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Isa Soares Tonight
Deadline to Release Epstein Files By DOJ Looms; EU Agrees to Loan Kyiv $105 Billion; Police Arrest Suspect in Brown University Shooting; Trump Not Ruling Out War With Venezuela; Sources: Top Military Lawyer Told U.S. Joint Chiefs Chair Officers Should Retire If Faced With Unlawful Order; Man Found Guilty Of Drugging, Raping Unconscious Wife; Bespoke Tailoring At The Heart Of Slow Luxury; Record-Setting Director James Cameron Speaks To CNN; Grand Finale With Leonardo DiCaprio And Jennifer Lawrence. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired December 19, 2025 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00]
MAX FOSTER, HOST, ISA SOARES TONIGHT: A very warm welcome to the show, everyone, I'm Max Foster in for Isa Soares. Tonight, we're just hours away
from the Justice Department's deadline to release the Epstein files. But officials say not all the documents will be released today.
Then a lifeline for Ukraine as the EU agrees to loan Kyiv $105 billion. We'll dig into what it took to make this deal, and why they decided against
using Russian frozen assets. Plus, the manhunt is over and it was a Reddit post that helped police track down the suspected shooter of two Brown
University students. That, and much more just ahead.
Well, today is the deadline for the U.S. Justice Department to release all of the so-called Jeffrey Epstein files. Under a new law signed a month ago
today, the DOJ has until midnight to release all of the files in a searchable downloadable format, with a few exceptions.
Earlier, deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche said the department will release several hundred thousand documents related to the convicted sex
offender today, with more to come in the next few weeks. The bills Republican co-sponsor is warning that failing to turn over all of the
documents is breaking the law.
And a top Democratic senator put it like this, "the DOJ, Donald Trump and Pam Bondi are hell bent on hiding the truth." We're covering this story
from multiple angles for you. In a moment, we'll check in at the White House. But first, here's our crime and justice correspondent, Katelyn
Polantz.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN CRIME & JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Full transparency for the Epstein files today, not exactly. The Justice
Department is already publicly saying that not all of the Epstein files in their possession will be released today, the day of the deadline of the act
of Congress making those files transparent.
They say that there are several hundred thousand documents that will be out today, and then several hundred thousand more over the next few weeks. Part
of it, it's quite a large task for the Justice Department to be sifting through these files. It takes a lot of time to go through them.
They're also making redactions to them to make sure information that's very sensitive, even victims information, private information, all of that needs
to be taken out or blacked out on those pages of files in the hundreds of thousands of pages. And so, they're just not going to be done with the work
today.
This is something that we're going to be watching to see exactly how members of Congress respond to. We are already hearing from Democrats on
the Hill saying that this isn't in full compliance with the law as it should be, and that they may need to use other tools available to force the
Justice Department to comply.
That can even include legal action, going to court. But this is a very shifting day. It is a day where we're watching to see, even when documents
start to be released, and we're also waiting to see what else the Justice Department may say about the redactions that they will be making, as well
as why not all of the documents would be coming out today.
It's a day with a lot of frustration, a lot of sensitivities as well. We don't know exactly what's in these files, but it's very possible that it's
much that is redundant already to what is out there in the public sphere. There's already thousands of pages of documents related to Jeffrey Epstein
and the investigation into his co-conspirator Ghislaine Maxwell.
Who was convicted at a trial, a trial that would have put on display not just evidence about them and their sex trafficking of minors, but also
victim statements. We're waiting to see if the victims, too, are satisfied with this release. They have been concerned about being retriggered or to
have a situation where their information is out there publicly and it shouldn't be.
But they're also calling for transparency. So, a big day for all. Watching closely. It's not going to be the end of the push for transparency on the
Epstein files, that's for sure. Back to you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOSTER: OK, let's get to the White House now, CNN's Alayna Treene -- I was speaking to a therapist, Alayna, yesterday, he works with many of the
survivors.
[14:05:00]
And she said, this is exactly what they were expecting and dreading a delay in the release in the files. And I think, you know, there's going to be
some questions around the fact that we're only learning about this now that there's going to be a delay when they've had weeks to know that they've got
a lot of work to do.
ALAYNA TREENE, CNN REPORTER: Well, that's exactly what I think, and I think Katelyn put it very well as well, Max, this idea that people are
going to be left very dissatisfied, not only because we are likely to have many redactions, see many redactions in the files that they do release.
And I will say the deputy Attorney General said we should expect several thousands of documents to be released today. But this idea of not -- we're
not going to get all of them. And that is what Congress in the law that they passed last month stated that they needed to do by this deadline.
By midnight tonight, they needed to release all of the documents related to the Epstein investigation. And so, you're right. I think, you know, part of
it, when I was asking, talking to sources this week about when we could expect this, knowing that the deadline was today, and that the Justice
Department was going to need to act by today to release these files.
You know, I was asking them about the timing of this. Should we -- would we expect it before Friday? And part of it is a lot of people as well are
arguing, are they trying to bury this so close to the holidays, doing this at the last moment? And then, of course, bringing out in the 11th hour this
idea that, you know, there's just too much work to be done and they won't be able to meet the deadline passed in that law by Congress.
And so, again, a lot of -- I think people going to be dissatisfied. Now, what I'm going to be watching for, Max, we obviously do not have these
documents just yet, but there is an event beginning just now in the Oval Office -- or, excuse me, in the Roosevelt room here at the White House with
President Trump, it's unrelated, it's a healthcare announcement, but reporters are going to be in the room.
And I'm curious if he's actually going to take questions, because of course, this is going to be, I think, the number one topic that people are
going to try to press the President on this idea of why aren't all the files being released, and what is the messaging on this? And of course, it
also comes as we know that there's been so much criticism of how this broader Trump administration has handled this entire investigation and all
of the files.
I mean, I'd remind you that during the campaign before President Trump came into office for his second term, it was his own supporters, his own people
in this cabinet, even people like the Vice President, J.D. Vance, the FBI Director, Kash Patel, they were the ones who were calling and making
demands that these files be released publicly.
And so, there's been a lot of questions and skepticism of whether there's been enough transparency, and whether the President is doing anything, you
know, potentially to protect people. That's been a lot of the allegations we know people have made. So, we're going to have to see what is in these
files and what we actually get.
But tons of questions still to be answered. And one thing I just wanted to add to this as well is, I'd remind you, there was that "vanity Fair" piece
published earlier this week with a number of very candid on the record quotes from the White House Chief of Staff, Susie Wiles. Among them was
criticism she made of the Attorney General, Pam Bondi, in saying that she had completely "whiffed", were the words the White House Chief of Staff
used, the investigation and the handling of the Epstein files.
So, again, a very momentous day for people who have been waiting for a lot of answers, but also one that will likely leave them wanting for more.
FOSTER: Alayna, I'll let you watch that press conference. Thank you so much, and we will have much more coverage of the Epstein files throughout
our show coming up at the half hour, I'll be speaking to one of the top political analysts in the U.S. about the political fallout from all of
this.
Meanwhile, the European Union throwing Ukraine a lifeline. Kyiv is running out of money as it fights to hold territory against Russia. So, the EU has
now stepped in to provide desperately needed cash to the tune of $105 billion over the next two years. It's using borrowed money rather than
tapping into the frozen Russian assets held in the bloc. The European Council President got straight to the point. Ukraine is not alone.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANTONIO COSTA, PRESIDENT, EUROPEAN COUNCIL: The message we are sending to Russia today is crystal clear. First, you have not achieved your objectives
in Ukraine. Second, Europe stands with Ukraine today, tomorrow and as long as necessary.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: In Moscow, Vladimir Putin signaling there won't be any compromise on Ukraine. He says he's already made compromises. But the Russian
President also says Moscow will not launch new, quote, "special military operations if it's treated with respect", his words, by the west. He uses
annual news conference earlier today to send this message.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VLADIMIR PUTIN, PRESIDENT, RUSSIA (through translator): We are ready to work with you, with U.K., with Europe in whole, with the U.S., but on equal
terms and mutual respect. It is not us who are fighting with you. It is you who are fighting us via the Ukrainian nationalists.
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We are ready to cease these hostilities immediately while ensuring Russia's security in the medium and long term.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: In the U.S., President Donald Trump's special envoy, Steve Witkoff, expected to meet with a top Putin aide today in Miami. Ukrainian
envoys are also set to meet with U.S. officials. And we've got word a European team will join those talks now. Fred Pleitgen live for us in
Moscow. Fred?
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Maxie, a lot of momentum in the diplomatic sphere, if you will, with those
talks going on in the Miami area are set to happen in the Miami area involving the Ukrainians. Now, we're hearing, as you stated, the Europeans
as well.
And, of course, that Russian envoy also expected, as the Trump administration believes that there is indeed a lot of momentum going on
right now towards a possible peace agreement. But you know, having been at Vladimir Putin's press conference, year-end press conference here in Moscow
which lasted well over four and a half hours, it certainly seems as though the Russian leader does have more reservations than the U.S. might have
towards a possible momentum, towards a peace agreement.
He says that the Russians essentially have already compromised. He was speaking about some of the things that President Trump and the Russian
leader spoke about when they met in Alaska earlier this year. So, he says right now, he believes that the ball is firmly in the court of the west.
And one of the big lightning-rod issues was that possible use of Russian funds to help the Ukrainians. Of course, in the end, that's not the way
that the Europeans went, but it was still something that Vladimir Putin also ripped into as well, calling that not stealing, but robbery because it
was happening in broad daylight, as he put it. I want to listen in to some of what the Russian President said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PUTIN (through translator): A theft is a secret stealing of property. But here they're trying to do it openly. It's a robbery. But why are they
failing? Because the consequences for them will be severe.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PLEITGEN: So there, Vladimir Putin saying that one of the reasons why the Europeans, in the end, did not use those Russian funds or aren't yet using
those Russian funds is because its' also a problem for the European Union and hurts trust in the European Union. But as far as those talks are
concerned, that are set to happen over the course of the weekend and also today as well, Max.
There's really two issues that are very big right now, and certainly seem to be ones that are an impasse. One is possible security guarantees for
Ukraine, where the U.S. says that it's offering almost NATO-like security guarantees in return for Ukraine not going into NATO.
It's unclear whether or not that is going to be too much for the Russians to accept. And then, of course, the widest problem, if you will, which is
the problem of territories, the Russians want Ukraine to cede territory to Russia, including some territory that the Russians don't even currently
hold.
The Ukrainians are saying that is absolutely not going to happen. Very hard to see how any sort of way forward is going to be found out of that
impasse. Max.
FOSTER: Fred Pleitgen, appreciate it, live from Moscow. Thank you. Portuguese police are assisting officials in the U.S. to learn more about
the suspect in the Brown University and MIT shootings. He's been identified as Claudio Neves Valente; the 48-year-old suspect was a Portuguese national
and a former student at Brown University.
On Thursday night, officials announced they had found Valente. He was dead in a storage unit in New Hampshire after apparently taking his own life. An
affidavit says a university custodian had spotted someone resembling the suspect. A Reddit post also helped authorities narrow down suspects and
link of rental car to both crimes -- on both crime scenes, rather.
Two Brown University students were killed, along with a professor from MIT, six survivors remain in the hospital, they're listed in stable condition.
Joining us now from Rhode Island is CNN's Brian Todd. A fascinating investigation in the end, but still, so many questions about what linked
these two crime scenes.
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Max, a lot of questions remaining. And I just now spoke to chief Oscar Perez of the Providence
Police and asked him some very relevant questions as to whether there's new information since last night, since they broke the news of this man's
identity.
Specifically, do they have any more information on a motive for the Brown University shootings or the killing of the professor? He said they do not
have new information on a possible motive for either of those two sets of shootings. So, that's a key update or maybe non-update that we have, but we
did just ask about it.
Have you learned anything since last night about a motive? Not anything that they are able to tell us, but the chief did tell us some interesting
new nuggets about their investigation and what they've been able to find out about this alleged shooter. And again, his name is Claudio Neves
Valente, age 48, a Portuguese national.
[14:15:00]
Chief Perez said that this suspect was very -- and this is the chief's word, quote, "strategic" in his movements around Brown University in the
days and weeks before the shooting. The chief said that the suspect would drive around Providence, on streets that were not major thoroughfares in an
effort to avoid detection by license-plate reading cameras, other surveillance cameras.
That's a new kind of nugget that I just got from the chief a few moments ago, that this man was very strategic in his movements and his planning,
and as we know from the news conference last night, he often changed license plates on the vehicle that he was driving after the shootings in an
effort to evade detection.
But still, license plate reading cameras were able to catch the license plates that he was using and match them to license plates that they had
suspected was being used -- were being used in the vehicle that was tied to the MIT shooting. In addition, Max, you know, they've had this man's name
for now, about a day and a half.
They claimed last night that they have had his name since Wednesday afternoon or evening. And I asked the chief, are there any relatives of
this man in Portugal or anywhere else that law enforcement has been able to reach or speak with, regarding his background, his motive?
And he said, no, they have not been able to connect with any relatives that this man had in Portugal or anywhere else. And that doesn't mean they
won't, because they're still looking for them and they're investigating all of this. This is still early days as far as them having a name.
So, they are actively looking for relatives of this man, Max. And, you know, they are still talking a lot about this second person who, according
to the affidavit, his name is John. We don't know if that's his real name, how crucial he was. This is a man who came in proximity to the suspect a
couple of hours before the shooting.
He confronted him on campus. He followed him around according to authorities. He confronted him in a bathroom of the same building where the
shootings took place. He then followed him around. He even chased him at one point, according to the chief.
And then later, once they had put out basically an all points bulletin to try to get this person to talk to them, he came forward and gave a lot of
information to police about what he had seen and his interactions with this man. He had actually had words with him.
He had confronted him, had words with him saying, you know, what are you doing here? He suspected him. He was acting suspicious. He chased him at
one point according to authorities, the suspect even turned and confronted him and said, why are you harassing me? And then the two men kind of split
apart there. But this was the person who gave them the crucial information, Max, that led them to this suspect.
FOSTER: Yes, there was criticism, wasn't there? Of the investigation initially, but certainly by the end it was so forensic, wasn't it? It was
pretty incredible. Brian, thank you so much.
TODD: Absolutely.
FOSTER: Australian Prime Minister Anthony Albanese announced a gun buyback plan in the wake of the deadly Bondi Beach shooting on Sunday. The scheme
will collect weapons and offer payments to people who surrender their firearms. Federal police will then be responsible for destroying them.
He also declared December the 21st as a day of reflection for the 15 victims killed at the Hanukkah celebration. Two of the victims are Boris
and Sofia Gurman, who were laid to rest in Sydney on Friday. The hero couple confronted one of the suspected gunman before they were fatally
shot.
Five days on from the shooting, Australians are coming together to honor those who lost their lives. This drone footage from Bondi Beach shows
hundreds of surfers and swimmers paddling out to sea in a public display of unity. Still to come, these buildings, damaged by war, aren't fit for human
beings. But many Palestinians in Gaza feel they have no choice but to risk their lives to take shelter.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:20:00]
FOSTER: U.S. special envoy Steve Witkoff is seeking regional help in getting the next phase of the Gaza ceasefire deal. He is expected to meet
in Miami today with top officials from Qatar, Egypt and Turkey. There are still major details of the plan to be worked out, including how Hamas will
be disarmed and when?
Who will be temporarily governing Gaza, and which countries will be part of a stabilization force. The U.N. is welcoming a new report that Gaza is no
longer in famine, but warns the gains made in staving off hunger are perilously fragile.
The global hunger monitor that first declared famine four months ago now says access for food deliveries has improved since the ceasefire. But it
says the situation remains critical, even catastrophic in parts. For the people enduring hardship, of course, the precise terms may not mean
anything or change their daily reality. The U.N. Secretary-General says what they need is more help now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANTONIO GUTERRES, SECRETARY-GENERAL, UNITED NATIONS: One-point-six million people in Gaza, more than 75 percent of the population, are projected to
face extreme levels of acute food insecurity and critical malnutrition risks.
It breaks my heart to see the ongoing scale of human suffering in Gaza. Families are enduring the unendurable, children are forced to sleep in
flooded tents, buildings already battered by bombardment are collapsing under the weight of rain and wind, claiming more civilian lives.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: Our Paula Hancocks takes a closer look now at those buildings, The Secretary-General was mentioning there, showing us just how dangerous they
are for families desperate for shelter amid the Winter chill.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): These buildings defy gravity. Top floors collapsed, vast slabs of concrete are
tenuously balanced, potholed walls that do not look strong enough to hold the ruins together.
Yet, countless families across Gaza have no choice but to live inside this wreckage. Buildings exposed to the elements, no protection against Winter
storms. Here, Abu Naba(ph) says her family cannot move back to their home in Shejaiya, as the Israeli military occupies the area.
"On the first day of the storm", she says, "we could hear stones cracking above our heads. Sand was falling into our eyes, we covered our heads to
protect us from the water."
While the ceasefire appears to be holding, the United Nations says two years of Israeli strikes have left more than 80 percent of buildings
destroyed or damaged. Of those buildings still standing, almost none would be considered habitable elsewhere in the world.
Awan Al-Haj(ph) says every building in this area of Khan Younis is the same. Gaza's Civil Defense recommends the displaced should leave damaged
buildings during the rains, but for most, there is no other option. He says "the storm comes, then sand, water, rubble comes down."
"Just like this, every building has collapses, but what is the alternative? Is the alternative to go and sit by the sea or in a tent in the freezing
cold or in the water?" This woman agrees. Her granddaughter was born just days ago, she says their tent flooded and collapsed during the last storm.
[14:25:00]
They now shelter in wreckage she knows could become their tomb. "If we do not die because of the Israeli", she says, "we will die when the house
collapses on us because this roof, this entire living room roof is going to fall." And they do fall frequently.
When this building in Al-Shati Camp collapsed Tuesday, it killed the owner and injured two others. One of the neighbors says "houses keep collapsing.
Someone do something about how we are living, day-after-day, a house falls day-after-day, people die."
The United Nations says it's blocked by Israel from directly bringing aid into Gaza. It says 1.3 million Palestinians need urgent shelter this
Winter, Israel says close to 310,000 tents and tarpaulins have entered Gaza recently. It is an impossible choice for Palestinians who survived the war.
A limited number of tents that can flood or be swept away or ruin building that could collapse at any time. Paula Hancocks, CNN, Abu Dhabi.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOSTER: Still to come tonight, as the deadline to release the Epstein files looms over the Department of Justice, I'll speak to a political
analyst about what the next few hours could bring.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
FOSTER: Returning to our top story. We are just hours away from the midnight deadline to release the Epstein files. The clock is ticking for
the Department of Justice as they prepare to release documents related to the case, several hundred thousand of them, according to the Deputy
Attorney General Todd Blanche, with more to come as well in the next few weeks.
Today's deadline is the work of President Donald Trump who served the DOJ with a bipartisan bill last month, starting a 30-day countdown to release
more information tied to sex offender Jeffrey Epstein.
For more on the political angle of this story, I'm joined by Larry Sabato, director of the Center for Politics at the University of Virginia. Larry,
thank you so much for joining us.
So, we find out today that we're not going to get all the documents. Why didn't they tell us before and what blowback will they get from that?
LARRY SABATO, DIRECTOR, UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA CENTER FOR POLITICS: Well, it's a Friday, Max, and the deadline is midnight, and it's Christmas week
coming up. So, this is good timing for disappointing people because most people won't hear about it. Now, the people who are most concerned with it
will know. But you know, I have to say, all the way along given the number of documents and files that were in this package concerning Epstein, it was
impossible -- I mean, literally impossible to review them all and to decide which pieces to redact, that is to black out.
I worked with the JFK files, the JFK assassination files, and I can tell you it's always a disappointment when these things are released because you
will get many pages with two or three words on the page, everything else blacked out. This was inevitable. It's going to take weeks or months to get
more. Now, they should have told people the truth from the beginning, but they didn't. And it serves their interest but certainly doesn't serve the
interests of the survivors.
FOSTER: Yes. Well, I spoke to a representative of the survivors yesterday. They do want redactions because they don't -- you know, they don't want to
be their clients all over the detail here. So, they accept that there are redactions. But I guess my issue is it just speaks to the you know what
some call the botched effort around these Epstein files being released throughout, that they -- you know, they could have given a warning to the
survivors a week ago that they weren't going to be able to redact all of the documents they want to by Friday. Instead, they let them believe they
were all going to come out.
SABATO: Yes. And that's a mistake. It will eventually happen that they will get at least technically all the documents released. But again, I've had a
lot of experience with federal documents being released and I guarantee you the redactions will be, shall we say, generous. It will take fight after
fight after fight and years to get more of the pieces that are redacted unredacted and released. That's the reality of this kind of process. And
it's intentional because they don't want more focus publicly, press, etcetera than they absolutely have to have.
So, I'm not excusing it. I'm just telling you this was guaranteed. And people should have been more honest about it, but that's government for
you.
FOSTER: And it's largely going to come down to academics like yourself, journalists like us to go through all of these documents to try to figure
out what's newsworthy, what the survivors will need to hear. That's a huge process in itself, isn't it? So, you know, this is -- there's going to be a
drip-drip surely over the next few weeks, even based on this dump that we're getting tonight.
SABATO: Yes. And it will be a drip-drip. It's kind of like one of the Great Lakes. I'm not going to say it's the Pacific or Atlantic Ocean, but the
drip-drip will have to fill one of the Great Lakes. And that's why it's going to take so long to do. And again, that also assumes that we have had
100 percent preservation of the materials that are supposed to be released. Again, based on my experience, it's amazing how many things get lost or
destroyed I'm sure unintentionally. But you never get a full accounting. And it's always wrong to promise people a full accounting because you know
what's going to happen on the way to the conclusion.
FOSTER: In terms -- you know, the -- when I was talking about the redactions, I was referring to the women. They want redactions because they
don't know what's in there. Will the redactions also apply to the very high-profile men, for example, that we've seen in many of the images
released from the estate recently?
SABATO: Well, I don't know since I haven't seen the redactions, but I personally would bet my bottom dollar on it, there are going to be
protections made for people who were involved in the real scandal. And they have the justification in the law, which is that it's important to take
these actions to protect people's privacy. And it's wrong when the privacy isn't protected.
Again, going back to the JFK documents, incredibly, they released Social Security numbers of people who were in these documents. It is strictly
forbidden by law. So, you do want to make sure those things don't happen. But again, when judgment is involved, that's going to bring into account
political factors. And the judgment is going to be broader on the redactions for people who may be friendly to the administration.
[14:35:42]
FOSTER: It's going to be interesting. Larry, thank you so much for joining us just a few hours --
SABATO: Thank you.
FOSTER: -- before the Epstein files are all meant to be released.
Now, new developments in the Trump Administration's pressure campaign, meanwhile, against Venezuelan President, Nicolas Maduro, in the last few
hours. At his end-of-year press conference, U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio called the continuance of the status quo with Maduro's regime
intolerable for the United States.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARCO RUBIO, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: At the end of the day, it is clear that the current status quo with the Venezuelan regime is intolerable for
the United States. The status quo that they operate and cooperate with terrorist organizations against the national interest of the United States.
Not just cooperate, but partner with and participate in activities that threaten the national interest of the United States. So yes, our goal is to
change that dynamic. And that's why the president's doing what he's doing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: Those comments came after his boss, President Trump, told NBC that he has not ruled out going to war with Venezuela. More than 100 people have
now died in U.S. strikes on alleged drug boats. That includes five people killed on Thursday in U.S. strikes against two vessels. A top lawyer for
the U.S. military has been advising officers to retire rather than quit if they believe the orders they are being given are unlawful. According to
sources, the guidance came from a lawyer for the nation's Joint Chiefs of Staff. He recommended requesting to retire was better than resigning in
protest which could be seen as a political act.
Natasha Bertrand has been doing this fascinating exclusive reporting. Just explain the thinking behind this, Natasha.
NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: So, this came about because the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff who is the top U.S.
general in the country, he actually asked for a recommendation from his lawyer about what exactly constituted an unlawful order and what was the
response that a commander should have if they believed that they had received an illegal order. And that stemmed, of course, from that video
that six Democratic lawmakers made last month in which they urged troops to disobey unlawful orders and said that in fact it was their duty to do so.
Now, what this lawyer, Brigadier General Eric Widmar, told Caine was that sure, you know, if a commander or if a senior officer believes that they
are in receipt of an illegal order, they should consult with lawyers, they should seek counsel, they should seek advice. But if after all of that they
still believe that this order is illegal and they simply cannot carry it out, then they should seek to retire instead of resigning in protest,
instead of picking a fight internally in an attempt to get fired because those could be seen as political acts.
Now, this is important because it kind of sheds light on how top military officials are thinking about an issue that has really reached a fever pitch
in recent weeks. As we know, lawmakers have been asking questions over the last several weeks about the boat strikes that the U.S. military is
carrying out in the Caribbean and the Eastern Pacific about whether those are legal. And of course, there was that double-tap strike that
deliberately killed survivors on September 2nd. So, it's important, you know, to understand what the advice is and whether Caine in his
conversations with senior military officials is discussing this option with them to retire early, quietly instead of making a fuss, resigning, making a
political statement.
Now, this is also causing a lot of consternation among current and former officials that we've spoken to who say that this could perpetuate a culture
of silence and a lack of accountability if this is truly the advice that is being given. One former senior defense official said that "A commissioned
officer has every right to say this is wrong and shouldn't be -- shouldn't be expected to privately and quietly and silently walk away just because
they're given a free pass to do so." So, definitely something that they're talking about at the most senior levels of the U.S. military, Max.
FOSTER: Fascinating. Natasha, I appreciate you joining us with that.
Now to a shocking case in Germany where a man has been found guilty of drugging and raping his unconscious wife over a period of years. The abuse
was filmed and posted on the internet. The verdict comes a year on from a similar case in France which raised questions about the extent of gender-
based violence and misogyny. Saskya Vandoorne has more.
[14:40:02]
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SASKYA VANDOORNE, CNN PARIS BUREAU CHIEF: It's been dubbed the German Pelicot after the French case of a husband who drugged his wife, recruited
dozens of men to rape her, and filmed the abuse. On Friday, in Aachen, a German court found a 61-year-old school janitor identified as Fernando P.
guilty of secretly drugging and raping his wife for years. He also filmed the abuse and shared it online. A judge sentenced him to eight years in
prison but the ruling can be appealed.
VANDOORNE: The verdict comes exactly one year to the day after 46 men were found guilty of raping Gisele Pelicot. And I was in the courtroom that day
in Avenue, and I never thought that a year on I'd be covering a case with such striking similarities.
VANDOORNE (voice-over): Having followed both trials, there's generally a very much shared playbook seen in such cases, using the online world to
share and amplify this kind of abuse. But unlike Gisele Pelicot, the victim in the Aachen case has chosen to remain anonymous. Shortly after the trial
began, the public was excluded from the courtroom to protect the victim's privacy.
According to local media reports, the defendant later confessed to most of the acts during closed door hearings. German campaigners say current
consent laws don't protect women well enough from this kind of abuse. While this French lawmaker points towards a much wider trend.
SANDRINE JOSSO, FRENCH LAWMAKER (through translator): During my government assignment, I traveled to quite a few countries. And in fact, these
operating methods are everywhere in every country. They're further activated by social networks where communities come together and share tips
and tricks.
VANDOORNE (voice-over): This whole issue is sure to come under the microscope once again when Gisele Pelicot publishes her memoir in two
months' time.
Saskya Vandoorne, CNN Paris.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
FOSTER: Sometimes the best things in life take a little extra time. From piecing together a luxury fabric to a bestow -- bespoke tailoring service
in a modern atelier in London. In this last episode of Seasons, host Laura Jackson discovers the secret behind slow luxury and the craftsmanship
behind garments that last a lifetime.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LAURA JACKSON, CNN HOST (voice-over): In the heart of London, one of Mayfair's newest tailoring houses is quietly rewriting the rules of bespoke
fashion.
JACKSON: Hi!
HATTIE GLENDENNING, FOUNDER, HAX: Hi!
JACKSON (voice-over): Hax was founded by Hattie, who wanted to redefine who tailoring is for and how we wear it.
[14:45:05]
GLENDENNING: When I came into the tailoring world, it was -- it was really inaccessible. There wasn't very much women, and the price points were so
high. It's really important to sit down with someone and make them feel relaxed and get on each other's level. It's quite a personal process.
JACKSON (voice-over): Here, luxury comes from the process. Slow, personal, and entirely bespoke.
GLENDENNING: So, how do you like your shoulders to fit?
JACKSON: A little bit bigger, but not too big.
JACKSON (voice-over): And for many of Hattie's designs, the story of fabric leads to one place, Huddersfield, the town where I was born. British cloth
has been made in the Pennine Hills for generations. And it's here that raw wool begins its journey through mills that still rely on time-tested
machinery.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These machines were built in the 1950s.
JACKSON: Wow. And are they still working like new today?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're better than new. Still like apocalypse (ph) mouse.
JACKSON (voice-over): The wool is blended, combed, and spun into a thread strong enough to be woven. A process that's barely changed in more than a
century.
JACKSON: I had no idea of the scale of the operation. Like the thought, the detail, the care. I honestly don't think I'm ever going to wear a woolen
jumper in the same way again.
JACKSON (voice-over): But thread isn't a suit. At W.T. Johnson, finishing is where the fabric earns its luxury. Fabrics go through as many as 25
individual processes to lock in the characteristics of the material for the world's most demanding designers from Savile Row to Hollywood.
PAUL JOHNSON, CO-OWNER, W.T. JOHNSON AND SONS: I would say that almost every luxury brand in apparel that you could care to mention will have some
Huddersfield fabric in its collection and that Huddersfield fabric will have been through here.
JACKSON: Tell me one real wild card where you think that the fabric has ended up.
JOHNSON: We dressed Daniel Craig in all of his James Bond films.
JACKSON: Wow. It's so exciting. Where's Daniel Craig?
JACKSON (voice-over): Back at Hax, Hattie turned centuries of craft into something made for me.
JACKSON: Oh my god, it's looking incredible. Oh wow. I feel like it's perfect. All of these tiny details just feel so special.
GLENDENNING: It makes even more special that this fabric came from your hometown.
JACKSON: Honestly, seeing the whole process and then for it to be in a suit that I'm going to have forever from Huddersfield.
GLENDENNING: I know.
JACKSON: It's honestly one of the most luxurious things that I will ever own.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOSTER: Still to come tonight, Avatar is back and ready to dominate the worldwide box office again. We'll tell you what the man behind the movie
says about his cinematic achievements, when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:50:20]
FOSTER: The third Avatar movie is here. Avatar Fire and Ash debuted at theaters across the globe on Thursday. The first two Avatar films made more
than $2 billion, would you believe, in worldwide box office, and stand as the number one and number three movies of all time. Who knew?
Critics say Fire and Ash isn't quite as good as the first two films, but it's still expected to earn around hundred million dollars in the U.S. and
another $250 million overseas in its opening weekend alone.
Our Jason Carroll got a chance to sit down with the man himself.
JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I did.
FOSTER: James Cameron. I mean, awesome.
CARROLL: Yes. Well, look, let me tell you, Cameron, as you know, Max, he definitely has his critics. I mean, that has already been said. But not
only that, it's a different market now for filmmakers like James Cameron. I mean, you've got competition from streamers. You have the industry where
not as many mover go -- moviegoers are actually going to theaters. So, I spoke with him about that, talked with him about the themes of the movie.
He had a lot to say.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CARROLL: When you were putting together the film, how present did you want that to be? And do you think audiences will pick up on that?
JAMES CAMERON, WRITER AND DIRECTOR: Well, I think they'll pick up on it. I mean, I think it's the risk of the film, right? You know, the goal was to
ground this fantasy that takes place in this world that we built from scratch that's quite dreamlike and phantasmagorical, but to ground it in
real-world problems. Problems that people could relate with anywhere, right?
The thing about science fiction that I love is it transcends who we are right now in the present as somebody in Canada or in the U.S. or in China
or in Europe or whatever. It takes us out of that world, and we can look kind of objectively back at ourselves, right? And relate to it through a
universal of human experience.
CARROLL: You were saying this can be the last one in terms of Avatar. Could this be the last one or could we see another one?
CAMERON: We spend a lot of time and energy at a level of detail that's almost hyperreal to put you into this kind of almost waking dream state,
this kind of lucid dream state. It's expensive. It's not like other filming. It's not like live-action filmmaking. And so, we have to know
people are going to the theater. We have to be able to justify the model.
If I get to do another Avatar film, it'll be because the business model still works. That I can't guarantee as I sit here today. That'll play out
over the next month really.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And we will find another way.
CARROLL: With the world of streaming, how does that make it more challenging for you as a storyteller to get people into those seats, to get
them in for that experience?
CAMERON: People want stories. They're consuming stories in a different way. That's OK. I'll adapt. The theater is a sacred space for me as a -- as a
filmmaker. It's something that I think we all need. It's an art form that I think we've collectively enjoyed for the last 130 years. I think it's never
going to go away. But I think that it could fall below a threshold where the kinds of movies that I like to make and that I like to see and we were
talking about some of them won't be sustainable. They won't be economically viable. And that can happen. We're very close to that right now.
CARROLL: I hope it doesn't.
CAMERON: Yes, I hope so, too.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CARROLL: Well, Max, I have to tell you, I've seen the film. It is a visually compelling film. Some of the familiar themes that we've seen with
the previous Avatars such as the environment, but also this particular avatar going to the theme of race and how these people are dealing with
that. You know, I've actually been talking with James Cameron about these films going back to 2009, going back to the very first Avatar. This time
around, you know, he says that, you know, Avatar could be his last one. I mean, it might very well might be his last one.
But having said that, he still says he has fire in the belly, gas in the tank to still do an Avatar 4 or even an Avatar 5. Much of that's really
going to depend upon the audiences and people like you if folks go out to see it and the industry itself, how much the industry -- how much the
industry ends up changing.
FOSTER: It looks amazing. I can't believe how much you got out of him. I mean, he goes deep, doesn't he?
CARROLL: He does.
FOSTER: Jason, thank you.
Two of Hollywood's biggest stars sit down for the grand finale of "ACTORS ON ACTORS." Amongst the revelations, Leonardo DiCaprio tells Jennifer
Lawrence that he's never rewatched Titanic. The two Oscar winners also discussed their upcoming movie with the director, Martin Scorsese, their
lives as kids on sitcoms and their good and bad habits as actors.
[14:55:08]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JENNIFER LAWRENCE, ACTRESS: I think that creative part of my brain and my - - the political part of my brain are intrinsically linked. Like, I keep finding -- like every time I come up with like a movie or like I'm -- its
more often than not political. I think its because that's how I'm like digesting the world. Are you like that?
LEONARDO DICAPRIO, ACTOR: No.
LAWRENCE: OK
DICAPRIO: No, no. But this -- but this this was an interesting one because he wrote this 15 years ago, and it kind of feels very topical.
LAWRENCE: Yes, totally.
DICAPRIO: And, you know, as we know, we don't look up together. It's very difficult to say something about the world we live in. And it has to have
an element of irony or comedy to it. Otherwise people, they're not allowed in. You know what I mean? It feels like, oh, I'm watching these peoples
vocation and they -- you know, do I relate to them?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: You can stream all the episodes of "ACTORS ON ACTORS" on the CNN app. It really is worth a watch. Thank you for watching us tonight. Stay
with CNN. I'll have "WHAT WE KNOW" coming up next hour.
END
