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Isa Soares Tonight
Texas Moves Closer to Passing Redistricting Bill; California Republicans File Lawsuit to Halt Newsom; Trump Calls Major Changes in American Museums; White House Launches Own TikTok Account. Israel Approves Controversial Plan Dividing West Bank; Russia Warns of a "Path to Nowhere" in Ukraine Talks Without Russia Involvement; Dozens of Afghans Killed in Deadly Bus Crash. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired August 20, 2025 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00]
LYNDA KINKADE, HOST, ISA SOARES TONIGHT: A very warm welcome to the show, everyone, I'm Lynda Kinkade in for Isa Soares. Tonight, Israel approves a
controversial West Bank settlement plan that the Finance Minister says will bury the prospect of a Palestinian state. We're going to go live to
Jerusalem.
Plus, a path to nowhere. The Kremlin makes clear any conversation about Ukraine's security must involve Moscow. I'll speak with a former U.S.
National Security adviser, John Bolton about what happens next. And an MIT report questions how much money firms can actually make from artificial
intelligence, even as they invest billions of dollars into the technology. We'll have that and much more coming up.
We begin with breaking news out of Gaza. A military official says an operation to take over Gaza city has begun, and it is in its earliest
stages. We've just learned that Israel's Prime Minister has ordered a shorter timeline for that siege. The IDF says it will call up to 60,000
more reservists ahead of a full-scale assault.
Israel plans to force more than a million Palestinians in Gaza city to camps in the south, while it tries to root out Hamas. Israel has made it
clear it wants Palestinians to leave Gaza altogether, saying it's in talks with several countries to take them in. I want to bring in our
international diplomatic editor Nic Robertson who's covering all angles for us from Jerusalem.
First, if we can start, Nic, on that breaking news that this assault on Gaza city, for Israel to take control of the city is underway. What are you
hearing?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: These appear to be what the military term is shaping operations. The very sort of formative
steps on the ground before major military maneuvers would begin. That's what appears to be happening at the moment. But the drumbeat on how big
this is going to be the operation to take control of the heavily-populated Gaza city.
How big it will be and how quick it will be. The drumbeat on that is getting louder. The Prime Minister, as you say, wants the IDF to do this
more quickly. I mean, look, frankly, we haven't had a lot of insight into the details of the military operation. That sort of thing hasn't been made
public. So, how much shorter? What does shorter mean?
That isn't clear. Why would the Prime Minister want it shorter? That isn't clear. But the idea of calling up 60,000 additional reservists to bring the
full force, available for this Gaza city operation to 120,000, and to extend current reservists, another 20,000 current reservists on duty in and
around Gaza, or due to be in Gaza to extend their service as well, begins to create the impression that whatever was planned in Gaza is now getting
closer.
But again, I think what we're looking at is the early shaping operations rather than the massive military maneuvers. But of course, the IDF may show
a clearer hand once things begin. But what they've suffered today was actually a near deadly attack on one of their outposts in Khan Younis, an
outpost that had been there for some time.
Hamas, they say, were able to penetrate this outpost that one soldier, IDF soldier was seriously injured, a couple of others lightly injured. And they
say during that exchange of fire to take back control of the post, push out Hamas, at least, nine Hamas fighters were killed in that operation. So, the
battles clearly underway there.
KINKADE: And, Nic, I also want to ask you about the controversial development underway in the West Bank. I understand you visited that E1
Corridor today. We've also heard the criticism from so many now who say this sort of development will potentially bury the idea of a Palestinian
state. You were there on the ground. What were people telling you?
ROBERTSON: Yes, they really feel that way. The 3,400 additional homes that Israel settler homes that Israel wants to build in the E1 area just outside
of Jerusalem. This is something the government has long wanted to do. Prime Minister Netanyahu was talking about expanding this big one of the largest
settlements just outside of Jerusalem, Ma'ale Adumim, which overlooks this E1 area.
[14:05:00]
Twenty years ago, he was talking about expanding that settlement. But his Finance Minister, Bezalel Smotrich, who is a settler leader, has talked
about this settlement expansion into the E1 area, as something that he says will kill off the possibility of a Palestinian state. And what we found
today when we were there, we visited a tiny hill-top village of about 450 Bedouin farmers with their 3,000 sheep and goats.
They're expecting eviction from their homes as of right now. We visited the bustling streets of one of the nearby towns there. They're expecting
evictions. Notices have been served. We were told that by local officials, local Palestinian officials to 112 different properties and businesses on a
bustling highway.
And what Palestinians are telling us is that this expansion into area E1, will damage business there, essentially disconnect the north of the west,
occupied West Bank from the south of the occupied West Bank. Disconnect east Jerusalem from the rest of the West Bank. Remembering that Jerusalem
is what or where rather, Palestinians see as the capital of their future state.
So, by doing these geographical disconnections, by filling the area in essence, with Israeli settlers and diverting roads that Palestinians can
use, that they say will make their routes tortuously long and difficult. Undermines the viability of that Palestinian state. And this is -- this
appears to be what members of the Prime Minister's government are actually intending.
And that was what we found people telling us on the ground. They do feel that, and they have no idea what's coming. One Bedouin leader we talked to
said, look, I don't know what's going to happen. I don't know if we're going to get evicted tonight or tomorrow. We haven't been told where to go.
We have no idea what we'll do with our livestock, that's our livelihood. So, a huge amount of concern in that area.
KINKADE: Yes, no doubt. And this, of course, was this controversial plan decades in the making. Nic Robertson for us in Jerusalem, our thanks to
you. Well, I want to bring up another story we've got from our Oren Liebermann, who is in the region on Israel's plan to call up 60,000 more
reservists to take over Gaza city.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN JERUSALEM BUREAU CHIEF (voice-over): The drums of war are pounding Gaza city. A new Israeli military operation has been targeting
the largest city in the northern strip, one that will require a surge of reserve soldiers to go back to fight again.
Avshalom Zohar Sal is a reservist who documented his time in Gaza in these photographs. He says he spent more than 300 days in Gaza on four different
deployments. The last one ended one month ago. "I'm a little in shock that we're still in this thing", he says. "I'm a little in shock that we're
still talking about this war that was supposed to end a long time ago.
And I think if you were to ask everyone in my unit, it's hard for everyone." The doubts, he says, began creeping in one year ago, and they've
only grown. This month, Israel's security cabinet approved the occupation of Gaza city, a major escalation that could take five months or more. Zohar
Sal says he's not going back.
"I think this decision is a death sentence for the hostages", he says. "The government talked and said all the time that we're talking about two
missions for this war, to return the hostages and to defeat Hamas. Now, it's telling us there's only one goal, which i believe is not achievable to
destroy Hamas, and even this won't destroy Hamas".
Amid some of the largest protests Israel has seen since the beginning of the war, families of the hostages are calling the planned operation a
deception, an unforgivable moral and security neglect. A recent study of reserve soldiers suggested approximately 40 percent were slightly or
significantly less motivated to serve.
The military's top General, warned the security cabinet of the burden on manpower. An exhausted army in a war that won't end. Israel's military
relies on reservists to keep fighting, and the military said Wednesday that the takeover of Gaza city will require up to 60,000 more troops. Dan Halutz
is the former Israeli military Chief of Staff.
DAN HALUTZ, FORMER ISRAELI MILITARY CHIEF OF STAFF: I believe that some of them will stay home. When something is coming to an end, you feel it and it
comes to an end.
LIEBERMANN: Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu promised the intense fighting would be over by now.
BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, PRIME MINISTER, ISRAEL: Once we begin the Rafah operation, the intense phase of the fighting is weeks away from completion,
not months, weeks away from completion.
[14:10:00]
LIEBERMANN: That was February, 2024, 18 months later, Netanyahu says a new operation is the fastest way to end what has long since become Israel's
longest war.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KINKADE: Our thanks to Oren Liebermann there. Well, the Trump administration is escalating its fight against the International Criminal
Court. A short time ago, it said it was imposing sanctions on four more court officials involved in work related to alleged Israeli and U.S. war
crimes.
The ICC is strongly rejecting the new sanctions, claiming them, quote, "a flagrant attack against the independence of an impartial judicial
institution." Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is praising the Trump administration for that move. He calls penalizing the officials a
firm measure against what he says is a smear campaign against Israel and its military.
Well, despite the high stakes peace talks between the U.S., Russia, Ukraine and European leaders, more lives are being lost on the battlefield.
Ukrainian officials say the latest Russian attacks killed at least five civilians, three of them in the eastern Donetsk region. It comes as NATO
defense chiefs discuss security guarantees for Kyiv, a move that's now being slammed by the Kremlin for not including Russia at the table. Here's
what Russia's Foreign Minister had to say about today's talks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SERGEY LAVROV, FOREIGN MINISTER, RUSSIA (through translator): Now it is proposed to resolve security issues, collective security without the
Russian federation. This will not work. We've already explained more than once that Russia does not inflate its interests. We will firmly and harshly
ensure our legitimate interests.
I'm confident that in the West and above all, in the U.S., they understand perfectly well that seriously discussing security issues without the
Russian federation is a utopia and a path to nowhere.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KINKADE: With Ukraine's future hanging in the balance, it's unclear when or even if, Russia and Ukraine will hold direct talks. Ben Wedeman is
tracking all of this from eastern Ukraine.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (on camera): The prospect of an imminent Zelenskyy-Putin meeting seems to be fading with a
senior Russian official throwing cold water on White House claims Putin had agreed to one. Wednesday, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov didn't
explicitly reject the idea, only saying Russia is ready to raise the level of delegations.
Kremlin speak for perhaps, there will be a slightly more senior level of official participation in future negotiations, but certainly, not involving
the Russian President. President Zelenskyy has made it clear, he's ready for direct talks, but Putin has long called into question the legitimacy
not only of Zelenskyy as President, but also Ukraine as a sovereign state.
Putin is more than happy to stroll down the red carpet with the likes of President Donald Trump, but not the head of a state he has invaded. While
Monday, European leaders left Washington seemingly satisfied with the consensus they had reached with American officials on the broad outlines of
post-peace agreement security guarantees, Lavrov made it clear, there's no point in discussing those guarantees without direct Russian involvement.
And he accused European leaders of aggressively trying to change the position of President Trump after his friendly summit with Putin in Alaska.
All the while, the war goes on, Wednesday, the commander of the Ukrainian army toured the eastern front, reporting back that his troops remain on the
defensive as Russia pushes ahead with its Summer offensive. I'm Ben Wedeman, CNN, reporting from eastern Ukraine.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KINKADE: Well, the last two weeks have been an extraordinary moment in the history of this war. On August 8th, U.S. President Donald Trump announces
his Alaska summit with Russian President Vladimir Putin. That following Wednesday, Mr. Trump says there will be, quote, "very severe consequences"
for Russia if Mr. Putin doesn't agree to end the war in that meeting.
Then the Alaska summit happens and no deal is made. But the U.S. President still cites progress. And then after the Alaska summit, Mr. Trump pivots to
wanting a lasting peace deal rather than a ceasefire. And then on Monday, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy and European leaders join Mr. Trump
for talks at the White House.
On Tuesday, the U.S. says plans are underway for a meeting between the Russian and Ukrainian Presidents, and that U.S. ground troops won't go to
Ukraine as part of a peace deal. Well, Moscow refuses to commit to a Putin- Zelenskyy summit, but has not ruled out further talks. Well, my next guest is the former U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations and a former Trump
National Security adviser.
[14:15:00]
John Bolton joins us now live from Washington. Good to have you with us.
JOHN BOLTON, ATTORNEY & FORMER TRUMP NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Glad to be with you.
KINKADE: So, President Trump rolled out the red carpet for Vladimir Putin at the Alaska summit. This is for a man who is wanted for war crimes, a man
who's shunned by international leaders for invading a neighboring country. And I just want to bring up some vision from that summit as Mr. Putin
approached Donald Trump.
You could see the President, the U.S. President clapping. You've been a vocal critic of concessions to autocrats. Do you believe this approach
emboldens Putin?
BOLTON: Well, absolutely. And I think he basically achieved what he wanted to achieve in Alaska, which is to bring back the Donald-Vladimir
relationship so that Trump thinks he's his friend. He clearly must have put a lot of pressure on Trump in terms of territorial concessions. Those have
not been discussed much. It looks like in the meetings in Washington.
Chancellor Merz of Germany said afterward that territorial swaps didn't come up. They spent their time talking about security guarantees. I don't
think there's any evidence that the Russians have backed away from any of their positions, and I think they feel emboldened when they heard on
Sunday, Secretary of State, Marco Rubio say there were going to be no sanctions, no further sanctions applied on Russia.
While the prospect of talks continued because that would end the prospect of talks. It's a good argument, it's pressure that brought Russia to the
table, and to say there's not going to be any more pressure absent a total breakdown of the discussions is the free hand that Russia wants.
KINKADE: Ambassador, Trump is now pushing for a Putin-Zelenskyy summit, even if that happens, what's the risk of a bilateral meeting as opposed to
a trilateral with Trump at the table?
BOLTON: Well, I don't think anything will happen at a bilateral meeting. I think from the Russian side, Putin would give, you know, his version of the
last thousand years of Russia-Ukraine history. I suspect Zelenskyy can probably respond to that word-for-word. Neither one will make any
concession at that meeting.
I think it could end up just to be a waste of time, and really a dance to show who is the one who is obstructing peace. And they're both pretty good
at pointing the finger at the other person. I think Putin is not interested in speaking with Zelenskyy absent a lot of preparation. And indeed, I think
it's probably true that since no progress is going to be made, even if they met tomorrow, I'm not sure why we're still pushing on it.
If there's a serious desire to have a peace negotiation, a real one, is going to require preparation. It's not the style of Donald Trump. He likes
to meet first and let the munchkins work out the details later. But that's not something I think either Zelenskyy can risk or that Putin wants to do.
KINKADE: We certainly have heard from the Russian Foreign Minister, Sergey Lavrov, on state media in Russia, downplaying the prospects of a bilateral
meeting. You've known this man for a long time, and of course, Lavrov was someone that has been referring to Zelenskyy as that man or that character,
not even calling him by name. Given your history with Sergey Lavrov, how much influence does he have in the next steps here?
BOLTON: Well, I think he's primarily an implementer, but he's been around for a long time, and I think he completely shares Putin's view of how this
ought to work out. When I -- when I first met Lavrov, it was during the George H.W. Bush administration. I went to Moscow and they gave me briefing
papers on him.
This is before the collapse of the Soviet Union. But it said we assess that Lavrov is not a communist. We assess he is a czarist. And it was true then,
and it's true today.
KINKADE: And just quickly, you know, we've heard Trump float the conditions for Ukraine dropping NATO membership, giving up Crimea. From
your perspective, is that diplomacy or appeasement?
BOLTON: No, I think it's appeasement. I think you're just seeing the watermelon sliced in many ways -- no U.S. troops on the ground, no NATO
involvement in the security guarantees. Putin doesn't have to win every victory simultaneously if he can just keep slicing away. Ukraine is left in
a more and more difficult position, and that's all to Russia's advantage here.
KINKADE: And what would be the future of U.S. credibility if Ukraine is forced to give up territory?
[14:20:00]
BOLTON: Well, I think it would be a big mistake, and I think not just in the case of Ukraine, but others on Russia's periphery, threatened by
Putin's evident objective of recreating the Russian empire. And I think they're watching it all very closely in Beijing, and their targets in
Taiwan, the South China Sea, southeast Asia ought to be worried about it, too.
KINKADE: Yes, exactly. Former Ambassador John Bolton, always great to get your perspective. We appreciate your time. Thank you very much.
BOLTON: Well, thank you for having me.
KINKADE: Well, still to come tonight, a new U.S. travel ban is making it harder for American allies to escape the Taliban in Afghanistan. We'll have
a look at their struggle coming up. Plus, California's Democratic governor has vowed to fight fire with fire in the battle that could impact the
balance of power on Capitol Hill.
The new obstacle he's facing in his push to redraw his state's electoral map before the 2026 U.S. election. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KINKADE: Welcome back, I'm Lynda Kinkade. A devastating scene in western Afghanistan where at least 76 people, including 17 children were killed in
a fiery bus crash. The bus burst into flames on Tuesday after it collided with a motorcycle and a fuel truck while on its way to Kabul. All of the
victims were Afghans recently deported from Iran.
The crash comes as Iran intensifies the deportation of undocumented Afghan migrants. Well, it's now been four years since the Taliban retook power in
Afghanistan, and since 2021, many former U.S. allies have been stranded in the country. And now, a Trump administration travel ban has left fewer
opportunities to escape. Here's CNN's Isobel Yeung with more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ISOBEL YEUNG, CNN REPORTER (voice-over): Here in Afghanistan, the remnants of war are everywhere.
(EXPLOSION)
YEUNG: These guys are trying to clear this whole field of landmines that have been left by decades of war. Just got to watch where we're stepping
because anywhere beyond these red flags, there's still potentially contaminated and could have unexploded ordnance. De-miners work around the
clock.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There were three accidents, civilian accidents in this year happened in the past.
YEUNG (on camera): Oh, wow. And how often are civilian accidents happening in Afghanistan?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In monthly basis, we have witnessed that more than 110 people, most of them are children --
[14:25:00]
YEUNG: Wow --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Involved with the accident, unfortunately --
YEUNG: So, over a 100 civilian accidents every month?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Monthly basis, yes.
YEUNG: Wow, it must be dangerous work.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, this is the reality of Afghanistan.
YEUNG: This guy here has just found some sign of metal, so, they're digging a little further to try and find out whether that's a mine or not.
Very hot dangerous work up here.
(voice-over): Every week, the de-miners collect unexploded ordnance and explode them.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Three, two, one.
(EXPLOSION)
YEUNG: But invading countries have left more than just bombs in their wake here. Hundreds of thousands of Afghans worked with the U.S. government
during their 20-year war here. As translators, drivers, civil society workers and doctors. Following America's chaotic withdrawal under the Biden
administration in 2021, the U.S. set up a refugee program that would provide a path for Afghans to move to the U.S., a lightning rod for many
Republicans.
STEPHEN MILLER, DEPUTY CHIEF OF STAFF, WHITE HOUSE: The United States of America never, ever made a promise, written or unwritten, to the people of
Afghanistan that if after 20 years, they were unable to secure their own country, that we would take them to ours.
YEUNG: When Trump returned to power this year, he canceled refugee programs, dismantled the office dedicated to helping Afghans relocate, and
barred them from entering the U.S. altogether.
(on camera): We've been speaking to a lot of those individuals across the country, but sadly, because of security concerns most of them we're having
to speak to on the phone.
(voice-over): On paper, the U.S. says they are still processing cases for people who worked with the U.S. military directly, but many like this man
are stuck in Afghanistan living in fear. We've disguised his voice.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know that the Taliban is searching for me. I am hiding. If I come outside freely, if they find me, I'm confident that
they will imprison me, they will torture me, they will kill me. Donald Trump became U.S. President, he signed executive order and all our cases
stopped. We stood with the U.S. forces side-by-side for a long time, but now they banned us. Why? Where is the justice?
YEUNG (on camera): So, we've been in touch with one woman who has agreed to meet with us. She says that it's very risky that she risks running into
the Taliban, she risks traveling by herself and she's very scared. But she says it's worth it because she really needs to share her story. It's OK.
(voice-over): As a doctor, this woman worked for American charities. With recent U.S. aid cuts, she lost her job. She now feels that her relationship
with U.S. organizations has put her and her family's life in danger.
(on camera): You're clearly terrified. You came here, you're shaking.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, during that way -- I saw many Taliban, and I am very afraid -- from them.
YEUNG: What is it like as a woman living in Afghanistan right now?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The situation is very bad for the Afghan woman. And we don't -- I don't have any job going to the bazaar, not going to the
shopping. We can't. Everything -- just we are in the home and we are afraid from -- every second of the life we are spending is very dangerous.
YEUNG (voice-over): Her communication with the State Department has stopped. The last e-mail she got was in January, just days before Trump
returned to the White House.
(on camera): How did you feel when you saw the news that Trump was canceling these programs?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All the night we are crying. It was very difficult to accept like this.
YEUNG: You felt like this was your lifeline.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, it broke our heart.
YEUNG: President Trump has said that he needs to protect the borders, that he needs this America First policy to ensure that it's not dangerous, that
no one dangerous enters the U.S.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, I'm not -- agree with this. They broke his promise to Afghan women and Afghan girls.
YEUNG: What does it feel like?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're feeling bad because we trust on it, and we're working with them, thus 20 years. And they promised us to be -- we must be
moved from here to America.
YEUNG: What is your message to President Trump?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Please, start the cases again, and also, please support the Afghan girls or women because now, it was very difficult for
us. It was very dangerous, and I am not feeling safe in here.
YEUNG (voice-over): The U.S. State Department told us they're unable to comment on individual cases or internal operations of refugee processing,
and that the President is, quote, "committed to helping those who helped us", but that their first priority is always the safety and security of the
American people. Isobel Yeung, CNN, Afghanistan.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KINKADE: Still to come tonight, Texas Republicans say they're closing in on what could be a big win ahead of next year's midterm elections. But
California Democrats say not so fast.
Plus, President Trump calls for major changes at American museums. Why critics say he is trying to whitewash history.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KINKADE: Welcome back. I'm Lynda Kinkade. A power struggle may reach a boiling point today in two of the most populous U.S. states. It could tilt
the balance of power in Congress and ultimately decide the fate of President Trump's agenda. Texas House Republicans could vote today to
rewrite the state's electoral maps, a move that could net them as many as five new seats in the U.S. House, and that comes after a two-week protest
staged by Texas Democrats over the Trump-backed redistricting plan. And in California. Democrats led by Governor Gavin Newsom are trying to counteract
that move by redrawing their own map. Republicans are suing to try to block that.
CNN's Arlette Saenz signs is following all of this for us from the Texas capital of Austin. Good to see you Arlette. So, most people are asking why
politicians can even have the power to redraw maps in their favor. Just take us through what's happening in Texas on both sides of the aisle.
[14:35:00]
ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, these Texas House lawmakers have been in the house chamber for more than three hours, debating this
redistricting bill, which could net the GOP up to five U.S. house seats in the next midterm elections.
Now, typically these redistricting efforts happen after the 10-year census at the start of the decade. So, what is so rare about what is happening in
Texas is that this is mid-decade redistricting that Texas Governor, Greg Abbott has said is well within Republican's authority to do. But as these
lawmakers are debating in this on the House floor, there's little that Democrats can do to really stop this. They've really exhausted all of their
legislative tools to block this from going forward, and it is expected that in the coming hours there could be a first vote on this redistricting bill
in the House.
But what you're hearing from lawmakers right now is the debate and amendment process to this. Democrats have introduced many amendments and
have also argued that these congressional maps, which were drawn by Republicans will disempower Latino and black voters. Here was one tense
exchange between a Democrat and Republican lawmaker on the house floor today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STATE REP. BARBARA GERVIN-HAWKINS (D-TX): Representative Hunter, I do respect you tremendously and I respect this body, but what I don't respect
is an obvious racist move on what we are trying -- what you're attempting to do. But --
STATE REP. TODD HUNTER (R-TX): We disagree a hundred percent.
BARBARA GERVIN-HAWKINS: When you lose two African American leaning seats, then that tells you there is a race issue going on.
HUNTER: And Rucho (ph) gave the exact same argument about --
GERVIN-HAWKINS: Rucho, Bucho, Hucho --
HUNTER: What?
GERVIN-HAWKINS: -- would eliminate African American seats.
HUNTER: -- the U.S. Supreme Court, Representative. I don't think that's right. Let's not demean the process.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SAENZ: Now, at this point, it's not a matter of if, but when these congressional maps will pass. The House needs to have two votes to pass it
out of that chamber, and then it goes over to the Senate, which is set to reconvene tomorrow night. The Texas governor has said he hopes that this
will be the law towards the end of this week.
KINKADE: And of course, in California, Arlette, the governor there has proposed a sort of countermeasure to this. Just explain how unprecedented
it is and what impact it could have.
SAENZ: Well, that also is unprecedented. The California governor, Gavin Newsom, had said that he wanted to counteract the steps being taken by
Texas. So, Democrats drew up their own map, which could potentially net them five Democratic seats in the U.S. House in the next midterm elections.
Now, so far, in the California state legislator, these bills have passed out of the committee and it is expected that they will be voted on tomorrow
before being signed by the California governor. But the big difference between Texas and California is that California voters do actually have to
weigh in on this. They are -- Democrats are hoping to put on the ballot in November an initiative that would suspend rules the state constitution
which authorizes an independent redistricting committee. They want to lift those rules until the next census in 2030. But voters will have to decide
whether they want to do that, and in fact, allow these maps to move forward.
Republicans had vowed to wage legal campaigns and also launch messaging campaigns to try to convince voters not to do. So -- not to approve this.
So, while things are on the fast track in Texas, there's still big questions about whether California Democrats will be able to enact these
maps that they've drawn.
KINKADE: All right. CNN's Areltte Saenz for us. Good to have you on the story. Thank you. Well, U.S. President Trump is ramping up his attacks on
American museums, saying they're too focused on the negative aspects of history, including, quote, "how bad slavery was."
In an online post he accused the Smithsonian of being out of control and says he ordered a sweeping review of museums to rid them of what he calls
woke ideology. Well, minutes ago, the Trump official tasked with carrying out the plan told Fox News that there's been an overemphasis on slavery at
the Smithsonian. The administration's approach will be similar to the one it used towards colleges and universities. Critics, though accuse Mr. Trump
of trying to rewrite or erase history.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
IBRAM X. KENDRI, HISTORY PROFESSOR, HOWARD UNIVERSITY: The politics of the now, the politics, you know, of this moment has been to essentially defend
enslavers, has been to make it seem as if slavery wasn't that bad, to make it seem as if everyone was against slavery.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KINKADE: CNN's Kristen Holmes is following this story and joins us from the White House. Good to see you, Kristen. So, Trump says these museums in
D.C. are focusing too much on how bad slavery is. So, he's directed his attorneys to review the exhibitions. Just explain what they're hoping to
achieve.
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's been the big question. And one of the reasons why this remark about slavery
yesterday that President Trump posted on Truth Social was so jarring to so many people is because it spoke to a concern that you have heard really
around the country as to what exactly President Trump was going to do when it came to the Smithsonian Museums.
[14:40:00]
And by that, I mean, there was a fear that he was going to, quote/unquote, "whitewash history," to erase some of the bad things in American history
that still made America what it is today. In particular, trying to change history when it came to slavery. And then, you heard President Trump,
they're actually saying that that seemed to be one of the intentions.
Now, Lindsey Halligan, that's the attorney who was charged with this review of this Smithsonian, was asked specifically about this. Here's what she
said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LINDSEY HALLIGAN, SPECIAL ASSISTANT TO U.S. PRESIDENT: I think there -- the fact that we had our country was involved in slavery is awful. No one
thinks otherwise. But what I saw when I was going through the museums personally was an overemphasis on slavery. And I think there should be more
of an overemphasis on how far we've come since slavery.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Now, that certainly sounds as though they're looking into limiting the exhibits that the Smithsonian has on slavery, but still beyond that,
it's unclear as to what exactly this review will do. I know one of the things that we also heard from Halligan, she said that they were going to
look at the process behind picking the exhibits, who's involved in picking those exhibits? Does it get voted on? How -- what is the choice process to
get into one of these museums?
So, we'll see exactly where this goes. But certainly, there, I mean, one of the things she seems to be pretty much saying is that they're going to
limit some of these exhibits on slavery.
KINKADE: And of course, for viewers around the world who haven't been to the Smithsonian, this is 21 museums and of course the National Zoo that are
meant to operate independently. So, Kristen, just tell us what sort of reaction we're seeing from the museums about this sort of political
interference.
HOLMES: Well, yesterday, they didn't react at all. They've given the example -- they've given the response that they're going to obviously let
this review happen. In fact, we heard some officials yesterday saying that this was exactly what President Trump has been saying in the past. But I
will note that it went a little bit further yesterday, actually laying out that there was too much negativity around slavery in this Truth Social
post, that was far beyond what we had heard before.
And when it came to this issue of what President Trump viewed as woke, we didn't really have an idea. Even in the letter that went out about this
review, it talked about getting rid of bipartisanship -- or excuse me, a partisanship, of divisiveness, but it didn't say what exactly was there.
So, clearly, this did go further and giving some kind of insight into what President Trump is hoping to do.
KINKADE: All right. Kristen Holmes for us outside the White House, thanks so much. Well, President Trump is also looking to influence culture through
a new TikTok account. The White House has launched its own official account Tuesday, and it comes amid uncertainty about the app's future with the
deadline just weeks away for the parent company, ByteDance, to sell to a U.S. buyer or face of ban in the United States.
Well, Trump has repeatedly extended the deadline of a sale or ban law passed under former President Joe Biden and his administration over, of
course, those concerns that the company's Chinese ownership poses a national security risk.
Well, still to come tonight, a high-profile tech CEO is warning investors about A.I. We'll tell you what he's saying and the impact it's having on
the markets.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:45:00]
KINKADE: Welcome back. I'm Lynda Kinkade. The U.S. market is reacting to a new report finding that 95 percent of companies have not seen a return on
investment from GenAI. And controversial comments from tech CEO, Sam Altman, who says, we are in an A.I. bubble.
The OpenAI boss telling tech journalists that he believes investors are overly positive about A.I. development. He says, when bubbles happen, smart
people get overexcited about a kernel of truth, and he asked the question, are we in a phase where investors as a whole are overexcited about A.I.?
His answer, yes.
The potential of overvaluing A.I. is sending the markets down. Here's a live look at the NASDAQ, just down just under 1 percent there, as you can
see. Tech related stocks are leading that tumble with both the chipmaker NVIDIA and software developer Palantir also down.
Well, joining us now for more is CNN's Clare Duffy. Good to see you, Clare. So, this MIT report was fascinating and also quite sobering, the fact that
it found that 95 percent of companies that have poured some $30 to $40 billion into these GenAI systems have not seen a return on investment. Is
Sam Altman right? Are we in an A.I. bubble?
CLARE DUFFY, CNN TECH REPORTER: Lynda, I mean, really stark results from this study, especially because we keep hearing, including from leaders of
this industry, how every enterprise needs to have an A.I. strategy, needs to be adopting this technology. And yet, according to this study, only 5
percent of the companies that have rolled out A.I. pilot programs are actually seeing meaningful increases to their revenue.
And certainly, I do think that Sam Altman might have a point, given that we've seen so many A.I. startups raking in these huge valuations, often
with only two or three people, a handful of people running the companies before they even make a profit, they are raking in these huge valuations.
It's likely that not all of those will succeed.
But I also think it's worth noting in terms of this enterprise adoption, this study finds that often the problem is not the quality of the A.I.
model, but rather that companies don't yet really understand how to implement this new technology, how to update their processes to really make
the most of A.I.
KINKADE: Yes, it was interesting. One of the key findings of this report, Clare, was this learning gap in these A.I. gen systems where they weren't
improving, learning from mistakes, or adapting over time. Could that potentially ease some of the concerns from white collar workers who are
worried about losing their jobs to A.I.?
DUFFY: Yes. Again, I think this is sort of a reality check moment where we've heard a lot from Silicon Valley about how A.I. is growing
exponentially, advancing exponentially, and yet, I think what you're starting to see from this study and from what companies are saying about
their use of these systems is that this adoption and the development of A.I. is not actually going to be that linear.
Something that I long have just sort of personally thought watching this space is that we're going to see a lot of companies looking to outsource
some of their work to A.I., laying off workers, only to realize that computers can't necessarily do the job in the way that humans do, and maybe
having to bring some of those folks back. So, I won't be surprised if we do see a bit of a boomerang here as companies try to figure out what to do
with this technology.
KINKADE: So, just quickly, which sectors are hardest hit by the A.I. investment and its impact and which sectors are doing OK?
DUFFY: Yes. Something was really interesting from this study is that the financial sector, other highly regulated sectors have been trying to build
their own A.I. systems rather than licensing them from big A.I. companies, and that makes sense, right, because they have a lot of data and specific
regulations around how they need to protect that. But the study finds that those are the least successful in terms of business returns for the
companies.
[14:50:00]
In terms of where companies are seeing benefit from A.I. systems, it's not necessarily in laying off their own internal workers, but the study finds
that using A.I. to automate processes that were done by outsourced agencies or contractors, things that companies had already designated as sort of low
priority work and outsource that work, that work can be done by A.I. in a way that is starting to save these companies money.
KINKADE: All right. Clare Duffy for us in York, great to have you with us. Thank you. Well, still to come tonight, some churchgoers in one Swedish
town may be confused when they go there this Sunday, because the church is gone. Up next, why it's moving down the road.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KINKADE: One of Sweden's most historic buildings is on the final leg of its two-day move to a new home. The 113-year-old Kiruna Church was lifted
from its foundation early Tuesday for a five-kilometer journey down a winding road. It's often voted the most beautiful wooden structure in
Sweden, and it is one of the largest. CNN's Muhammad Darwish tells us about the church on the move and the town's residents.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SOFIA LAGERLOF MAATTA, CULTURE STRATEGIST, KIRUNA MUNICIPALITY: People have been walking past this area for hundreds of years, but tomorrow
morning when they wake up, it will be totally different. There will be no church at that spot anymore.
MUHAMMAD DARWISH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is how you move a century old church across an entire city.
MAATTA: It's like a gift of architecture and art. It's not like any other church you've seen.
DARWISH (voice-over): Located in Sweden's northernmost City of Kiruna, the church moved along a three-mile purpose-built route. Preparations for the
project started more than a year ago.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We widened the road down to the new place from approximately nine-meter up to 24 meters.
DARWISH (voice-over): The church had been lifted onto a specialized trailer and was moved at a speed of 0.3 to 0.6 miles an hour. The move is
part of a bigger project, to relocate the city after years of digging at the world's largest underground iron ore mine has destabilized the ground.
The transformation will see nearly 6,000 residents and a third of Kiruna's buildings relocated over the next two decades.
MAATTA: It is not an easier project moving one-third of a city to another place. It's affects a lot of people. It's affects us every day, like
sometimes one road is open, the next day it's not, and we're moving and we have to see places that we have grown up to and where we have memories be
gone away or destructed.
[14:55:00]
DARWISH (voice-over): When completed, Kiruna will stand as one of the largest urban relocations in modern history. A city reborn with its church
still at its center.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KINKADE: Well, pleasure reading has gone down 40 percent over the last 20 years, that's according to a new study published in the journal, Eye
Science. The report surveyed people in the U.S. about their reading habits, showing that it had declined over time. The steepest decline was among
African Americans, people in rural areas and those with lower income or educational levels.
But there is a surge in reading popularity for genre books like romance, fantasy, and mystery. A reading company editor tells CNN that strategies
for more reading is finding what you like and creating a community.
Well, thanks so much for joining us tonight. I'm Lynda Kinkade. Stay with CNN. "What We Know" with Max Foster is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:00:00]
END
