Return to Transcripts main page

Isa Soares Tonight

U.S. Slashes Number of Refugees into Country to 7,500; Trump and Xi Agree to Lower Tariffs and Ease Trade Tensions; More Arrests in Louvre Heist. U.N. Calls Sudan Mass Killings a Global Failure and a Crisis of Apathy; Hurricane Melissa Leaves a Path of Destruction Across the Caribbean; President Trump Calls Xi Jinping Meeting a "12 Out of 10". Aired 2-3p ET

Aired October 30, 2025 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00]

MAX FOSTER, HOST, ISA SOARES TONIGHT: A very warm welcome to our viewers around the world, I'm Max Foster in for Isa Soares. Tonight, the U.N. calls

it a global failure and a crisis of apathy. Mass killings and no safe place to flee in Sudan. We'll bring you the latest on the country's escalating

civil war.

And a search for survivors. Hurricane Melissa's left a path of destruction across the Caribbean. Now, local residents are left to count the costs.

Plus, the U.S. President calls it a 12 out of 10 meeting with China's Xi Jinping, but was Trump bested by his counterpart? We'll be live in

Washington to discuss. Just days after rebels in Sudan seized the army's last significant holdout in Darfur, top U.N. officials are warning that El-

Fasher is descending into an even darker hell, calling the situation for civilians simply horrifying.

Today, the U.N. Security Council condemned the assault on El-Fasher by the Rapid Support Forces paramilitary group, the U.N. Human Rights Office says

it is documenting mass killings and summary executions during house-to- house searches, as civilians try to flee. The U.N. warns there's no safe passage out, saying tens of thousands of people are risking the journey to

face extortion, rape and other violence. U.N. Humanitarian Chief Tom Fletcher says Sudan's crisis represents the failure of the world.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOM FLETCHER, HUMANITARIAN CHIEF, UNITED NATIONS: We cannot hear the screams, but as we sit here today, the horror is continuing. Women and

girls are being raped, people mutilated and killed with utter impunity. I urge colleagues, if you haven't already, to study the latest satellite

imagery of El-Fasher.

Blood on the sand. Mr. President, I urge colleagues to study the world's continued failure to stop this blood on the hands. What is unfolding in El-

Fasher recalls the horrors that Darfur was subjected to 20 years ago. But what is different today is that we're seeing a different global reaction.

One of resignation. So this is also a crisis of apathy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: Well, you heard there about the satellite imagery, a reference to the fact that evidence of the atrocities can even be seen from space. Our

Nada Bashir reports on the deepening brutality. More than two years into Sudan's civil war, we strongly warn you her report does contain disturbing

images.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

NADA BASHIR, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): With each passing day, more harrowing videos emerge from El-Fasher in Sudan's Darfur region. In the

wake of the retreat of the Sudanese Armed Forces and a violent takeover by the paramilitary Rapid Support Forces. Civilians in the besieged city have

faced atrocities on an unthinkable scale.

Some of the footage we have obtained from El-Fasher is simply too graphic for CNN to broadcast. Civilians gunned down as they attempt to flee, bodies

strewn on the ground, lying in pools of blood filmed by RSF fighters. In this video, two men are stopped by an RSF vehicle. Within seconds, one of

them is shot, the other is heard pleading with the soldiers. Moments later, we hear another gunshot as the camera pans back around, the man is seen

lying motionless on the ground.

DENISE BROWN, U.N. RESIDENT COORDINATOR IN SUDAN: We have received credible reports of summary executions of unarmed men lying on the ground

being shot, and of civilians as they try and flee the city. There are still civilians who remain in El-Fasher, we're not sure how many, it could be

120,000 could be more than that.

[14:05:00]

BASHIR: The scale of these attacks are such that evidence of the RSF atrocities are now visible from space. With indicators of bodies and what

appear to be large bloodstains detected by experts at the Yale Humanitarian Research Lab. In satellite imagery of El-Fasher's Al-Saudi Hospital,

clusters of white objects consistent with the size and shape of bodies and reddish discolorization nearby appear to reflect reports of mass killings

in the area.

As documented by the Sudan doctor's network, which claims that the RSF quote, "cold bloodedly" killed everyone they found inside the Al-Saudi

Hospital, turning it into a human slaughter house. The RSF has described the claims as baseless. But according to the U.N., nearly 500 people were

killed in the assault.

NATHANIEL RAYMOND, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, YALE HUMANITARIAN RESEARCH LAB: We have seen over the past 48 to 72 hours, the proliferation of objects across

El-Fasher that are consistent with human bodies, to the point where we can see piles of bodies across the city from space. They're moving

neighborhood-to-neighborhood. They are systematically wiping out those they find that have remained.

BASHIR: While many remain trapped in El-Fasher, thousands have fled the violence on foot in search of safety. The accounts of those who survived

the journey are distressing. "They harassed the people and beat some of them. They separated the young men from the women. I don't know where they

took the men."

"There have been many tragedies. Men and women have been killed. We hope that the international community will stand with us." The leaders of both

the RSF and the Sudanese Armed Forces have faced western sanctions due to their involvement in alleged war crimes. But U.N. officials say the RSF has

displayed a pattern of systematic and often ethnically-motivated attacks on a large scale.

According to a report presented to the U.N. by a panel of experts, the RSF and its allied militias have allegedly received support from the UAE in the

form of weapons. Though the UAE has denied backing the paramilitary group, the RSF has also been accused by the United States of committing a genocide

during the ongoing civil war.

The paramilitary group has acknowledged what they have described as violations in El-Fasher.

MOHAMED HAMDAN DAGALO, HEAD OF SUDANESE RAPID SUPPORT FORCES: (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

BASHIR: Its leader Mohamed Hamdan Dagalo saying in a statement that an investigation will be carried out to hold those responsible for criminal

acts accountable. In a directive issued to its fighters, RSF leaders also called on all personnel to adhere to rules of conduct and to ensure the

protection of civilians. Evidence on the ground, however, tells a very different story.

RAYMOND: The Rapid Support Forces have surrounded the city in an earth wall called a Berm, that is high as 9 feet, so the context here is, these

people are inside what we call a kill box. They have been walled-in to be killed systematically.

BASHIR: The fall of El-Fasher could mark a dangerous turning point in the conflict, allowing the paramilitary group to consolidate and strengthen its

grip on the broader Darfur region. All the while, putting civilian lives at greater risk of violence, persecution and what aid groups are already

calling a humanitarian catastrophe. Nada Bashir, CNN in London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: Justin Lynch, Managing Director of Conflict Insights Group says foreign weapons are playing a significant role in this war. He's co-author

of "Sudan's Unfinished Democracy", he joins us tonight from Nairobi. Thank you so much for joining us, Justin. So, there are two sides clearly in this

war. Who are they being backed by?

JUSTIN LYNCH, MANAGING DIRECTOR, CONFLICT INSIGHTS GROUP: Sure. So the Rapid Support Forces who are committing the atrocities that we're seeing in

El-Fasher is mainly supported by the United Arab Emirates. You know, from the beginning of the war in April 2023, almost immediately, the United

States and western nations saw how the UAE was really facilitating weapons to the RSF.

And the Sudanese Armed Forces, which is the regular government of Sudan, has the backing of Turkey and Iran, who have supplied weapons to them. In

addition, Qatar and Saudi Arabia are their big backers. And so, really, you know, this is a war that has been going on for kind of many years at a very

local level, many decades at a local level.

But there has been this facilitation by all these international powers, which the world has struggled to really put a pause to it.

FOSTER: There seems to be very little international involvement away from that. Anyone trying to negotiate or to support any sort of resolution to

this. I mean, who is in that role?

[14:10:00]

Hi, Justin, can you hear me? OK?

LYNCH: I think that the connection -- yes, I think that the connection is kind of breaking up a bit, but I think that, you know, what's happening is

that, you know, we were very hopeful, actually, that for the first time in three years that there was going to be, you know, actually peace talks that

would end the war in Sudan this past weekend, and there was going to be a three-month ceasefire that was going to happen.

That, of course, did not happen. This was set to take place, and these negotiations were happening in Washington. And we were very hopeful that

these were going to take place. And I think that what the world has really struggled with is how to put pressure on both the foreign backers of both

sides of the conflict.

And on the kind of local parties, particularly with the kind of international backers, it really, I think speaks to the contradictions of

kind of the international deal-making that are kind of current state of global affairs is. You know, the contradiction that it kind of shows is

that, you know, the world -- the United States, the U.K., one of their main allies is the UAE.

But they're unwilling to really confront and really press the UAE for their support of the Rapid Support Forces, not only in this administration, but

the previous administration. And so, this has been a challenge for the U.S., for the U.K. and across the world.

FOSTER: And what specifically is the UAE investing in here, if I can call it that? What are they after?

LYNCH: Yes, you know, I think that's what's puzzled a lot of diplomats for a long time. I think that this story really began in 2016, 2017, when the

Rapid Support Forces, these are the forces who are committing the atrocities in El-Fasher, supported the UAE in their fight in Yemen. And I

think it's really worth noting, you know, when you speak with U.S. officials and the Biden administration in particular, you know, they say,

look, you know, the Emiratis don't have a really great track record of success with their foreign policy adventures.

You know, they had an intervention in Yemen, that didn't succeed. They had an intervention in Libya, they didn't succeed. And now they're having an

intervention in Sudan it didn't succeed. And so, you know, I think that what this -- you know, when you talk with officials who have spoken with

the foreign policy, you know, heads of the Emirati government, you know, they say that it really comes down to personal relationships, and they

really question if our -- if that proper information is kind of getting through.

And I think what's really difficult for diplomats to really understand is that, you know, they all know what's happening in terms of the military and

weapons facilitation to the RSF. But the Emiratis deny it, even behind closed doors this happened with Vice President Harris, with you know, with

the U.S. government when they -- whenever they bring it up.

And so, you know, it's just a very difficult task for diplomats to kind of get over this, because this is a very unusual behavior on the international

stage, particularly from allies.

FOSTER: But the -- surely, there's -- it comes to the point where the Emiratis look at the brutality of what's happening. I mean, it's next

level, isn't it? Where they don't want to be associated with the group that they're backing, obviously, they don't tell them how to carry out these

attacks, but they are -- I mean, they are absolutely horrific, aren't they? And at some point they're going to say, surely you know, we can't support

this.

LYNCH: You know, so far, that hasn't worked. And you know, I think what's really surprising and, you know, to kind of many is that we knew that the

situation in El-Fasher was going to happen for 18 months, for kind of many, you know for almost two years, we had been warning that this was going to

happen, and still it's occurred, right?

And I think it kind of shows that there is -- you know, this inability on the international stage, to address these -- you know, these acts which we

know not only are human rights violations, but will put Americans, westerners and of course, Sudanese and the rest of the world in harm's way

for decades to come.

What this is going to result in, is the partition of Sudan into basically two sides, one controlled by the RSF, and one controlled by the Sudanese

Armed Forces.

[14:15:00]

This will continue for decades to come and cause instability, and will require billions of dollars. And you know, it's going to be a destabilizing

consequence for many decades to come, you know, if we continue not to act.

FOSTER: OK, Justin Lynch, really appreciate your analysis on this really worrying development in Africa. But now, a Hurricane Melissa has been

downgraded to a Category 2 storm. Melissa is now heading towards Bermuda, but it's not expected to make landfall. The National Hurricane Center

predicts the hurricane could fall to tropical storm conditions later this afternoon, in fact.

This as rescue and recovery efforts continue across the Caribbean in the areas hard hit by Melissa. At least, 30 people have been killed, although

that is expected to rise in the coming days. Cuba and Haiti are amongst the countries hit with extensive damage. More than 735,000 people were

evacuated in Cuba as Melissa approached. However, Jamaica did take the hardest hit. Journalist Jonathan Petramala has a look at the damage there.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JONATHAN PETRAMALA, JOURNALIST (on camera): The agricultural loss is going to be staggering. Crops like coconut. This is one grove of coconut trees

that every single one in that grove, every single one of these trees has been flattened by the force of the winds from Hurricane Melissa. Then you

look over and you see the brown where the leaves were stripped away from the trees here, again, from the force of the winds of Hurricane Melissa.

It's like Fall has come to this tropical island. It only happens in the strongest of hurricanes. What's been astounding to see is just the effort

of everyday Jamaicans who are getting out with their machetes, with their own chainsaws to try and clear just a tremendous amount of trees and

power lines and even bamboo, because they know so many people need access to the hardest-hit area here in the western part of the island where

Hurricane Melissa made landfall two days ago.

It's just a race against time to try and get help and aid there as quickly as possible, or at the very least, just to be able to make contact with a

loved one that they still don't know if they're OK. Who are you trying to get to.?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: White House(ph), Westmoreland.

PETRAMALA: The worst hit from what I understand. How are you --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes --

PETRAMALA: Feeling about it?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So bad because -- my friend called me and told me that my house is gone, man. I'm leaving from all over, checking to see what's

going on down there.

PETRAMALA: That is a very good sign heavy equipment. We have not seen that the last couple of days as miles and miles of roadway has been cleared

again. There's only one main highway to get back to these areas. And so, it's very difficult as it's just strewn with debris from the force of the

winds from Hurricane Melissa. Near Bamboo, Jamaica, I'm Jonathan Petramala for CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: This just in to CNN. The Trump administration is restricting the number of refugees it admits annually into the country to 7,500 of those --

they will mostly be white South Africans. That's a huge drop. The United States used to allow more than a 100,000 people fleeing war and persecution

from around the world.

We're going to get more details on this and what it actually means as we get it. Waiting for identification meanwhile. Israel says it has received

what Hamas says are the remains of two deceased hostages. Coming up, how today's transfer unfolded. U.S. President Trump described it as an amazing

and a 12 on the scale of 1 to 10. So, what came out of his meeting with Chinese leader Xi Jinping? We'll dig into the details, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:20:00]

FOSTER: Ukrainian authorities report massive Russian strikes overnight. Russia's assault again targeted their energy infrastructure as Ukraine

prepares for Winter. Officials say at least three people were killed in the attacks, including a 7-year-old girl in the central Vinnytsia region.

Russia launched more than 650 drones and 52 missiles, according to Ukraine's Air Force.

Meanwhile, the Polish Defense Minister says their jets intercepted a Russian aircraft over the Baltic sea on Thursday, this as countries on

NATO's eastern flank remain on high alert for potential incursions. And breaking news out of Gaza. Hamas has handed over what it says are the

remains of two deceased hostages.

Israel says the remains were transferred via the Red Cross. The -- if the remains are positively identified, that would leave the 11 deceased

hostages unaccounted for in Gaza. Jeremy Diamond is in the region tracking these latest developments for you.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Hamas has now returned the remains of what it says are two deceased Israeli hostages.

Those two bodies were transferred to the Red Cross, and from there, brought to Israeli forces inside of Gaza. And now, those remains will be tested at

Israel's forensic institute to confirm whether or not these are indeed the remains of two additional deceased hostage.

If indeed they are, that would mean that the number of deceased hostages still in Gaza would come down from 13 to 11, still outstanding, still

unaccounted for at this stage. But if indeed, these are confirmed to be the remains of these two deceased hostages that Hamas says they are, this would

be the clearest indication yet that this ceasefire agreement between the two parties is indeed now back on track.

After we saw two days ago, Israel accusing Hamas of multiple violations of the ceasefire and choosing to carry out very punishing strikes across Gaza

as a result. Those strikes killed more than a 100 Palestinians, nearly half of whom were children, according to the Palestinian Ministry of Health.

In the wake of those strikes, we've seen both Israel and Hamas say that they are committed to the ceasefire agreement, and that it is back in

place. But this handover of additional remains of deceased hostages is critical to ensuring that this ceasefire remains in effect, and that it is

the best sign yet that the ceasefire is back on track.

Although we know, of course, that the road ahead will still likely be bumpy. But for the time-being, a ceasefire back in place. Jeremy Diamond,

CNN, Jerusalem.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: We're following tense developments in Jerusalem. Massive crowds of ultra-orthodox Israeli men have gathered for what's being dubbed a million

man march. They are holding prayers and protests about mandatory military service being extended to include them. In the past, many in the community

were exempt from the draft, allowing them to focus on religious studies.

The U.S. military reports four people are dead after another strike on an alleged drug smuggling boat in the Pacific. Wednesday's action marks the

14th known hit on a vessel. The U.S. operations started in early September and have killed more than 60 people. There have been a few survivors.

[14:25:00]

The White House says these attacks are necessary to stop drugs from entering the U.S. Critics say they're a violation of international law that

amount to extrajudicial killings. Still to come tonight, it appears trade tensions between the U.S. and China have eased following President Trump's

meeting with the Chinese leader Xi Jinping.

But what exactly did the two economic powers agree to, and what important issues didn't they actually discuss? We'll examine that. And five more

suspects in the Louvre jewelry heist are in custody. What's not in custody is the crown jewels themselves. An update on the search for them coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FOSTER: I'm just going to recap our breaking news we've just had from Washington. The Trump administration is dramatically limiting the number of

refugees it allows into the country to just 7,500 people. Kevin Liptak is at the White House for us. I mean -- I mean, what was the figure before us?

You know, in -- you know --

KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yes --

FOSTER: Six figures, wasn't it?

LIPTAK: It was massive. The last year of the Biden administration, the number was 125,000. So, this is a dramatic cut. It's actually the lowest

figure really for decades. You have to go all the way back to the 1970s to find similar figures. Even during the COVID years, during the first Trump

administration when they sharply cut down on the number of refugees who come into the United States, the number was at around 11,000.

And this is now far less even than that. And the slot -- slots that they've reserved are for what they call persecuted white South Africans. You know,

this is a group that the President has said is being subject to persecution in South Africa. He even claimed that they were being subjected to a

genocide when the President of South Africa, Cyril Ramaphosa, was here earlier this year. Obviously, the government there strongly denies that,

but those are the slots now that the administration is reserving for the refugee program.

It is notable how this new number came to be announced. It wasn't through a formal announcement. President Trump himself did not come out and declare

this number. It was put in a memo in the Federal Register, essentially through sort of bureaucratic paperwork that the administration filed to

alert sort of the government community of this new number, and they state in that document that the rationale is to focus on individuals who are

coming here and other victims of illegal or unjust discrimination in their respective homelands. It really doesn't offer a great level of detail about

why specifically they landed on this particular figure or why they're slashing this number so dramatically from the previous year's levels.

And so, this will cause all sorts of concerns. You know, refugee admissions into the United States have typically been a bipartisan cause. You know, it

was seen as a shelter for people who are facing persecution from around the world. You had Republicans as well as Democrats get behind that particular

initiative, but clearly President Trump has taken an entirely different view of this matter of immigration.

More generally, the White House and the president's advisers are very forcefully going after the number of people who can come into the United

States and which people can come into the United States. And so, I think this is going to draw a sharp reaction as people learn more about it and

learn more about what the White House's rationale was here, but certainly it's quite a striking announcement coming from the administration.

MAX FOSTER, CNN ANCHOR: I know you've only just had it, Kevin, but I mean, is your reading that it's only white South Africans that will be allowed in

effectively?

LIPTAK: Well, that's the group that this document refers to specifically. It does allow for the potential that there could be other nationalities who

are allowed in if they're determined to be victims of illegal or unjust discrimination, but that would require a determination by perhaps the State

Department or other facets of the administration before that's allowed to happen.

You do hear talk inside the administration, and this has been discussed internally ahead of this announcement about potentially admitting Europeans

if they oppose some of the migration policies in their own countries or if they oppose some of the free speech initiatives that you've heard the

president and other officials talk about.

What isn't included in here is some of the places where these refugees have typically come from, from places that are war-torn or places where people

are suffering political persecution. Those locales are not mentioned in any sort of specificity in this document, and so while it is holding out the

possibility that other places could allow refugees to come through, the only specific nationality that's listed is those white South Africans.

FOSTER: OK. Kevin Liptak, thank you. A major shift in policy there. And staying in Washington, U.S. President Donald Trump is expected to land next

hour following his five-day visit to Asia. The trip was capped off by a high-stakes meeting with the Chinese leader, Xi Jinping, where the two

leaders agreed to a truce of sorts. In the tense trade war between the U.S. and China. Mr. Trump says in exchange for Beijing's promise to crack down

on the flow of fentanyl, the U.S. will cut existing tariffs by 10 percent on Chinese goods.

The president says he also reached deals with China to delay restrictions on rare earth minerals and to resume purchasing soybeans. And while he

called the meeting amazing, Beijing was much more muted. An agreement, meanwhile, has not yet been signed, and many of the details remain unclear.

More now from CNN's Ivan Watson.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: President Xi of China is coming. I look forward to seeing him.

IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): After days of hype, the moment us President Donald Trump was waiting for his

landmarked meeting with Chinese Leader Xi Jinping a chance to reset the relationship between rival superpowers.

TRUMP: He's a very tough negotiator.

WATSON (voice-over): Warm words as they sat down face-to-face for the first time in six years.

TRUMP: President Xi is a great leader of a great country. And I think we're going to have a fantastic relationship for a long period of time.

XI JINPING, CHINESE PRESIDENT (through translator): I always believe that China's development goes hand in hand with your vision to make America

great again.

[14:35:00]

WATSON (voice-over): The world closely watching whether these two leaders can heal the damage caused by months of a brutal trade war.

JINPING (through translator): We do not always see eye-to-eye with each other, and it is normal for the two leading economies of the world to have

frictions now and then.

WATSON (voice-over): Friction that has roiled the global economy after escalating rounds of tit-for-tat tariffs and other penalties.

Speaking on board Air Force One, before leaving South Korea, President Trump appeared confident a deal had been made.

TRUMP: Every year we'll renegotiate the deal, but I think the deal will go on for a long time, long beyond the year.

WATSON (voice-over): Trump confirming that a range of thorny topics were on the table, including rolling back at least some of China's sweeping

export controls on rare earths, critical resources that are essential for the manufacturer of almost all high-tech products, from iPhones to electric

vehicles.

Also discussed, ending the war in Ukraine, China's purchase of US soybeans, a key issue for Trump's rural supporters and the global fentanyl trade.

Trump announcing he'll immediately slash fentanyl- related tariffs on China from 20 to 10 percent after his meeting with Xi.

TRUMP: I believe he's going to work very hard to stop the death that's coming in.

WATSON (voice-over): China's Commerce Ministry announced the U.S. would also halt a 24 percent reciprocal tariff on Chinese goods for a year and

suspend some export controls.

For months now, China's leader has gone toe to toe with Trump, not backing down despite punitive U.S. tariffs. In Korea, Xi demonstrated he can

negotiate with the unpredictable U.S. president to stabilize bilateral relations, even as China sprints towards self-sufficiency from American

tech.

Trump left Korea promoting a big-ticket finale to a trip that's seen him ink deals across Asia.

TRUMP: I guess on the scale from zero to ten, with ten being the best, I would say the meeting was a 12. Okay. I think it was a 12.

WATSON (voice-over): As for the Chinese leader, he released a much more restrained statement, saying his time with the U.S. president was very

pleasant.

Ivan Watson, CNN, Hong Kong.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: CNN Politics Senior Reporter Stephen Collinson joins us now. I mean, there's a lot going on, wasn't there, Stephen? I mean, was it

pleasant or was it a 12?

STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN POLITICS SENIOR REPORTER: Well, I think just looking at those pictures, it was very nice. The atmosphere was fine. But

effectively, whatever the president says about how great this deal is, we are not even back to the position we were before he started the trade war.

And that is the key thing. Americans have got a bit of a break from tariffs paid on Chinese goods, but they're still paying more than they were before.

China has agreed to resume some soybeans imports. It'll be interesting to see if it follows through on this apparent undertaking to cut down on

fentanyl coming to Mexico, which then comes into the United States.

In the past, China has not lived up to a lot of the things it would tell American presidents, especially Trump, that it would do. So, I think we

have to wait and see just to see where this goes. But what this trade showdown showed, I think, was that China has this special card of rare

earth exports, which Ivan was talking about there, which has shown it can crank up whenever it wants and stop Trump bullying it. And I think that's

the major takeaway from this meeting.

There are many reasons why U.S. presidents in the past and Trump might be justified in trying to change China's trade practices. But the way that

Trump went about it, I think, perhaps was unwise because it only ended up showing how strong China potentially can be.

FOSTER: But Trump has got this very short-term view, doesn't he? He wants to come away from a visit saying, I achieved this, that and the other. But

China doesn't have the same view because it's looking ahead decades.

COLLINSON: Right. And, you know, there's always been the case that China has played on a longer clock than American presidents who only get four

years and eight years if they're reelected. They're on a generations long project to emerge as a great superpower. But Trump's horizon, you're right,

is even shorter-term than most people.

Even when he was in business, he often emerged from a spat and declared a great deal, even if it wasn't. In many cases, that's the most important

thing. We've seen the same thing with all these wars that he's supposed to have ended, which some of them weren't even wars. It's the result that

matters. And Trump clearly wants the prestige of a visit to China, a state visit, which he said will take place next April. For now, that's the most

important thing.

[14:40:00]

But it was also important for him to put on hold a lot of these Chinese measures. Those soybean farmers in the Midwest, real Trump country, have

been suffering because China hasn't been buying any of those soybeans. And China used to be the key importer of American soybeans. So, Trump couldn't

really afford for this to go on much longer. And he wants the prestige of going to China next year. So, I think he decided it was time to declare

victory, even if, you know, we all look at the details and we know exactly what happened.

FOSTER: Stephen, thank you as ever. Still to come tonight, five more suspects arrested in the Brazen Louvre heist in Paris, but still no sign of

France's crown jewels. The latest from Paris after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FOSTER: Five new suspects linked to that audacious heist at the Louvre Museum are now in custody in France. That brings the total number of

arrests to seven. The Paris prosecutor says one of the men detained last night is believed to be part of the four-man team that carried out the

robbery, disguised as construction workers.

Meanwhile, two men arrested last weekend are now under formal investigation. And the prosecutor says they partially admitted their

involvement, although there's still progress in the investigation. So far, the stolen crown jewels are estimated to be worth more than $100 million,

still haven't actually been recovered. Senior International Correspondent Melissa Bell is just outside the Louvre in Paris with the latest.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MELISSA BELL, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Fresh developments here in France in the investigation into the Louvre robbery of October

19th. Seven people now in police custody, although we do understand from the Paris prosecutor that the jewels themselves have yet to be found.

Of those seven, two people were arrested last Saturday. Those two men now under formal investigation. It was DNA evidence at the scene of the crime

here at the Apollo Gallery that led the police to them, we understand from the prosecutor, two men who were known to police beforehand.

What we understand is that a third member of that four-man team, the two already in custody, were part of it, say the prosecutor. A third person who

was part of that four-man team that Sunday morning now also under arrest, also tracked down thanks to DNA that was found at the scene.

What we understand also is that four other people have now been taken into custody too, not necessarily part of that heist here that morning, they

were not physically at the Louvre, but authorities say that they may have answers that will help them make progress in figuring out how this most

extraordinary heist was organized.

[14:45:00]

Still, 11 days into this manhunt, the question remains where these precious, historically invaluable pieces of jewelry actually are.

Melissa Bell, CNN, Paris.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: Still to come tonight, a story of love, loss, and second chances. Loretta Rothschild joins Isa's book club with her debut novel, "Finding

Grace."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ISA SOARES, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Joining us in today's book club is Loretta Rothschild with "Finding Grace." Loretta, welcome to the show.

LORETTA ROTHSCHILD, AUTHOR, "FINDING GRACE": Thank you for having me.

SOARES: This is a truly gripping novel right from the get-go. This was my holiday read. I thoroughly enjoyed it. I told my kids not to interrupt me

any moment. And that first chapter, I have to say, is one of the best first chapters I have read. And I don't want to give too much away because I

think that really sets up the whole story. But just give our viewers a sense and listeners a sense of what it is about without, of course, giving

too much away, Loretta.

ROTHSCHILD: I think at the heart of this book, "Finding Grace" is a love story, but it's an improbable love story between two characters whose lives

are upended by a tragic event which takes place. But yes, it's hard to talk about without giving too much away.

SOARES: What is it about this book that you think that you've heard people can't put down? I mean, to me, it was a page turner, just full of emotions,

a real roller coaster.

ROTHSCHILD: I think that's exactly how I would describe it. It is a roller coaster. It is extremely propulsive. I wanted to create a book that felt

like these real-life things were happening to the reader. And, you know, when writing this book, if -- one thing I really started to understand

about grief and especially love is that they are co-pilots, they very much exist together and you don't get one without the other and one doesn't feel

-- like every -- sort of every theme of the book is obviously not original, but there's an original way that I tried to do it.

[14:50:00]

You know, we make our choices -- the choices we make are different based on the emotions running through us and falling in love I think everyone can

identify with that tumbling, intoxicating drop into love, which as a writer is exactly the kind of setting I want to put my characters in. I want them

to be in danger. And being in love is extremely dangerous. Being completely overwhelmed by grief is very dangerous.

SOARES: Given this is your debut novel. I mean, how did you -- where did you learn, first of all, how to -- I mean, often I say to my husband, I'd

like to write a book, I wouldn't know where to start.

ROTHSCHILD: Yes.

SOARES: The process did you do -- did you have classes? Did you did you start scribbling and then you handed that in? How did that all unfold?

ROTHSCHILD: So, there's actually a wonderful quote from a film -- it's not a quote, it's -- but it's dialogue between two characters. And it's Ava

Gardner. And it's a film called "The Barefoot Contessa." And she says, can you teach me to act? And he says, if you can act, I can teach you. And I

think the same is true with writing. I think if you're born a writer, if you see the world through a writer's prism, you inevitably write stories.

And I really took advantage of time during lockdown to get as much access about craft as possible. I really became obsessed by craft. It was like

this island I could swim back to because I had all these ideas and actually didn't know how to make them digestible. And I think that's always sort of

-- that's always something I wanted to know why this book worked, why this one didn't. And during lockdown, obviously, a lot of people started putting

things online that they wouldn't have and they would have been behind closed doors.

So, I definitely took advantage of that. I workshopped. I have amazing writers around me, mentors and workshops. You know, being around writers is

really -- and storytellers. They don't have to be fiction writers. A lot of my friends write screenplays. But we talk in that way.

SOARES: You know what I find -- what I love, you know, reading up and researching and reading about you is that you never shy away from your

roots. And I love that. You know, Essex Girl. You've talked about the fact that you were and quite openly a pastry (ph), you know, glamour model here

in the U.K. You're very strong in connections with your roots. How did that upbringing shape you, Loretta?

ROTHSCHILD: I think I was always around extremely supportive women. I was extremely lucky. I have a very, very -- I can't even think of a word to

explain it but my mom is very real. And my sister's the same. And it would never occur to me to shy away from something I'm so proud of it. To me,

it's sort of I get excited -- just like the other day I was with my mom, my sister, and I get so excited when I go back to Essex, and I just feel so at

home there. So, to me, it's like every part of my life, I've never ever felt -- I've just always felt like myself.

SOARES: And of course, now you're part of the Rothschild family. And I wonder whether that has put more pressure on you to try -- you know, when

writing this in terms of you had -- you feel like you had more to prove.

ROTHSCHILD: I was more worried about what my mom and sister would say than anybody else.

SOARES: What did they say? What did they say?

ROTHSCHILD: My mom just -- I mean, my mom is so proud of me and sort of in shock and very -- you know, it's nice because I think she's supported every

part of my career. And, you know, it just -- she just -- she's just proud and it sounds sort of like a cliche but, you know, you want to make the

people look directly around you. They want to speak about you when you're not there. And I think that's been the nicest kind of knowing that my mom

sort of going out and, you know, sending me photos of her with the book with friends. It's just nice.

SOARES: I mean, that speaks volumes, really, because I find that my favorite characters from the book are the women. And you can tell that you

have that bond, that you -- with your mother and that relationship, potentially as well with your sister, because you can tell your female

characters are so incredibly strong. Absolutely brilliant debut novel. Loretta, thank you very much for coming in. I'm going to give you our pen

and if you can sign it for us. There you go.

ROTHSCHILD: Absolutely. Thank you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[14:55:00]

FOSTER: And coming soon to Isa's Book Club, Hallie Rubenhold joins her with true crime book, "Story of a Murder: The Wives, The Mistress and Dr.

Crippen." Her writing reimagines what led to the notorious Crippen murder back in 1910, told from the perspective of three women at the heart of it

all. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HALLIE RUBENHOLD, AUTHOR, "STORY OF A MURDER": It is such an interesting insight into Edwardian Britain, but also the United States at this time.

It's about what's going on. And for me, what was so gripping was -- well, first of all, a murder creates an enormous amount of paperwork. And that's

true today as well. But for historians, this stuff is gold dust.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SOARES: Every year, dictionary.com picks a word of the year. But this year, it's not a word, but rather two numbers. If you have school-age

children, you probably know what they are, 6-7, a nonsensical expression used especially by teens and tweens. So, what does it mean? The most

defining feature of 6-7 is that it's impossible to define. So, we're not really going to help you. It more or less means so-so, or maybe this, maybe

that. Since June, searches for it have increased more than six times, I assume, by parents trying to figure it out.

Thanks for watching. Stay with CNN. I'll have "What We Know" next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:00:00]

END