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Isa Soares Tonight
U.S. Congress Demand Answers Over Ongoing Strikes On Alleged Drug Boats In The Caribbean; Witkoff And Kushner Head To Moscow For Ukraine- Russia Peace Talks; More Than A Thousand People Dead And Hundreds More Missing After Catastrophic Flooding Across Asia; Netanyahu Requests Pardon In Ongoing Corruption Trial; Gaza Death Toll Surpasses 70,000; Trump Threatens Land Action In Venezuela; Trump to Hold Oval Office Meeting On Venezuela; Trump To Pardon Former Honduran President. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired December 01, 2025 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00]
ISA SOARES, HOST, ISA SOARES TONIGHT: A very warm welcome to the show, everyone, I'm Isa Soares. Tonight, the U.S. Congress demanding answers over
ongoing strikes on alleged drug boats. This as President Donald Trump gets set to discuss the next steps on Venezuela in just a few hours time.
Then U.S. officials including Mr. Trump's top negotiator are heading to Moscow as part of the push for peace in Ukraine. So, where do things stand
on the negotiations? We are life for you in Kyiv with the very latest. Plus, more than a 1,000 people dead and hundreds more missing after
catastrophic flooding across Asia.
We'll have that and much more, of course, ahead this hour. But first, tonight, the White House is turning up the pressure on Venezuela, fueling
fears the two countries may be moving closer to war. This amid a bipartisan push from members of Congress demanding answers. Sources tell CNN that in
just a few hours from now, President Donald Trump will hold a meeting about the next steps on Venezuela with top cabinet officials, including Defense
Secretary Pete Hegseth.
And looming large over all of this is the legality of U.S. attacks on suspected drug vessels in the Caribbean, which have killed more than 18 --
80 people thus far.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. ANGUS KING (I-ME): The law is clear, if the facts are as have been alleged that there was a second strike specifically to kill the survivors
in the war in the water, that's a stone-cold war crime. It's also murder.
REP. MIKE TURNER (R-OH): See if that occurred, that would be be very serious. And I agree that, that would be an illegal act. This is completely
outside of anything that has been discussed with Congress. And there is an ongoing investigation.
DANA BASH, CNN ANCHOR: If you receive that order, would you have carried it out?
SEN. MARK KELLY (D-AZ): No, and --
BASH: You'll defy orders --
KELLY: I'm a guy who -- I have sunk two ships, but, you know, going after survivors in the water, that is clearly not lawful.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Now, under the microscope is this. Have a look at this. Reported September the 2nd, follow-up strike on an alleged drug vessel after the
initial attack did not kill everyone on board. The so-called double-tap strike is considered illegal under international law. President Trump is
defending Hegseth who reportedly issued the order to kill everyone on board.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Number one, I don't know that, that happened, and Pete said he did not want them -- he didn't even
know what people were talking about. So, we'll look at -- we'll look into it. But no, I wouldn't have wanted that. Not a second strike.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Well, Venezuela is accusing the U.S. of murder. Venezuelan leader Nicolas Maduro appeared publicly on Sunday for the first time in days,
putting an end to intense speculation that he may have fled the country. President Trump says he's spoken recently with Mr. Maduro, but has not
offered any details regarding that call.
Our Stefano Pozzebon is in Caracas for us, but first, I want to go to Washington and CNN Politics senior reporter, Stephen Collinson, joins me
now. Stephen, let me start with you, because we've just heard in the last few moments from Karoline Leavitt; the White House Press Secretary
regarding this double-tap strike that took place, the video on September the 2nd. I want to play what she said in terms of the clarification. Let's
listen and then get your thoughts after this. Have a listen to that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: President Trump and Secretary Hegseth have made it clear that presidentially designated narco
terrorist groups are subject to lethal targeting in accordance with the laws of war. With respect to the strikes in question on September 2nd,
Secretary Hegseth authorized Admiral Bradley to conduct these kinetic strikes.
Admiral Bradley worked well within his authority and the law, directing the engagement to ensure the boat was destroyed and the threat to the United
States of America was eliminated.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Take away from that because there are huge concerns as we've just played out some sound there, you know, on both sides of the aisle over the
legality of this strike, in particular, this double-tap strike and any potential action that may come in regards to Venezuela when we see this
Oval Office meeting that's expected to take place in, what? Three hours or so.
[14:05:00]
What did you -- what did you make of that?
STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN POLITICS SENIOR REPORTER: Well, in terms of this specific incident and whether this was an illegal act, the idea that the
two survivors on the wreckage of this boat still represented a threat to the United States under the administration's own reading of the law.
That raises all sorts of questions that will be the subject of a congressional investigation it now appears. It should be pretty possible
for congressional investigators if they really wanted to find out exactly what happened here, given the video evidence and no doubt the orders sent
down the chain of command.
More broadly, what I think the White House is doing is trying to shut this down, both by defending the Secretary of Defense, Pete Hegseth, denying
reports that it was he who ordered this second strike. We know that Hegseth ordered the overall strike on this boat. The reporting that we have from
CNN and the "Washington Post" is not clear whether he ordered this follow- up strike.
It seems that the White House is now trying to put this on the admiral, rather than the political leadership of the Pentagon and the
administration. But this is also an administration that has cut many corners. It's dismantled a lot of the legal safeguards within the Pentagon.
And on the legality of these strikes overall, it's still being very opaque.
It says under the law of war, the United States can defend itself and its allies. These alleged traffickers are terrorists. Therefore, it has the
right to go after them. That is a line of reasoning that is troubling many people on Capitol Hill, and the legal and constitutional scholars say is
very problematic. So, there are huge questions here, not just about the strike, but the legality --
SOARES: Yes --
COLLINSON: Of all the strikes against the speedboats in the Caribbean. Before we get to the question of whether any U.S. military action against
Venezuela would happen, and if it did, whether that would be legal in itself.
SOARES: Yes, stay with us, Stephen, let me go to Stefano, who is in Caracas for us. And Stefano, we have seen -- you and I have spoken about this at
great length, I'm not sure. Do we have Stefano? Stefano, can you hear me? I'm not sure he can hear me.
STEFANO POZZEBON, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Fine, Isa, sorry, as you can imagine, the music here in Caracas is quite loud. And this is how a march, a pro-
government march in Caracas looks like normally. A lot of people on the street, frankly, more than I was expecting, to be honest, Isa, this Monday
morning.
But clearly, I think that the threats coming down from the White House have rallied more people than in the last few weeks. We also could imagine
further escalation would bring even more people on the streets. And of course, I don't know if you can hear it, but at the bot -- at the end of
the road, there is a massive stage with a very big and loud Hi-Fi speaker.
Here in Caracas, the news is that we have been able to see Nicolas Maduro yesterday, on Sunday evening, Isa, it was the first time that he appeared
on TV since late on Thursday, when he did appear on a -- in a controlled environment, and it was the first time that he was being seen in Caracas
since the previous Wednesday.
That is remarkable because, as you probably know, Nicolas Maduro is a leader that spends hours daily on television, and not being able to see him
for a few days, just a couple of days actually gave way to speculation that he might have left the country or been in hiding. Nicolas Maduro is sending
up the message, Isa, that, frankly, he's ready to stay.
He's hunkering down here in Caracas, surrounded by his supporters who are now marching from -- we are here in front of a couple of ministries, but
these people are going to march towards the presidential palace in Miraflores, in the center of Caracas, to show Maduro their support, and to
show him that they support his stance, which is essentially not -- it's calling out to Trump's bluff. They are almost saying we are prepared for
whatever is coming down from the United States. Isa?
SOARES: Stefano Pozzebon there for us in Caracas this hour. Thanks very much, Stefano. Let me go back to Stephen, and Stephen, you were talking
about the legality of not just the September the 2nd strike, but the strikes we've seen overall. This is a conversation I've had with many NGOs
on this right from the get go, who raised this concern.
There's also another aspect of this, and this is Intelligence, right? If these committees find that the facts, as they have been alleged, that, you
know, that we have been reporting that people inside that boat on that September the 2nd strike were, in fact, incapacitated or even defenseless,
Stephen, it -- how -- what are we likely to see? I mean, under the law, is it murder? Is it a crime? What would happen then?
[14:10:00]
COLLINSON: Well, the remedy if this was someone in uniform, would be a court martial, but at the same time, this -- as I was saying, this is a
Pentagon that has decided that it wants to strip away a lot of what it sees as the barriers in the way of what it calls U.S. war fighters. That is one
of the signature goals of this administration.
So, I think you do have to start to consider whether it would take action against somebody in the uniform branch that was accused of going over a
line. I would say probably that the position of the Defense Secretary, if this was proven to be illegal, would be in question just because somebody
would potentially have to take the political fallout of this.
And Pete Hegseth has been on rather thin ice at various times. I think it's also going to be interesting to see how conscientious the Republicans are
in Congress. Both the Armed Services Committees in the Senate and the House have pledged rigorous oversight into this. On the Republican side, they are
led by lawmakers who do have some sense of independence and obligation.
So, you could see a serious investigation here, the likes of which we have very rarely seen from Republicans into either Trump administration.
SOARES: Yes, very rare, of course, in this second term. Stephen, as always, great to see you. Thank you very much indeed. And in about 20 minutes or so
time, we'll get more on how Mr. Trump's threats may bring strikes on land in Venezuela closer. I'll be speaking with James Story; a former U.S.
ambassador to Venezuela. I'll ask one of the most pressing questions for U.S. foreign policy.
Could the Trump White House go to war with Caracas? Do stay tuned for that conversation. We'll turn now to the push to find peace between Russia and
Ukraine. President Trump's top negotiator, Steve Witkoff, is heading to Moscow right about now. He's scheduled to meet with Russian President
Vladimir Putin on Tuesday.
Mr. Trump's son-in-law, Jared Kushner is also attending those talks. The two men, along with U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio, met with top
Ukrainian officials over the weekend, as you can see there in Florida. The U.S. is trying to get Ukraine and Russia to agree on how much territory
Russia gets to keep, and how much of a security guarantee Ukraine gets from Europe.
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy is in Paris today for talks with French President Emmanuel Macron about those European security guarantees
and ensuring Ukraine's independence. For the latest, go to Ukraine, I want to bring in CNN's chief international security correspondent, Nick Paton
Walsh.
Nick, good to see you. Just give us a sense then of the mood on the ground there after these weekend talks, and is with the news that Witkoff is now
going to Moscow. What is the mood like?
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: I think there's clear anxiety as to exactly what is in the plan that Witkoff is presenting.
I suspect that the details of that are fully known to Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, although there is always some slight sense of
uncertainty that this appears to be being packaged as a U.S. proposal to Russia, for which the Ukrainians are kind of contributors trying to assist
at certain times.
Zelenskyy himself busy today with Emmanuel Macron of France for much of the day, and then on a phone call with Keir Starmer of the United Kingdom, the
U.K.'s Prime Minister, and Trump's envoy, Steve Witkoff himself, I presume at that point trying to ensure that whatever was decided in Florida with
his negotiating team and Secretary of State Marco Rubio and Witkoff was known amongst Ukraine's European allies.
But ultimately, we are still a little unsure of exactly what Witkoff will be taking with him to the Kremlin. Zelenskyy himself clear that the
outstanding points of tension here revolve around territory. It's pretty clear, I think, that at this stage, if Witkoff is going to have another
attempt at trying to sell a peace deal to a Kremlin that had been open and clear about how they don't see any need for peace until they get the
territory from Ukraine that they want, or they'll take it militarily.
They said that if Witkoff is going to make a proposal to Vladimir Putin in the next 24 hours, it will likely involve some sort of fudge or a way of
allowing Russia to feel it's achieved some of its territorial war goals without necessarily disturbing Ukraine's sense of redlines and sovereignty
as well.
Zelenskyy clear repeatedly today how he wanted to see security guarantees as part of any potential deal, and also France's Emmanuel Macron clear that
they wanted Europe to be part of any final deal, and that what, in fact, we're seeing being taken to the Kremlin in France's perspective is the
beginnings of a process here.
An awful lot moving very fast indeed, not least, the fact that in on Friday, the top negotiator for Ukraine and Zelenskyy's Chief of Staff,
Andrii Yermak, resigned after anti-corruption investigators searched his home in the early hours of Friday morning.
[14:15:00]
That has, I think it's fair to say, significantly weakened Zelenskyy here at home, trying to draw a line under it by the resignation of his number
two. But ultimately that has been hanging in the background for weeks now. Has this left Ukraine more vulnerable to concessions? Certainly, the
frontline situation would have made that the case definitely where Ukraine is under significant pressure across various parts of the frontline.
But I think the real focus for tomorrow is exactly how is Witkoff going to package a deal for Vladimir Putin that makes him feel like he's getting the
ground that he wants, and then at the same time here, makes Ukraine feel that they've not somehow crossed a red line or inflicted upon themselves a
wound they're going to regret in the months and years ahead. Isa?
SOARES: Yes, crunch week, that's for sure for Ukraine. Nick Paton Walsh there, good to see you, Nick. Thank you. I want to now welcome in a special
guest with extra perspective on the Ukraine peace talks. He's Oleksandr Merezhko; a member of the Ukrainian parliament and the Chair of the
Parliament's Foreign Affairs Committee.
Oleksandr, great to have you back on the show. Let me just pick up with what our Nick Paton Walsh, probably you were hearing him there in Kyiv, was
saying. He was talking -- there's a sense of anxiety, but what he also said is, you know, be interesting to know, we don't know at this stage, I'm not
sure whether you have any more information on this. You know, what exactly is Witkoff taking to the Kremlin? Do we have a sense of where Ukraine or
what Ukraine has put forward?
OLEKSANDR MEREZHKO, CHAIR, FOREIGN AFFAIRS COMMITTEE, PARLIAMENT OF UKRAINE: Thank you for having me. Of course, we don't know yet what Mr.
Witkoff is taking to the Kremlin dictator. But I can assume that it's related to three outstanding issues which were already mentioned. First of
all, territorial issue, because Putin continues to insist on withdrawal of Ukrainian troops from the remainder of the Donetsk Oblast.
But which is totally unacceptable for us. Another issue, of course, will be revolving around security guarantees, in particular, Ukraine membership in
NATO, because for us, membership in NATO is the only reliable guarantee of our security and our survival as a nation.
SOARES: So, on those points, and I will break them down in just a moment. But you know, we know that Putin, Oleksandr, has been pretty much
unwilling, right? To compromise on any of the demands that we -- from what we know thus far. Where do you think there is room for potential maneuver
if there's room at all? Because the importance here is to keep these talks going, albeit slowly. But where do you think there is room for maneuver?
MEREZHKO: First of all, we should take into consideration the fact that Putin hasn't abandoned his Maximalist demands, which means surrender
Ukraine. And as you can understand, it's totally unacceptable for us. But I think that the way out of this difficult situation would be to return to
the initial proposal by President Trump with regard to unconditional ceasefire.
I think it would be the best starting point under the circumstances to secure unconditional ceasefire along the current line, frontline, and then
to start serious negotiations.
SOARES: But on the unconditional ceasefire, I mean, is this something that you think that President Putin would accept? I mean, some may say even that
they have made huge gains, of course, just around Pokrovsk in the last few months.
MEREZHKO: Putin continues to be obsessed with destruction of Ukraine. This is his ultimate goal. And of course, he will never be satisfied with any
agreement which allows Ukraine to survive. Let's be clear about that. At the same time, he might agree to serious negotiations only under huge
pressure.
So, at this point, the reasonable thing to do would be to exert maximum pressure on Putin, and by providing necessary weaponry for Ukraine, by
applying additional sanctions against Russian economy and against economy of Russian allies.
SOARES: Let me ask, you mentioned there, Oleksandr, some of the points, of course, the sticking points that we have heard so far. And that's regarding
territorial issues, right? Which seem to be the most difficult, according to President Zelenskyy, speaking today in Paris. Let me just play to what
he said today in Paris, and we can discuss. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, PRESIDENT, UKRAINE (through translator): The territorial issue is the most difficult. The issues of money and
reconstruction, and I am speaking honestly and we have discussed this, are of course, hard to finalize without the presence of our European partners
because the money is in Europe.
[14:20:00]
To me, this has not seem entirely fair, and the issue of security guarantees is also crucial. We need concrete commitments from the United
States, and concrete commitments from Europe.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Well, on the territorial issues, of course, the plan just for our viewers, just to step back a bit, Oleksandr, the plan proposed that the
entire -- entirety, pardon me, of Crimea, Luhansk as well as Donetsk, right? Be recognized as de facto Russian. I mean, that is a red line for
Ukraine, right? So, I just don't see where we're going to see any sort of movement on the Russian side, whether they will accept that.
MEREZHKO: Yes, of course, it's a red line, not only for Ukraine, but also for all countries --
SOARES: Yes --
MEREZHKO: Which respect international law. It goes against -- and it's also red line for the United States. I would like to remind about, so-called
Crimean declaration, which was adopted under the first presidency of Mr. Trump, so-called Pompeo Declaration. This is about the fact that United
States has pledged not to recognize, under no circumstances, any territorial claims of Russia with regard to occupied Crimea.
So, it's absolute -- it's absolute necessity and principle of the U.S. foreign policy. So, I'm absolutely sure that our friend, the United States
will never agree to recognize these attempts at annexation of Ukrainian territory by Russia.
SOARES: Yes, I know, as you were talking, Oleksandr, I'm seeing that President Trump has spoken with the French counterpart, Emmanuel Macron,
discussing apparently the situation in Ukraine. And Mr. Macron emphasizes, you and I were discussing just there, the importance of security guarantees
and as well as their territorial issues.
We shall see what comes out of tomorrow's meeting. Oleksandr, always great to have you on the show. Thank you very much indeed. And still to come
tonight, Pope Leo is in the middle of an official visit to Lebanon. We'll tell you the special message he had for young people. And then, after
predicting the charges against him, would collapse in court.
Israel's Prime Minister reverses course, formally requesting a pardon. We'll have reaction from Jerusalem just ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: Pope Leo XIV has been meeting with religious leaders and young people during his trip to Lebanon. Have a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(CHOIR SINGING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[14:25:00]
SOARES: And the pope is in the middle of a three-day visit to the country. He spoke about the importance of peace in the region. Pope Leo also urged
young people not to leave Lebanon for a future elsewhere. He asked them to help their country, saying, quote, "it takes tenacity to build peace. It
takes perseverance to protect and nurture life."
Our Ben Wedeman joins me now live from Beirut. And peace is exactly what this region needs. Ben, so what exactly was his message? And critically,
how was it -- how is it been received?
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, first of all, he's been received with incredible enthusiasm. People here, of course, have
been through several long, hard years of economic crisis, the Beirut port blast, the war with Israel. And this trip has just been a lot of happiness
really, from the very beginning.
Lots of enthusiasm, and not just from Christians, from Muslims as well, who are happy to see such a prominent world figure come here. Many people are
saying on social media, they're happy that, for instance, here in Beirut, the daily power cuts have been reduced during the pope's visit, many of the
roads he's been on have been repaved.
So, there's a palpable improvement since he came here. Now, as far as his message, he continues to stress not only the importance of co-existence,
but also the need for Lebanese, young Lebanese of all denominations to stay in this country. Because of course, this is a very literate, highly
educated country where the young are very skilled and can find work abroad.
And because there's such a large Lebanese Diaspora, they have the connections that it's much easier for them to move abroad, which is, in a
sense impoverishing the country. So, what he told, for instance, this evening at the Maronite Patriarchate in Bkerke up in the mountains, he told
a very vibrant youth gathering there that you need to stay here for the good of the country.
And in fact, we heard, sort of testimonials from a number of young Lebanese, Muslim as well as Christian. One young woman, a Christian was
saying that she had gone on an educational program to France with a young Lebanese woman, a Muslim from the south of Lebanon. They became friends
there.
And during the war after they'd come back to Lebanon, the woman in the south of the country, her house was destroyed and she went and stayed with
the Christian friend up in safer areas. They cooked, she said, they prayed, they laughed and they cried together. Other Lebanese young men saying that
he could have gone overseas to stay with his relatives in Canada who promised him they could find work, housing, perhaps even a path road
pathway to citizenship.
But he wanted to stay here. So, really, the pope's message is, you know, keep hope, don't lose hope. Do your best to stay in Lebanon, to keep this
country as vibrant as it is today. Isa?
SOARES: Ben Wedeman for us in Beirut. Good to see you back there, Ben. Thanks very much. Now, he's been on trial for alleged corruption for years,
always insisting he'd be found innocent in court. But now Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is reversing course, formally asking for a
pardon. Israeli President Isaac Herzog says he's considering the request with great care and responsibility.
Opposition leaders want him to reject it. They point out Mr. Netanyahu do not admit guilt as traditionally required. U.S. President Donald Trump
paved the way for this unprecedented request, if you remember, repeatedly calling for Mr. Netanyahu to be pardoned. And CNN just learned that leaders
spoke by phone earlier today, Prime Minister Netanyahu says his trial should end so he can work with Mr. Trump to advance vital interests.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, PRIME MINISTER, ISRAEL (through translator): My personal interest has been, and remains to continue the legal process to
its end until full acquittal on all charges. But the security reality and the national interest require a different course. The state of Israel faces
immense challenges alongside tremendous opportunities to repel the threats and realize the opportunities. National unity is required. The continuation
of this trial is tearing us apart from within.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Well, protesters are turning out in Tel Aviv, saying Mr. Netanyahu must not be allowed to dodge the legal process.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He is a criminal and he should be standing on trial just like every other citizen in Israel. And we won't let him to run away
from his crimes and from sitting in jail. We know that Trump has asked to exonerate him, but Trump is not an Israeli.
[14:30:07]
There's still law in Israel, and that's fine. Let him confess his crimes, let him claim his guilt and responsibility, and then ask for a pardon. We
see that as, you know, understanding that he's about to lose these trials.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Let's get more on this from our Oren Liebermann in Jerusalem. So, Oren, I mean, clearly, as we see from some of those videos, there are many
-- some people not happy. Talk us through, then, how this is being received, and what is likely to happen here. Is there a timeline that we're
looking at that the president has to decide by?
OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN JERUSALEM BUREAU CHIEF: Isa, there have been anti- government protests throughout the war, and then even before that, when this government attempted to push through a judicial overhaul, and this can
be seen largely as an extension of those protests.
A large percentage of the country simply wants to see Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu out, and the pardon request, if granted, is essentially
giving him a way out of the corruption trials that have been going on for years now and are expected to continue for years, at least partially
because Netanyahu keeps canceling or delaying the dates in which he has to give testimony.
The process itself is largely up to President Isaac Herzog, the sole authority in Israel who can grant a pardon, and it is expected to take
several weeks. He has said he will do it with the interests of the State of Israel in mind. But it's worth noting in the one-page letter that Netanyahu
and his lawyers wrote, submitting this formal request for a pardon, there is no admission of guilt, no expression of remorse, and no promise about
how this process will change or affect future actions, and that's where a lot of this anger is coming from.
In fact, in the letter, Netanyahu tries to say that the pardon will let the country come together. He treats the trial and the corruption charges he
faces as the divisive element instead of the person facing those charges. At this point, President Isaac Herzog has not indicated which way he will
or how he will make his decision, but again, the process is expected to take several weeks.
And of course, Isa, this can't be separated from the pressure campaign we're seeing from President Donald Trump in the U.S. to try to make sure or
at least push for Netanyahu to get that pardon.
SOARES: Yes, exactly. And I'm glad you brought in President Trump because I understand that they both have spoken today. This, as the death toll in
Gaza has passed 70,000, of course. Where are we, just bring us up to date, Oren, on the next phase of negotiation? Because it seems like we've all
lost sight of this.
LIEBERMANN: Well, it looks like the effort to move forward to phase two of the ceasefire deal, which went into place in October, is stuck. There was a
critical step with the passage of the U.N. Security Council resolution that created a mandate for the international security force that goes into Gaza,
but the actual establishment of the force itself has yet to happen. We have yet to see a force come to fruition, and it seems like the countries that
maybe had been willing to send troops in, we don't appear to be seeing that same sort of willingness. So, it appears the effort to move to phase two of
the ceasefire deal in any real way is stuck at the moment.
Meanwhile, as you pointed out over the weekend, the number of Palestinians killed in Gaza since the beginning of the war surpassed 70,000. That's for
two main reasons. First, recovery teams keep recovering bodies from the rubble as they go through that rubble, and that number is expected to rise.
Gaza's civil defense estimates there are some 10,000 people buried under the rubble, so we will see that number keep rising.
And on top of that, Palestinians have been killed by Israeli forces, many in a series of strikes that were in retaliation to Israeli forces coming
under fire in Gaza. But a number of Palestinians have been killed as they've approached or crossed the so-called yellow line, which demarcates
between Israeli-occupied Gaza and the part controlled by Hamas.
Israel views these as a threat and says it's terrorists who are acting suspiciously. But over the weekend, that number included two children.
Their father told us today that they had gone out to seek firewood to keep the family warm in the winter when they were killed by Israeli forces.
Israel over the weekend says the two acted suspiciously as they crossed the yellow line and posed a threat to Israeli forces.
SOARES: Oren Liebermann for us there in Jerusalem, the South. Thanks, Oren. Good to see you. And still to come tonight, is the U.S. preparing to strike
land inside Venezuela? That is one of the fears of President Nicolas Maduro. I'll discuss with James Story, a former U.S. ambassador to
Venezuela. That is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:35:00]
SOARES: Well, in a matter of hours, U.S. President Donald Trump is expected to hold a meeting at the White House where he'll set out the next steps on
Venezuela. Lawmakers from both sides of the aisle are questioning the legality of U.S. strikes on alleged drug boats in the Caribbean Sea and the
Eastern Pacific. So, in this area here and right there on the Pacific Ocean, which have destroyed so far 22 boats and killed at least 83 people
since September the 2nd.
In that September the 2nd strike in particular, the U.S. military reportedly hit one of the suspected drug boats and then it hit it again,
killing the survivors. Some are suggesting this second hit attack could amount to a war crime.
For its part, Venezuela has accused the U.S. of murder. This is some of the scenes, men after publicly acknowledging for the first time that some of
the citizens were among those killed by U.S. strikes. The U.S. has amassed more than a dozen warships and some 15,000 troops in the region. It gives
you a sense of the scale of the force close to Venezuela.
My next guest joins us with a wealth of experience from the region. James Story served as the U.S. ambassador to Venezuela from 2018 to 2023. James,
great to have you back on the show. Let me start off with this meeting we're expected to see at the Oval Office. I think it's around 5:00 p.m.
Eastern time. We are seeing bypasses and pressure now on this administration following that double tap or alleged double tap on September
the 2nd. Where do you see this is going?
[14:40:00]
AMB. JAMES STORY, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO VENEZUELA: Well, I think the founders were pretty clear when the Article 1 branch of government was
designed, it was the Congress, and they have responsibilities here, the authorized use of military force, which was reinforced in 1973 with the War
Powers Act. So, certainly the Congress is going to have a role to play.
They're going to want to know more about what's going on. And when you juxtapose it with the pardoning of former President of Honduras, Juan
Orlando Hernandez, for drug trafficking, he was tried and convicted for drug trafficking. I think there's a fundamental question to ask. Show us a
little more proof about what's happening in the region and what the intentions are of the executive branch going forward.
SOARES: And on Honduras, now that you've mentioned it. I mean, how much is this really double standards? How damaging is this for U.S. credibility?
STORY: Well, it certainly calls into question the reasoning behind all of this. I, of course, ran counter-narcotics in the Western Hemisphere. I knew
or know Juan Orlando Hernandez, as well as his brother, both of whom were tried and convicted and were sentenced to very long jail sentences for
bringing narcotics into the United States.
Now, let me be very clear. I don't believe anybody is sympathetic to the plight of drug traffickers, but there are rules of engagement. I believe
that the role and responsibility of Congress is to ask these questions. There should be a good debate with the White House about what's happening.
SOARES: And we heard from the White House press secretary, Karoline Leavitt, in, what, in the last half an hour or so, and she declined, James,
just so you know, to detail what threat exactly was posed by the survivors of the first boat strike -- when a second strike then was deemed necessary.
Pete Hegseth, the secretary, did say regarding the double tap strike on this alleged drug boat that it was lawful and in compliance with the law.
If the facts prove out to be true from what we've heard so far, would that be lawful in your view?
STORY: Well, I'm no lawyer. You know, I'm a retired diplomat. But what I do know is that there is this idea of giving quarter to your enemy when you
attack. And generally speaking, that's how we operate.
Now, the question, I think, before us outside the legal realm, what are the next steps going to be? Are we going to see land strikes instead of
Venezuela? Well, where's the president going with Maduro and company who have now been designated a foreign terrorist organization? I think it's
important for Congress to engage the president on this issue. And I'm glad they're having this discussion. A little more transparency would go a long
way to helping explain what's happening to the American people.
SOARES: Yes. And look, credibility is at stake. But also, we haven't had any sort of intelligence being shared. In fact, even with the journalist, I
think is something that we've been trying to press them on. But look, President Trump did put out a directive for airplanes and pilots to avoid
Venezuelan airspace. And that, to me, James, is suggested perhaps that an attack was imminent.
When you and I spoke, I think it was at the beginning of -- maybe the second week of November, you said, you know, if anything's going to happen,
it's going to happen something three weeks because you can't have this force, this amount of force, right, for that long. Are we -- is this where
we are right now? Do you think we are edging towards a war here?
STORY: Well, I certainly -- I don't believe we're edging towards a war, but we are certainly edging towards some kinetic action. And I recognize that's
a distinction, perhaps not a big difference. I believe to the extent that the president has boxed himself in some on this particular issue. I would
imagine that anything short of taking some directed action will be seen by Maduro and company. And that also includes our strategic adversaries, Cuba,
as well as Cuba, Nicaragua and others as a net negative for U.S. foreign policy.
So, I think that the president is now at a point where he's going to make a decision and it would behoove him to actually make an action, right? I
think that's in his way of thinking. I think that action potentially could come soon. I know the president said, don't read anything into it. But
certainly, the first step in doing something like this, taking a kinetic step, is that we close down the airspace and we issue a notum to airmen
saying, hey, this is this is restricted airspace.
So, I'm of the opinion this is either additional pressure on the Maduro regime and attempt to negotiate a quick exit from Maduro or we're getting
closer to that moment where we'll strike.
SOARES: Let's see what comes out of that seems from the call. I'm just looking at Miami Herald. And Maduro is asking for amnesty for any crimes.
There are huge questions around that. He also wanted safe passage right for himself and his wife and his son. We shall see where that leads. James
Story, as always great to see you, James. Thank you.
As we were just discussing there with James, whilst the Trump administration vows to fight cartels in Venezuela, the president recently
announced he will grant a full and complete pardon to a convicted drug trafficker serving time in U.S. prison.
[14:45:00]
Former Honduran President Juan Orlando Hernandez was one year into a 45- year sentence for helping drug traffickers move cocaine to the United States. Earlier, the Trump administration defended its decision, claiming
the charges against Mr. Hernandez were maliciously motivated. Just have a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The people of Honduras have highlighted to him how the former president, Hernandez, was set up. This
was a clear Biden over prosecution. He was the president of this country. He was in the opposition party. He was opposed to the values of the
previous administration. And they charged him because he was president of Honduras.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: As this comes, this Honduras awaits the results of Sunday's presidential elections in which two conservative challenges are virtually
tied. President Trump endorsed one of them, Nasry Tito Asfura. To detangle these contradictions, and they are contradictions, I want to bring in
Patrick Oppmann, who is following this story from Havana.
And, Patrick, I'm not sure whether you could hear James' story, the former ambassador, the U.S. ambassador to Venezuela, but he was pointing exactly
that, the contradiction, in light, of course, of what we're seeing in Venezuela, pretty much, in many ways, undercutting the president's argument
in regards to drug trafficking. How is that being received in Honduras?
PATRICK OPPMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So, you take the indictment that's against Nicolas Maduro that accuses him of cocaine trafficking. You take
the indictment that charged the former president Hernandez of Honduras with drug trafficking. And, you know, they're talking about several cocaine
loads for Nicolas Maduro. Serious charges, to be sure. That's what we're aware of, the public information.
Juan Orlando Hernandez was convicted of setting up a superhighway of cocaine, prosecutors called, from Honduras to the United States. 400 tons
of cocaine. He was in league. There's a mountain of evidence. He was convicted of this, of being -- working, essentially being an employee of El
Chapo Guzman, the Pablo Escobar of the day. I don't think there's an official, you know, since Manuel Noriega, who has been convicted, again,
he's convicted, he's in prison, of moving more drugs to the U.S., certainly much more drugs than Nicolas Maduro is publicly being accused of.
And the distinction appears to be that he was a president who was to the right, at least pretended to be, assisting U.S. law enforcement. We know
now that he was not. And Nicolas Maduro is considered by President Trump to be a narco-communist and a leftist regime that, you know, like Gustavo
Petros in Colombia, that this administration has serious, serious differences with, to say the least.
But this is a contradiction I don't think anyone can detangle, because as we are threatening military action, war, I think is an appropriate term,
with Venezuela, President Trump has promised, vowed to release this ex- president of Honduras, who's not accused of drug trafficking in Honduras, he's convicted by U.S. federal prosecutors with so much evidence, I follow
this trial so closely, of essentially betraying the U.S. government and behind the U.S. government's back, not very secretly always, because some
of these drug shipments had his name written on them, but there was a mountain of evidence against him, and Donald Trump is simply saying that he
thinks he was treated unfairly, and that he should be released, perhaps in an effort to influence the elections in Honduras, but that doesn't seem
enough, it's really baffling. Isa.
SOARES: Yes, it is baffling, very contradictory indeed. Good to see you Patrick. Thank you. And still to come tonight, deadly cyclones wreak havoc
in parts of Southeast Asia and Sri Lanka. We'll look at relief as well as rescue efforts, that's just ahead for you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:50:00]
SOARES: More than a thousand people have been killed after storms triggered flooding as well as landslides across parts of Asia. In Sri Lanka, rescue
efforts are underway after cyclones swept across the island nation. More than 350 people were killed in what the country's president is calling an
unprecedented disaster. A separate storm system ravaged parts of Southeast Asia.
Heavy rain triggered landslides and flooding that submerged buildings in Thailand. Indonesia was hit hardest with over 500 people killed. Homes have
been washed away and communities cut off from critical supplies.
Meanwhile in Iran's capital, 15 million residents are being warned they may need to evacuate as the city faces a major water crisis. After weeks
without rain, fears are growing that the taps may soon run dry. Iran's president has suggested Tehran locals may need to leave, though it is
unclear how and where they would actually go.
And it's not just the capital that is struggling, around 20 Iranian provinces haven't seen a single drop of rain since the start of the rainy
season at the end of September.
We are going to take a short break, but I'll see you on the other side.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:55:00]
SOARES: Well, we've officially made it to the final month of the year. And with that comes a time for reflection on 2025. However, some of it might
get you your blood pressure rising quite considerably.
The Oxford English Dictionary announced their word of the year for 2025. And it is rage bait, defined as online content deliberately designed to
elicit anger or outrage by being frustrating, provocative, or offensive. The dictionary goes on to describe it as content typically posted in order
to increase traffic or even engagement.
And if that doesn't provoke you, I mean, in fact, madden you, it seems no dictionary is safe from online doom and gloom. Last month, if you remember,
Cambridge Dictionary named parasocial its word of the year, describing a connection with people they don't know, including artificial intelligence.
And while the Macquarie Dictionary went with A.I. slop, defined as slow quality content created by generative A.I., often containing errors and not
requested by the user. We'll have to hope. In fact, I was hoping there's some more uplifting words await us in 2026.
That does it for this hour. Max Foster's up next with "What We know."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:00:00]
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