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Isa Soares Tonight
Israel's Plan To Take Over Gaza City Sparks Global Condemnation; Trump's Friday Deadline Arrives For Russia To Agree On A Ceasefire; Trump Hosts Leaders Of Armenia And Azerbaijan; Israeli Security Cabinet Approves Plan To Control Gaza City; Man Fights To Regain U.K. Citizenship After Jihadist Accusations; Wildfire Threat Grows Under Peak Heat Conditions. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired August 08, 2025 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00]
ISA SOARES, HOST, ISA SOARES TONIGHT: A very warm welcome to the show, everyone, I'm Isa Soares. Tonight, Israel's plan to take over Gaza city
sparks global condemnation as well as anger inside of Israel. We're live on the ground with the very latest for you. Then will the U.S. follow through
on the threat of new sanctions on Russia? More on today's deadline coming up.
Plus, Donald Trump hosting the leaders of Armenia and Azerbaijan this hour to finalize a peace agreement. We'll have more on that and much more later
this hour. But first, tonight, Israel's government is facing fierce backlash both at home and abroad over its plan to besiege and take over
Gaza city, with the Palestinian Authority warning it will lead to an unprecedented humanitarian catastrophe.
The Israeli military's Chief of Staff gathered commanders today to begin preparations, despite his reported opposition to such plan. A source says
he was shouted at by members of Israel's security cabinet who approved the plan after a nearly ten-hour marathon meeting.
Well, hours after that decision, Israel launched new strikes on Gaza city, turning a residential building into rubble. An Israeli source says the plan
calls for the evacuation of Gaza city's 1 million people within two months, moving them to compounds in the south. Critics say this is no evacuation,
but ethnic cleansing instead. Many Palestinians in Gaza city insist they will not leave their homes, though. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): This is shameful. Are we able to move our children? I am old, how can I move? How can I walk? How can I go?
And the children, and those who are pregnant? It is all displacement? Where should we go?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): There is no place for us in the south. We stayed in the south and they made us move to the north. We stayed
in the north, then they made us move to west Gaza. We stayed at the seaside area, and from here and there, they keep making us move. Where should we
go? There's nothing we can do. I say let us die where we are. It is better.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: And given that opposition, this is a critical point. An Israeli source says Israel plans no aid distribution within Gaza city during its
new offensive, as a way of forcing hungry Palestinians to leave. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says Israel will not occupy Gaza, but will free
it from Hamas.
He says that will help free the remaining hostages. But a forum of hostage families says the government has, quote, "sentenced the living hostages to
death." Some family members even chained themselves in front of the security cabinet meeting as you can see there, in protest.
And opposition leader Yair Lapid also has blistering criticism for the plan, calling it a disaster that will lead to many more disasters to come.
Let me go now to our Matthew Chance, who joins us this hour in Jerusalem. Matthew, as we just heard there in that introduction, we are starting to
see international condemnation, which we'll get to further on in the show to this plan.
A plan we know very little about. What are you hearing on how this military action will be carried? When it will be carried? And what happens then,
Matthew, as we heard from those individuals in Gaza that they don't want to leave. What happens if Palestinians don't move?
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, I mean, it's -- look, I mean, the problem and the concern from a Palestinian point of view
and an international point of view about this, you know, whole plan is that it's going to involve Israel moving into the most densely-populated area of
the Gaza Strip, which is filled with up to a million Palestinians in that Gaza city area.
Many of them have already been displaced several times in the past two years since the start of Israel's military action. There are -- on many
instances, in a very dire humanitarian state. And so, this is going to place further pressure on that already, you know, very -- you know, hard
done by Palestinian society on the ground in Gaza city.
And a military action there is inevitably, you know, going to inflict pretty high casualties, certainly, that's been the experience of past
military operations elsewhere in the Gaza Strip.
[14:05:00]
The other sort of major concern, particularly in Israel, about Israel deciding it's going to double down on its military operations in that
particular area, is that it's also the part of the Gaza Strip where it's believed some, if not the majority of the hostages are being held. Now,
there are 50 hostages still being held inside the Gaza Strip, 20 of them are believed to be still alive.
And as you mentioned, the hostage families, you know, supported by the vast majority of Israelis in the general public, in fact, believe that this
decision by the Israeli security cabinet essentially is a death sentence. It would jeopardize the security, the safety, such as it is of those
surviving hostages.
And that's one of the reasons why so many people are so vehemently opposed to this latest Israeli government, Benjamin Netanyahu decision.
SOARES: And it's not just, of course, the families of the hostages, Matthew, but also those with children who will be called up as reservists.
Do we have a sense how many reservists are needed here, and what you're hearing from them?
CHANCE: Well, look, obviously, it's going to be tens of thousands, but you're absolutely right. The families of the hostages are just one element
of the opposition. There's also, you know, as you mentioned, the reservists, the people who are in the military, they've already been on
many occasions serving for, you know, many months.
Some of them for the whole two years, almost, since the October the 7th massacres in southern Israel. And frankly, people are exhausted and tired
of ongoing conflicts, not just in Gaza, but in Lebanon and in Syria and with Iran. And Israelis just want a sort of -- well, the majority of them,
want the -- sort of a sense of normality to return back to the country.
The military itself has expressed concerns about how exhausted its reservists, army reservist army is. I mean, there's been a real spike in,
for example, suicides in military figures who have come out from the frontline and have not been able to re-adjust to civilian life, something
that we haven't seen in any significant numbers in these significant numbers in Israel.
The only group of people in Israel who are, you know, four-square behind this initiative to go into Gaza and to double down on the military
operations are the hard luck -- hard right? The coalition partners on the extreme right-wing of Israeli politics on whom Benjamin Netanyahu depends
so completely for his fragile, you know, coalition.
So, there's a lot of allegations that this whole operation is designed not for the benefit of the country, but to keep Netanyahu in power.
SOARES: Matthew Chance for us this hour, thank you very much, Matthew. And you may remember, earlier this week, U.S. President Donald Trump said it
was up to Israel, were his words to decide whether to fully occupy and conquer Gaza. Well, today, his ambassador to Israel repeated that hands-off
approach. Have a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIKE HUCKABEE, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO ISRAEL: Up until this very moment, the position of the President has been that he respects that Israel has a right
to defend itself. It has a right to determine how it does that. Certainly, we're a partner with Israel. We care very much about the way things go
forward, but it's never been the role of the U.S. to dictate Israel's policy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: The Palestinian Authority, meanwhile, is demanding the United States take a tougher stance.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NABIL ABU RUDEINEH, SPOKESPERSON, PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY PRESIDENCY (through translator): We hold the American administration responsible for curbing
the Israeli policy, because American statements only encourage Israel to continue the war. Therefore, we, the Palestinian presidency are in constant
contact today with Arab leaders and with the world to condemn and reject this action, and to exert efforts at all levels to stop this aggression.
This is a dangerous aggression. And these statements are irresponsible. And U.S. administration has a great responsibility to stop this escalation
because it will have a negative impact on everyone.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: We have also been hearing condemnation from Europe and Israel's Arab neighbors. Egypt says Israel's plan amounts to a full occupation of
Gaza and will eliminate the Palestinian cause, their words. Belgium summoned Israel's ambassador, slamming what it calls Israel's continued
colonization of Palestinian land, while Germany announced it will halt the export of military equipment to Israel that could be used in the war.
British Prime Minister Keir Starmer says Israel's plan is wrong, urging it to immediately reconsider. I'm joined now by Sir Malcolm Rifkind, who
served as both Foreign Secretary and Defense Secretary of Britain.
[14:10:00]
Sir Malcolm, welcome to the show. Let me pick up with --
MALCOLM RIFKIND, FORMER FOREIGN & DEFENSE SECRETARY OF UNITED KINGDOM: Thank you --
SOARES: What we heard today from Prime Minister Starmer, saying that, you know, the decision to take over Gaza city is wrong. He then also urged
Prime Minister Netanyahu to reconsider -- a clear condemnation in what we heard from him. Does this go far enough, in your opinion, Sir Malcolm?
RIFKIND: Well, it's only an initial statement because otherwise I would agree with you, it would not go far enough. But I think this is without
doubt the most serious crisis. And I say this as a long-term supporter of Israel and of its right to defend itself. I think this is the most serious
crisis and the most disgusting initiative that we've seen from Mr. Netanyahu in the last two years.
And what I think backs up the remarks I just made is the overwhelming opposition of the Israeli public and many in the Israeli military saying
this is not only a very dangerous escalation, but it is one that will inevitably fail. And I think what it's going -- already leading to is not
just critics of Israel, normal critics of Israel, Israel's closest friends and allies apart from Mr. Trump, have unreservedly condemned this and will
be taking action.
I think it's remarkable, for example, the German government already saying they are going to suspend arms sales because Germany has been particularly
sensitive not to --
SOARES: Yes --
RIFKIND: Criticize Israel because of historical reasons going back to the second World War. So, we're in a very new ball game, and something that is
going to be very damaging to Israel's national interests and its own security.
SOARES: And we have, like you said, seen strong allies of Israel, like you said, Germany halting arms exports to Israel for use in Gaza, basically
saying, don't do it. Yet, Netanyahu, Sir Malcolm, is going ahead. So, I wonder what pressure should be applied by international governments other
than condemnation, perhaps.
Does this -- does international condemnation carry any weight if the U.S. doesn't back them, as you probably heard from the U.S. --
RIFKIND: Bright -- well --
SOARES: Ambassador to Israel?
RIFKIND: It is right to have condemnation -- yes, it's right to have condemnation, but it's not enough. Words are not enough. And I think we've
got a new situation fundamentally different.
SOARES: Yes --
RIFKIND: We've already seen the reaction of the Israeli public, most of whom seem as critical of their government as is the international
community. We've seen the reaction of the hostage families of the hostages who are now desperate and say -- this is their words, not mine, a death
sentence for members of their family.
And we have to see the friends of Israel who still remain committed to Israel as a nation, but are increasingly disillusioned and indeed very
disgusted with the behavior of their Prime Minister and those who support him. And I hope it is not unreasonable to expect from President Trump
something more than indifference.
The fact remains that President Trump could do more than almost any other individual who is not an Israeli, to actually change this policy. And he
will be damaging -- and he is already damaging his own reputation because he constantly says to people he's horrified when people are being killed in
various countries around the world by callous governments.
Well, why is the exception to that? What is happening in Gaza as a result and will be exaggerated -- not exaggerated.
SOARES: Yes --
RIFKIND: It will get far worse as a result of the current Israeli government's policy.
SOARES: And the fear is, Sir Malcolm, is, you know, while the plan is to take over occupied Gaza city, that it may not end there. We have heard from
many months from far-right members of Prime Minister Netanyahu's party, the likes of Ben-Gvir and Smotrich, who want to expel Palestinians.
And there is no clarity in this five-point plan that we heard from Prime Minister Netanyahu of what happens to Gaza after. There's no clarity. Is
this something that worries you in terms of this five-point plan?
RIFKIND: Yes, you're quite right. It's not a five-point plan. It's a series of statements which don't bear any convincing relationship to each other.
For example, Mr. Netanyahu did choose to say that Israel has no intention of remaining in Gaza indefinitely. It is not going to be incorporated
within Israel, which will no doubt upset Mr. Gvir and Mr. Smotrich.
But it's unconvincing because if you're going to pull out of Gaza in due course, then you have to be starting now to identify the alternative
administration, not Hamas. Everyone agrees that Hamas will never again govern Gaza. That is agreed by the Arab states, not just by Israel's
traditional friends and by others so associated.
So, if the Israeli government is to be believed that it has a plan to withdraw from Gaza once it's finished its current military operations, then
they should be taking active steps to identify the moderate Palestinians.
[14:15:00]
And there are thousands of them, both within Gaza and in the West Bank. People who are not politicians, they are technical, they're lawyers,
industrialists, businessmen, scientists, academics, people who would only be too delighted to give an opportunity to serve in a peaceful way, to
recreate the administration of Gaza, its health service, its educational services, transport and other necessary requirements.
There's all the evidence that Mr. Netanyahu does not have the slightest intention to do anything --
SOARES: Yes --
RIFKIND: Of that kind, which shows that he is a hypocrite as well as being a very dangerous threat to the well-being of Israel, of its security, as
well as of the people of Gaza.
SOARES: Then a twin -- final twin thought for you then, given what you've just said and what we are seeing on the ground and what Prime Minister
Netanyahu has said in the last 24 hours -- less than 24 hours, should the likes of Prime Minister Starmer, should the U.K. be sanctioning Prime
Minister Netanyahu? Do you think that the government should recognize Palestine sooner without those conditions they imposed for September?
RIFKIND: Well, I think that the -- the first -- the first thing that should happen is that the British government should follow what the German
government has announced. To be fair, the British government announced some weeks ago that it was going to suspend certain kinds of arms sales --
SOARES: Right --
RIFKIND: To Israel. Well, that needs to be built upon, that needs to be done very -- emphatically. And there are other ways trading contracts,
contacts with Israel, various other arrangements we have, not to be permanently disconnected. And that's the last thing I would want to see.
Israel should -- it remains a functioning democracy.
It's a country that has the rule of law. So, it's not the people of Israel that we must take action against. It is this government to demonstrate that
it is isolated in a way that it has never been before, but only as a result of its own behavior by its Prime Minister and by those in his immediate war
cabinet so-called, who are supporting him.
SOARES: Sir Malcolm Rifkind, I really appreciate you taking the time to speak to us. Thank you, sir.
RIFKIND: Thank you very much.
SOARES: Thank you. Well, today is the deadline for President Donald Trump that he put in place for Russia to move towards peace with Ukraine or face,
if you remember, those severe economic consequences. After 9:00 p.m. in Moscow and there's still no word on new sanctions against the Kremlin.
We are also waiting for both countries to finalize plans for a potential Trump-Putin summit. The Russian President is wanted by the ICC for alleged
war crimes, so the Kremlin would want to make sure that talks don't take place in a country where he'd be arrested. Russian state media says a
summit could happen in an Arab country.
Mr. Trump says his Russian counterpart does not have to meet with Ukraine's President in order to meet with him. Our Nick Paton Walsh joins us now from
Kyiv with the very latest. So, Nic, as we hear now from both sides of a potential meeting here, I mean, put your analysis hat on for our viewers
around the world. What does this signify? Is this potentially positive for Ukraine? How do you read this?
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL SECURITY EDITOR: I mean, obviously, if there was what Ukraine refers to as a just peace, an end to the war that
ultimately enables the fighting to permanently stop and not just Russia to regroup and then push again forwards and Ukraine isn't asked to make
painful, unacceptable concessions, then, yes, peace deal certainly will, I think, stop -- many Ukrainians nervous that they are seeing themselves on
the losing end on the frontlines now.
But we're a world away from that still. And the last few days flurry of excitement around, potentially, a trilateral meeting between Trump, Putin
and Zelenskyy has now become a discussion about Trump and Putin meeting. "TASS"; the Russian state agency, saying, well, that may happen at the end
of next week. That's not in rapidly short order.
And clearly, we haven't got a precise date or a location for that yet. At the same time, there have been some reports circulating, notably from
"Bloomberg", that has suggested that we may see a deal proposed. One of the many possible permutations I'm sure, being discussed, in which Ukraine
would agree to relinquish what it remains having control of in Donetsk and Luhansk regions, part of Putin's war goals, and then get for that a stop in
the fighting.
Now, that's something a European official I have spoken to has suggested is mostly accurate, but there have been a flurry of discussions, this official
said around that particular idea and other ideas too, most notably, Putin has been on the phone to the Chinese President, Xi Jinping, to the Indian
Prime Minister, Narendra Modi, the first conversation the Chinese, according to a readout, suggested that they were pleased with the U.S.-
Russia relationship showing improvement, and the Indians seem to have suggested that they again want to see a diplomatic outcome here.
[14:20:00]
Why is that important? Well, China and India are the two countries who are major energy consumers of Russia, essentially bankrolling its war, who may
be targeted by secondary sanctions from President Trump. We've not seen them yet. He has said he's going to hit the Indians hard, possibly in two-
and-a half weeks or so with secondary tariffs.
So, those are there, but the real damage would be done to China potentially, and they have key influence over Moscow. So, a lot that hasn't
happened yet, a lot that may well be delayed to the disappointment of European allies and Ukraine -- remember, they've been here before.
We've had a ceasefire demand back in May from the European leaders, originally an American idea, which the European leaders in a visit to Kyiv
pictured themselves on the phone to President Trump. And they said he guaranteed sanctions if Russia didn't go along with it. He changed his
mind.
He instead indulged in this process in Istanbul where another trilateral summit was suggested that Russia rejected. We've been down this road before
as well, and now again today, this fateful deadline that he brought forward from September to August the 8th after meeting with U.K. Prime Minister
Keir Starmer, he's now, as of today, said what he's going to do to India down the line.
But China so far unclear. So, an awful lot moving here certainly, but a lot of concerns that we're not seeing those tough actions, and we still don't
have a date for the supposed bilateral meeting, which isn't necessarily even going to involve Ukraine later on. Isa?
SOARES: Nick, appreciate it, Nick Paton Walsh for us in Kyiv this hour. And still to come tonight, a deadline for Texas Democrats to return to the
state capital comes and goes. The latest on the state's contentious redistricting fight. That is just ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: And this just in. The Texas State House has adjourned, leaving again without a quorum. This after a deadline for Democratic lawmakers to
return to the state capitol passed about 23 minutes or so ago. Dozens of Democrats have fled the state in their mission to block Republican efforts
to redraw the state's congressional map.
The move could produce as many as five more U.S. House seats for Republicans. At least, 12 Democrats had to be present at the capitol to
meet quorum. Just five showed up. One state representative says Democrats will remain absent for the next two weeks. Arlette Saenz is following this
for us and joins me now from Washington. So, Arlette, well, what happens now?
ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that is the big question as Texas House Democrats have once again denied Republicans in the state the ability
to push ahead with those plans to redistrict their congressional maps.
[14:25:00]
Now, there's a lot of big questions for both parties going forward. Republicans are running up against a very tight deadline, and they may not
have enough time to actually get these maps through the House and through the Senate in Texas before the end of the special session in about ten
days.
Then on the Democratic side, there are still big questions about how long these lawmakers will stay away from Austin, as dozens have decamped to
other states. Now, a Texas House reconvened today at 1:00 p.m. Central Time, and they fell short of meeting that quorum that Republicans needed.
They needed five more people to be on hand.
There have been a lot of speculation heading into the votes, whether there actually might have been enough Democrats in the chamber, but they did not
meet that quorum as Democrats are showing that they remain undeterred in trying to put up a fight to these congressional maps. But this is a
trending towards the possibility that this could be quite a lengthy process.
That is something that both the Republican Governor, Greg Abbott, has acknowledged, as well as other Democratic leaders in the state. Take a
listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. GREG ABBOTT (R-TX): We do expect a quorum to be coming sometime soon. But listen, if it's not -- we're not afraid because a special session lasts
30 days, and I will be calling special session after special session. And we are going to get these maps passed regardless of how long the Democrats
hold out in these leftist states like Illinois and New York and others.
JAMES TALARICO, TEXAS STATE HOUSE DEMOCRAT: They are literally threatening to remove the people's representatives from office. And so, this is a page
out of an authoritarian playbook we've seen in other countries. They may be coming for Texas Democrats now, but if this continues, they eventually come
for all of us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SAENZ: Now, Republican leaders in Texas have really ramped up a pressure campaign to try to get these Democrats back to the state. You have the
Attorney General, Ken Paxton, who has asked courts in Illinois to enforce those arrest warrants for those Texas Democrats, saying that the warrants
that are applicable in Texas should also be applicable in the state of Illinois.
It's unclear whether a judge will in fact rule with those Texas Republicans. They are also trying to withhold paychecks, saying that they
can no longer -- these Texas Democrats can no longer receive their paychecks via direct deposit. They actually need to come in person to pick
up those checks. And then there are those efforts from the Attorney General in the state and the governor to try to declare some of these seats vacant
as these Texas legislators remain outside of the state.
So, a lot of big questions going forward about how long this standoff will continue. The Texas House Speaker says he plans to try to reconvene again
on Monday to try to meet that quorum. So, we'll see whether Democrats stick together as they are trying to put this fight to those congressional maps
in Texas.
SOARES: And these civil arrest warrants that we're talking about, that Texas House Speaker is trying to push through in Illinois, some of those
Democrats were -- fled there. But are we likely to see other lawsuits in other states here? I mean, is this even legal first of all?
SAENZ: Well, so the Texas House Speaker Dustin Burrows actually just a few minutes ago said that they do plan on filing lawsuits in other states. Now,
there are questions about where exactly these Texas Democrats are. We believe the majority of them are in Illinois, some earlier in the week had
traveled to New York and to Massachusetts.
It's unclear whether any remain there. A few will actually be over in California later today, meeting with California Governor Gavin Newsom, who
has pledged to bring up a redrawing of maps in his state if these Texas plans go forward. So, there's still a lot of questions about whether they
can actually use law enforcement to get these Texas Democrats.
But Republicans are trying, Democrats argue they don't have the jurisdiction to do that, since these are civil arrest warrants and not
federal ones.
SOARES: Arlette, I don't think this story is going away any time soon, appreciate it, thanks very much. Now, the Trump administration has doubled
the U.S. bounty of Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro. The U.S. Attorney General announced Thursday a $50 million reward for information leading to
Mr. Maduro's arrest.
Venezuela's Foreign Minister calls the reward a quote, "ridiculous smokescreen". The U.S. accuses Mr. Maduro of using cartel members to bring
deadly drugs and violence into the U.S. During President Trump's first term, the bounty was set at $15 million after the Justice Department
accused the South American strongman of narco terrorism and other charges.
Former President Joe Biden increased it to $25 million. And a deepening crisis of destruction and disaster in Gaza could get even worse after
Israel's cabinet approves plans to fully take over the enclave. We'll have the details ahead for you. And then later, CNN's Clarissa Ward speaks to a
man in Syria fighting to get his British passport back. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:33:39]
SOARES: Updating our top story this hour. Israeli forces are preparing for a full takeover of Gaza City despite a global outcry and mounting
international opposition. The five-month plan would take place in several phases and that is according to the prime minister's office. It would begin
with Gaza City.
An Israeli source says the evacuation of the city's one million residents would be done by October the 7th. That's the two-year anniversary of the
Hamas-led attack on Israel. Israel's own military chief warned of the danger, but his concerns were brushed aside in a heated 10-hour security
cabinet meeting.
Well, protest you could see there erupted in Israel ahead of the vote. A hostage families group calls the decision a colossal catastrophe. The
Palestinian Authority says this will lead to unprecedented humanitarian crisis. Palestinians in Gaza have already endured 22 months of war and a
hunger crisis.
Let's bring in Gershon Baskin. He's the Middle East director of International Communities Organization, an NGO based in Britain and a
former Israeli hostage negotiator who joins us now from Jerusalem.
Gershon, thank you very much for coming on the show. We have been seeing for the last what several hours international condemnation to Prime
Minister Netanyahu's decision to take over Gaza City. Condemnation from some of Israel's allies, closest allies, the likes of Germany. She's now
saying it's halting its arms exports to Israel for using Gaza. But also we're seeing, as we played that little clip there, growing alarm at home.
You are in Jerusalem. How is this being received -- the decision being received here?
[14:35:22]
GERSHON BASKIN, MIDDLE EAST DIRECTOR, INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITIES' ORGANIZATION: There's a lot of anxiety particularly amongst those who have
been protesting for 22 months now to save the hostages who are left in Gaza. And naturally, the hostage families are desperate. We've seen videos
released by Hamas in the last two weeks of starved hostages in tunnels in Gaza who are going to die if they're not rescued soon. We're talking about
50 hostages of 20 who -- of whom are believed to be alive.
But bigger than that, I think should be our concern for the millions of people in Gaza who have suffered so much in the last 22 months. 60,000
reportedly dead. The number is going to be more than that with tens of thousands of children amongst them. And two million people are homeless in
Gaza. It's very clear that Israel has already committed war crimes in Gaza. And this is just going to compound those war crimes. If the act of Germany
-- the Germans telling the Israelis that they're putting an arms embargo in Israel, the state of Israel is becoming a pariah state in the world and
Israelis won't feel welcomed anywhere they go.
SOARES: So, Gershon, just explain to our viewers around the world. I mean, why then is Prime Minister Netanyahu going ahead with his plan when the
army is against it, the opposition's against it, and many Israelis, including hostage families and those, of course, worried about their young
ones going to reservists being called up, they're against it. I mean, is this -- how do you see is this a political decision?
BASKIN: Of course, it is. This has been a political war for at least a year now. This war could have ended, and Israel could have said that it achieved
its military goals more than a year ago. But the war is continuing because it's a war to save Benjamin Netanyahu's political career and to keep his
coalition intact.
When this war is over, there will be a commission of inquiry in Israel which will hold Netanyahu responsible for what led up to October 7th, for
what happened on October 7, for the failure of Israel to defend itself, for the strategic failures of the Israeli government not to engage with the
Palestinians in a -- in a peace process rather than keeping us in a confrontation with the Palestinians, their leadership divided.
Of course, the Palestinians themselves have a great deal of responsibility here, but from the Israeli point of view, this is a political war. It is
not a strategic war. Israel cannot bring home the hostages through military means. That's been proven according to the Israeli army. 41 Israeli
hostages have been killed during the war because of military pressure, either killed by the Israeli army or executed by Hamas. This is not doable,
and it is --- and even though the majority of Israelis want this war to over -- need it to be over, Netanyahu enjoys a majority support in the
parliament. So, he can't be brought down.
The only one who can make this stop is President Trump. Until now, President Trump has given a green light to Israel to do what it wants. But
I know for a fact that President Trump wants this war to end. And I think we have a window of about two weeks before the army starts this next phase
of the war for a negotiated end of the war to be reached. This is doable. It's possible. Hamas is ready for an end-of-war deal and to release all the
hostages, but Israel has to be told that it should end the war.
SOARES: I was speaking, Gershon, to a former Shin Bet chief, one of I think 600 or so written a letter to President Trump calling him for -- to bring
this war to an end. We spoke to him, I think it was on Tuesday or Monday. I apologize. I can't remember. But he was saying, you know, we met our war
goals very early on. Like you saying, this is political, this is a political war. But then he also spoke of the -- of the -- not just the
isolation for on Israel but also the implications for the region. Is this something that concerns you too, you know, with -- when you have Prime
Minister Netanyahu setting up a five-point plan with no real day after plan, no clear strategy here?
BASKIN: Of course. This war which has been the worst war in our history has to be the last Israeli-Palestinian war. We can't keep doing this. Too many
people have suffered. Too many people have been killed. Too much damage has been done to people's lives. It has to be the last war. And the two-state
solution is back on the table. The Franco-Saudi initiative, the global initiative for the implementation of the two-state solution, the increasing
number of countries that are now going to recognize the state of Palestine. That doesn't change the reality for Palestinians, but it does paint a clear
picture of where we need to go.
Now, as long as Netanyahu is prime minister and his government rules Israel, that's not going to happen. As long as Hamas is ruling Gaza, it's
not going to happen. And unfortunately, as long as President Abbas rules the Palestinian Authority, it's not going to happen. He's been in office
for 20 years without elections. Hamas has been there for 20 years without elections. We need to have new elections. We need leaders in the -- in the
whole region to move us forward.
[14:40:11]
SOARES: Gershon, as always, I really appreciate you taking the time to speak to us. Thank you very much indeed.
BASKIN: Thank you.
SOARES: And still to come tonight, a man in Syria is fighting to have his British citizen -- citizenship, pardon me, restored. Our Clarissa Ward
talks to the man about why it was revoked and his chances of success. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: Well, a man is fighting the British government for stripping him of his citizenship. The U.K. accuses him of working for an al-Qaeda affiliated
group in Syria. But the leader of that group is now the president of Syria and meets with Western leaders. The man tells CNN's Clarissa Ward that that
is a double standard.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Since 2012, British aid worker Tauqir Sharif, known to many as Tox, has been a
fixture in northern Syria. One of thousands of foreigners known as muhajirin who came to Syria to participate in the uprising against the
brutal dictatorship of Bashar al-Assad.
We sat down with Tox for breakfast at his home in the city of A'zaz by the Turkish border.
WARD: Were you always an aid worker? Were you involved in the armed component of the uprising as well?
TAURIQ SHARIF, BRITISH AID WORKER: So, I would say I was always a humanitarian.
WARD: But you're like smiling while you're saying that?
SHARIF: Because a humanitarian encompasses many things, right? Saving lives. So, sometimes in order to save lives, you have to, you know, fight
and defend people. So, would I say that I am an all -- all-out fighter? No, that wasn't my, you know, bread and butter. I wasn't fighting in battles
every single day. But during the course of this conflict, I had to fight. And that was because I had to defend people that were around me. I had to
defend aid that was being delivered to, you know, oppressed people. And I'm not shy about saying that.
I mean, if I was a fighter, if that was my gig where I was fighting and I was a military commander, I would be very proud of that.
WARD (voice-over): We first met talks in 2016 in rebel-held Idlib province.
SHARIF: We need to look at what do the people really want. And if the people are Muslims -- this is not me saying it. If the people are Muslims
and they want some form of Islamic governance, then it's important that we help them to establish that.
[14:45:02]
WARD: Is that what they want?
SHARIF: In my opinion, that's what I believe.
WARD (voice-over): One year later, Tox was stripped of his British citizenship.
WARD: Why did the British government take away your passport?
SHARIF: That's the question that we all want to know the answer to.
WARD: What's the official reason that you've been given?
SHARIF: The official reason was aligned to a group that is aligned to al- Qaeda.
WARD (voice-over): Talks denies the charges, saying he has always maintained independence, while pointing out that the former leader of al-
Qaeda's affiliate in Syria, Ahmed al-Sharaa, is now the country's president.
WARD: Does it strike you as bizarre or maybe even unfair, surreal -- I don't know, you choose the word -- that President Al-Sharaa is leading the
country. He's meeting with Western leaders. And yet you are not even able to go back to your home because you had your passport taken away because
you were aligned with a group that was aligned with al-Qaeda, right? Like, I mean, that's a tenuous nebulous connection to --
SHARIF: Yes. Yes. It's guilty by association with a degree of separation.
WARD: And association with a man who is now the president of Syria. So --
SHARIF: Who had clear ties -- someone who had clear ties who was a part of al-Qaeda is now legitimate. Whereas people like myself are, you know, still
in limbo. Of course --
WARD: And you're not the only one. I mean, there's --
SHARIF: Yes, there's others. Of course, I think 100 percent -- it's 100 percent unfair, but this is the world we live in, right? I mean, look,
these are the -- these are the double standards and the hypocrisies of the West, right? You come out to help Syrians free themselves of oppression
from Bashar al-Assad. You're stateless. You go and fight in the IDF, be a part of an army that is being accused of genocide, of war crimes, and you
can come back to the U.K. You have no questioning, you have no issues at all, no inquest. Those are blatant double standards and they are problems.
WARD: With that in mind, we see now Syria moving closer to the West. What was your reaction when you saw President Shahaa and President Trump
meeting? And not just yours but like your community, let's say. The other muhajirin, the foreigners. And be honest.
SHARIF: Look, I think me as a muhajirin, I'm a bit of an anomaly. So, my position is way more nuanced. Look, I understand that this was a political
victory. It wasn't a -- it wasn't a military victory. So, concessions were going to have to be made. Obviously, where people are upset is when it
comes to the Israel-Palestine issue because obviously signing the Abraham Accords and stuff like that --
WARD: As Trump actually asked President al-Sharaa to do.
SHARIF: Yes. That is something that people are obviously very upset about. Not just muhajirin, I think most Syrians and most people in the -- in the -
- most people in the Arab world, you know, don't like the idea of that. The other thing that people are uncertain of is OK, are muhajirin going to be
given citizenship, etcetera. What's their status going to be?
WARD (voice-over): Syria has started absorbing thousands of foreign fighters into the army, but many others remain stateless. While some
hardliners grumble that the country is not moving in the right direction, Tox is more optimistic.
WARD: Driving around Damascus, there's billboards everywhere saying, "Thank you, President Trump."
SHARIF: Yes.
WARD: Lifting the sanctions, normalizing relations. Do you want to say thank you to President Trump?
SHARIF: Thank you, President Trump. I mean, look, look, I mean, it's politics, isn't it? It's politics, right? It's politics. Again, I'm not a
politician, so you know, I mean, Trump said he's going to bring peace to the Middle East. Let's hope that the Palestine issue can be solved. Syria
seems to be in a better place. And you know, if Trump had a hand in that and, you know, there's some good intention there, then you know what, then
that's a praiseworthy thing, right?
But at the end of the day politics is about power, right? And we'll see. Only time will tell. Only time will tell where Syria is going to go.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WARD (on camera): Now, Tox's views are actually pretty moderate in the context of some of the more hardline foreigners inside Syria. I spoke to
one Westerner there who said that he felt outraged and ashamed by President al-Sharaa's meeting with President Trump. We did of course reach out to the
U.K. Home Office as well to ask about Tox's case. They didn't give any specific details relating to him, but said simply, "Deprivation of
citizenship only happens after careful consideration of the facts and in accordance with international law and always comes with a right of appeal."
Clarissa Ward, CNN.
[14:50:05]
SOARES: And our thanks to Clarissa for that report.
And still to come tonight, wildfires are burning across the western United States as extreme heat as well as dry wind fuel the flames. We'll bring you
the very latest from the ground. That is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: Well, several major fires are burning across the western U.S. as a heat wave and dry gusty winds create very dangerous conditions. In
Colorado, the Lee and Elk fires -- the Lee and Elk fires threaten the small mountain town of Meeker, closing in from both sides.
In Northern California, the Gifford fire is on the verge of becoming the state's first mega fire of the year. And in Los Angeles, evacuations are
underway as a canyon fire spreads just north of the city with thousands under orders or warnings to leave.
Our Nick Watt has this.
NICK WATT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Isa, we are about 40 miles northwest of downtown Los Angeles. And firefighters have, we've just heard, managed to
get some kind of control over this wildfire that has been threatening lives and homes and structures in this area of Los Angeles County.
Overnight, firefighters were digging trenches, digging fire lines, trying to get a containment area around these flames, around these flames. We've
seen fixed-wing and helicopters dropping water on this fire. And we have just heard that they have it 25 percent contained which is great, great
news.
Of course, they are not out of the woods yet. The temperatures today are going to be very high again. The humidity is going to be very low again,
and we are going to get a little bit of wind. And in Southern California, dry brush, high temp, low humidity, throw in wind, then you have a real
problem. This is fire season here right now. There are multiple fires burning across Southern California, one up near Santa Barbara that's 150
square miles, but so far has kept in the backwoods in the scrubland in the -- in the hills, hasn't come in any way near residential areas yet.
And that is the aim of these firefighters to protect life, to protect property, to throw a line around these fires that erupt in the scrub land
and keep them in the scrub land, keep them from getting into towns.
About 400 firefighters on this fire right now. That other fire, there's like 3,000. Fire season really just beginning. And unless we get some rain,
it could be problematic. There is no rain in the immediate forecast and the forecast is for temperatures to stay high. Isa?
[14:55:15]
SOARES: Very worrying indeed. Thanks very much, Nick. Well, in Spain's Catalonia region, an unlikely line of defense is helping reduce the risk of
wildfires. You're hearing and seeing that correctly. A herd of about 300 goats moves from town to town grazing on dry brush and grass. Officials say
the pilot project creates natural fire brakes, one of several prevention efforts credited with reducing fires last year. That is despite the
region's worst drought in a century. Residents say it's a solution that is charming as it is effective.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TERESA RODRIGUEZ, MATARO RESIDENT (through translator): I think this is more natural, more beautiful. They go where men wouldn't go to clear the
area. And I don't know, it's nice.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: I'm more for more goats. That's great for the environment. That does it for us. Thanks very much for your company. Do stay right here.
"WHAT WE KNOW" with Max Foster is up next. Have a wonderful weekend.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
