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Isa Soares Tonight

Fire Rips Through Hong Kong High-Rise Apartment Complex; Lawmakers Say They Won't be Intimidated by FBI Investigations; Prosecutor Dismisses Election Interference Case Against Trump; Thanksgiving's Winter Storms. Dozens Dead, Hundreds Unaccounted for After a Devastating Fire Rips Through Tower Blocks in Hong Kong; Leaked Phone Call Reveals Details of Talks Between Trump's Special Envoy Steve Witkoff and a Top Russian Foreign Policy Adviser; Colombia's President Says Oil is at the Heart of U.S. Pressure Campaign on Venezuela. Aired 2:00-3p ET

Aired November 26, 2025 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00]

MAX FOSTER, HOST, ISA SOARES TONIGHT: A very warm welcome to the show, everyone, I'm Max Foster in for Isa Soares. Tonight, dozens dead, hundreds

unaccounted for after a devastating fire rips through tower blocks in Hong Kong. We're live on the ground for you with the latest. Then a leaked phone

call reveals details of talks between Trump's special envoy Steve Witkoff and a top Russian foreign policy adviser.

We'll look at what that might mean for Ukraine. Plus, Colombia's President says oil is at the heart of the U.S. pressure campaign on Venezuela, not

drug trafficking. Isa is live for us in Bogota with more on her exclusive interview. Well, the numbers are staggering and the images horrific.

Authorities say at least 36 people are dead, dozens injured, hundreds are, quote, "uncontactable". It's an evolving situation after a massive fire

ripped through a high rise housing complex in Hong Kong, several buildings in the complex are still burning as firefighters face high temperatures and

falling debris in their battle to pull up -- put out the flames and rescue people.

One of their own was killed earlier today. Rescuers are still trying to reach some of the residents trapped on higher floors, many are said to be

elderly as they wait for help. They've been told to shelter in place by closing doors and windows and sealing them any way possible. More than 700

residents have been forced into temporary shelters.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Around 2:45 p.m. in the afternoon, I suddenly heard a very loud noise. Then I looked outside and saw that in the distance, that

over by block five, there was a fire. Then I went downstairs to take a look, and people said that block five was burning really badly. So, I

immediately went back home to pack up my things. After that, I left and had been downstairs until now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: The structure was encased in bamboo scaffolding that was wrapped in fabric safety nets. It's an ancient construction technique widely used

in Hong Kong. But the practice has been under mounting scrutiny for its safety and its durability. One expert told CNN, it's highly unusual for a

fire to spread so quickly between buildings.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GUILLERMO REIN, PROFESSOR OF FIRE SCIENCE, IMPERIAL COLLEGE LONDON: The residents of the five towers that ignited later on, they had an opportunity

of a warning, early warning, and I hope they took it. It is not normal that a fire spreads from one building to another, not from a high rise building

to another.

I think it's the first time in history that it goes from a high rise to another high rise. But those residents that were seeing the first tower

burning, the -- I hope they took the chance to evacuate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: CNN's Ivan Watson live for us in Hong Kong. And thoughts with everyone who is trapped, Ivan, and also the firefighters who are really up

against it.

IVAN WATSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I mean, this has been deadly for the emergency services. At least, one fireman, a 37-year-old who

was the leader of his fire crew, killed in the first hours of this disaster. It's been more than 12 hours since the Fire Department first got

a report of a fire that had broken out at one end of this complex.

And as you can see, there are still fires burning out of control in the tower -- in these towers of this public housing development. It does look

in the past couple of hours, like some progress has been made on some of the floors that the Fire Department has been working on. But again, more

than 12 hours later and just we still see debris raining down from this.

[14:05:00]

The death toll now at least, 36 people killed, including that fireman, and then what's truly ominous is that Hong Kong's Chief Executive John Lee,

says at least, 279 people are uncountable. Now, we don't know exactly what that means, and it will take some time still. But for added context, there

are nearly 2,000 apartment units in these towers that house more than 4,000 people.

So, we're talking about a lot of potential residents here. And the Fire Department itself has acknowledged that they were getting emergency calls

from some people who were trapped inside and acknowledging that they couldn't reach them because of the extreme temperatures that had been

generated over the course of these past 12 hours.

I can't even imagine what it might be like for anybody who has been trapped inside these structures. Seven of the eight towers in this complex caught

on fire from an initial blaze, and there are going to be huge questions in this city, which I frankly think will be in shock after a disaster of this

magnitude.

How it is possible that the fire could have spread so quickly to engulf so many additional apartment towers. It is the deadliest fire that Hong Kong

has seen in decades. Max?

FOSTER: In terms of what happens next, you know, are they getting control of the fire? So, at least they'll be able to get in or people will be able

to get out. I mean, where are we with that?

WATSON: I really don't -- I mean, from our vantage point, we can't see if there have been efforts to try to go up into these buildings. But the just

sheer amount of heat that's been generated and smoke makes it hard to imagine some -- I mean, you would have to be incredibly brave to try to do

that.

We have seen on occasion drones with spotlights flying overhead. As for the people who -- you know, thousands of people have been made homeless by this

disaster. We've seen shelters, people taking shelter nearby. A lot of aid has poured in. Volunteers with charitable donations to try to help people

whose lives have quite literally gone up in smoke.

But again, the big question right now is, could there be more people who have perished in this terrible blaze? Could there be a miracle? And

somebody could have perhaps survived, and we're just going to have to continue watching. There are still many rescue workers here, and it is in

the pre-dawn hours here.

And there are still a lot of ordinary residents of Hong Kong that are coming to look at this because, again, this is a city which has a pretty

good safety record. For example, there have been a number of typhoons in recent months, and hardly any injuries even to report in these mega storms

that ripped through this city.

So, to see a fire of this magnitude with this kind of a death toll already, is very unusual. And there are going to be some important questions to

answer about how this could have happened here.

FOSTER: Yes, thanks so much, Ivan. Let's speak to Dave Downey about that. He's a former chief of Miami-Dade County, Florida Fire and Rescue. He's

been involved in many operations like this. Actually, none like this from what we understand. Speaking to a professor earlier, we just heard from

earlier saying he can't think of another situation where he's seen fires spread between high rises.

DAVE DOWNEY, FORMER FIRE CHIEF OF MIAMI-DADE FIRE RESCUE: I would agree with that. I mean, in recent history, I don't -- I don't recall seeing

that. But I think the way these buildings were constructed close together and with the bamboo and nylon sheeting over the bamboo, it led to this

massive fire.

FOSTER: As we understand it, bamboo is typically treated with fire retardant. But I guess once it gets to a certain temperature, it's

ultimately combustible. Is that right?

DOWNEY: That's true. It's incredibly hard wood, but it is very combustible. And even if it's treated, you know, how frequently is it

treated? That treatment often times evaporates off. And besides that, the nylon webbing that they hold it together with the nylon curtain that was

covering it is highly combustible.

FOSTER: There was a fire in west London, you remember a few years ago, of a tower block, and I covered that. And you know, one of the issues that

came out of that was that whilst the fire safety regulations within the building were quite strong, they hadn't counted for the fact that fire

could rise up the outside of the building and come back in.

[14:10:00]

And that appears to be what's happened here as well. So, no matter how good the fire doors and lifts and systems are within the building, you know, if

you've got this bamboo burning on the outside, it's going to be disastrous.

DOWNEY: You're exactly right. Grenfell Towers is an example where the fire traveled rapidly up the exterior of the building, two years before that,

the new year's eve fire in Dubai, the hotel, same thing, combustible exterior on the building that lends itself to allow the fire to spread very

rapidly. And if there's any opening at all, a window opening or a window fails, it allows that fire then to get into the building.

FOSTER: The advice is to stay put in Hong Kong right now, I think we're at a point where you know, that's the only advice they can give, because

there's such a big fire lower down. But that was the wrong advice, wasn't it at Grenfell as I remember, because people were told to stay in when they

should have got out.

What is the advice for people currently stuck at the top of a building that firefighters can't get into?

DOWNEY: Well, it's literally an oven. And the higher you go in the structure, the hotter it gets. So, between the heat and the smoke, it would

be unsafe to try to travel anywhere within that building. Hopefully, people were able to evacuate before it got untenable. Hopefully, the other

buildings were evacuated when this fire first started in the original building.

But right now, it would be impossible for them -- if a firefighter can't operate with their protective equipment and their breathing apparatus, then

a civilian with no protection has no chance if they exit their apartment.

FOSTER: Just looking there at the fire, you know, the water hydrants firing at the building, it appears as though it's doing very little because

we've got so many buildings. It's an incredibly difficult, huge situation, isn't it? For the firefighters. I mean, at what point do we become

concerned about the structure of these buildings?

DOWNEY: Well, as a -- as a, you know former incident commander on many serious structures, that would be a huge concern of mine right now. This

fire has been intense. It's been attacking the structure itself. And while it's a concrete reinforced structure, it can only withstand so much heat,

and so much of this is happening over time.

So, that would be a huge concern of mine right now, is those areas where they have not been able to control those raging fires that are happening

inside the building, not the stuff that's dramatic on the outside, but those fires burning inside the building, that has to be a primary concern

right now is the likelihood of a collapse.

FOSTER: OK, thank you so much. I mean, that's the reality of the situation. Let's hope they get control of it soon. Thank you for joining

us. Also tonight, new reaction over a leaked October phone call between a top Russian foreign policy adviser and U.S. special envoy, Steve Witkoff.

According to the transcript published by "Bloomberg", at one point, Witkoff appears to advise the aide on how to approach U.S. President Donald Trump

on negotiations.

Trump dismissed Witkoff's comments as standard negotiation, whilst the Kremlin says this leak shows people will, quote, "stop at nothing to do --

to disrupt peace talks. This comes as Witkoff is expected to travel to Moscow next week for another meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin.

Betsy Klein has the latest on where things stand on the ongoing peace talks.

I mean, whatever people think of what they saw in that transcript, it was a fascinating insight to what's going on behind the scenes. Betsy.

BETSY KLEIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, fascinating, and very rare. We are getting these new details about the path to that 28-point peace plan

that has been the subject of so much intense discussion and negotiation between the Trump administration and officials from Ukraine and Russia.

And it all starts with that transcript. That call between the President's special envoy, Steve Witkoff, and Kremlin official Yuri Ushakov. Now,

what's remarkable here is that, we are seeing Witkoff advise Ushakov on how President Putin should approach a call with President Trump. Witkoff

suggests that Putin take steps toward congratulating President Trump on his efforts to secure peace in the Middle East.

And I just want to read to you a little bit of that transcript of this call. It was audio obtained by "Bloomberg" and transcribed by them. Witkoff

says, quote, "just reiterate that you congratulate the President on this achievement, that you supported it, that you respect that he is a man of

peace, and you're just -- you're really glad to have seen it happen."

Ushakov responds, "I agree with you that he will congratulate. He will say that Mr. Trump is a real peace man, and so and so." Now, the President's

reaction, President Trump is to continue to back Witkoff. He says that this is a standard negotiation tactic, and Witkoff is a deal maker.

[14:15:00]

The Russians, on the other hand, say that this leak is not constructive. We heard from Ushakov, he said, quote, "some of these leaks are fake. My

conversations with Witkoff are confidential. No one should disclose them. No one." Also, it's a little bit of criticism from Republican hawks on

Capitol Hill. We heard from Republican congressman Don Bacon of Nebraska.

He says that the transcript of this call reveals, in his words that Witkoff is, quote, "fully favors the Russians". Now, I want to take you through the

timeline. This call took place on October 14th, two days after that, President Trump spoke by phone with President Putin. He announced in a

post to social media that Putin did indeed congratulate him on peace in the Middle East.

And that call really marked a shift in tone for President Trump toward favoring Russia. One day later, October 17th, President Trump hosted

Ukraine's President Zelenskyy at the White House. And we know at the time that meeting turned quite tense as the President was pressuring Ukraine to

accept territorial concessions.

Now, as for next steps, we do expect Steve Witkoff to travel to Moscow in the coming days as soon as next week for additional talks with Russian

officials, as well as Army Secretary Dan Driscoll expected in Kyiv later this week.

FOSTER: OK, Betsy, thank you so much. Still to come tonight, we bring you a CNN exclusive. Our Isa Soares spoke to Colombian President Gustavo Petro

and asked what he thinks the Trump administration really wants in Venezuela.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FOSTER: Venezuela's President sending a clear message he's not bowing to U.S. pressure. Nicolas Maduro led a huge march through Caracas on Tuesday,

vowing to defend the country against what he calls "imperialist threats". The show of defiance comes as the United States amasses warships and

thousands of troops in the Caribbean to target what the Trump administration says are Venezuelan drug cartels.

Washington has accused President Maduro of leading the Cartel de los Soles, and this week designated the group a foreign terrorist organization. Some

regional leaders are reacting to Washington's actions with skepticism, though, amongst them is the Colombian President, Gustavo Petro, who

believes this show of hostility against Caracas has nothing to do with drugs or indeed democracy.

He says it's more about Venezuela's vast oil reserves. Mr. Petro shared his views with Isa.

[14:20:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ISA SOARES, CNN ANCHOR & CORRESPONDENT: Let's talk about what's happening near Venezuela. We have seen the U.S. administration going after drug

boats, they say. We've seen more than what? Eighty people killed. And if it is about drugs, do you think that Colombia could be at risk here?

GUSTAVO PETRO, PRESIDENT, COLOMBIA (through translator): No, what lies behind is the same thing that lies behind the war in Ukraine.

SOARES: Yes, which is?

PETRO: Oil that the Americans are after.

SOARES: The Americans are chasing oil --

PETRO: And that has to do with everything I've talked about in this meeting. Which you sometimes take as a foreign issue. But it's at the heart

of the circumstances. It's called oil. Colombia, no. Venezuela has one of the largest, if not the largest reserves of oil in the world. So far, heavy

oil, mind you, and there are reserves in Ukraine. And in general, all wars of this century have had to do with oil.

SOARES: We know President Trump is transactional. You're saying he's going after Venezuela's oil. If that is the case, do you think the United States

will attack, will strike inside Venezuela?

PETRO: Oh, they're going to get the oil for next to nothing. Because that's what the anecdotal evidence suggests. Trump isn't negotiating with

Maduro on drug issues, because he's not a fool. You only have to look at the figures. Only about 4 percent of Colombia's drug production, cocaine

production, because we don't produce much else, goes through Venezuela. Just the margin, yes. Most of it is going out through the Pacific Ocean.

Most of it.

So, negotiations over oil, I think that's Trump's logic. He's not thinking about the democratization of Venezuela, let alone drug trafficking.

SOARES: Is Maduro a narco trafficker? Is he a drug lord? Is he a dictator? And should he be allowed to get on a plane without facing any of the human

rights consequences?

PETRO: Maduro's problem is called democracy. I recognize it as such.

SOARES: (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

PETRO: Lack of democracy and dialogue.

SOARES: You don't see him as the head of Cartel de los Soles?

PETRO: No Colombian investigation that is independent of the President, and in years when I have not been the president.

SOARES: (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE) you don't see him as a head?

PETRO: No, it does not show us a connection between Colombian drug trafficking and Maduro. It shows us two high-ranking Venezuelan army

officers linked to drug trafficking. But here we have had about ten, whom we have also investigated.

SOARES: So, should Maduro be allowed to get on a plane without facing any of the consequences?

PETRO: He should be. And he should be tried and investigated like any one of us. But so far in the Colombian data, not the U.S. data, which I am not

familiar with. In the Colombian legal data, there is no mention of anything called the Cartel of the Suns.

SOARES: And you're saying there's a lack of democracy with Maduro, but you're not saying he's a dictator. (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE). How

would you define yourself?

PETRO: I said Maduro's problem is called democracy.

SOARES: (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

PETRO: That's all. So, I'm not saying he's not a dictator because dictatorships fall under the concept of lack of democracy. Some more than

others. But that's how they are. So, you can't link the two concepts together because I already said it's a lack of democracy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: Fascinating interview. Joining us from Bogota is Isa. I'm wondering how this is going to be received or should be received from the

perspective there in the U.S.?

SOARES: Well, I think this is a position, Max, that Petro, President Petro has had for a long time, at least, many within his government know that is

the case. He's just putting it out there much clearer to an international news organization. But it's very much split in this country. You've got

about -- he's got about seven months or so left in his presidency.

But this was a -- you know, a fiery Petro, was a wide-ranging interview. We spoke about narcotics, policies on narcotics, which the United States is

accused of being inefficient and disastrous. Remember, Petro has been sanctioned by the United States. So, I want to tap into that. Max, I really

wanted to get a sense from him how he sees this relationship with President Trump.

They've been at each other's throats from some time, calling each other ignorant and other names, which I won't repeat on television. So, I asked

him, I asked Petro, what his sense was of this relationship that has been so frosty and so rocky. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SOARES: I would like you to have the last word. If you were to give a message to the American people, to the U.S. administration, what would be

that message, Mr. President?

PETRO (through translator): My message is the one given to all the members of the U.S. special forces. Your mission, as your oath say, is to fight

against oppression.

[14:25:00]

I only repeated that on some streets in the United States. And it also cost me. I'm going to show you something that was found in a Catholic Church in

San Francisco in the United States, which I want you to look at. And it's a bit -- I think it reflects a bit of what is happening now. This is on a

stained glass window, the kind made with colored glass.

And it's like a tribute to the U.S. veterans who won the war. They call the war against Spain, 1898 to 1902. No more, no less than almost half of the

United States or half of Mexico, Texas, California and other states that today are part of the United States but used to belong to Mexico and were

taken by force.

But if you look at the medal, it shows two U.S. officers and a Latin American woman on her knees, kneeling and naked --

SOARES: (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

PETRO: This is what we criticize the Spaniards for.

SOARES: (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE) That's happening right now in the United States?

PETRO: It's called colonization. It's called empire. It's called humiliating human beings. None of these regions had anything to do with the

United States.

SOARES: What is the message in, Mr. President?

PETRO: Now, the same is happening to us.

SOARES: America is oppressing (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)?

PETRO: Your government, your government is indeed trying to impose criteria on us that we do not want.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SOARES: And really, Max, just to break it down for our viewers, because he was giving us a bit of a history lesson there. He was basically accusing

the Trump administration, it's important to make that distinction, not the United States. The Trump administration of imperialism, of imperialistic

actions, of imposing -- of oppressing those who do not align with their vision.

So, very strong words from President Petro, who has never hold back -- have not held back, as you know pretty well, when he went to New York and

continued, this is something that many on the left here really applaud him for. But, you know, he hasn't got very long here in his presidency, seven

months.

But I would just say when I came here, Max, for this interview, I was really thinking that potentially he wanted to present some sort of olive

branch to the U.S. administration. How wrong I was about that, Max.

FOSTER: Yes, they didn't get that, Isa, today. But thank you so much for bringing us that. Still to come tonight, the tower inferno in Hong Kong.

We'll speak to a member of the International Fire Association -- Firefighters Association when we return.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:30:00]

FOSTER: More now on our top story, Hong Kong's leader, John Lee, says a task force has been set up to investigate the deadliest fire in decades.

The blaze ripped through a high-rise apartment complex in the densely populated city. It's still very much ongoing, as you can see. Authorities

say at least 36 people have been killed, nearly 300 others are uncontactable.

Firefighters say scorching temperatures and drifting debris are hindering efforts to reach people trapped inside apartments. The buildings were

cloaked in construction mesh and bamboo scaffolding. More than 900 residents of the complex have been evacuated to temporary shelters.

For some more insight, let's bring in Sean DeCrane. And he's the director of health and safety operational services for the International Association

of Fire Fighters. He joins us now live from Washington, D.C. Thank you so much for joining us.

You've got a huge amount of experience. But as I understand it, no experience of an event like this because we've never seen fire jump between

high-rises in this way. Am I right?

SEAN DECRANE, DIRECTOR, INTERNATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF FIRE FIGHTERS: Thank you, Max. It's a significant challenge. And I mean, the operations are

still ongoing and we'll see what the causes of the jump from building to building will be during the investigation. But certainly, the contribution

of the construction materials, the mesh and the netting may have contributed to that spread, creating a significant challenge for those

responding firefighters.

FOSTER: You're pointing out the mesh rather than the bamboo. Is that -- you know, which was the bigger cause for concern here?

DECRANE: Oh, I think the investigation will look at what the contributing factors were. I didn't mean to isolate just to the mesh. I was referencing

the bamboo scaffolding, the mesh, the netting that may be involved in other factors. But either which way, it was a significant challenge for those

responding firefighters.

FOSTER: We do know, though, just from the pictures, I mean, we don't know what started it, but we do know that it was spreading along the bamboo.

DECRANE: Yes. Some of the pictures I've seen, I would agree with your assessment there.

FOSTER: So, it's an ancient technique in Hong Kong. We're hearing from Ivan Watson is on the ground there saying, actually, there's a very good

safety -- fire safety record in Hong Kong. But for lots of other parts of the world, this is not many places that still use bamboo. It's pretty

extraordinary that they're allowed to use wood in this way and wrap a building in a potential fire hazard.

DECRANE: Well, I've actually been to Hong Kong a few times and I've witnessed the bamboo scaffolding and it was a surprise to me when I first

saw it. But when I spoke with people there, they have a very good track record utilizing the bamboo due to its strength.

The Hong Kong Fire Department is a very professional fire department, very well-trained fire department. So, yes, I would say it's an interesting

choice of material to use on the exterior of a building.

FOSTER: We've been talking a bit about Grenfell Tower in London, which also many people died in because the fire traveled on the outside of the

building. It does feel as though we've got another situation where the fire precautions within the building aren't the issue here, it's the fact that

there weren't the right fire precautions on the outside of the building. I mean, how much is this considered on these construction projects?

DECRANE: Well, Max, I wouldn't just classify it or categorize it as just an exterior issue and interior considerations weren't a factor. I mean, we

don't know all of the factors now. I mean, if we look at Grenfell Tower, the combustible material within the cladding was certainly the contributing

factor to that fire spread. But there were also interior design challenges, such as a single stairwell, that led to significant delays in the

evacuation of the occupants.

[14:35:00]

I don't know the layout of these towers yet, whether there were two means of evacuation. We also don't know if these towers were sprinklered or had

sprinkler protection that could potentially protect the interior of that structure from the intrusion of the fire to the interior.

In my experiences in the past in visiting Hong Kong, they typically don't sprinkler their high-rises, so that may be a contributing factor as well.

So, I wouldn't just go say this is simply an exterior fire spread because we can't introduce engineering solutions to the interior of our structures

to help those occupants and to help to responding firefighters.

FOSTER: I spoke to a former chief firefighter earlier, he was saying he's got a very big concern right now about the structure of the building, even

though it's made of reinforced concrete. Because the longer this fire goes on, it will degrade the concrete and there's a risk of structural damage,

frankly.

DECRANE: Oh, absolutely. That's definitely a concern. Anytime that structural steel is exposed to elevated temperatures for a long period of

time, it weakens the steel. We saw that in the World Trade Center collapse, that the fireproofing was actually taken off of the structural steel,

thereby exposing it to that fire.

It's interesting -- it'll be interesting to see, I obviously haven't been able to be on the ground and study it, what the performance of the

protection features are of that structure, especially the structural integrity right now.

FOSTER: I mean, I'm talking about potential collapse in the building. Am I being dramatic?

DECRANE: I don't know at this point in time. I haven't been able to look at the impact of that fire on the structural members. I would just say it

is something that the incident commander is definitely considering as this incident progresses.

FOSTER: He'll also be considering at what point he can send his firefighters in. And that is a really difficult question, isn't it? Not

just the temperature, but also the structure of the building. We've seen -- you know, we can see the images here. There's so much debris falling, not

least what's left of the bamboo structure that was around it. Take us through the thought process for a fire commander and going in to rescue

desperate people.

DECRANE: Well, our number one priority on the fire scene is life safety. And we start to deploy our resources, our firefighters to try to start

evacuating the occupants out of the building. It'd be interesting to see what kind of conditions were present when they arrived. What kind of

structural features are designed into the building to help the occupants affect egress? If there's a single exit, well, then the firefighters are

actually competing with those residents for ingress as the residents are trying to affect egress.

So, the incident commander is assessing, one, life safety, how do I get the occupants out of that building? Two, how do I start bringing this situation

under control by extinguishing the fire? What resources are available for me to do that? Are there resources that are designed into the building,

such as sprinkler systems, such as interior pump systems? Some have exterior applications of water capabilities.

So, all of that is going through that incident commander's mind while they're also assessing the safety of the scene, the safety of the

structural and the structural integrity. Are there falling debris? Is it safe for the firefighters to affect entry and for the occupants to affect

egress?

FOSTER: Sean DeCrane, really appreciate your expertise on this. I know it's difficult from being in a remote position, but lots of people are

asking questions. You've answered many of them. Thank you.

Now, the president directing the FBI to target us is exactly why we made this video in the first place. Those are the words from one of six U.S.

Democratic lawmakers now facing investigation for urging American troops to disobey illegal orders.

The fallout is deepening with the FBI looking to interview the lawmakers after President Donald Trump accused them of sedition and suggested they be

executed. All have served in the military or intelligence community, but Senator Mark Kelly is being singled out as a retired Navy captain. A source

says Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth is weighing options to punish him from reducing his rank to prosecuting him under military law. Hegseth set a

deadline of December the 10th for an investigation into Kelly's actions. Two Republican senators are now coming to the lawmaker's defense. Lisa

Murkowski says accusing them of sedition is reckless and flat out wrong.

Let's bring in former FBI special agent Asha Rangappa. She's a lecturer at Yale University. Really appreciate you joining us. We're going to talk

about that in just a moment. I just want to get some thoughts from you on something that's happened since, this news that the 2020 election

interference case against Donald Trump in Georgia has actually now officially ended.

[14:40:00]

This was considered, wasn't it, the most serious legal threat to Donald Trump. So, why do you think it was dropped?

ASHA RANGAPPA, FORMER FBI SPECIAL AGENT: I think that this prosecutor just saw a lot of legal hurdles at this stage. You know, this is a case that

really lost momentum after the previous prosecutor was disqualified from handling the case because of conflict of interest and impropriety in her

personal life with regard to another prosecutor. So, this has been stalled for a little while.

This prosecutor believed that given that there was no realistic possibility to move forward with these charges until 2029 and also that this was a

pretty complex legal theory, it's a racketeering charge that involves multiple defendants and complicated charges that in his assessment, this

was not worth pursuing at this time.

FOSTER: And in terms of the investigation into these lawmakers, it's interesting, isn't it, that Republican senators are now coming out in their

defense? I mean, they've got issues with this accusation of sedition. But, you know, what are the chances of some sort of criminal case against Kelly,

for example?

RANGAPPA: I think that the chances of an actual case, if you're talking about actual criminal charges, are very low because there's actually no

criminal conduct here. Let's just review what sedition is. Sedition is an attempt to overthrow the government by force or by force to prevent the

execution of the laws of the United States. And what you have here are lawmakers actually articulating what the law is, which is that service

members cannot follow illegal orders. They must obey the Constitution. So, there's no illegality on its face.

And I think there's also a separation of powers argument here, a potential issue, which is why these Republican members of Congress are speaking up as

well. Because, you know, the Constitution actually leaves in Congress' hands the power to make rules and regulations for the armed forces. So,

this gets to a core power of these members of Congress that now the executive branch is trying to punish them for.

So, I think this is an attempt to intimidate, maybe to chill speech. But I don't think there's any realistic possibility of any criminal charges

actually coming out of this.

FOSTER: He's accused them of treason as well, hasn't he? And just wondering how -- you know, if you go into a case like this, how it how it

can evolve, because it's a bit of a gray area untested in the past and this is often the area the Trump administration goes into so they can shift

position and just get a narrative going. And as long as they get a win out of it, I'm just wondering if there is a potential win of some kind for them

with a court martial, for example?

RANGAPPA: So, there is also something in the Constitution called the incompatibility clause, which prevents members of Congress from holding

another federal office at the same time. So, I think it's unlikely that Senator Kelly would be able would be recalled into active duty. It would be

actually constitutionally prohibited.

But I would just add here also that I don't think this is a gray area. The president can say whatever he wants. He can accuse people of treason. But

obviously, if you're going to charge someone, there has to be facts that substantiate an accusation. And there are simply is not here.

In fact, I would say that the violation that's happening here is that the FBI is under its own rules called the Attorney General Guidelines

prohibited from investigating anyone solely based on their expression of their First Amendment activity, which in this case, that is exactly what's

going on.

So, I think the bigger issue here is whether the FBI has itself dispensed with the rules that govern the normal investigations that it conducts, not

whether these lawmakers have actually engaged in any criminality.

FOSTER: Asha Rangappa, I really appreciate your thoughts on all of this complex stuff. Appreciate it. Thank you.

RANGAPPA: Thank you.

FOSTER: Now, Americans are hitting the roads or boarding flights for Thanksgiving. Unfortunately, winter storms and blizzard warnings are

getting in their way in many areas. We'll check in with the Weather Center for you to get the very latest.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:45:00]

FOSTER: Welcome back. It's Thanksgiving Eve in America, and a potent winter storm will continue to impact travel for much of the northern tier

of the U.S. A blast of Arctic air set to sweep across the country just as family and friends take to the roads and skies for holidays.

More than 6 million across the upper Midwest and Great Lakes are under winter storm alerts. Drivers in many places dealing with icy roads and

heavy snow like at the scene -- well, this scene of an incident in North Dakota yesterday.

For more on the cold, the snow, the rain, this Thanksgiving, Allison Chinchar joins us from the Weather Center in Atlanta. I mean, I feel like

I'm really ruining things.

ALLISON CHINCHAR, CNN METEOROLOGIST: No. I mean, Mother Nature has provided us a smorgasbord of all kinds of elements to go into this holiday

week.

Here's a look at video. This is actually from yesterday across portions of Minnesota. You can see heavy snow coming down. But the wind, the wind is

also picking up that snow and blowing it around, making visibility incredibly low, which obviously then, of course, leads to traffic accidents

that you saw there.

Here is the system itself. All of that purple color there indicating the snow. The dark purple is the really heavy bands of snow. And then the green

is the rain as that system continues to slide off to the east. You still have all of these winter weather alerts in effect. Some of them just for a

few more hours.

Others will go into Friday morning. Now, on top of the snow we've already had, we're still expected to get more. Most areas will pick up a few extra

inches. But some spots, especially on the eastern flank of the Great Lakes, those areas could pick up another foot of snow before it's all finally said

and done.

And as we mentioned, wind is also a big component of this system. You're still looking at wind gusts up around 40 to 50 miles per hour across the

Midwest. But by the time we get into Thursday, now you start to see the winds beginning to pick up across areas in the northeast.

So, here's a look at that system. Again, most of the rain really wraps up through the evening hours tonight. It's the snow that really lingers into

Thanksgiving Day on Thursday. And in some cases, it really doesn't even go away on early Friday either.

Here's an overall map of the U.S. Now, you'll notice much of the southern tier of the country is actually relatively nice for Thanksgiving Day,

albeit cold, but nice. The exception is going to be across portions of South Florida. It's the northern tier. This is where we're going to have

the rain, the snow, the gusty winds, all the things you don't really want to have when you're traveling.

And also, the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade is tomorrow morning, and it's going to be a windy one. Those wind gusts up around 20 to 25 miles per

hour. The temperature's in the low 40s, but when you factor in that wind, the combination means it's going to feel like it's only into the 30s. And

it's not just northern cities. Take a look at this. It's going to feel like 25 in Atlanta. Same thing in Raleigh. The teens in Indianapolis. So, those

temperatures and the wind are going to make a bitter start to the holiday tomorrow. But even the afternoon high temperatures are not expected to get

that warm.

[14:50:00]

A lot of these areas have been very lucky the last few weeks being above average. That's going to change the next few days with some of these areas

looking at temperatures about 5 to 10 degrees below average.

FOSTER: OK. Allison, appreciate it. Thank you so much. I will be back in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FOSTER: Thursday is the Thanksgiving holiday in the United States. Whilst the food is the main part of the celebration, another beloved tradition is

the annual Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade. It features floats, bands, performers, and of course the giant balloons that float over New York City.

And of course, Sara Sidner. She -- it wouldn't be the day without you, Sara.

SARA SIDNER, CNN SENIOR U.S. CORRESPONDENT: Max, you are always so lovely We are outside very close to giving you a behind-the-scenes look at what

the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade calls it's balloon inflation celebration.

And there are already people out here because this is becoming quite a tradition in New York as well where people come out and get to see the

floats and the balloons, these massive balloons that are, by the way, stories high even before they're sort of hoisted up and going through the

streets. They are really, really impressive.

And to give you some sense of just the amount of work that goes into this, I mean, you have about a dozen people that are required to try and blow

these balloons up, to inflate them with helium, and you're seeing -- this one is a Minion. You're seeing that happen in real-time, but you're also

going to see so many of these major balloons. And we're just trying to stay -- keep ourselves from getting run over here. OK. I think we're safe.

But these are not just bought and packaged, everything on this has been hand-made. So, you're seeing the painting is hand-done, is done by hand

There are about 50 people that work full-time all year long to create these. And there are some new ones. Although you're seeing one of the

favorites here, Spider-Man is there and you've got SpongeBob down here.

But this has been an incredible event where families -- and I'll just give you a look, family's showing up to see this part of it and some of the

parade accoutrement, if you will, in the barrels there as they're getting ready to hoist those up as well. Lots of folks out here just enjoying

themselves the day before.

[14:55:00]

There is a bit of a concern though, Max, for the parade. They don't worry about snow really, they don't worry about, you know, rain, but the wind.

And the wind is a factor because there have been issues in years past with the wind blowing these things, and they can be quite dangerous because

they're so large, blowing these huge floats around, these huge balloons around.

But this year the wind, going to have a little bit of wind that that might create a small, you know, inconvenience, but they hope and believe that

this will go off without a hitch. Max.

FOSTER: Oh, it will be. It'll be great. And either way, Sara, thank you so much. We're just going to go to some breaking news we're getting out of

D.C. Several people have been shot, according to reports. At least one member of the U.S. National Guard, according to a source familiar with

these early reports. These are the images -- we're getting very raw images at this point.

The shooting occurred in downtown, Washington, D.C. It was near the White House. Met police said on X that they are at the scene of the shooting in

the area, advised people just to avoid it. So, we'll get what we can more in the next hour. I'll be back in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:00:00]

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