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Isa Soares Tonight
Russia And Ukraine Trade Strikes As Ukraine And The U.S. Head Back To The Negotiating Table; Gaza City Declared A "Combat Zone" As Israel Recovers 2 Bodies From Hamas; U.S.-Venezuela Tensions Rise As Warships Arrive In Southern Caribbean; Latin American Countries Takes Sides Amid U.S.-Venezuela Dispute; Thailand's Prime Minister Removed From Office; Modi, Putin, Xi To Meet In China Amid U.S. Pressure; Scientists Seek To Save Northern White Rhino Using IVF. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired August 29, 2025 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00]
ISA SOARES, HOST, ISA SOARES TONIGHT: A very warm welcome to the show, everyone, I'm Isa Soares. Tonight, Russia and Ukraine trade strikes as
Ukraine and the U.S. head back to the negotiating table. We'll get the view from Kyiv. And Gaza city declared a dangerous combat zone, and the IDF
striking the city hard and heavy.
This as Israel recovers the remains of two more October the 7th hostages. Plus, the U.S. and Venezuela trade barbs as U.S. Naval ships sit off the
coast and Latin American nations sit divided. We'll have the very latest for you. We begin, though, with the fading path to two -- to peace really,
in two separate wars.
Diplomacy seemingly at a standstill for both Ukraine and Gaza talks. Israel appears to be pushing forward with its plans on Gaza city, declaring it a
quote, "dangerous combat zone". Meanwhile, Ukrainian delegates are meeting with U.S. special envoy Steve Witkoff in New York. The Ukrainian
President's chief of staff says he wants to, quote, "push forward real diplomacy with the U.S."
And this comes as the death toll is rising in Kyiv, following Russia's second largest aerial attack since the war began. Officials say the massive
missile, as well as drone bombardment, killed at least 25 people, and that includes, by the way, four children. The Ukrainian President calling it an
absolutely vile strike that shows Putin's intentions, referring there to the Russian leader, of course.
We are also hearing that Ukraine has destroyed two key bridges inside Russia, using Moscow's own mines and drones. The Ukrainian military says
the bridges are near the border with the country's Kharkiv region. And it all comes exactly, if you remember, two weeks after U.S. President Donald
Trump held that summit, we're seeing there with Vladimir Putin in Alaska. Our Jennifer Hansler takes a closer look at the stalled peace efforts.
JENNIFER HANSLER, CNN STATE DEPARTMENT REPORTER: Well, Isa, this meeting in New York earlier today really seemed to be an opportunity for Ukraine to
level set with special envoy Steve Witkoff. They wanted to brief him on the latest Russian crimes, including that massive missile and drone strike on
Kyiv yesterday. And they also wanted to coordinate efforts on the attempts to reach a peace agreement for the war in Ukraine.
Now, Andrii Yermak, who was the top Ukrainian official at that meeting said in a readout that they told Witkoff that Russia is failing to fulfill
anything necessary to end the war and is clearly dragging out the hostilities.
And a source told me earlier this week that, that was one of the main focuses that they expected of this meeting for Ukraine to drive home the
point that they are willing to play ball and be an active participant in these efforts to reach a peace deal, something that President Trump has
voiced is a key priority for him, and that it is Russia that is failing to actively engage in these efforts.
And of course, this is coming as we continue to hear publicly from U.S. officials about how this is -- both sides are to blame here. They are
almost putting them on equal footing. We heard from Steve Witkoff earlier this week in an interview on "Fox", saying that Putin had been engaging in
a good faith effort in their meeting between Trump and Putin in Alaska a couple of weeks ago.
We heard from Karoline Leavitt at the White House just yesterday, pointing to the drone strike in Kyiv, but also saying Ukraine had hit Russian oil
facilities. And that, quote, "perhaps both sides of this war were not ready to end it themselves". So, the Ukrainians are trying to drive home that
point, that they are ready to do what it takes, and Moscow is not playing ball here. Isa?
SOARES: Thanks very much, Jen, really appreciate it. Well, my next guest is the former deputy Defense Minister of Ukraine, who now serves as the deputy
Chair of the Center for Defense Strategies. Alina Frolova joins me now from Kyiv. Alina, great to have you back on the show. Let me start then, first
of all, with this meeting in New York, as our correspondent was saying with the U.S. envoy Steve Witkoff. What are you realistically -- what should we
realistically see come out of this? What can we expect?
ALINA FROLOVA, DEPUTY CHAIR, CENTER FOR DEFENSE STRATEGIES: Well, for the last -- all the -- all the time when we -- this like a peace talks starts
to be on our table, we actually have no progress.
[14:05:00]
And no one in Ukraine expects something from these meetings. I think this is more like about the informational activity, informational influence, but
nothing serious is happening there. What can influence and what's going on, on the ground?
SOARES: What then are we -- you know, pushing ahead? What are we likely to see? Because European leaders, as you probably have heard, you know,
reacting to this truly senseless attack in Kyiv. And I'll get your take on that in just a moment. They have been saying that Putin is undermining
peace talks. Where are we on this potential meeting between Putin and Zelenskyy? Will it go ahead, or was it never in Putin's intentions to go
ahead with this?
FROLOVA: Actually, through the -- like a voice of Lavrov, they already clearly said that they are not ready to make this meeting. And it was clear
for Ukrainians from the very beginning that there would be no meeting, and there is no intention from Russian side to go on some peace talks,
ceasefire talks, whatever it happens.
So, I think that situation will not change on diplomatic level, let's say so, or political level, the only influence we can make on Russia to stop
the war, this is the military actions unfortunately for Ukraine.
SOARES: Yes, look, we've heard today, Alina, from President Macron as you know him and Chancellor Merz have been meeting for the last couple of days.
I want to play a little clip of what we heard from President Macron on Ukraine. Let's have a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
EMMANUEL MACRON, PRESIDENT, FRANCE (through translator): At the end of the long meeting we had together a few weeks ago in Washington, the call
resulted in this proposal from President Putin to President Trump. I'm going to see President Zelenskyy. If that's not met by Monday, the deadline
that had been set by President Trump, I believe that once again, it will mean that President Putin has played President Trump.
I think that's not a good thing. It's not a good thing for all of us. And so, it can't go unanswered.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Do you agree with that, Alina, has President Putin played President Trump again?
FROLOVA: Yes, I do believe that, I agree with that. And this is not the first time, and we all hope that at one moment President Trump will
understand that he is -- well, but it doesn't look like that right now, and that's unfortunate.
SOARES: So, then looking ahead to Monday, how then are we likely to see President Trump react? Because there was talk, of course, of more pressure,
more sanctions, secondary sanctions. Are you likely -- do you think we're likely to see that? Because I know European leaders are already talking
about additional sanctions here.
FROLOVA: I think we'll hear about next week's, which we hear already half a year, about one day, two weeks, two weeks, again, two weeks and some other
dates. So, I think that we'll see the next deadline. And unfortunately again, I don't feel that Trump administration is ready to go like a
straightforward, evaluating the actions of the Russia and Ukraine in that side.
SOARES: So, let me push you on that. I mean, what are you hearing then, from your contacts? Well, it seem the Europeans, at least, from what we've
heard so far and this week, they're trying to, Alina, to maintain the sense of momentum, right? Trying to keep President Trump focused on this. What is
your sense?
What are you hearing from your -- from your contacts there in Kyiv as to how President Trump will move, how much pressure or real pressure, if any,
he will put on President Putin here?
FROLOVA: Well, the good side of the story is that the Europeans now are on the top level, are absolutely sure that this is war against the whole
Europe, that they need to protect themselves together with Ukraine, and Ukraine is part of their defensive or protecting strategy, let's say so.
And they try to do as much as possible to assist Ukraine and to also to influence President Trump or to bring to his attention the real situation
on the ground. However, we see that the mood in American administration is changing like a few times per day, and it highly depends from the people
around President Trump, unfortunately, not from the like -- some kind of analysts and experts who can advise on the policies. So, the situation is
quite unpredictable, but frankly saying, I do not expect any strong sanctions on the -- Monday, which is coming --
SOARES: Yes, hope you don't mind me saying, but you sound pretty defeated, Alina. It sounds -- I know we had a conversation many times, and it's --
we've been here so many times, right? In terms of negotiations and discussions and deadlines, and the need unfortunately hasn't moved at all.
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You are also on the ground. We've seen this horrific attack, this senseless attack just the last 24 hours. Can you just speak to just what you're going
through? Family, friends, what that has been like, the intensity, of course, that we have seen just in the last few weeks as we see diplomacy,
but trying to push on diplomacy, but Putin playing a different card here.
FROLOVA: Let's see on real actions. I think that we -- too much discuss about diplomacy, which is not happening actually --
SOARES: Yes --
FROLOVA: Because the real actions on the absent. Yes, I do have half of my family on -- in Armed Forces, and yes, I had a lot of friends who have been
killed in action or were wounded or still on their service. And I think that Ukraine can rely on ourselves, and we will do our job. It's good to
have the alliance.
It's good to have a partner, so, we're happy to have the Europeans who stand -- standing strong behind us for now on. We would be happy to bring
back Americans on.
SOARES: Yes, sending much strength, Alina --
FROLOVA: Fine, but we're now on -- I --
SOARES: Go ahead, your --
FROLOVA: Yes --
SOARES: Video froze. Just finish your thought.
FROLOVA: Yes, so, that side -- what I'm trying to say is that we will be happy to bring Americans back on active support of Ukraine, and I think --
SOARES: Yes --
FROLOVA: That would be a time when we will see it. But for now on, we see no practical implications of the actions which Trump administration is
making on these, like peace talks.
SOARES: Yes, Alina, really appreciate you taking the time to speak to us, sending you much strength to you and your family. Thank you very much
indeed. Now, we're going to turn our attention to Gaza. Israel's calling Gaza city a dangerous combat zone that's ahead of its planned major
assault.
As you know, the Israeli military is already -- seems ramping up its attacks. This video from social media shows explosions on the outskirts of
Gaza city. Israel is also suspending humanitarian pauses in fighting, which were a way, of course, to bring in aid. And this comes as Israel says it's
recovered two deceased hostages.
There are now 48 hostages remaining in Gaza, 20 of them are believed to be alive. I want to bring in CNN's Jeremy Diamond, who is in Tel Aviv. So,
Jeremy, let me start on those two hostages. I mean, truly heartbreak and closure at the same time for these two families. What do we know about
these two men and the bodies that have been recovered?
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Well, so far, only one of those bodies has been publicly identified by the Israeli military. The
other is still undergoing forensic examination, but it seems they have at least some indication of who that hostage is, because they said that
they've informed the family.
But the hostage whose body was recovered that we do know of, his name is Ilan Weiss. He was 56 years old, lived in Kibbutz Be'eri, which is, of
course, one of the hardest hit Kibbutzs from Hamas' October 7th attack. He was actually killed on October 7th and his body taken into Gaza, held as a
bargaining chip until now.
But because the Israeli military has now recovered his body and returned it to Israel, his family will at least have some closure now and a proper
burial for Ilan Weiss.
SOARES: In the meantime, we are -- as we were saying, the IDF is preparing for what it calls the upcoming kind of stages of the war, declaring Gaza
city a dangerous combat zone. Just give us a sense of -- from your contacts on the ground of what we understand is happening right now, and what this
means more importantly, for all those people that probably have to move yet again and may not know when they're going to get their next meal.
DIAMOND: Well, there's no question, Isa, that there has been an intensification of Israeli bombardment as well as artillery strikes inside
of Gaza city itself. What we have yet to see is the movement of Israeli ground troops into the city centers. For now, Israeli troops seem to be
positioning themselves around the city, north of the city in Jabalya to the -- on the southern outskirts in the neighborhood of Zaytun.
That's where they have been operating in recent days and weeks. But where these airstrikes and these artillery strikes are happening, for example, in
the northern neighborhood of Tuffah, where we saw several very large plumes of smoke, consistent with, you know, a series of bombardments in that area.
All of this seems to be laying the groundwork for that eventual ground operation, a military invasion of Gaza city. And, of course, the
consequences of that will not only be in the people who are killed from the bombardment and from the eventual movement of ground troops in that city,
but also, of course, of the humanitarian effects that this will have. The forced displacement of nearly 1 million people expected, as Israel vows
that this evacuation of Gaza city is, quote-unquote, "inevitable".
[14:15:00]
We've now seen them declare Gaza city a dangerous combat zone, ending those tactical pauses of ten hours per day in Gaza city, which were meant to
allow for the flow and the distribution of humanitarian aid in that area. And of course, Gaza city is already that zone that has been declared a
famine by global food experts and the United Nations.
And so, you can just imagine the kind of domino effect that is likely to follow here. The Israeli government insists that it is planning to carry
out this offensive in Gaza city, calling it a Hamas stronghold. But of course, major questions remain, including among the Israeli public about
what the true intentions are of this government, whether the goal of destroying Hamas altogether is actually achievable, and whether or not,
political objectives of the Israeli Prime Minister are in fact truly the cause of what is happening here.
SOARES: Yes --
DIAMOND: Isa --
SOARES: And we saw how many in the Israeli society were felt just last week where those large protests that we were covering. Thank you very much,
Jeremy, appreciate it. Well, in response to Israel's escalating military strikes -- actions, I should say in Gaza, the British government has banned
Israeli officials from attending a major arms expo in London that's happening next month -- due to happen next month, I should say.
The bi-annual event brings together representatives from governments as well as defense companies from around the world in the U.K. capital for
four days. Israel's Defense Ministry has slammed the decision, calling it a deliberate and regrettable act of discrimination. Despite the ban on
officials, private Israeli arms companies will still be allowed to attend.
And still to come tonight, the fate of the Federal Reserve Governor Lisa Cook remains very much up in the air. What happened in an emergency hearing
today as she sues to block Donald Trump from firing her? Plus, U.S. Naval ships are headed towards Venezuela, sparking tensions between President
Maduro and President Trump. I'll discuss with one expert on Washington's Venezuela policy. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: U.S. President Donald Trump has revoked Kamala Harris' Secret Service protection, that is according to a copy of a letter reviewed by
CNN. As a former Vice President, Harris received six months of protection after leaving office, that is according to federal law. That period ended
on July 21st, but her protection had been extended for an additional year by then President Joe Biden shortly before leaving office.
[14:20:00]
Former Presidents receive Secret Service protection for life. An emergency court hearing over President Donald Trump's attempt to fire Federal Reserve
Governor Lisa Cook ended today after two hours with no immediate ruling from the federal judge overseeing it. The President, if you remember,
claims his terminating Cook with cause for committing mortgage fraud.
She's suing to block the firing while her case is heard, accusing Trump's actions, saying Trump's actions are unlawful. And it comes as the Trump
administration housing official sent a new criminal referral to the Justice Department against Cook late on Thursday, this time related to a mortgage
on a property in Massachusetts.
So, a lot happening. Let's go to Katelyn Polantz in Washington. A lot happening and also not moving, Katelyn, it seems, because two hours of
arguments, nothing has come out of it. But what did we hear?
KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN CRIME & JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, we heard two hours of discussion with the judge on the role of the court, the power of
the presidency, the independence of the Federal Reserve, the Central Bank of the United States. The two questions that this judge is primarily going
to have to figure out are, what's the harm here? And who is harmed?
If Lisa Cook keeps showing up to work, but President Donald Trump wants to remove her from the Federal Reserve Board of Governors, the Justice
Department, they're arguing that there shouldn't be a judicial stepping in here in this case. And the -- also, the other argument from the Justice
Department is that it is harmful to the Federal Reserve and the American economy, potentially, if there's a Federal Reserve governor with
allegations of mortgage fraud hanging over her head.
Now, those allegations have not resulted in any criminal charge at this point. And Lisa Cook's attorneys are saying that this are -- these are
unsubstantiated allegations of mortgage fraud here, that the harm would really be to her and to the Federal Reserve, potentially, if she cannot
keep working, that there would be politics, too much politics even around this decision by Donald Trump to remove her from the Federal Reserve board
if she's not allowed to continue the sanctity of the Federal Reserve is something the Supreme Court has acknowledged is a little bit different than
other independent agencies of the U.S. government.
But this is one of those cases where the judge -- and the second thing she's going to have to figure out is, who makes the rules and how much does
the President have a say in determining what it means to fire someone for cause? Is allegation enough, or is there another line that could be drawn
there, Isa?
SOARES: Well, these are -- these are all very big questions, Katelyn, that she has to answer. But -- so, what is the next step here? What is -- what
are we likely to see next?
POLANTZ: Well, we're going to be seeing more arguments on paper. So, these were arguments in person before the judge today. But before she's going to
be stepping in and making a decision. Judge Jacob(ph), the federal court in Washington, she wants more filings by Tuesday.
That would be the earliest point where she could even make initial determinations on whether Cook can still show up to work. But then, there
are the bigger questions that she could rule on. And of course, this is a trial level judge. This is only the first round. There are likely to be
appeals no matter what Judge Jacob(ph) does here in this case.
SOARES: I know you'll stay across it for us. Katelyn, good to see you. Thank you. Now, to the unprecedented turmoil at the CDC. Robert F. Kennedy
Jr. has named a new acting director at the nation's preeminent health agency following days of confusion and chaos. Jim O'Neill is a former
technology and biotech investor who has been serving as Kennedy's deputy Secretary of Health and Human Services despite, by the way, having no
medical background.
And this comes days after CDC director, if you remember, Susan Monarez, we talked about her earlier this week, was suddenly ousted, reportedly for
clashing with Kennedy over vaccine policy. Four top CDC officials resigned in protest. Their move celebrated and saluted by CDC staffers honoring
their contributions.
Our health reporter Jacqueline Howard joins me now from Atlanta. Wow, so much chaos at CDC. Break it all down for us, where are we now?
JACQUELINE HOWARD, CNN HEALTH REPORTER: Yes, there's a lot of turmoil, it's been an interesting 24 hours at this agency. So, just to put this in
perspective, at the CDC, back in Spring, the agency experienced sweeping job cuts, and then just a few weeks ago on August 8th, there was sadly an
active shooter who attacked the agency here in Atlanta, Georgia, their headquarters, their offices right here. And then just a couple days ago,
there was this sudden ousting of CDC director Dr. Susan Monarez.
[14:25:00]
Now, we have heard from Kennedy, who said he has appointed his deputy Secretary, Jim O'Neill to step in as acting CDC director. And many CDC
employees that I've talked to say that they are curious what his priorities will be. We do know, Jim O'Neill has worked at the Department of Health and
Human Services before.
This was during the George W. Bush administration, as you said, he has spent years as a biotech investor, technology investor in Silicon Valley.
But now, as he steps in to lead the CDC at this time, there are so many questions about what his impacts will be moving forward in this agency.
SOARES: Jacqueline Howard, appreciate it, thank you. And still to come tonight amid the Trump-Maduro dispute, Latin American countries are taking
side. A closer look at who backs the U.S. and who backs Venezuela. Plus, a new development in the leaked call scandal rocking Thailand. Why the now
former Prime Minister is apologizing? Both those stories after this very short break. You are watching CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: Welcome back everyone. The confrontation between the U.S. and Venezuela is growing both in accusations and in the mobilization of
resources of personnel as well as military ships. Forcing some Latin American countries to already take sides, as you can imagine. The Trump
administration is eager to highlight the support that it has received, including from Ecuador, the first country really to align with Washington.
[14:30:07]
A decree from Ecuadorian President Daniel Noboa to designate the Cartel de los Soles as a terrorist group of organized crime.
Now, the president of Paraguay, that's Santiago Pena, followed Ecuador's path. Argentina has also declared the group a terrorist organization this
Tuesday. And the successive statements that we're seeing from Latin American governments against the cartel and President Maduro was celebrated
by this lady, as you all know, and we've had numerous times on the show, Venezuelan opposition leader MarA-a Corina Machado. But Colombian President
Gustavo Petro is one of the few regional leaders who has questioned Washington's decision to go after the alleged drug trafficking groups.
Venezuela itself as well as its neighbor Colombia as you can see there insist Cartel de los Soles doesn't even exist.
Well joining me now is Geoff Ramsey. He is a senior fellow at the Atlantic Council's Adrienne Arsht Latin America Center and an expert on U.S. policy
toward Venezuela.
Geoff, good to see you again. We are seeing ,I think it's fair to say and you give me your insight there from Washington, this not only escalating
rhetoric but also like rising tensions from both side. How do you assess this moment? I mean, are we likely to see military confrontation or is this
purely intimidation here?
GEOFF RAMSEY SENIOR FELLOW, ATLANTIC COUNCIL'S ADRIENNE ARSHT LATIN AMERICA CENTER: Yes. Well, I think that's the real question. I mean, the reality is
that despite the rhetoric, the U.S. doesn't appear to be preparing to intervene militarily in Venezuela. The truth is that Trump was elected to
end wars, not to start them. And we've seen other indications that Washington is actually interested in engaging with Caracas behind the
scenes. We saw President Trump soften oil sanctions last month on Venezuela and we're seeing in increasing coordination with Maduro on deportations.
The Washington Post yesterday reported that two deportation flights occurred this week alone. I think all that suggests that Washington is
trying to keep channels open with Caracas, not gearing up for war.
SOARES: So, try -- I mean what you've just outlined, Geoff, is really interesting because on one side you're seeing you know these naval ships
being moved, but at the same time as you've just highlighted, we've seen slightly warming of rations when it comes to oil of course, the easing of
sanctions. What is then the aim from the United States? What is it looking to achieve realistically you think? Because they're saying they're going
after the cartels to try and weaken that. Do you believe that or is -- or is -- there is a two-prong -- is a pronged push here?
RAMSEY: Yes. Well, you know, I think the reality is that there are different theories of change in Venezuela within the administration itself.
You know, I think you have one strain that explains the recent engagement with Venezuela and the recent softening of oil section sanctions on
Venezuela. And that's also there's -- another strain which is really backing this show of force.
I think the reality is that this naval deployment is less about an invasion plan and is more about signaling. I think there are those in the White
House that think that if they signal to disaffected insiders inside the regime, that they can get them to jump ship and turn against Maduro. The
problem with that is that we've seen Maduro very effectively dismantle every coup attempt in Venezuela over the last 25 years.
SOARES: I was going to say -- I was going to interrupt you. I was going to say, we've been here so many times, Geoff. We've seen this so many times
and it hasn't had the desired effect the United States wants. If anything, some may even say it has only strengthen Maduro. So, what is -- if nothing
happens here, how do you think this may play out for the United States? OK. So, they move their ships. What next? because the U.S. saying that this is
because of the -- to combat drug cartels in the region, the White House Press Secretary even went further yesterday, roughly at this time
yesterday. Have a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The Maduro regime is not the legitimate government of Venezuela. It is a narco terror cartel. Maduro is
not a legitimate president. He is a fugitive head of this drug cartel. He has been indicted in the United States for trafficking drugs into our
country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: So, very clearly, the message we're getting from United States. You know, is it led by Maduro? What do you know? What can you tell us about
Cartel de los Soles?
RAMSEY: Yes, so you know the Cartel de los Soles has been shorthand for military involvement in drug trafficking in Venezuela over the last 25
years. It's a very real problem. However, you know, I think the truth is that cocaine makes its way north to the United States not only through the
Caribbean but also through the Pacific Ocean.
The recent UNODC World Drug Report suggests that about 70 percent or more of the cocaine that's bound for the North actually makes its way to the
U.S. via the Pacific Ocean. And so, you know, I think that's one reason why you're seeing Secretary Rubio about to visit Ecuador and Mexico later this
week. The reality is that the U.S. understands that this is the first step to deepen regional coordination in fighting the cartels and they're going
to need buy-in from leaders in Mexico, Ecuador, and elsewhere.
[14:35:33]
SOARES: And as you're talking about buying regionally, we are starting and we set that up just before we went to you to see how countries regionally
are reacting to this. We're starting already, Geoff, to see a divide clearly between those who want to see potentially regime change or would
back regime change from the United States and those who worry about a precedent. What are you seeing regionally as these tensions of course, you
know, up in the last few days or so?
UNODC World Drug Report Yes. So, I think there's a difference in the response from countries like Paraguay and Ecuador that don't share a border
with Venezuela and neighboring governments, not only governments on the left like Colombia and Brazil, but also the government of Panama which is a
right-wing government which just opened up diplomatic relations with Venezuela yesterday.
You know I think the reality is that these countries understand that they would be the most affected by an outflow of migrants and refugees if there
was any kind of destabilizing military attack. And it's why governments like Colombia's have come out openly and said that they've received
assurances from the U.S. government that there's no kind of military action on the table.
SOARES: Yes. Can I just pick your brain? You're in Washington. What it seems to be clear, and I think you probably can give us more details on
this, is that there are divisions within this White House as to what kind of policy we like to see, right? More of the hawks who want to see prop
possibly more military action and those of course who think let's stick to the immigration concerns and the cartel concerns. Can you speak to those
two pressures that President Trump probably is facing in Washington?
UNODC World Drug Report Yes. You know, I the reality is that there is one wing of the administration which believes that Maduro is weak and that with
this kind of a show of force, we can see some kind of a military uprising against him within Venezuela. And then there's another faction in the
administration which proposes a more gradual approach, a more sort of carrots and sticks based approach to trying to open up the country's
democracy -- open up the country's institutions and return to democracy.
I think that's one reason why you've seen this sort of forked approach. On the one hand, you see Washington has decided to lift sanctions on Venezuela
and is cooperating with the Maduro regime on deportation flights. And on the other hand, you see this naval deployment in the Caribbean. In the long
term, you know, I don't expect that Maduro is going to be toppled by some kind of disaffected elements inside the regime because we haven't seen that
play out over the last 25 years.
SOARES: No. And we were close to seeing that or at least many thought that we would see that, right, in the last, what, seven years or so. That hasn't
happened. We shall see what happens in the next few weeks. Geoff, I really appreciate it. Thank you very much indeed.
Now, a physical fight broke out in the Mexican Senate earlier this week following a heated debate on the possibility of U.S. military intervention.
And it happened on Wednesday after one of its members was apparently angry over not getting a chance to speak. Senator Alejandro Moreno of the
opposition party PRI stepped up to the podium and grabbed the arm of Senate President Gerardo Fernandez Norona from the ruling Morena party. Moreno
later said that he confronted Norona for changing the meeting agenda to prevent the opposition from speaking out. Drama indeed.
And still to come tonight, the Thai Prime Minister ousted after a controversial phone call and border clashes with Cambodia. Look at what
comes next in this political crisis. That's just ahead. And then later this hour, the massive effort to save the northern white rhino from total
extinction. You are watching CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:42:03]
SOARES: Thailand is facing political turmoil after its prime minister was removed from office over a leaked phone call. The country's top court said
the conversation with Cambodia's former leader which came at the height of the border tensions over the summer violated rules on ethics.
Our Mike Valerio has more for you from Soul.
MIKE VALERIO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Paetongtarn Shinawatra, who was Thailand's youngest-ever serving prime minister, is now removed from office
effective immediately. So, what exactly is behind this move? Well, a court in Thailand ruled that the now former prime minister violated Thailand's
ethics rules in a controversial phone call. The context, this goes back to tense border clashes over the summer between Thailand and Cambodia.
Paetongtarn got on the phone with Cambodia's former prime minister Hun Sen and could be heard calling him "uncle" and appearing to criticize her own
army's actions. Paetongtarn added in that phone call that if Hun Sen "wants anything, just tell me and I will take care of it." Contentious remarks
that became the center of the court case against her.
The phone call was recorded and leaked, confirmed as authentic by both sides. And here is Paetongtarn after Friday's verdict.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAETONGTARN SHINAWATRA, FORMER PRIME MINISTER, THAILAND (through translator): First and foremost, with respect for the justice process, I
accept the verdict of the constitutional court. However, as a Thai person, I would like to affirm my sincerity and my genuine intention to always work
for the country. In the leaked audio clip, I didn't ask for anything for my personal gain.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VALERIO: So, this leaked phone call struck a nerve in Thailand where nationalist fervor was already running high over the border dispute and
opponents accused Paetongtarn of compromising the country's national interests. The five-day conflict eventually resulted in at least 38 people
dead, mostly civilians, and forced hundreds of thousands to flee their homes.
Paetongtarn is now the latest, the fourth member of her family to be dismissed as premier. Her father, aunt, and uncle have all been forced out
of office. So, as for what happens now, parliament will have to approve a new prime minister. If they can't, it raises the prospects of new elections
and Thai voters may have to decide who becomes prime minister next.
Mike Valerio, CNN, Seoul.
SOARES: Well, a key gathering in China this weekend brings together three major world leaders, each under pressure from the United States. China's Xi
Jinping will host more than 20 leaders, including Russian President Vladimir Putin and Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi in a regional
security forum. Our Ivan Watson reports on what's at stake here.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Three world leaders whose countries dominate the map of Asia are about to meet in
China for a summit of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization. But looming over this Eurasian gathering will be the elephant not in the room.
[14:45:09]
YUN SUN, CHINA PROGRAM DIRECTOR, STIMSON CENTER: For this particular summit, U.S. may not be at the table, but U.S. is always present.
WATSON (voice-over): India's Prime Minister Narendra Modi will make his first trip to China in seven years.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We did it with India.
WATSON (voice-over): Days after Trump slammed a 50 percent tariff on Indian exports to the U.S. China and India's relationship cratered after a series
of deadly clashes first erupted along their disputed border in 2020.
JOE BIDEN, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: So, welcome again, Mr. Prime Minister. We have a big agenda.
WATSON (voice-over): For decades, Washington has been grooming India as a democratic counterbalance to China. But that suddenly changed in July when
Trump called India a dead economy and announced his punishing tariffs, insisting it was a penalty for buying Russian oil.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: India needs the support of the United States. And with that support no longer assured or in fact almost gone, Mr. Modi had no
option but to go and cut a deal with President Xi.
Meanwhile, Russia's president will stand with his old friend Xi Jinping again shortly after Trump rolled out the red carpet for Vladimir Putin in
Alaska.
TRUMP: Thank you very much, Vladimir.
I'm very disappointed with the conversation I had today with President Putin.
WATSON (voice-over): But Trump's on-again off off-again overtures to the Russian strongman unlikely to impact Russia and China's so-called no limits
partnership. Analysts say the glue that binds these once hostile neighbors ever closer is their shared perception of the U.S. as a threat.
SUN: For Washington, the traditional term that has been used is how do we break the Russia-China collusion? Well, it's a catch 22 because your desire
to break their collusion is a reason that they collude at the first place.
WATSON (voice-over): In 2022, just days before Russia's invasion of Ukraine, Putin and Xi called for the creation of a new world order. The
U.S.'s biggest global competitor is now capitalizing on Trump's chaotic diplomacy.
SUN: The message here that we have seen China emphasize is China represent credibility. It represents stability. It represents policy predictability.
WATSON (voice-over): Expect Xi to use this summit to present a Chinese-led alternative to a world long dominated by the U.S.
Ivan Watson, CNN, Tianjin, China.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOARES: And still to come tonight, the race to save the northern white rhino. We'll speak to one leading scientist about her groundbreaking work
to ensure the species survival. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:50:27]
SOARES: Welcome back, everyone. And a new documentary chronicles the race against time to save the northern white rhino. There are now only two
female white rhinos living on Earth. Scientists are trying to revive the subspecies through invitro fertilization. The team has been able to produce
38 embryos. The hope is to use the closely related southern white rhinos as surrogates. And this process is a scientific first in the animal
conservation field.
Joining us now is Dr. Susanne Holtze. She's a scientist with Biorescue. Dr. Suzanne, welcome to the show. I understand from my team that you on the
ground in Kenya with Biorescue, the consortium as we mentioned that is helping to rescue the rhinos. Talk us through how you facilitated the
rescue, the process, and whether you've been successful at all.
DR. SUSANNE HOLTZE, SCIENTIST, BIORESCUE: Yes. So far we have since 2019 been collecting all sites in the younger of the two last female surrogate -
- northern white rhinos. Fatu is her name and we have so far created these 38 embryos. We have before in the past decade done this in southern white
rhinos to optimize and develop this technology.
And so it's basically a team of three reproductive scientists who are in the back of the animal harvesting the oocytes. So, one needs to operate the
ultrasound probe which helps to see where to puncture. One operates the needle and one operates the flushing devices. So, we -- yes we empty the
follicles and hope to find the oocytes in the follicles we harvest. And these --
SOARES: We're looking at some of the photos-- sorry, I'm just going to say we're looking at some of the photos that you sent in in terms of the
process. But go ahead. You said the samples are then sent --
HOLTZE: To Italy. And they are -- yes, their embers are developed into and cryopreserved which we now use for performing embryo transfers in Kenya
again. And so, it's quite challenging to --
SOARES: Yes. I was going to say the challenging part. I mean, if we look at the two -- I think is Najin and Fatu. They -- I mean these are very large
animals, right? And if I understand, they can't have babies for health reasons. Collecting, you know, viable embryos for -- from such large
creatures, that is a challenge in itself, right?
HOLTZE: It is. It is indeed. Specialized devices (INAUDIBLE) developed to (INAUDIBLE). And yes, it is a huge challenge. And of course, this procedure
also needs anesthesia to keep both the humans involved and the animals safe. And yes it is a big endeavor and it involves a lot of people. It's a
huge team effort in the end.
SOARES: Has it been -- I suppose what many viewers will want to know, doctor, has it been successful. The in vitro has completed. Has it been
successful?
HOLTZE: So, successfully we've created 38 embryos so far and we have proven in the southern white rhino which is the sister taxon of the sister
species. They are considered to be subspecies. But in the southern white rhino we were able to do a successful embryo transfer which means we could
show that we can connect the entire cycle. We can harvest oocytes, fertilize them with cryopreserved sperm in the lab, grow embryos, freeze
the embryos, and then thaw them again in the field and bring them back into life, a surrogate female, and create a new rhino baby.
SOARES: How quickly --
HOLTZE: So we are very --
SOARES: How quickly -- just on that, how quickly do you think you can help raise the number of northern white rhinos? I mean, how long will this
process take?
HOLTZE: So this is to predict but we are now starting to perform embryo transfers with northern white rhino embryos to southern white rhino
surrogate mothers. And we are quite optimistic that in the near future we will be successful and we will be able to increase the number of northern
white rhinos from two to three.
SOARES: Doctor --
HOLTZE: In humans for example --
[14:55:02]
SOARES: No. Go ahead. Finish your thought. You -- the video broke up.
HOLTZE: The first successful embryo transfer in humans took over 100 trials. So, we hope to be much quicker than this but I'm very optimistic we
will reach this goal in in the near future.
SOARES: Here's hoping. They're beautiful creatures, doctor. I really appreciate it. Thank you very much indeed.
Now, catching a shark is a pretty big deal from any fisherman who's ever done it. But a rare shark being caught is much more impressive. Check out
this neon orange nurse shark reeled in by a fisherman in the waters of Costa Rica. That was in last August. Its unusual color comes from a
phenomenon known as -- I'm going to try and say this -- xanthism or xanthi -- I'm sorry if I said incorrectly -- which causes animals to take on
orange or golden tones. Researchers are saying it's the first time the condition has ever been recorded in the species.
You can also see from the images the shark's eyes are white with no visible irises. Sharks typically have black irises. A little fact for you in a
Friday night.
That does it for us for this hour. Thank you very much for your company all this week. A very busy week. Do stay right here though. "WHAT WE KNOW" with
Max Foster is up next. Have a wonderful weekend.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
