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Isa Soares Tonight
Law Enforcement Sources Name Suspect in D.C. Pipe Bomb Probe; At Least Five Killed in Israeli Strike; U.S. Vaccine Recommendations; Israel Allowed to Participate in Eurovision 2026. Leaders of Rwanda and the Democratic Republic of Congo Sign a Peace Deal in Washington; Indian Prime Minister Modi Hosts Putin in New Delhi; Admiral Bradley Briefs Lawmakers in Congress for Boat Strikes. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired December 04, 2025 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00]
ISA SOARES, HOST, ISA SOARES TONIGHT: Hello, and a very warm welcome, everyone, I'm Isa Soares. We begin this hour with breaking news because
just minutes ago, one of the longest simmering conflicts on earth may have come to an end, at least on paper. The leaders of Rwanda and the Democratic
Republic of Congo signed a peace deal in Washington.
The two nations and their proxies have been fighting on and off for nearly three decades. Donald Trump helped to forge a deal, and says it will
encourage western companies to invest in the rich mineral and mining opportunities in the region. However, critics say the peace agreement
doesn't really address the core disputes between the two countries, and may not end the fighting.
But Trump insists this deal will bring prosperity to both nations. This is what he said just a short time ago. Have a listen..
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Today, the United States is also signing our own bilateral agreements with the Congo and Rwanda that
will unlock new opportunities for the United States to access critical minerals and provide economic benefits for everybody, and will be involved
with sending some of our biggest and greatest companies over to the two countries.
And we're going to take out some of the rare earth and take out some of the assets and pay, and everybody is going to make a lot of money.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Let's get some perspective on all this. I want to bring in CNN's Larry Madowo, who is in Zambia, just south of the Democratic Republic of
Congo. Larry, great to see you. Look, we'll talk about the critical minerals deal aspect of it in just a moment. But we've just seen -- it's
just wrapped up. They've signed, they've brokered this peace deal. Importantly, it hasn't been implemented. Do we know in detail what's in
this deal, in fact.
LARRY MADOWO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This deal builds on what they agreed in June, Isa, about a full and permanent ceasefire, releasing of prisoners,
disarming the M-23 rebel group, releasing refugees and justice for those who carried out atrocities, President Trump said so himself.
But what it does not do, and who it does not include, is the M-23. That is a rebel group that's been fighting the Congolese government in eastern DRC
that are allegedly backed by Rwanda, they are not a party to this. So, why it was President Kagame of Rwanda there. Because the conflict is between
these two countries and President Tshisekedi of the DRC accuses President Kagame of backing those rebels to try and destabilize his government.
And you can tell how much President Kagame and President Tshisekedi don't trust each other based on what they said. President Kagame said that if
this deal fails, it won't be Rwanda's fault. That these Washington Accords, as they're called, have all the elements necessary to end the war.
And then President Tshisekedi, on his part, said that we hope Rwanda can agree to the terms of this deal once and for all. So, there's no back-and-
forth about supporting militia groups and essentially reneging what they've agreed on. The two men barely looked at each other. I was watching their
body language, and they barely shook hands, barely looked at each other. That's how much mistrust there is between these two -- these two men.
SOARES: That is very clear from what I saw as well. There's a lack of trust here. Which then begs the question, Larry. I mean, how far-fetched is
this deal? I mean, how tangible -- let me put it this way, is peace?
MADOWO: This Washington Accord, as they're called, will not end the conflict in eastern DRC. Just this week, two days ago --
SOARES: Yes --
MADOWO: Both sides accused each other of sabotaging this deal because there was fighting continuing in three parts of the eastern DRC, the
Congolese military says they came under attack from the M23 and the M23 in a separate statement said that they'd been attacked by the Wazalendo, which
is a militia group allegedly backed by the Congolese government.
And so, even while this deal is going on, there's no actual peace on the ground. And I was in Goma in September, and I spoke to the leader of the
M23 rebel group, Corneille Nangaa and he said, they're not a party to this. They wish President Trump all the best, but they don't trust President
Tshisekedi, that he is a crook. He used that word, "crook", and he's gone back on every deal he signed before. Their intention is to go to Kinshasa
and to overthrow him.
SOARES: There is another element to this, Larry, and President Trump, we played that little clip there, touched on that. And that is economic,
right? The U.S. is seeing this, using this as an opportunity to access critical minerals, of which of course, the U.S. relies heavily from China.
Speak to that, the transactional nature here.
[14:05:00]
MADOWO: That is a criticism in the DRC, and in parts of Africa, that the U.S. is not a clean arbiter in this, that it's interested in the rare
earth, and President Trump said that, that they have signed several bilateral agreements with both Rwanda and the Democratic Republic of Congo
to access the critical mineral and the rare earths that exist in this region.
This mineral-rich region that, for instance, is the world's largest reserves of cobalt, and also coltan. These are critical in the manufacture
of everything from electric vehicles to mobile phones, and the world needs a lot of them. And President Trump has not hidden his intentions for that.
So, that is the subtext here that people say the U.S. is only doing this because it's interested in those minerals.
Because there have been previous deals that have failed. And President Tshisekedi and Kagame both said that there have been many previous
attempts, but the African Union in Kenya, in Angola, these didn't work out. So, why the U.S.? Why now? They praised President Trump, they praised
Secretary Rubio, they praised Massad Boulos; who is his special adviser on Africa. But the critical minerals question cannot be ignored.
SOARES: Yes, Massad Boulos saying this is a starting point. We shall see where this leads. Larry, good to see you. And from Zambia, love Zambia,
beautiful country. Thanks very much, Larry. Now, as Ukraine prepares for more peace talks with U.S., President Putin is in India to shore up support
for his own demands on Ukraine to end the war.
Putin arrived in New Delhi to meet with its Kremlin-friendly Prime Minister Narendra Modi. The Russian leader still pressing for his biggest prize,
Ukraine surrendering the Donbas region. Ahead of the summit, Putin, the news -- told a news outlet "India Today", said that Russia would seize
Donbas, quote, "by military or other means".
The large mining and industrial region, as you can see there is roughly the size of Croatia or the U.S. state of West Virginia. Just to add some
context there for you. Donbas and its provinces of Donetsk, Luhansk have been the focal point of Russian aggression for years due to its economic as
well as historic significance to the Kremlin.
While U.S. President Donald Trump has suggested Ukraine may need to give up parts of Donbas to end the war, Ukraine's leader Volodymyr Zelenskyy has
said that ceding the territory to Vladimir Putin is out of the question. A Ukrainian delegation, meanwhile, is heading to Miami, Florida, today, as
efforts to hammer out a compromise deal seem pretty stark. Our Will Ripley is on the scene in New Delhi and filed this report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WILL RIPLEY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Russian strongman Vladimir Putin getting what's probably one of the warmest
welcomes here in India that he's received anywhere in the world in years. Look at this, Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi riding with Putin in a
white SUV, sitting close, talking just like old friends.
They did the same thing, by the way, just a few months ago in China, spending nearly an hour in Putin's armored limousine, laughing and
chatting, and showing a level of comfort that world leaders rarely display, at least publicly. Even before Putin landed here in India, their bond was
obvious.
Their last meeting, they also walked hand-in-hand, a personal level of warmth with a very strategic purpose, of course, because both Modi and
Putin know that one of the people watching this relationship very closely is President Donald Trump. Putin arrives here in Delhi at a critical time
as the U.S. and Russia try to work out a possible peace plan in Ukraine, and as U.S.-India relations hit a low point, one big point of contention
here is oil.
India now buys 35 percent of its crude oil from Russia, compared to just 2.5 percent before the Ukraine invasion. Trump has repeatedly blasted India
as unfair, accusing Modi's government of leaning too heavily on Moscow, criticism he used to justify a massive tariff hike on India. Of course, now
Washington wants Delhi to scale back its Russian oil dependence.
But Modi's warm and very public embrace of Putin here signals that this partnership is deeper than just energy. It's built on decades of trust and
political chemistry, and what's happening here in New Delhi could shift the balance of power, really, from Ukraine all the way to the Indo-Pacific
region, potentially undercut American and European leverage on Russia.
Here in India, Prime Minister Narendra Modi is keeping his options open, and so is Vladimir Putin by the way, no matter what the United States
wants. Will Ripley, CNN, New Delhi.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOARES: And our thanks to Will, for that report there. And those words from President Putin that Russia will seize the Donbas by military or other
means, are clearly unnerving for Ukraine. I want to go to our chief international security correspondent, Nick Paton Walsh, who joins us this
hour from Kyiv. And Nick, those words, of course, from President Putin shouldn't really surprise us.
This has been a Maximalist position of him for some time, right? But the question then becomes, what are we really hoping --
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes --
SOARES: Will come out of this meeting in Miami?
[14:10:00]
WALSH: I mean, it's important to point out that in the interview he gave prior to arriving in India, he talked about a yet more Maximalist position
where essentially, he said Donbas and Novorossiya, which is an essentially Russian imperialist concept that's possibly centuries even old, but might
even refer to parts of the Kherson and Zaporizhzhia regions of Ukraine that only is half occupied by Russia at this point.
So, as we're dealing with the fineries of exactly what it was that Trump's envoy, Steve Witkoff, presented to Putin in the Kremlin, Putin appears to
have again doubled down on a wider claim to Ukraine than he'd had it seems in previous weeks. So, clearly, no sign of compromise publicly from the
Kremlin at all.
The question is really what privately is currently being discussed? An it's Russia that's been most vocal, frankly, about the outcome of the meeting in
the Kremlin on Tuesday, where Jared Kushner, Trump's son-in-law was also in attendance. Those two men, Kushner and Witkoff, are meeting Rustem Umerov,
the top Ukrainian negotiator in Miami as we speak for essentially what sounds like a debrief of what really had occurred in that Kremlin meeting.
Now, it sounds like elements of what happened have been fed to the Europeans, to the Ukrainians and elsewhere to try and keep people up to
date of the outcome. But the actual pickings of this seem relatively slim. We have the Russians consistent in their position that they want more of
Ukraine, frankly, than is imaginable under some kind of diplomatic deal.
At the same time, the Ukrainians are very limited and not willing to discuss, they talk about the desire for a continuing negotiations with the
United States, that's obviously why Umerov is in Miami right now, to be sure that there is this continued negotiations. Zelenskyy had a press
availability with his Cypriot counterpart today here in Kyiv.
But that was statements only and no questions. So, he is clearly trying to limit what he says in public. President Trump talked about that Kremlin
meeting as being overarchingly positive, no detail, but he talked about how he felt the U.S.-Ukraine approach towards that Kremlin meeting had been
positive, but clearly, it didn't get him to the peace place where he wants to ultimately be.
And so, the question I think now is how much did Ukraine present through Witkoff of its willingness to concede or engage in land swaps? We simply
don't know that. Did Putin potentially respond in a way that allowed some of this to progress, or did he simply shut it down and say, I want way more
than that.
We're in this weird groundhog day now where I think the flurry of activity we're seeing from the Europeans and the Ukrainians is a bid to suggest that
this process is still somehow alive and has some potential to bring results, because they ultimately fear Trump. Realizing his latest gambit
hasn't gone anywhere. And then for --
SOARES: Yes --
WALSH: Pressuring the Ukrainians to concede more, or potentially putting pressure on the Russians. But he's been reluctant for that in the past.
Isa.
SOARES: And so, you know, you know Russia well, you know Ukraine very well. So, let's take a step back, Nick, because I was reading your
excellent analysis for cnn.com, and you write this, I'm going to read it out --"Ukraine has endured nearly four years of Russian invasion, but also
now nearly 11 months at the mercy of Truth Social.
The impact of this unpredictability is often lost as Trump vacillates from imposing some of the toughest sanctions on Russia yet, are mulling sending
Tomahawks, to the next moment, reciting Russian talking points and putting the greatest pressure on his European allies and Zelenskyy himself."
Given what we know thus far, and I caveat with the fact that there's a lot we do not know about these conversations. How much of this vacillation that
you write about, Nick, how much is this impacting morale in Ukraine, and critically, morale on the frontlines?
WALSH: I mean, Isa, you know, standing here for nearly a year now and dealing with this impossible to comprehend vacillation, this kind of
absence of a real coherent policy, and the fact that even while we're talking, something could drop on Truth Social, which could demand Ukraine
do something that's well outside of what's acceptable to its thousands of troops here dying every week.
It's bizarre. And of course, the impact on that on ordinary Ukrainians is profound. I mean, imagine every night dealing with the possibility you
could be seeing hundreds of drones attacking your capital city relentlessly. Cruise missiles, ballistic missiles, sleeplessness. And
dealing on top of that, the fact that the country that used to be the bedrock ally that sustained your defense, that has been kind of miraculous,
frankly, for three and a half plus years now.
Ukraine holding off this Russian onslaught, the fact that the leader of that particular country could at any particular moment just say, well, you
know what? I'm just going to ask you to concede a bunch of stuff that you didn't necessarily ever imagine would be something you'd have to concede.
That has a huge impact on the psychology here. It's incredibly difficult, really trying to understand the flow of the narrative here, because each
time we see a diplomatic event reach its natural conclusion, if they go to the Kremlin, the Kremlin seems to say this is not enough for us.
[14:15:00]
And then people try and digest that. We're still left in a moment where the unpredictability of Donald Trump and his allies say, is so much of a gift
that enables him to break deals or understand psychology or penetrate deadlocks that no one else has done beforehand. Ultimately, here, when
you're asking your sons and your daughters, and those you love to die on the frontline, defending an objective that could suddenly be undermined by
a social media post, that's utterly profound.
And I think when people look back at this conflict decades from now, they will note the inconsistency of the White House's policy here as being
something that ultimately led to the extraordinary heroism we've seen of so many Ukrainians over the past three years being undermined by the country
they utterly hoped was their key ally here. Isa?
SOARES: Yes, important perspective there from our Nick Paton Walsh in Kyiv this hour, thank you. Nick. Let's stay with this story. Joining us now is
Carl Bildt; he's a former Prime Minister of Sweden and the Co-chair of the European Council on Foreign Relations. Carl, great to have you back on the
show. I'm hoping that you were able to listen there to our correspondent, Nick Paton Walsh, who so succinctly there gave us a sense of what so many
Ukrainians have been going through for the last several years.
Let me pick up, though, with his first point, with those words from President Putin that Russia, he said will liberate, basically will seize
Donbas and Navorossiya in any case by military or other means. I mean, this tells us yet again, does it not, Putin's intentions here?
CARL BILDT, CO-CHAIR, EUROPEAN COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS: Oh, absolutely. He has showed no willingness to give way on his different
objectives. But the fact is that he's been trying to do this for three and a half years to capture one of this region of Donetsk, and he's failed. And
I very much doubt that the Russian army will be able to deliver what Putin clearly believes it can deliver.
And even if he tries to do it, the cost is going to be horrendous for him because these are fairly well defended Ukrainian areas. And I don't think
the Ukrainians are going to give way. So, I and -- I think we have to understand and I hope that at some point in time, the White House will
understand that sort of caving to Putin will not give peace.
And so far, the White House approach has been to sort of accept a lot of what Putin is saying and try to put the pressure on Ukrainians. I think
it's only by sort of doing the other way around, putting more pressure on Putin and having him accept to close down the war along the existing
lines, that we have any possibility of making progress.
SOARES: Is there, Carl -- is there a strategy from the United States? I asked this because I was reading this fantastic article today from Thomas
Friedman in the "New York Times", in which he writes, I'm going to read it out to you. He says that "Trump and his envoys are, quote, 'failing as long
as they persist in their naive views.'"
And then he goes on to say "the reason you can't pressure Putin is they don't" -- you know, they don't know what -- "they don't know what they're
doing. You have a President who lurches back and forth", very much what Nick was saying, this vacillation that we're seeing on his social media
network.
And goes on to say, there is no policy-making process here. You're saying at some point, they should realize, but we've been through this so many
times. At what point then, is that point that we get there?
BILDT: I don't know, and no one knows. But it is, of course, striking that what we saw the other day, you have, a man who probably experienced a sort
of different properties in New York, I assume he is very competent in that, he's evidently made tons of money on that. And then the son-in-law of the -
- of the President, they are the only two sitting there with some of the most experienced foreign policy operators we have on the European continent
and believe that they can handle it.
And as we understand, there is no one without his diplomatic experience of dealing with Russia in the vicinity of the White House even. So, it is
fairly amateurish from the European point of view, and have that been a strategy? I think there has been the belief, evidently by the Trump team,
that being nice to Putin will cause Putin to be nice to Ukraine. That is, to put it mildly, to misunderstand the history of both Russia, Europe and,
well, diplomacy in general.
SOARES: I wonder, and we're seeing this, of course, from the negotiations, from the U.S. side. But I wonder what you think Putin's strategy is here,
besides delaying. Because I wonder if he's trying at all, Carl, to try and derail the oil sanctions that, of course, the U.S. Senator Lindsey Graham,
has been trying to focus on for some time or even trying critically to derail from the European perspective, the use of those Russian funds. Is
that what this is?
[14:20:00]
BILDT: That is clearly part of it. But you can say that Putin has -- he probably still believes that he can militarily be successful. I don't think
even his army believes that any longer, to be quite frank. He still believes that he can get Trump along in pressuring Ukraine into sort of
caving in to him. I don't think that will work.
He probably still believes that he can get the Europeans derailed from supporting Ukraine. I think that's going to fail as well. So, I fail to see
that he can be successful. And the only way in which we can really get to a conclusion of this particular war, which is urgent, is to increase the
pressure of Russia on Russia.
And the White House isn't there yet, and increase the support for Ukraine. And the White House isn't there as of yet. Let's just hope that they will
see the light in some point in time.
SOARES: He's hoping. Carl Bildt; former Prime Minister of Sweden, good to see you. Thanks, Carl.
BILDT: Thank you --
SOARES: Thank you. And still to come tonight, a U.S. Navy --
BILDT: Thank you --
SOARES: Commander facing tough questions today over the killing of survivors of a military strike on alleged drug-trafficking boat. What some
lawmakers are saying after being briefed by Admiral Frank Bradley. And only one deceased Israeli hostage now remains in Gaza. We'll talk about the
current state of the very fragile ceasefire with a former Israeli hostage negotiator. That's just ahead. You are watching CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: The U.S. commander at the White House says gave the order for a controversial second strike on a suspected drug boat is defending the
decision as he meets with members of Congress today. Admiral Frank Bradley is briefing members of the House, as well as Senate Intelligence
Committees.
Sources say he's making the case that the survivors of the initial strike on September the 2nd were still in the fight, and appeared to be radioing
in for help when he gave this order for a so-called double-tap strike. Reaction from those who have been briefed by the Admiral thus far have been
mixed.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JIM HIMES (D-CT): What I saw in that room was one of the most troubling things I've seen in my time in public service. You have two
individuals in clear distress without any means of locomotion with a destroyed vessel, who were killed by the United States.
[14:25:00]
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can you wait -- can you --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sir --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can you --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: House Intelligence Chairman Rick Crawford, Republican, had a completely different take. He told CNN, he's now convinced the follow-up
strike was justified, and he has no further questions for Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth. President Trump says he supports the release of the video of
the second strike.
A national security correspondent, Natasha Bertrand, with us from Washington. So, Natasha, we heard from two little clips there from two
voices. Just give us a sense of what you've been hearing and whether it adds any clarity or on that order or really, Secretary Hegseth's role in
it.
NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, the reaction to the video that lawmakers have been shown by Admiral Bradley and General
Dan Caine, who is the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, has been largely falling along party lines.
You have Democrats like Jim Himes and Senator Jack Reed, who is the ranking member of the Senate Armed Services Committee, saying that it is deeply
disturbing, and that the video shows really without a doubt that the U.S. military essentially executed two shipwrecked people who had no means of
really starting up the drug trafficking route again that they had just been on.
And then you have Republicans saying that, well, these individuals technically were still alive, still able to climb back into the remnants of
the boat, basically. And therefore, they were legitimate targets, which is the argument that we are told Admiral Bradley has been making, because
these individuals essentially were able to potentially climb back into the boat, salvage the drugs, maybe even call for help from nearby traffickers,
then that makes them still, quote, "in the fight, and therefore a legitimate military target."
Now, obviously, Democrats, they are not buying that explanation. There are many legal experts as well who say that these amount to extrajudicial
killings, because these are not combatants. They're in fact. civilians. Given that the U.S. is not actually at war with the drug cartels, there has
been no congressional authorization for the use of military force, for example.
And so, you just have these really differing opinions coming out about what the video shows. But ultimately, President Trump, as you said, he has said
the video should be released publicly, not clear if or when we're ever going to see that.
SOARES: Yes, and that was going to be my question. With no idea. And I'm guessing journalists happen to see it, wouldn't have seen it either. But I
know you'll stay on top of it, Natasha. Natasha Bertrand there for us. Thank you. And still to come tonight, people in Gaza are describing a
grisly scene after an Israeli strike hits another tent encampment for displaced families despite the ceasefire. That story, after this very short
break. You are watching CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:30:00]
SOARES: Well, sources tell us the man arrested in connection to the Washington, D.C. pipe bomb case has been identified. Earlier investigators
searched the home of Brian Cole Jr. in Woodbridge, Virginia. U.S. Attorney General Pam Bondi slammed the Biden administration for not making an arrest
sooner.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAM BONDI, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: Today's arrest happened because the Trump administration has made this case a priority. The total lack of
movement on this case in our nation's capital undermined the public trust of our enforcement agencies. This cold case languished for four years.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Well, the arrest follows an almost five-year probe to identify the suspect who planted pipe bombs near the Republican Democratic National
Committee headquarters in Washington, D.C. on the eve of January the 6th.
We're going to leave the U.S. for just a moment and turn our attention to Gaza, because every week there are strikes, assassinations, bombardment. We
do not see a ceasefire at all, those are the words of one Palestinian man after an Israeli airstrike shredded a tent camp for displaced families in
Gaza. And this is the aftermath of the attack in Khan Younis.
Authorities say at least five people were killed, including two children. Israel's military says it targeted a Hamas terrorist after its troops came
under attack in Rafah. U.S. President Donald Trump, whose administration brokered, if you remember, the ceasefire, says it's going along well,
despite, of course, the continued violence. He did not say when phase two of the deal may begin.
But the return of all hostages, living and dead, is a key requirement of the ceasefire. And now, all but one has come home. The IDF says Hamas
handed over the body of a Thai hostage yesterday. That leaves only one deceased Israeli hostage still in Gaza.
I want to get some perspective now from former Israeli hostage negotiator Gershon Baskin. He's Middle East Director of the International Communities
Organization, a well-known face here on CNN. Gershon, great to have you back on the show.
Let me start really the way that we pretty much set that up. This has been, I think it's fair to say, a very tenuous ceasefire. Anyone looking at any
of the headlines, the deaths, the strikes in Gaza, might reasonably have concluded that the ceasefire may have collapsed only this week. And, of
course, we saw two children killed by an Israeli drone while they were collecting firewood. How do you see, Gershon, the next steps here, given,
of course, only all but one of hostage have returned?
GERSHON BASKIN, FORMER HOSTAGE NEGOTIATOR AND MIDDLE EAST DIRECTOR, INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITIES ORGANIZATION: Right. Well, this is very
important because phase two should have begun already, and it was held back because Hamas was not able to locate all the deceased hostages. There were
28. There's one remaining, as you've said.
But the Americans are pushing forward with phase two, and we should expect within the next two weeks announcements about the formal creation of the
border peace headed by President Trump, the executive board, which is going to oversee the work of the Palestinian Technocratic Committee that will
include personalities like Tony Blair and Steve Witkoff and Jared Kushner and others, and then the Palestinian Technocratic Government, which will
number between 12 to 15 people.
[14:35:00]
We should also see with the announcements of the creation of these three bodies, the announcements about which countries are going to be deploying
forces to Gaza, and with the deployment of additional foreign forces to Gaza, we should see American pressure on Israel to withdraw further back
from the positions that they're holding.
These are the plans. This is the upbeat that the Americans are pushing on the agenda right here as the intensive work of the Civilian Military
Coordinating Committee is continuing near the Gaza border inside of Israel. Well, there are a lot of moving pieces here, but the positive optimistic
tone from the Americans should be encouraging to all of us.
SOARES: Yes. And look, as you were talking, I'm just seeing now that an Israeli delegation that has been led by hostage coordinator, Gal Hirsch,
has spoken with mediators in Cairo about securing the release of the body of the last deceased hostage held in Gaza. That is very good news, of
course, indeed, and closure for so many of the families and for that family.
But you were talking, you were breaking down there from the points that are included as part of this, the pressure, of course, that we've heard from
the U.S. administration. The U.N. Security Council passed, I think it was early to mid-November, of course, this stabilization force. Do we have a
sense -- and you mentioned that briefly, do we have a sense from your contacts and your sources of what countries are part of this? Because this
resolution, of course, was intended to add international legitimacy to President Trump's 20-point plan. Where is this going, you think? What are
you hearing?
BASKIN: Well, what I'm hearing is that all the countries are asking for clarification on the mandate of the force. None of the countries want to
send forces to Gaza that are going to be confronting Hamas and engaging in the disarmament of Hamas, the commissioning of Hamas's weapons. That's a
job that has to be done by the Palestinian -- the government and the Palestinian security force that will be established. None of the foreign
countries coming to be deployed in Gaza want to be in a situation of confronting Israeli soldiers either.
So, I think that there is going to be a need for more clarification on the mandate, perhaps an additional Security Council resolution, or at least
some guidelines provided by the United Nations to give it the kind of legitimacy and credibility and assuredness that the countries that might
send forces to Gaza need.
There are two countries that seem to be willing to send forces that at this point Israel is trying to prevent and that's Turkey and Qatar, who Israel
sees them as supporters of Hamas and therefore they should not be part of the stabilization force. My understanding is that the United States is very
intent on having troops coming from Turkey and from Qatar, as well as from other countries that we've heard like Azerbaijan and Indonesia. I think
it's very important that there be a European presence.
There will be some kind of European presence at the Rafah Crossing on the Gaza side, based on the model that existed way back in 2005 with EUROBAM,
United -- the European Union Border Administration Management body, which has expertise in managing borders. Maybe we'll see some other European
countries joining and that would be very good.
SOARES: But what you are sensing, Gershon, that pressure from the United States is still being applied. Of course, the intention has been focused
elsewhere in the last few weeks, but your sense is that pressure from the Trump administration that this continue, the second stage continue, you're
feeling that from what you're telling me.
But the reason I'm asking you this is because there have been domestic concerns also, right? We saw just yesterday the Israeli prime minister,
Netanyahu, and his coalition boycotting a Knesset vote, right, that would have endorsed President Donald Trump's plan, and we know that the second
phase of the plan acknowledges a pathway to a Palestinian's determination and statehood, which we know that Netanyahu does not support. So, what
happens there domestically?
BASKIN: Well, first of all, I think what we've seen is Mr. Witkoff has been keeping the pressure up on the Israeli government to make sure that
those voices in the Israeli government that want to resume the war will not be able to win over, and that Netanyahu and his government has reigned in.
We saw yesterday that President Trump is going to be hosting Netanyahu once again in the White House in another couple of weeks. We're not sure what
the agenda, it is probably about phase two and about other issues that concern the Israeli-American relationship.
You're 100 percent right that the current government of Israel will not be able to move forward on the Palestinian Statehood issue. This is something
that's way beyond their political ability or belief that they will do, and let's face it, within a year, Israel is going to be going to elections, and
hopefully that will be an issue on the agenda, and hopefully the Israeli people will elect a government that will be more willing to talk about
genuine peace with our Palestinian neighbors.
SOARES: Gershon, as always, great to have you on the show, and appreciate your insight. Gershon Baskin there.
BASKIN: Thank you.
[14:40:00]
SOARES: Thank you. And still to come tonight, the U.S. is considering changing its guidance on certain childhood vaccinations. We'll take a look
at what this could mean for infants.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: Welcome back, everyone. U.S. vaccine advisers are delaying the vote on a change to the childhood vaccine schedule, specifically the
recommendation for infants to receive their hepatitis B shot.
Currently, it's recommended that all babies get the first dose within 24 hours of birth. Health and Human Services Secretary Robert Kennedy has
publicly spoken against this. Other healthcare administrators have also questioned the necessity of this vaccine for all newborns. Typically, the
virus spreads through bodily fluids, such as during drug use, sex, or childbirth. Critics say taking the vaccine off the recommended schedule
would leave infants vulnerable to the disease. By comparison, some other countries, such as England, Germany, and Japan, do not recommend the
hepatitis B vaccine at birth unless there's a previously known risk.
Let's get more from our CNN Medical Correspondent Meg Tirrell, who joins us now to explain the potential change. So, Meg, explain to us, first of all,
why they're delaying the vote and some of the arguments that you've been listening, you've been hearing there at CDC headquarters.
MEG TIRRELL, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. So, they decided to delay this vote until at least tomorrow morning so that they could agree on the
language that they're actually voting on. One of the ACIP members noted that heading into this, as they were approaching, sort of discussing the
vote, that they had seen three different versions of that language over the last 72 hours.
And so, they were debating over what they should actually be voting on until finally there was enough confusion and frustration among some of the
members that they suggested tabling this vote until they could think about it more, print it out, and actually look at it, because this is quite a
lengthy vote with several different parts to it, and we should potentially see that be picked up tomorrow morning.
We should note, also, this is not the first time they've delayed this vote. They had actually planned to vote on this back in their September meeting,
but again, they couldn't settle on the language they were voting on and decided to push it back until now. So, even now, they haven't settled on
exactly what they are going to be voting on yet.
Now, this is a recommendation that's been in place in the United States since 1991, and it's credited with bringing cases of infection with
hepatitis B virus down from about 18,000 per year to an estimated 20 cases per year now.
[14:45:00]
And so, it is recommended that all babies currently receive this vaccine within 24 hours of birth within the hospital because hepatitis B is an
incredibly infectious virus. And even though they are talking about screening moms for hepatitis B, we heard from CDC experts at the last
meeting that 12 to 18 percent of pregnant women actually don't get screened.
And so, there are concerns that we're going to lose the safety net, and there was a study that estimated that even delaying that birth dose to two
months of age in the United States would result in at least 1,400 additional infections of babies every year, leading to hundreds of deaths
from this, which are preventable. Isa.
SOARES: Meg Tirrell for us there. I know you'll stay across it for us, Meg. Thank you very much indeed. And still to come tonight, a controversial
decision from the organizers of Eurovision. Details ahead on whether Israel will be allowed to participate. That is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: It is officially award season in Hollywood, with two of the country's most notable critic groups unveiling their top films.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm going to turn at this gas station, I'm going to slow down, and we talk and roll. I'll take it from there. Unbuck one, get
ready.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Talk and roll.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know what freedom is?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No fear.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Both the New York and Atlanta film critic circles tapped Paul Thomas Anderson's "One Battle After Another" as the best picture of the
year. Iranian director Jafar Panahi took the prestigious Best Director prize from the New York critics, while Atlanta honored Panahi's film, "It
Was Just an Accident," as their top international picture.
In the acting categories, the two critic groups split on who should win Best Actor and Actress, but they agreed that Benicio Del Toro and Amy
Madigan delivered the year's best supporting performances.
Now, Israel will be allowed to compete in the Eurovision Song Contest, and that announcement coming from the European Broadcasting Union. Organizers
ultimately decided to not hold a vote on Israel's participation in this, despite calls for exclusion over the war in Gaza and boycott threats.
While the EBU seeks to put music ahead of politics, this is not the first time, of course, world events have become a divisive issue for the
competition. Since 2022, Russia has been banished over its invasion of Ukraine.
[14:55:00]
Max Foster, he is here with us for more. So, Max, just break it down for viewers around the world, because the Eurovision is, I don't know how long
it's been going on for, but we grew up with Eurovision, it's such --
MAX FOSTER, CNN LONDON CORRESPONDENT: Too long.
SOARES: But you're not a fan. But it is part, so much part of European identity, right?
FOSTER: It's one of the biggest TV events of the year in the world. I mean, billions tune in. It's absolutely huge. And it's shown by public
broadcasters in traditionally the European countries, but brought into that were countries like Israel and Australia, and it's a massive event.
Some time ago around the Ukraine war, they excluded Russia, which kind of set this very difficult precedent for them, because then they started
getting involved in politics. And that blew up again around Israel, particularly the humanitarian situation in Gaza, which certain countries
found unacceptable and not in tune with their values. So, they wanted Israel thrown out of the competition.
There wasn't actually a vote on that in the end. It was a side vote, which the EBU, the European Broadcasting Union, set up to discuss the separate
issue that countries also had with Israel about how they may have interfered with voting or the way, you know, they try to encourage voting
for Israel. So, that was the vote, but it was seen as the set piece vote, because if people had voted against that, then there would have been a
follow-up vote with Israel. So, there are certain countries that wanted Israel out.
SOARES: So, talk us through those countries, because it may not be the end, right? I think we've got three or four so far.
FOSTER: Yes.
SOARES: Just talk us through.
FOSTER: So, Spain really led it. It's one of the big five that puts the most amount of money into Eurovision. So, they led this. And so, they were
one of the first to come out and say, after this vote, now that Israel's allowed to stay, we're not going to take part. So, we're talking there
about their singers not being involved but also them not showing it in Spain.
Then we have the Netherlands and Ireland as well. Ireland saying the decision, or what's happening in Gaza is unconscionable. They don't want to
be associated with it. And then other countries that said they would pull out, like Iceland and Belgium are still considering it. So, there might be
some more as well. But ultimately, it's utter chaos because they've got in this bind, and now they're in a situation where we don't know how many
people are going to be able to see it, where it'll be shown. Israel obviously saying they welcome the fact that they're able to compete and
they should have a platform anywhere.
SOARES: And it is important to point out that some of these countries are countries that were calling for a recognition of Palestinian State. So,
their position on Gaza and the humanitarian crisis in Gaza has been front and center in the case of Ireland, the case of Spain, the case of Slovenia
even.
FOSTER: Yes, I guess the debate is a bit like sport, should politics be kept out of it?
SOARES: Yes.
FOSTER: But as I say, the fact that they excluded Russia before gave, you know, countries like Spain the argument to say, well, it is partly
political, actually.
SOARES: But, you know, I could say it's very much politics is involved in Eurovision when we vote. I mean, I can tell you as Portuguese, you do not
vote for Spain.
FOSTER: Yes.
SOARES: Now, things have changed, but I remember growing up, the politics, the Brits not voting for the French, the Irish underdogs always win. So,
politics has been --
FOSTER: I know. But --
SOARES: I know it's very different. It's very different.
FOSTER: It's not the organizers, is it?
SOARES: Correct, correct.
FOSTER: It's the, you know, a lot of it is public vote.
SOARES: But I'm just saying this -- but do you think -- I mean, this has a potential -- will this be a crisis, I think, for Eurovision if more
countries then start pulling out?
FOSTER: I think it will be because arguably you could say, well, if Israel's still in next year, they might remain pulled out. And then you
could have had a situation where Austria also felt this was a problem and they're hosting it. So, the whole event would have to be rearranged.
It's a -- you know, it's a very big TV event and they've lost tens of millions of viewers. And, you know, a lot of people are going to be quite
frustrated because it's meant to be fun. And they were looking forward to watching it.
SOARES: You'll have much more on this in the next hour. Max, thank you very much indeed.
FOSTER: We found a professor of Eurovision.
SOARES: Oh, look at that. There is a degree for that.
FOSTER: She really knows what she's talking about.
SOARES: I can't wait for that. Now, if you are thinking of planning a city break for 2026, you may want to check out this list of the top 100 city
destinations according to Euromonitor International. Bangkok tops the charts with 30.3 million international arrivals. Hong Kong came in the
second place as the city attracted visitors to the launch of Kai Tak Football Stadium and the reopening of the expanded Terminal 2 at Hong Kong
International Airport boosted connectivity.
In Europe, London and Paris both make the top 10. Coming in third, London saw over 22 million arrivals and the French capital welcomed more than 18
million international visitors in 2025, following, of course, the restoration of the Notre Dame.
We now turn to a very important update on the one-man party we reported on yesterday, if you remember. That's the rowdy raccoon that went on a
rampage, I'm sure you remember this, Max, in a Virginia liquor store and ended up passed out drunk next to a toilet. He's been there, apparently.
[14:55:00]
New footage of his wild bend has emerged. You can see the masked rascal going on a drinking spree after falling from the ceiling tile, taking out
one of the security cameras. He also damaged 14 bottles worth about $250. According to animal protection officer who rescued him, the raccoon has
been nicknamed Al for alcohol. Had a lengthy nap to sober up and recover from what we're sure one of the nastiest, but probably highlight of his
life, hangovers.
Finally, this hour, scientists are excited about this gorgeous image of the Earth shot from just above the surface of the moon. It was taken in 2023 by
Japan's Hakuto spacecraft just days before it crashed into the moon in a failed landing attempt. The photo is remarkable because it was taken during
an eclipse. You can see the shadow of the moon just on the edge there on the surface of Earth near Australia. That looks like a smudge, it is not,
it's the shadow. The image will allow scientists to study how eclipses cast shadows through the vast distances of space.
That does it for us for this hour. Max Foster will have more -- much more news, including a professor in Eurovision. That's next.
FOSTER: Who knew?
SOARES: Who knew. See you tomorrow.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:00:00]
END
