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Isa Soares Tonight
NATO Shoots Down Russian Drones in Polish Airspace; Israel Targets Hamas Leaders in Qatar Strike; Block Everything Protests Sweep Across France As New Prime Minister Takes Office. New French Prime Minister Takes Office; Gaza Ceasefire Talks in Limbo; Israel Faces Growing Backlash Over Qatar Strike; Alliance Shot Down Russian Drones in Polish Airspace. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired September 10, 2025 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00]
ISA SOARES, HOST, ISA SOARES TONIGHT: A very warm welcome to the show, everyone, I'm Isa Soares. Tonight, Russian drones shot down in Polish
airspace as NATO vows to defend every inch of its territory. I'll speak to Latvia's President about the anxiety in his country. Then, as condemnation
pours in from around the globe following Israel's attack on Hamas leaders in Qatar's capital this hour, we hear exclusively from Qatar's Prime
Minister.
Plus, a day of unrest across France with demonstrators blocking roads and clashing with police. We'll take you live to a protest in Paris in just a
moment. But first tonight, two wars, two fronts, both reshaping the global stage. In Qatar, fury and outrage after Israel targets Hamas leadership in
the heart of the capital.
And in Poland, a dramatic escalation as Russian drones are shot down inside NATO airspace. The Prime Minister there calling it a clear act of
aggression. And that's where we begin this evening in Poland, with widespread fallout from a Russian drone incursion. You can see scorched
earth here showing where those drones hit.
According to Prime Minister Donald Tusk, there were 19 intrusions into Polish airspace. Mr. Tusk also said this is the closest his country has
been to open conflict since World War II. Russia's Defense Ministry is pushing back, claiming they were not aiming for targets in Poland and
accusing them of escalating the crisis in Ukraine. Meanwhile, the Polish Foreign Affairs Minister calls this incident a mockery of U.S. peace
efforts. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RADOSLAW SIKORSKI, FOREIGN AFFAIRS MINISTER, POLAND: I think Putin is mocking President Trump's peace efforts and testing NATO. We don't believe
this was accidental because previously, when one or two drones breached our airspace, they came from Ukraine. These drones, a part of them came from
Belarus.
And therefore, this was likely planned. It's also accompanied by a huge Russian disinformation campaign. If you hear someone saying that this was a
Ukrainian provocation, you can be sure that this is either Russian propaganda or someone parroting Russian propaganda.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Sikorski there. Well, Poland's European allies are condemning the airspace violation. Here's what the German as well as British Defense
Ministers had to say just a short time ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BORIS PISTORIUS, DEFENSE MINISTER, GERMANY (through translator): The repeated violations of airspace, especially the ones here by Russian drones
are unacceptable and constitute a deliberate provocation not only against Poland, this must be clearly emphasized. It is a provocation against NATO
as a whole and against our European security order.
JOHN HEALEY, DEFENSE MINISTER, BRITAIN: As your NATO ally, we will support you, our Polish friends. As your NATO ally, we will play our part to help
secure the safety of your people. And following our discussions today, I've asked our U.K. Armed Forces to look at options to bolster NATO's air
defense over Poland.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Well, let's stay in this conversation. Joining me now is the President of Latvia, Edgars Rinkevics live from Riga. Mr. President,
welcome back to the show. Good to see you. As we've just outlined there to our viewers, this was truly a remarkable incursion inside Poland, inside
NATO territory. Just give me your reaction. Was this deliberate you think?
EDGARS RINKEVICS, PRESIDENT, LATVIA: Well, first of all, thank you very much for having me. And indeed, I think that such kind of incursion, so
many drones, so deliberate, actually action leads me to say that this was intentional attack. Of course, there is still fact-checking ongoing, but it
is highly unusual that you have such a number of drones crossing from different directions.
[14:05:00]
As our Foreign Minister of Poland just noted, not only from Ukraine, but also from Belarus.
SOARES: So, intentional deliberate to -- with what aim exactly, Mr. President, to test what? Poland's defenses? NATO resolve? What was the
intention here? What was it trying to achieve here?
RINKEVICS: I think I would say three aims, at least, from my perspective. Number one, to test Polish air defense. And I think that Poland has done
actually remarkable job at this incident. Number two, yes, to see what NATO reaction is. Let's not also forget that we have Zapad 2025 exercise
beginning shortly in Belarus and also in Russia near our borders.
But also, I think it's number three to send the kind of message to population in so-called eastern flank countries or frontline states that,
look, we can do some hybrid warfare activity. What can you do? And of course, let's be frank, there is growing anxiety in societies in the
countries that are bordering Russia, Belarus, and people are asking questions what NATO is going to do about this?
And I do believe that the answer is two-fold. One is to strengthen air defense of eastern flank countries. Number two is to put more pressure on
Russia through sanctions, through political means, through economic means.
SOARES: You're talking about eastern flank, you also mentioned, Mr. President, the anxiety. I wonder if that anxiety is being felt in Latvia.
How do you assess the risk to your airspace? Are you asking NATO to strengthen that eastern flank?
RINKEVICS: Yes, we do. We do ask for rotational air defense presence, actually, those decisions have been taken in NATO summit in Vilnius and
reaffirmed in Washington. And then, of course, also in the last summit in The Hague. There are some steps taken -- actually, we also had a drone
incident a year ago.
So, we took some lessons learned. We also work with NATO, Baltic air policing mission. There are certain procedures improved. However, what we
have seen that not only Poland, but also other NATO countries have been affected in the past, not only Latvia, but also Lithuania, also Romania.
There have been also reports about Poland. So, I do believe that what we need to do is to show resolve. We had a very interesting example a couple
of months ago in the Baltic sea. At one point, undersea cables, undersea infrastructure were damaged quite often. Then NATO decided to send more
ships, so-called Baltic Sentry mission or activity.
And so far, we have seen a decrease of such kind of accidents. Can they repeat themselves? Or can Russia try to test us again? Yes, we do see it
there. That's a kind of new reality that we need to find a way. How to -- we -- how to respond.
SOARES: Then let's put this for our viewers into this incursion, Mr. President, and into context, because just last week, of course, President
Trump -- I think it was last week hosted Polish President at the White House a couple of weeks ago, I should say. Today, President Trump's first
statement, in fact, we're due to hear from him later on this as well, on this intrusion by Russia was, in fact, on Truth Social, where he said,
"what's with Russia violating Poland's airspace with drones? Here we go." What exactly does that mean? How do you translate that?
RINKEVICS: Well, I do believe that President Trump will comment on this later. I think there is also time difference between Riga and Washington,
seven hours. But look, I do believe that we all need to understand that Russia and the Kremlin and Putin really test kind of borders, not only
physical borders, but also it's a kind of political, moral borders of our resolve.
And I think that what is absolutely needed is a very clear response. The problem that we unfortunately have from time-to-time that we issue a very
strong-worded statements, but sometimes we don't have actions. I would propose a couple of those. I think that the United States are great friends
and allies of Poland and the Baltic states.
And I do believe that the U.S. administration, U.S. public do understand what is at stake. However, what is needed is, as I said, more sanctions --
SOARES: Yes --
[14:10:00]
RINKEVICS: More military improvements in the eastern flank countries, and we are ready to discuss those. But I would let actually also Intelligence
community to gather more facts to brief the U.S. President, U.S. government, and I do believe that there are going to be right decisions
taken at the right time.
SOARES: You were speaking there, Mr. President, of a clear response. We have seen deadlines put on discussions. We have seen threats from President
Putin. We have not seen any follow-through. What would you like to see from the U.S. President? What would you like the U.S. to be -- what kind of
pressure to be applied right here to Mr. Putin?
RINKEVICS: Well, I do think that one very important step is to continue supporting Ukraine. Ukraine is our first line of defense of NATO, of
Europe, of Latvia, in fact, of Poland, in fact. And I think that, what is clearly needed and also there are NATO decisions. We are paying for
different kind of weapons also produced in the United States so that they are being delivered to Ukraine and used by Ukrainians, air defense systems,
other systems.
Number two, I was talking about economic pressure -- yes, I do believe that also the European Union must do more work. We are preparing sanction
packages, but the big elephant in the room, if I may say, is also the frozen Russian assets that --
SOARES: Yes --
RINKEVICS: We can use to support Ukraine. And of course, here, it's not the United States that are at fault. Unfortunately, we can't make decision
at the European Union level, and that's our problem. And finally, yes, indeed, I do hope that also taking into account that my country, Latvia,
for instance, is spending more than 3 percent for defense of the country.
If we look in terms of GDP, and we are going to increase to 5 percent, that there is also clear understanding that some of those decisions that we have
taken at NATO level, not only about spending, but also about NATO presence, about air defense, those are implemented. And here, of course, I do hope
that all allies, including the United States, are going to be in full solidarity with the countries that are in the -- in the immediate region.
SOARES: Yes, Mr. President, really appreciate you taking the time to speak to us. Thank you very much, sir.
RINKEVICS: Thank you very much.
SOARES: Thank you. Now, we turn our attention to the events unfolding in Qatar. Israel is facing, continue to face growing condemnation tonight over
its unprecedented airstrike in Qatar. The UAE President who called the Israeli attack criminal and a violation of international law, traveled to
Doha today in a show of solidarity.
Hamas says five members of the group were killed on Tuesday, but ceasefire negotiations were not among the victims. Israel's ambassador to the U.S.
warns it's not over yet, and in an interview with "Fox News", vowed to hit any Hamas targets the military missed, next time. But other Israeli
officials appear to be in damage control mode.
The country's lead ceasefire negotiator says he was unaware of a specific strike plan when he met a day earlier with U.S. special envoy Steve
Witkoff. Qatar's Prime Minister meanwhile tells CNN, Israel's strike undermines any chance for peace, and that Benjamin Netanyahu has killed any
hope, his words for Israeli hostages.
Our Nic Robertson joins me now from Doha. And Nic, we have heard some incredibly strong words from that part of the world, from the Qataris,
pretty furious, I think it's fair to say, was such a treacherous criminal. Just what kind of response, then, are we likely to see from the Qataris?
Give us a sense of what you are hearing this hour.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: it's not clear what their response will be. It's very likely to be diplomatic. And that's what
we're hearing, the very strong overtones from, and CNN's Becky Anderson's interview just conducted with the Prime Minister of Qatar right now, very
strong lines.
He was saying, for example, we have no words to describe how enraged we are. The criticism he lays at Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's feet of
leading the gulf into chaos, putting the whole region at risk and directly to the heart of what Prime Minister Netanyahu has only in recent weeks said
was his top goal to get the hostages back.
The Qatari Prime Minister says Prime Minister Netanyahu's actions striking the Hamas residential building here in Qatar was killing any chance for the
hostages.
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He said they are completely -- Qatar is completely reassessing its position as a mediator in this role. He feels that Israel -- he feels rather that
Qatar has been, in his words, just searching for his exact words here. We have been betrayed. This is in diplomatic terms, huge language. He is
signaling that he does not want to be in the fray in the mix of trying to do what he was doing before, which will bring about this peace.
Now, what does Qatar actually do? Its gulf partners, Saudi Arabia, the UAE, you mentioned the president of the UAE here today have said that they will
support Qatar. It has a right to respond, and they will support it and whatever that response is, no one at this stage is talking about a military
style response.
I think we're far more looking at very strong diplomatic language and a real appeal to the White House to try to -- try to lean more heavily in the
relationship between President Trump and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to bring about what they would see as a more rational actor in the region.
Right now, they are saying Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is trying to bring chaos, wants only conflict in the region. This is really tough
language.
SOARES: It is indeed. And just for our viewers who are just joining us, we have, of course -- waiting to play to you to get in full that interview,
exclusive interview that our Becky Anderson, our colleague has just conducted with the Qatari Prime Minister as Nick was mentioning, as soon as
that is in our hands, of course, we will play it.
But you were bringing to us some of the key lines, Nic. I wonder -- and we heard what Qatar -- the Qatari Prime Minister had to say about Netanyahu
regarding hostages as well. I wonder where this puts Qatar with the United States in terms of relationship. Qatar is a staunch U.S. ally, of course,
it's a mediator for the hostages and ceasefire talks. A host of a U.S. base. Where does that leave that relationship with this President?
ROBERTSON: You know, I think, again, the gulf states are going to look to act together as much as they can. Of course, they have their very
significant differences, but they will look to act together. Let's look back at how the Europeans coalesced around their opposition to President
Trump's meeting and the structure and the output of his meeting with President Putin not so long ago.
So, I think we will look here that the -- that the UAE, that Saudi Arabia, the UAE is a host of a huge U.S. Naval base as you say. The Qataris, not
only just interlocutors for the U.S. carrying diplomatic water with the Hamas negotiations. They've done it with the Taliban, they have this huge
air base here. Indeed, not so long ago, when the U.S. joined Israel in striking Iran, it was Qatar that took Iran's air missiles fired towards
Qatar that were intercepted.
It is finding itself increasingly in the crosshairs because of the position it has taken vis-a-vis support of the United States, and by implicitly,
therefore, the support in a way of Israel and Israel's actions in the region. I think in the region, I think we can expect to see a strong appeal
from these powerful and influential gulf leaders, who have had strong dependency and relations and an economic interchange to their advantage, to
the United States advantage for decades now.
It's going to -- it's going to push towards a recalibration of that, at a time when China is increasingly on the ascendancy and will look to exploit
it. Don't expect any massive changes on Russia overnight. But do expect this to factor into discussions that these -- that these states will have
between each other in of themselves about how they move forward with a United States that appears less able to give them the backing that they've
always wanted from it.
The security, by having an air base here, the expectation is you buy in a level of security, and the United States --
SOARES: Yes --
ROBERTSON: Is somewhat responsible in that, they would view.
SOARES: Such important context there from our Nic Robertson in Qatar. Nic, don't go very far, as soon as we have that interview, we'll of course,
we'll play and we'll get you to give us your thoughts off the back of that. And in the meantime, thank you, Nic. I want to turn to the White House,
because White House, as you saw, we played it yesterday, pretty much caught by surprise by Israel's decision to strike Qatar.
And clearly, frustrated U.S. President Donald Trump said the attack was, quote, "not a decision made by me". The President says he was very unhappy
about every aspect of the strike on an important U.S. ally. Mr. Trump says he plans to make a full statement on the matter later today.
[14:20:00]
Our CNN senior White House reporter Kevin Liptak is with us. And Kevin, we know that President Trump and Prime Minister Netanyahu spoke, I think twice
after Israel striking Qatar. Do we know how the conversations have been with the Qataris and what are we likely to hear from the President a bit
later? We know he's very unhappy, but what else are we likely to see?
KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yes, and I think everything that we've heard from the White House and from the President have been a
fairly carefully-calibrated, but it does betray a degree of very intense frustration. When you talk to officials behind the scenes, they are not at
all pleased at how this exactly proceeded those calls with Benjamin Netanyahu.
You know, the Israelis say that they went fairly well. But I think, you know, these have a history -- these two men have a history of some fairly
tense conversations when something like this happens. And I think when you talk to officials, the frustration is two part. One is the timing of all of
this when President Trump had just put this new proposal on the table to try and get a ceasefire deal in Gaza, as Hamas with the Qataris were
discussing and sort of parsing some of the terms of it.
And by the fact that the U.S. wasn't given virtually any heads up. You know, the Qataris said today that by the time Steve Witkoff, the
President's foreign envoy, got them on the phone after being notified about the strike, the bombs had already been falling for ten minutes. So, it was
essentially too late for the U.S. to intervene.
And it was very notable yesterday when Karoline Leavitt came out to the White House press room, she made it very clear that they did not receive
any political notification from the Israelis. No, it was not Benjamin Netanyahu picking up the phone and talking to President Trump before this
was carried out.
It was the U.S. military who received word and then informed the White House. And so, you see the White House, both distancing the President from
this decision in any way, but also voicing some pretty serious frustration that it runs counter to what the President is trying to accomplish in the
region.
And I think the fact that it occurred in Qatar sort of doubled what would have ordinarily been just a degree of frustration. Qatar is obviously an
important U.S. ally in the region, but President Trump has also placed an enormous degree of emphasis on that country. He was the first sitting
President to visit there back in May.
Qatar, if you remember, donated a luxury Boeing 747 for the President to use as Air Force One. For the Qataris, I think all of that was meant to
cultivate an administration with the knowledge that the U.S. security sort of guarantee and blanket was essential for them going forward. But
President Trump also, I think somewhat, you know, taken aback that Israel would go after a country with which he had spent so much time trying to
improve relations, trying to deepen relations.
And so, I think that's part of why this was such a degree of frustration for him and for his aides, as all of this was playing out.
SOARES: Kevin Liptak, appreciate it, thank you very much indeed. Stay across this story, of course, we are going to continue staying in Middle
East because Israel says that it is striking, meantime, Houthi targets in Yemen. Airstrikes hit the capital Sanaa and other locations, including
military camps, according to Israel's Defense Minister.
Houthi media says a government complex in the north was also targeted. The attack comes less than two weeks after the Houthi Prime Minister and other
senior officials were killed in an Israeli airstrike on Sanaa. Well, as Israel faces condemnation abroad and unease at home over its strike in
Qatar, it's moving full speed ahead with its plan to take over Gaza city, which would effectively displace some 1 million Palestinians living there.
The Israeli military says it struck 360 terror targets today alone, and vows to increase the pace of strikes in the coming days. One of those
targets was a high rise building, you can see the plumes of smoke following that explosion there. One man described what that moment was like. Have a
listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): We were living in a tent and trying to manage our situation. But today, the Israeli occupation
threatened the residential tower next to us and bombed it. As you can see, our tent, our belongings, our food, our drink and our entire life were
destroyed in our tent. Thank God we survived, but we don't have anything left for us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: And still to come tonight, protests turned violent in France on the same day the country gets a new Prime Minister. Tale of two cities.
We'll tell you in a live report next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:25:00]
SOARES: Welcome back, everyone, French President Emmanuel Macron hoping that the fifth time is the charm. Today, his fifth Prime Minister in just
two years was sworn in. Sebastien Lecornu chosen to succeed Francois Bayrou, who lost a confidence vote he called himself. Lecornu is the former
Defense Minister and a center-right loyalist, signaling that President Macron isn't budging, it seems, from his economic reforms.
And that, as you can imagine, is pouring fuel on the fire of already planned nationwide protests. A day of disruption called Block Everything by
organizers is bringing thousands to the streets. Demonstrators rejecting proposed austerity measures by the French government, with more than 300
people detained so far. That's what we're going to take you now, the streets of Paris, Melissa Bell is there. Melissa, how is it looking this
hour?
MELISSA BELL, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's gotten much quieter here, the Place de la Republique. But what we did see over the
course of the day, Isa, were really these protests gaining strength. At about midday, the Interior Ministry was saying there were about 30,000
people out on the streets across France, by tonight, by 6:00 p.m., they were talking about 175,000.
So, a huge increase according to them over the course of the afternoon. And this in more than 800, what they described as protest actions, because one
of the characteristics of this day, normally you have these great big marches through the center of Paris, often starting or ending here at
Republique.
Today, these were individual actions of blockage. They were trying to surround train stations. They were blocking highways. And that was, of
course, much more difficult for the police to deal with. There were a few violent clashes. You spoke a moment ago to the number of detentions. I
think it gives you an idea of determination of those who are here on the streets.
But I think the surprising figure by the end of the day is that, the sheer number of people who came out to protest today -- and it speaks, as you
said, to the underlying anger, because these protests have been called for a while ago, that there is about things like the cost of living, inflation,
but also about Emmanuel Macron's policies, the reform policies it has been pursuing since 2017.
There's a large part of the French population that's always been very opposed to them, and has added to that. That has been added to that a layer
of people who are extremely dissatisfied with the blockages that we've seen over the course of the last year or so. The fact that we are now on our
fourth Prime Minister, drawn from the center with no chance being given to the left.
The fact that Emmanuel Macron has once again chosen an ally. There are a lot of people very disgruntled within France's parliament, very disgruntled
here out on the streets at the prospect of yet another Macronist taking over (INAUDIBLE) which is the seat of prime ministerial power.
So, even as he tries to cobble together his government, having taken power only officially today, having had it given to him by the outgoing Prime
Minister, he will now seek some kind of consensus, some kind of government from within the mainstream parties, right, left, center, excluding the
extremes we imagine, and try and get them to start to push through Parliament this austerity budget that we imagine he will try and pick up
from his predecessor on. What you can be sure of, Isa, is that there will be a lot more of what we saw today, a sort of industrial action, popular
protests, and one planned already for next week.
SOARES: Let's see whether Lecornu has more luck than his predecessor, right. Let's see. Melissa, appreciate it. Thank you.
Still to come tonight, the Israeli strike and its impact on ceasefire talks in Qatar. I'll speak with a former U.S. negotiator. He was on duty during
the 2014 Gaza War.
Plus, from the Middle East to Europe, President Trump is under pressure like never before. The full story coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: And returning to one of our top stories, the Israeli strike on Qatar leaves Gaza ceasefire and hostage release talks in limbo. Qatar had
been a crucial mediator, of course, hosting dozens of rounds of negotiations between Israel, Hamas, and other nations, including the United
States.
Now, Qatar's prime minister said he sees no value in continuing the efforts to pause the war. The fate of the Israeli hostages being held by Hamas also
seems stuck in limbo. One family member said she was scarred -- she was scared, pardon me, the strike would be her son's death sentence.
Joining us now, Frank Lowenstein, the former U.S. special envoy for Israeli-Palestinian negotiations during the Obama administration. Frank,
welcome to the show. We are waiting at any moment for an exclusive interview that our colleague Becky Anderson has just finished conducting
with the prime minister of Qatar.
[14:35:00]
She did ask him where this leaves any sort of negotiations, mediating efforts. And I have the rough transcript here. I'm just going to tell you
what he says. You don't expect the U.S. to attack the Taliban -- No. Have you ever heard about a neutral country being attacked that hosts talks? You
don't expect the U.S. to attack the Taliban office because of something in Afghanistan. This is setting a precedent. International law is being put
into question. Do the International Community want a rule-based order or a chaotic world? What we are seeing in our region right now, this prime
minister, speaking of Prime Minister Netanyahu, is leading us to a chaotic world and nothing is stopping him.
They are furious, absolutely furious here, Frank. Where does this leave any sort of negotiations? Is this dead in the water?
FRANK LOWENSTEIN, U.S. SPECIAL ENVOY DURING 2014 GAZA WAR: Well, I think for the time being, certainly it is. I think this attack clearly
demonstrates that Netanyahu is not interested in the ceasefire to get the hostages out. He's committed to the complete and indefinite occupation of
the Gaza Strip. And hopefully, in his mind, implement the Trump plan to drive all the Palestinians out of Gaza altogether.
And second of all, I think it really does call into question the process of mediation going forward, and particularly the role of the United States. I
mean, the fact that the Hamas folks were targeted while they were considering a proposal by President Trump in a country that's been hosting
these negotiations, and whom Trump assured there would not be any attacks on their soil. It just shows that we have no ability to control the
Israelis.
And I was involved in the negotiations between Hamas and Israel, mediated by Qatar in 2014. And just given the profound mistrust between the parties,
it's doubly important that they have faith and confidence in the mediators. And I think our credibility is shot at this point.
SOARES: Yes. So, what would you like to see from the U.S. president then? We're expected to hear from the president, I think, I believe a bit later.
You're talking -- you're not the only analyst I've spoken to in the last 24 hours. In fact, he's talked about the credibility of the United States
being in question. What role -- what should the United States be doing then at this junction to try and revive this?
LOWENSTEIN: Well, I think it'll be very interesting to see how President Trump responds. He was obviously furious about this attack. He had
obviously close relationships with the Qataris. And he had just said that there was going to be a ceasefire in the next couple of days. So, he put
political capital on the line, only to be completely undercut by the Israelis.
And this is not the first time they've done that. Remember, they killed Yahya Sinwar the day after Hamas released the last American hostage. They
attacked Iran in the middle of the negotiations, Trump was running on the Iran nuclear deal. And at the end of the day, it's very clear that they
don't care what President Trump says.
I don't think he likes being treated disrespectfully. I don't think he'd like to see the United States being treated disrespectfully. But at this
point, the only thing that's going to matter is if he's willing to take punitive actions against the Israelis, because obviously the words don't
matter to them.
SOARES: And do you think he will, Frank?
LOWENSTEIN: I think we will do something symbolic. I think in the first instance, what we would have done -- I think what most administrations will
do is give the Israelis a very, very tough message behind the scenes, like this cannot happen again. And I think the trust is really gone. I mean,
Dermer was in town a couple of days ago talking about the post-war plan, Bibi's top adviser, and obviously didn't mention this. So, I think we feel
profoundly deceived by the Israelis on this. And I think a very strong message will be given that this kind of message won't be tolerated going
forward.
I also wouldn't be surprised if we allowed some sort of rebuke to move through the Security Council resolution -- U.N. Security Council just as a
message to the Israelis that we are prepared to back up our words with actions.
SOARES: I wonder then, you know, like you pointed out, I mean, it's all very embarrassing, no doubt for the United States and for President Trump.
I wonder where this leaves then, who plays the role of mediator? Because the Qataris were saying, and I'm quoting here, "When it comes to the
current ceasefire talks, I don't think there is something valid right now after we've seen such an attack happening like this." This is a Qatari
prime minister earlier.
If not Qatar's mediators, who else? And at what cost, given what we've just seen in the last 24 hours?
LOWENSTEIN: Yes, that's a really good question. I think the Egyptians would be the logical ones to play that role. They've been partnering with
the Qataris in the United States in this mediation process. But I really don't think there's any point in having ceasefire negotiations at this
point in time, as horrible as the situation is for the hostages and obviously for millions of totally innocent Palestinian civilians who are,
you know, living in the middle of a horrific humanitarian crisis.
As terrible as that situation is, I just don't think there's any way Netanyahu is going to agree to anything other than this complete and
indefinite occupation of Gaza. And in that case, you know, the hope would be that at some point down the road, he changes course. The IDF is opposed
to this invasion. They don't want responsibility for governing 2 million Palestinians. And the political situation in Israel, the people are
strongly in favor of a ceasefire deal.
So, hopefully the political winds will change inside of Israel, and then the Egyptians or others may be willing to step up. But for right now, we're
in a very, very bad place with respect to any hopes for a ceasefire.
[14:40:00]
SOARES: It is. It doesn't bode well for the Palestinians. It doesn't bode well for the hostages, of course, and their families who are incredibly
worried, given what's just happened in the last 24 hours. But critically and very briefly here, trust. Can you -- you've been in this situation. How
do you go about building trust? If not now, Frank, when?
LOWENSTEIN: Yes. Well, I think we've already started to tell the Qataris, hey, look, we had no idea this was going on. We were informed a lot of the
planes were in the air. So, that obviously raises questions about U.S.- Israel trust. But I think what we'll do to try to repair this is to tell the Qataris, hey, we did everything we can to stop it, and we will never
let anything like this happen again.
SOARES: Frank, really appreciate you coming on the show. Thank you very much indeed.
LOWENSTEIN: Thanks for having me.
SOARES: We're going to take a short break. We'll see you on the other side.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: Israel's attack on Hamas officials in Qatar is putting pressure on President Donald Trump's global credibility. The U.S. president says the
strike, which hit a residential district in Doha, was not his decision. Mr. Trump also said he wasn't thrilled about the whole situation, a move to
reassure Qatari leaders. And the incident comes as he also faces pressure in Europe. NATO aircraft intercepted Russian drones in Polish airspace for
the first time since the war in Ukraine began. NATO Chief Mark Rutte warned the alliance will defend every inch of its territory.
Let's get more now from CNN Politics Senior Reporter Stephen Collinson. And, Stephen, we are seeing two wars on two fronts and both wars that
President Trump, worth reminding our viewers, vowed to put an end to. But it seems that we are further away from peace, especially in light of that
strike in Qatar and that drone incursion. Where does this leave then President Trump's credibility?
STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN POLITICS SENIOR REPORTER: I think in a traditional sense for an American president to be defied within the space of 24 hours
effectively by an Israeli leader who conducted a strike on the territory of a U.S. ally, Qatar, that was working on behalf of the United States to try
and forge peace in Gaza and then for this incident in Poland to unfold within hours of that, drones going into Poland, supposedly from Russia, I
mean, this is a massive blow to Trump's international credibility, not least because he met President Vladimir Putin about a month ago in Alaska.
[14:45:00]
He thinks Putin wants to end the war and he also promised to end the war in Gaza as soon as he took office. So, if you judge Trump by his own words and
his own actions, I think this is pretty embarrassing.
SOARES: Yes. I was just speaking in the last five minutes or so to Frank Lowenstein, the former U.S. special envoy for Israeli-Palestinian
negotiations during the Obama administration, Stephen, and he said very much what I've heard from various guests in over a period of 24 hours is
how embarrassing this is for this administration. But there's another aspect to this too, which is policy.
Is foreign policy -- this foreign policy, is it being effective in the region? Just take, for example, Ukraine, start off with.
COLLINSON: Well, you know, I'm not that sure what American foreign policy actually is. I mean, it seems to unfold as an opportunity for Donald Trump
to try and create deals, real estate style deals, there's no preparation for many of these meetings. Most of them are orchestrated by his envoy,
Steve Witkoff, who's involved in both of these situations to a notable lack of success.
If you look at in the past when the United States has been successful in ending wars, Bosnia, for example, in the 1990s, it took weeks, months, and
years of painful diplomacy at lower levels before the president was called in to try and get things over the line. It needs constant presidential
attention, but not necessarily constant presidential meetings.
So, what we have is a photo op foreign policy based on some conception that the world can be run like some New York real estate deal, and it obviously
isn't very effective.
SOARES: Then what does he do next? I mean, damage control, what we have been seeing and are speaking to the Latvian president at the top of the
hour is, you know, threats, deadlines, but never a follow through. How are we going to see the president pivot here to try and rebuild that trust and
that credibility, Stephen?
COLLINSON: Yes, and that's the issue. There's never been a consequence. There was never a consequence for Prime Minister Netanyahu for working
against what you could say were American interests in pursuit of Israeli policy. Instead, he came to the White House and told Trump he'd nominate
him for the and he used flattery to get his way.
There hasn't been a consequence for this extraordinary escalation by President Putin since he met Trump in Alaska. You know, missile strikes on
European facilities, an American factory in Western Ukraine, and now this drone issue. So, there's never been a pushback. And you get to a point when
things escalate so much that the pushback has to be so serious that that itself could create the risk of escalation, especially in the Russian case.
So, it doesn't seem like Trump, in my opinion, is particularly interested in following through on harsh consequences for Israel or Russia. Maybe that
changes, but we haven't -- you know, we haven't heard much from the White House so far. We had a Truth Social post from the president on the Poland
situation in which he seemed to be more of a commentator on events than, you know, the key leader of NATO on whose -- on whom, you know, Europe's
security depends.
SOARES: Stephen Collinson, as always, thank you very much indeed.
COLLINSON: Thanks.
SOARES: Now, U.S. President Donald Trump's emergency declaration federalizing Washington, D.C.'s police force expires at midnight, but the
National Guard will remain on the streets at least for now. White House officials said the president doesn't mind letting his 30-day takeover lapse
because he feels the city has taken steps to cooperate.
Last week, if you remember, the D.C. mayor called for indefinite collaboration with federal law enforcement, and it comes as congressional
Republicans advance a series of bills that would impose significant restrictions on the district's ability to govern itself. And as the
president threatens a federal takeover of Baltimore and Chicago, two other Democratic-led cities.
And still to come tonight, King Charles reunited with Prince Harry for the first time in almost two years. We'll have the details next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:50:00]
BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: We have breaking news to CNN. A source tells CNN that Trump ally and the founder of Turning Points USA, Charlie Kirk, was
shot at an event on a college campus in Utah.
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: And the extent of Kirk's injuries at this point are not immediately clear. Let's talk now with CNN's Kristen Holmes. We
have CNN political director David Chalian with us as well. Kristen, what can you tell us?
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Brianna and Boris, I want to be very clear. I cannot tell you that much right now because this
is a very fluid situation. People are still trying to figure out the details, the extent of the injury, and what exactly unfolded on that Utah
campus.
As we have reported, Charlie Kirk is a close ally of President Trump's. Not only that, he is somebody who helped him get elected this cycle, he is
often seen here at the White House. He runs Turning Point USA, which is a youth organization where he's tried to galvanize thousands of voters,
Republican voters. He's also a controversial figure at times. He goes into these various
college campuses, pushes conservative issues, gets into back -- and heated back and forth often with these students on these college campuses. But, of
course, none of that is violent. This is the first time we've seen this kind of reaction, obviously.
So what we know right now, everyone is monitoring the situation. He was shot during this event on this Utah campus, and they are still unclear what
exactly the extent of those injuries is. There are a lot of videos circulating right now on social media that are showing the crowds running
away after gunshots went off. But again, we are still going through all of this and talking to sources to figure out what exactly happened and how
Kirk is doing at this time.
SANCHEZ: Kristen, please stand by. David, as we work to confirm some of these videos that are circulating online, and we try to get an awareness of
the status of Kirk's health, it's important to step back and point out the impact that he's had in recent years on politics, and certainly
conservative politics. He's turned this sort of grassroots organization, Turning Points USA, into a juggernaut when it comes to connecting youth
conservatives and the conservative agenda on college campuses.
DAVID CHALIAN, CNN WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF AND POLITICAL DIRECTOR AND HOST, "CNN POLITICAL BRIEFING" PODCAST: Without a doubt. I mean, first, let me
say my prayers are with Charlie Kirk right now, and I'm sure everybody watching feels the same. This is horrific to see what we're seeing here.
You couldn't be more spot on, Boris. I can't sort of understate what Charlie Kirk has done inside the Republican Party as a force, especially
around mobilizing younger voters. That's sort of how TPUSA first got its movement. But he is a talk radio host on conservative radio. He's the
organizer -- does a ton of speaking publicly around the country. You can't go to any kind of sort of convening -- big convening of Republicans, and he
is not a force there with an enormous following.
In fact, I was looking on social media, on Twitter at 2:24, so not even 30 minutes ago, 29 minutes ago, he had posted images of himself before this
huge crowd at Utah Valley University there outside of Provo. And he said, we're so back. You could see there was enthusiasm. He was passing hats
around. You can watch them on video. This is just -- this was posted half an hour ago of him doing that and greeting this crowd.
He is somebody that the Trump campaign, as Kristen was noting, utilized very effectively to harness his leadership in this conservative activist
movement, again, with young people, young men specifically. We've talked about this a lot when we look back. Charlie Clark is the heart of that
effort. They relied on him and his organization a lot for their ground game in a lot of the states around the country.
And so, this is somebody who obviously has a huge voice inside conservative American politics, a big Trump supporter. But obviously now, in this really
unfortunate, horrific experience, is going to be at the center of a conversation about political violence, I would imagine, that we're going to
be having in the aftermath of this horrific event.
[14:55:00]
KEILAR: Certainly, and there's a lot of reason to be concerned right now, as we do not know. his status. We don't know how he's doing, and we're
awaiting word, certainly, of that. As you mentioned, it says a lot about where we are as a nation when it comes to violence and politics. Can you
talk a little bit about what he was doing in Utah? He was going to universities to speak to young people.
CHALIAN: Yes, and organizing them. And again, that's why I was literally, you can just bring it up from his Twitter page a little while ago, you can
see it's not just like sometimes you might go to an event at a college campus and it's a smattering of people in it. That is not what Charlie Kirk
brings. He has a following and an energy around him with young people.
And so, yes, he is on college campuses quite often all around the country doing this kind of political organizing. In addition to his sort of
speaking at places like CPAC or other big events. He is big on college campuses and as I was saying, the Trump campaign has harnessed him into his
network of followers in terms of their ground game operation in this last campaign. It was fundamental to their success.
SANCHEZ: And to that point, he spoke at the RNC in 2024, and we just saw a tweet put out by J.D. Vance, the Vice President, saying, quote, Say a
prayer for Charlie Kirk, a genuinely good guy and a young father.
I believe that we're joined now by CNN senior law enforcement analyst Charles Ramsey. And actually, before we get to Chief Ramsey, here's a post
from FBI director Kash Patel.
We're closely monitoring reports of the tragic shooting involving Charlie Kirk at Utah Valley University. Our thoughts are with Charlie, his loved
ones, and everyone affected. Agents will be on the scene quickly, and the FBI stands in full support of the ongoing response and investigation.
Chief Ramsey, I wonder if you can paint for us a picture of what an investigation like this, one, as you just saw there from the FBI director,
to which agents are just responding on a college campus at an event where it appears that Kirk was surrounded by a multitude of attendance.
CHARLES RAMSEY, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, obviously, there's a lot we don't know yet. This just occurred. But they would do
everything they can to contain the scene. The shooter may very well be someone who is being held by other members in the crowd. We don't know
that. Hopefully, his injuries are not too severe. So I'm certainly hoping that that's the case.
But right now, it's a case where they're going to bring in resources to do what they can. It was a large gathering on a college campuses -- on a
college campus. So no doubt you have a lot of witnesses that need to be interviewed, but you have a crime scene now and that crime scene has to be
protected. That crime scene has to be processed. So all the things that you would typically do in any shooting incident you would be doing right now.
He's a very high profile individual, so it's certainly going to draw a lot of attention.
KEILAR: And chief, can you talk a little bit about what security would be like at an event like this on a college campus? I mean, he is, you know,
he's not a politician, right? But he's someone who is so adjacent to some of the biggest names here in Washington. And we have seen this uptick in
political violence. What would security be like, would you expect?
RAMSEY: Well, he's not an elected official, and unless there were direct threats made to him, you know, security would be there, but on a college
campus with a large crowd, very difficult and people would not be screened before they went to the event. So I'm sure there was not only university
police, but probably from their county sheriff or local police that were present on the scene.
But when you have a large gathering like that, and again, he's a controversial and high profile individual, but he would not get the same
kind of screening that a president would get, a vice president would get, or some other elected official. So again, I haven't seen the scene, so it's
very difficult to kind of assess, but I would imagine and obviously someone was able to get close enough with a gun and whether it was a rifle, was it
a handgun, plus the distance? I mean, they're just a lot of unanswered questions right now.
SANCHEZ: It's also notable that he hosts, as part of many of the events that he has, these debates with folks that come, college students and
others who come as part of a crowd, and he hosts debates with them at close proximity. We don't know that that's exactly what happened here, but it is
notable, given what you were just describing, Chief Ramsey, as the setting for these events.
We also have a statement put out by California Governor Gavin Newsom now, who interviewed Kirk on his podcast back in March of this year. He says the
attack on Charlie Kirk Is disgusting, vile, and reprehensible. And the United States of America, we must --
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:00:00]
END
