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Isa Soares Tonight
Trump Says He And Hegseth Didn't Know About Second Boat Strike; U.S. Envoys Witkoff And Kushner Meet With Putin In Moscow; Putin Accuses European Leaders Of Trying To Block Peace Deal; Trump Says The U.S. Is Prepared To Attack Alleged Drug Traffickers By Land In Venezuela; Trump Holds Cabinet Meeting; Former Honduran President Released From Prison; Tanzanian President Defends Deadly Crackdown. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired December 02, 2025 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00]
LYNDA KINKADE, HOST, ISA SOARES TONIGHT: Hello, I'm Lynda Kinkade, I want to take you to the White House where President Trump is holding a cabinet
meeting and taking questions. Let's listen in.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The Prime Minister actually nominated me along with about 78 other countries for the Nobel Prize. I'm
the only one that was nominated by almost a 100 countries that didn't get it. But that's OK. But I saved a lot of lives. I saved a lot of lives.
But Iraq nominated us for the Nobel Prize, and that was great honor. You know, we didn't expect that from Iraq. Iraq has been in a much different
place since the taking out of Iran, the nuclear capability. Yes, let's get to another question --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President, on Ukraine -- on Ukraine --
TRUMP: Here we go, this guy is a beauty. Go ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Secretary Rubio mentioned the meeting is ongoing in Russia today. Do you have any update from Mr. Witkoff and Mr. Kushner?
TRUMP: No, because I've been spending too much time with you. I mean, we're spending a lot of time in here. We wanted to do this very -- you talk about
being open and transparent. This has to be the most transparent administration in history.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No firing(ph) in --
TRUMP: We spend a lot of time answering your questions and giving you a lot of good, you know, good results. I mean, I think everybody here gave you
good results. But no, I don't. I will have after I leave here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But do you hope for a breakthrough or is it not worth --
TRUMP: I don't know. Look, I don't know. All I can tell you is that we're trying very hard to get to save 25,000 to 30,000 people, mostly men, mostly
soldiers every month. Twenty five thousand to thirty thousand soldiers. It's impossible. That's half a stadium. Take a big football stadium, that's
-- take half of those people in a stadium and they're wiped out.
They're killed every month. It's crazy. That war is crazy. And would have never happened with me. And it would -- and it didn't happen for four
years.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You mentioned potential arms raise, can you elaborate anything on that? Are you talking about --
TRUMP: Yes, I will if they come in through a certain country or any country, or if we think they're building mills for -- whether it's fentanyl
or cocaine. I hear Colombia, the country of Colombia is making cocaine. They have cocaine-manufacturing plants, OK? And then they sell us their
cocaine. We appreciate that very much. But yes, anybody that's doing that and selling it into our country is subject to attack.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So not necessarily just Venezuela.
TRUMP: No, not just Venezuela. No. Venezuela has been very bad. Venezuela has been really bad in something else, probably worse than most. But a lot
of other people do it too. They would send murderers into our country. They would empty their jails into our country. They sent people into our country
that we don't want.
They sent their drug dealers and their drug people into our country. They sent people from their mental institutions into our country, and we're
getting them out. That was bad. That was real bad. And they also sent drugs. Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: On Tim Walz, Mr. President, do you think he should resign over the fraud scandal in his state?
TRUMP: And who should?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tim Walz over the fraud scandal in his state?
TRUMP: Look, I think the man is a grossly incompetent man. I thought that - - from the day I watched J.D. destroy him in the debate --
(LAUGHTER)
TRUMP: I was saying, who is more incompetent, that man or my man? I had a man and he had a man, they were both incompetent. And I had a man and a
woman, I thought she was very incompetent too. But then she was leading the field, and I think she's leading the field the next -- the nomination.
Anyway, look, that's up to them.
That's up to the Democrats. You know, the problem with them is, they have really bad policy. And I'm not going to say what it is because I don't want
them to change it necessarily --
(LAUGHTER)
TRUMP: Because I want to run against it, whether it's -- it's not going to be me, it's going to be somebody that is going to -- probably sitting at
this table. It could be a couple of people sitting at this table. It could be a couple of people running together, sitting at this table, you know.
But I want them to win because we've done a great job for this country, and I want that to be carried forward.
And you know, I think we have -- I think we have a tremendous bench, really a tremendous bench. But no, I think that Walz is a grossly incompetent
man. There's something wrong with him. OK?
[14:05:00]
There's something wrong with him. And when you look at what he's done with Somalia, with Somalia, which is barely a country, you know, they have no --
they have no -- anything. They just run around killing each other. There's no structure. And when I see somebody like Ilhan Omar, who I don't know at
all, but I always watch her. For years, I've watched her complain about our constitution, how she's being treated badly, our constitution, the United
States of America is a bad place.
It hates everybody, hates Jewish people, hates everybody. And I think she's an incompetent person. She's a real terrible person. But when I watch what
is happening in Minnesota, the land of a thousand lakes or however many lakes they have -- and they got a lot of lakes. But this beautiful place --
and I see these people ripping it off.
And now I'm understanding and you're going to look at that, Scott. I hear they ripped off -- Somalians ripped off that state for billions of dollars,
billions every year, billions of dollars, and they contribute nothing. The welfare is like 88 percent. They contribute nothing. I don't want them in
our country, I'll be honest with you, OK?
Somebody said, oh, that's not politically correct, I don't care. I don't want them in our country. Their country is no good for a reason. Their
country stinks and we don't want them in our country. I can say that about other countries too. I can say that about other countries too. We don't
want them, the hell -- we've got to -- we have to rebuild our country.
You know, our country is at a tipping point. We could go bad. We're at a tipping point. I don't know if people mind me saying that, but I'm saying
it. We could go one way or the other, and we're going to go the wrong way if we keep taking in garbage into our country. Ilhan Omar is garbage. She's
garbage. Her friends are garbage.
These aren't people that work. These aren't people that say, let's go, come on, let's make this place great. These are people that do nothing, but
complain. They complain. And from where they came from, they got nothing. You know, they came from paradise, and they said, this isn't paradise. But
when they come from hell and they complain and do nothing but bitch, we don't want them in our country. Let them go back to where they came from
and fix it.
(APPLAUSE)
TRUMP: Thank you very much, everybody. Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President has major opportunity --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President --
TRUMP: Yes --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you guys --
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You can come this way.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you, thank you, press. Thanks, guys. Thank you.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you, press, let's go! Let's go! Thank you --
KINKADE: You've just been listening to Donald Trump there at the White House, taking questions on a variety of issues, from local domestic issues
to, of course, foreign policy, including those strikes on boats off the coast of Venezuela. He was in particular asked about that so-called double-
tap strike that firstly destroyed a boat and then killed the survivors on that boat.
We're going to get to more of that in just a moment. But first, I want to turn to the developments on Russia and Ukraine. At this moment, two of U.S.
President Trump's most trusted envoys are inside the Kremlin. Steve Witkoff and Mr. Trump's son-in-law, Jared Kushner are meeting with Russian
President Vladimir Putin to talk about the White House peace plan for Ukraine.
They've been meeting for more than two hours so far. Witkoff and Kushner are no doubt telling the Russian leader what they heard from Ukrainian
officials at a weekend meeting here in the U.S. And today's Kremlin sit- down was late getting started as Mr. Putin made the Americans wait more than an hour while he delivered remarks for an investment forum.
Ahead of that meeting, the Russian President had strong words for European leaders, who he accuses of trying to undermine the Trump peace plan.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VLADIMIR PUTIN, PRESIDENT, RUSSIA (through translator): They themselves refused peace negotiations, and are interfering with President Trump. They
have no peace agenda. They are on the side of war. And even when they try to allegedly make some changes to Trump's proposals, we clearly see that
all these changes are aimed at only one thing, to block this entire peace process, to put forward demands that are absolutely unacceptable for
Russia.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KINKADE: Well, Russia is claiming a key battlefield victory. It says it's captured the eastern city of Pokrovsk, which was once an important supply
hub for the Ukrainian military. Ukraine says its forces are still in control of parts of the city. Well, for the latest, I want to welcome CNN's
Matthew Chance, who joins us from Moscow.
Great to have you with us there, a busy day there in Moscow. So, this meeting at the Kremlin was meant to happen sometime after 5:00 p.m. local
time.
[14:10:00]
Just how long did the President Putin keep the American officials waiting? Was that delay intentional?
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CHIEF GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, I'm not sure it was intentional or not. I mean, Vladimir Putin was giving a speech, a
keynote speech at an international investment forum, that's sort of annual event that had been pre-planned several miles away from the Kremlin.
And so, he was -- you know, he arrived a couple of hours after the sort of guide time that was given to us by the Kremlin about when the meeting was
going to take place. So, it was meant to take place around 5 O'clock, it eventually happened at about 7:45 in the evening. But that was a couple of
hours ago, more than 2.5 hours ago now, or about 2.5 hours ago.
But that meeting has been going on for. So, it's obviously, you know, quite intensive. It's obviously sort of wide-ranging. They've got a lot of topics
to discuss, and a lot of detail to discuss as well, because I think one of the objectives of the U.S. delegation, such as they are, Steve Witkoff, the
Trump special envoy, and of course, Jared Kushner; President Trump's son- in-law, who is also part of this, sort of American delegation that's come here.
And are trying to sort of explain and convince Vladimir Putin of the sort of concessions that they've been speaking about with Ukrainian negotiators
over the course of the past week in Geneva and at the weekend in Florida as well. To see whether there's any appetite on the Kremlin side. Appetite by
Vladimir Putin to sort of take that deal and to pull back from the war in Ukraine, and to go for -- go for a peace deal.
That's what they're trying to sound out here. We've not had any indication yet about what's being discussed, but we do know there are other people at
the meeting. Yuri Ushakov, who is sitting at the right hand of President Putin, his foreign policy aide, basically, he's there as well. Kirill
Dmitriev, who is the head of the Russian Direct Investment Fund, sort of the sovereign wealth fund, also a key presidential aide who has been sort
of overseeing the relationship with Steve Witkoff and Jared Kushner as well.
And we're told by the Kremlin in the past few minutes, just before I came on the air now, that there is expected to be a briefing afterwards by Yuri
Ushakov, who will speak to the media about what the content of the discussions were with the outcome was, you know what happens next? But at
the moment, we're pretty much in the dark waiting to see what happens and when this meeting has already gone on for nearly 2.5 hours, eventually
breaks up.
KINKADE: OK, we will come back to you when we get a further update on that meeting. Matthew Chance in Moscow, thanks very much. So, what does Ukraine
think about all of this? Well, Volodymyr Zelenskyy spoke to the Irish parliament today as he continues traveling across Europe to rally support.
He's hoping Europe can help him push back on some aspects of Mr. Trump's peace plan that he says are unacceptable for Ukraine.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, PRESIDENT, UKRAINE: Help us achieve it, and never lose your faith in Ukraine. Thank you. Thank you Ireland. Glory to Ukraine.
Thank you.
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KINKADE: Our colleague Nick Paton Walsh is in Kyiv tonight and joins us now live. Good to have you with us, Nick. So, we heard from President Zelenskyy
there speaking to the Irish parliament, saying that a community of nations will make a just and lasting peace. From those in Kyiv tonight, what are
they hoping to hear from Washington as these talks in Moscow unfold? And are they looking for some explicit assurance that no deal, no agreement
will be made without Ukraine's full consent.
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I mean, I think it's fairly clear at this point that no agreement can be made without
Ukraine, a party to this war, signing on to it. That's always been the obstacle in the past. The broader issue, ultimately, is whether or not the
United States wishes to put pressure on Volodymyr Zelenskyy to accept terms until this point he would not like to do.
Now, we don't know precisely what it is that Steve Witkoff has taken with him to present to Vladimir Putin, but it is clearly the product of multiple
hours, if not days, of meetings with Ukrainian negotiating team in Florida. Now, there was a second meeting Monday morning between Witkoff and Rustem
Umerov; the chief Ukrainian negotiator, and then after that, Volodymyr Zelenskyy briefed his European allies with Witkoff on the phone as well.
So, it's fairly far-fetched to imagine that Witkoff isn't fully apprised of what Ukraine's position is, and probably that of the European allies, too,
whether that proposal is a full reflection of that, we don't know at this particular point.
[14:15:00]
And it is entirely possible as it's been held out by some Ukrainian officials, that what is presented to Putin doesn't completely reflect what
was decided in those meetings. That's essentially the chance we're taking here. But look, this is not Witkoff's first attempt to try and get a piece
to move here. It is really his first attempt while dealing with both negotiations with the Ukrainians and the Russians.
And so, he may be wise to the fact that it's foolish to present to Putin something that the Ukrainians will immediately dismiss. Zelenskyy himself
said a couple of days ago how six and a half hours of the talks in Florida were about the current status of where you D-mark the frontline right now,
essentially what might be the territory ceded or swapped or whatever you want to choose the phraseology, if there is some kind of land deal as part
of this peace deal.
But today in Ireland, a plaintiff tone to some degree. I think it's fair to describe how he's talking there as trying to remind people of the sacrifice
Ukraine has made, simultaneously saying we cannot have this war repeat on us again.
We cannot have another third or fourth invasion, depending on how you want to count it if Moscow is again deceiving the world in its diplomacy, but at
the same time too, you hear more and more in his rhetoric, let's talk about the red lines of there never being territorial concessions, more talk about
sovereignty, and a man clearly under significant pressure, too.
I think it's fair to say that Dublin is a convenient place for him to wait for the results of this, whether it involves him potentially seeing Witkoff
on the way out or indeed going to see President Trump if they feel a deal is really within reach here, potentially, we simply don't know. But really,
Europe and Ukraine waiting to see exactly what it is that Witkoff has put on the table.
And indeed, if there's any slight change in Putin's position of essentially having Maximalist goals and saying he will get them militarily if they're
not ceded to him without a fight. Lynda?
KINKADE: Yes, exactly. We will see if there's room for compromise. Nick Paton Walsh in Kyiv, thanks very much. And we are going to stay on this
story. For more perspective, I want to welcome former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine William Taylor, who joins the show live from Kyiv. Great to have
you with us, ambassador.
WILLIAM TAYLOR, DISTINGUISHED FELLOW, ATLANTIC COUNCIL: Thank you Lynda, it's good to be here.
KINKADE: So, as we speak, Vladimir Putin is meeting right now with the U.S. officials' envoy, Steve Witkoff and of course, Jared Kushner; the
President's son-in-law. After earlier accusing Europe of blocking the U.S. peace effort. What did the original U.S. peace deal look like before
European and Ukrainian feedback, and how much has changed since then?
TAYLOR: Well, we don't know exactly how much has changed. We do know about the first deal, the 20 -- so-called 28-point plan, which was apparently
drafted by the Russians, given to Steve Witkoff, who made some changes, and the Russians then leaked the 28-point plan. So, you and we and we all read
every point of that plan.
And people were pretty surprised at how pro-Russian it was until they learned that the Russians had drafted it. The Russians had put into that
plan things that they want. And they were pleased with that. And President Putin undoubtedly liked that plan since his folks had drafted it. And the
Europeans and Ukrainians didn't.
And so, Marco Rubio got the Europeans and Ukrainians together and came up with a different plan, either 19 or 20 points, that is much more to the
Ukrainians liking.
KINKADE: And of course, we heard from the Ukrainian President today, Zelenskyy, saying that, you know, any settlement must safeguard Ukrainian
territorial integrity. Given the current Russian military advances we're seeing right now on the ground, especially around those contested towns,
what would be acceptable to Kyiv at this point in time, where is the red line?
TAYLOR: Lynda, they're going to have to decide that. But most Ukrainians that I talked to here, acknowledge the fact that the Russians occupied 19
percent of their country. Donbas, Crimea, 19 percent of Ukraine's internationally-recognized territories occupied by the Russians, and the
Ukrainians don't like it, but they are not ready to try to take that back militarily.
So, the way that they see it is, it will come back someday. So, we're not going to recognize that 19 percent that's occupied by the Russians as part
of Russia. We will not -- we will not recognize that, nor should anyone. But they will acknowledge the fact that 19 percent is under the occupation
of the Russians. That may be -- that may be the way that they can move this forward.
KINKADE: And given the advancements we're seeing from Russia on the battlefield, claiming another town in that Donetsk region, how does that
shape Ukraine's view going into these negotiations?
[14:20:00]
TAYLOR: As you say, the Russians have slowly and at great cost in terms of Russian lives, which Putin apparently doesn't care about, have ground out
small gains in the east along that line, including, as you're saying, the possibility of some portion of that town called Pokrovsk. The Ukrainians
say it's not yet lost, but the Russians have been grinding toward the Pokrovsk for now over a year and a half.
So, it's been a long time. A lot of Russian soldiers killed, and that's what's going on now. What needs to happen, of course, is the Ukrainians
getting an additional supply of weapons that they can use to stop the Russians and then stop the Russians from moving forward, and then having a
ceasefire, which is what they're talking about now.
KINKADE: And, of course, we've heard from European leaders warning that they -- any deal must essentially include them. Arguing that any U.S.-
Russian deal, an agreement alone would not -- would place an undue burden really on Ukraine. So, with such divisions among allies, who really sets
the terms here, and can a lasting peace be negotiated without full European support?
TAYLOR: Europeans have a big role to play. They are talking about providing a security guarantee to the Ukrainians to ensure that the Russians don't
invade again, to deter the Russians from invading again. And the Europeans have stepped up in that planning. They also have a big stake in the funds.
Lynda, you've probably wrote -- reported that there's $300 billion worth of Russian central bank reserves that are frozen in western banks and mostly
in European, mostly in Belgian institutions.
And so, the Europeans have a big role to play, and they should certainly be consulted, and they should be part of these discussions.
KINKADE: Yes, well, certainly heard Russia put through ideas about how they want those funds to be used. William Taylor, we'll have to leave it there
for now, former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine, thanks very much.
TAYLOR: Thank you, Lynda.
KINKADE: Well, still to come tonight, Pete Hegseth says the U.S. has only just begun striking alleged drug boats in the Caribbean. What President
Trump's Defense Secretary had to say today about those targeted strikes.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KINKADE: Welcome back, I'm Lynda Kinkade. I want to turn to Asia now where devastating storms have left more than 1,200 people dead and hundreds more
missing, tens of thousands have been forced from their homes.
[14:25:00]
Cyclone Senyar brought untold destruction to Indonesia, Malaysia and Thailand with a week of heavy rain leaving entire communities cut off and
hampering rescue efforts. In Indonesia, landslides and flooding killed more than 600 people. Southern Thailand has reported nearly 200 deaths. And in a
separate storm in Sri Lanka, the death toll from floods and mudslides has reached at least 410. Our Mike Valerio reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MIKE VALERIO, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Across flood- ravaged Sri Lanka, the military called in to airlift fuel for families cut off from the rest of the country by Cyclone Ditwa. Social media video from
Sri Lanka's Air Force showing a child rescued, pulled up to safety as neighboring India and Pakistan also send an aircraft to help.
In Indonesia's west Sumatra, signs of Cyclone Senyar's human toll are everywhere. Orange body bags carried by rescue and recovery teams. This man
lost both his mother and mother-in-law, saying they were sick and could not walk.
MUHAMMAD RAIS, PALEMBAYAN RESIDENT: This building used to be my house. This was a Mosque and that was my parent's house. Our rice mill, my younger
brother's house and my in-laws.
VALERIO: This is a before view of Songkhla Province in Thailand from October, and this is a view from Sunday. A snapshot of west Sumatra from
the Summer and one from over the weekend. Sri Lanka's President, Anura Kumara Dissanayake, emphasizing the scale of the catastrophe.
ANURA KUMARA DISSANAYAKE, PRESIDENT, SRI LANKA (through translator): As a country, we are facing the largest and most challenging natural disaster in
our history. We also recognize that what we are undertaking is the most difficult rescue operation in our nation's history.
VALERIO: In Sri Lanka, more than 24,000 police, Army and Air Force personnel are still trying to reach families stranded by floods,
authorities said.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In the night, things were normal. By the next morning, everything was under water, including our house. Seven of us, including
children, took refuge on the top floor. There are another 15 adults still there, their houses are completely under water.
VALERIO: Back in Indonesia, mud in some areas seen coming up to the top of doorframes. This woman says her child was the one who rescued her, and the
flood was as high as the attic. She's got no food from the government yet, only from relatives. All as hundreds remain missing across the worst-hit
areas of Indonesia and Sri Lanka. Mike Valerio, CNN, Beijing.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KINKADE: Well, still to come tonight, the U.S. Defense Secretary vows to continue American strikes on alleged drug vessels despite a growing
controversy and bipartisan calls for an investigation.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:31:19]
KINKADE: Hello, I'm Lynda Kinkade. Welcome back.
Well, U.S. President Donald Trump says the U.S. is prepared to attack alleged drug traffickers by land in Venezuela if necessary. It comes amid a
growing firestorm over a follow-up U.S. strike on an alleged drug vessel. Some Democrats and Republicans are calling the September 2nd incident a war
crime, while the White House says the U.S. strike was lawful and conducted in self-defense.
A short time ago, the president told reporters that he and Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth didn't know about the follow-up attack.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: As far as the attack is concerned, I didn't - - I still haven't gotten a lot of information because I rely on Pete. But to me, it was an attack. It wasn't one strike, two strikes, three strikes.
Somebody asked me a question about the second strike. I didn't know about the second strike. I didn't know anything about people. I wasn't involved.
I knew they took out a boat.
I can say this. I want those boats taken out. And if we have to, we'll attack on land also, just like we attack on sea. And there's very little
coming in by sea.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KINKADE: Well, the defense secretary says the U.S. has only just begun striking narco-terrorists. He added, we always have the back of our
commanders, referring to the admiral he says gave the order to carry out the so-called double-tap strike.
CNN's Stefano Pozzebon is in Caracas for us, but I'm going to start with our senior politics reporter., Stephen Collinson, in Washington. Good to
have you both with us.
So, Stephen, you know, we are hearing calls from both sides of the aisle for an investigation into this. Just exactly what is the White House's
explanation for who ordered this strike and on what grounds?
STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN POLITICS SENIOR REPORTER: Well, every day we seem to get a little bit more information. They started off saying this was a
complete fake news, nothing to see here. And now, they're talking about it in a Cabinet meeting. What seems to be happening is both the president and
the defense secretary, Pete Hegseth, are saying that, well, we back the commander who carried out the strike, General Bradley, but the second
strike was nothing to do with us. We didn't see it. And we didn't know there were any survivors. So, while ostensibly they're sticking up for
their commander, they're also making it very clear that if there is any blame to go around, it doesn't go to them.
I think we're going to see if the Republicans on Capitol Hill are willing to genuinely investigate this, because there will be plenty of information.
These strikes are on camera. The Pentagon put around the initial strike, the initial camera footage of the September -- the second strike, but they
didn't show us the second strike. That will be available to committees on Capitol Hill.
You're having some of the key players here come up to Capitol Hill, including the general potentially, to testify under oath about this. So,
eventually, this will come out. But I think the overarching point here is that even if there was no illegal conduct during this second strike, as the
administration insists, the entire legal basis of all of these strikes and what the president is doing in the Caribbean is very shaky.
Right now, the administration's position is, well, we've declared all of these people narco-terrorists, they're terrorists, they're a threat to the
United States, and therefore, we can kill them all. That is something that is on a very questionable legal foundation.
KINKADE: It certainly is. And I want to go to Stefano, just about the reaction you're seeing there in Venezuela. It doesn't seem that this is all
phasing the president Maduro right now. How is this playing out there?
[14:35:00]
STEFANO POZZEBON, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I think that Maduro is, honestly, for lack of better words, he's quite enjoying this moment, seeing his
opponent, Donald Trump, being dragged into further and further questions and explanations around this terrible incident, where, by the way, 11
people, probably Venezuelans, indeed lost their lives.
But I also want to point to another piece of news that we received, and we are tracking here in Caracas, Lynda, that should also please Nicolas
Maduro, which is that, according to Maduro's government, the United States have requested authorization to conduct two more deportation flights down
here towards Caracas this week. I'm talking about a flight on Wednesday and another flight on Friday.
That authorization was, of course, grantly -- granted very, very rapidly by the Maduro's government, which pointed out in communication with us that
this is in complete contradiction with the order that Trump gave via Truth Social just Saturday, calling for all airmen and narco-traffickers alike to
consider the space over Venezuela, the airspace over Venezuela, as to be completely closed.
Of course, the Maduro's government very, very happy to point out the contradiction between one strategy of maximum pressure and perhaps even the
potential for conducting land strikes here in Venezuela very, very soon, if you listen to what the president just said up in Washington less than an
hour ago.
And at the same time, still the desire to continue these deportation flights that, of course, have never actually stopped. We were in the
airport here in Caracas less than two weeks ago, tracking a flight that came down from Phoenix, Arizona. Well, this week there will be two more
flights coming down from probably Phoenix, Arizona, once again, because we're seeing that most of the migrants that are arriving here in Venezuela
are now coming from the west coast of the United States.
And then, of course, if you point that to the White House asking why did they declare the airspace over Venezuela is closed, while at the same time
requesting access for some of their flights to deport migrants here, well, it's another big contradiction. And it adds to, frankly, the quagmire and
the swamp that the White House suddenly finds itself in their strategy towards Venezuela, as Stephen was pointing out.
KINKADE: All right. Stefano Pozzebon, Stephen Collinson, great to have you both with us. We will stay across this story. Thanks very much.
Well, a former Honduran president convicted of conspiring with drug cartels to bring cocaine into the U.S. is now a free man. And it's all thanks to a
pardon from President Trump. Juan Orlando Hernandez was serving a 45-year prison sentence in West Virginia. Members of Honduras' ruling party, in
turn, have come out to criticize Trump for the pardon and for interfering in the country's recent presidential election.
Hernandez was tried by a New York court last year. Evidence pointing to the former president trafficking more than 400 tons of cocaine through Honduras
to the U.S. In exchange, he received bribes to fund his assent in Honduran politics. Our Maria Santana has reported from outside the court right as
his guilty verdict broke. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARIA SANTANA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (through translator): The verdict, when the jury foreman was asked what the ruling was for charge number one,
conspiracy to import cocaine, guilty. For the second and third charges, which involve the use of weapons during this conspiracy, when asked for the
ruling, guilty, guilty. Juan Orlando Hernandez was sitting with his legal team. Before the jury entered, they were praying.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KINKADE: Maria Santana joins us now from New York with the latest. This is simply extraordinary. Former Honduras leader who was convicted of drug
trafficking, essentially flooding America with cocaine, sentenced to 45 years. You covered the trial and now pardoned by President Trump, just a
little bit over a year into his sentence.
Just explain why and what you're hearing in terms of reaction from this, because it certainly seems to undercut the president's anti-drug message.
SANTANA: Yes, that's right, Lynda. I mean, this is an ex-president who, during the trial, we heard from some drug traffickers say that he used to
brag about how he was stuffing cocaine up the noses of Americans. And now, we have this stunning development in the case, the president of the United
States, Donald Trump, pardoning him a total and unconditional pardon, even as he touts his hardline anti-drug trafficking campaign in the Caribbean,
striking these vessels that he says are suspected of carrying drugs into the United States.
And also, amid the tension with Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro, as we just heard in the previous report, the U.S. government, the administration
has labeled Maduro as a foreign narco-terrorist.
[14:40:00]
Trump has been asking for his ouster or for his resignation. But now, one of the most notorious drug-linked politicians to have ever been convicted
in the United States in a U.S. courtroom is free. Until now, Hernandez had been the highest-ranking foreign official to be charged and convicted in
the U.S. for drug trafficking.
But late last night, according to Hernandez's attorney, he walked out of a federal prison in West Virginia after Trump signed this pardon, a move that
erases this conviction. And also, it comes at a time when Trump has been endorsing an ally of Hernandez in the Honduran elections. He announced this
pardon just before voting began in Honduras this past Sunday. So, this also seems to be, some have said, a way for him to disrupt that process and to
influence the elections in Honduras.
Now, as you said, I covered the trial. He was found guilty, Hernandez, of working directly with some of the hemisphere's most powerful cartels,
helping to move tons of cocaine into the United States, receiving bribes from these drug traffickers and using that cash to build his political
career and to hold on to power. Some of these funds, according to some cooperating witnesses during the trial, were funneled directly into his
campaign.
So, what happens now? We have spoken with his attorney since he's been released. According to the attorney, Juan Orlando Hernandez is still in the
United States. It is unclear when he will return to Honduras. He says there are some threats, some security concerns, because the ex-president has
received death threats there. But then also, logistically, he doesn't have a passport. His visa was revoked. His passport was confiscated after his
arrest and conviction. So, there's no way for him to travel outside of the United States right now.
So, we just have to see what happens with this. But, as you say, there has been bipartisan condemnation of this pardon. Some lawmakers saying that
this sends a very dangerous message to other drug traffickers in the region, but also undercuts the president's message and this campaign
against drug traffickers in the Caribbean that has sparked so much controversy. Lynda.
KINKADE: Fascinating development. Maria Santana, thanks to you. Appreciate it.
SANTANA: Thank you.
KINKADE: Well, still to come tonight, defending deadly force against unarmed protesters. Tanzania's president stirs outrage with remarks on the
recent unrest that followed a disputed election.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:45:00]
KINKADE: Well, Tanzania's president is defending a brutal crackdown on unarmed protesters after a disputed election claiming without evidence that
they intended to overthrow her government. Samia Suluhu Hassan is defending security forces accused of killing hundreds of demonstrators after her re-
election in October. Protesters said the vote was rigged because the president's main rivals were either jailed or disqualified.
Today, President Hassan refused to acknowledge their grievances, saying young people were paid to demonstrate and had no reason at all to be on the
streets. A CNN investigation found that security forces fired at unarmed protesters who pose no threat, in some cases even hunting them down.
President Hassan says the crackdown was necessary.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SAMIA SULUHU HASSAN, TANZANIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): The government has a responsibility, and we swear to defend this country and
its borders to protect the safety of citizens and their property. And in that case, the force used is proportional to the threat.
So, when we're told that we used too much force in that event, what was the security forces supposed to do? Were we supposed to wait until the
protesters, who had planned to overthrow the government, to succeed?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KINKADE: CNN's Larry Madowo is following developments from Nairobi, Kenya and joins us now live. Larry, certainly we're just listening there to the
leader, not only backing the security forces who carried out this brutal attack on unarmed protesters, but blaming the protesters for what she's
called a manufactured event. Just take us through her comments and the reaction you're seeing.
LARRY MADOWO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lynda, in other jurisdictions, governments would open misconduct proceedings against any police officers who use
excessive force against guidelines, but that's not what's happening in Tanzania.
And some in the country see this statement from President Samir Suluhu Hassan as an admission that she gave the shoot-to-kill order, and she's
justifying the reason why. She claims young people were paid to go on the streets across the country by foreigners who were jealous of Tanzania's
development, and that her government had no option but to use proportional force because they intended to overthrow her government, and that is why
they did this.
So, even though she's launched a commission of inquiry into the events of that week after the election, when she shut down the internet, declared a
curfew, gagged the media, and many of these killings are believed to have happened, she does not appear to be taking any responsibility or
accountability for that.
And many in the country see her comments as tone-deaf, divorced from reality, especially when hundreds of people are believed to have died in
these protests. We don't know the exact number. The opposition says as many as 2,000 could have been killed, probably more. The government says that
number is hugely exaggerated, but has refused to confirm the death toll.
She also claimed without evidence, and falsely so, that the opposition refused to participate in this election. The truth is, the opposition was
barred from participating. The main opposition leader, Tundu Lissu, of the CHADEMA Party, is in prison since May -- since April, charged with treason.
He would face the death penalty if found guilty. And the second largest party, (INAUDIBLE) did not participate as well. But she says it's all
foreigners' fault.
And she had this point of criticism for the European Union Parliament, and the foreigners criticizing the government.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HASSAN (through translator): Because of the shame that they would have lost the election, they have made up excuses supported by foreigners. They're
shameless. Those foreigners keep saying Tanzania should do one, two, three, then something will happen. They think they're still our masters, our
colonizers, because of the little money they gave us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MADOWO: That is the alternate reality that President Samia Hassan has created, where her government is above criticism. And she claims that the
opposition just didn't participate because they smelled defeat, because she's done such a great job in her first term that they were going to be
defeated.
The Electoral Commission gave her 98 percent of the vote, which many people say is improbable. But at the same time, Tundu Lissu, the main opposition
leader, is still in Parliament. And she says young people have announced they will have more protests on December 9, which is Tanzania's
Independence Day. She says they're ready, whether it's Independence Day or Christmas, they will be ready.
[14:50:00]
So, that was this hour-long conversation in front of Tanzania's Dar es Salaam Elders, that's the commercial capital, which many in the country
kind of watched with bewilderment as she went on and on and on, justifying what happened in those weeks and appearing to give answers that her
commission of inquiry is supposed to be answering, Lynda.
KINKADE: Larry Madowo, thanks to you for that update. We are going to take a quick break. We'll be back with much more news in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KINKADE: Welcome back. I'm Lynda Kinkade. Well, tote bags from the U.S. grocery store Trader Joe's have become a hot fashion item overseas. Richard
Quest and Anna Cooban took a look at the canvas bag and how it gained cult status in London.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RICHARD QUEST, CNN ANCHOR, QUEST MEANS BUSINESS: Trader Joe's is a grocery store institution known for high quality and reasonable prices. They're
everywhere. The bags are also ubiquitous. There used to be a bit of a fashion statement here in New York, but now, the way they've taken off
overseas, it's worth a great deal more.
ANNA COOBAN, CNN BUSINESS AND ECONOMICS REPORTER: I'm in a bit of a fashion statement here in New York, but now, the way they've taken off overseas,
it's worth a great deal more. I'm in a trendy part of East London on a fact-finding mission because I want to know why these bags have really
taken off in the U.K., despite the fact that Trader Joe's doesn't even have a store in the country.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anytime I go anywhere, people are complimenting me on it, which is odd because it's just a thing you would have in the States.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Maybe people saw it on TikTok.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You see something, a piece of, like, something that people wear online, you see it, you like it because you see it more and
more and more, you get used to it, and you think that's what you want to wear because everybody wears it, basically.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I did bring this back from L.A. all the way across the Atlantic Ocean to London.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It feels like it's not luxury, but something, like, niched, you know? You have to be in America to have one of those, so maybe
that's the reason why people think it's cool, but it's basically just a supermarket.
COOBAN (voice-over): As with all fashion trends, it's about individual taste.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I wouldn't wear it, but I'm a black-only wearer.
COOBAN (voice-over): Anna Cooban, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KINKADE: Well, the magic of Christmas is not limited to humans, at least not in London. The London Zoo is making sure to include penguin residents
in the holiday fun. Zookeepers hosted their flippid friends at Penguin Beach. These are Humboldt penguins, classified as vulnerable and native to
Chile and Peru. They received fish treats from a special advent calendar. It's part of the Zoo's Magic of Christmas event, which runs through to
January 4th.
[14:55:00]
Well, the sun is putting on a show, NASA has released images, quite stunning, really, of a solar flare that burst from the sun on Monday. It
interrupted radio traffic in Australia, which was part of the planet facing the sun when this flare happened. Officials say it's near a huge, brand-new
sunspot that they expect to produce more flares in the coming weeks. And if the flares emit energy in the direction of Earth, it could result in
another round of widespread northern lights, like we saw a couple of weeks ago.
And staying in outer space, the telescope in Chile has captured this spectacular image thousands of light-years from Earth. The breathtaking
Butterfly Nebula was captured by the Gemini South Telescope. Voted winner of an image contest to celebrate 25 years of the International Gemini
Observatory. The not-so-catchily-named NGC 6302 is located in the Scorpius Nebula. It's at the center of a star at the end of its life, which, of
course, is a truly beautiful cosmic exhibition.
Well, thanks so much for watching tonight. I'm Lynda Kinkade. Great to have your company. Do stay with CNN. "What We Know" with Max Foster is up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:00:00]
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