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Isa Soares Tonight
Britain, Canada, Australia And Portugal Recognize Palestine As A State; Trump Administration Set To Tie A Particular Painkiller To Autism; U.N. Holds Emergency Meeting On Russian Incursion Into Estonian Airspace; Kremlin Denies Entering Estonian Airspace; CNN Goes Inside Goma Since M23 Peace Deal; Egypt's President Pardons Alaa Abd El-Fattah; Charities Drop Duchess of York Over Epstein e-mails. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired September 22, 2025 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00]
ISA SOARES, HOST, ISA SOARES TONIGHT: A very warm welcome to the show, everyone, I'm Isa Soares. Tonight, world leaders descend on New York for a
critical U.N. General Assembly. France is set to become one of the latest countries to recognize a Palestinian state as Israel continues to pummel
Gaza city.
We'll bring you, of course, the very latest. Plus, the Trump administration set to tie a particular painkiller to autism. However, experts say there's
no credible evidence of a link. We'll have the scientific analysis for you this hour. And an emergency U.N. Security Council meeting called over
Russian incursions as Europe grapples with growing airspace violations. We are live for you this hour in Moscow.
But first, tonight, a historic shift toward Palestinian independence is underway at the United Nations, leaving Israel and the United States
increasingly isolated on the world stage. More countries are set to recognize a Palestinian state on the opening day of the U.N. General
Assembly.
It is a symbolic milestone that may not change the reality on the ground in Gaza, and indeed, the West Bank. But the Palestinian Authority calls it a
refusal to accept that occupation is permanent and a refusal to allow Palestinian people to be erased. France and Saudi Arabia are co-chairing a
summit on a two-state solution next hour, and we're expecting to hear from President Emmanuel Macron.
Of course, we'll bring that for you. He has been spearheading western efforts to recognize the Palestinian state, and is expected to make a
formal announcement today. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
EMMANUEL MACRON, PRESIDENT, FRANCE: So, we will announce a recognition, but which is the beginning of a political process and a peace and security plan
for everybody. So, right after this recognition, we have a first phase, which is, I would say, the emergency phase, ceasefire, release of all
hostages, and third, restoring humanitarian roads and the stabilization of Gaza.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Well, the Palestinian mission to the U.K. raised, as you can see there, the Palestinian flag in London today, a day after Britain and three
other countries recognize the Palestinian state. The mission head says it marks an irreversible step towards peace and justice.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HUSAM ZOMLOT, HEAD OF PALESTINIAN MISSION IN U.K.: It is about ending the denial of the Palestinian people's inalienable right to freedom and self-
determination. And it is an acknowledgment of a historic injustice. Ladies and gentlemen, Palestine exists. It has always existed, and it always will.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: And I was speaking to Mr. Zomlot in about two hours or so here on CNN. Yet, Israel is the one that controls the Palestinian territories, not
the U.N.. And Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says in no uncertain terms, a Palestinian state will not happen. He has a powerful ally in the United
States, and Washington, of course, on his side.
U.S. President Donald Trump is due to address the General Assembly on Tuesday. Let's get more now from CNN's Kylie Atwood at the U.N. And Kylie,
good to see you. We are seeing a joint effort between the U.K., Canada, Australia, Portugal recognizing a Palestinian state, a joint effort to
maximize, I'm guessing here, the impact. What impact would that be? What are they likely -- what are we likely to see in real terms?
KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN U.S. SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, these countries certainly believe that there is strength in numbers here. As you said, we
saw this move, announced recognition of a Palestinian state by the -- by the U.K., Canadian -- Canada and the Australians over the weekend.
France is expected to announce that recognition today, or at least this week at the United Nations. And also, President Macron, who is hosting this
two-state solution conference today, saying that France believes that it is a necessary precondition to ending the war in Gaza to recognize a state of
Palestine.
And that is because he believes that this is a move that will isolate Hamas. Now, that is obviously not the perception of the Israelis who have
been extremely opposed to this move.
[14:05:00]
And when you talk to people who are looking at the conditions on the ground right now, and have looked at it for decades now, they say that right now,
the reality is that, that is the farthest from the truth of the possibility that it has been in decades, that recognition of a Palestinian state just
doesn't seem to be anywhere near what is possible on the ground right now.
So, there is somewhat of a dissonance between what is being said, the commitments that are being made by these countries, and what is actually
happening on the ground. But we should note that there are more than 140 countries, more than half of the U.N.-member nations who are going to be
part of this two-state solution conference today, trying to push an end to the conflict.
SOARES: Kylie Atwood for us at the U.N., thanks very much, Kylie, appreciate it. Well, we'll hear from Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin
Netanyahu at the United Nations, that's going to be happening on Friday. He's vowing a response to the countries recognizing, of course, a
Palestinian state. He says such a state would endanger Israel's existence and be, quote, "an absurd prize for terrorism".
Our Oren Liebermann has more for you from Jerusalem.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN JERUSALEM BUREAU CHIEF (on camera): France will become the latest country to recognize the state of Palestine in just a few hours
here when they make that announcement at the beginning of the French-Saudi summit in support of a two-state solution, that is a state of Palestine
next to a state of Israel.
And it builds off of what we saw on Sunday when the U.K., Canada, Australia and Portugal announced that they would recognize a state of Palestine, and
there might be more countries to come over the course of this week as we get into the United Nations General Assembly. The purpose here is two-fold.
First, it's to underscore the urgent call for a ceasefire to end the war in Gaza after nearly two years.
These countries have become increasingly critical not only of Israel's actions in Gaza, but of the growing death toll. The Palestinian Ministry of
Health says more than 65,000 have been killed since the start of the war, and they see this as a humanitarian crisis that is worsening, especially as
Israel escalates the assault on Gaza city.
So, that's one purpose here, is to call for a ceasefire. The other is to keep alive the possibility of a Palestinian state next to a state of
Israel. Israel's far-right ministers have made clear that the expansion of Israeli settlements in the occupied West Bank is specifically designed to
kill the possibility of a Palestinian state.
And so, you see these countries put down a marker, effectively a symbolic marker recognizing a Palestinian state to make sure that it remains viable
moving forward in the future. Now, Israel and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu have effectively lashed out at these countries and vowed that
there would be a response.
Angry reactions coming from large parts of Israel's political spectrum, especially the right-wing. But how Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu
responds will largely rely on President Donald Trump. The two are set to meet next week, and Netanyahu has said he'll announce his response after he
speaks with Trump. Trump essentially holds the key here.
The permission for Israel to do whatever it intends to do, whether it's annexing parts or all of the occupied West Bank, whether it's closing
consulates of some of these countries that are moving forward with recognition of a state of Palestine, that will require U.S. backing,
especially as Israel appears to be growing more isolated on the international stage.
Nevertheless, Netanyahu feels he can move forward with whatever his response will be as long as he has U.S. backing. Oren Liebermann, CNN in
Jerusalem.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOARES: Let's get more on this, Hady Amr is a non-resident senior fellow at the Center for Middle East Policy at Brookings, he's also served as U.S.
Special Representative for Palestinian Affairs from 2022 to 2025. And he joins me now. Hady, I really appreciate you taking the time to speak to us.
As you've been hearing right from -- in the last eight minutes, we've just been outlined to our viewers the number of countries really the -- formally
going to recognize a Palestinian state. How much do you think, Hady -- is this a symbolic gesture? What does this change?
HADY AMR, NON-RESIDENT FELLOW, CENTER FOR MIDDLE EAST POLICY AT BROOKINGS: Honored to be here, and thanks for your excellent reporting. This is
essentially purely a symbolic gesture. It's very important to understand that. It's a recognition, an expression of profound frustration by the
recognizing countries.
The real question before the world, before humanity, before each of us today is when will the slaughter in Gaza end? When will we get to a
ceasefire? And how do we move to a place where Israelis and Palestinians alike can enjoy the same freedoms, the same security, and the same
prosperity?
SOARES: And really, what we are seeing, Hady, is strength in numbers and in that strength, critically, as you've outlined there, the frustration from
so many of these different countries. What is clear is that declaration -- this declaration won't be enough. It needs to be accompanied by action.
[14:10:00]
So, I wonder what you think realistically, that action could look like. What pressure can apply and what levers are there? Because many countries
have been outspoken on this, and it hasn't changed anything.
AMR: So, you're absolutely right. Symbolic statements are not enough. We've had more than half a century of asking nicely to end this intolerable
situation where one group of people is ruling over another. I think hopefully, this is the beginning of an acknowledgment that we basically
need a global movement, and I don't know what you would call it, but in my mind, it's like action until equality, right?
So, what we need is a commitment that all of us, every nation with leverage, will continue to act until Israelis and Palestinians can deserve
equality. To get there, we need to go beyond symbolism, and there needs to be consequences for those who don't play along, whether those -- that's the
Israeli government or the Palestinian leadership. There must be consequences for refusing to move forward. We're on to look into --
SOARES: What would those consequences -- pardon me, sorry to interrupt, but what do those consequences look like? Because, of course, the biggest lever
here of pressure on Israel is the United States. But the U.S. -- and you would have heard this last week when the U.S. President was here in the
U.K. for a state visit, standing alongside the British Prime Minister Keir Starmer at Chequers, made very clear the position that they won't support a
Palestinian state.
So, what would that pressure in real terms look like? And could that influence at all, you think, the United States?
AMR: Look, that's a billion-dollar question. Donald Trump has said he wants the war to end. And yet, nonetheless, it seems --
SOARES: Right --
AMR: That he continue -- Donald Trump continues to get dragged along together with Prime Minister Netanyahu in supporting this, the most right-
wing, ultra nationalist government in Israel's history. What those questions -- what those consequences are, it's a billion-dollar question.
We all need it -- we all need to answer those questions.
There's been actions. There's been a movement in the United States Senate and United States Congress to withhold weapons to Israel. That's a useful
first step. But again, just as with the Palestinians, also with the Israelis, there needs to be consequences and action until we reach the
equitable outcome that Israelis and Palestinians deserve, and that the world deserves.
SOARES: Yes, and, Hady, look, what is clear is that Israel is growing diplomatically at least isolated. It's clear that they're completely
impervious to any kind of outside pressure or any influence or whatsoever, even from potentially the United States to this point. But the fear -- and
you would have heard this from my colleague, Oren Liebermann in Tel Aviv or in Jerusalem, pardon me.
And he was saying, the fear is that this, of course, could be used potentially as a pretext to annex West Bank. Fears of retaliation. How do
you think Netanyahu will respond? And we will hear from him on Friday, of course. But how do you think he's likely to respond to this?
AMR: So, again, most right-wing government in Israel's history since Netanyahu came into power, basically new year's, a year-and-a-half ago,
we've had a dramatic increase with five times the number of outposts, triple the number of settlements. And Netanyahu -- and his coalition
partners have been clear that they want to, in a written manifesto, at least by Smotrich, that Palestinians should emigrate, submit or be treated
as terrorists.
I think -- and the other thing is that Israel, Netanyahu and his coalition are also keenly focused on their elections, which will occur a year from
now. And it could very well be that they lose power a year from now. So, they are trying to kind of look tough to their base, saying that they can
deliver. And yes, there's a fear that they could, as your reporting alluded to, shudder European consulates in Jerusalem to the Palestinians. They
could accelerate annexation of Palestinian land. And, you know, so, I think we very well could see steps along those lines.
SOARES: Yes, and that is incredibly troubling. And just picking up there, Hady, on your -- on the domestic pressures on the -- and the politics here,
because, you know, leaders, we've been -- international leaders are talking about this being a moment, a horizon of hope, I think is the words they
used. But we don't even have a ceasefire. So, you know, given the domestic issues, how likely are we even, you know, get to see that in the next 6 to
8 months or so?
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AMR: Look, I think we -- it's hard to say. Prime Minister Netanyahu is entirely unpredictable at this point. I think, you know, he's taken actions
like, you know, his attack on Qatar, which angered the entire Gulf Cooperation Council. He built a reputation on saying, I'm going to
normalize Israel's relationships with the Arab world.
And it's turned out that, you know, Israel's relations with the Arab world have only gotten worse and worse and worse. So, I think it's not clear what
we're going to see, but look, again, it's been an absolutely horrific, catastrophic two years for the Palestinian people, the worst in their
modern history, with 3 percent of Gaza's population killed, a per capita equivalent of 10 million Americans.
It's just -- it's not clear where this is all going, and in many ways, it depends on Donald Trump. Is Donald Trump going to continue to be led along
this path of violence, or is he going to end the war, which he says he wants to do?
SOARES: Hady, really great to get you on the show, thank you very much indeed.
AMR: Pleasure.
SOARES: Thank you. And still to come tonight, U.S. President Donald Trump promises what he calls an amazing announcement of the development of autism
in children. We'll bring you that. Plus, the U.N. Security Council convenes an emergency meeting to discuss Russia's incursion into Estonian airspace.
Remember, we told you about it on Friday, we have all the details for you just ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: Well, U.S. President Donald Trump is expected to make what he calls an amazing, his words, autism announcement. Though, the President hasn't
offered any details, he said, I think we found an answer. There are reports the administration plans to link the development of autism in children with
Tylenol.
Tylenol is like Paracetamol used during pregnancy. The President is also expected to tie the condition of low levels of the vitamin Folate. Experts
say there's no direct link between pregnant women taking the main active ingredient in Tylenol, Acetaminophen or of course, Paracetamol and autism
in children.
Our medical correspondent Meg Tirrell joins me now. So, Meg, just break it down for us here. You know, the link here. What is the evidence saying?
MEG TIRRELL, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, so far we don't know exactly what the evidence is going to be that we see presented out of the Oval
Office this afternoon. But if it's based on the evidence that we've seen so far, it does not prove a causal link between Tylenol use in pregnancy and
autism in children.
[14:20:00]
According to multiple doctors and experts that we've talked to about this, there have been a number of studies. This is an issue that's been looked at
really for longer than the last decade. And while some of the studies have found a potential association, they haven't proven a causal relationship.
So, to say that somebody in pregnancy -- and this is a very commonly used medication during pregnancy.
More than half of women worldwide have reported using this medicine while they're pregnant, and a big reason for that is other pain and fever
reducers are not thought to be as safe as Tylenol during pregnancy. And also, it can be dangerous not to treat pain or fever during pregnancy.
So, a lot of people rely on Acetaminophen. But as we heard from the President of the American College of Obstetrics and Gynecology this
morning, you are using this medication to treat pain or fever. So, is it the use of the medication that then might be subsequently linked to autism?
Is it the thing that you took the medication for, or is it something else entirely? And right now, the science doesn't have a definitive answer on
that, Isa.
SOARES: Right, so what are medical professionals then telling you here? How concerned are they about what the government may put out?
TIRRELL: They're pretty concerned, that same person we were talking with from ACOG this morning said that if they are saying this is a definitive
cause of autism, the word they used about that was reckless. They are worried that potentially women might then, you know, not want to take this
and not treat fever or something like that, and that could be harmful in itself as well.
SOARES: In terms of the maker of Tylenol, are they reacting at all to this? What are you hearing from them?
TIRRELL: So, that's a company called Kenvue, Tylenol used to be made by Johnson & Johnson. But they split off their consumer unit over the last
couple of years. So, this company Kenvue says that quote, "independent solid science clearly shows that taking Acetaminophen does not cause
autism. So, they clearly are concerned as well, Isa.
SOARES: And, you know, just -- can I just add very quickly, put this into context where we're likely to hear in the next hour because six months ago,
RFK Jr. said that they would have a cause of autism, right? By September, and then magically out of thin air, you know, the science is here within
six months. That's not exactly how science works. But can you give us the context in which this is appearing politically?
TIRRELL: I think you put it perfectly. When that pronouncement by the Health Secretary was made in April, the idea that we in five months would
know the cause of autism, something that Myriad researchers have been working on, and think is really a complex interplay between genetics and
potential environmental factors, was really a head scratcher.
And we haven't seen new data emerge. We've seen these analyzes of existing data, so people do wonder, what are we going to see today? Is there
anything new? And if not, the science is not where they might say it is.
SOARES: Meg, I know I'll speak to you in a couple of hours. Thanks very much, Meg. Thank you very much. Now, top conservative leaders were among
the thousands who said goodbye to Charlie Kirk on Sunday. They packed a football stadium in Arizona for the slain conservative activist memorial
service.
His widow, Erika Kirk delivered a powerful as well as emotional speech in which he said she forgave her husband's alleged killer. Later, President
Donald Trump honored Kirk's life and influence in a speech that veered into the rhetoric heard at his rallies. Kirk was shot on September 10th during
an event at Utah University.
The alleged shooter now faces a death penalty. I want to get some perspective from what we saw yesterday with our CNN Politics senior
reporter, Stephen Collinson. And Stephen, we heard really powerful words from Kirk's wife. She talked about forgiveness, but then we heard
retribution from the President of the United States, turning this almost as we are outlining there, into a campaign speech, right? Just talk us through
what we heard here.
STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN POLITICS SENIOR REPORTER: Yes, so most of this memorial service was, as you would expect, it was about paying tribute to
Charlie Kirk. It wasn't particularly threatening to people, I think, who aren't members of this particular political persuasion. There's been a lot
of talk from the White House and the President, especially, about how they blame the left for this killing.
This was a more unifying affair. But then the President showed up moments after Charlie Kirk's wife, Erika, had basically given this very moving show
of forgiveness for his alleged killer. The President turned up and said, well, I hate all my opponents, I'm not like Charlie Kirk.
So, I think it was a very deliberate and self-conscious attempt by the President to show us exactly who he is, and that he intends to carry out
this crackdown against what he calls leftist groups and use this assassination as a platform to do so.
SOARES: And what it did show, as we look at some of these images and just the crowd size really was just how influential, Stephen, Kirk really was,
with this administration, but also the strength right, of the MAGA movement. What can we glean from what we saw and what we heard about this
evolution here of conservatism and MAGA, indeed?
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COLLINSON: You know, this was actually one of the most fascinating events, political events I've seen for a long time, because it was to start with
almost a personification of the reason that Trump won last year's election. You had this very broad church of conservatives, not just MAGA Trumpism,
that came to celebrate Kirk. You had RFK Jr., who you were just speaking about, the Health Secretary, he brought -- when he came into this movement,
a certain amount of more liberal, more libertarian voters with him who have their own special health concerns.
You had J.D. Vance, the Vice President, he came from a more hardline conservative background than the President himself. And what Kirk was able
to do was to bring all these people together. In his widow's eulogy, I think we saw the emergence of a political star in her own right. She's now
going to take this movement.
It was immensely powerful helping to get Trump elected, it only now seems, in the wake of this tragedy, likely to grow. She has the moral force of her
loss and great political skills, I think she is going to become a key figure in the Trump movement after Trump, if you like. You saw J.D. Vance
and Secretary of State Marco Rubio, two potential successors to Trump, as Republican leader.
And they were almost vying for the support of this movement three years, really, before they would be campaigning for President in the Republican
nomination. So, absolutely fascinating. And I think it was a sign that the MAGA movement may become less about Trump in the future when he's gone from
the stage and more, in fact, religious and Christian and prone to religiosity. And both Vance and Rubio played into that emerging trend.
SOARES: Yes, and she said -- Erika Kirk said on that point, the world needs a group that will be point -- will point young people away from the path of
misery and sin. Very much to the point that you were making. Thank you very much, Stephen, as always --
COLLINSON: Thanks --
SOARES: Great to see you. And still to come tonight, Estonia and its allies denounce Russia for flying fighter jets through its airspace last week,
accusing the Kremlin of reckless and as well as outrageous behavior at an emergency U.N. Security Council meeting. Plus, an inside look at Russia's
international song contest, Intervision, casting itself as a rival to Eurovision. A report from Moscow just ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:31:03]
SOARES: Russia's incursion into Estonian airspace brings the region closer to conflict, that's what Estonian foreign minister, Margus Tsahkna, told
the U.N. Security Council earlier today.
Estonia requested the emergency meeting after three Russian armed fighter jets entered its airspace over the Gulf of Finland without permission, that
happened on Friday. The jets remained there for 12 minutes before being intercepted by NATO, that is according to Estonian Foreign Ministry.
Foreign Minister Tsahkna presented evidence to the Security Council. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARGUS TSAHKNA, ESTONIAN FOREIGN MINISTER: You can also see the radar screenshot where Russia fighter jets entered, where they were, and how they
went out. They were warned already before. There was a very clear communication on all different channels as well visible. And there was no
response, and just Russian fighter jets. They continued the violation of Estonian and also NATO airspace for 12 minutes, 100 kilometers. And this is
a lot. And these are the hard evidences for that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Foreign minister of Estonia there. Well, the Russian defense ministry has denied its jets entered Estonian airspace, insisting the
flights were conducted in strict accordance with international rules. That denial was repeated on Monday by Kremlin Spokesman Dmitry Peskov, who said
the accusations were escalating tensions.
Our Fred Pleitgen is live for us in Moscow. And, Fred, good to see you. We heard, I think it's fair to say, some tough words, not just from the
Estonian foreign minister, but from many others at the U.N. Security Council. Direct messages clearly there to Moscow. What has been the
reaction from the Kremlin to this?
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the Kremlin is absolutely shooting all of this back at the -- especially the
European allies in NATO, saying that they are the ones who are fostering this confrontation, calling all of this irresponsible.
You were just mentioning the Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov. He came out earlier today. Of course, we also know that the Russian foreign ministry
denied that its jets flew over NATO territory. So, the Russians really, in all facets of this, are denying that any of this happening, are essentially
accusing America's European NATO allies of being panicked.
It's been quite interesting, because we actually have been watching a lot of state TV here in Russia over the past couple of hours. And that
certainly is the messaging that's being put out here by Kremlin-controlled TV as well, that NATO nations are in panic, that this time it's the Russian
Air Force and not Russian drones, of course.
We have to keep in mind that all of this comes after a string of incidents that's been going on with that drone incursion into Polish territory a
couple of days before what happened in Estonia. The Russians, of course, claiming that they did not deliberately fly drones into Poland's territory.
The U.S. still pondering whether or not they believe it was deliberate. But certainly, the amount of incidents that have been going on, Isa, seems to
be increasing.
Well, at the same time, there's a lot of European countries in NATO who feel that the Russians are trying to drive a wedge between the European
allies in NATO and U.S. President Donald Trump. Of course, one of the things that happened today, Isa, is that Russian President Vladimir Putin,
he came out today and said that he was willing to, at this point, unilaterally adhere to a strategic arms reduction treaty that has actually
been canceled by both the Russians and the U.S. simply to foster U.S.- Russian relations and to strengthen those relations, of course, with the understanding that the Russians want a complete reset of U.S.-Russia
relations. Of course, the European allies of the U.S. fear that all of that could come at their expense, Isa.
SOARES: And not related to this, but within the same context, of course, you went to a music contest. We have the Eurovision. You have something
else on that side. But that does tell a picture, it paints a picture, doesn't it, of the divide here.
PLEITGEN: From hard power to soft power, if you will.
SOARES: Oh, you had that up your sleeve.
[14:35:00]
PLEITGEN: All of this possibly part of the confrontation that -- I did, actually, yes. Possibly part of the same confrontation that's going on. Of
course, Europe has its Eurovision song contest, which the Russians were kicked out of after the full invasion of Ukraine in 2022.
So, the Russians have now started their own competition, which is actually the revival of a Soviet-era competition called Intervision, which has
countries not from the European Union, but from around the world. And you're absolutely right. On Saturday, that competition happened. We were
there and we saw all of the acts. Here's what we saw.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PLEITGEN: Forget the Eurovision Song Contest. This is Russia's answer the Intervision song contest held here in Moscow.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): I can tell you for sure that there is nothing quite like the crowd in Russia.
PLEITGEN: I now, of course, Russia was kicked out of the Eurovision in 2022 because of its full-on invasion of Ukraine. So, they decided to do their
own song contest for countries around the world. And this is it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): For me, this show is better because many countries from around the world participate in it. And it is important
that this event can spread the culture of different countries around the world.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): this year we have 23 countries. I hope that next year there will be 50. Twice as many.
PLEITGEN: Now, there are more than 20 participants from 20 countries, and there was supposed to be an American contestant as well. What we're hearing
is that, that American contestant apparently has pulled out of the contest. Nevertheless, the countries that are represented here, many of them are
traditional allies of Russia, like, for instance, China, India.
You also have Venezuela and Cuba, but also Former Soviet Republics, like, for instance, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan and Kyrgyzstan also, as well. Now this
event is a little bit different than the Eurovision Song Contest that it seeks to rival in that. It's obviously not European countries.
It's international countries that are here, but the Russians are also saying that one of the things that they want to promote here is traditional
value. So, what we will not see here is any rainbow flags or other LGBTQ symbols because showing those is actually banned here in Russia.
Instead, people that we've been speaking to say that they want to see some of those more traditional values of the countries that are represented.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): And besides, the promotion of truly traditional values. Sorry, but heterosexuality is still important to
us.
PLEITGEN: So, Russian say that they hope that this event could be very successful, that it could become a yearly event. They also claim that with
the countries that are involved, more than 4 billion people are able to watch this event.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PLEITGEN: A lot of talented musicians there, Isa. Two things we still need to add, the winner was Duc Phu of Vietnam. We saw him there at the end of
our report. And one other thing, the Russian singer Shaman, who's very popular here in Russia, he asked the jury not to judge his performance. So,
Russia from the get-go did not have a chance of winning this competition. And finally, there is supposed to be another Intervision song contest
happening in a year and then to be held in Saudi Arabia. Isa.
SOARES: Very quick question. How is the voting? Is it one point, two points? How exactly do they vote?
PLEITGEN: Yes, very interesting question because there's no audience voting that's going on. There are juries and there's one jury member from each
participating country. In this case, it was 23, including one member from the United States. Of course, the United States didn't participate with the
song because the singer pulled out.
But what the jury is allowed to do, they are allowed to rank the performances, but they are not allowed to vote for their own country. So,
that's how the voting went down. And in the end, it was the Vietnamese contestant who got the most votes.
SOARES: Very interesting indeed. I'm surprised you didn't get your guitar out, Fred. Good to see you there. Thanks, Fred.
PLEITGEN: Next time.
SOARES: Still to come tonight, CNN goes inside rebel-held Goma, where the M23 militia says it won't recognize any White House peace deal. Our
exclusive report is just ahead.
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SOARES: U.S. President Donald Trump says he has settled the conflict between Rwanda and the Democratic Republic of Congo. The peace deal signed
in Washington in June came after an armed group known as M23, allegedly backed by Rwanda, took control of two major cities in Eastern DRC, Goma,
and Bukavu at the start of the year. But many armed groups in the DRC are still fighting.
In this exclusive report from (INAUDIBLE), Goma M23 tells CNN's Larry Madowo it won't stop until it reaches the country's capital. Rwanda denies
backing the rebels. The following report contains disturbing images.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LARRY MADOWO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In the Democratic Republic of Congo, a militia flaunts its new army on graduation day. These men are said
to be former Congolese army soldiers who laid down their arms during fierce battles for the DRC's largest eastern cities of Goma and Bukavu.
The man watching over them is Corneille Nangaa, the leader of the Congo River Alliance, which includes the M23 rebel group allegedly backed by
Rwanda. The White House brokered a peace deal between the DRC and Rwanda in June but these rebels are still fighting.
Rather than peace, this former election chief says he plans to take his soldiers to the capital, Kinshasa, to overthrow DRC President Felix
Tshisekedi.
CORNEILLE NANGAA, AFC-M23 POLITICAL LEADER: Alliance our aim is to go to Kinshasa. We are going to go with our Congolese people. We are Congolese.
We don't benefit anything from Rwanda, and we don't need it.
MADOWO (voice-over): CNN traveled to Goma and eastern DRC to interview the M23 leader amid fresh accusations of severe human rights abuses and war
crimes leveled against all sides, but especially at M23.
VOLKER TURK, U.N. HIGH COMMISSIONER FOR HUMAN RIGHTS (through translator): My team confirmed that the M23 committed widespread torture and other
mistreatment, including sexual violence, against detainees.
NANGAA: These are the liars. Fake reports, there's no truth in that.
MADOWO: You don't agree with Human Rights Watch and the U.N. and all --
NANGAA: I don't agree. I reject all those reports because they are propaganda from Kinshasa, and they have been paid for that.
MADOWO (voice-over): The eastern DRC, which shares a border with Rwanda, has been mired in conflict for more than 30 years since the Rwandan
genocide. It is one of the most complex and protracted crises in the world, stemming from colonial-era border disputes, ethnic tensions, and fought
over its large deposits of minerals that are crucial to 21st century technology.
M23 has grabbed territory where the world's largest reserves of coltan are located, critical to the production of electronics from cell phones to
electric vehicles. The Rwandan government denies backing M23, though U.N. experts and much of the International Community believe Rwanda supports the
rebels.
[14:45:00]
M23 first seized Goma in 2012, and this January took it again, this time the rebels say they will not withdraw so easily.
MADOWO: Would you accept a peace deal that requires you to withdraw from these areas you currently control?
NANGAA: When we are here, we address the root causes of the crisis, then we drop everything, and everything is done.
MADOWO: President Trump said that they're getting minerals as part of this deal.
NANGAA: Tshisekedi doesn't have any mining, a mining site.
MADOWO: So, President Tshisekedi has no minerals to give to the U.S.?
NANGAA: He doesn't have it, he's a crook.
MADOWO: Are you suggesting that President Tshisekedi is manipulating President Trump with minerals?
NANGAA: This is what he is trying to do.
MADOWO: Will it succeed?
NANGAA: I don't know.
MADOWO (voice-over): Goma International Airport has been closed since M23 took over. They accuse Congolese troops of leaving behind mines and booby
traps.
MADOWO: One of M23's biggest trophies is this Russian-manufactured fighter jet, which they say they took over as the Congolese army fled the city.
That fighter jet is used to fly these rocket heads, and you see some of them have been used, some are still active, all abandoned, as the city was
getting liberated, according to the M23.
MADOWO (voice-over): Caught in the crossfires of power struggles and violence are vulnerable women and children. Twenty-five-year-old
Muhawenimana Rachel, along with her four young children, are some of the thousands that have been sent over recent months from the DRC to Rwanda.
MUHAWENIMANA RACHEL, DISPLACED PERSON (through translator): I'm happy to be back home, even though I'm coming back to a place I don't even know,
because I was born in Congo.
MADOWO: The M23 tell us they are family members of Rwandan rebels who operate in the eastern DRC and who try to overthrow the government of
Rwanda. They're being repatriated. But human rights groups say some of this repatriation is not voluntary. They have to leave.
MADOWO: On the streets of Goma, life has largely returned to normal since January's fighting. At this busy market, people declined to speak on camera
for fear of being targeted. 28 million people, nearly a quarter of the population in DRC, required urgent food assistance as of mid-2025,
according to the World Food Programme.
It's told CNN the escalation of violence following the M23 takeover of Goma and Bukavu has, quote, "severely disrupted humanitarian operations."
Children have returned to class for the start of a new school year. But life remains difficult, with teachers earning just $100 a month. The sound
of gunfire may have calmed in Goma, but lasting peace still seems a long way off. M23 are, so far, not even party to the White House agreement.
NANGAA: The root causes of the conflict is not discussed in Washington.
MADOWO: Will you recognize any peace deal signed at the White House?
NANGAA: I don't recognize the Tshisekedi regime. So, whatever he signs, I'm not concerned. He's illegitimate. He cannot represent DRC. So, whatever
they sign over there, and so far, as we are not part of it, we don't care. I don't recognize it.
MADOWO: M23 consider themselves revolutionaries, not rebels. And it seems even the U.S.-negotiated peace agreements won't stop them.
Larry Madowo, CNN, Goma.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOARES: Exclusive reporting there from Larry Madowo and team. While the Democratic Republic of Congo categorically rejects baseless accusations
that Congolese troops left behind mines and booby traps at Goma International Airport, a government spokesman told that in a statement to
CNN. They also said, and I'm quoting here, "The peace agreement signed in Washington under the accompaniment of President Donald Trump does not
contain a sell-off of Congolese minerals for peace."
Now, prominent Egyptian-British activist has been pardoned by Egyptian President Abdel Fattah el-Sisi. State media report Alaa Abd El-Fattah has
been ordered released from prison. He was arrested in 2019 under accusations he spread fake news on social media about prisoners' death.
Prior to that, the 43-year-old spent much of his adult life in and out of detention for his activism. Abdel Fattah was known for staging hunger
strikes to protest his time behind bars. There have been numerous campaigns for his release. We'll have much more after this short break. See you on
the other side.
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[14:50:00]
SOARES: Well, a number of charities have cut ties with the Duchess of York over e-mails she sent to Jeffrey Epstein. The e-mails followed an interview
in 2011 when Sarah Ferguson apologized for accepting Epstein's money.
A month later, a leaked e-mail shows that Ferguson apologized to Epstein, calling him, quote, "A steadfast, generous and supreme friend to me and my
family." A spokesperson for the Duchess has said Ferguson regrets her association with Epstein.
Royal Correspondent Max Foster joins me now. And, Max, I mean, for the Yorks, just another crisis, right?
MAX FOSTER, CNN ROYAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. So, we did know about her relationship with Epstein and of course her ex-husband Prince Andrew. On
Sunday, two newspapers, The Mail and The Sun, both published this e-mail. It's from 2011. You've just given some of the quotes there, but it seems to
have, you know, contradicted publicly made claims that she made before.
So, she had said in an interview earlier in the same year, so before that e-mail, that she regretted all her involvement with him. It was a gigantic
error of judgment and that what he did was wrong and for which he was rightly jailed. So, then you have this very contradictory e-mail going to
him. So, it looks very bad indeed.
SOARES: Yes. What does that -- I mean, what do we know, first of all, about the Yorks' relationship or her relationship particular with Epstein?
FOSTER: Well, we don't have the images as we do with Prince Andrew, but she was clearly had a and there's talk -- you know, there's reportedly, you
know, money going in particular directions as well. So, there was a longstanding relationship. And certainly, they were part of the
international jet set as he was. So, if they were in New York, it would, it's not unexpected to -- that they might end up at the same parties
because they were that kind of social set.
SOARES: Right. And when you say money, Epstein would be paying, I mean, that's --
FOSTER: There was some money exchange. We'll never know exactly why that was.
SOARES: Reputational damage, Max. What does this do? I mean, obviously you and I were covering President Trump's state visit last week where we saw
that picture of Epstein on the wall of Windsor Castle. What does this, what we saw last week and today, what does that do to the royal family? How
embarrassing is this?
FOSTER: Well, they're having -- you know, they're saying this is not -- you know, she's not a working royal. She hasn't been for a very long time.
She's actually divorced from the royal family. But we have seen her -- I don't even remember earlier in the year at Ascot. We have seen her being
brought in to royal events. You know, her children are very fondly thought of in the family.
[14:55:00]
We also saw her at the Duchess of Kent's funeral the other day. So, she has been being brought into the royal fold. But I think they can distance
themselves from her and I don't think the wider public necessarily sees her as part of the royal family anymore. So, I don't think it's done huge
reputational damage.
But I have to point out that we did speak to the spokesperson, as you say, not commenting about any of the latest developments today or these
charities separating from her because it can't be associated with such -- you know, it's very questionable, particularly when you talk about
children's charities and a pedophile. But the spokesman said, like many people, this was at the weekend, she was taken in by his lies. As soon as
she was aware of the extent of the allegations against him, she not only cut off contact but condemned him publicly to the extent that he then
threatened to sue her for defamation for associating him with pedophilia.
So, she's arguing that this e-mail was trying to allay being sued. But it's all -- you know, it's lots of conjecture. You don't know quite who to
believe. And it just looks very bad.
SOARES: Max, thank you very much indeed. And that does it for me for this hour. I'll be back for "Quest Means Business." Max Foster takes over with
"What We Know" next hour. He'll bring you all the latest, of course, from the U.N. That's next.
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END
