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Isa Soares Tonight
France Prime Minister Lecornu Resigns After Barely A Month In Office; President Trump Tells Gaza Ceasefire Negotiators To Move Fast In Direct Talks Between Israel And Hamas; State And Local Authorities Push Back Against President Trump's Deployment Of Federal Troops To Portland And Chicago; Gisele Pelicot Returns To Court; Conditions For Journalism Poor In Half The World; Zamora Honored By Clooney Foundation; Hundreds Stranded Near Everest. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired October 06, 2025 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00]
ISA SOARES, HOST, ISA SOARES TONIGHT: A very warm welcome to the show everyone, I'm Isa Soares. Tonight, France in political freefall. Prime
Minister Sebastien Lecornu calls it quits, leaving President Emmanuel Macron in further political crisis. We are live in Paris for you with the
very latest.
U.S. President Trump tells Gaza ceasefire negotiators to move fast in direct talks between Israel and Hamas are underway as major sticking points
leave peace hanging in the balance. Also ahead, after a weekend of clashes, state and local authorities push back against President Trump's deployment
of federal troops to Portland and Chicago.
But first, already out of the door. We begin with French Prime Minister Sebastien Lecornu resigning after 27 days on the job. The shocking move
further plunging France into a political crisis. Lecornu stepped down just hours after unveiling his new cabinet. In less than two years, have a look
at this, France has had five different Prime Ministers, so far, seven people have held that title under French President Emmanuel Macron.
Lecornu is now the shortest-serving Prime Minister since the fifth republic began. Right now, here are the options considering the options on the
table. President Macron could make -- could name a new prime minister, respond to the growing calls for a snap parliamentary elections or even
possibly resign, which is a possibility he has repeatedly rejected. Our Melissa Bell is in Paris tracking the fallout for you.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MELISSA BELL, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Another French Prime Minister steps down this time after just 27 days in office and only
hours after naming his government, parts of which appeared unhappy from the start.
SEBASTIEN LECORNU, RESIGNED FRENCH PRIME MINISTER (through translator): The very principle of building a compromise between political parties is to be
able to combine green lines and take into account a certain number of red lines, but we cannot be at both extremes.
BELL: Sebastien Lecornu becomes the fourth French Prime Minister to fail to build a stable majority since the June 2024 dissolution of parliament. A
staunch ally of President Emmanuel Macron, he took office after Francois Bayrou was ousted by lawmakers in September. Before him, Michel Barnier had
also lost the confidence of parliament and much for the same reasons.
MICHEL BARNIER, RESIGNED AS FRENCH PRIME MINISTER IN 2024: We proposed a budget, a difficult budget where everything was difficult to reduce our
deficit. This deficit did not disappear by the magic of a no confidence vote.
BELL: After just three months in office, Barnier had been the shortest serving prime minister in the history of the fifth republic. Now, he's been
beaten by Lecornu, who served just days rather than months. With the pressure on President Macron to call another parliamentary election
growing.
MARINE LE PEN, FRENCH NATIONAL RALLY PARTY (through translator): I'm calling on him to dissolve the National Assembly because we've reached the
end of the road, and there is no solution, and therefore, the only wise decision in these circumstances is to return to the polls and for the
French to give direction to the country.
BELL (on camera): Those calls from the far right growing all the more insistent that polls suggest that the party would do even better in a snap
election today than it did in 2024. The problem for President Macron is that with this latest resignation, he's fast running out of any other
options. Melissa Bell, CNN, Paris.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOARES: Thanks, Melissa, for that. And coming up in around 20 minutes or so, we'll be speaking with Sophie Pedder; Paris Bureau chief with "The
Economist" about what Macron might do next and what it means for France. You do not want to miss that conversation. Well, in the place known as a
city of peace, negotiators are facing a truly monumental task to bring an end to two years of war and suffering in Gaza and bring the Israeli
hostages home.
[14:05:00]
A Hamas source tells CNN, indirect talks began about two hours ago between Israeli and Hamas negotiators in Sharm El-Sheikh in Egypt. Based on U.S.
President Donald Trump's 20-point ceasefire plan, if you remember, that was released last week. The President is urging both sides to move fast, and
says he expects the first phase of negotiations to be completed this week.
The President told CNN, Hamas faces obliteration if the group refuses to give up power. This is what the White House had to say just in the last
hour. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: You've seen all sides of this conflict agree that, this war needs to end, and agree to the 20-point
framework that President Trump proposed. It's an incredible achievement, and the administration is working very hard to move the ball forward as
quickly as we can.
The President wants to see a ceasefire, he wants to see the hostages released, and the technical teams are discussing that as we speak to ensure
that the environment is perfect to release those hostages. They're going over the lists of both the Israeli hostages and also the political
prisoners who will be released.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: A source says U.S. special envoy Steve Witkoff and Mr. Trump's son- in-law Jared Kushner are expected to take part in those talks. More than 100 Palestinians have been killed since the U.S. President called on Israel
to immediately stop the bombing in Gaza just days ago. That is according to the Palestinian Health Ministry.
Our Nic Robertson is following those talks and joins us now from Cairo. Nic, there are a lot of expectations and a lot of hope, of course, that
this deal gets done today. Today, we even heard, I think it was from the German Foreign Minister who has been calling for some sort of agreement by
the beginning of next week. How likely is this? Talk us through where we are in the gaps here.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Look, I think the timeframe that the German Foreign Minister has given the talks or
implicitly has given the talks there, is perhaps more realistic than the expectations, at least, initially projected by President Trump in the early
part of the weekend, that this deal was sort of super close.
He's still pressing to get the essence of it done, to get the first part of it done, which is to have the ceasefire agreed and for -- and for Hamas to
hand back all the hostages. But really, and I think we got an insight into this in two ways over the past 24 hours. One is that, Ron Dermer; Prime
Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's -- one of his main advisors was going to lead the talks, is no longer leading the talks in person, will come at a moment
if that's necessary.
And the other point that we heard from Hamas earlier today, Khalil al-Hayya leading their delegation, of course, is the Hamas leader that Israel
targeted with an airstrike in Qatar about four weeks ago. He and with the - - his Hamas delegation had a meeting with Qatari and Egyptian officials to try, according to Hamas, to narrow gaps and key gaps, implicit in that are
the things like their demand that they disarm, the demand that they're no longer part of the political future in Gaza.
The option for the leadership to have free passage out of Gaza. So, there's a lot of detail, and President Trump and his team in the White House are
really trying to push to speed through, get the hostages released. But of course, for Hamas, that's been their leverage all along, having the
hostages.
It's an act of faith that Israel will not go back on the ceasefire for Hamas to enter the -- you know, to sort of agree -- to agree to everything.
It would be an act of faith that Israel would not backslide and then go back into conflict inside of Gaza again. So, it is a big momentous moment.
So, the framing we seem to be getting now is several days of talks that feels more accurate than speeding through them.
SOARES: Yes, and Nic, we heard President Trump tell Israel over the weekend to stop bombing immediately. Do we know whether that offensive that we're
seeing that you have been following closely from Israel, whether that is being -- has been stepped back, put on hold. What are we seeing on the
ground?
ROBERTSON: It has been stepped back. The sort of intensity of airstrikes and artillery strikes have been stepped back. They haven't been stopped.
Gazans are still being killed. And from the moment that President Trump made that statement -- and Israel did respond pretty quickly, the
continuation of strikes has led, according to health officials in Gaza, to a 100 deaths.
So, it's by no means become a benign sort of waiting environment. It is as difficult as ever. NGOs continue to talk about their terrible humanitarian
situation, the need to get food aid in. But of course, that was another one of the 20 points about getting through the -- getting the hostages back,
getting through the ceasefire, and then the aid can start flowing.
[14:10:00]
But the 20-point plan was in fact the bones of a 20-point plan. The detail of it is the -- it's the detail that Hamas is going to want a lock-down
with more nuance. In essence, before these talks can move forward again, and that speaks to a timeframe for longer talks here.
SOARES: Nic, I know you'll stay across it for us. Nic Robertson for us in Cairo this evening, thanks very much, Nic. Let's get more on this. Joining
me now is Moshe Lavi, his brother-in-law Omri Miran was kidnapped by Hamas on October the 7th in front of his wife and two young children. Moshe, good
to have you back on the show, really appreciate you taking the time.
You and I, Moshe, have spoken on numerous occasions, I think -- I think it's fair to say this is the closest we have been to an end, of course, to
this war, to having hostages home. How hopeful are you, Moshe, that this could be it?
MOSHE LAVI, BROTHER-IN-LAW OF HOSTAGE OMRI MIRAN: Thank you for having me today. I think you are correct in saying that this is the closest we've
felt. We'll add to that a caveat that while it is closer than ever, it can break apart easily. Negotiations are a tough business, especially when we
conduct them with the terrorist organization.
And there are going to be so many obstacles before the framework is going to be agreed upon. Our goal as families is to see that the first phase of
the deal is implemented as soon as possible. The release of the 48 hostages in the first 72 hours after a deal is concluded. And we're going to urge
policymakers to make every effort they can to ensure that because life might be lost, both Israeli lives, Gazan lives, if negotiations will take
too long. That's going to be my mission in D.C. this week when I head, there tonight.
SOARES: You're heading there tonight, I understand your sister, who, of course, has shown the most incredible strength over the past two years. I
understand she is traveling there, or maybe she's already there, Moshe, of course, to mark October the 7th. How does she see this moment of hope and
light? But like you said clearly, of so much uncertainty at this juncture.
LAVI: Yes, my sister is traveling to D.C., I'm looking forward to meet her there and be by her side in this momentous week. Just like me, we're trying
to -- she's trying as well to stay grounded and realistic as much as possible. We were disappointed time and again in the past two years when
negotiations collapsed.
And in return, we received only escalations and the loss of lives, including of hostages who were executed and murdered by Hamas as a result.
And so, what we're going to focus this week is, again, to keep pushing and advocating, remaining sober to the fact that this is going to be very
difficult. But the hope still is still there, and the hope will remain there until this crisis is over.
SOARES: And I think for so many families, you know, who probably be watching this and thinking how exactly do you keep that light burning? How
exactly, Moshe, do you and your family keep this maintained? Your hope among all of this, because I did say -- I did see that you put on X, it's
now or never.
And we also know from President Trump who has being applying a lot of the pressure that this is their last chance, right? Hamas' last chance at a
deal. How then do you -- do you keep the conversation -- that light burning, and are you in conversation also with the Netanyahu government?
What are they telling you in the last -- over in the last couple of days?
LAVI: To your first question, we keep the light going by looking in the eyes of my nieces, Roni(ph) and Alma(ph), four years old and two years old,
looking how much life and beauty and earning -- earnest honesty you can see in them. Seeing the -- how much hope you see in those eyes. And those eyes
give me strength because I want to see them have happier eyes when they reunite with Omri, when he embraces them at last.
So, they gave me the strength and the motivation to keep going. The future of our country, they are the future of our country and the future of the
region are the young children who survived October the 7th, and will build our country. And to your second question, we are always in contact with all
policymakers, whether here in the U.S. or back home in Israel.
At this moment, what we ask everyone is to keep diplomacy in the shadows, do not talk too much about what is discussed in the rooms, in the closed
rooms, and instead focus on finding a formula to agree on a deal with Hamas.
[14:15:00]
It's going to be difficult. Again, it's a terrorist organization, they have conditions that cannot be accepted as well for Gazans who should not be
living under an Islamist tyranny that they've been living for. So under -- and so, we'll keep pushing. That's our role as families, and keep telling
the stories of Omri and the remaining 48 hostages.
SOARES: And just finally, I'm going to ask my producer, Kate, to bring back those images of Omri and his daughters. Of course, beautiful photos. And I
know -- and I can see, you could see how little I think one of your nieces, I think she was only six months or so. You know, Moshe, when your brother-
in-law was taken brutally by Hamas, I wonder, you know, with your older niece, what conversation -- what has she asked you about his absence? What
kind of conversations -- what is she telling you?
LAVI: I was in Israel a week ago for Rosh Hashanah; the Jewish new year, and we had some conversations with my niece, Roni(ph). We don't introduce
her to the intricacies of --
SOARES: Yes --
LAVI: Negotiations or stuff like that, but we do discuss the fact that we are working hard to make sure Omri, her father, will return. She knows bad
people took him. She remembers being held captive herself for hours by Hamas terrorists. She especially remembers, being awakened with five
terrorists surrounding her at gunpoint.
And she knows, and she asked for Omri, she prays for him only this week, she -- when we build the Sukkah in where they're displaced right now. She
put a wish in a balloon in the Sukkah. And she said once, she'll explode -- once she'll -- the balloon will explode, her wish will come true. And that
wish was for the war to end, for Omri to return, for all the hostages to return, and for our soldiers to return in peace as well.
And I'm going to work as hard as possible to make sure that peace -- that wish comes true, because that's my goal, that's my duty as an uncle. And I
hope Omri somehow hears all the things we do, even though he's in torture, in duress, deprived of food, sanitation and sunlight. I hope he hears some
of the work we do as families of hostages to bring him home, and I hope it gives him the strength he needs to survive --
SOARES: Yes --
LAVI: Just a bit longer, until he's home.
SOARES: He's hoping. Moshe, really hope that your nieces' wishes do come true. We're praying, of course, for you, and all praying for end of this
horrific war. Thank you very much, Moshe, wishing you all the best. Thank you. I really appreciate it. Now --
LAVI: Thank you --
SOARES: Some activists were -- who were part of a flotilla trying to bring aid to Gaza, claimed they were mistreated while being detained in Israeli
prisons. Last week, the Israeli government released these photos of activist Greta Thunberg, you can see there in the middle, she was among the
more-than 170 detainees released.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRETA THUNBERG, ACTIVIST: And I will never, ever comprehend how humans can be so evil that you would deliberately starve millions of people living
trapped under an illegal siege as a continuation of decades and decades of suffering, suffocating, oppression, apartheid and occupation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: A group of former detainees landed in Madrid on Sunday, among their claims, were given rotten food and undrinkable water. Some also say they
were forced to watch images of the October the 7th Hamas attack. Israel's Foreign Ministry is calling the accusation brazen lies. And still to come
tonight, what steps the state of Illinois and the city of Chicago are taking to stop the deployment of National Guard troops?
Plus, I sit down with the son of one of Latin America's most prominent journalist, Jose Ruben Zamora, as his family campaign for an end to his
detention in Guatemala.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:20:00]
SOARES: Now, to the major legal confrontation pitting the U.S. President against state as well as local authorities. The state of Illinois and
Chicago are suing the Trump administration over its deployment of National Guard troops to Chicago. On Saturday, Trump ordered 300 members of the
Illinois National Guard to the city to protect a federal immigration facility that is being the site of increasingly tense protests.
The complaint filed in federal court by Illinois and Chicago, said in part, the American people should not live under the threat of occupation because
their city or state leadership has fallen out of President's favor. To guard against this foundational principles of American law limit the
President's authority to involve the military in domestic affairs. Those bedrock principles are in peril.
And Chicago's mayor today signed an executive order creating so-called ICE- free zones across the city. And this basically limits federal agents from using city property as staging areas for immigration enforcement. Here's
what the White House Press Secretary said about this just a few moments ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEAVITT: State and local law enforcement and federal law enforcement should be working together, and it's a shame that we see in some cities across the
country that their mayors are just simply refusing to cooperate because they don't like Donald Trump. And that's what this boils down to. And I
don't think any American would disagree that Chicago needs more law enforcement.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Well, Stephen Collinson joins us now from Washington. So, Stephen, I mean, we are seeing -- we have been seeing now a real push by this
administration to use federal forces as an act of law enforcement, which I believe is unconstitutional. You say in your last piece for cnn.com that
viewers can look up.
"A common thread running through the controversies of the new Fall season", you write, "of America's bitter politics is Donald Trump's attempt to
impose unfettered, often unprecedented presidential power on multiple fronts". How, then, on this particular instance here, how do you see this
playing out legally here?
STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN POLITICS SENIOR REPORTER: Well, you said in the intro there that Chicago and Illinois have lodged an all new lawsuit to try
to stop the federalization of the National Guards. These are reservists that are normally under the control of a state governor, in this case, a
Democrat in Illinois.
But the President can federalize them and use them under certain circumstances. The issue here, though, is that U.S. law prevents the
President using forces for law enforcement purposes, except under a very prescribed set of circumstances. For example, whether there's a rebellion
against the federal government. That is not happening.
In fact, in the lawsuit in Portland, Oregon, a judge who was appointed by Trump said that the claims that Portland is a war zone were completely
false, and therefore the conditions weren't met for Trump to send National Guard troops there. So, what you're seeing is a White House that really
wants to impose unfettered power.
As I say, there are extremists inside that White House who want to use troops against undocumented migrants. And I think this is raising an
interesting set of political questions and questions about whether this will actually help Trump in the long run, and what he might do next if he's
still constrained by a lot of these courts and judges that we're seeing in the last few days.
[14:25:00]
SOARES: Yes, we'll get to that part. But you mentioned the word rebellion there. It's interesting because in your piece, Governor J.B. Pritzker told
-- speaking to Jake Tapper in "STATE OF THE UNION", he says they want mayhem on the ground. They want to create the war zone so that they can
send even more troops. Then how does he work around this? Because he either goes against the judge's orders and then that risks, I'm guessing
constitutional crisis, or he steps -- finds a way around it, right? When you're talking --
COLLINSON: Right --
SOARES: About rebellion here.
COLLINSON: Well, one way around it would be to invoke the Insurrection Act, which does allow the President to send troops into cities or inside the
domestic territory of the United States' reservists or regular troops. I think that again would entail a lot of legal challenges, quite simply
because any objective view of this would say that there isn't that state of rebellion inside the United States.
For example, the immigration facility in Portland, Oregon, where there have been demonstrations, most of the demonstrations have been constrained to an
area of a couple of blocks around that place. There have been some violent incidents and clashes, but in no sense is Trump's argument that Portland is
a city in complete rebellion against the federal government.
True in any sense. So, then you get to that point, which you are implying there. What happens if Trump does this and then decides that he's going to
ignore a judge's order? A lot of legal experts say that point, for all the furor about his presidency so far, that point is where we could be at a
constitutional crisis with one branch of government in the United States defying the other.
SOARES: Given then what you've just said, what does -- explain, just explain for our international viewers here, what President Trump gets out
of this politically?
COLLINSON: Well, I think the whole point of Trump's persona politically, and why he was able to win two elections, this idea that he is strong,
strength often works in American politics. Politically, I think the White House believes that the midterm elections next year, they will need a very
invigorated Republican base.
So, that's why they are pushing towards this. Trump did do better in some urban areas in the presidential election last year. I think it's an open
question whether some of those voters will stick with him because they want to crack down on crime, or whether they will see this as going too far.
There have been a few signs, early signs in polls so far that a majority of American voters think the immigration crackdown has gone too far, and they
don't want to see these deployments, at least, at this point, of troops into the streets of cities like Washington D.C., for example, that's the
longest data we have of that.
So, it's possible that this could rebound against Trump a little bit politically. But generally, I think the White House believes that Trump has
a mandate to impose some of the most expansive, unrestrained executive power that we've ever seen in modern times. And I think that is the
motivating force more than anything else at this point.
SOARES: Power, politics at play, not just here, but also, of course, not forget the government shutdown was still an impasse there. I know you'll
stay across all the developments, Stephen, as always --
COLLINSON: Thanks --
SOARES: Appreciate it. Thank you. Well, today is day six of the U.S. government shutdown I just mentioned there with no end in sight. The Senate
is back in session next hour while the House is still out of session. The House Speaker has made it clear he will bring everyone back if Senate
Democrats, quote, "turn the lights back on and approve the Republicans' House passed bill."
But so far, Democrats aren't budging. House Minority leader Hakeem Jeffries saying over the weekend, his party was committed to extending the shutdown
until a deal was reached on healthcare subsidies. He also said high level talks between both sides weren't even happening at the moment. It doesn't
look like we're any closer to that.
And still to come tonight, a political gridlock in France as the Prime Minister resigns after less than a month on the job. I'll speak to the
economists Paris bureau chief. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:32:56]
SOARES: Returning to our top story, French Prime Minister Sebastien Lecornu resigning after just 27 days on the job. Only hours after unveiling his new
cabinet, Lecornu stepped down, making him the shortest serving prime minister since the Fifth Republic began. France has had five different
prime ministers, of those of you counting, in less than two years.
President Emmanuel Macron could end up naming a new prime minister, cave into calls for snap parliamentary elections, or even resign, which is a
possibility he has repeatedly, we should say, rejected.
I want to bring the Economist's Paris Bureau Chief, Sophie Pedder, for more on this. Sophie, great to have you on the show. President Macron, as we all
know, was pinning really his hopes on this government to turn things around, to pass this budget, and yet, here we are again, Sophie. Are you
surprised we're even here at this point?
SOPHIE PEDDER, PARIS BUREAU CHIEF, THE ECONOMIST: I mean, I'm not surprised in one sense, and that's that this parliament is just a recipe for
gridlock. It's divided into three blocks, three hostile blocks. They don't like to talk to each other, they don't want to compromise with each other,
and it makes it incredibly difficult. And we've now seen the third prime minister try to find a way of putting a budget through and failing. So, in
one sense, it's not surprising.
But I think it's surprising how fast this happened, and how it happened within, you know, hours, overnight, of having named his new government. So,
the kind of chaotic way in which events unfolded today, last night and today, have been very unexpected, you know, even by recent French
standards.
SOARES: How then, Sophie, do you see this playing out? We laid out some of his options. I'm guessing resignation from Macron's part. That is a no-no.
It's something he's repeatedly rejected. Naming another prime minister, we've been there numerous times. He hasn't picked, clearly, the right one.
Elections. What do you think is the most likely scenario here?
[14:35:00]
PEDDER: Well, if we take them in order, I mean, I agree with you that in terms of the possibility of him resigning, I think it's extremely low. He
believes very strongly in the constitutional importance of the presidency, and of maintaining -- you know, going to the end of a five-year term, which
lasts until 2027. And he has repeatedly said that that is what he will do. He thinks it will undermine the presidency if he were ever to not stand by
that.
Naming somebody else, you know, as I've said, it's very difficult to see how that somebody else is going to do any better. He has asked Sebastien
Lecornu, the outgoing prime minister, to try between now and Wednesday, to put together kind of a plan. But what that plan is, is very hard to see as
well, because you're still dealing with the same parliamentary arithmetic, which is against him.
But that is clearly -- it seems to be what President Macron wants to do in the first instance, to try and find someone who could put this together.
And the option of calling snap elections, well, he did that last year. He did that in June. And it didn't turn out too well for him. He ended up with
losing even more seats and his minority shrinking. So, the chances of him wanting to do that, unless the political pressure is absolutely unbearable,
are very slim, it seems to me. But that pressure is building.
SOARES: Let me pick up with what you said. Did you just say that he's asked -- President Macron has asked Lecornu to try again? I mean, Lecornu
resigned this morning. I mean, what is exactly -- what is he trying to ask him to do? To rethink his cabinet here?
PEDDER: It's a little unclear. I mean, what the Elysee has said is that after a meeting between the president and Sebastien Lecornu, who has
resigned, as you said, this afternoon, the Elysee, that's the French presidency, said that he, President Macron, has asked Lecornu to take until
Wednesday evening this week to try to form a plan.
Now, that plan could be to find another prime minister. That plan could mean to put together -- find a compromise. It's unclear. Sebastien Lecornu
said he doesn't want to be reappointed, so he's doing this in a caretaker role. He and his new ministers, incidentally, are all now the caretaker
government of France. If France doesn't -- it's not -- there is a government, but it's a caretaker government, and Lecornu is going to try
and find this sort of magical solution by Wednesday.
How that pans out is anybody's guess. It seems to be incredibly difficult and incredibly unlikely. But, you know, Macron's clearly wanted to give him
one last chance and -- to try and sort of get parties to see sense of perhaps the stakes being what they are. You know, he's hoping that people
might -- the party -- political parties, they're all in opposition with each other, might suddenly see the public interest. But that may be -- I
think --
SOARES: I mean, one last chance. He has a whiff of desperation, if you don't mind me saying. What does this tell you then, Sophie, I mean, about
the authority of Macron here, that he has failed yet again?
PEDDER: Well, it's a question of where you put the blame, I suppose. You know, he hasn't been the one trying to get the parties to sit down and
hammer out an agreement over a budget. I mean, that has been the responsibility of the prime ministers that he has named. So, they are --
it's his responsibility ultimately, because he's the president and he names the prime minister under the French constitution.
But the political parties, you know, I think one of the things that really has been problematic for France is this idea that there's no culture of
compromise. People see compromise as a sort of form of betrayal. And whereas in a country like Germany, you have opposition parties who are able
to sit around a table and reach a compromise, really detailed. In France, they just don't have that culture. And I think that's been the real
problem. So, you know, I think everyone has a share of responsibility in this situation. It doesn't look very pretty.
SOARES: It does not. Let's see what happens, what Lecornu can do. Sophie, great to have you on the show. Thank you very much indeed.
We are going to stay in France because Gisele Pelicot, the global icon whose mass rape and drugging trial last year shook France, has returned to
court. Pelicot was applauded as she arrived in an appeals court on Monday to hear the case of a man challenging his conviction. A landmark verdict in
December found Pelicot's ex-husband 50 other men guilty of sexual assault. Husamettin Dogan, who was sentenced to nine years in prison, denies he
intended to rape Pelicot. The 44-year-old argues that he was deceived by Pelicot's husband. A verdict is expected on Thursday.
And still to come tonight, one of Latin America's most prominent journalists is honored for standing up to power as media freedoms
increasingly come under threat. I speak with Jose Ruben Zamora's son about his father's detention, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:40:00]
SOARES: Welcome back, everyone. Global press freedom is suffering a sharpest fall amid weakening democracy, a resurgence in autocracy and the
war in Gaza where Israel has imposed a blockade on international media from entering the enclave independently.
In 2025, conditions for journalism are poor in half of the world's countries, that is according to data from Reporters Without Borders. You
can see here on the map behind me more countries turning red between now than say, what, 10 years ago or so. That's seen notably in Guatemala where
media owner Jose Ruben Zamora is jailed in what the U.N. characterizes as an arbitrary detention.
Zamora founded El Periodico, one of Guatemala's leading investigative newspapers in 1996. He was arrested in July 2022 amid a broader crackdown
on judges, human rights activists, journalists as well as opposition figures led by Guatemala's special prosecutor's office against impunity.
Prosecutors allege Zamora received money to fund his media outlet but failed to deposit the money through the banking system. He denies any
wrongdoing and his case is in limbo while he awaits a retrial. Zamora's refusal to stay silent is receiving recognition, not least from the Cluny
Foundation for Justice who just honored him at the Albies. The awards seek to highlight vehement human rights defenders. And his son, Jose Carlos
Zamora, as you can see here, accepted the honor on his father's behalf. Human rights lawyer Amal Clooney explained why defending free speech is so
important. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AMAL CLOONEY, CO-FOUNDER, CLOONEY FOUNDATION FOR JUSTICE: I think people realize now perhaps more than before that if you don't have an independent
press and you don't have an independent justice system you can't have freedom and you can't have democracy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Well, I caught up with Jose Carlos Zamora here in London and started by asking him what this recognition means to him as well as to his
family. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOSE CARLOS ZAMORA, SON OF DETAINED JOURNALIST, JOSE RUBEN ZAMORA: The message I think is -- from one part, is just how grateful we all are about
this recognition. But also focused on the importance of solidarity and the impact solidarity has had in my father's case and in what's happening in
Guatemala, and in trying to defend and resist to this basically judicial dictatorship.
SOARES: Let's expand on that because, yes, Guatemala has been has a new president since Arevalo -- President Arevalo since 2023 but you just said
that it's a judicial -- I think you said judicial dictatorship, right? Explain what is happening right now.
[14:45:00]
ZAMORA: So, what happened is that there's corrupt actors in every sector but they became allies, and they are known in Guatemala as the pact of the
corrupt. They took over the entire government and the state. And one of the last pieces they co-opted is the general attorney's office. And together
with a series of judges in the judiciary they became this judicial dictatorship because what they do is they persecute -- they politically
persecute anybody who they consider to be a dissident, a critical voice, an activist or journalist. And that's what we're seeing.
So, they open fabricated cases against you because the general attorney's office has the monopoly of criminal investigation.
SOARES: Right.
ZAMORA: So, even though they are committing crimes you can't even do anything because if you denounce them, it would have -- they themselves
would have to investigate themselves, which they will never do.
SOARES: But it hasn't silenced your father. And I hope you don't mind me saying that the apple doesn't fall far from the tree because you two are
continuing to speak out. Do you feel that by speaking out, Jose, so openly, so publicly against those kind of corrupt -- this criminal cell you're
talking about in Guatemala, do you think that will hamper his case at all, or -- I mean, you stick very much to these values?
ZAMORA: Yes. I think we all -- like my entire family and I, like we grew up in this environment and it's our life and it's what we believe in and
that's what we deeply believe in. Like those are our principles. So, I am - - I also think that nothing can happen that sadly can make my father's case worse.
SOARES: Yes.
ZAMORA: So, he is really in the worst-case scenario. Even -- it's interesting how over time all of these repressive regimes have evolved and
before it was physical threats, assassination attempts, bombs, kidnappings. But they became more sophisticated because killing journalists comes at a
very high cost internationally.
So, what they discovered is that if they own the judiciary --
SOARES: The judiciary, yes.
ZAMORA: -- they can just simply open a case against you.
SOARES: And we're seeing that in many countries, right? Many autocratic countries. Even in -- I mean, Venezuela is an example. Russia, another
example. Many other countries around the world.
ZAMORA: And Nicaragua.
SOARES: Nicaragua, very clear example.
ZAMORA: El Salvador.
SOARES: Yes.
ZAMORA: And that's I think -- that's something that I always talk about and I think it's very important. Sometimes people think that these repressive
regimes and authoritarians it is something about ideology and they think it's a leftist thing, but it is not. Like you see Venezuela is left, right?
It's communist. The same in Nicaragua. And -- but Bukele is right.
SOARES: It's a power thing.
ZAMORA: It's a power. So, the ideology is power. The ideology is corruption.
SOARES: Can I ask how your family -- because under the weight of all of this as a family trying to stay united, trying to stay on message, how is
the family coping?
ZAMORA: It's been definitely difficult to know where he is and how they treated him for most of his imprisonment because there was a period of time
where they actually tortured him during the previous administration. So, that's been difficult to deal with on a daily basis and also the
uncertainty of the process and the fact that everything is always delayed. There's actually no process. There are no hearings. There's no sentence.
He's just being arbitrarily detained.
SOARES: So, no light at the end of the tunnel so far.
ZAMORA: Yes. So -- I do think there's light and I think we're getting closer to that.
SOARES: You do think we're getting closer?
ZAMORA: Yes, yes. I think it's been a very long time and there's still some time to go but it's less than the time that he already spent there. But in
general, I think we're hopeful and you see there's a new administration. The administration, like, isn't really prepared to deal with this context
of corruption but they are doing their best. They are decent which is a good starting point.
And you do see journalists that continue to do their work, and I think that's what gives us the most hope is that you see journalists doing more
journalism and I always think that's the best defense of journalism doing more journalism and better journalism, and you do see that. And you also
see solidarity.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
[14:50:00]
SOARES: And our thanks to Jose Zamora. Of course, we'll keep across his case. Any developments, we shall bring it to you right here on the show.
U.S. President Donald Trump said he had a very good phone call with Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva, and he said they will meet
in person in the "not-too-distant future," and I'm quoting there. The Brazilian government said their call was friendly and that the president
asked Mr. Trump to lift a 40 percent tariff on Brazilian goods. Watch this space.
And still to come tonight, rescue teams are racing to save hundreds still stranded in Mount Everest after a blizzard, but it could take several days
to reach them. An expedition leader explains why, that's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: Hundreds await rescue near Mount Everest after a blizzard struck near the eastern face of the world's highest peak in Tibet over the
weekend. Rescue teams have already guided some 350 hikers to safety. However, an expedition leader says it could take up to a week for rescuers
to reach more than 200 people still stranded.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GARRETT MADISON, FOUNDER, MADISON MOUNTAINEERING: Well, fortunately, the weather has cleared up a little bit now. We've got some sunny skies, but
there's three, four, five feet of snow in places, and that has to melt first before the rescuers can get their vehicles in to where these people
are stranded. So, it's going to take some time, probably four, five, six days, maybe a week before the roads will be clear and they can get in and
help some of these people that need assistance.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Well, one survivor says three members of his group suffered hypothermia. The blizzard is rare for Everest at this time of the year.
October is a peak season when skies usually clear at the end of the Indian monsoon.
And do stick around. Next hour, my colleague Max Foster will be speaking with Alan Arnette, a mountaineering coach and expert on Mount Everest. You
won't want to miss, of course, that conversation in less than ten minutes or so.
And then, finally tonight, a legend in the literary world. Julie Cooper has died at the age of 88. Her 1980s books, known for their sex as well as
satire, became bestsellers here in the U.K., selling millions of copies. Just last year, her novel "Rivals" found a new host of fans after it was
made into a series on Disney+.
Among those remembering Cooper, her friend, Queen Camilla. She described the author as wonderfully witty and wished her hereafter be filled with
impossibly handsome men and devoted dogs. That is a brilliant message for Julie Cooper indeed.
[14:55:00]
And whether you're an avid reader of Dame Julie's saucy stories or something entirely different, we've always got a great selection of books
to inspire your next read on our book club. Coming up next time, we'll be diving into Laila Lalami's "The Dream Hotel," set in a world where people
can be jailed for their potential to commit crimes. This dystopian tale tells the story of one woman's fight for freedom in a surveillance state
that feels eerily within grasp. Take a listen to some of our conversation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LAILA'S LALAMI'S, AUTHOR, "THE DREAM HOTEL": I really think that dreams are our last islands of freedom. From the moment that we wake up until the
moment that we go to sleep, we are connected to this online world. We are constantly on our phones. We are using various devices. We really do not
get a moment of rest from that pressure, from that surveillance, and frankly, from that capitalism.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: That is coming up on the next Book Club. And of course, you can find all our conversations with a wide range of authors on our website.
Just search Isa's Book Club.
And that does it for us for tonight. Very busy hour on this Monday. Do stay right here with what we know. Max Foster's up next.
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[15:00:00]
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