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Isa Soares Tonight

Volodymyr Zelenskyy Continues Diplomatic Tour As Kyiv Prepares To Present A New Peace Plan; U.S. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth Gets Ready To Meet Lawmakers Over Controversial Boat Strikes; Australia Bans Social Media Apps For Under 16s; Lawmakers Threaten Hegseth; Trump Backtracks On Releasing Video Of "Double-Tap" Strike; Unclear If Machado Will Attend Nobel Ceremony; Honduras Issues Arrest Warrant For Ex-President Hernandez; Australia's Social Media Ban; Zelenskyy Says His Country Will Hold Elections In The Next 60 To 90 Days. Aired 2-3p ET

Aired December 09, 2025 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00]

MAX FOSTER, HOST, ISA SOARES TONIGHT: A very warm welcome to the show, everyone, I'm Max Foster in for Isa Soares. Tonight, Volodymyr Zelenskyy

continues his diplomatic tour as Kyiv prepares to present a new peace plan offer, while U.S. President Donald Trump blasts European leaders as weak

and once again piles the pressure on Ukraine.

We've got the details. Plus, U.S. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth gets ready to meet lawmakers over controversial boat strikes as the White House

refuses to rule out sending troops to Venezuela. We're live in Caracas this hour. Then Australia's social media ban kicks in as apps go dark for under

16s.

We'll speak to a psychologist to find out what impact it's likely to have. Well, the push for peace in Ukraine may be reaching a critical turning

point as the U.S. President's hot and cold stance on Kyiv once again seems to be on the frigid side. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy says a

revised peace plan will be sent to U.S. officials on Wednesday.

Mr. Zelenskyy is promising that any agreement will not include ceding land to Russia, a must have security guarantees and a plan for Ukraine's

recovery. He was in Rome today to meet with the Italian Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni. It's the latest in a series of visits with top European

leaders, which also included a meeting with Pope Leo.

U.S. President Donald Trump is turning up the heat on his Ukrainian counterpart to accept an American drafted peace proposal that leans heavily

in Moscow's favor. Here's what he told "Politico".

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This deal of Zelenskyy rejects this deal --

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Yes --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is there a timeline? Is there a point at which you say, OK --

TRUMP: Well, he's going to have to get on the ball and start accepting things. You know, when you're losing because you're losing --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: CNN's Ben Wedeman joins us now from Rome. And, you know, he had tough words, didn't he, for Zelenskyy? But actually, all of western Europe.

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Oh, yes, and he seems to really be blowing cold, not just on Ukraine, but Europe as a whole from

that "Politico" interview, which -- in which he seems to be telling Europe that, you know, go your own way and insulting the leaders of Europe.

This is not going to go -- it's not going down well here. There's some parts of the far-right that have praised President Trump for these

comments. But by and large, it's not been received well. Now, keep in mind, of course, that Keir Starmer; the Prime Minister of the U.K., Emmanuel

Macron; President of France, these are people who are well aware of just how thin-skinned President Trump is.

And President Zelenskyy, perhaps, no more than any -- more than anybody else, having experienced that mugging in the Oval Office back in February.

So, Zelenskyy is not rejecting the plan put forward by President Trump, which really did seem to be a Russian plan to end the war. But he's calling

-- he's saying he's refining it.

And clearly, in his consultations with European leaders, the latest, Giorgia Meloni; the Italian Prime Minister, they're refining it to the

point where it may not bear much resemblance to Trump's plan, but perhaps just enough for President Trump to start blowing a little harder towards

the leaders of Europe and the President of Ukraine.

Certainly, Giorgia Meloni was a good choice for the final person to speak to or the latest person to speak to on this European tour, because more

than other European leaders, she seems to be on the good side of President Trump. And so, perhaps she might be able to help President Zelenskyy

present this refined version of this plan that was presented by the Trump administration a few weeks ago. Max?

FOSTER: He -- you know, the pope isn't comfortable getting involved in politics, but you can -- we can pretty much assume he would be taking a lot

of sympathy for Ukrainian -- Ukraine's view in all of this.

[14:05:00]

I wonder what Donald Trump would say about that sort of, you know, warm relationship with Zelenskyy clearly has with the pope.

WEDEMAN: Well, I'm sorry, could you repeat the question?

FOSTER: I'm just wondering, you know, seeing those images of Zelenskyy and the pope, it's interesting, isn't it? Because the pope has been talking a

lot about peace. I wonder if that would help in the optics of the White House and Donald Trump seeing them together.

WEDEMAN: Perhaps, not. Keeping in mind that Pope Leo has recently made comments on the treatment of immigrants in the United States, not viewing

it very positively. He has been somewhat critical of the Trump administration, and when he met with Zelenskyy this morning in Castel

Gandolfo, his -- the pope's Summer residence, even though we're in December, he did stress that he wanted a just and lasting peace.

And I think the Ukrainian interpretation of the original Trump plan was that it wasn't just certainly not for Ukraine, and in the form that it was

presented, it might not have lasted either. So, Pope Leo, I don't think he's a great fan of the Trump administration, and probably, not -- the

Trump administration doesn't view him very positively either.

FOSTER: Interesting, Ben, thank you. Well, U.S. President Trump is also leaning into what might be a deepening divide between the U.S. and its

European allies. As we've been hearing, a development that's likely being welcomed by the Kremlin in that "Politico" interview. Mr. Trump described

Europe as a decaying group of nations due to their immigration policies, which he says are destroying their countries.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you intend to send kind of a message of tough love to our allies, to push them to make reforms?

TRUMP: No --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Or do you think that many of them --

TRUMP: No --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are just weak and you don't really want to be allies with them?

TRUMP: I think they're weak, but I also think that they want to be so politically correct. They don't -- I think they don't know what to do.

Europe doesn't know what to do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: Well, his anti-immigration rhetoric included a verbal shot at London's first Muslim Mayor, Sadiq Khan, who he said has a totally

different ideology of what he's supposed to have. Those comments follow remarks he made last week about Somali immigrants in the U.S., who he

described as garbage.

Let's turn to CNN Politics senior reporter Stephen Collinson. He's in Washington. I mean, it's very alarming to many people here in Europe, isn't

it, Stephen? To hear the U.S. being so critical because it's always been a great strength in many Europeans eyes, that partnership with the U.S.

STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN POLITICS SENIOR REPORTER: Yes, I think there are a number of things going on in Trump's remarks. First of all, he's very

frustrated that he can't get this Ukraine peace deal done. And therefore, as he always does, he's looking for somebody to blame, and so now, it's

Europe's turn.

More fundamentally, as you mentioned, he's talking about immigration, which right from the start of his political career in 2016 was the animating

force behind his MAGA movement. And he is implementing in his second term the most extreme anti-immigration crackdown that we've seen in many years

in the United States.

And then you have an even deeper level, this antipathy between the MAGA movement, Trump and people around him, not just for Europe, but for the

entire European idea of pooling of sovereignty, of considerably liberal social policies as they're seen from the United States and their attitude

on integration and immigration.

So, there is a practical clash here. I think a geopolitical clash because Trump and people around him don't believe that the United States should any

longer be responsible for Europe's security and that deeper sort of temperamental and political clash of values that we haven't seen across the

Atlantic, at least, since the end of the Second World War.

FOSTER: It does seem, though, this European counterproposal on the peace plan is ready because Zelenskyy is talking about working on it today and

tomorrow. He said that and he thinks he'll hand it over tomorrow. He calls it a refined document, handing it back to the United States. But it's

pretty clear it's not going to include this handover of land that Russia is determined to get. I wonder if, you know, it's going to go anywhere, this

plan.

COLLINSON: Past history suggests that it won't. It is, I guess, the latest effort to try to produce something that is acceptable to Russia and Trump

that also guarantees European and Ukrainian sovereignty.

[14:10:00]

That may be a circle that is impossible to complete. And that is really the fundamental issue behind all of this. It looks like Russia doesn't

particularly want a deal, despite what Trump says. Trump wants any deal and doesn't really care that much what is in it, I think. And then you have

Europe and Ukraine who have these critical national security and sovereignty requirements that they must be see satisfied under any deal.

I think all of this points to the fact that while some people in Europe have been talking for some time about the need to create their own path

geopolitically, perhaps without the guarantees of future support and defense from the United States, President Macron of France has talked about

this for years. It really does, I think, stress the need to seriously make efforts to push this forward for the needs of European security.

FOSTER: All right, Stephen, thank you. Also joined by Fabrice Pothier; he's the CEO of Rasmussen Global, the former director of Policy Planning as well

for NATO. Thank you so much for joining us. So --

FABRICE POTHIER, CEO, RASMUSSEN GLOBAL: Nice to speaking with you --

FOSTER: It looks like Donald Trump will receive this updated peace proposal as edited effectively by all of Europe. Then it goes to Russia, presumably.

I mean, what will the process be, do you think?

POTHIER: Well, I don't know the exact process, but it's obvious that this is the European and Ukrainian attempt to seize back the advantage, and to

be able to shape terms that are more dignified terms for possible peace settlement between Ukraine and Russia, which was far from the case from the

original 28-point plan.

FOSTER: What do you think is going to be the key sticking point? Because we've heard Zelenskyy talking today about not handing over any land, but

that also seemed to be the key sticking point for Russia, didn't it? Because it wanted all of the Donbas.

POTHIER: Well, I would think this is a bit more complicated than this. I think the key question and the difficult one is the territorial compromise

or territorial aspects versus security guarantees. I think Ukraine might be willing to contemplate, at least, to accept some temporary realities. Let's

put it like this.

If they were given some really hard security guarantees from both the Europeans, but also the United States, because basically this is a

political question for Zelenskyy and for the entire Ukrainian population. Do they have the guarantees that whatever compromise they accept, their

country as a sovereign, independent entity will be able to survive and have a future.

FOSTER: Donald Trump has been very critical of Europe generally today, they don't know what they want, he was saying, and they don't know how to come

up with a decent plan. But do you think he's losing patience? I mean, how much more patience has he got with this?

POTHIER: I think -- I think this is probably the Trump bullying pressuring tactic to try to get what he wants, which is fundamentally, he just wants

to get done and to tick that box. I'm not sure he's completely against Ukraine, but he clearly has a weakness for Vladimir Putin and for autocrats

around the world.

So, that puts Ukraine at a disadvantage. But I think there is a way also, and there are some voices around him, including State Secretary Rubio, who

gets the importance of getting Ukraine right, of making sure a sovereign and independent. Ukraine can remain because let's not forget it. This is

the first line of defense for NATO, and NATO is Europe, but it's also the United States.

FOSTER: What about his patience for Zelenskyy in particular? Because it appears that he's been complimenting the Ukrainian team, whilst at the same

time not complimenting Zelenskyy. Is he seeing Zelenskyy as part of the problem here?

POTHIER: I would not want to speculate in how Donald Trump sees the world and his counterparts. I think President Zelenskyy is the elected leader of

Ukraine. He's a war leader. If you compare him to Vladimir Putin, who has been basically transforming what was at the beginning, you know, Russian

democracy more or less into a full-fledged autocracy, I think there is no comparison.

And here, I think Donald Trump is picking the wrong kind of problematic leader. Even if Ukraine has its flaws, it's a democratic, open, vibrant

societies, and this is where we should stand.

FOSTER: Do you think, Putin, you know, if we take -- you know, come back from Ukraine, everything that's going on right now, he's actually got what

he wanted already because he's created this divide between Europe and America.

POTHIER: Well, he's trying, he's trying to divide, obviously, U.S. versus Europe, and he's trying to divide us, Europeans from inside, using useful

idiots like Viktor Orban.

[14:15:00]

And also proxy hard-right and hard-left parties across the European political space. However, I think the reality is Putin is not really

successful. And he's kind of tied himself to success in Ukraine, but he can't achieve success. He's gaining indeed, few kilometers square, but the

price, the cost of these gains are enormous.

We're talking about a thousand Russian soldiers killed or injured every day. How long can he sustain that? Probably longer than a democracy, but

probably not forever. And his problem is that he has to really fulfill his objectives, which are fundamentally to take over Kyiv. But he's failed not

just for the past four years, but for the past ten-plus years.

So, I think Ukraine has been successful in that sense, but we need to make them stronger to be able to hold on the longer term.

FOSTER: Fabrice Pothier, I appreciate your time tonight. Thank you very much indeed.

POTHIER: Thank you.

FOSTER: Still to come, UNICEF says no child should be scarred by war before taking their first breath. We'll tell you about a new warning on severe

malnutrition in Gaza weeks after the ceasefire. Plus, what this footage of the infamous double-tap boat strike actually show. Bipartisan pressure is

growing on Pete Hegseth to release the video as he briefs the gang of eight. We'll bring you the latest after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FOSTER: A new report from UNICEF underscores the dire humanitarian needs that still exist in Gaza two months after the ceasefire. The U.N. aid

agency says a shockingly high number of children remain acutely malnourished, even though the truce was supposed to facilitate a massive

increase in humanitarian aid.

It says 9,300 children were treated for severe malnutrition in October. And it warned some newborns are scarred by war before their first breath

because their mothers themselves are malnourished. Meanwhile, the U.N. Agency for Palestinian Refugees says Israeli police have stormed this

compound in occupied east Jerusalem after months of harassment and intimidation.

UNRWA calls it a dangerous wake-up call. But Israel says it was a standard debt collection procedure. Jeremy Diamond is in Jerusalem with more.

[14:20:00]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Well, instead of a United Nations flag, it is now the Israeli flag that is flying over this

U.N. compound in Jerusalem. This is the headquarters of UNRWA; the U.N. Agency for Palestinian Refugees, and the Israeli flag was raised above its

headquarters after a raid by Israeli police and Jerusalem municipal officials on Monday.

According to U.N. officials, those Israeli authorities seized furniture, I.T. equipment and other property. Israeli authorities, for their part, say

that this was part of a, quote, "debt collection procedure", claiming that the United Nations owes more than $3 million in back property taxes. The

United Nations, for its part, claims that it is exempt from those taxes as it has been in the past in Israel, and as it is around the world.

But this is about much more than just property taxes. This really is part of the broader feud that we have seen play out between Israel and UNRWA,

again, that agency for Palestinian refugees. And that's because you look back to what happened late last year when the Israeli parliament passed a

law banning UNRWA from operating on Israeli territory.

It was after that law came into effect in January of this year that it seems that Jerusalem municipal officials began trying to collect those

property taxes, seemingly claiming that this law meant that the U.N. Agency for Palestinian Refugees was no longer exempt from those taxes. Also

important to note that this law also forced U.N. staff to vacate the property at the time, which means that this property has actually been

vacant for almost the entirety of this year, and was at the time of this raid.

But the United Nations says that this compound is still U.N. premises, and should be treated as such. Meaning that it should be immune from any kind

of interference from local or national officials. And the head of UNRWA is now calling this, quote, "blatant disregard for Israel's obligations as a

U.N. member state".

Of course, the feud between UNRWA and Israel doesn't just stem from this war and the October 7th attacks, in which Israel claims that there were

several UNRWA members who participated or aided Hamas in those attacks. It hasn't provided evidence of any kind of widespread involvement of UNRWA

officials with Hamas.

And important to keep in mind that beyond the handful that Israel has talked about, there are more than 10,000 UNRWA employees who work for that

agency. But Israel has feuded with UNRWA for years now, primarily over the fact that it grants Palestinian refugee status to the descendants of

Palestinian refugees who live in -- who lived, for example, in present day Israel.

And so, this is a much broader feud that has really come out into the daylight over the course of this war, and now is even rising to the level

of property taxes. Jeremy Diamond, CNN, Jerusalem.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: Now, about 400,000 people near the Thailand-Cambodia border are under evacuation orders as armed clashes between the two sides spread along

the disputed boundary. There are reports of rocket strikes and drone attacks in some areas, and at least, eight deaths. Thai and Cambodian

leaders with President Trump signed a U.S. brokered ceasefire deal, and that was in October.

That agreement now appears to be on the brink of collapse. Still to come tonight, bipartisan pressure is growing on U.S. Defense Secretary Pete

Hegseth to release footage of the so-called double-tap strike. We'll have a live report for you. Plus, CNN speaks to two Australian teenagers taking

their government to court over a social media ban for under 16s.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:25:00]

FOSTER: Scrutiny over the so-called double-tap strike on an alleged Venezuelan drug boat continues to shadow President Trump's cabinet. The

Secretaries of State and Defense, alongside the chairman of the Joint Chiefs are set to meet today with the gang of eight lawmakers with

Venezuela dominating the agenda.

Senate Minority leader Chuck Schumer saying that he will press Hegseth to release the footage of the strike to all senators. In an interview with

"Politico", Trump said he's seen the classified footage and said it was, quote, "not pretty", yet continued to back Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth.

Pressed on his policies in Venezuela, Trump said Nicolas Maduro's days are numbered, and that he would not hesitate to take on cartels in Mexico and

Colombia. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So, how far would you go to take Maduro out of office?

TRUMP: I don't want to say that, but --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But you want to see him out?

TRUMP: His days are numbered.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can you rule out an American ground invasion?

TRUMP: I don't want to rule in or out. I don't talk about it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Would you consider doing something similar with Mexico and Colombia that are even more responsible for fentanyl trafficking --

TRUMP: Yes, I would --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Into the U.S.?

TRUMP: Sure, I would.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: For more on this, let's bring in CNN's Natasha Bertrand, she is following the story from Washington. I mean, this meeting with the eight is

going to be interesting, isn't it?

NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: This is not something that happens every day. And we have the most senior officials in

Trump's national security team meeting with these lawmakers at a moment when many of them are asking very pointed questions about all of the

military operations happening around Latin America, including the legality of those boat strikes in the Caribbean and the eastern Pacific.

Now, we've heard from several lawmakers already today who are saying that they are going to be pressing Secretary of Defense Hegseth to release the

full video of that September 2nd strike. Some, however, including Republicans are saying that there are questions about classification

issues, and whether sources and methods could be burned if the full video is released.

But some Democrats, including Senator Richard Blumenthal, are saying that they're concerned that if it's not released now, then it could be erased.

Here's a bit of what Blumenthal said earlier.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D-CT): Hegseth puts lethality over legality and morality. And his throwing Bradley under the bus or others fails to cover

him for his responsibility here. And we need to see and so do the American people, all of the evidence and a subpoena should go immediately so that

it's preserved. My fear is there will be destruction of evidence or it may be lost to the shredder.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[14:30:03]

BERTRAND: So, President Trump has also backtracked on whether he would like to see the video released. He said last week that he would not mind the

video coming out, but then this week he said that he never promised to do so. And so, it remains unclear whether the public is ever going to see that

full clip of what actually happens on September 2nd when those survivors were killed by the U.S. military.

But with regard to the briefing that's happening later today, Latin American operations, military operations in the Caribbean, they're going to

be top of mind for all of these lawmakers, because President Trump has also said that before any kind of military action in Venezuela, if he were to

carry it out, he wants the Gang of Eight to be briefed. And so, I expect there to be a lot of questions about the U.S. military's plans for that

country as well. Max.

FOSTER: I'm not sure anyone wants to see the video the way some of these politicians are talking about it, but what are your sources saying about

it? I mean, is it very close up? I mean, why are they so concerned about how graphic it is?

BERTRAND: So, the way that it was described to us is that you can see -- the clip that they posted on social media, you can see it from above, the

boat being struck. But then, after the boat is struck the first time, the video zooms in dramatically to about 50 feet above the wreckage. And you

can see in very clear picture the two survivors that have been left clinging to part of the boat that is capsized, and they are trying to turn

the boat over, and they are unsuccessful.

And then, with that close-up video still being viewed, you can see very clearly when that second strike is taken, killing those survivors. And so,

several lawmakers have said it is extremely disturbing, extremely graphic, and they want answers for why it was necessary.

FOSTER: OK. Natasha, thank you for that. Well, despite months of U.S. attacks on alleged drug boats, efforts to move narcotics in the Caribbean

and Pacific continue. And even though the Trump administration wants to focus on fentanyl, most of the drug boats coming from South America are

moving cocaine. The U.S. Coast Guard is even reporting a record-breaking year for cocaine busts, as CNN's Paula Newton reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PAULA NEWTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): You are watching U.S. Coast Guard video of a takedown mission of alleged cocaine traffickers. This just

won in a record-breaking year for the federal agency seizing more than three times the amount of cocaine this fiscal year to September 30th than

the annual average over the past few decades.

REAR ADM. JEFF NOVAK, U.S. COAST GUARD: We had more ships in the transit zone, and then in August of this year, we further surged assets into the

eastern Pacific Ocean to increase our effectiveness against narco- traffickers and transnational criminal organizations.

NEWTON: Why a record-breaking year? What have you seen?

NOVAK: Collectively, we work to understand where the drug flows are, and then with an increase of resources, we can better align our assets to where

potential smuggling routes may be.

NEWTON (voice-over): The surge in resources since January means the Coast Guard has been responsible for some 80 percent of drug seizures at sea this

year. In fact, this recent offload in Florida was the most cocaine seized by a single cutter in one patrol in Coast Guard history.

TULSI GABBARD, U.S. DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE: This kind of investment is what has set the Coast Guard has unleashed the Coast Guard to

be able to deliver the kind of historic results, again, that these men and women signed up to do.

NEWTON (voice-over): The Coast Guard is the lead Federal Agency for maritime drug interdiction, while U.S. military involvement has been

controversial, it is the Coast Guard that has been most effective in seizing drugs.

Perhaps more importantly, are any of these missions reducing the amount of drugs on American streets. In San Francisco, where illicit drug use has

long challenged the city, the sheriff says anecdotally, he has seen a difference.

SHERIFF PAUL MIYAMOTO, SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA: Any effort, either at the federal, state or local level, to help with the infusion of drugs into our

communities is helpful and welcome assistance, regardless of politics, drugs affect everyone in the community, and by making sure that we don't

have a flow of drugs into our communities, it's very helpful.

NEWTON (voice-over): Sheriff Miyamoto stresses that a local, state and federal approach has been key in his city. It's been about collaboration.

He says, not only the surge in resources at sea.

And some human rights advocates contend the record-breaking drug trafficking operations will only serve as a band aid to what is an increase

in drug production, especially cocaine.

JOHN WALSH, DIRECTOR OF DRUG POLICY, WOLA: The starting point here is to realize that interdiction per se and supply overseas, supply control is

very limited and can result in sort of episodic supply reductions and disruptions, but those are almost always quickly overtaken because

traffickers adapt.

[14:35:00]

NEWTON (voice-over): But the Coast Guard says it's adapting too, using the surge of resources, technology and intelligence to disrupt drug traffickers

for the long haul.

Paula Newton, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: Venezuelan opposition leader Maria Corina Machado has delayed her appearance in Norway to receive the Nobel Peace Prize. She was due to

address reporters earlier today ahead of Wednesday's Nobel ceremony, but the news conference was cancelled by the Nobel Institute. Details of how

and when Machado will arrive in Oslo are unknown at this point, as she's in hiding due to security concerns. At least four Latin American presidents

will be president when Machado receives the Peace Prize in a gesture to reaffirm their stance against the Maduro government.

U.S. Congresswoman Maria Elvira Salazar and former Venezuelan presidential candidate Edmundo Gonzalez will also attend. Machado was honored in October

for her tireless work in promoting democratic rights and her fight for a peaceful transition.

Stefano Pozzebon joins us live from Venezuela's capital, Caracas. So, Stefano, do we know what this delay is caused by?

STEFANO POZZEBON, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, first of all, Max, this is Venezuela. If anyone believed that any Venezuelan plan would go according

to schedule, clearly doesn't know this country.

But I think that the fact that we are yet not able to confirm whether the 2025 Nobel Peace Prize laureate will indeed receive her award in person

speaks to the difficulties of being an opposition activist, a freedom activist in a country and facing up to the authoritarian government of

Nicolas Maduro.

Think that, Max, if we had seen Machado up in Oslo today, it would have been the first time she's seen in public since around the 11th of January

earlier this year. It's been 11 months that we haven't seen Maria Corina Machado out in the streets of Caracas or anywhere because she's facing

multiple arrest mandates here and she's been adamant to us in person but also to other media and throughout her political career that she does not

intend to follow the steps of other opposition leaders who went into exile to escape the persecution and the repression from the government here in

Caracas.

The -- some members of her staff, by the way, Max, were asked exactly that question. What it would mean for Maria Corina Machado to show up in Oslo,

pick up the prize and maybe not be able to return to Venezuela? This is what her chief of staff told them.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAGALLI MEDA, HEAD, CONVENEZUELA COMMAND (through translator): At home or abroad, Maria Corina is very transparent that her strength is tied to the

confidence of the people who voted for her in October 2023 and told her, you're the one who we want to lead us through this process. So, the exile

isn't really a possibility.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

POZZEBON: And so, what we are left with, Max, is a few more hours of suspense, of not understanding whether she will be there in person. Perhaps

her daughter, Ana Corina, or her own mother, Corina, are also in Oslo so they will be able to pick up the prize, physically pick up the prize and

maybe address the crowd in a speech. But we will know more earlier on -- early on on Wednesday morning. It's 7:00 am New York time and about 1:00 pm

Oslo time that we should know whether Maria Corina Machado has indeed arrived in Oslo to pick up the prize.

And then, of course, all bets are off, all doors are open on whether she would return to Venezuela, which is a country of course that is in the

middle of a massive geopolitical chess game between the White House and the Maduro's government, as the previous reports have shown, Max.

FOSTER: OK. Stefano, we'll see. Thank you. Staying in the region, Honduras, has issued an arrest warrant for its former president, Juan Orlando

Hernandez, who is currently accused of money laundering and fraud. He was freed from U.S. federal prison last week after being pardoned by U.S.

President Donald Trump in a move that was criticized by both sides of the political aisle in the U.S. and in Honduras.

Hernandez was convicted and sentenced last year to 45 years in federal prison and given an $8 million fine by a U.S. judge for drug trafficking

offences. He denies, though, any wrongdoing. Still to come tonight, as Australia's leading-edge legislation on children's social media use takes

effect, many continue to question its credibility. More on the possible fallout after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:40:00]

FOSTER: Now, a world-first ban on social media divides Australia. It's already Wednesday morning down under, which means Australia's ban on 10

major apps for children under the age of 16 is now in effect. They include TikTok, Instagram, YouTube, and Snapchat.

The government argues that legislation will protect young people from online threats, while many parents are celebrating the decision many of the

children impacted argue outlawing online content will make no difference. CNN's Angus Watson spoke to two teens protesting against the change.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANGUS WATSON, CNN PRODUCER (voice-over): Teenagers Noah and Macy are taking their government to court in a fight to stay on social media.

NOAH JONES, PLAINTIFF: Taking away how we communicate to the world, this is how we do it. It's a modern day. It's social media.

WATSON (voice-over): From Wednesday, Australia will enforce a world-first law banning children under 16 from many of the biggest platforms. Supported

by a freedom advocacy group, Macy and Noah's case asserts a right to political communication. The High Court has agreed to hear it next year.

WATSON: So, what will you lose when social media is taken away from you?

MACY NEYLAND, PLAINTIFF: Well, we will lose connections, but we will lose our democracy. This law is saying that democracy begins at 16, which is

condescending and it's incorrect.

JONES: Listen, there are definitely negatives on social media. I'm not denying that. I completely agree. We're saying that getting rid of the kids

is not the solution. We didn't do anything wrong.

WATSON (voice-over): The government says it is acted to protect children from potentially harmful content, harmful people and addictive algorithms.

JULIE INMAN GRANT, AUSTRALIAN E-SAFETY COMMISSIONER: And there are these powerful, harmful, deceptive design features that even adults are powerless

to fight against like autoplay and list scroll and snap streams. So, what chance do our children have?

WATSON (voice-over): Under the new law, young social media users won't be punished for being on age-restricted apps, nor will their parents. Instead,

Australia is requiring tech companies to take reasonable steps to keep under 16s off their platforms and threatening fines in the tens of millions

of dollars.

Tech companies say they are already building safer systems. A.I. face detectors will likely be employed to verify age, with tools provided by

third-party companies like Verifymy. Users may also be asked to upload their identity documents.

ANDY LULHAM, VERIFYMY CHIEF OPERATING OFFICER: Australia is certainly leading the way when it comes to requiring an age check for every user to

determine that they are over 16 or not.

WATSON: The government's ban is a catch-all. If you're under the age of 16, you're off social media. But children are all different. They've engaged

with social media differently and they feel differently about the ban.

[14:45:00]

WATSON (voice-over): The students at All Saints Anglican School on Australia's Gold Coast are learning from cyber safety advocate, Kirra

Pendergast, about how to best avoid danger on social media.

KIRRA PENDERGAST, CYBER SAFETY ADVOCATE: Because it is a delay. It's not a flat-out ban. They're not banning the internet. We're not trying to boil

the ocean. It's literally just a delay age. And so. they've got time to catch up to become more resilient and think more critically about that how

they use apps.

WATSON (voice-over): In their final year, Nicholas and Ruby wonder if maybe their school career would have been easier without the distraction of

social media.

RUBY PETTY, ALL SAINTS ANGLICAN SCHOOL CAPTAIN: Nick and I were talking before about how if we could we would delete Snapchat today. But it's more

the fact that because there's now so much reliability and connection based off one app, you don't want to delete it.

WATSON (voice-over): Perhaps for young Australians, the fear of missing out won't be so bad if everyone is forced to miss out together.

Angus Watson, CNN, Sydney, Australia.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: For more on this, psychologist and psychotherapist Dr. Charlotte Armitage, who specializes in parents, device use and child development,

joins us live from London.

I mean, this is a very divisive topic, isn't it? But it's going to be interesting for everyone because all of these arguments about screen time,

you know, we're going to -- it's an interesting scientific experiment for the rest of the world as much as anything, right?

DR. CHARLOTTE ARMITAGE, PSYCHOLOGIST AND PSYCHOTHERAPIST: It is. I suppose we can say that. But I think that, to be honest, the risks of being on

social media, the impact that it has on the development of children and teenagers far outweigh any benefits.

So, I think, you know, it's the same as if you take back to the smoking ban. You know, at one point, the thought of not being able to smoke in a

restaurant or a pub would have been absolutely absurd. Whereas now you're a social prior. If you do smoke, I think it is going to become a little bit

like that. It's just about the social contagion of this becoming normalized, that people under 16 don't have access to social media.

FOSTER: Do you think there's a risk of some anxiety? I'm not talking about the kids coming through who grow up without it. A lot of people will see

the obvious advantage of that. But the kids being taken off it currently right now, that might add an anxiety in itself.

DR. ARMITAGE: I think it will. I mean, you know, these are very addictive platforms. The brain is getting huge amounts of dopamine from being on

these platforms. And to suddenly be told that it's now outside of your control and you can't have access to it, as you would with anything else

that you had a habit with or an addiction to, you would feel quite anxious at having to withdraw from that. But the evidence is that when you have a

period of time away from the device, especially when you're young, your brain will recalibrate and they'll learn to live without it.

FOSTER: The social media companies seem to have done a really effective job of coming up with these systems to block kids from getting on there. I

think there's more confidence now that kids can't get around the system, right? But what about other platforms are going to pop up and they're going

to purge towards?

DR. ARMITAGE: That's -- to be honest, I think that's the problem, isn't it? It's not just social media. It's the fact that these devices have been

integrated into the lives of children from a very young age, without any restrictions, any boundary, don't have access to the Internet. And this is

how -- you can try it -- you can put one law in. But by the time -- you know, we know social media has been incredibly damaging for mental health

for over a decade. And it's taken this long for a law to come in in Australia.

By the time law policy governance actually catches up with the science and what we see on a daily basis of the impact of these devices on children,

we're on to the next thing. I mean, it's tech moves so rapidly, especially with A.I., that it's very hard to stay on top of governance. My perspective

is, and I wrote a book on this called "Generation Zombie," but my perspective is, is that you have to create some rules, regulations and

boundaries within your own home about how they're utilized.

So, ideally, don't even let your child have a phone from until they are a much older age. And when you do integrate a device, it doesn't have to be a

smartphone with the whole Internet on. You know, you can go in with a phone that's maybe got WhatsApp or Maps, camera, phone and text messages without

the whole Internet. And wait for the brain to reach maturation before or close to maturation before you integrate that mind with technology.

I mean, I heard what the young people were saying in the (INAUDIBLE) there. I mean, they've never lived a life without it, so they don't know what it's

like. But a lot of people who grew up with it now saying they wish they'd never had it. So, they may actually be grateful that this is been this this

restriction has been put in place for them.

FOSTER: I think TikTok is the biggest news platform in the world right now. A lot of the kids are saying that they're going to be denied access to news

and information. I think, you know, sometimes this does get lost, doesn't it? There's lots of good content on there as well as the bad content. But

what would you say to that argument?

[14:50:00]

DR. ARMITAGE: Well, you can get your news at a legitimate outlet as well. So, you can go on to Apple News and get your news there where it's actually

verified, legitimate news, not potentially fake news or people claiming to be experts that aren't experts, or there's just so much content that

portrays itself as being legitimate on these social media platforms, and it isn't. And it's the spread of misinformation that's having an impact on all

areas of, I suppose, our social functioning.

So, there are -- yes, that's maybe where they get their content now. But five, six years ago, people weren't going to TikTok for the news. You could

just go get it elsewhere. And so, going back to these legitimate regulated sources is going to be good for the world.

FOSTER: Would you go further and say they shouldn't be allowed screens until a certain age because they're going to find a way around it anyway?

DR. ARMITAGE: I think screens is a very wide term and encapsulates a lot. So, I wouldn't say that. But I think it's the smaller the device, the more

problematic it is. This thing that you carry around in your pocket that pings and commands all of your attention. It's actually quite controlling,

is more problematic than, say, a television or a, you know, fixed desktop computer.

So, I think it is about thinking about what kind of technology you're going to introduce them to. What do they actually need and rules around them? So,

how are they used in your home? So, do I -- never really be in a bedroom? You know, a child is much more at risk using any kind of device in their

bedroom. And it affects their sleep, that affects their development, impulse control, emotional regulation, so on and so forth. So, it has a big

impact on them.

So, do all devices downstairs, charge them downstairs, have no devices at the dinner table and be consciously aware about how you are using these

screens. At the moment, we have a whole worldwide society of people who use these devices, but not necessarily consciously. And because everybody's

doing it from one-year-old up to 101-year-old, no one's really looking up to say, hang on a minute, this doesn't seem quite right.

FOSTER: OK. Dr. Charlotte Armitage, really appreciate your thoughts on this. I mean, it's just taken effect. So, we'll get the first sense of it

tomorrow, I guess.

Still to come tonight, it is streaking by Mars is getting relatively close to Earth. Is it a comet or is it something else? The story of 31/Atlas when

we come back.

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[14:55:00]

FOSTER: Just into CNN, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy says his country will hold elections in the next 60 to 90 days if the U.S. and

Europe can guarantee security. A short time ago, Mr. Zelenskyy told reporters, I'm ready for the elections. He pushed back on claims made by

U.S. President Donald Trump that he's clinging to power. In an interview with Politico, Mr. Trump said Ukraine was using war not to hold an

election. We'll have more coming up on this in the next hour.

NASA's released new pictures of an interstellar object that it says is a comet but could also be an alien spaceship. Comet 31/Atlas, or 3I/Atlas,

I'm not sure, has gotten the attention of astronomers because it originated outside our solar system but is now getting relatively close to Earth. The

fact that we have no idea what part of the universe it came from has led to a Harvard astrophysicist to say it's possible 31/Atlas could be an alien

spaceship. But NASA says they haven't seen anything to indicate it's more than a fast-moving chunk of rock and ice.

Thanks for watching. Stay with CNN. I'll have more in "What We Know" coming up next.

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