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Isa Soares Tonight
NATO Reinforces The Defense Of Its Eastern Flank After Russia's Drone Incursion Into Poland; Charlie Kirk Killing Suspect Arrested; U.N. General Assembly Backs A Two-State Solution Free Of Hamas-Rule For Israel And Palestine; 22-Year-Old Suspect In Custody In Charlie Kirk Shooting; Brazil's Former President Sentenced 27-Plus Years In Prison; South Korean Workers Detained By ICE Arrive Home; Wagashi Master Inspired By Japan's 72 Subtle Shifts In Nature. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired September 12, 2025 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00]
ISA SOARES, HOST, ISA SOARES TONIGHT: A very warm welcome to the show, everyone, I'm Isa Soares. Tonight, NATO is reinforcing the defense of its
eastern flank after Russia's drone incursion into Poland. Much more on that developing story for you this hour. Then U.S. authorities name the suspect
in the Charlie Kirk shooting, 22-year-old Tyler Robinson. Have the details on his arrest just ahead for you.
Plus, Israel continues its assault on Gaza city, turning U.N. facility -- targeting U.N. facilities with Qatar's Prime Minister in Washington today,
could peace efforts be rejuvenated? That, and much more ahead. We begin right here in Europe with fresh developments aimed squarely at Moscow. NATO
chief Mark Rutte has unveiled a new mission designed to deter any more Russian drone incursions into NATO countries. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARK RUTTE, SECRETARY-GENERAL, NATO: NATO is launching Eastern Sentry to bolster our posture even further along our eastern flank. This military
activity will commence in the coming days and will involve a range of assets from allies including Denmark, France, United Kingdom, Germany and
others. In addition to more traditional military capabilities, this effort will also feature elements designed to address the particular challenges
associated with the use of drones.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Well, this comes, of course, just two days after Russia violated Poland's airspace in its war against Ukraine. And in the next hour for you,
the U.N. Security Council is expected to hold an emergency meeting on that Russian drone incursion. Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk has declared
that Wednesday's incursion was no mistake, and his comments coming after U.S. President Donald Trump suggested the airspace violation could have
been an accident.
Our Nick Paton Walsh joins me now for more. So Nick, bolstering their defense. How so? Just explain what that means in real terms.
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL SECURITY EDITOR: Yes, I mean we don't have the precise flight patterns or geographical intensity of all of this,
but NATO are saying this will start initially with a focus on Poland. They are outlining some of the assets involved, which include two F-16s from
Denmark and an anti-air frigate, three Rafale jets from France and four Eurofighters from Germany.
The U.K. also part of this as well. Now, we also know that Poland is putting in a kind of restriction on their airspace on that eastern border
that runs alongside Belarus and Ukraine, from which the now, we know over 20 drones would have flown. And NATO says that this operation, Eastern
Sentry-modeled, they say on Baltic Sentry, which was put in place after an alleged sabotage of undersea cables in the Baltic sea by those close to
Russia.
This is essentially an extension of that. Now, I should point out that this original incursion of drones was, in fact, tackled by a combination of
Polish F-16s and Dutch F-35 jets. So, there are a lot of NATO assets already on standby in this particularly sensitive area to tackle the
incursions that have been there in the past.
Remember, this is not the first time that we have seen Russian aircraft making incursions or fly close to NATO airspace, but it is the first time
we've seen something of this magnitude that has been shot down. More details we're learning, Isa, though, about that incursion involve it being
21 separate drones they believe were launched initially from Russia.
I understand that you can adapt some of the drones being used here, the Gebril Shahed-type drone can fly further with a bigger fuel tank if you
don't put explosives in it. And we understand that some of the drone debris found doesn't suggest necessarily they were carrying explosives. But the
outcome of this now is a lot of questions about whether this was an intentional Russian move.
Now, we've heard from President Trump saying that, you know, it could have been a mistake, I quote here, "but regardless, I'm not happy about having
anything to do with that whole situation, but hopefully it's going to come to an end." He has immediately seen a bit of a pushback from the Polish
Prime Minister Donald Tusk, somebody who, you know, he has been relatively close to saying they wish it was a mistake.
[14:05:00]
They believe this was intentional. I understand, you know, a lot of the jury is still out about trying to define Russian motives, a hard thing to
do. But ultimately, the logic here many say suggests that you don't fly over 20 drones simply through a common navigational error into a NATO
members airspace.
But that Trump statement doing an awful lot of work about how Trump really feels about this, trying to put it down to a Kremlin error, saying he's not
happy, but then also saying he's not happy about having anything to do it seems with this notion of bolstering European security.
And I think that may be, in the long run, what Moscow is aiming for. Trying to find a moment where the U.S. desire to honor its part in NATO is
diminished, and then testing their capacity to defend their airspace with this remarkable incursion, civilian homes damaged, Isa, let's not forget --
SOARES: Yes --
WALSH: And then now, NATO, moving forward with this response, a bid to show cohesion and upscale in their capabilities, how much it necessarily
changes, though, in terms of Moscow's thinking, we'll find out in the days and weeks ahead.
SOARES: Yes, and, you know, I was speaking to the Latvian President, Nick, just two days ago, and this is something that the President was calling
for. This is something that he wanted to see from NATO, they want to see stepped up -- something that as you have said to me before, they've all
been warning about. How do you think this will be received, this bolstering and the posture in the eastern flank? How do you think this will be
received by Moscow?
WALSH: Look, I mean, ultimately, Russia, I think everyone I've spoken to over the days on this thinks it's unlikely Russia won't try something like
this again. And the bigger question is how do you change their thinking? This may have been a probe designed to see how far they could potentially
get. What sensitive targets in Poland they might be able to fly near, and they may have felt they've seen some success.
I mean, what we're seeing here is a statement of extra defensive capability from NATO and extra unity, they say. But no actual response that might harm
Russia back. Not that any harm was necessarily caused to NATO member human civilians during this particular incursion. So, I think Russia will look at
this as possibly a lesser response from NATO.
They'll be very interested in exactly what Trump has said. He's been on "Fox News" this morning, in an appearance that made a lot of news, but also
part of that was saying that time is running out fast for Vladimir Putin, is running out very fast and suggesting that the next wave of sanctions,
which I should remind you, he said he put in place on Sunday or was ready to put in place on Sunday.
And we've seen no actual practical steps yet. He said the next sanctions might involve the Russian banking sector and more secondary tariffs on
those who buy Russian oil. But still, everybody you speak to is waiting for the White House to respond --
SOARES: Yes --
WALSH: This yet, another escalation over the past week. Remember, we had the attacks on Kyiv, a record assault against Ukraine, 24 pensioners killed
in a single airstrike in Yarova in Donetsk on Monday, and then Wednesday, the incursion against Poland. So, an exceptionally busy week in terms of
Russia moving forward with this aggressive posture, and still, I think many in Europe wondering quite when the White House steps in with a move --
SOARES: Yes --
WALSH: It's been advertising for weeks.
SOARES: Indeed. Ever shifting timelines and no follow-through. Nick, appreciate it, thank you very much. The words "we got him", those words
from Utah's governor after the arrest of the suspect in Charlie Kirk's assassination. The FBI says 22-year-old Tyler Robinson is now in custody,
being held without bail on multiple charges, including murder.
Sources say he's no longer speaking to investigators. Authorities say Robinson's father recognized him in the photos that were released by the
FBI, called a family friend, who then contacted authorities. Sources tell CNN, Robinson confessed to his father that he was the shooter. And here's
what we know right now about the suspect.
He is from a small suburb in southwest Utah. He had no political party affiliation and didn't vote in the last two presidential elections. But
according to a member of the suspect's family, things recently changed. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. SPENCER COX (R-UT): Investigators interviewed a family member of Robinson who stated that Robinson had become more political in recent
years. The family member referenced a recent incident in which Robinson came to dinner prior to September 10th, and in the conversation with
another family member, Robinson mentioned Charlie Kirk was coming to UVU.
They talked about why they didn't like him and the viewpoints that he had. The family member also stated Kirk was full of hate and spreading hate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Well, Ed Lavandera is in Spanish Fork, Utah, outside the county jail where 22-year-old suspect Tyler Robinson is being held. And he joins
us now. Ed, good to see you. From what I understand, he's being held where you are, not formally charged. Talk us through what the next steps are.
[14:10:00]
ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the process will be for him to make an appearance in court. That probably will not happen until
early next week as we continue to see things unfold. Investigators say here that they do intend, at least, on the state level, to pursue the death
penalty.
There also could be federal charges coming as early as today as well. So, we will continue to monitor that. But the significant thing here is that,
you know, this suspect, one of the 22-year-old suspect is in this jail being held as you mentioned without bail. So, no way to -- no way to get
out. And it's not clear if he is -- at what point he will be appointed an attorney.
So, we'll continue to monitor that as well. But this will -- according to the way Utah law is set up, the investigators and prosecutors have a number
of days before they have to file the official paperwork on these criminal charges. But preliminary -- preliminarily, he's being held on these murder
charges, a couple of other criminal charges as well that will keep him here in this jail for the time being.
SOARES: And Ed, do we know, is he speaking to authorities? Has he spoken? What are you hearing from inside?
LAVANDERA: Well, we've heard from two sources who say that the suspect was talking initially, but has since stopped talking. So, that's the latest
information we have on that. And, you know, we should also backtrack, and I think you kind of pointed this out that the suspect, at least, according to
what investigators are saying right now, that, that had essentially, in their view, confessed to a family member.
And it was that family member who reached out to another family friend who then made contact with law enforcement near the city of St. George, Utah,
which is in the southwest corner of the state. And that is what led authorities to identify the suspect, because just hours before all of that
unfolded, authorities here in Utah were having a press conference, releasing more videos and pictures of the suspects from video cameras and
security cameras on the Utah Valley University campus.
And it was very clear that they didn't really have any idea who this person was or where he might be, but it was after that last press conference last
night where things quickly changed.
SOARES: Ed, appreciate it, thank you very much indeed. Ed Lavandera there. I want to bring in CNN law enforcement analyst Jonathan Wackrow. Jonathan,
welcome to the show. We have received in the last, what? Three-four hours or so, pretty significant and detailed information, I think it's fair to
say from authorities.
From what you heard so far, are we beginning, Jonathan, to get a better understanding of a possible motive? Obviously, we have the casings, of
course, he said -- I think he said, "you fascist, catch one of those", and also what we're hearing from the family, those spreading hate, full of
hate. Is this providing a clearer image here in your view?
JONATHAN WACKROW, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, it is starting to, but I think it's really important to understand what this arrest actually
signifies right now and signals. And what it signals is that we're currently at the end of the emergent and critical response phase of this
incident. But this is where the hard work really begins.
And to your point, what investigators are really trying to build right now is the prosecutorial case against the suspect, and that does include,
really defining what is the motive, along with establishing verified timelines of his behavior and really confirming every item of evidentiary
value. But going back to what we do know.
So, what the governor has said and what your reporting is, has been since the arrest, is that we do see this progression towards violence by this
individual. We call it the pathway of violence, where typically it starts with some sort of grievance, that grievance actually manifests through
violent ideations in preparation and planning to launch an attack.
And what I have assessed is that this suspect, you know, really fits the exact model of the pathway to violence. And we see that from, you know,
inscriptions in ideological references on the bullet casings in his rifle. We have statements by family members that he was disgruntled and became
more angry.
And most notably, we have very concerning communication on the discord channel that was -- that's a digital communications platform that was
shared by the suspect's roommate to law enforcement, really centered around his actions in planning around the post -- you know, the post incident
activity of you know, what to do with his weapon and where he's going to stash it and how he's going to hide it.
So, again, all of this stuff, actually shows the real arc of who this individual is and what his motivations were. And more importantly, how he
planned and premeditated all of these actions.
SOARES: Such great points you have. Let me break it down further. First, I will go to the roommate in just a moment, because I do have a question on
that for you. But what you said, the pathway of violence, I think those were your words.
[14:15:00]
We know from court documents that he had no prior misdemeanor or felony convictions. How then do you build kind of that profile around this pathway
of violence that you're talking about? Was this done -- and when we're talking about motive here, was this done for power reasons, you think? Was
he radicalized? Just speak -- just explain that to viewers.
WACKROW: Yes, well, listen, you know, oftentimes, there are individuals who engage in the pathway of violence that do not have any type of criminal
pathway, but it doesn't mean that their behavior is changing. If you think about behavior, and behavior is on a continuum, and on the farthest extreme
of that continuum is actually the act of killing.
But before you actually do that, there are multiple red flags and warning signs. There are behavioral anomalies. There are, you know, key indicators
of, you know, potential stressors in somebody's life, influences that which could be ideologically based. You know, who is influencing this individual
either online or, you know, in person, that is, you know, fostering, you know, this hate and behavioral change in the -- in the shooter?
That then leads them to, you know, really making the decision to launch an attack, focus in on this one individual and ultimately take another human's
life.
SOARES: Yes, exactly. And Jonathan, i did say I would go back to the point that you were making over the discussions, the messages that have been
received that authorities were looking at. Now, we did hear from authorities today that they believe he acted alone, but a lot discussed, of
course, about these messages that Tyler exchanged with his roommate.
I think there was talk about retrieving a rifle, wrapping in a towel, all through, of course, the Discord chat, as you were saying. What one does --
what does that tell us about the planning? And two, does that -- do you have any questions about how much this roommate knew when, what role he
played here? He/she.
WACKROW: Yes, so, listen -- you know, what was stated was that, you know, he acted alone. So, the individual act of the assassination was
individualized. But what we don't know is the influence, and the influence --
SOARES: Yes --
WACKROW: That this shooter, you know, may have could be very broad. It could be influences from online chat rooms. You know, discussions on
Discord, in other, you know, digital forms as well as direct, you know, human intervention and human influence. That is what investigators are
looking at right now. But we do know from the reporting and from what, you know, has been, you know, stated by officials is that, you know, there are
these, you know -- you know, behavioral anomalies that were triggered by something.
Again, to your point earlier, you know, there was no criminal history. So, how did somebody with no criminal history in previous behavioral anomalies,
all of a sudden have such deep-rooted, grievance and hate is what I believe, you know, family members were saying, that drove him, you know, to
engage in such a -- you know, horrific act.
SOARES: Jonathan, really appreciate you standing by and talking us through all this information, of course, that we've been receiving, of course, from
law enforcement. Thank you, Jonathan.
WACKROW: Thanks --
SOARES: And still to come tonight, despite international pressure to end the war, Israel's relentless bombings in Gaza city have left 50,000 people
homeless in the past week alone. Plus, former Brazilian President Jair Bolsonaro faces more than 27 years in prison in a landmark case that has
divided Brazil. Those two stories after this very short break.
[14:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: The U.N. General Assembly has just overwhelmingly endorsed a two- state solution in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict over U.S. objections. It approved a declaration that calls for a Palestinian state free of Hamas
rule. And the declaration also urges collective action to end the war in Gaza. Qatar's Prime Minister told the U.N. Security Council yesterday that
his country will continue diplomatic efforts for a Gaza ceasefire despite an Israeli strike targeting Hamas negotiators in Doha this week.
Hamas says the negotiating team survived, but five Hamas members and a Qatari security official were killed. The Qatari Prime Minister is meeting
with Secretary of State Marco Rubio today and reportedly President Donald Trump as well. Of course, we'll stay across that for you. Well, the
Palestinian Authority calls the U.N. declaration an important step towards ending Israel's occupation.
But the U.S. and Israel are rejecting it as a stunt that undermines peace. While talking about peace, well, Israel is escalating war amid a worsening
famine. Gaza's civil defense says attacks on residential towers, as well as other buildings in Gaza city have left more than 50,000 people homeless,
and that is just this week alone.
But as devastating as these attacks are, satellite images show the vast majority of destruction has been caused by Israel's military going block-
by-block with bulldozers carrying out demolitions. Our Jeremy Diamond has more for you.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is Gaza from above. In early August, CNN joined the Jordanian military on a cargo
flight, delivering aid to starving Palestinians. The scale of the destruction hard to grasp. And yet, Gaza city has been one of the areas
least scarred by Israel's two-year war.
The Z-2 neighborhood, for example, was largely still intact, as also seen in this satellite imagery at the time. One month later, the area has been
leveled. For schools, dozens of businesses and hundreds of homes destroyed. This is the damage wrought by the opening moves of Israel's invasion of
Gaza city, which the government announced days after CNN flew over the Strip.
The initial assault has also pummeled Jabalya on the northern outskirts of the city, where more than 750 buildings have been destroyed. All told, in
the months since approving their plan to invade Gaza city, Israel has damaged or destroyed more than 1,800 buildings, according to a CNN analysis
of satellite imagery.
Tent camps at Gaza city's perimeter emptied out, forcing displaced Palestinians to be displaced once again into ever more crowded tent cities
as the threat of an Israeli invasion looms. Many more began to flee on Tuesday after the Israeli military ordered all Palestinians to leave Gaza
city ahead of a major expanded offensive.
Israel's assault continues as intended, striking multiple high-rise buildings that the military says are used by Hamas as terrorist
infrastructure without providing evidence. But on the ground, thousands of Palestinians sheltering around them are suffering.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): We were having a bite to eat underneath the building, until suddenly, we saw people fleeing from inside.
No one warned us or told us to take our belongings. We only carried our children and sat on the adjacent street. A little while later, they struck
the building. We came back to find that everything was gone. There's nothing left.
[14:25:00]
DIAMOND: These large scale demolitions of entire neighborhoods in Gaza rendering already fragile lives unlivable, and offering a glimpse into the
ruin that may lie ahead. Jeremy Diamond, CNN, Jerusalem.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOARES: And still to come tonight, a suspect has been identified in the fatal shooting of conservative activist Charlie Kirk, and is now in
custody. We'll have the latest. Plus, what the governor of Utah is asking people to do. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: Welcome back, everyone. We return now to our top story. NATO is beefing up the defense of Europe's eastern flank. It's taking action after
a Russian drone incursion into Polish airspace. If you remember this week, Poland says there were 19 intrusions of the country's airspace on
Wednesday, and that it wasn't a mistake.
We're joined now by Fabrice Pothier; former director of Policy Planning at NATO and the CEO of the political consultancy Rasmussen Global. He is in
Kyiv for us, in Ukraine this hour. Fabrice, great to see you once again, great to have you back on the show.
FABRICE POTHIER, CEO, RASMUSSEN GLOBAL: Nice to see you.
SOARES: Let's talk about this latest developments that we are seeing, of course, being announced from NATO, clearly bulking up their eastern front
in both land, I understand and air. What more can you tell us about who is taking part? The numbers, what this means, Fabrice, in real terms?
POTHIER: Well, I think here, the key word is activity. NATO basically has just agreed to initiate an activity which is actually the lightest version
of what NATO can do in situation of crisis. Typically, you have activity, then you have mission, and then you have a much larger scale engagement
cooperation. So, we are looking here at something light that would be punctual and quite discretionary to whatever the NATO member states
consider is necessary.
[14:30:33]
I think they keep on purpose some degree of ambiguity not to obviously signal clearly to Russia what kind of technology and weapon systems would
be used, and that's fair. But I think the scale is not managing really the challenge because this is the 10 times we are seeing an incursion in NATO
aerospace. It is true that it is the largest one, the biggest scale, but I think it's 10 times. And the fact that 10 times later we're just launching
an activity I think sounds a bit light.
SOARES: And on that, I think it's really important just picking up with what you said to give our viewers some context. And we have heard from the
NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte on this, to your point, that it's not -- this wasn't isolated. Let's play this and we pick up off the end. Have a
listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARK RUTTE, SECRETARY GENERAL, NATO: What happened on Wednesday was not an isolated incident. Russia's recklessness in the air along our eastern flank
is increasing in frequency. We've seen drones violate our airspace in Romania, Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania. Whether intentional or not, it is
dangerous and unacceptable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: We'll talk about the whether intentional or not in in just a moment because clearly there's different points of view here. But let me just pick
up with what he said, Russia's recklessness is increasing in frequency. Given that then, and given what you've said, why then go for a light
activity? What do they get out of this?
POTHIER: I think one thing that is important to understand is whether this was intentional or not from Russia, I think they can draw some very useful
conclusions. First, our response was disproportionate because we use extremely expensive weapons systems and combat aircraft to shoot down some
fairly cheap drones. Second, it took us a while to agree on a kind of political common message. And third, the response is quite light. And
fourth, and this is the most important, we keep on drawing a thick line in the sand between NATO and Ukraine.
Even though actually the situation is coming from the fact that Russia is prosecuting a major war on the Ukrainian territory. And unless we are
willing to step in and to push back where Ukraine -- where Russia is fighting, we will still have problems in in NATO's territory. So, the fact
that we are constantly boxing ourselves in our own kind of territory and not being willing to actually expand, why don't we expand, for example, the
NATO air defense range to western Ukraine. There's a very good moral and legal argument to do so saying we need to prevent future incursions and yet
we're not doing so.
So, I think this is for Moscow. This is drawing a conclusion that we are still always behind Moscow's escalation and are willing to take more risks.
SOARES: Yes. Answer then that question that you posed yourself. Why are we boxing European NATO themselves? Why are they boxing themselves in? And if
this supposed to be a message or to try and rattle Russia to show unity to stop it from doing it again? Does this have that desired effect you think?
POTHIER: I think there's always this fear of escalation, this fear of introducing NATO in Russia's war in Ukraine, which is what actually Putin
has put in our heads. So, we are constantly self-editing our own decisions. But the reality quite frankly I think this could be counterbalanced by some
better decisions, such as I mentioned, extending the NATO air defense range to western Ukraine and in parallel -- not NATO initiative but in parallel,
giving the Ukrainians the means to target deep into the Russian territory going after these giga factories that are producing those Shahed drones.
SOARES: Yes. You don't sound impress, Fabrice, with this activity. That's certain. I'm sure many of some of the Eastern European countries won't
either. I know from the Latvian president was calling for strengthening of the eastern flank. We'll obviously have to catch up to see whether this
suffices.
Thank you very much Fabrice. Good to see you. Fabrice Pothier there for us in Kyiv.
[14:35:03]
POTHIER: Pleasure.
SOARES: Thank you.
A busy hour. We continue of course, to follow two breaking news stories, not just NATO's posturing there and strengthening on the eastern flank, but
we continue following news, of course, for you out of Utah, where a suspect has been arrested in the murder of conservative political activist Charlie
Kirk. 22-year-old Tyler Robinson has been taken into custody. And family members said he had become more political in recent years.
During a news conference, the Governor of Utah spoke out about the political division in the United States, and he encouraged people to get to
know their neighbors in person and not form judgments online. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. SPENCER COX (R-UT): This is not good for us. It is not good to consume. Social media is a cancer on our society right now. And I would
encourage -- again I would encourage people to log off, turn off, touch grass, hug a family member, go out and do good in your community.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Such an important message. He also said a watershed in American history. That's -- those words coming from the Utah governor in comparing
this moment to the political as well as cultural upheaval of the late 1960s.
Well, the White House is taking extra security precautions to protect President Trump. He was originally going to spend the weekend at Trump
Tower in New York, but now plans to head to his Bedminster, New Jersey golf club. That facility is considered extremely secure. I want to bring in our
Senior White House Correspondent, Kristen Holmes.
And Kristen, security, as we laid out, clearly being stepped up. And I imagine it's not just the president's team that is on edge, but also the
political elite too. Just speak to this climate right now that we are seeing in Washington and across the country.
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. And we know that for a fact. We know that lawmakers are on edge. We saw a fighting,
screaming match break out on Capitol Hill between lawmakers shortly after Charlie Kirk was murdered. We also know that there have been a number of
lawmakers who are considering getting extra security, who have talked to leadership on Capitol Hill about what they should be doing. Should they be
putting more funds towards this?
A lot of questions from these lawmakers as to whether or not they should still be having political events. Even though this person was arrested and
eventually found and arrested, there are still a lot of fear out there, particularly as we've seen this escalation in political violence.
Now, President Trump, while you heard from the governor there of Utah asking for everyone to dial it down, President Trump himself blame the
radical left. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What do we do about our country with that? Because we have radicals on the right as well. We have radicals on the left. How do we
come back together?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'll tell you something that's going to get me in trouble, but I couldn't care less. The radicals
on the right often times are radical because they don't want to see crime. They don't want to see crime.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Worried about the border.
TRUMP: They're saying, we don't want these people coming in. We don't want you burning our shopping centers. We don't want you shooting our people in
the middle of the street. The radicals on the left are the problem and they're vicious and they're horrible.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: So, clearly, they're pointing the finger at the Democrats or as he says radicals on the left. The question, of course, is what happens in the
coming days, months, weeks? How does this change Washington and the way that people deal with each other? And it's just not really clear right now.
You're seeing some people take this approach of blaming the left, saying that we're at war. You're seeing others asking for decency, asking for
everyone to cool down with the rhetoric.
I do think one thing should be made clear. Charlie Kirk was incredibly close to this administration, to many Republicans on both sides of what the
argument I just made. There is a lot of anger still and a lot of grief that is happening. But really the most important thing we're watching is to see
how these people take this and move forward with it. Do they continue to be angry or do they try to change this into something that helps the country
recover?
SOARES: .And just picking up from what the President said, is -- are those words, is this a sort of response you're getting from other members of the
administration? Because we heard obviously from the governor of Utah who try to calm tempers somewhat saying, you know, encouraging people to know
their neighbors in person, not form judgments online. Is there still a grieving process, a lot of anger you're feeling from that -- in the White
House behind you?
HOLMES: I would say that yesterday and today there is a lot of anger. Today less so than yesterday. The day before was extreme sadness, devastation.
There is a lot of working through the grief of what happened. I think one of the things that we often talk about was how everyone in Trump's orbit
was really shaken after the assassination attempt in Butler. This almost shook people further. And there might be the explanation that in the back
of your mind, you always know that a President of the United States could be a target. Most people did not think of Charlie Kirk as an actual target,
somebody who could actually get killed, let alone get killed, gunned down in the middle of broad daylight while he was doing the thing he loved and
while he was working essentially. So, this has really changed the dynamic and that's why you're seeing people ask for more security or seeing people
look over their shoulder a little bit more right now.
So, yes, we are hearing a lot of anger, but I also think that this is still very fresh. Now they have caught the person and now is the time that we see
what happens next. And I can't answer how they're going to react, but I think that this is really the time where we see the change or not.
[14:40:33]
SOARES: Yes. Kristen, I appreciate it. Thank you very much indeed.
And still to come tonight right here on the show, Brazil's former president Jair Bolsonaro faces more than 27 years in prison for plotting a military
coup. So where does his conviction leave democracy in Brazil? Very big question. We'll try to get to the bottom of that.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: Brazil's former president, Jair Bolsonaro, faces more than 27 years in prison after being convicted of plotting a failed coup. He was found
guilty of attempting to cling on to power following his 2022 election defeat. Prosecutors say that included plans to assassinate his opponent,
current president, Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva. And this video shows the moment rioters launched their attempted coup in Brasilia in 2023.
Four out of five justices on a Brazilian Supreme Court panel voted to convict the former leader in the landmark case. Defense lawyers for
Bolsonaro have now have a chance to appeal. The case drove a wedge through Brazilian society between those who on the left who saw as a crucial test
of the country's democracy and many on the right who dubbed it "a witch hunt."
Brazilians remain divided over the historic conviction. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): We are here today in Brasilia to express our sense of justice over Bolsonaro's conviction. This is a feeling
of patriotism towards our country from those who truly defend Brazilian democracy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): I think the condemnation is shameful to be quite honest. I think it's unfair.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Stefano Pozzebon has been covering Bolsonaro's trial. Some two voices there, Stefano, clearly divided. But it was interesting what we
heard from one of the justice, one of the strongest justice that we know, of course, who said yesterday, Alexandre de Moraes, he said he -- talking
about Bolsonaro, he tried to annihilate the essential pillars of the democratic rule of law state, the greatest cons of which would have been
the return of dictatorship to Brazil. And that would have shaken Brazilians to the very core. Stefano.
[14:45:12]
STEFANO POZZEBON, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes, Isa. I mean, it's been less than 24 hours since the former Brazilian president has been convicted, found guilty
of attempting a coup d'etat, and being sentenced to almost three decades in prison. And already that sentence is being hailed as a historic one. It's
making history.
Another of the justices that we heard from yesterday was the Justice Carmen Lucia Antunes who was the one who cast the decisive votes to convict
Bolsonaro, the third vote out of a five-person majority. And I also have some words from her. She said that nowhere in the world, no place on earth
has complete immunity against the virus of authoritarianism that creeps in insidiously distilling its poison to contaminate freedom and human rights.
Perhaps it's also worth taking a moment and posing and understanding how close Brazilian democracy went to be overthrown by that violent attempt of
a coup d'etat from Bolsonaro and seven others former members of his cabinet including four retired general.
Moving forward, of course, I think there are two outstanding question. The number one is how will Donald Trump, how will the White House react? We
have seen in the past that Donald Trump did not shy away from imposing sanctions against Brazilian exports to the United States, 50 percent
tariffs against those exports in retaliation for what he calls a witch hunt. Of course, two of them, Bolsonaro and Trump, are really close. They
were enjoying a positive relationship when they were both serving the country as president. During Donald Trump's first mandated, they are shared
--- the members of the same political right-wing populism that we're seeing taking more and more support in recent years. So, that is one aspect of
this story we're very closely tracking.
The second aspect of the story is will this sentence spell the end for Bolsonarismo? Will this sentence spell the end for right-wing populism in
Brazil? Or who will be there to pick up the baton? The legacy of Jair Bolsonaro given that now even if his appeal is successful, he is still
barred from serving and competing for public offices.
Among the people who are rumored to be running in next year's election would be Tarcisio de Freitas, who was the former infrastructure minister,
but also Bolsonaro's own wife, Michelle Bolsonaro. And we've seen in the past that Latin American countries have a feeling for the wives or the
spouses of former heads of state to run in their behalf. Of course, Evita Peron as we know it everywhere in the world.
SOARES: Yes. And as Bolsonaro said, he expects the U.S. to apply further sanctions against officials to which the Brazilian foreign minister
replied, just to give some context for our viewers here, he replied on foreign minister on X saying threats like those made today by the U.S.
Secretary of State Marco Rubio will not intimidate our democracy. So, that relation for us to keep our eye on, of course, as you clearly stated there.
POZZEBON: Absolutely.
SOARES: Stefano, thank you very much indeed.
After a week of fear and confusion, more than 300 South Koreans who had been detained by U.S. immigration officials arrived back home earlier
today. They were rounded up at a Hyundai, LG vehicle battery plant in the U.S. state of Georgia. U.S. officials say many of them entered the U.S.
illegally or overstayed their visas, but some of their lawyers insist they were legally working at the site.
Our Mark Valeria was at the airport when the South Koreans arrived back in the country, and he filed this report from Incheon in South Korea.
MIKE VALERIO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it was quite emotional for so many who were gathered here at Incheon International Airport, seeing not one,
not two, but more than 300 -- 316 former ICE detainees being flown in from Georgia back home here in South Korea. We should tell you, when you're
looking at this video, so much of it has been blurred out of privacy concerns. Privacy regulations laws quite strict here in South Korea, and
none of these people have been charged with crimes.
So, the question now moves to how could this be prevented in the future for any South Korean company that has investments, big projects in the United
States right now or is planning to do so? What will change to avoid any kind of visa confusion, mix-up, or this visa situation that has befallen
more than 300 people impacting them in myriad ways?
You know, South Korea's president actually spoke to that. Let's listen to what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEE JAE MYUNG, PRESIDENT, SOUTH KOREA (through translator): From the perspective of companies, they will be concerned about disadvantageous
treatment or facing difficulties when they're building factories in the United States. That could probably have a significant impact on direct
investment in the U.S. in the future.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[14:50:11]
VALERIO: So, we should show you before the 316 former detainees came through the arrival doors, this banner was put up, almost twice as tall as
I am, with the words in English, "We're friends, aren't we?" with a figure dressed in black, the letters I-C-E -- ICE across the chest, chains around
one shoulder, an assault style weapon, and a smiling mask of U.S. President Donald Trump. Certainly indicative of a strain of outcry when we're talking
about the emotional reactions that have been befallen this country over the past week.
So, in terms of what changes, South Korea's president has talked about perhaps things in motion to increase the visa quotas between the United
States and South Korea, perhaps create a new class or category of visas for businesses that are investing in the United States. Again, all with the
goal of making sure what we saw a few days ago does not happen again.
Mike Valerio, CNN, Incheon, South Korea.
SOARES: We'll be back after this very short break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: Well, in Japan, the passage of time is marked by 72 subtle shifts in nature instead of the four seasons we see here in the U.K. Seasons host,
Hikari Mori, explores how traditional Japanese confections are crafted to reflect the beauty of each fleeting moment.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HIKARI MORI, HOST, SEASONS (voice-over): In Japan, there aren't four seasons. There are 72, each lasting about five days. Subtle shifts that in
the hands of one artisan become something far sweeter.
CHIKARA MIZUKAMI, WAGASHI MASTER (text): If you take the seasons out of Japanese confections, there's nothing left. Within each season, there are
embedded beliefs and Japanese people express those through many forms. Wagashi is no exception.
MORI (voice-over): Chikara Mizukami is a fourth-generation Wagashi master, a true craftsman who has turned his love for traditional sweets into an art
form.
[14:55:06]
MORI: Wow. Very detailed.
MIZUKAMI (text): The reason this part is sunken in is because the gods made it that way for Wagashi artisans.
MORI: Our hands are made to make Wagashi.
MORI (voice-over): For centuries, Wagashi have evolved in harmony with the seasons. Each piece crafted to capture the fleeting beauty of nature.
MORI: He uses this Japanese calendar to create his Wagashi. His inspiration comes from poems and seasonal flowers, botanicals, and animals.
MORI (voice-over): In Chikara's hand, simple bean paste is shaped into the delicate leaves and petals of a paulownia, or another shiko, a flower that
symbolizes femininity.
MORI: This is almost too beautiful to eat. It's not too sweet. And it has this gentle flavor.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOARES: And that does it for us for tonight. A sweet ending just for you. Do stay right here. "WHAT WE KNOW" is up next. Have a wonderful weekend. I
shall see you on Monday, of course.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
