Return to Transcripts main page
Isa Soares Tonight
U.S. Late-Night TV Host Jimmy Kimmel Suspended Over Comments About Charlie Kirk; President Trump Cites Russia-Ukraine War Won't Be Easy to End During U.K. Visit; Hundreds of Thousands Take to the Streets of France As Demonstrations Against Austerity Measures Turn Violent. Unions Strike Against Proposed Budget Cuts; PM Lecornu Tackles Growing Deficit; Israeli Minister Suggest Gaza "Real Estate Bonanza"; Gaza City Assault Means Hostages Will Never Return Says Hamas; Antifa to Become a Terrorist Organization. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired September 18, 2025 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00]
ISA SOARES, HOST, ISA SOARES TONIGHT: A very warm welcome to the show, everyone, I'm Isa Soares. Tonight, a war on media. U.S. late-night host
Jimmy Kimmel suspended over comments about Charlie Kirk. Just the latest in a string of concerning crackdowns on free speech in the United States.
Plus, Putin let me down. Those are the words from President Trump as he met with British Prime Minister Keir Starmer. U.S. President admitting the war
in Ukraine won't be easy to end. And hundreds of thousands take to the streets of France as demonstrations against austerity measures turn violent
in some areas.
We're live for you in Paris this hour with the very latest. But we begin tonight with "ABC's" stunning decision to suspend Jimmy Kimmel's late-night
talk show. The controversy surrounding outraging, I should say, advocates of free speech and receiving praise from U.S. President Donald Trump.
Let's put it into context for you. In Monday's show, Kimmel suggested the suspect in Charlie Kirk's murder was a MAGA supporter. He also criticized
what he perceives as the right-wing media's attempts to capitalize on the assassination. Just listen to it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIMMY KIMMEL, COMEDIAN & TELEVISION HOST: We hit some new lows over the weekend with the MAGA gang desperately trying to characterize this kid who
murdered Charlie Kirk as anything other than one of them, and doing everything they can to score political points from it.
In-between the finger-pointing, there was grieving. On Friday, the White House flew the flags at half staff, which got some criticism. But on a
human level, you can see how hard the President is taking this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My condolences on the loss of your friend Charlie Kirk. May I ask, sir, personally, how are you holding up over the last day-and-a-
half, sir?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think very good -- and by the way, right there, you see all the trucks, they've just started
construction of the new ballroom for the White House, which is something they've been trying to get, as you know, for about 150 years. And it's
going to be a beauty.
(LAUGHTER)
KIMMEL: Yes. OK. He's at the fourth stage of grief construction.
(LAUGHTER)
(APPLAUSE)
KIMMEL: Demolition, construction. This is not how an adult grieves the murder of someone he called a friend. This is how a four-year-old mourns a
goldfish, OK?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Well, on Wednesday, FCC Chair Brendan Carr threatened "ABC" and its affiliates over the show, implying public broadcast licenses could be at
risk -- at risk. Hours later, "Jimmy Kimmel Live" was pulled off the air indefinitely. Today, during his news conference with British Prime Minister
Keir Starmer, President Trump responded to Kimmel's ousting.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Jimmy Kimmel was fired because he had bad ratings more than anything else, and he said a horrible thing about a great gentleman known as Charlie
Kirk. And Jimmy Kimmel is not a talented person. He had very bad ratings, and they should have fired him a long time ago. So, you know, you can call
that free speech or not, he was fired for lack of talent.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: It is worth noting, and you can see on your screen that shortly after Charlie Kirk's assassination, Kimmel posted this. "Instead of the
angry finger-pointing, can we just for one day agree that it is horrible and monstrous to shoot another human. On behalf of my family, we send love
to the Kirks".
But there is much more to this story that meets the eye. My colleague Jake Tapper follows the money at play here.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: How do we make sense of the fact that late-night host Jimmy Kimmel indefinitely lost his show because of comments he made
Monday night, in which he said that the MAGA gang was really trying hard to prove that Charlie Kirk's assassin was not one of theirs, so that they
could score political points.
That's what he said. Well, follow the money. In August, "Nexstar", the largest owner of TV stations, local TV stations in the country, announced
that they wanted to purchase their rival "Tegna" for more than $6 billion. Now, in order for that deal to go through, "Nexstar" would need the
approval of the Federal Communications Commission, and in fact, they would need the FCC to lift the cap, 39 percent cap that the FCC has, which is a
rule that states no company can own enough TV stations to reach more than 39 percent of the households in the United States.
[14:05:00]
And this deal going through would violate that cap. The current Chair of the FCC, Brendan Carr, he earlier this year said that he would be willing
to entertain lifting what he called arcane artificial limits on how many TV stations any one company can own. OK, so, that's where we are. "Nexstar"
wanting to get the FCC's approval, the FCC Commissioner making it clear that his mind is open.
Today, Wednesday, the FCC Commissioner goes on a podcast, a MAGA podcaster, and makes it very clear that he did not like the comments that Jimmy Kimmel
made on Monday night. And he calls Kimmel talentless. And then he says that it's not just time for Disney to see some change here. "Disney" owns
"ABC", but quote, "the individual licensed stations that are taking "ABC's" content.
It's time for them to step up and say this garbage to the extent that that's what comes down the pipe in the future isn't something that we think
serves the needs of our local community. So, he's calling on local TV stations to reject the Jimmy Kimmel show. That was posted on Twitter or X
at 1:01 p.m. Wednesday.
Within hours, "Nexstar" makes the announcement that the company's owned and partnered television stations affiliated with "ABC" will preempt Jimmy
Kimmel because they object to recent comments made by Kimmel, and then shortly after that, "ABC" television network announced that they were
suspending Kimmel's show.
And so, while there are no doubt people who are legitimately offended by what Kimmel said, and no doubt tensions are high and feelings are fraught,
there is also a lot of money to be made, and there are also a lot of people who want to endear themselves to the FCC, commissioner and President Trump.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: And our thanks to my colleague Jake Tapper there. Well, Democratic lawmakers are calling for the FCC chair to resign and accused the U.S.
President of starting a, quote, "war on the First Amendment", the constitutional clause that protects the right to free speech. On X,
Democratic Senator, Adam Schiff, references similar controversies, you can see that, Kimmel, Colbert, suits against the "New York Times", "Wall Street
Journal", "60 Minutes" involving really the Trump administration and media outlets in the U.S.
For example, when the "Associated Press" was briefly blocked from accessing the White House. The senator, suspecting Stephen Colbert's late night show,
was also canceled because of political pressure. So, let's dive right in and try to make sense of what is happening for our viewers right around the
world.
Our Brian Stelter is here to help us make sense of it. Brian, really good to see you. You had -- you probably heard there, Jake Tapper really
following the money. How much influence, Brian, do you think that these two large stations, you know, "Nexstar" and "Sinclair", having -- pulling
Kimmel's show from its "ABC" stations. How much is this money talking here?
BRIAN STELTER, CNN MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: These companies were the key to the story. You know, "Disney's" "ABC" has been proud of Kimmel's show for
years. You know, Kimmel is one of the faces of the network. And "Disney" CEO Bob Iger, he's no MAGA media soldier. You know, he thought about
running for President in the past, and he would have been running as a Democrat.
So, it is not as if "Disney" as "ABC" is somehow looking for excuses to roll over and fall in line and capitulate in front of President Trump. But
"Disney's" "ABC" has to think about its station relationships. And, you know, the reality is that in the U.S., most of the "ABC" affiliated
stations are not owned by "Disney". They're owned by other companies like "Nexstar" and "Sinclair".
So, that is why what Tapper described is the crucial part of the story. Both "Nexstar" and "Sinclair" have lots of pending business before the
government, and especially "Nexstar", right? Because of that merger that he described, "Nexstar" is desperate to get Trump administration to approve
the merger and to lift the ownership cap.
That is the most important thing at that company for this entire decade. So, it is very clear what the incentives are, right? To try to curry favor
with the Trump administration, to try to appeal to Brendan Carr; the FCC Chairman, that's exactly what we saw happen this time yesterday. And it is
directly why "Disney" basically had to pull Kimmel's show.
Because if you think about it, Kimmel's show was going to be preempted in parts of the country because these local stations were refusing to air it.
So, "ABC" decided to take a break, take a beat, take the show off the air for the time being, and try to figure out a way forward for the show. But
here we are, almost 24 hours later, we've heard nothing from "ABC" and nothing from Kimmel. And it seems to me it would be very hard to bring him
back on the airwaves at this point.
SOARES: I mean, would he even want to come back on? That's the other question.
STELTER: Right.
SOARES: Right?
STELTER: And that's a great unknown --
SOARES: That's another --
STELTER: Right now. But maybe it's telling, maybe it's revealing that Kimmel has not said anything yet.
SOARES: Yes --
STELTER: You know, he's got his Instagram page, he's got his X account, he could weigh in at any given time.
SOARES: Yes --
STELTER: I suspect there are some very awkward, very tense negotiations --
SOARES: Yes --
[14:10:00]
STELTER: Taking place behind the scenes, because like I said, "Disney", you know, was not looking for a reason to cut ties with Kimmel. But I should
also acknowledge "Disney" is aware of this fraught political environment. Kimmel's contract was coming due in a few months, there had been
speculation about what "ABC" would do.
There had been speculation about whether Kimmel even wanted to stay. You know, President Trump has been very critical of Kimmel, and has basically
been out loud hoping that Kimmel will be the next to be fired.
SOARES: Yes --
STELTER: So, in this situation, at least for the moment, President Trump has had exactly what he wanted to have happen.
SOARES: And we saw that. We saw his reaction today at Chequers alongside the British Prime Minister. He was saying -- alongside Keir Starmer,
basically seeming to celebrate almost his dismissal and suggesting also, Brian, I thought interesting on X, that the other late-night show host, you
know, Jimmy Fallon, Seth Meyers, could be next.
I mean, this is worrying for free speech in America. It is, of course, as we said, enshrined in your First Amendment. How is this being received
where you are? Give us a sense of the reaction.
STELTER: Oh, we're talking about comedy here, but this is being taken very seriously. I have seen more strenuous, more serious stomper statements from
free speech groups about this case than I have about any during Trump's second term in office. You know, I've been trying to think about what the
media is going through in the U.S.
What is this free speech stress test that we're all experiencing in the U.S.? And I started to liken it to an elevator. It's like the American
media is on an elevator, and it keeps heading downward every day or every week, reaching a new lower floor.
Every time a media company gets sued by the President, every time, "CBS" or "ABC" or another company settles, instead of fighting that suit in court,
every time Trump threatens a license the way he did again this afternoon on the way home from the U.K., every level, it's another level lower on that
proverbial elevator.
And we don't know where the bottom is. We don't know how much worse this can get for a lot of comedians, for entertainers, seeing Kimmel sidelined
as a worst-case scenario. But Kimmel can go launch a YouTube livestream right now. He can go launch a new --
SOARES: Yes --
STELTER: Sub-stack newsletter. You know, he does have other options and other platforms. So, we have not reached whatever that bottom might be. But
certainly, there is a moment, I think, right now in the U.S., where people are looking around and wondering how much democratic backsliding is going
to be tolerated? How much more autocratic will this country become before some change happens?
SOARES: Yes --
STELTER: And that's one of the great unknowns right now.
SOARES: Do they keep going down, allowing it to go down, sinking lower and lower in that elevator you're saying? Do they get out? Do they protest?
This is very important. Very important time that we are seeing playing out in the United States, a very fraught political environment indeed. Brian,
as always, good to see you. Thank you very much.
Well, my next guest is Stephen Farnsworth, the coauthor of "Late Night with Trump: Political Humor and the American Presidency". Stephen, great to have
you on the show. I'm not sure if you heard my discussion there with Stephen -- with Brian -- our Brian Stelter. I wonder whether you feel that "ABC"
made the right call in putting -- in pulling Kimmel.
Are you surprised that we're even here? Given, of course, as Brian was saying, the climate, the political climate the industry is facing right
now.
STEPHEN FARNSWORTH, PROFESSOR OF POLITICAL SCIENCE, UNIVERSITY OF MARY WASHINGTON: Yes, this is a very difficult environment for mass media in
America. The situation with the "New York Times" and other media outlets that have been sued by the President has created a great deal of pressure.
When you're talking about television as we've just been discussing, there is a significant problem with respect to keeping in the good graces of the
Trump administration right now when you're asking for something.
Whether it's a renewal of a license or approval of a merger, you do not want to be opposed to the President, if that's going to mean losing the
opportunity to make even more money. So, when you're looking at this environment, it really is a very difficult environment for the media.
SOARES: Stephen, you've written extensively on late night comedy, you've studied it, and I think you could add a lot of perspective and insight here
to our viewers around the world. Of course, our jobs as journalists, as viewers will know, is to probe, is to ask uncomfortable or tough questions.
For comedians, I'm guessing it's to mark critique while employing laughter, right?
Often, politicians quite rightly feel their wrath. What role -- just explain to our viewers what role political humorists played in kind of late
night TV in the United States and in politics, U.S. politics?
FARNSWORTH: Well, absolutely. One of the things to remember about the United States is that we always like to see our leaders taken down a peg or
two. And political humor is one of the places where that happens. Mockery is not new to American humor.
[14:15:00]
It's not new to global humor. If you go back to the ancient Greeks, they were making fun of political leaders of their day. There is a great sense
of satisfaction, perhaps, of seeing those kinds of hypocrisy or inconsistency, that is the nature of politics in many instances, being
called out. And so, you are always going to be, as a political humorist, not well regarded by the people that you're mocking.
But what's different about this situation is twofold. One, there has been much more aggressive critical treatment of Donald Trump than other
Republican presidents or other Republican presidential candidates. The percentage during the last election cycles, much more pro -- much more
focused on Republicans in terms of the targets of humor than on Democrats.
And so, there is a very significant starting point for the political humor that it's going to be hostile to Republicans. There is conservative media
in the United States that's also building conservative political humor that's making fun of Democrats and of liberals. And so, there is an
environment really where America is polarized, even in the way we tell our jokes at night. It didn't used to be that way, but it is that way now.
SOARES: And give us a sense, Stephen, what it's like, you know, inside these writers' rooms when they're trying to decide how far -- exactly as
you were pointing out, how far to push the envelope here. Which issues historically, they've chosen to stay away. And if there are any boundaries,
give us a sense of the discussions you've had and how far they're prepared to go here.
FARNSWORTH: Well, I think it's important to recognize that we're in a kind of an unknown area here in terms of --
SOARES: Yes --
FARNSWORTH: The pressure that's being placed on political humor right now. Plenty of presidents didn't like what had been said about them, but they
didn't really make the kind of aggressive response, the threatening of license renewals, the threatening of mergers that you're seeing from this
administration.
I think basically, you have to remember that above all, these are for- profit television networks that are producing these --
SOARES: Yes --
FARNSWORTH: Programs, and they want to be sure not to offend their viewers. They don't want to lose the audience share that they have. And so, there
has been, I think, in some ways, an increasingly edgy dynamic to political humor in recent years, in part because the larger culture in which
Americans find themselves is becoming so much more combative, so much more harsh, so much more nasty.
If you think about the things that people in public life say about each other, where is the line? Well, unfortunately, for Jimmy Kimmel, the
consumers, the companies that are out there have spoken and they're convinced that this is not where they want to go with their audience share.
SOARES: Stephen, we heard President Trump say today, and he said this in the U.K. whilst he was here for his state visit. He said Jimmy Kimmel was
fired because he had bad ratings more than anything else. Now, as we have heard repeatedly, as we know very well, ourselves, this industry as a whole
is in decline, right?
But Jimmy was doing -- from what I understand better, his show was doing better than most in that kind of time slot, the age group as well, that 25
age group. Where then does this leave the future you think of late night TV, and how does this economic -- the economic pressures you're talking
about there. You know, leave hosts, executives, what kind of positions they're leaving more vulnerable here?
FARNSWORTH: Yes, I mean, if you hear what "CBS" said, of course, they made the decision a few weeks ago to close down Stephen Colbert's show next
Spring. The idea is that this is simply not a profitable venue. My guess is that you're going to be looking at greater financial pressures on late
night comedy, and so, they're going to be ways, perhaps, that they figure out -- maybe they go fewer nights per week, maybe they only go for an hour
instead of 90 minutes, things like that, to try to reduce the cost.
But what's potentially more troubling, I think, from the point of view of how to make these things commercially successful, is the idea that if
everyone is looking over their shoulder, worried that they're --
SOARES: Yes --
FARNSWORTH: Going to say something that creates a big financial pressure, I don't know how much humor you're going to get in that fraught environment.
I think that the idea --
SOARES: And also, Stephen, where --
FARNSWORTH: Of a place of safety --
SOARES: Also, Stephen, where does it end? I mean, starts with late night shows, then becomes anchors, reporters. Where do you draw the line even if
it's not comedy? That's the concern as well. It just -- it keeps evolving and snowballing here.
FARNSWORTH: Well, I think that that's why it's perfectly reasonable for people to think of this as a very difficult time for media in the United
States. The financial pressures are immense. The political pressures are much larger than they used to be, and the uncertainty about what's coming
next is going to create an environment where I think a lot of reporters are going to self-censor. A lot of editors --
[14:20:00]
SOARES: Yes --
FARNSWORTH: And news producers are going to be much more wary than they were a year ago or two years ago. And where does this end? It's not clear
to me that this trend changes any time soon.
SOARES: Absolutely, fascinating. Stephen Farnsworth, thank you very much for taking the time to speak to us, really appreciate it.
FARNSWORTH: Thank you.
SOARES: Now -- thank you. Now, after lavishing praise on one another and enjoying a lavish state banquet, it was down to business today for U.S.
President Donald and British Prime Minister Keir Starmer. Mr. Trump and the first lady are now on their way back to Washington, wrapping up their two-
day visit to the U.K.
During that joint news conference, we mentioned, the two leaders were asked about various topics about the next steps towards ending the war in
Ukraine. The Prime Minister says continued Russian attacks show that President Vladimir Putin is not interested in peace.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: The Russia situation, I hope we're going to have some good news for you coming up. But again --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes --
TRUMP: It doesn't affect the United States. And he -- look, it doesn't so much affect you, of course, you are a lot closer to the scene than we are.
We have a whole ocean separating us.
KEIR STARMER, PRIME MINISTER, UNITED KINGDOM: We have to put extra pressure on Putin. And it's only when the President has put pressure on Putin that
he's actually shown any inclination to move. So, we have to ramp that pressure up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Well, the two leaders agreed to disagree on the war in Gaza. The Prime Minister says he hopes recognizing a Palestinian state will lead to
peace. President Trump once again called for the release of Israeli hostages, but didn't offer any specifics on how the war could end. Things
turned somewhat awkward when a reporter asked the President about Peter Mandelson, the British ambassador to the U.S., who was sacked by Prime
Minister Starmer over links to Jeffrey Epstein. Here's the exchange.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We don't know him, actually, I had heard that, and I think maybe the Prime Minister would be better speaking of that, that was a choice that he
made -- and I don't know. What is your answer to that?
STARMER: Well, I mean, it's very straightforward. Some information came to light last week which wasn't available when he was appointed. And I made a
decision about it, and that's very clear.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Well, that was indeed the elephant in the room for both leaders. Our Kristen Holmes is at the White House for us. And Kristen, give us a
sense then, of how the President viewed this, you know, unprecedented state visit, it was certainly packed and productive. What was the takeaways? What
are you hearing?
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, just moments ago, we heard President Trump talking on the plane to reporters, answering
a series of questions, much of it we had heard before. But what was interesting was him talking about this trip in specifics, and specifically
saying over and over again, that he could tell that the U.K., that Starmer, that the royals all really respected him and showed not only him, but the
country, a lot of respect.
They did that by putting on these elaborate galas and shows, the carriage ride, all of the above were all part of what President Trump said showed an
enormous amount of respect. And I will say, I think it's likely that both men were breathing a sigh of relief after that press conference. Yes, the
Epstein moment was slightly awkward.
Yes, there were a few disagreements, but overall, you could tell that this was a good trip for both of them. At certain points, President Trump
leaning towards Starmer, putting his hand on his back, and Starmer avoiding questions that would really highlight the differences the men have in their
politics, which the two of them couldn't be more politically different.
But they both focused largely on the things that they agreed on. So, you're seeing two men coming out of this trip feeling very good about what
happened on the ground. Now, I will say, there was quite a bit of international news made at that press conference. There was, of course, as
we had already learned, these investments in both Britain and the U.S. by countries, U.S. countries into Britain and vice versa.
But then, there was other news as well. You heard President Trump talking about Bagram Air Force base in Afghanistan, saying that the United States
was going to try and get that back. He actually talked about that on the plane as well, he continues to say "they" -- and I'm going to put that in
quotes because we don't know who "they" is, need a lot from us.
But he also mentioned that, that air force base happens to be just an hour away from where China is making nuclear weapons, so that would be very
beneficial to the United States. They talked about Russia and Ukraine. And I do think there was an interesting moment there. We heard President Trump
on the plane just now saying that he thought that when it came to Russia and Ukraine, that Starmer was somewhat embarrassed.
And President Trump was specifically talking about the fact that NATO countries and some European allies still buy oil from Russia. And it did
appear at one point, as though he was saying that he would consider sanctions if these European countries were to stop buying oil from Russia,
but still, of course, as we know, he has entertained the idea before and never actually gone through with it.
SOARES: Kristen Holmes, thank you very much indeed. And still to come tonight across France, hundreds of thousands take part in strikes and
protests, putting more pressure, of course, on the new Prime Minister.
[14:25:00]
And then later, Hamas makes a new threat against the remaining hostages as Israel advances a major ground assault on Gaza city. Both those stories
after this very short break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: Welcome back. Hundreds of thousands of people are taking part in anti-austerity protests today across France. That number coming from the
union's organizing the strike. Teachers, train drivers and hospital staff are among those expressing their anger. They are calling for the government
to scrap planned budget cuts.
Instead, they want more public spending, higher taxes on the wealthy and the reversal of the decision to make people work longer for their pensions.
It has been just over a week, if you remember, since the French government collapsed with new Prime Minister Sebastien Lecornu facing mounting
pressure over the growing deficit.
Our Melissa Bell has been following the protest from Paris and joins me now. Melissa, the last time you and I spoke, you were also on the streets
following the protests. So -- and at the heart of that was also the budget. How much has changed or seems very little has changed since then.
MELISSA BELL, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the big difference really between what we saw last week when we last spoke, Isa, and today,
was the participation of the trade unions, and that always brings a certain amount of organization, a lot more people, a certain amount of gridlock,
industrial action to France.
The figures differ. If you listen to the French Interior Minister -- Ministry, they say it was 500,000 people in the streets of France. The
unions say double that. It did feel very well attended. What we did see at the end of the day here in Anzin (ph), were a few clashes with police. They
had warned that there were black bloc, extreme left groups threatening to come out, and that's what we witnessed ourselves by the end of the day.
Quite a bit of tear gas, projectiles going back and forth and a bit of violence at the end of the day. But largely, this was a very big protest.
We hadn't really seen, Isa, these numbers, this kind of coordinated trade union action since 2023, when, you'll remember, the French had come out
massively to oppose pension reform.
So, I would say that what's changed is that since Sebastien Lecornu, who was already in power, freshly-named, nominated when we spoke last week, at
that time of that, let's block everything, it was 170,000 people on the streets, no trade unions. What changed is that in the space of those --
that week, just over a week, he hasn't yet named a government.
What he has tried to do is placate. So, he's announced a number of measures, for instance, ending the privileges that were enjoyed by former
Prime Ministers for life, announcing that he would not reopen the Pandora's box of pension reform, and announcing that he would come back on what had
been his predecessor's pledge as he tried to cut the budget to scrap two bank holidays.
So, he's tried to placate and move towards the left and what he's tried to announce so far. But that apparently did nothing to appease those on the
streets today who are extremely worried that whatever he said so far. And what's remarkable is we have yet to have a government, he hasn't yet named
his ministers. They are extremely worried that by the time he announces his plans for the budget they will be very similar to those of his predecessor
because, of course, France remains faced with this October deadline of when the 2026 budget has to be agreed, on one hand the looming debt crisis, on
the other the crowds that we saw on the streets today determined to keep the kinds of benefits they've had for decades, and that seems an
intractable problem.
It is exactly what Sebastien Lecornu is going to have to figure out and I think the point of today was very much to keep pressure and to say that if
you try. This is what you're going to face over the next few weeks. Isa.
ISA SOARES, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Yes. Well, coming to a head, of course, in October, very close indeed. Melissa, good to see you. Thank you.
And we are following reports from -- French reports, in fact, saying French President Emmanuel Macron and his wife Brigitte are planning to bring
scientific evidence in their defamation lawsuit against right-wing podcaster Candace Owens. Owens has repeatedly put forward allegations that
Brigitte was born male, "staking her entire professional reputation," and I'm quoting there, on the claim. Speaking to BBC, the couple's lawyers So,
they are ready to prove both generically and specifically that the claim is false. We will of course stay across that story for you.
And still ahead right here, many of the dead in Gaza have yet to be recovered and millions are struggling to survive. But an Israeli minister
says talks are already underway with U.S. to create a real estate bonanza.
And following a promise he made in 2020, President Donald Trump is vowing to designate Antifa as a terrorist organization. What that means after
this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:35:00]
SOARES: Welcome back, everyone. 20 major aid organizations are demanding urgent action in Gaza saying world leaders must act now to prevent the
evisceration of life. They say Israel has deliberately made Gaza uninhabitable. Warning the catastrophic situation will get even worse as
troops escalate an assault on Gaza City. Hundreds of thousands of people are still sheltering there despite the IDF's evacuation demands. Others
have left. But they say there is nowhere safe to go.
This family is just camped on the side of a road, as you can see. The mother saying they're exhausted after walking for days.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): Here, there is no place to sleep. Here, in the street, on the street, sleeping on the sidewalk in the cold in
the sand and in the sewer and the filth. There is no shelter or anything, me and these girls.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Making Gaza uninhabitable may be the point, according to Israel's finance minister. While the lives of millions of Palestinians hang in the
balance and countless bodies have yet to be recovered from the rubble. Bezalel Smotrich says Israel's done with the demolition phase and is now
talking with the United States on how to divide up the spoils of war.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BEZALEL SMOTRICH, ISRAELI FINANCE MINISTER (through translator): There's a business plan set by the most professional people there is and is on
President Trump's table and how this thing turns into a real estate bonanza. I'm not kidding. It pays off. Paid a lot of money for this war.
So, we need to divide how we make a percentage on the land marketing later in Gaza. And now, no kidding, we've done the demolition phase, which is
always the first phase of urban renewal. Now, we need to build. It's much cheaper.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Bezalel Smotrich there. Well, the military wing of Hamas just issued a statement saying it has distributed the remaining hostages
throughout Gaza City neighborhoods. It says the IDF's ground incursion means Israel will not get any of them back dead or alive. Our Jeremy
Diamond has more for you from Tel Aviv.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Well, as the Israeli military makes its opening moves to invade Gaza Citym Hamas is issuing a dire
warning, a threat really about the lives of the hostages.
In a new statement, Hamas has said that Israel's invasion of Gaza City amounts to Israel throwing away its chances of getting Israeli hostages
back alive or dead. Hamas has now said that it has spread out the hostages across Gaza City's different neighborhoods and, quote, "will not be
concerned for their lives as long as Netanyahu has decided to kill them." That is of course a reference to the fact that the Israeli prime minister
has signed off on this invasion of Gaza City despite the fact that there is significant evidence that Israeli hostages are indeed being held there.
The Israeli military spokesman, for his part, says that the military will do, quote, "everything to avoid harming them," will operate responsibly and
in coordination with Israeli intelligence services. But this speaks directly to so many of the fears that we have heard from the families of
those hostages who have been crying out in Israel almost on a daily basis now, in particular in protests in front of the Israeli prime minister's
residence, expressing their fears that their loved ones will be killed amid this Israeli military offensive in Gaza City, with some of them even
accusing the prime minister of essentially signing these hostages death certificates and calling for this offensive to be halted and a ceasefire to
be reached instead with Hamas.
Now, as all of this is happening, we're also monitoring a situation that took place at the Allenby Crossing between Jordan and the West Bank
controlled by Israel. According to reports a driver of a humanitarian aid truck that was headed from Jordan to the Gaza Strip opened fire at that
crossing killing two individuals. It's not clear if those individuals were soldiers or civilian, employees of that crossing. The Israeli military
calling this shooting a terrorist attack. And as a result, halting all humanitarian aid shipments through this land route from Jordan to the Gaza
Strip while there is an inquiry that is completed and the implementation of what they're describing as revised screening procedures for Jordanian
drivers.
And so, that suspension of aid from Jordan to Gaza will likely impact about 100 to 150 trucks of aid per week, according to an Israeli military
official. But nonetheless, will undoubtedly have an impact inside of the Gaza Strip.
Jeremy Diamond, CNN, Tel Aviv.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOARES: The U.S. president Donald Trump may keep a promise he made five years ago to designate Antifa as a terrorist organization. Taking to Truth
Social, Trump described the group as a quote major terrorist organization, adding that anyone funding Antifa will be investigated the highest legal
standard.
His plan however is unclear with few details about how a designation would actually work. Unlike other groups, terror groups, Antifa does not have a
leader or command structure. And within the U.S., Antifa enjoys First Amendment protection.
Let's get more on all this, Kevin Liptak joins me now. So, Kevin, as we were just saying there, Antifa is kind of a loose term, isn't it, for a so-
called group with no lead or structure? So, just explain from what you understand from this administration how exactly who they are banning
exactly.
KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yes. And it's not precisely clear all we've really learned from the White House and the administration
is what the president has put out on Truth Social. This is really more of a movement than a defined organization. And you're right that the president
said he would do this back in 2020. One of the reasons we never really saw anything materialized out of that is, one, there is no mechanism legally in
the United States to declare a domestic organization a terrorist group. You have the foreign terrorist organizations, but a similar one doesn't exist
for domestic entities.
And then there's a question of who would be wrapped up in this, you know, there's no defined leader of Antifa. There's no defined hierarchy or
structure. I think this is probably best interpreted as the president really sort of laying the groundwork to start beginning to go after some of
these left-wing organizations that he and his advisers have accused of fomenting violence in the wake of the Charlie Kirk assassination.
You've heard them talk about doing this over the last week or so. In addition to this terrorist designation, they've talked about potentially
bringing racketeering charges against some groups that fund some of this. They've talked about potentially stripping organizations of their nonprofit
status. This has been sort of an effort that's been underway as the president has been in Britain over the last several days.
Back here in Washington there is now this hurried effort behind the scenes to try and put some of these moves in place ready for the president to sign
and enact as soon as he gets back.
SOARES: Right. So, we don't really yet know how exactly this will work how exactly who they're going to go after, who he's going to target.
LIPTAK: Yes.
SOARES: Well, how is this being received?
LIPTAK: Well, I think broadly what you hear from Democrats is that this could potentially be laying the groundwork to go after opponents of the
president for opposing him. You know, you've heard potentially these -- when it comes to these racketeering charges the president mentioned George
Soros. He was one of the biggest Democratic donors. He has an organization that funds Democratic causes.
I think when you talk to people who are opponents of the president, the real fear is that this amounts to a crackdown on opposition. And it's not
just the terrorism allegations or the racketeering or the nonprofit status, you also have the president talking about FCC licenses and what's happening
with Jimmy Kimmel, it all kind of adds up into this atmosphere of cracking down on the president's opponents. And I think it's being met, at least by
the president's people opposite of the president, with a great deal of reservation and even fear.
SOARES: Yes, and it's a concern. And this is, by the way, is your own reporting, you saying that Trump's suggesting He thinks networks broadcast
license could be revoked if they are overwhelming negative perspectives on this. It's all tied in, right, Kevin?
LIPTAK: Yes.
SOARES: Unfortunately, we're running out of time. We're running out of time. My producer's going to tell me off, but it's online. Go and see it.
Thank you very much indeed, Kevin. Appreciate it.
And still to come tonight, Pope Leo gives an insightful new interview. We'll take a look at what it could mean for the future of the Catholic
Church. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:45:00]
SOARES: Pope Leo is giving insight in how he will run the Catholic Church, in his first big sit-down interview since his election. It's part of a new
biography called "Leo XIV: Citizen of the World Missionary of the 21st Century." The Pope sharing some of the topics that are close to his heart,
income inequality, artificial intelligence, and the role of women in the church, just to name a few of course. The Pope also discusses his
background as an American who spent decades carrying out missionary work in Latin America. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
POPE LEO XIV: So, I'm actually an American. And I very much feel like an American, but I also love very much Peru and Peruvian people. And so, that
is a part of who I am. Half of my minister and -- like spent in Peru. So, the Latin American perspective is very valuable to me and I think comes out
also in an appreciation that I have for the life of the church from Latin America.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Joining U.S. now is CNN's Vatican Correspondent Christopher Lamb. And, Chris, good to see you. This will be so well-received not just
improved but for our Latin America. He is, in many ways, a pope for the world because he's so well-traveled. He's also an American. Give us a sense
of what he said.
CHRISTOPHER LAMB, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT: Well, in this interview is very wide-range, it's got lots of topics. He talks about his relationship
with President Trump who he says he hasn't had any contact from. But his brother, he points out has.
SOARES: Trump's brother?
LAMB: Sorry. The pope's brother.
SOARES: Pope's brother.
LAMB: Has been to the White House. I think what Leo is doing in this interview is trying to set out that he wants to be a unifier. He wants to
avoid any polarization. He does though say he will raise issues with President Trump when he sees fit to. He also said that when he met J.D.
Vance he raised concerns about migration, and that's obviously something that Pope Leo has talked about.
So, he's trying to sort of plot a kind of mediator path here. And of course, his experience of being a missionary is very important because he
is going to travel as Pope. He also talks about the role of women in the church. He talks about LGBTQ Catholics. Broadly speaking, he's going to
continue in the path of Francis, but perhaps be a bit more cautious, a bit more of a consolidator.
SOARES: Given that then, he didn't say no communications have yet with Trump. Does he want to reach out to President Trump? Did he say anything
along those lines?
LAMB: Well, he said that he would talk to the president.
SOARES: Yes.
LAMB: And he would support peace efforts, but he would also raise concerns where they thought they needed to be raised. Now, interestingly, of course
Pope Francis was sometimes very critical of Trump and of things in the United States, in the church the United States. And Pope Leo says that
sometimes people would say, well, Pope Francis didn't know about the United States because he's from Argentina. Whereas they can't say that about me
So, he's pointed that out, which I was quite significant.
[14:50:00]
SOARES: He has been speaking quite openly in the last few days not just about the war in Ukraine, but also the war in Gaza. I know you mentioned he
spoke about immigration with J.D. Vance. Did he talk about any of these key aspects of foreign policy that just, you know, showed a division as he
tries to unite the world, of course?
LAMB: Well, I think on those things he will try and work with leaders. He has, of course, met the president of Israel. He does, in this book, say
that, you know, some are talking about genocide in Gaza, although he or the Holy Sea is not going to make a statement about that. And he is very
concerned about what's going on in the world and he is going to speak out.
But I think his tone and the way he does things is going to be less combative than Francis. He's going to try and work with people behind the
scenes as well as speak.
SOARES: One thing you took away, one thing you didn't know that you found out through this interview?
LAMB: Well, I think --
SOARES: Oh, you're probably knew everything about him.
LAMB: No, no. I think one of the things is that, you know, the key thing I took away is that he doesn't want to fuel polarization.
SOARES: Further polarization.
LAMB: Further polarization.
SOARES: Yes, exactly.
LAMB: That's the big thing that I took away. Yes, and that he reads the news very carefully because he obviously was talking about the fact that
President Trump had met his brother and other things. He does follow the news in a way much more carefully than Francis, and that's one thing that
is interesting.
SOARES: Right. Thank you very much indeed, appreciate it. And still to come tonight, Albania's newest appointment in Parliament is shaking things up.
But what makes us so different, you ask? We'll explain after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: Well, if you are looking for some new shades, Meta and Ray-Ban are offering what could be your next pair if you can, of course, afford a price
tag. Those attending the annual Meta Connect event on Wednesday were among the first to test the Meta Ray-Ban display glasses. Priced at a staggering
$799, many in the crowd were left questioning their value, really, after Meta CEO Mark Zuckerberg struggled simply to answer a video call as he
attempted to show off their use.
The glasses use artificial intelligence in a bid to reduce the need for a phone for small tasks. But those who are skeptical about making moves
towards an augmented reality have already doubted their necessity. There you go. Let me know if you get one of those. Interesting to see.
[14:55:00]
A new member of parliament is causing quite a stir in Albania. On the surface, she looks like any other politician but Diella, as she is called,
is anything but ordinary. She's actually A.I.-generated, and it's her job to manage and examine public tenders all in the hopes of eliminating
bribery and conflict of interest.
But it's not that simple. The opposition says the move is unconstitutional since the bot isn't human. Diella insists, however, that in her words, she
isn't here to replace people but to help them. Heard that before.
And it's a case closed for investigators in Egypt who have been tracking down an ancient artifact. This isn't just any old bangle, by the way. It's
a 3,000-year-old bracelet that belonged to Pharaoh. It disappeared from Cairo's Egyptian museum earlier this month. And authorities say it was
taken from a safe inside the museum by a restoration specialist and was sold until it got into the hands of a gold smelter. And you can probably
guess what happened to it there. The bracelet may have been melted down, but justice is still on the horizon. Suspects have been arrested and around
$4,000 in profits seized.
That does it for this hour at least. I'll be back with "What We Know" next. Please stay right here.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:00:00]
END
