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Isa Soares Tonight
Protesters Hit The Streets In Israel Demanding An End To The War In Gaza; President Trump Fires U.S. Fed Governor; Taylor Swift And Travis Kelce Announce Engagement; Trump Says He Has Fired Fed Governor Lisa Cook; Trump Order Creates Specialized National Guard Crime Units; Trump Threatens to Send National Guard to Chicago. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired August 26, 2025 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00]
ISA SOARES, HOST, ISA SOARES TONIGHT: A very warm welcome to the show, everyone, I'm Isa Soares. Tonight, a day of struggle across Israel as
protesters demand the release of the hostages and an end to the war in Gaza. Will the public's anger have an impact, though? We are live in Tel
Aviv for you this hour.
Then U.S. President Donald Trump fires the governor of the Fed. But she's fighting back and refusing to resign. We'll have the latest on the
President's major escalation with the Central Bank. Plus, breaking news this hour. It is a love story. Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce are engaged.
Much more on the celebrity announcement of the year.
We begin, though, with what's been described as a day of struggle in Israel. A nationwide protests calling for a ceasefire in Gaza that would
return the remaining hostages. Protesters blocked the main highway, you can see there, connecting Tel Aviv and Jerusalem. And as you can see, plumes of
black smoke there filling the sky after tires were set on fire. Police say the roads reopened quickly, but the mass protests appear to be having an
impact. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AMI DROR, ISRAELI ANTI-GOVERNMENT PROTEST LEADER: And we're joined by blocking the highways, blocking the houses of the MPs and demanding
something very basic, the immediate end of the war, the release of all the hostages and the end of the atrocities in Gaza. Every poll in Israel shows
that 80 percent of Israelis want this.
And our goal is to convince our government that doesn't even answer to the Hamas proposal right now, and that's very tragic, especially for the
hostages, but also for our soldiers and for every person here in Israel and in Gaza.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: And while calls to end the fighting are increasing, they don't seem to be having much impact on the Israeli government. Sources say a security
cabinet meeting that was supposed to discuss Israel's plans to take over Gaza city ended with no major decisions, and there were no plans, by the
way, to consider a ceasefire proposal agreed to by Hamas, if you remember, last week.
Meanwhile, Israel is facing -- continuing to face global condemnation following two IDF strikes on southern Gaza's largest hospital on Monday
that killed at least 20 people, including five journalists. The IDF claims it fired on a camera being operated by Hamas, killing six, what they called
terrorists.
The U.N. Human Rights Office is calling for justice as well, and as well as accountability. Let's get more from CNN's Jerusalem Bureau chief Oren
Liebermann, who joins me now from Tel Aviv. And Oren, starting to see the crowds behind you continuing to pour in, a day of disruption.
Give us a sense of what you are hearing from many there taking part in this protest. I imagine for so many of these hostage families, must be
exhausted, frustrated and desperate.
OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN JERUSALEM BUREAU CHIEF: And determined, I would add, on top of that, Isa. This is not something that's going to go away any time
soon. And organizers say they will keep this up. Organizers say there were more than 130,000 people here, not the size of the protest we saw just a
couple of weeks ago, and they say there were more than 400,000, but this is still significant, especially on a Tuesday night.
The protest actually just wrapped up a short time ago with the Israeli national anthem. This is, Israelis effectively heading home. You can see
the Israeli flag, the yellow flags representing the hostages here, a demand here to end the war, sign the ceasefire deal and bring the hostages home
first in a phased deal, but then comprehensively.
And you can see just the crowds pouring out of Hostages Square. And this is after 14 hours of events pretty much that took place throughout the day. As
you pointed out, there were roads blocked this morning across the country. Major highways and intersections. Protesters in most cases sat down or lay
down on the road.
Some, or at least, in one case, actually sat down inside of a cage representing the hostages themselves. And some burned tires on the road to
block them, and we even saw that take place throughout the day. So, that gives you a sense of what they feel they need to do here to get the
government's attention, and of course, to keep the attention and the focus of the country on the hostages here.
I'm joined by Kobi Agus who came out to this protest. Kobi, step in here just and give me a sense. There's a weekly protest every Saturday night.
There are other protests across the country. Why did you feel the need to be here today?
[14:05:00]
KOBI AGUS, ISRAELI PROTESTER: Good question, we've been here for nearly two years now since October 7th, and the taking of the hostages, we've been
here almost every weekend, try to be here almost every weekend, but now it feels that the time is getting crucial more than ever. Time -- the time
factor for the hostages was always crucial for the hostages.
I believe being very naive that it will end a few weeks after the atrocities of October 7th, but I couldn't believe that we would still be
standing here almost two years after and still begging, praying and calling for the release of the hostages. And today we're here because the Israeli
cabinet, the security government is taking the sign we feel --
LIEBERMANN: And didn't even discuss the ceasefire plan on the table.
AGUS: Yes, it feels that it's not very urgent for them for many reasons, and we want to -- that our voice will be heard more and more. So, today,
many people went on to the streets and then many people came here today, me and friends and family came here today as well to give the hostages their
voice and their sound.
LIEBERMANN: What do you believe it will take for Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to end the war? Is it President Donald Trump? Is it more
protests? What will it take?
AGUS: Well, ironically, we look for Trump to save us. It shouldn't be this way because these are Israeli people, citizens and soldiers, who were
captured in a -- in this disaster which the government is responsible for. Of course, Hamas made all this atrocity, but the responsibility for
bringing them home is of Netanyahu and his government.
So, we look for Trump as well. But it seems that maybe even Trump himself has many other issues on his mind right now. So, maybe Trump will give the
final push for Netanyahu. But we feel that this government may be trying -- tries to do what's best for the survival of the government, rather than the
survival of the hostages, unfortunately.
LIEBERMANN: Kobi Agus, thank you, thank you for your time. I suspect we will see you out here many more times --
AGUS: Yes, sure --
LIEBERMANN: Over the course of --
AGUS: Sure --
LIEBERMANN: The coming weeks. And I think, Isa, that's a statement that's true of so many of the protesters we have spoken with that, that this isn't
a one-time event, even if it's a Tuesday night, which has been fairly rare. They are determined to keep coming out here until they see the results they
want. A ceasefire and the remaining hostages home.
SOARES: And we are seeing the organizers of the protest. They say just in Tel Aviv, about 300,000 demonstrators showed up for the main event, and
this is a weekday, of course, it's important, that speaks volumes. Oren Liebermann for us there in Tel Aviv, thank you, Oren. I want to welcome in
Dr. Rotem Sivan, who is the Co-founder of MomsUp23.
It's a group of thousands of parents of IDF soldiers who are calling for an end to the war. Doctor, I appreciate you being with us. We understand --
I'm hoping you heard our correspondent there in Tel Aviv. He was saying that the security cabinet meeting has ended and nothing as of yet has come
out of this. What do you think realistically will come out of this?
Because as you heard from our correspondent, the ceasefire proposal or proposal that, you know, Israel, that the Israeli government had signed up
to as recent as last month, wasn't even being discussed.
ROTEM SIVAN, PHYSICIAN: Well, unfortunately, I'm not surprised. This is what's happening for the last year-and-a-half. There were good proposal a
year ago from Saudi Arabia, and proposal will keep coming every time for ceasefires and bringing back all the hostages to us. And once again, we see
the government not discussing it and turning it down eventually.
Always in some excuse, and they always find an excuse to turn it down. So, I'm not surprised. And I think the only way to change it is to keep on
staying on the street. You know, the more people on the street and we need millions of them to come out. And this is what eventually I think will
change their mind or go to election, whichever comes first.
I must say that these numbers of 300,000 people today and 400 last week, it's huge numbers. You have to understand, it's like 10 million Americans
on the streets at once. This is what --
SOARES: So --
SIVAN: Counts in Israel --
[14:10:00]
SOARES: So, doc, let me ask you then, what you know, our Oren Liebermann was asking Kobi, the Israeli protester, because we saw protests over the
weekend, large protests over the weekend, we're seeing protests now, we had seen repeated protests throughout -- nationwide throughout Israel. We're
also hearing from some opposition leaders in fact, from Israel.
I'm just going to quote opposition leader Yair Lapid, who has said, "the fact that the cabinet convened today and the ministers didn't even discuss
the hostage deal was yet another moral stain on the October the 7th government. I say this unequivocally to the Israeli public, there is a deal
on the table. It is possible to bring the hostages home and to end the war."
So, let me put the same question Oren put to the -- to the guest that we had there. What do you think will take to end the war? Because so far,
these protests haven't yielded -- haven't moved Netanyahu at all.
SIVAN: Well, I can join his answer about Trump. President Trump, but I don't think we need to wait for President Trump. We need to keep on
protesting. And unfortunately, what we also see is more and more soldiers that are refusing to go. Now, this is something we don't want to happen,
something that is weakening us and the IDF.
But unfortunately, it does happen, and something that we said it might happen later on, and we see it now. So, I think it's part of the movement.
It's part of the change. More and more people in Israel understand we must stop it. And the more people that will come out and say that will probably
help. I think Netanyahu is worried about it.
We see his response every time there are more people on the streets, we see his response. We see how he's starting to talk about a deal, we saw it last
week when he promised the families of the hostages, there will be a deal, and then they canceled the protest. And then again, he went into fighting.
So, we see his response.
I think he's bothered by the millions, I have to say that we saw it in Europe, we saw it in Poland, when there were millions on the streets, they
stopped the changes in the laws. So, I do believe at the end, this is what will bring us the change. And it's happening. I was not -- today, I just
rode -- I was riding from Tel Aviv to the north to my house through all the junctions and the bridges, and to see the thousands of people coming out,
not only in Tel Aviv, but all over Israel, in the north of Israel.
I got pictures from all my friends. I live not far from the border with Lebanon, and you see people there that are suffering from a war with
Lebanon for years, and still -- and maybe because of that, we all understand that it must end in agreements. It must end in a deal that will
bring everyone back home.
SOARES: And, doctor, this expanded military offensive that Prime Minister Netanyahu wants to pursue in Gaza will require the military to bring in
60,000 more reserve troops. I know that there are some that have spoken to CNN who are declining military service. But can you give us a sense of what
are being -- what is being discussed, what conversations are being had between the young men and the one -- women who may be called up? What are
they telling you? Speak to the fears and their concerns right now.
SIVAN: Well, I can say I speak to my son and my friends around me to speak to their sons and daughters. And what we know that on one hand, they will
do everything to protect Israel. And they will stand whenever needed, but they feel this war is not protecting Israel. It's not for the safety of
Israel. It's for the safety of Netanyahu. And it's very difficult for them.
They will keep on going because this is, you know, it's a -- it's still a democracy and they still obey the law. But on the other hand, they are
tired, they're frustrated, they lost friends. We see a lot of wounded people in body and soul. A lot of them around us, all around us. And so,
they are very -- they're very tired, and they feel this war is not -- is not aiming for the goals it was meant to be.
It's not for the hostages' safety. It's not for Israel's safety. And it's only -- you know, one of them told us, I feel like they're using me as a
tool in their games, they're using me as a -- they're using our kids as human shields for their -- for the government. And it's a terrible feeling
--
SOARES: Yes --
SIVAN: For them. And we feel it -- I think in every house and every family in Israel.
SOARES: So, as a mother, doctor, what do you say then to -- if you hear that from your children, from young men, your son and so many others, what
advice do you give him?
SIVAN: Well, it's -- I try not to give advices to my son. You know, they're old -- they're old enough to decide for themselves. And they are -- you
know, they're smart and they think for themselves. I -- you know, personally, I give them any support they need. It's my son --
SOARES: Yes --
SIVAN: I will support him in every decision he will make. So, I leave him to make the decision. But we do see others around us, they ask their kids
not to go, and we see soldiers that decide not to go --
SOARES: Yes --
[14:15:00]
SIVAN: I think the reserve forces now are less than 50 percent of what they should be. So, it's huge numbers. And again, it's telling us -- and if
there was a real war, if there will be real danger for Israel, they will all stand up just like they did on the 7th of October.
So again, it's -- when they feel the government is using them, it's very difficult for them to go, but we all understand that we must have a strong
IDF. We don't have any other options, you know, here in the region. So, it's a very big --
SOARES: Yes --
SIVAN: Conflict.
SOARES: Doctor, really appreciate you taking the time to speak to us, thank you very much indeed. Speaking to us there live from --
SIVAN: I just want to add --
SOARES: Go ahead.
SIVAN: I just want to add just one little sentence. It's very important because you saw all the pictures from the streets. It's very important to
say that the people of Israel wants to end the war. The people of Israel is saying yes to the deal, is saying yes to the Qatari offer and to the Saudi
Arabia offers. And the government is not representing the people of Israel. It's very important for us to state that to the world. Thank you --
SOARES: Quite clearly, your voices are being heard loud and clear nationwide throughout Israel. Doctor, I appreciate you taking the time to
speak to us. Thank you very much indeed. We will, of course, stay across all the images coming out to us live from Israel, bring you any latest
developments on the show.
In the meantime, we have some other news to cover, and a switch of tone really. She said, yes. You're looking at pop star Taylor Swift, who is
engaged to her football player boyfriend, Travis Kelce. We have the latest on their love story, that's coming up. And the farthest thing from a love
story, we're looking to President Donald Trump's growing feud with the Federal Reserve. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: Well, it's a love story, baby, and she said yes. Taylor Swift has announced her engagement to football player Travis Kelce. The billionaire
singer and her fiance both made the announcement on their respective Instagram accounts. The caption reading, "your English teacher and your gym
teacher are getting married."
Swift and -- Swiftie and the Kansas City Chiefs star started dating in 2023. Travis Kelce famously discussed on his podcast, trying and failing to
give Swift his phone number during her Eras Tour stop in Kansas City, a first date apparently happened soon after that. Joining me now with more is
CNN's Lisa Respers France.
And Lisa, I mean, this is so exciting, whether you're a Swiftie or not, my goodness, happy news. A love story, we're so in need of this, right?
[14:20:00]
LISA RESPERS FRANCE, CNN REPORTER: Absolutely, we are, because we just love, and we love it for Taylor. And I have to say, because I love to say I
told you so. I told people that this was coming. I actually did a whole video for CNN saying, is this an Easter egg? Because we have never seen
Taylor announce an album sitting next to someone that she's involved in a relationship with before.
And so, this just very much felt like she was letting us know that this was her future husband. And so, this is her future husband, and the Swifties,
please have patience with them today because they are freaking out. Just so happy for her. Happy for him. I mean, she said this is literally what she
has written songs about her whole entire life, is finding this type of love that she has found with Travis Kelce. So, I just -- I love it for them. I
love it for them.
SOARES: And do you think the Kansas City Chiefs football fans are also celebrating?
FRANCE: Well, as I say, the Brads, Dads and Chads are going to have to get over it, because they have this issue with like, oh, when we have a
football game, we don't want to see a whole bunch of Taylor Swift. But they need to understand that this has brought a whole new fan base --
SOARES: Yes --
FRANCE: To football. Like Swifties were tuning in for the opportunity to get a glimpse of Taylor Swift, but at the same time, they were getting
sucked into the game. So, I will tell you who is thrilled, the NFL, because they have already posted those engagement photos.
So, I think the NFL is very happy, and I think football fans, they'll learn to deal with it because he's clearly happy. He's clearly a very happy man.
He said he's the luckiest man in the world. He just said that on the podcast appearance --
SOARES: And you know what? When you're happy, you'll perform even better on the field, right?
FRANCE: So true.
SOARES: So, they should be happy. Lisa, appreciate it, thank you very much indeed --
FRANCE: Thank you --
SOARES: Joining me now is senior music writer and chief music critic for "Variety", Chris Willman. Chris, I mean, as you heard there, Lisa Respers
France, saying that she kind of guesses what's happening, that when she announced the second album, did you see this coming?
CHRIS WILLMAN, SENIOR MUSIC WRITER & CHIEF MUSIC CRITIC FOR VARIETY: I think everybody saw this coming. You know, we watched that podcast where
they spent two hours side-by-side a couple of weeks ago, and it was just very charming the entire time is -- if you like either of them at all, just
the way they interacted.
And even the statement they made today about, you know, the high school gym and English teacher, they kind of played with that when they were together
where, you know, he would say he didn't -- he needed some concepts explained to him or he didn't understand some of the words she used or the
concept of numerology.
And she would say, no, honey, you understand it better than you think you do. And there was that whole kind of playful relationship where they really
seemed to support each other's strengths. So, I don't think anybody's too shocked by this. And she has talked about wanting to get married before,
not an interview so much as in her songs.
I mean, you know, she had a song called "Paper Rings", I'd marry you with paper rings back when she was with Joe Alwyn. And then when that
relationship was coming to an end, she wrote a song where she said, "I wouldn't marry me either". And it reflected the fact that she was publicly
admitting that she wanted to be married.
So, this is a -- you know, a culmination of that with the right person, with some people that, in retrospect, didn't really seem appropriate for
her.
SOARES: Look, they are really American royalty. Let's just put it this way. And I -- and I think for -- you know, I speak for myself. I am a Swiftie,
I'm very proud to be a Swiftie, a huge supporter of what she's achieved. But I also think that it's been wonderful to follow her relationship -- and
from the beginning, her breakups and also her beginning of her relationship with Travis Kelce.
And I think people will want to continue to see this from, you know, whatever party she's holding to wedding planning, I mean, this is going to
be the conversation now, isn't it, for months on end?
WILLMAN: It is. And I think the big question is how much of it she will share with the public. I mean, she certainly shared everything about her
whole life in songs, especially romantically. But it's always been a little bit coded, you know, with a level of deniability about whether it's really
her or not. But then she's gotten so public with Travis in, you know, a really flattering way.
And that's so different from her previous relationships with, you know, Joe Alwyn wants to remain a very private person. And Matty Healy ghosted her,
apparently, according to her lyrics, before their relationship ever went public. But here's two people who just are at the top of their fields, they
enjoy each other. They enjoy being in front of the public.
So, I don't know if this will be quite the royal wedding in terms of a parade and televised as much as -- as much as we would all want that, and
it would probably be the highest-rated broadcast of the last 25 years.
SOARES: Look, I think people -- I think Swifties will be disappointed if they're not, you know -- if this is not televised or if it's not shared on
social media because it does -- the way that she has that bond and that connection with the Swifties, with the fans, it's -- they feel like she's a
friend of theirs, right?
[14:25:00]
The other aspect of this --
WILLMAN: Yes --
SOARES: Chris, I find interesting is her music. Let's talk a bit about her music. She's got an album coming out. She announced this recently. A lot of
her music has been about heartbreak. How much do you think this was changed -- this will change now that she's found love?
WILLMAN: Yes, I mean, she kind of had one encounter with sharing positive love songs in the past --
SOARES: Yes --
WILLMAN: Around the time of reputation and lever, when she was feeling very upbeat about the beginning of the Joe Alwyn relationship. And so, there,
she does have a history of writing those kind of positive songs.
And -- but then, you know, her last album was more of a break-up album with one new song, so high school, that was kind of snuck in there the last
minute like a late breaking headline about her relationship with Travis, in which she talked about sort of -- you know, a sort of quarterback
homecoming queen analogy. So, will we get a whole album of that this time? I don't know. It will be interesting to see.
SOARES: Question for you. How much writing will you be doing on this?
WILLMAN: I have been on the Taylor Swift beat since 2006, so --
SOARES: Are you loving it?
WILLMAN: Probably thousands of pieces, thousands of --
SOARES: Yes, exactly. Thank you very much, Chris, appreciate it. Busy man indeed. We're going to take a short break, we'll be back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: Welcome back, everyone. For the first time ever, a U.S. President has fired the Federal Reserve Governor Lisa Cook, the first woman of color
to sit on the board, says Donald Trump doesn't have the authority to force her out, and she's refusing to go. Trump is citing unproven allegations of
mortgage fraud, and so far, Cook has not been charged.
[14:30:06]
The move, however, dramatically escalates the President's battle, which we have seen for months here with a Central Bank, which he has blamed for
taking too long to lower interest rates.
Richard Quest is here with me now. And, Richard, you are fuming. You and I have been speaking about this for months by the way. The consistent attacks
that we've seen are on the Federal Reserve, not cutting fast enough, the rhetoric against him, but this unprecedented. This is going -- this is
something I did not see coming. Just explain the gravity of what we are seeing here.
RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSINESS EDITOR-AT-LARGE AND CNN ANCHOR, QUEST MEANS BUSINESS: The Central Bank was set up with a whole raft of statues,
appointment terms for independence. So, that you don't get political interference. What Donald Trump has done, and he does have the right to
fire a Fed governor for cause.
SOARES: But there's no -- what's the cause here?
QUEST: Well, not only -- it hasn't been defined.
SOARES: Right.
QUEST: It hasn't been defined by the Supreme Court yet, as been, whether the cause has to be -- usually it means gross misconduct.
SOARES: Right.
QUEST: And usually, gross misconduct in your job, not outside your job. That's reputation.
SOARES: Which is what they arguing.
QUEST: And they're saying -- but here's where get -- here's where the whole thing we've just gone into Alice in Wonderland territory. Within the last
couple of hours, the U.S. treasury secretary, Scott Bessent, at the cabinet meeting said specifically, I think you've got the exact words, he said the
-- I've got it here.
SOARES: I've got it here. The Federal Reserve's independence comes from a political arrangement. In fact, I'll do one better. We have the sound.
Let's listen to it.\
QUEST: Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCOTT BESSENT, U.S. TREASURY SECRETARY: The Federal Reserve's independence comes from a political arrangement between itself and the American public.
Having the public's trust is the only thing that gives it credibility. And you, sir, are restoring trust to government.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: So, that is effectively saying, because you are restoring trust in government, therefore, what you do is by --
SOARES: Political -- a political arrangement.
QUEST: Let me tell you -- but -- hang on. There is no political arrangement of the -- Scott Bessent says, the independence come from a political
arrangement between itself and the American public. Now, the only thing that Scott Bessent should have been saying there is, Mr. President, the
Federal Reserve is independent, and under the independence, you are entitled to do what you've done because of court. But he didn't.
SOARES: And the fact that he didn't tells you what?
QUEST: Oh, it tells me that they're going for it. The credibility of the Federal Reserve is now starting to be picked away at like threads, like a
woolly sweater on a nail. It's starting to unravel because not only have you now got the treasury secretary refusing to say that --
SOARES: About its independence. Yes.
QUEST: You've got the president electing the weakest of possible cases, maybe no case at all to fire somebody. This going to end up in the Supreme
Court, and the Supreme Court is going to have to decide whether this for cause. Is this grave enough? And in the process of doing this whole
rigamarole and shenanigans, the Fed's credibility is questioned.
SOARES: What impact then do these comments, the actions by the president against the Fed have on investors looking to the United States --
QUEST: Well --
SOARES: -- and the U.S. economy? You have a shown in, what, an hour and a half or so. Give us a sense on what you've been hearing.
QUEST: In isolation. It's a curiosity that's a serious --
SOARES: Is that it?
QUEST: No, no. In isolation, it's serious. Taken with the firing of the BLS woman, who then you've put somebody in that job who's basically a yes man
for the president, taking that along with all the inspectors general that's gone, you are ending up with a government that is basically going to look
like a Banana Republic. You're going to end up with people put in place, not because they are qualified, but because they have only one test, which
is the test of fealty and loyalty to the president.
And today's shenanigans, Scott Bessent should be ashamed of himself for what he just said at the cabinet meeting, because the only words he should
have said are, Mr. President, you are entitled to do this, and the Fed is independent, and you have acted within the law, not this nonsense of the
Fed's independence comes from a political array, a political --
SOARES: Why -- a question for you. I know we're wrapping up.
QUEST: Yes.
SOARES: But where are the other voices within the Fed? Why are they not saying anything?
QUEST: Because they -- because it's not really up to the Fed anymore. This has now moved to the other side of the equation. The core question related
to that is, where's all the Republicans on the House -- on the Senate committees? Where all the former treasury secretaries, Republicans saying,
no? Where are all the critics saying, stop, this dangerous, you are playing with nitroglycerin when you play with the independence of the Fed? The
largest debt market in the world.
[14:35:00]
SOARES: Incredibly striking these comments from Scott Bessent. And, Richard, I know you'll have more on your show. Appreciate it.
QUEST: Thank you.
SOARES: Thank you very much. Well, we're going to stay in the U.S. and we're going to stay with President Trump because he says he wants to expand
the U.S. military's role in domestic law enforcement. The president signed, if you remember, we spoke about this on the show yesterday, an executive
order on Monday. And he calls for specialized National Guard units to deal with what he calls public order and other issues. Trump has suggested the
next target in his crime crackdowns could include Chicago and Baltimore. Both of those cities are governed, by the way, by Democrats. The president
is facing major pushback from Democratic leaders, including the governor of Illinois. Have a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. JB PRITZKER (D-IL): Instead, I say, Mr. President, do not come to Chicago. You are neither wanted here nor needed here. Your remarks about
this effort over the last several weeks have betrayed a continuing slip in your mental faculties and are not fit for the auspicious office that you
occupy. This not about fighting crime, this about Donald Trump searching for any justification to deploy the military in a blue city, in a blue
state, to try and intimidate his political rivals.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Let's bring in Kevin Liptak, who's tracking the story from the White House for us. And, Kevin, just put this into context for us, because
it seems the month of August has been very much law and order, but, you know, some may say rise of authoritarianism. And now, within the last few
minutes, that Donald Trump said that he will seek the death penalty in murder cases in Washington, D.C. Just talk us through just the latest
developments that we have been seen -- we've been seeing coming out of Washington.
KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yes, and I think what you're seeing is the president really trying to exert his control one over
Washington, D.C. but trying to use this city as sort of a testing ground for other parts of the country where he could potentially expand this
federalization of law enforcement.
You heard him talk yesterday about these specialized units within the National Guard, essentially rapid response units that would travel to
cities, most likely blue cities around the country, to what he says, quell civil disturbances.
Now, there is federal law in place that says that the U.S. military can't be deployed domestically. But what you see the president doing is trying to
find these workarounds to exert sort of his influence in places that are run by Democrats, and in his words, overrun with crime. Today, in the
cabinet meeting, he called Baltimore, the City in Maryland, a hellhole, saying that that could potentially be among the places where federal troops
go in to start exerting their influence.
Now, how this actually transpires isn't necessarily clear. We haven't gotten sort of the fine points of how these rapid response forces would
work, but certainly, the president very intent and replicating what he's doing in Washington and all of these other cities around the country.
Now, when it comes to the death penalty, Washington is a unique case, because federal prosecutors here try cases both in the D.C. Superior Court,
but also in federal courts. While Washington, D.C. as a city has actually banned the death penalty, but there's still a federal death penalty in
place. Listen to more of how the president sort of explained his thinking earlier today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: Anybody who murders something in the capital, capital punishment, capital, capital punishment. If somebody kills somebody
in the capital, Washington, D.C., we're going to be seeking the death penalty.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LIPTAK: Now, how this actually works, again, it's all in the details here. Not every murder in Washington, D.C. is a federal crime. And so, it remains
unclear about how the president would seek the death penalty for every murder that occurs in this city. The last federal capital punishment crime
hasn't been tried here in over two decades. Lawyers say that it would be very difficult to seat a jury in Washington, D.C. that would seek a death
penalty for a criminal defendant.
So, how that all happens I think is unclear, but certainly, what the president is trying to do is sort of exert his authority over this city in
ways that we've seen him really doing for the last several weeks. Really kind of testing the bounds of his executive power in the nation's capital.
SOARES: Kevin Liptak there for the very latest. Thank you, Kevin. Good to see you. And still to come tonight, how much executive power can the U.S.
president have? Recent examples of actions by Donald Trump have some questioning the future of American democracy. That is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:40:00]
SOARES: Sending the military to U.S. cities, trying to fire Federal Reserve governor, Richard and I were talking, and bringing in a tech millionaire to
cut waste, these are examples of what some have called an overreach of executive powers. While many supporters rally behind the president, some of
those against his policies called Donald Trump authoritarian. Illinois Governor JB Pritzker is among those going even further, calling him a
wannabe dictator. Here's what the president said on Monday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: When I have some slob like Pritzker criticizing us before we even go there, I made the statement that next should be Chicago, because as you all
know Chicago is a killing field right now. And they don't acknowledge it. And they say we don't need him. Freedom. Freedom. He's a dictator. He's a
dictator. A lot of people are saying maybe we like a dictator. I don't like a dictator. I'm not a dictator. I'm a man with great common sense, and I'm
a smart person.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Well, Steven Levitsky is a professor of government at Harvard University and the co-author of "How Democracies Die." He joins us from
Cambridge, Massachusetts. Steven, welcome to the show. Just in the last 24 hours and, what, 24 hours has been so far, we have seen the U.S. president
go after the Federal Reserve governor, Lisa Cook, which my colleague and I, Richard Quest, were discussing, which of course an independent institution
from the government. We have seen him sign executive orders, creating specialized units in the National Guard. We have seen him threatening to
send National Guard to Chicago.
You have spent years studying the breakdown of democracies. Is U.S. democracy in danger? Are we seeing authoritarian tendencies playing out in
the United States, Steven?
STEVEN LEVITSKY, CO-AUTHOR, "HOW DEMOCRACIES DIE": Good afternoon. I would say we're beyond either of those things. We're beyond democracy being in
danger. I wrote a book eight years ago saying U.S. democracy was in danger. We are beyond authoritarian tendencies. The United States has unambiguously
crossed the line into some form of authoritarianism.
What Donald Trump has done in terms of repeatedly violating the law, violating the constitution, and using the state, a weaponized state to
punish critics, punish opponents, and threaten and bully the media, civil society, universities, that has been more aggressive. It's been more far
reaching than the first year of Hugo Chavez in Venezuela, than the first year of Erdogan in Turkey, than the first year of Orban in Hungary. So, if
that's not authoritarianism, hard to say what is.
[14:45:00]
SOARES: So, how -- it begs the question then, how is he getting away with it? Because in one of your New York Times pieces, which I read today, you
say Americans are living under a new regime. The question now is whether we allow it to take root. So, far, American society's response to this
authoritarian offensive has been underwhelming alarmingly so. Why do you think that is? Why is society not fighting back?
LEVITSKY: So, there's your answer. The re the reason why Trump's getting away with it is that American society, particularly the most powerful
members of American society, there are many, many Americans who were very worried, who are turning up to town halls, who are joining rallies, who are
mobilizing against this authoritarian term, but our most powerful institutions, the civil society, business, the media, universities, labor
unions, religious institutions, have been remarkably quiet, politicians too.
And I'm still trying to figure out why this a big puzzle for all of us. But let me give one possible answer, and that is, unlike many other democracies
in the world, unlike Spain or Germany, or Italy, or Argentina, or Brazil, or South Korea, or Chile, we have never lost a democracy. Americans -- most
Americans have never experienced living under authoritarian rule, and we don't know what it's like. And most Americans continue to clinging to this
notion of American exceptionalism through which something in the water or the air or maybe the constitution or maybe the culture makes us immune to
authoritarianism. Most Americans to this day, very smart, educated Americans still do not really believe it can happen here, and that frankly
is killing us.
SOARES: Exceptionalism part, which is something I've heard repeatedly, even from a Nobel Prize -- Nobel Peace Prize winner just in the last six months
or so. But we play that little clip, I'm sure you heard there, Steven, of President Trump, you know, denying that he wants to be a dictator. But he
also said yesterday, a lot of people are saying maybe we like a dictator. And the reason I bring this up is because earlier this year, and you
probably know this, a Pew Research Center poll showed 59 percent of Republicans and the Republican leaning independents agreed that many of the
country's problems could be better solved if, quote, "Donald Trump didn't have to worry so much about the Congress and the courts."
I mean, it probably ties into the previous comment you made. How -- do these comments resonate with some of the research you have done and what
you've been hearing as you try to wrap your head around this?
LEVITSKY: Yes. I mean, first of all, it's important to note that 59 percent of Republicans is a lot of people and it is creating -- it's turning the
Republican Party into a very, very problematic institution, one that's threatening our democracy. But 59 percent of Republicans is nowhere near a
majority of America. A majority of Americans, a solid majority of Americans still support democratic rights and democratic institutions.
One big reason why Republicans have been creeping -- Republican rank and file are creeping in an increasingly authoritarian direction is that almost
nobody among the Republican leadership will tell them the truth, will -- nobody, no Republican leaders will tell their followers, no, this not OK.
No, the Constitution doesn't allow this. No, authoritarianism wouldn't be good for this country. They've shut up. They've shut up now for six or
seven years. And anybody who has spoken out in defense of democracy and the Constitution, people like Liz Cheney, Adam Kinzinger, they've been run out
of the party. So, the one reasons why so many Republicans now believe in some form of authoritarianism is that none of their leaders will tell them
the truth.
SOARES: And finally, I know you've spent 20 plus years studying democracy and the death of democracies, not just in Latin America, but in Europe too.
Just what can we learn from history here?
LEVITSKY: One thing we can learn from history is that our leaders, and I think back to Germany and Italy in the interwar period, is that when our
leaders abdicate, when they don't stand up and defend democratic institutions and democratic rights, they effectively surrender power to an
authoritarian government, and that can very quickly accelerate and collapse into dictatorship.
Donald Trump is much more emboldened today than he was six months ago. And he is because we as a society -- and again, mostly our leaders have let him
do it, our court, our Supreme Court, the Republican Party and business, media, universities, civil society. We have to stand up and defend our
institutions if we want to keep them.
SOARES: Plenty of food for thought there from Steven. Steven, really appreciate you coming on the show. Alarming indeed. Thank you very much
indeed.
[14:50:00]
And still to come tonight, season two of "With Love, Meghan" has dropped on Netflix. We'll talk with our Royal Correspondent Max Foster about it and
the personal revelations from the Duchess of Sussex. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: Well, Meghan, the Duchess of Sussex, is kicking off season two of her Netflix show. It's called "With Love, Meghan."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MEGHAN MARKLE, DUCHESS OF SUSSEX: I love the idea of spending time together and finding new ways to show people you care.
Look at that. Oh, my gosh, I could do this every day.
Let's get creative and learn something new.
Nice and done.
I don't know what's happening.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: The new season just dropped with a new round of friends, as you hear there, and celebrity guests. The duchess also reveals some personal
details of her life and romance with Prince Harry. She says it was a prince who said, I love you first. I love that.
Our Royal Correspondent Max Foster joins me now.
MAX FOSTER, CNN ROYAL CORRESPONDENT: In Botswana apparently.
SOARES: In Botswana? What a beautiful place to say it. What the review's been like.
FOSTER: You went straight to it.
SOARES: I went straight to it. Because I kind of want to know, because I remember the first time we saw it, there were a lot -- there's a lot of
criticism. What has been like this time around?
FOSTER: Well, there is. And you know, you shouldn't always lean too much on what critics say, right? Because it's not what the populous think
necessarily. I Googled it on the way down to the studio, if I'm honest. The first one that came up was from The Guardian, came out this afternoon, it's
so boring, so contrived, so effortlessly whimsical that, do you know what, in the end, it does become almost fascinating.
SOARES: But what were people expecting? They're not going -- it's really a little slither of, you know, life with the duchess and with Harry.
FOSTER: There is -- yes.
SOARES: It's not a cooking show. You're not there to learn how to cook. It's --
FOSTER: There's definitely an element of fantasy to it. You know, she talks about how she likes to braise and spend a long-time cooking, four hours
cooking, and she uses lavender in sort of mysterious ways, and it's all kind of an experience. So, you do sort of get lost in it because it's so
unrelatable. I think maybe people are expecting it to be relatable. I'm not sure she's necessarily wanting it to be relatable. It's some sort of
escapism. And I think she's also trying to explain herself a bit. So, you know, in the last series she talked about her family name being Sussex,
which got lots of headlines.
SOARES: Yes, yes.
[14:55:00]
FOSTER: But she explained that, saying that's our family name. And then she talks about, you know, cooking breakfast and she does that for the family.
It's the one moment of calm before the day. So, people are very judgmental about her because it's unrelatable. But then, over time, I've started to
question whether or not she actually wants to be relatable.
SOARES: Yes.
FOSTER: She's actually giving people something to escape maybe. I don't --
SOARES: And people still watch, people still go and watch.
FOSTER: Yes.
SOARES: Regardless, right, whether they like her, whether it's not related, people want to get a sense of what life is like.
FOSTER: She's one of those people, I think, don't you think, that people either love to love or love to hate?
SOARES: Yes, indeed. You've already made up your mind.
FOSTER: But she's very --
SOARES: Yes.
FOSTER: Yes. So, then they end up watching it.
SOARES: I'm a big supporter. I've got nothing against her. Good on her. And if she can cook for hours, I love -- I wish I could spend more time cooking
with lavender, but hey, I don't have time.
FOSTER: But it's a privilege you get, isn't it?
SOARES: It is a privilege, indeed.
FOSTER: Four hours on my dish.
SOARES: Thanks very much, Max Foster. And before we leave you, I want to say a very happy birthday to one of our directors, Paul Manzi, who is
hiding. I think we've got a shot of him at the back.
FOSTER: He's very bashful.
SOARES: His birthday has been somewhat overshadowed by Travis.
FOSTER: Yes.
SOARES: Of course and Taylor Swift. But, you know, we'll remember this moment forever. Happy Birthday, Paul.
FOSTER: He's smiling. He's smiler.
SOARES: We don't have a shot of him because he's the one that is moving, that's operating the camera. He's very talented though. Can you see? Happy
Birthday, Paul. Thanks very much for watching. "What We Know" with Max Foster is up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:00:00]
END
