of course, is

one of the sticking points for Hamas right now.

Because Israel didn't ever go to the phase two -- didn't ever go to those negotiations with Hamas about getting to phase two. And indeed ended the

ceasefire after 60 days and went back on the offensive. And this is one of the reasons that Hamas is so pressuring it appears, from what we understand

on several issues. But one of them about making sure that ceasefire this time lasts more than 60 days, and is actually -- it becomes a permanent

ceasefire, and that's based on their experience of the -- of the ceasefire earlier in the year.

You know, when you're trying to analyze where is the ceasefire right now, you know, some of this -- some of what we're hearing is positioning both

sides, positioning, putting pressure on each other. And again, what we hear publicly from officials can be part of that pressuring, because we also

hear from mediators that they're continuing to work in the background and continue to have discussions.

MACFARLANE: Nic, these are important points for us to remember as we hear so much -- so many conflicting arguments and positions being put forward on

both sides. We appreciate you being here or being there rather. Our Nic Robertson live in Jerusalem. Thank you. All right, still to come tonight,

while President Trump travels abroad, his former criminal defense attorney spent the day talking a long time to Jeffrey Epstein associate Ghislaine

Maxwell. We have those details ahead.

Plus, President Trump is on his way to Scotland. We'll have a preview of his trip and who he plans to meet.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:25:00]

MACFARLANE: Ghislaine Maxwell's attorney says she answered every single question asked of her by the second most powerful official at the Justice

Department, but he didn't clarify what the conversation was about or why Todd Blanche was there. The deputy Attorney General, who was also President

Trump's former criminal defense lawyer, spoke with Jeffrey Epstein's long- time accomplice over the past two days.

Well, Maxwell is currently serving a 20-year sentence, convicted of charges of recruiting, grooming and trafficking underage girls for Epstein.

Meanwhile, when asked if he plans to pardon or commute her sentence earlier, President Trump said he hadn't thought about it, but he isn't

ruling it out.

CNN's Kara Scannell joins us now with the latest on the Epstein scandal. I mean, there is -- it's very difficult to know, Kara, what would justify the

length of time the deputy AG is spending with Ghislaine Maxwell if it wasn't for that particular reason?

KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So, the deputy Attorney General over the past two days has spent at least nine hours in these closed-door meetings

with Ghislaine Maxwell and her attorney. You know, going into the meeting, Todd Blanche, the deputy Attorney General had said that he wanted to know

what Maxwell knew about any crimes committed by anyone else against the victims of Jeffrey Epstein.

Now, her lawyer leaving the court house today, just a few moments ago, had said that Maxwell answered truthfully. He said there -- no question was off

the table. He said that she was asked about maybe 100 different people, he said she answered questions about everybody and didn't hold anything back.

And of course, there are a lot of famous names that have come up through the history of this scandal. The investigation, the prosecution people,

famous people, including former President or current President Donald Trump, former President Bill Clinton. Their names have popped up, neither

of them have been accused of any wrongdoing.

But this is the type of information his -- her lawyer is suggesting was covered. All of these famous people, a lot of different names, asked a lot

of questions here. And one big question has been what has been the ground rules of this meeting? The White House is dealing with this unending

attention, publicity over this investigation.

What they had promised to make public, and then the administration saying they weren't going to make public different documents and information. So,

in trying to quell that, that seems to be a reason why Todd Blanche came to do these interviews. But the big question would be, what does Maxwell get

out of it?

And so, her lawyer said that there were no asks, there were no promises and nothing about a pardon had been promised or made. So, a lot of questions,

though still, about what will develop from this? The deputy Attorney General had said that he would make information about what they learned

from this, public, at the appropriate time.

It's unclear when that will be or if it will do anything to tamp down what has been this growing controversy that the Trump White House has had to

deal with, but certainly, very interesting that Todd Blanche himself would agree to go to this meeting and that, according to Maxwell's attorney,

nothing was off the table that she answered questions about. He, as he put it, as many as 100 different people.

MACFARLANE: Goodness, OK, Kara Scannell with the latest. Thank you. And U.S. President Donald Trump is on his way to Scotland for a five-day trip

with golf placing high on the agenda. The President will make stops at two of his golf courses and attend an opening of a new one.

He's also expected to meet with British Prime Minister Keir Starmer, but not everyone may be happy to see him. Security is being beefed up and

protests are planned in several cities during the President's visit. Joining us from Scotland is CNN's Jeff Zeleny. Jeff, what more do we know

then about this trip and also about that upcoming meeting with the Prime Minister Keir Starmer.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF U.S. NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Christina, we do know that President Trump is about an hour or so away from

landing here in Scotland for what can be described as a working golfing weekend. In between visiting a couple of his golf clubs here in Scotland,

he'll be spending four nights here on the ground.

He will also be meeting, as you said, with British Prime Minister Keir Starmer. But a new meeting has also been added to the itinerary on Sunday.

He is now set to meet with the -- the commissioner of the European Union to talk again about the trade deals with that tariff deadline looming for

August 1. Yet one more tariff deadline that have really been one of the central markers of the Trump administration.

[14:30:24]

President Trump does not have as fond of a relationship with the leaders of the EU. He has often talked in very derisive terms about the EU. So, that

meeting on Sunday with Ursula von der Leyen is an important addition to this agenda.

But the president -- the primary purpose for this trip comes on Tuesday. That is when he is going to dedicate and do a ribbon-cutting ceremony at a

new golf course on the northern coast of Scotland that is named after President Trump's mother. The MacLeod course, it's called, an 18-hole new

golf course on an existing Trump club there. Of course, Mrs. Trump, the president's mother, was born here in Scotland on the isle of Lewis. She

immigrated to the United States back in 1918 after World War I.

So, President Trump clearly feels fondly about Scotland. The question is, does Scotland feel as fondly about President Trump? We will see tomorrow if

those protests materialize here in Edinburgh. Christina.

MACFARLANE: And, Jeff, while this trip is happening, we saw, of course, the move yesterday by President Macron to recognize the Palestinian state.

Well, in the past few hours, the UK prime minister, Keir Starmer, has said, "The recognition of Palestinian statehood is necessary for peace."

Obviously, we've been saying President Trump is set to meet with Mr. Starmer. How is that likely to be received?

ZELENY: Look, there is no doubt that the deepening humanitarian crisis in Gaza will be a key part of this meeting as well. President Trump, as he was

leaving the White House several hours ago on Friday morning here, he talked about how Hamas simply is not interested in going forward with a peace

plan. But that leaves basically a humanitarian crisis that the leaders in European Nations are talking about with far more volume than President

Trump has been talking about. So, clearly, that is going to be part of their discussions.

In terms of the recognition as a Palestinian state, of course, Prime Minister Starmer adding his voice to what President Macron said yesterday.

No word from President Trump in a similar vein. But there is no doubt that this is now a crisis that demands the world's attention, and it certainly

will be discussed on Monday. Christina.

MACFARLANE: Jeff Zeleny in Edinburgh. Lovely sports. Thank you so much. All right, still to come tonight. Doctors in Gaza are fainting from hunger and

exhaustion while trying to save their starving patients. I speak with one medic on the ground in Al-Mawasi.

And at this hour, parts of Thailand are under martial law. Thanks to the growing border dispute with Cambodia. The latest on the rising tensions

there after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:36:39]

MACFARLANE: The appalling scenes in Gaza are unrelenting. That's how the British prime minister describing the starvation crisis now unfolding

before the eyes of the world. Keir Starmer says the recognition of Palestinian statehood is necessary for lasting peace, something France

announced it would do just one day earlier. And it only adds to the mounting international pressure on Israel to end the war.

Meanwhile, Israel says it will allow airdrops of much-needed aid into Gaza, a move criticized by the UN as expensive and dangerous. Israel accuses

Hamas of "Engineering food shortages." But an internal U.S. government review contradicts that. The review says it found no evidence of widespread

theft by Hamas of U.S.-funded humanitarian aid in Gaza. All this as talks to end the bloodshed and free Israeli hostages are in a state of limbo.

Well, earlier I spoke with Dr. Mohammed Abu Mughaisib, who is working on the ground in Al-Mawasi, Gaza. He is the deputy medical coordinator there

for "Doctors Without Borders." I asked whether the aid entering Gaza is reaching his field hospital.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MOHAMMED ABU MUGHAISIB, DEPUTY MEDICAL COORDINATOR, DOCTORS WITHOUT BORDERS: I mean, some of these trucks have been looted. I mean, after they

entered. Again, all these trucks, even that entered are carrying flour. I mean, it's -- I mean, which can make bread.

I mean -- but does people -- does human beings depend only on bread? I mean, you need proteins. You need eggs, milk, cheese. I mean -- I mean,

it's not a vegetable fruit.

This has not entering since March. I mean, what entered the few trucks that are entering in the last few days are flour. And it's -- most of it are

looted and it's not reached. I mean, the -- most of the population cannot access it.

MACFARLANE: So, what are you providing at the moment or do you have anything to provide to malnourished people -- to malnourished babies? We're

hearing that in some instances, babies are being fed water and sugar because that's all that's left.

ABU MUGHAISIB: Again, I mean, among the items that are not entering since March is formula milk supplements. And this is, of course, one of the

important are treatment for many babies. I mean, a lot of these babies have been -- they are yes on water and some sugar. And sugar actually is not

available in Gaza as well.

So -- I mean, I cannot really describe. I mean, we are treating. We are starving. I mean, the medical staff who are treating these babies are

starving. I mean, everyone in the population reached an acute hunger. I mean, we don't want to declare a famine, but it's an acute hunger. I mean,

it's the last stage.

MACFARLANE: You say you don't want to declare a famine, but do you think you are reaching that point or have reached that point?

ABU MUGHAISIB: What would be the difference to declare famine? I mean that the population are suffering from acute hunger. I mean, does it mean -- is

it important to declare it to start entering things -- to gather supplies? I think we don't want to reach this, to declare. I think what is important

now is to open the terminals, to allow goods to enter without any condition, without any -- and stop this war.

MACFARLANE: I know that last December you had some 60 beds, I believe, in a field hospital. How -- what is the situation now in your field hospitals?

How incapacitated are you to do the job? And just -- can you just describe to me your sort of the daily work that you're doing in those field

hospitals right now?

[14:40:08]

ABU MUGHAISIB: I mean, our field hospital now is around 74 beds. I mean, it's completely full of patients. There is no space for more patients to

admit. I mean, if the -- if now there is patients that need to be admitted, we cannot receive any more patients because -- and we refuse some patients

because there is no space anymore.

I mean, and it's not the hospital that we are running. All the hospitals in Gaza. Wherever it's by international NGO's, field hospitals or structured

hospitals by the Ministry of Health, all these hospitals are exceeding the full capacity of beds. Some of the hospitals, like Nasser in the south, in

Khan Yonis here, its 250 percent the bed occupancy rate reached. I mean, patients are in the corridors. Patients lying in the emergency department

on the floor. There is no space for them to admit them, to operate them, even.

MACFARLANE: It is such a sacrifice, Doctor, that you are making to stay and to try and treat people in these conditions. I know that you yourself are

from Gaza City. Your family was able to leave Gaza to escape out through Egypt, I believe. Have you been in touch with them? Are you able to speak

to them on a daily basis?

ABU MUGHAISIB: I'm almost every day in touch with them, and I know. And every day at morning, the first thing I do at morning when I wake up is

that to text my wife and say that I'm alive. I'm here today. I'm moving to this hospital. I'm moving to this hospital. That's the code that every day

that I need to text her.

If I do not text her, she will be panicked. She will be stressed. And of course, I mean, this is not me. That's everyone who lives in Gaza. There is

no really safe place. I mean, there is a lot of collateral damage.

Most of the cases that are actually coming to the hospital are related to collateral damage. They are not targeted. The ones who are needed to be

targeted, but it's collateral damage, by-passer children.

I mean, we reach more than 17,000 children who have been killed during this war. So, the situation really is -- I don't know how to describe it worse.

I mean, we -- this worse -- I mean, if there is a word worse than the word worse, I will describe it.

MACFARLANE: I'm not sure you really need to, Doctor Mohammed. Your words to us just now have been very impactful, and we really appreciate you spending

the time out of your day to come and talk to us to tell the world what is happening. Thank you so much.

ABU MUGHAISIB: Thank you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MACFARLANE: That was our interview a little earlier today. Now, fishing in Gaza was once a lifeline, a way to source protein and materials. Now that's

forbidden with the Israeli military renewing a warning earlier this month to not enter the water. Despite the restrictions, many in Gaza have no

choice but to carry on fishing in the sea, risking their lives to do so, as our Jeremy Diamond reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DIAMOND (voiceover): The sea once fed Gaza's children shut out from the world under an 18-year Israeli blockade. Now, this is what's left after a

lifeline became a kill zone.

FAYZA, GAZA RESIDENT (text): We have nothing to eat, so we come. I wait for the fishermen to come out of the sea and give me some.

DIAMOND (voiceover): What once provided relief now stokes fear. Israel reissued a warning last week prohibiting anyone from entering the sea. But

hunger brings them back. Seen from the water, Gaza's skyline tells its own story. A jagged line of tents and shattered buildings. Destruction is

always present, even at a distance.

AWAD AL ALMOUDI, FISHERMAN (text): It is true that planes come and shoot us. They do everything. But we have to go to the sea. If a day passes

without going to the sea, we will die of hunger. But I have to.

ZIYAD ABU AMIRA, FISHERMAN (text): We don't have any other source of food but this one. If I don't bring it to my children today, I die. I have no

other place to get food from. I will not run after trucks.

HUSSAM SAADALLA, GAZA RESIDENT (text): I'm throwing the net because we want to eat. Me and my friend made this net to catch some fish and eat. This is

what we fished. I'm always afraid of the naval boats. If we come a bit deeper, the naval ships shoot.

DIAMOND (voiceover): They have reason to be scared. This video, posted on social media, shows what can happen to those who wade too far out.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (text): The Israelis took them. They took them.

[14:45:06]

DIAMOND (voiceover): In this video, filmed by a cameraman working for CNN, shows Israeli projectiles striking close to shore. The Israeli military has

not responded to CNN's requests for comment on these incidents.

AL AMOUDI (text): I have friends who got martyred. Others got injured. Me, as a fisherman -- I'm waiting for my death. But what can I do?

DIAMOND (voiceover): Once a source of life, the sea now full of deadly risk, cut off, patrolled, and punished by blockade. Jeremy Diamond, CNN,

Tel Aviv.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MACFARLANE: All right, still to come tonight. For the second day in a row, deadly clashes have erupted between Thailand and Cambodia, forcing

thousands to flee to emergency shelters. We'll have the latest developments ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACFARLANE: Increased fighting along the Cambodia border has prompted Thailand to declare martial law in two provinces. The violence forcing more

than 130,000 people to flee their homes and killing more than a dozen. The Thai military is now calling for Cambodia to "Return to the negotiating

table." Tensions between the Southeast Asian neighbors have been boiling over for months over disputed sections of their 800-kilometer border.

Kristie Lu Stout has more on the latest developments.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KRISTIE LU STOUT, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voiceover): Thai artillery fire pounds Cambodian positions on the second day of deadly conflict between two

Southeast Asian neighbors. Their 500-mile shared border now a conflict zone. The flare-up has already claimed several lives, displacing over

100,000 people in Thailand, according to its Ministry of Interior. And thousands more in Cambodia, AP reported, citing an official, where families

are sheltering on the grounds of temples.

VENG CHIN, 74-YEAR-OLD CAMBODIAN RESIDENT (through a translator): I was so scared, shaking so much. I didn't bring anything with me. And then my son

tried to pull my child's hand up onto the tractor.

STOUT (voiceover): The roots of the conflict go back to the colonial era, when many of Asia's borders were drawn by European powers, including the

areas of religious and archeological significance.

THITINAN PONGSUDHIRAK, CHULALONGKORN UNIVERSITY: Both sides, Cambodians and Thais, feel resentful of history. Thais think that the French took some

land from Thailand, gave to Cambodia. Cambodians think that this is their civilization from a long, long time ago.

STOUT (voiceover): In Thailand's Surin Province, evacuees shelter in a university. A hospital in the area abandoned after being bombed.

KUMMOON SRIPRAHOM, 63-YEAR-OLD THAI RESIDENT (through a translator): I don't want this war to happen. I don't want fighting.

[14:50:03]

STOUT (voiceover): But the violence continues. Cambodia accuses Thailand of using banned cluster munitions. CNN has contacted the Thai military for

comment. On Friday, the Thai army released this footage showing its drones destroying Cambodian ammunition stocks. CNN cannot verify the video, which

purports to show jungle positions destroyed. Washington has called for restraint.

TOMMY PIGOTT, U.S. STATE DEPARTMENT PRINCIPAL DEPUTY PRESS SECRETARY: The United States urges an immediate cessation of hostilities, protection of

civilians, and a peaceful resolution of the conflict.

STOUT (voiceover): But Beijing is watching too, as the border battles threaten to develop into something bigger.

FU CONG, CHINA'S PERMANENT REPRESENTATIVE TO THE UNITED NATIONS: And as far as China is concerned, we are in -- we are mediating between the two sides.

And we do hope that the situation can stabilize as soon as possible.

STOUT (voiceover): The UN Security Council will meet Friday to try to mediate an end to an ugly chapter in a combative relationship. Kristie Lu

Stout, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MACFARLANE: All right. Still to come tonight. Could Pope Leo be forced to give up his U.S. citizenship? We'll tell you about the new bill, which aims

to avoid that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACFARLANE: London's famous Kew Gardens is hoping to educate people about the vital role that plants play in protecting the Earth's environment. A

new carbon garden is now open, filled with 6500 plants and 35 new trees. It also has a central pavilion inspired by fungi and a dry garden with plants

like lavender that are better equipped to cope in the heat. The project took four and a half years to create. It's meant to encourage people to be

more thoughtful about what they plant in their own gardens. I will be visiting that this weekend.

Now, the premier event for comic movies, television, and all things pop culture is underway. We're talking, of course, about Comic-Con in San

Diego, California. Over the next few days, fans will dress up as their favorite characters and attend panels with creators and actors of movies,

TV, and of course, comics. There are also activities for those who don't have a ticket, like a pop-up and Labubu store and a screening of the 1989

Batman that will feature a 50-piece orchestra. Very cool.

Now, on Thursday night, the creators of South Park were part of a panel. Trey Parker and Matt Stone discussed the Season 27 premiere, which skewered

U.S. President Donald Trump. When asked about the White House's reaction, Parker said we're very sorry. Comic-Con Los through Sunday.

[14:55:14]

A U.S. lawmaker is proposing a new bill to exempt Pope Leo from paying taxes. Pope Leo XIV was born Robert Prevost in Chicago, Illinois. And all

U.S. citizens are subject to income tax regardless of where they live. But under the current law, the pope would have to file a tax return, which

could include papal funds or even money that's earmarked for charity. He would have to renounce his U.S. citizenship to avoid this. It's a pretty

unique case.

Now -- right now, around 90,000 rock fans are filing into Wembley Stadium as legendary British band Oasis returns to London for the first time in 16

years. Brothers Liam and Noel Gallagher began their Live 25 World Tour on July 4 in Wales and followed those shows with epic performances in the

band's hometown of Manchester. And as fans know, the Gallagher brothers have had a notoriously fraught relationship, and this tour is the first

time they've come together since the band broke up in 2009. And I'm still upset I didn't manage to get those tickets.

That is it for us for now. Thank you so much for watching. Stay with CNN. "What We Know with Lynda Kinkade" is up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

END