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Isa Soares Tonight

U.S. And World Markets Fall As Trump's Tariff Plan Is Unveiled; Witkoff Visits Gaza Humanitarian Foundation Site As Gaza Starvation Crisis Deepens; Trump Moves Nuclear Submarines After "Highly Provocative" Remarks By A Former Russian President; U.S. Envoy Witkoff Visits Aid Distribution Site In Gaza; U.S. Import Costs Set To Spike As Trump Tariffs Escalate; Trump Fires Labor Statistics Chief After Sour Jobs Report; Arab Coalition Calls For Hamas To Disband, Give Up Power. Aired 2-3p ET

Aired August 01, 2025 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00]

ISA SOARES, HOST, ISA SOARES TONIGHT: A very warm welcome to the show, everyone, I'm Isa Soares. Tonight, apprehension and anxiety are rippling

across the global economy as we enter a new reality of tariffs, causing U.S. and global markets, you can see to fall. Plus, Donald Trump's special

envoy visits a controversial U.S.-Israeli-backed aid distribution site in Gaza.

Hamas calls it a staged photo-op. I'll speak to the World Food Program's representative in the Palestinian territories. Then Kyiv suffers its

deadliest single attack in a year as the U.S. President orders the positioning of nuclear submarines after Russia's, quote, "provocative

remarks".

But first, tonight, another flurry of tariffs from U.S. President Donald Trump is once again rattling global stock markets as businesses, both big

and small, try to sort through all of the chaos. More than two dozen countries are now looking at U.S. tariffs higher than 15 percent, and you

can see there on the graphic.

Those new levies are now scheduled to go into effect next Thursday. The tariffs are the highest the U.S. has imposed in almost a century. They are

fueling fears of high inflation and, critically, of an economic slowdown. Let me have a -- show you how U.S. markets are ending the week and starting

a new month.

Not in a good look at all, red arrows right across the board, the Nasdaq there down the most to 2 and four-tenth of a percent. Dow Industrial almost

1.5 percent, but around 600 or so marks that we have seen for the Dow Industrial for much of the day. Adding to some of that turmoil that we've

been seeing, the weakest U.S. jobs report in more than four years.

Not only was the job market soft in July, but employment gains for May as well as June were also revised downward, and that was quite substantial.

Matt Egan is in New York for us. Matt, as we look at those stock markets, we were showing viewers just then, you know, a pretty bad start to the

month of August. How much of this is related to tariffs? How much is this ugly jobs report that we have been seeing?

MATT EGAN, CNN REPORTER: Yes, it's a little bit of both. I mean, look, it's clearly a wake-up call for investors, right? First, a wake-up call about

just how high tariffs are. And the other wake-up call is just how weak the U.S. job market looks relative to what we thought, right? Let's start with

tariffs.

The President making a whole series of announcements on tariffs as you mentioned. There's this 10 percent minimum tariff on countries that the

United States has a trade surplus with, a 15 percent minimum in countries the U.S. has a deficit with. But then we've got more than two dozen

countries that actually have a higher tariff rate than 15 percent, including major trading partners such as India and Switzerland, I mean, the

EU as well is at a significant tariff level as well.

And so, I think that it's a little confusing. There's a lot of moving pieces, but the real simple thing, the common thread is higher tariffs,

right? I mean, as you mentioned, we're looking at the highest U.S. tariffs since the 1930s during Smoot-Hawley, which was a tariff law that made the

great depression worse, markets were on fire after the President paused those April 2nd tariffs.

He paused them, and you know, U.S. stocks were just off to the races. Investors were so pleased that those April 2nd tariffs did not stick. But

what's actually happened, though, is they've started to come back, not totally, not quite to that same level, but they are still higher. I mean,

every single country basically on the planet has a higher tariff from the United States than they did before the year started.

And that is weighing on markets. You see the Dow down 1.5 percent, 650 points near the lowest levels of the day. The S&P 500 and the Nasdaq,

they're on track for their worst days since April. I talked to Art Hogan this morning, and this was before the jobs report came out. And he said to

me, he's like, look, the reality of higher tariffs that's settling in.

He said, for investors, it's like they're getting hit by a two-by-four because, Isa, as you know, markets were almost priced for perfection,

right? The investors were pricing in basically nothing, but good news and smooth sailing. And that's not what we're getting.

[14:05:00]

SOARES: Yes, and look, the reality is, so many of these trade deals that have been signed are so -- are lacking detail, right? So, who knows whether

things will actually turn out worse than they actually are. Let me go back to the economy as we look at those numbers. You know, the Dow Jones pretty

down significantly today.

You and I were talking about stock markets. We were talking about the GDP report, in fact, we saw on Tuesday because while on the surface, it looks

pretty solid, underneath, it did show signs of the U.S. economy, as you were referring there earlier, was slowing down. Due to today's numbers as a

picture we're getting, does that re-emphasize Jay Powell's decision this week to hold interest rates?

EGAN: Well, I wonder if Jay Powell wishes he had today's numbers --

SOARES: Yes --

EGAN: Before that decision. I tell you what, I think the vote would have been a lot closer than it was.

SOARES: Yes --

EGAN: We had two dissents. Who knows? Maybe there would have been more than that, because the numbers that we got overall this week, right? Haven't

been great. We knew this was a pivotal week for the U.S. economy, for the world economy. We had that soft GDP report, when you look underneath the

surface, we had the hotter-than-expected inflation report.

You mentioned the Fed meeting. We talked about tariffs, and then this jobs report, right, landed like a thud, right? And with the headline numbers for

July showed the U.S. economy added only about 73,000 jobs. That was much worse-than-expected. The unemployment rate went up from 4.1 to 4.2 percent,

still low, but moving in the wrong direction.

But it's those big downward revisions that are really alarming investors and economists. It turns out that the U.S. economy added almost no jobs at

all during May and June. That's because the new estimates from the government, they removed about a quarter of a million jobs that previously

thought had been added during those months.

So, economists, they like to look at the average, right, to smooth out some of the volatility. When you look at the three-month average for May, June

and July is the weakest pace of job growth in the United States since June of 2020. During the COVID 19 pandemic, in some key sectors that are exposed

to tariffs like manufacturing, which is supposed to be getting help by tariffs -- well, they're losing jobs.

So, it is a concerning picture when you look at the U.S. economy and the job market, because a lot of that resilience that had been just so

impressive for so long, it doesn't look like it's there anymore. And what's notable is what the markets are starting to price in when it comes to the

Fed, because after that press conference from Jerome Powell where he sounded not at all sold on the idea of an interest rate-cut.

Investors started dialing back their expectations of a rate-cut. I think it was around about a 1 in 3 chance of a rate-cut in September. Well, I was

just looking before we came on, and that has skyrocketed to 81 percent. So, now investors do think that there's a good chance that the Fed is going to

cut like the President wants.

However, the President wants them to cut because inflation is low. And instead, it looks like they may have to cut because hiring is low, right?

This could end up being what Bank of America described in a research report a few hours ago as a cut for a bad reason, right? Kind of coming to the

rescue of the job market.

And that's not what you want to see, ideally, that wouldn't be the reason. So, you put it all together and it does look like the economic picture, the

financial picture looks a lot more complicated than it did just a few days ago.

SOARES: Yes, and that's why Jerome Powell is talking about so many uncertainties. In the meantime, we see the President continuing his barrage

of insults, saying too little, too late, Jerome, too late, Powell is a disaster. Drop the rate, he said. The good news is that tariffs are

bringing billions of dollars into the United States.

Very similar comments that we have seen from the President against Jay Powell. Matt Egan, appreciate it, thank you very much.

EGAN: Thanks, Isa --

SOARES: And we will return to the question of tariffs a bit later on the show. I will be speaking to a guest later on the show. Pascal Lamy, he's

the former Director-General of the World Trade Organization, we'll get his perspective on the tariffs that we are seeing from the U.S. administration.

We'll bring that to you this hour right here on the show.

I want to turn my attention and your attention to what we are seeing in Kyiv, because the city is still reeling after a single deadliest Russian

attack on the Ukrainian capital in a year. This all is the remains of an apartment building. Have a look at this, that took a direct hit in

Thursday's onslaught.

Rescuers are still pulling victims from the rubble of the nine-story building, and the death toll in Kyiv has now risen to at least 31 people,

with nearly 160 others injured, more than 2,700 children have been killed or wounded since the war in Ukraine began. That is according to U.N. And we

now want to show you the face of one victim, ten-year-old Tymur Grigorenko(ph).

He was killed when a bomb hit his grandmother's home earlier this month. Before we show you Nick Paton Walsh's report, a warning, some of the images

are disturbing.

[14:10:00]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL SECURITY EDITOR (voice-over): When wars kill for years, names bleed into lists without faces. But each loss still

burns a black hole in the worlds they left behind. Tymur was aged ten, he was visiting his grandmother in Kramatorsk, he really wanted to see her

when a 250 kilogram Russian bomb hit her top floor home.

It was 4:40 a.m. on July the 22nd, and Tymur slept alone in the spare room. Toys flipped up on the roof, his mother, Anastasiya had left them together

that night and was due to take Tymur home to Kyiv the next morning.

ANASTASIYA CHAICHENKO, TYMUR'S MOTHER: (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE) --

(SINGING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

WALSH: Tymur grew up in war, born in 2015 when Vladimir Putin was also annexing towns while talking peace. His father Yevgeny(ph), playing with

him here, was killed fighting the Russians near Lyman 26 months ago, when Anastasiya sister rang at 5:00 a.m., she sensed it meant more loss, and at

first, hung up, didn't want to take the call.

CHAICHENKO: (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

WALSH: At the scene, rescuers had pulled Tymur out, and here are their desperate efforts to resuscitate him.

CHAICHENKO: (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

WALSH: Tymur was the only one to die that night, and is buried on the edge of Kramatorsk, where the graves are ready for more and the skyline, often

loud. Anastasiya remembers their last moment together.

CHAICHENKO: (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

WALSH: This town is full and deadline's pass, remember Tymur Grigorenko(ph), aged ten, who knew only war, whose teacher said he spoke up

when girls were picked on, who had two pet, rats, and who really wanted to stay with his grandmother on the night a Russian airstrike killed only him

as he slept. Nick Paton Walsh, CNN, Kramatorsk, Ukraine.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SOARES: Absolutely, heartbreaking, a report then from Nick Paton Walsh and team on the ground in Ukraine. And this just coming in now to CNN, U.S.

President Donald Trump says he is ordering the movement of two nuclear submarines, and it comes in response to what he calls highly provocative

remarks by Russia's former President Dmitry Medvedev.

On Truth Social, President Trump says the subs will be moved, quote, "in the appropriate regions, just in case these foolish and inflammatory

statements are more than just that, words are very important and can often lead to unintended consequences. I hope this will not be one of those

instances."

[14:15:00]

Let's go straight to Natasha Bertrand from this news just coming in. Natasha, we often see foolish and inflammatory statements from politicians

that doesn't really warrant kind of the movement of nuclear submarines. So, what more can you tell us about this decision from the President?

NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Isa, it's not even clear at this point whether these submarines had to be moved a large

distance, for example, to already be kind of patrolling the waters near Russia. These nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarines, which are

capable of carrying nuclear warheads, they generally are on patrol at all times.

And they would, you know, include areas around Russia, around China. And so, it's not clear at this point just how far these submarines, if they are

the nuclear-capable submarines that the U.S. has in its inventory, would actually have had to move here. This is largely likely a deterrent because

of the comments that we saw from Medvedev earlier today, which clearly President Trump did not like, and he's trying to send a message to the

Russians.

But it's unclear first of all, which nuclear submarines he's referring to. All of the U.S'. submarines and the U.S. Navy submarines are nuclear-

powered, but not all of them actually carry those nuclear warheads. And again, the ones that do are typically already on these very long range

patrols. Again, in order to project this deterrent effect so that no nation actually ever has to use its nuclear weapons.

And so, right now, what we're asking, of course, the White House and the Defense Department is whether these submarines that have been deployed in

this area actually have nuclear warheads on board. But it is longstanding U.S. policy to neither confirm nor deny that these warheads are actually on

board. So, again, it's all about that kind of strategic ambiguity here, Isa.

SOARES: And just add some more context in terms of the war of words, let's call it that, between Medvedev and the President. Because I did -- I did

speak about this on Wednesday, he said -- Medvedev, I should say, posted, "each new ultimatum is a threat and a step towards war, not between Russia

and Ukraine, but with his own country."

And this is after, I think, President Trump gave Russia a deadline to come to the table, right? Just talk us through the words that have been

exchanged between both sides, and whether we have heard anything so far following this decision from President Trump on the reposition of nuclear

submarines from the Kremlin here.

BERTRAND: That's right. This has been an ongoing back-and-forth over the last several days where Medvedev, he responded very angrily to President

Trump's decision to put a deadline, a new deadline on Russia to come to the table in talks with the Ukrainians of about ten days, instead of the

original 50 days that they had had before the U.S. considered placing secondary sanctions on countries that did business with the Russians,

particularly in the oil sector.

And so, Medvedev suggested that this brings the U.S. closer to the brink of war with the Russians. And he posted that on social media. Now, he is known

for making these kinds of very inflammatory statements, and he frequently refers to Russia's nuclear capabilities. He has done so in the past. It has

never prompted quite the reaction that we have seen from the United States, as it has today.

But we have not yet heard in response to President Trump's announcement just a few hours ago about deploying these submarines, a response yet from

the Kremlin. But the Kremlin does frequently, even though Medvedev is not a part of the Kremlin currently, it does frequently bring up the fact that it

has these nuclear capabilities, and it likes to kind of dangle that.

And so, the question now is how far is the U.S. willing to go? Hopefully, this is just a message that is being sent to the Russians at this point.

Isa.

SOARES: Thank you very much. I know you'll stay across it. Natasha for us, Natasha Bertrand there for us in Washington. Well, still to come on the

show tonight, praising aid efforts amid a looming famine. We'll tell you about a high level U.S. visit to an aid distribution site in Gaza. That is

next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:20:00]

SOARES: Well, even on a day when a high level U.S. delegation visited Gaza to tout aid efforts, dozens more Palestinians were killed trying to access

food. Underscoring, of course, the dangerous conditions they face trying to stave off famine. The envoy, Steve Witkoff and U.S. Ambassador to Israel,

Mike Huckabee, you can see there, toured one of the three operational sites run by the controversial Gaza Humanitarian Foundation.

Witkoff says the visit was meant to access humanitarian -- assess rather humanitarian conditions, and help craft a plan to deliver food and aid.

Some aid groups call these sites death traps. The U.N. says nearly 1,400 Palestinians have been killed while seeking food since the foundation began

operations in May, and it says most were shot by Israeli forces.

The IDF has acknowledged firing warning shots, but says it does not target civilians. Gaza's Health Ministry said 53 aid seekers were killed today.

Nasser Hospital says at least three were killed near the same site visited by Witkoff and Huckabee. One man who was shot in the stomach spoke to CNN.

Have a listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): As soon as Witkoff arrived in the area, there was random gunfire. The shooting intensified along with drones

and quadcopters in the air. And they started firing at people, bodies are scattered all over the place. We can't survive like this. Open the

crossings.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SOARES: Well, Ambassador Huckabee, meantime, is praising the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation, saying it has accomplished what he calls an

incredible feat. It -- he says it has delivered more than a 100 million meals since May, and that just is as important. That works out -- just for

all of you listening to that comment, to less than a meal a day, a meal a day for Gaza's 2.1 million residents.

The starvation crisis gotten worse on the foundation's watch, with the U.N.-backed food security group saying famine is now unfolding. For one

mother who's already lost a child to malnutrition, this is what the crisis looks like. Sitting by her daughter's bedside as her body slowly withers

away.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NASMA AYAD, MOTHER OF MALNOURISHED CHILD (through translator): Bit by bit, I feel I'm slowly losing my daughter day after day. Everything she's

suffering from is multiplying. She's eight and a half years old. Her weight is around 11 kilograms and blood is 6. Bit-by-bit, she will have

complications in her vision and walking and even in speaking. Now, she's having great difficulty in speaking.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SOARES: That's reality on the ground. Well, the World Food Program says it would be unconscionable to wait for an official declaration of famine to

begin flooding Gaza with life-saving aid. Antoine Renard is the Country Director of the World Food Program in Palestine. He just left Gaza and is

now in Jerusalem.

Antoine, great to have you back on the show, as we have just stated, you have just left Gaza. Can you just tell us and tell our viewers what you

have seen on the ground? Because of course, as we said this week alone, we heard from the U.N.-backed food security agency saying the worst-case

scenario of famine is unfolding in Gaza.

ANTOINE RENARD, PALESTINE REPRESENTATIVE & COUNTRY DIRECTOR, WORLD FOOD PROGRAM: Well, in fact, I'm still in Gaza city, I will be leaving very

soon, so I can even speak to you --

SOARES: Yes --

RENARD: From where it's currently happening. The famine risk is really growing fast. You have half a million of the population that is on the

brink of famine.

[14:25:00]

There was again, an alert that sadly had to confirm what was already raised in the middle of May, where if the situation was not improving, we would

actually face what is the current situation. Two children out of ten are actually malnourished. I was with Hiba(ph) just today in Gaza city, and

what she was telling me is that, out of her three children, they are eating only a quarter of a loaf of bread.

Herself is sometimes spending two days without eating. I had another -- headed household woman that was actually explaining to me -- Daya(ph), that

her son is 14, and she's afraid because they actually have no access to food whatsoever. So, what her son is actually doing 14 years old, he

actually goes to the distribution center, or he goes towards some of the U.N. convoys, and every time that she leaves, she's afraid that she's

losing her life because these areas are actually facing gunfire.

There are population that are actually -- this young boy, 14 years old, could die just for a kg of wheat flour. That is the situation on the

ground.

SOARES: And, you know, at Nasser Hospital, three -- says three were killed near the same site today. I think we've seen 53 aid seekers killed today

according to Gaza's Health Ministry. That speaks to exactly what you have been saying. You -- I spoke -- Antoine, this week to Dr. Maynard(ph), who

you will know very well, who spoke very eloquently, incredibly detailed about the impact of malnutrition and what that does to the human body.

On a psychological level, as you speak to these mothers who are sharing a loaf of bread with their entire family, what are you seeing? Speak to the

psychological impact here.

RENARD: You can't believe is the -- is the level of despair of -- there is no tomorrow. You actually have many of these female-headed households, the

first challenge that they have is actually themselves. They are actually deprived from what is the basics. They are actually begging to actually

manage to have from any of the neighbors that have still a son, that still have, you know, a man that is around to manage, to bring them a bit of

food.

But the problem that you have is that the whole population is actually facing a wave of starvation. So, you have a whole social fabric that

currently is collapsing in Gaza. And that's what you see when you actually go to any of the tent. The main message I'm getting also from some of these

women is, where are the bakery that used to be around? Where is the kitchen?

Because now, there are very few kitchens still up and running with a bit of boiled water and lentils. They are asking me and begging me to say, but

where were your distribution systems? They've been disrupted. I can't explain that to them. So, what they're really asking for is bring back what

was the kitchen around the corner? The bakery that was there with actually fresh bread?

Where is also the box where I could queue on a monthly basis to actually serve my children? This is what people are telling me on the ground.

SOARES: And I understand, and correct me if I'm wrong here, Antoine, I understand from my team that you've also visited the north of Gaza. Is this

correct? Just correct me if I'm wrong here.

RENARD: Correct.

SOARES: Can you tell us what you saw --

RENARD: No, correct --

SOARES: Because we have a very limited sense of what is happening in the north.

RENARD: So, what you have -- and that's why currently, I'm in Gaza city. I actually wanted to make sure I was with the team of the World Food Program,

but also all the humanitarian that are currently still operating in Gaza. We are working on convoy that are either coming from Kerem Shalom, which is

in the south, or from Zikim, which is one of the entry points in the north.

What I have been doing with our team on the World Food Program is actually to be part of the convoy. What the World Food Program is actually making

sure is that there's more food getting in. Our objective is to have 100 trucks every day to get into Gaza. And so far, we had an average of 80, and

today, we managed to have a 100.

But to tell you what's going on, to just bring these trucks, it's actually our team are spending hours and hours to actually go sometimes through some

of the most densely areas with empty trucks, with our own armored vehicle. We run through people. We actually get to a checkpoint, finally get on the

platform, and you have thousands and thousands of people that are just waiting that will come out of the checkpoint because we have a single road

to go up and to go down.

[14:30:08]

And currently the prices of any commodity are still skyrocketing. The only positive objective that we can see is thanks to the fact that we brought

around 6,000 metric tons over the last week. The price of wheat flour went from 85 U.S. dollars for one KG to now around -- it's around 12 U.S.

dollars. But that's all we managed to do. We managed to restart our distribution systems.

SOARES: And very briefly before we go here, Antoine. You know, we mentioned Mike Huckabee visiting today, praising -- I should say praising the human -

- Gaza Humanitarian Foundation. I think he said, you know, the fact that it distributed some 100 million meals in Gaza. When you hear that, how do you

react?

RENARD: Well, the point that you have is that if you look at any families that you can stand with in Gaza City, you realize that it's not sufficient

in terms of the number of distribution centers. What is important is that we to reinstate a scale where population are. You can't do 20 kilometers

actually to fetch your food. There's still a conflict that is ongoing. There are risks every time you move into Gaza.

So, I think that my main message to you is that we need to be able to do a search and not just through a pause, we need actually a ceasefire. The last

one, we used to move 500 trucks, 600 trucks on a daily basis. And now we're actually contemplating 100 trucks a day. This is not sufficient.

SOARES: Yes. And just to put into perspective, yet again from we heard from the U.S., if 100 million meals have been distributed to Gaza, each one of

Gaza's 2.1 million people, that works out at just one meal a day for 47 days for every resident. Just some perspective there for our viewers.

Antoine, thank you very much. It's always good to see you, Antoine. I appreciate it.

RENARD: Thank you.

SOARES: We are -- thank you. We are going to take a short break. We're back on the other side.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:35:45]

SOARES: Welcome back. We're going to start with breaking news. Well, breaking news -- the news that we've been following here on Trump trade

tariffs. Of course, the stinging new tariffs we have seen imposed by the U.S. And we're about to see a whole new world of global trade relations.

And none of the United States top trading partners are being spared.

All in all, the average tariff rate for U.S. imports last year was around 1.2 percent. That is according to research from Yale. Now, just with

perspective, it is, as you can see there in your screen, 18 percent. We've seen Stock Markets all in the red as a result of these trade tariffs as

we've brought you at the top of the show. Dow Jones down, what, one and two -- and two-tenths of a percent.

Joining me now is Pascal Lamy, who led the World Trade Organization from 2005 to 2013. Mr. Lamy, great to see you. We are seeing, I think it's fair

to say, and this is our top story this hour, pretty punishing trade wall from this U.S. administration. You spent, what, two terms as Director-

General of the WTO, of the World Trade Organization. How does it feel to see it all being undone here under President Trump?

PASCAL LAMY, FORMER DIRECTOR-GENERAL, WORLD TRADE ORGANIZATION: Well, that's a very good question. But I wouldn't go as far as saying that it's

all changed. The U.S. have changed. We now have a protectionist president who needs money to fill U.S. coffers and who is extorting this money from

trade partners. So, the reasoning is very simple. I am stronger than you are. I need you to pay. If you don't pay, I'll hit you. Assuming --

SOARES: Extorting? That sounds like a bully.

LAMY: Absolutely. That's exactly what it is. Assuming, of course, that it's the exporter that pays the tariff, whether as we all know, it's the

importer and the domestic U.S. consumer who will pay the tariff. So, that's where we are for the moment. As I often say, Broadway has invented soap

operas. President Trump has invented trade soap operas.

So, the previous episode was about August 1. That's over. We are now on the next episode, which is August 7. And he will decide, according to his mood,

whether the tariff to be paid is 10 percent or 15 percent or 25 percent or 30 percent or 50 percent, depending whether basically he likes you or not.

So, it's like -- you know, it's like going to the hairdresser and saying, I need my haircut. And the guy will look at you and say, well, today it's

going to be 10 bucks. Maybe next time 25. Oh, maybe 30.

So that's where we are. This is not a change in world trade paradigm. It's a change in the way we now have to trade with the U.S., which is 13 percent

of wealth imports, one- three, 13 percent of wealth imports. Provided remaining 87 remain cool-headed and don't get contaminated by this

protectionist fever, I think at the end of the day markets will adjust.

SOARES: I wonder then -- I mean, I want to, given everything you just laid out and the rationale that we keep hearing from the president side, you

know, that the U.S. is being robbed, the countries are stealing prosperity for the United States, I wonder whether you think there is a risk if the

president continues with this tariff soap opera as you're calling it, that we're likely to see a global trade shift. Speak to those risks.

LAMY: I do not think so. I think there is a risk for the U.S. economy because of sort of 20 percent average tariff, which is probably where the

U.S. are going, is going to create inflation and is going to distort trade and a variety of supply chains which are very important for the U.S.

economy. So, the risk is not a global risk. It is a U.S. risk. If the U.S. economy slows down, if the Fed has to increase interest rates to fight

against inflation, this will be a problem for the U.S.

Of course, none of us, whether it's E.U., China, Brazil, Indonesia, Vietnam, like to pay tariffs because it makes that trade more difficult.

But as long as between our sales, we compensate what we lose on the U.S. market by opening more our markets, E.U., Brazil, China, India, and so on,

then I think the system can adjust, which is, by the way, why I observe that markets are relatively calm as compared to what was announced in last

day three of the famous liberation day. Markets so far have been relatively calm. They have gone down a bit for the last two days, but it's not a big

crisis. It's the problem for the U.S. and with the U.S.

[14:41:37]

SOARES: Yes, they probably can see this soap opera continue to play out, probably price in at some point, and many of them reacting, of course, to

the U.S. jobs report. Mr. Lamy, great to have you on the show. Thank you very much indeed.

LAMY: Many thanks.

SOARES: Thank you. Thank you.

And still to come tonight, a new declaration is calling for Hamas to disarm. We'll tell you the surprising support it has and if it could lead

to an end of the war in Gaza. That is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SOARES: And this just into CNN. After a surprisingly negative set of jobs numbers that we brought you at the top of the show was released this

morning, President Donald Trump is now ordering the head of the Bureau of Labor Statistics who was nominated by former President Joe Biden to be

fired.

Kevin Liptak is at the White House. He put this in a Truth Social. And Kevin, I have to say, this is the sort of thing you would see kind of in

authoritarian countries. What more what can you tell us?

[14:45:04]

KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yes. And I should say, you know, faith in these numbers has been eroded over time, including by

political attacks from Donald Trump during last year's election. It is clear that this had been in his head in some way before today, but I think

today's numbers, which were so negative, which were showing a really surprisingly weak labor market, did appear to put him over the edge.

And the President is pointing out that the labor statistics commissioner was appointed by Joe Biden and essentially using that as a pretext to try

and make the case that she is not putting out accurate figures, saying that no -- saying that we need accurate job numbers and that he was immediately

directing his team to fire this Biden political appointee.

Now, she had been nominated to serve a four-year term and she was confirmed overwhelmingly by the Republican Senate. I think the vote was something

like 88-6. So, many, many Republicans voted to confirm her. She was a career economist with something of a long career in various economic

positions inside the federal government, nonpolitical positions, ones that are typically held by career appointees.

The President says that she'll be replaced by someone much more competent and qualified. Important numbers like these must be fair and accurate. They

can't be manipulated for political purposes.

Now, there is absolutely no evidence that the jobs numbers that came out today had been manipulated for political purposes. What is true is that

they did contain some pretty major revisions from earlier this summer, essentially revising those numbers downward. That in a lot of ways is

standard for these jobs figures. You know, they do multiple surveys. They haven't -- the -- in the past, you know, several years the numbers have

been sort of soft in the beginning because they don't get a lot of responses to the initial survey. So, they have to go back and survey again

to get more accurate figures.

The President seems to be suggesting that those were mistakes that were responsible for this commissioner. And so, the President now calling for

her firing. But of course, this raises the question of whether the person that the President puts in place after her, whether those numbers could be

trusted. You know, the President is suggesting that she cannot be trusted to put out accurate figures. But the act of firing her as retribution just

certainly raises the question of whether any number could be trusted coming out of that body now that the President has kind of injected this

politicization into what has ordinarily been a very stalwartly apolitical, nonpartisan organization.

SOARES: Kevin Liptak for us there at the White House. Thank you very much. We're going to take a short break. But before we go, let me show you the

Stock Markets, how they reacting, not just to the jobs report that Kevin was talking about, but also the tariffs we were seeing from the U.S.

administration. We're back after this short break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:50:38]

SOARES: It's been a potentially historic week in terms of diplomatic shifts in the Middle East. There's been a renewed call for countries around the

world for a recognized Palestinian state. And in a first, Arab and Muslim states coming together to demand Hamas disarm and relinquish power in Gaza.

Let's get more on this. Ambassador Hossam Zaki, he is the Assistant Secretary General of the Arab League. He joins me now. Ambassador, welcome

back to the show. The announcement that we've seen from the Arab League, I think certainly unprecedented. I wonder, Ambassador, what the response has

been from Hamas, if anything at all, for this call to disarm and relinquish power. What are you hearing?

HOSSAM ZAKI, ASSISTANT SECRETARY-GENERAL, LEAGUE OF ARAB STATES: Well, thank you for having me, Isa. I don't think it's accurate to call it the

Arab League is calling because this was not an Arab League meeting. It was part of the New York conference, the International Conference for the two-

state solution. And this was part of the final document that contained many, many elements including the one that you're referring to which is

about Hamas's relinquishing power in Gaza in the future.

So, yes, we -- our countries adhere to this call and I think it is the most sensible thing to do. And this has been debated longly in Arab circles and

even within some Arab League meetings. But this is the first time, it is true, to see this kind of language used internationally with Arab adherence

to it.

SOARES: That's right. And it -- you know, the Arab League and the other one, there were so many other signatories of course from across Europe as

well. I wonder then what you think what the feedback what the response has been because Hamas has consistently of course rejected calls to disarm or

seize control of Gaza.

Qatar -- Egypt is one of the signatories. They've been mediators in these ceasefire negotiations. What are you hearing from them? What have the

signals been or whether this is possible at all?

ZAKI: Well, it is -- it is possible. It's not impossible to do it. Maybe it will be difficult to achieve, but it is clear now that countries including

those who are negotiating the ceasefire and including those who are neighbors of Palestine and in this case Gaza i.e. Egypt in particular, it

is clear that this kind of situation is untenable and unsustainable.

And while we all blame Israel for that, and we know that Israel is has been waging a criminal war, a genocidal war against our people in Palestine,

truth has to be said too that the Palestinian side, in this case Hamas, has not been uh delivering what it should have been delivering in order to

salvage the population from such a criminal war.

So, it is high time for the Arab countries to issue or to adhere to such an international call for Hamas to relinquish power in Gaza.

SOARES: Right. So, I'm guessing from what you've told me so far, Ambassador, that you haven't -- there's been no response so far from Hamas

to this kind of historic -- and to this -- to this call, of course, international call that we've been hearing. I'm guessing from your answer

that you haven't heard anything from Hamas.

But I also wonder in calling for Hamas to relinquish control --

ZAKI: It's true. We haven't --

SOARES: I would suspect, Ambassador, that the signatories of this, not just the Arab League, of course, would have a sense of just how weakened or how

depleted Hamas is. What is your assessment? Because that would of course would determine whether disarming and relinquishing power is actually

possible.

ZAKI: Listen, we think that it is -- it is high time in order to salvage the population in Gaza from the criminal actions that have been taken by

the occupying power to assume the responsibilities that one should assume. In this case, Hamas bears a particular responsibility. The Palestinian

Authority albeit a weakened authority, an impoverished authority because of Israel actions too, is in a position with the support of all Arab countries

and the international community to take over, and rightly so.

We have always said that Palestinians should be governed by Palestinians, nobody else. And we have been seeing and witnessing the unlawful and

criminal actions that this so-called humanitarian organization is doing in Gaza right now. So, let us get back to the basics. Palestinians should

govern Palestinians. It is high time for the Palestinian Authority to resume its takeover of the Gaza Strip as it has been doing in areas in the

West Bank under its jurisdiction.

[14:56:16]

SOARES: Ambassador, we are running out of time. We're incredibly grateful though for you coming on the show. Thank you very much indeed, Ambassador.

A busy hour of news. Do stay right here. "WHAT WE KNOW" with Christina Macfarlane is up next.

END