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Isa Soares Tonight

Tributes Pour In For Heroic Couple Who Tried To Stop Bondi Beach Shooters; Congress Receives Briefing From Top Trump Officials On The Ongoing Military Strikes Against Alleged Drug Boats; Nick Reiner Not Medically Cleared To Appear In Court Today After Arrest For The Murder Of His Parents; Zelenskyy: Russia Should Face Justice For Invading Ukraine; Zelenskyy Meets With European Leaders In Netherlands; Novelist Jane Austen On Her 250th Birthday. Aired 2-3p ET

Aired December 16, 2025 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00]

ISA SOARES, HOST, ISA SOARES TONIGHT: A very warm welcome to the show, everyone, I'm Isa Soares. Tonight, tributes flooding in for the heroic

couple seen trying to stop one of the Bondi Beach shooters. We'll have more on that and what we are learning this hour about the attackers.

Then Congress receives a briefing from top Trump officials on the ongoing military strikes against alleged drug boats, and Democrats -- well, they're

not happy. We're live on Capitol Hill with all the reaction. Plus, we are learning Nick Reiner has not been medically cleared to appear in court

today after being allegedly arrested for the murder of his parents -- alleged murder of his parents.

We'll have that and much more ahead for you. We do begin the hour with the massacre in Australia that appears to have been inspired by ISIS. Police

say the father and son accused of killing 15 people in Sydney were driven by Islamic state ideology. The mass shooting targeted crowds celebrating

the Jewish festival of Hanukkah on Bondi Beach.

One of Australia's, of course, top tourist destinations. It is being investigated as an act of terror. Police say the gunman had recently

traveled to the Philippines in an area with a long history of Islamic insurgencies. They say the vehicle registered to the son contained

improvised explosives and homemade ISIS flags.

Dozens of people were wounded in Sunday's massacre, 22 are still in hospital. At least, three of them in critical condition. Well, yesterday,

we told you about an extraordinary act of courage by a man who tackled one gunman and managed to disarm him. Now, video has emerged of another act of

bravery by a couple who tried to stop the attack before it even began. Our Will Ripley has all the details for you.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WILL RIPLEY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): New dash-cam video reveals the first minutes of the Bondi Beach massacre, and two

bystanders bravely trying to stop the attack. A husband and wife confront the older gunman, the father, Sajid Akram, leaving his car, rifle in hand,

watch closely.

The man in the purple shirt drags the attacker to the ground, wrestles for control, rips the gun out of his hands, swinging it almost like a bat. The

gunman takes another rifle from his car, opening fire on the man and woman. Australian media is identifying them as possibly the first two victims of

Sunday's attack.

The video also reveals a crucial piece of evidence. Look at the windshield, you see that black flag bearing what appears to be the logo of the Islamic

state.

ANTHONY ALBANESE, PRIME MINISTER, AUSRALIA: It would appear that there is evidence that this was inspired by a terrorist organization, by ISIS.

RIPLEY: Investigators are now looking beyond Australia. Police say the shooters recently traveled to the southern Philippines, a region long

plagued by ISIS-inspired-violence. Philippine officials say the pair arrived on November 1st for military-style training, leaving nearly four

weeks later. Returning to Australia just over two weeks before opening fire on Bondi Beach.

(on camera): More than 24 hours after the shooting, Bondi Beach remained an active crime scene. Yet, police tape blocking off the whole area. There's

this outdoor cinema where people basically dropped their stuff and ran. The whole area kind of feels eerily frozen in time.

NAVEED AKRAM, BONDI BEACH SHOOTING SUSPECT: This will come for you on the day of judgment --

RIPLEY (voice-over): Video is also emerging of the younger gunman, the son, Naveed Akram.

AKRAM: Allah will reward you for whatever action you do in his cause. Inshallah, this will save you on the day of judgment.

RIPLEY: A Sydney-based Islamic street preaching group confirms Akram appeared in a handful of videos in 2019, handing out pamphlets during

public outreach. The group says Akram was just 17 at the time. They insist they've had no contact with him since. In a statement, the group says it's

horrified by the attack and appalled by the actions of both father and son.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're allowed to have strong views, but to go and do that, like it's just wrong.

RIPLEY: Lockheed(ph) told CNN affiliate "Nine News", he's a former co- worker of the younger shooter. He calls Nav. He says Nav quit his bricklaying job about a month ago, and often talked about his love of

hunting.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It looked like he could handle a gun.

RIPLEY: Yes, well, he had --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes --

[14:05:00]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Like we used to talk about going shooting down at Crookwell(ph), and he'd say that -- he actually said to me once, I said,

oh, we should go for a shot down there one day -- one day, and he goes, oh, I don't know if that'd be good for you. And so, I thought that to be weird,

but yes, he's a bit of a weird cat.

RIPLEY: Will Ripley, CNN, Bondi Beach, Australia.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SOARES: Let's bring in our Lynda Kinkade for more on the victims of this horrific attack. So, Lynda, you know, we heard there from our correspondent

Will Ripley, who touched, of course, some more acts of heroism, which is wonderful to see amidst this horrific tragedy. Tell us about, first of all,

these two bystanders who -- Boris Gunman and his wife who -- Sofia, who both of them paid with their lives.

LYNDA KINKADE, CNN ANCHOR & REPORTER: Yes, Isa, that's right. What's emerged in the last 24 hours is an incredibly moving but tragic story of

ordinary people showing extraordinary courage. And I'm talking about this couple, Boris and Sofia Gunman. They were among the first victims of the

Bondi mass shooting.

And we know that Boris was a 69-year-old, retired mechanic, his wife worked for the Australian Post, and dash-cam vision now widely shared, shows the

couple running towards the danger, not moving away from it. And in that footage, we can see Boris wrestling with the gunman, trying to take the gun

off him, trying to disarm him, his wife there by his side.

Isa, we've since heard from his family. They said the couple were married for 34 years, Sofia was just days away from celebrating her 62nd birthday,

and also their 35th anniversary, wedding anniversary was coming up. Now, tragically, both suffered deadly gunshot wounds and died at the scene.

But they did -- we did hear from their family who said, you know, this just demonstrated what they were like in everyday life, instinctively and

selfishly trying to help others. Now, Isa, as I've mentioned to you, my cousin is part of the Jewish community in Bondi, I spoke to her this

morning. She said, you know, everyone is walking around, you know, just with a dazed, wide eye look, they're still in shock and they all know

someone impacted by this tragedy.

Now, the youngest victim was ten, Madeleine(ph), her family described her as a warm, beautiful child with just the loveliest smile. The eldest

victim, 87-year-old, his name is Alex Kleytman, he was a holocaust survivor who died shielding his wife. And of course, this tragedy claimed the lives

of 15 people across generations and across many countries, including Israel, Ukraine, Russian immigrants, and of course, many Australians. Isa?

SOARES: Yes, absolutely, incomprehensible, explains, of course, why people are just in a state of utter shock. Why you are talking about some of not

just the victims, but the people who are injured, what are you learning, Lynda, about the condition of the surviving suspect who was during -- was -

- who was injured, of course, during the attack?

KINKADE: Yes, so, there were -- there are two suspects named by police, Sajid Akram, of course, died at the scene. But his son, 24-year-old -- 24-

year-old Naveed Akram, he was in a coma. He was shot multiple times, said to be in a critical condition under hospital guard. We are hearing reports

that he may have regained consciousness now.

So, police are very keen to question him about his motives. And of course, those links we're hearing, two extremists, both the father and the son just

last month went to the Philippines. The south of the Philippines is known to house some ISIS militants, and according to our affiliate "ABC

Australia", these two undertook military training there.

Now, this is just a few weeks ago. Of course, the son was under investigation by ASIO, which is the Australian domestic terrorism

organization, back in 2019. That investigation lasted six months. They were looking into his links two radicalized individuals. At the time, they said

he didn't pose an imminent threat, that investigation ended.

And now, authorities are looking into whether he was radicalized after that period of time. So, they're looking into social media accounts and travel

history, and their communications. We understand that the father returned to Australia on an Indian passport, the son on an Australian passport. So,

the questioning people in the Philippines, India and of course, his inner circle within Australia, they have raided two homes there. Isa --

SOARES: Lynda Kinkade there for us, thank you Lynda, really appreciate it. Now, questions are mounting and pressure is also building as the U.S.

Defense Secretary and the Secretary of State briefed members of the U.S. Congress earlier today, lawmakers have been pressing for more information

about strikes on those alleged drug trafficking boats in the Caribbean, as well as Eastern Pacific. But Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth says there's

not a lot he can announce.

[14:10:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETE HEGSETH, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE, UNITED STATES: In keeping with longstanding Department of War policy, Department of Defense policy, of

course, we're not going to release a top secret, full unedited video of that to the general public. Haskin is asking, appropriate committees will

see it, but not the general public.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SOARES: Well, meantime, Senate Democratic leader Chuck Schumer says Hegseth refused to share an unedited video of the boat strikes even during a

classified briefing. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): In my gang of eight meeting last week, I asked Secretary Hegseth, let every senator see it. He said he'd think about it.

Today, he came up with no answer and no tape. His reasoning was that it might give things away that shouldn't be. I respect classification, when

you do it in a SCIFF, that argument is undercut. It's just with senators in the SCIFF.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SOARES: And the briefing comes as the U.S. military says eight people have been killed following a strike on three of those alleged drug boats on

Monday. At least, 95 people have been killed since September, as part of the Trump administration's campaign against what it says is narcotics

trafficking.

I want to bring in CNN's Arlette Saenz, who is on Capitol Hill, Natasha Bertrand, who is with us in Washington. Natasha, let me start with you. Is

it clear from the briefing, because it wasn't clear from the two little soundbites we played there, what the strategy is from this administration

regarding Venezuela and regarding Nicolas Maduro.

Because it started with alleged drug boats, then oil tankers, and then we even heard President Trump said he is going to strike on land. What more

are you hearing is actually come out of this?

NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, what I'm told is that lawmakers really haven't gotten a clear picture of what the actual

strategy is here, and it's even more muddled now after the President's Chief of Staff, Susie Wiles, gave an interview to "Vanity Fair", saying

that Trump wants to continue blowing up boats until Maduro cries uncle!

Essentially framing the campaign against the drug boats as an attempt at regime change in Venezuela, rather than what the administration has stated

publicly, which is that it's a campaign against, quote, "narco terrorists". And so, the full aim of these drug boat strikes really isn't clear at this

point, because, as has been made clear to lawmakers in many briefings, as officials have told us, these drug boat strikes -- they're targeting

relatively low level drug traffickers.

These are not necessarily people who are very high up on the food chain when it comes to the cartels. Some of them are affiliated with cartels, but

aren't even members of the cartels themselves. Also, the Coast Guard continues to interdict drugs in the Eastern Pacific Ocean, raising more

questions about why it is even necessary to continue lethally targeting the boats in the Caribbean and Eastern Pacific, as the administration has.

So, the overall strategy is still extremely muddled. And I think that President Trump has been saying repeatedly in recent weeks that he is just

about to carry out land strikes in Venezuela. They're going to happen any day now. That is an attempt, really, to keep President Maduro on his toes,

especially given the vast military presence that exists right now in the Caribbean.

All options, of course, are on the table. But in terms of what the administration is actually trying to get out of this, that is very much

unclear because President Maduro, as of right now, it doesn't seem like he's prepared to step down. Isa --

SOARES: Yes, it does -- indeed. And let me go to Arlette. Now, Arlette, given what Natasha just said, just how muddled then the strategy is. How is

that lack of clarity from this administration being met where you are? Well, just give us a sense of the reaction from both sides of the aisle.

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Democratic lawmakers emerged from that briefing quite frustrated with the fact that Secretary Hegseth would

not provide senators with the full video of that double-tap strike. He did note that they will be giving this video to relevant committees, likely the

Senate Armed Services Committee, maybe the House Armed Services Committee, as well, potentially others.

But in speaking with Democratic senators, they said that they emerged from that briefing not feeling like they really understood what the strategy and

what the end game of this administration is. We also spoke to some Republican senators, including Ohio Congressman, Senator Jon Husted, who

said that they did not talk about any potential future action against Venezuela.

He was specifically -- we asked if they talked about the potential for strikes within that country, and Husted said that they only focused on the

action that has been taken at this moment. He emerged from that briefing, like many Republicans, satisfied. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JON HUSTED (R-OH): We got a broader briefing on the scope of all that's happened, you know, as a classified briefing. So, I can't share

those things, but I'm confident as I said, that this is well thought out, well executed and legal, and that the administration is doing things

consistent with how previous operations have occurred in this -- in our Armed Forces over the last 25 years

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAENZ: Now, at least, one Republican senator did emerge a little bit critical from that briefing, that was Senator Susan Collins. She had

actually been briefed in recent weeks by Admiral Bradley, where she was shown the unedited video of that double-tap strike.

[14:15:00]

She said that she still has a lot of unanswered questions after this briefing with Hegseth and Rubio, and wouldn't weigh in on whether she

believes that the Trump administration did have the legal authority to carry out these strikes. I think another senator will be watching as

Senator Roger Wicker, who chairs the Senate Armed Services Committee.

He's vowed that there will be oversight of these strikes, but so far, he's really been very quiet after these administration briefings have taken

place. But for Democrats, they certainly feel that the Trump administration did not provide sufficient information, and said that they will continue to

push for the release of that full video.

SOARES: Arlette and Natasha for us there. Thank you very much, ladies. Appreciate it. Let me turn to Los Angeles because police in L.A. are

expected to present evidence to prosecutors today about the murder of filmmaker Rob Reiner and his wife, a photographer and producer, Michele

Reiner. The Reiner's 32-year-old son, Nick, has been taken into custody in connection to their deaths.

Nick Reiner is currently being held without bail. We are also learning this hour about the two, the hours, of course, prior to the Reiners' murders. A

source says Nick got into a fight with his father at a holiday party at the home of comedian Conan O'Brien. And former first lady Michelle Obama says

she and former President Barack Obama were supposed to see the Reiners the night they were killed.

Let's go to our Steve -- Stephanie Elam, who has been covering the story from the get-go from Los Angeles. Stephanie, just explain first, because we

understand now that Nick Reiner will not be making a court appearance today. Explain, first of all, the reasoning why?

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I have part of a reason for you, Isa, and it has to do with the fact that what we learned is that every day,

someone who is going to become -- go into court has to be presented, has to get a medical clearance. He was not medically cleared, according to his

lawyer, Alan Jackson.

That's what he told my producer upstairs. Said he was not medically cleared and therefore he is not going to be in court today. At the same time, we

understand that prosecutors have put together their charging document, however, has not been made public yet, because they did not go into court

on what he is being charged with.

Here's what we do know. We do know that Nick Reiner was arrested on the night of the murders late in the evening, about 6 hours or so after police

responded to the call about the Reiners being found in their home, and he was booked into jail in the wee hours of Monday morning. He's being held

without bail. But what is interesting here is that they're saying it's day- to-day, according to his lawyer.

We don't know whether he's going to be in court tomorrow or perhaps the next day. We also don't know why he wasn't medically cleared. We don't know

what that means. If it's as simple as just maybe being a cold or if it's something mental, we have no idea. So, there's lots of questions out there

about what this means.

But still, we do know that at this point, the District Attorney's Office has received the investigation from Los Angeles Police Department so that

they can move forward with charging. We also don't know what the motive -- there's no idea of what the motive could be. And we also don't know how the

Reiners were killed. So, these are some of the things that we may learn when we finally do hear from the District Attorney.

SOARES: And there are a lot of questions that we haven't had answered, of course, that's totally understandable. But give us a sense then, Stephanie,

of kind of the timeline, what we do have in terms of the timeline leading up to the murder.

ELAM: Well, there's little bits that we're getting more and more of. So, the biggest one being that there was this fight that many people saw

reportedly at Conan O'Brien's house. That it was verbal, it got loud. We do not know if the family all left together. We do know that Michele Reiner

was at that party as well, that several people saw them there that night at the party.

The other part that we don't know, at what point were the Reiners killed? We know that it was the Reiner's daughter that discovered their bodies

inside their home, and that police were called in the 3 O'clock hour local time in the afternoon. We don't know at what time they had been killed.

We also know that when Nick Reiner was taken into custody, they said he was taken into custody without incident later on that evening. But they did

wait to get a search warrant of the house. And they continue that investigation into the early morning hours. I was out there. I saw them

actually, when they finished their investigation, and they opened up the street again just before 6:00 a.m. yesterday.

So, little pieces of it, but still not yet clear on a motive, not that there would be any motive that would make this make sense. So many people

are --

SOARES: Indeed --

ELAM: Hurting today and still in shock.

SOARES: Absolutely right, Stephanie Elam there for us, good to see you, Stephanie. Thank you very much indeed. And still to come tonight, who is

this man? And he's -- is he the killer who shot at Brown University? Police release new evidence in their manhunt for a murderer. We'll have that

story. Plus, top European leaders say a ceasefire agreement between Russia and Ukraine may be closer than ever.

[14:20:00]

Just ahead, I'll speak to a French Foreign Ministry official for his take on the status of those peace talks.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SOARES: Welcome back. Police are hoping that a series of snippets of video will lead them to the shooter who killed two students at Brown University.

Authorities released the video clips of the man they believe is responsible for the weekend act. He's described as about 5 foot, 8 inches tall, with a

stocky build.

The suspected shooter is wearing a mask, as you can see there, but analysts say his body shape may -- and the way he walks could lead to his

identification. As authorities track the movements of the man, they say it appears he wandered around the neighborhood near Brown for several hours

before the shooting.

I want to bring in law -- chief and law enforcement analyst John Miller for more. John, you and I were talking yesterday, I'm just seeing now that

Providence police have released a new photo of the Brown shooting person of interest. They say -- mentioned an enhanced photo. I'm going to ask my team

to bring that up because that just came out in the last, what?

Twenty minutes or so. We're looking at this now. You and I were talking yesterday, John, about the importance of having these images, this new

evidence. Now that we have these images in these video, what does that tell us? Because I heard one law enforcement official saying this could be game-

changing.

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT & INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, what these pictures have been doing is, they have been driving leads since the

second video came out, where you don't just see the person from behind, but you now see the person moving around from head to toe. That is the kind of

thing that if you passed him in the street today, Isa, or I did, we wouldn't recognize him from this.

But if you knew him, you were a co-worker, a family member, you might. And we've seen that succeed in very similar circumstances in recent cases where

there was Charlie Kirk or the UnitedHealthcare CEO assassination, they're hoping for a break like that here. Now, this latest photo that was just

released is an FBI effort that was to enhance the kind of softer, lined, blurrier pictures by adding a little contrast, trying to bring up some

detail to make him more recognizable, more likely to someone who knows him.

But they've also used other techniques like photogrammetry, where you take that two dimensional image from the video, you measure his height against

other things, where you can go and get the exact measurements to determine his height, you know, approximate weight.

[14:25:00]

They've been trying to give people that they're looking to hear from the tools to say, is the person I'm thinking of in the ballpark?

SOARES: And give us a sense. You're so well connected, John. Give us a sense of what you're hearing in terms of the challenges they face, because

I don't mean to be facetious, because as we look at these videos and these photos, I mean, I can imagine people will be screaming at TV, that could be

anyone.

It's so grainy, the quality of the photos there. Wearing a mask, the clothes could really be anyone when they say stocky, it really could be,

right? So, speak to the challenges.

MILLER: Well, the challenges are when you're trying to crowd-source something, you want to reach as many people as possible. But, you know, if

you look at the Charlie Kirk assassination, who were the people who confronted the suspect and said, is that you? There were two groups of

people. One were his gaming buddies who said, you know, that looks a lot like you.

And the other more pointedly, was his parents, who then contacted law enforcement. In the Luigi Mangione case, his mother, who had reported him

as a missing person, reported to the local police department where he was living, saying, I think the guy in these pictures from the NYPD on the

other side of the country may be my missing son, which turned out to be correct.

That's the kind of break they're hoping for. But that's not all they're doing. This is the kind of thing that's crowd-sourced and can bring in

leads, but those leads are coming into a lead bucket that the Providence police are running with the FBI and other agencies. And, you know, you take

those leads and you triage them, does this have enough detail?

Can we start on this one right away? Does it sound more likely than the three leads behind it? And then you take the most viable leads and you

start sending people out. And I can tell you right now, there are more than one leads that they are taking seriously, that they are working on while

we're having this conversation.

Based on my experience in these investigations, either as an FBI official or an NYPD person involved in similar cases, any one of those leads can

look really good and then wash out a few hours later, or look like a long shot, and then turn into the thing that solves the case. It is literally

the rhythm and unpredictability of these things, which is why you have to look into every call, every tip that comes in.

SOARES: John Miller, it's such an important context. Thank you very much indeed. We're going to stay across that story, of course, for our viewers

right around the world.

MILLER: Bye --

SOARES: I do want to stay in the United States? Because President Trump's top aide is slamming "Vanity Fair" magazine, calling its interview with

her, a quote, "hit piece". White House Chief of Staff Susie Wiles got on -- goes on to say in her words, significant context was disregarded in the

interviews, Wiles says the President has, quote, "an alcoholics personality".

And she adds, there may be an element of retribution in the prosecutions against Mr. Trump's political opponents. According to the White House Press

Secretary, the Trump administration is united behind Wiles. And still to come tonight, is momentum building in peace talks to bring an end to

Russia's war in Ukraine? I'll discuss the latest negotiations with France's Foreign Ministry spokesperson. That is just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:31:47]

SOARES: Welcome back, everyone. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy says Russia should face justice for invading Ukraine. Mr. Zelenskyy is in

The Hague today, where he helped launch an international claims commission aimed at getting compensation from Russia for the damage done in Ukraine

during nearly four years of course of war.

As for peace talks, the Ukrainian leader says negotiators from Kyiv and Washington could meet again as soon as this weekend. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT t (through translator): The American partners have received European direction yesterday, and now I

think that after all of that, the Americans will reach out to the Russians, and then a meeting will follow between Ukraine and America in America on

the level of negotiating teams, maybe on the weekend, maybe a bit later, but the sooner the better.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SOARES: Meantime, the Kremlin is rejecting suggestions of a potential short-term ceasefire around Christmas, claiming it would allow Ukrainian

forces time to regroup.

Let's get more on this now and the talks between European leaders in the Netherlands today. I'm joined now by French Foreign Ministry spokesman

Pascal Confavreux. Pascal, great to have you back on the show. We are hearing, we heard in the last 48 hours or so, really signs of progress,

right, from the Europeans, from the Ukrainians, and even from the Americans, with President Trump basically saying the end of the Ukraine war

is closer now than ever.

How confident is the French government that President Putin will accept what has been proposed, or has been proposed so far?

PASCAL CONFAVREUX, FRENCH FOREIGN MINISTRY SPOKESPERSON: There has been very substantive talks these last weeks, these last days, and even at the

leaders' level yesterday. What was important was to build some convergence between the European Union, Ukraine, and the American negotiators, and I

think that's where we went, and convergence namely also on security guarantees, which are really extremely important, and the first base to go

forward.

SOARES: Right. Let's talk about those security guarantees then. What more can you tell us? Because yesterday we were hearing from our correspondent,

they were called platinum kind of level, right, platinum standard NATO- style guarantees, and we know they won't be on the table. We're hearing from the United States they won't be on the table forever. What does those

guarantees actually look like?

CONFAVREUX: The first security guarantee is first to help a strong Ukrainian army, up to 800,000 soldiers in peacetime. The second is to have

this multinational force, European-led multinational force, that we have been building during this last month at something which is called the

Coalition of the Willing. And third is to have a legally binding commitment by all the members. And so, including the European Union and also the

Americans, to be ready to face any future aggression. So, these are the three parts that we are discussing.

SOARES: Right. Let's break then those three parts into smaller bites just for our viewers right around the world. You talked there about a European-

led multinational force, which is what we heard, of course, from European leaders yesterday.

[14:35:00]

Contributions would be coming, from what I understand, from allies within the Coalition of the Willing, right, Pascal? Will France be offering troops

to this multinational force? And if so, what numbers here?

CONFAVREUX: Oh, it's too soon to say for the numbers. There is a long work of planification. President Zelenskyy and President Macron, when President

Zelenskyy was in Paris a few weeks ago, they visited Mont-Valerien, which is the future -- the headquarters of this planification. So, it's really an

intensive work that is being done of this multinational force.

It won't be on the front line. It will be on the second row. But what is important is to deter any future aggression. So, we have to be very strong

on these three parts.

SOARES: Right. I understand you can't give me, Pascal, a sense of the numbers, but is France prepared to put boots on the ground in that second

row?

CONFAVREUX: Oh, they will be among these are part of the options, of course. This Coalition of the Willing, it's co-led with the United Kingdom,

but you have over 30 countries that are taking place in these discussions.

SOARES: Right. OK. It's just important because we keep hearing about putting forces up, putting, you know, contributions, but we're not hearing

yet of countries putting their hands, saying, will we be putting, you know, our forces as part of this? So, it's important. That's why I was trying to

clarify that.

Let's talk about one of the biggest sticking points, one of the other points you mentioned there, and that is territory as well as land

concessions. The U.S., Pascal, negotiating team has proposed a kind of demilitarized area, right, which Ukraine, from what I understand, would

withdraw from, the Russia forces would not enter. Just two thoughts on this, to get your thinking on this. How confident is Europe, is France,

that Russia will abide by this, first of all?

CONFAVREUX: Oh, what we're not really sure about is that Russia wants peace. I think they have said no multiple times in the last weeks and

months. What we see is that Ukraine said, yes, that they were ready for a ceasefire as soon as spring, last spring. And so, yes, now all this work

that we have been doing between the Americans, the Ukrainians and the Europeans this last week, now it will be for also the Russians to say if

they are ready to go for peace, and we are not sure now.

SOARES: You're not sure, but I wonder then, Pascal, given, you know, the progress or the ground they have made, of course, in the last several

months, why they would accept this now?

CONFAVREUX: Oh, I think there is a kind of -- we need to de-zoom here. Since November 2022, so since when the front halted, the Russian army has

taken only less than 1 percent of the Ukrainian territory. So, of course, we see sometimes any village getting taken after another, but we don't have

to be to -- there is a military, in a way, there is a military stalemate also where they are.

Second also, the economy is not in a great shape. 40 percent of the Federal -- of the Russian budget is dedicated to the army, so it means that the

civil industry is shrinking, and you know that it's now the energy revenues of Russia at their lowest point since the beginning of the full-fledged

invasion of February 2022.

It's the results, not only, but the results also of the sanctions that we are putting on the ghost fleet, on the Russian economy. And so, we are

putting pressure on this Russian economy to push them towards the negotiations.

SOARES: Let's see how the Kremlin and President Putin does react. Pascal Confavreux, as always, great to have you on the show, Pascal. Thank you

very much indeed.

CONFAVREUX: Thank you.

SOARES: We are going to take a short break. We'll be back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:40:00]

SOARES: Well, it's a time for celebration, giving, decorations and the reflection, of course, on the year gone by. The holiday season is upon us

and some of our very own correspondents join me in the studio for a festive series of Isa's Book Club. First up, our Jomana Karadsheh tells me which

book she's enjoyed reading the most this year.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SOARES: Joining us on the Book Club for a very festive edition, of course, is our Jomana Karadsheh, a well-known face on the show, our international

correspondent. Jomana, welcome to our Book Club.

JOMANA KARADSHEH, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Thank you for having me.

SOARES: Our viewers will no doubt know you, you know, travelling the world for CNN, covering this year, I think it's fair to say, some truly horrific

stories and the wars that we have seen in particular in Gaza. You have spent a lot of time on the road. I just wonder whether you found time

during what has been a very busy news cycle to kind of decompress, to actually read fiction or non-fiction. What have you enjoyed this year?

KARADSHEH: This book, "Hostage," by Eli Sharabi. He's one of the Israeli hostages who was held in Gaza and was released. It is a gripping,

heartbreaking, just devastating story, his story and what he went through. And I think it's probably the first book that we have seen written by a

hostage who survived Gaza.

And honestly, Isa, it was one of those books where I couldn't put it down. And it was done within 24 hours. And just -- it's one thing to cover these

stories and it's another thing to read someone's own account of it. And truly, like, one of the most moving and difficult reads anyone could have.

SOARES: Do you -- just going back to the fact, you know, to Eli's story, but also the fact that you cover, you know, often the Middle East, do you

use some of these non-fiction works to actually formulate, to use for your own, you know, storytelling or reporting?

KARADSHEH: I think that's part of it. I think that's probably why I'm drawn to a lot of this, because I feel that it kind of gives you another window

into these stories that we are covering. And that might be one of the reasons why it's only non-fiction.

SOARES: Narrative is not linear, right? So, I think it's so important.

KARADSHEH: Exactly.

SOARES: So, that was really a standout for you.

KARADSHEH: Yes.

SOARES: What else have you enjoyed?

KARADSHEH: So, I mean, it's been very difficult. I started reading a book by a friend, someone who actually worked with us as journalists in the

field, Melvyn Downes. He is a former British Special Forces soldier. And he has worked now in private security, safety, supporting journalists in the

field, as well as other NGOs and others.

And he wrote this book, Isa, about his experience as being one of the first black men to become an elite soldier.

SOARES: Well, hold it up, Jomana.

KARADSHEH: And overcoming racism and just growing up and the racism he faced in this country.

[14:45:00]

And this is a book -- I've started reading, and I'm hoping to finish this over the holidays. But I've heard Mel's stories from him while we're in the

field. We were actually together in Turkey during the earthquake in 2023. And, you know, you could tell that this is someone who had a good story to

tell. But also, really disturbing hearing about the racism that he faced. And so, this is his story, his book, that's finally out.

SOARES: I wonder, Jomana, whether people watching this will feel, is there any -- do you have an optimistic, a positive view of humanity following

these books? Or do you see the worst in people?

KARADSHEH: Look, I think the people telling these stories are the ones that give you that kind of hope. There's a lot of darkness in this world. But

again, you meet these people or you read their stories. And you see, in the case of the third book we're about to talk about --

SOARES: Show it to us, yes.

KARADSHEH: -- that is the story of Narges Mohammadi. Iranian human rights and women's rights activist who was the Nobel Peace Prize laureate a couple

of years ago. And what she has gone through in her life is just unimaginable. Ripped away from her family, enduring the worst things that

you can imagine happening to her inside Iranian jails. Yet this is a woman who's refusing to be silenced.

SOARES: Yes.

KARADSHEH: The fact that she published a book while in prison, you know. It's that sort of thing that kind of gives you hope that there are people

out there.

SOARES: And you've reported on Narges before, haven't you?

KARADSHEH: Yes. We actually -- right before she won the Nobel Peace Prize, we interviewed her through Intermediary, sent her questions in prison and

got answers back from her. And when that announcement came, we had a piece ready to go about Narges. So, this is a book that, you know, I got it and

this is the book that I'm hoping to read next year. Because it's the stories and interviews with 14 women inside Iran's notorious Evin prison

and talking about the psychological torture and other forms of torture they've had to endure.

But she's a woman who gives me hope. You know, she's a woman who is fighting for women's rights. And it's these inspirational figures whose

stories I'm really drawn to.

SOARES: And for anyone who doesn't know you, Jomana, these books really sum up who you are. You care so much for people and for humanity. Jomana, I'm

really glad you could come on the show. We're going to gift you because, you know, to go with your really hard stories, a fluffier and lighter

accompaniment of our mug.

KARADSHEH: You know what? Maybe over Christmas, my son might convince me to have a bit of hot chocolate with that.

SOARES: There you go.

KARADSHEH: And maybe start reading "Harry Potter," not just watch the movies.

SOARES: There you go. Or if you prefer, red wine. It's also good. Thanks, Jomana.

KARADSHEH: Thank you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SOARES: Our thanks to Jomana for that. And still to come tonight, we'll turn our focus to a different genre of literature as we speak to a Jane

Austen scholar about the renowned author's legacy, marking, of course, a special birthday. That is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:50:00]

SOARES: Welcome back. Now, it might be Jane Austen's 250th birthday today, but in this case, age is indeed just a number. The author's celebrated work

dating back to the early 19th century remains timeless, even two centuries after its first release.

And it appears her popularity shows no signs of slowing down. This year alone, Focus Features unveiled a star-studded cast for its upcoming take on

"Sense and Sensibility." And Netflix announced their plans to remake "Pride and Prejudice" as a television series. This joins the ranks of Netflix's

acclaimed 2020 adaptation of "Emma," which follows a quintessential Jane Austen protagonist.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(MUSIC PLAYING)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Emma.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Emma.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Emma.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Emma.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SOARES: Love it. To discuss more about why Britain's beloved Regency-era author has transcended time and cultures, joining me now is Jane Austen

scholar Ellie Dashwood. Ellie, great to have you on the show. Look, so we've got new series coming, Netflix series, we've seen adaptations being

made, festivals being held. What is it, Ellie, about Jane Austen's body of work that is still relevant, you think, 250 years later?

ELLIE DASHWOOD, JANE AUSTEN SCHOLAR: I think you really hit on it. It transcends time. If you think about it, Jane Austen, when she first put

these books out, had these characters that people related to so much. Like even Princess Charlotte, back in the day, she was the most popular member

of the royal family, and yet when she read "Sense and Sensibility," she related to Marianne Dashwood. She saw herself in Marianne.

And likewise, today, if you ask most Jane Austen fans, what's one of your favorite things about her books, they say the characters, they see

themselves as these heroines. Sometimes they'll get very specific. They're like, I'm 50 percent this character and 50 percent this character. But I

think it just really shows how much insight she had into humans when making these characters, that they never go out of style.

SOARES: I do wonder, though, you know, in a world, and we've all read Jane Austen, in a world where women can now own property, buy and own property,

where women can move in, right, with a man without ruining the family's reputation, in a world so different, of course, from the Jane Austen era,

what is it about those characters that speaks to people? Just speak to some of the themes that resonate.

DASHWOOD: Yes, you know, that is a great question. I think Jane Austen, she was a great novelist, but even more so, she was a great studier of human

characters. She watched other people around her very closely, and she was able to sort of drill down to the most basic aspects of what makes us human

and record that.

So, even though so much in the world has changed, basically what makes us human has not changed. And even in things like relationship dynamics, she

created the classic enemies to lovers plotline. And at the same time, it works because the deep underlying psychology of humans has remained the

same.

SOARES: And it's resonating a lot with the younger generation. I'm not sure whether that's because of book talk, or why it's transcended that, but I'm

thinking of, like, of Jane Bennett, for example, in "Pride and Prejudice." Her story, I think it's -- I'm guessing it's one that would resonate with

the younger generation. It's kind of the coming-of-age story, emotional journeys that so many are going through. Is that what you're hearing?

DASHWOOD: Yes, definitely. They relate to the emotional aspect. She really was great at portraying what women feel and how they perceive the world.

And, too, like, I think throughout Jane Austen's, like, 250 years, there has been peaks and ebbs in her popularity. And one of them was in the late

Victorian era, where she actually became very popular with men.

[14:55:00]

A lot of men in the Victorian era were, like, in love with Elizabeth Bennet. And then, in the '90s, there was another peak following, of course,

the '95 "Pride and Prejudice." And so, as we see these movies come out from, like, Netflix, it's just going to make more characters available to

more people for them to fall in love with them.

SOARES: Yes. And we've got about a minute left on the show, Ellie, so let me ask you this. I'm guessing there is also an element of escapism, right,

in a moment where it's so dark, that people need this.

DASHWOOD: Oh, yes. And Jane Austen's books have always been that way. Even soldiers in World War I would read it in the trenches because they wanted

to escape to her world of balls and estates.

SOARES: What is your favorite Jane Austen novel, just before we wrap up here?

DASHWOOD: I have to be cliche and say "Pride and Prejudice."

SOARES: I agree with you, 100 percent. Ellie, thank you very much indeed. Really appreciate you taking the time to speak to us. Thank you. Very busy

day for you here on the show.

Thank you very much for your company. Do stay right here, "What We Know" with Max Foster is up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:00:00]

END