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Isa Soares Tonight
Kyiv Faces Fourth Winter Under Russian Bombardment; Maria Corina Machado Meets with President Trump at the WH; Venezuela's Rodriguez Gives State of the Nation Speech. President Trump Cites the Killing of Anti- Government Protesters in Iran has Stopped; Venezuelan Opposition Leader Maria Machado Meets President Trump at the White House; Several European Countries Send Troops to Greenland.
Aired January 15, 2026 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00]
ISA SOARES, HOST, ISA SOARES TONIGHT: Hello, and a very warm welcome, I'm Isa Soares. Tonight, we begin this hour at the White House where right now,
U.S. President Donald Trump is juggling two very different and very delicate, by the way, situations on the world stage in Iran.
Mr. Trump says, without offering any details that the killing of anti- government protesters has stopped. But U.S. military action remains a possibility there. And within -- with internet blackout, of course, now
going on to its second week, information on the ground remains scarce.
We'll have more on Iran in just a moment. But first, to what could be a very pivotal day for the future of Venezuela. Opposition leader Maria
Corina Machado, today, is making her case in what might be her best and last hope to eventually lead Venezuela.
She is meeting with President Trump right now at the White House. Two weeks ago, if you remember, the administration made the stunning decision to back
then Vice President Delcy Rodriguez, following Nicolas Maduro's ouster. Machado's once strong support inside administration seemed to crumble after
she won the Nobel Peace Prize last year, an honor, Mr. Trump only -- openly campaigned for.
Well, in an effort to appease the President, Machado even offered her award to him, but the Nobel institute said that was not allowed. Meanwhile, Mr.
Trump spoke by phone with Venezuela's acting president on Wednesday, afterwards calling her a terrific person. He's referring, of course, to
Delcy Rodriguez.
Here's what the White House Press Secretary had to say just in the last hour.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I know the President was looking forward to this meeting, and he is -- was expecting it to be a good
and positive discussion with Miss Machado, who is really a remarkable and brave voice for many of the people of Venezuela.
So, the President looks forward to obviously talking to her about the realities on the ground in the country, and what is taking place. As for
Miss Rodriguez, the President did speak with her directly this week. As you know, he revealed that to all of you yesterday.
And Secretary Rubio and the administration have been in constant communication with Miss Rodriguez and other members of the interim
government in Venezuela. They have been extremely cooperative. They have thus far met all of the demands and requests of the United States and of
the President.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Let's get more on with this. Stefano Pozzebon is in Bogota for us in Colombia. But first, I want to go to our Betsy Klein, is in Washington.
And Betsy, we heard there from the White House Press Secretary describing Maria Corina Machado as remarkable and a brave voice.
And to that, she is indeed. What we didn't hear, and she was asked this a couple of times during that press conference, whether a discussion over
transition to bring Machado as leader of the country, whether that was being discussed, whether that was on the cards. Give us a sense of what
exactly they are discussing behind closed doors right now.
BETSY KLEIN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Right, well, this meeting was expected to begin about an hour and a half ago in the President's
private dining room. And it was -- it was set to be closed press and it remained closed press. So, we at this point do not have a sense of what has
happened behind closed doors in that meeting.
But certainly, for all of those reasons you just laid out, a very high stakes moment and meeting for Maria Corina Machado, the Nobel Prize-winning
Venezuelan opposition leader. And it could really set the stage for the role of Venezuela's opposition in Venezuelan politics going forward.
She is also set to meet with U.S. lawmakers later today. We do expect her to take questions from the press after that meeting, and get a sense of how
all of this went, in her view. Now, of course, the context of this meeting is the January 2nd, 3rd overnight capture of Venezuelan president Nicolas
Maduro and his wife.
And Machado, prior to that capture, had been in very close touch with the Trump administration on a number of issues. She was widely viewed as
someone that they could and probably would lean on in the aftermath of Maduro's leadership.
And in the hours after his capture, our colleague, Samantha Waldenberg asked the President about Machado. He suggested that in his view and the
view of his national security advisors, that she did not have enough support from the Venezuelan people to lead.
[14:05:00]
it was a big surprise for everyone there. White House Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt moments ago reaffirmed that, that is still the President's
opinion, though he would like there to be democratic elections in Venezuela, he has not set a timeline for that.
Now, one detail, as you mentioned, that could be up for discussion is Machado's Nobel Peace Prize from last year. That is something the President
obviously has long wanted, and she had indicated -- she had dedicated it to President Trump and the Venezuelan people.
She had indicated that she would be willing to share it with Trump, the President said that would be a great honor. Of course, it is against the
Nobel committee's rules. It also comes as the President spoke by phone for the first time with Delcy Rodriguez.
She was the Vice President to Maduro, and she's been in very close contact with Secretary of State Marco Rubio. Leavitt said that she has been
extremely cooperative and met all of the demands and requests of the United States and the U.S. President.
SOARES: Yes, and look, it's interesting because President Trump did say that she didn't have the respect or support, yet she garnered, what?
Seventy percent of the vote in the last election. Stay with us, Betsy. Let me bring in Stefano, because you were talking about Delcy Rodriguez.
And Stefano, is he still with us? Stefano, as you and I know, it seems a week or even two is a long time in politics, because as Betsy was saying
only yesterday, we heard President Trump speaking very highly of Delcy Rodriguez, who was until recently, Maduro's VP. I want to play what he
said, and we can talk after this. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I know the number one. We just had a great conversation today, and she's a terrific person. I mean,
she's somebody that we've worked with very well. Marco Rubio is dealing with her, I dealt with her this morning.
We had a call, a long call. We discussed a lot of things, and I think we're getting along very well with Venezuela.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: She's a terrific person. What is your sense, Stefano, from what you've heard today regarding the discussions that Delcy Rodriguez and her
brother, of course, are having with the U.S. administration.
STEFANO POZZEBON, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I think that Delcy Rodriguez has proven that she can speak Trump language, and that language does not have to do
with ideology, does not have to do with the aspirations of freedom and democracy of the Venezuelan people.
Aspirations that, of course, have been certified at the ballot in 2024, with 67 percent of the Venezuelan people voting for the coalition led by
Machado. But the language that Trump speaks is the language of business. And right now, it is simply a fact that the person that can guarantee to
make business deals in Venezuela to U.S. companies is Delcy Rodriguez.
She has been there in the past. She has been the President of the Venezuelan oil company, and she has already agreed to all the demands when
it comes to oil and especially exporting oil from Venezuela into the United States. We know, for example, that the officials from Venezuela and the
officials from the Treasury Department are already busy discussing how the proceeds of the sale of oil will reach Caracas.
How the proceeds of the sale of oil that apparently is being managed by the United States will, one way or another reach Caracas, and that -- those
will be managed by somebody of Delcy Rodriguez's trust. It's clear that the stack -- the cards are stacked against Maria Corina Machado because she
cannot be the one guaranteeing what Trump seeks.
And what Trump seeks right now seems to be stability and the possibility of doing business deals in Venezuela. And Delcy Rodriguez, regardless of her
militancy as a left-wing young revolutionary, regardless of her closeness to Nicolas Maduro himself, she has very quickly pivoted to being the face
of the business friendly elite in Caracas.
Which, by the way, is, although she played a long time ago --
SOARES: Yes --
POZZEBON: Just in 2016, the Rodriguez, at the height of the humanitarian crisis that was taking place in Venezuela back then, in 2016, Rodriguez
handled the donation of $500,000 to Trump's own inaugural committee. Back then, it was Trump's looking forward to beginning his first term as the
U.S. President whereas Rodriguez was the Foreign Minister of Maduro.
Guess what? Regardless of any ideological difference, we're going to give you, Donald Trump, $500,000 because we believe that we can talk the same
language. And I think that right now they're reaping the benefits of that outreach several years ago, and of course, several days ago in the
immediate aftermath --
SOARES: Yes --
POZZEBON: Of Nicolas Maduro's capture --
SOARES: I really do think -- I really do think you hit the nail on the head there. She does speak his language. She speaks an economic language.
The question then will be, when it comes to any sort of political transition, will she be able to speak that language?
[14:10:00]
Of course, given her political -- her militancy, of course, and her allegiance with Chavismo. Let me -- you talked about oil, so, I want to go
to Betsy very quickly because this meeting is coming, Betsy, on the same day that we're hearing the U.S. Coast Guard, the U.S. Marines have seized a
second -- a sixth tanker, pardon me.
Do we know what is being done with this oil? I know that the first sale of Venezuelan oil is taking place as well. Who benefits from this oil -- from
the sale of this oil?
KLEIN: Well, broadly speaking, the Trump administration's objective is for the United States to have possession, and to receive the benefits
financially of the sale of this oil. They have touted that time and time again. We'll have to see what happens with this specific tanker. But
certainly, an interesting thread here to watch President Trump navigate.
SOARES: Very much. Our thanks to Betsy as well as to Stefano. We'll be watching, of course, in the next hour when we hear from President Trump and
Maria Corina Machado. She'll be very interesting indeed, maybe awkward even. Let's watch. Thank you very much, you both.
We'll have much more on Venezuela later this hour in about 20 minutes or so, I'll speak with Chris Sabatini; a Senior Fellow for Latin America at
Chatham House. Do stay with us for that conversation in 20 minutes or so, right here on the show. Well, the people of Iran are living on the edge of
uncertainty.
Will there be U.S. military action, or will U.S. President Donald Trump back down from his threat to Tehran. Today, in Washington, the U.S.
Treasury Secretary announced economic sanctions against Iranian individuals as well as entities. The Trump administration alleges they were responsible
for the crackdown on protesters.
Iran's national security chief is included in the sanctions. On Thursday, an uneasy calm settled in after Iran's Foreign Minister claimed that
executions of protesters are not taking place. President Trump said he was assured of that as well. And in the last hour, the White House Press
Secretary Karoline Leavitt, said the U.S. is keeping close watch on what Tehran does next. This is what she said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEAVITT: The President and his team have communicated to the Iranian regime that the -- if the killing continues, there will be grave
consequences, and the President received a message as he revealed to all of you and the whole world yesterday, that the killing and the executions will
stop.
And the President understands today that 800 executions that were scheduled and supposed to take place yesterday were halted. And so, the President and
his team are closely monitoring this situation, and all options remain on the table for the President.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Well, our Ben Wedeman has the latest from Sulaymaniyah, Iraq, near the border with Iran.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (on camera): It does appear that the tempo of anti-regime protests in Iran has lowered
somewhat. At this point, we're hearing from international human rights organizations that as many as 2,500 people were killed in the course of
those week-long demonstrations.
We did hear from Abbas Araghchi; who is the Iranian Foreign Minister, insisting that the death toll from these weeks of protests is much lower.
This is what he said.
ABBAS ARAGHCHI, FOREIGN MINISTER, IRAN: Exact figure would be announced very soon, perhaps tonight by our authorities --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, you're saying it's less than 1,000 people?
ARAGHCHI: No, hundreds of people. I certainly, you know, deny the numbers and figures they have said. It is an exaggeration. It is a misinformation
campaign only to find excuses to do another aggression against Iran.
WEDEMAN: Nonetheless, we have been in touch with people inside Iran, including one man who said that in a very small town near the border with
Iraq, that families took away 19 bodies of demonstrators killed in those protests from the morgue at the local hospital.
But given that the internet blackout continues, the telecommunications are very impossible, very difficult. With Iran, there's no way of knowing
reality. And of course, international journalists are not allowed in -- allowed into the country as well. Now, overnight Wednesday into Thursday,
it was widely expected that the United States would launch some sort of airstrikes or attack against Iran after, of course, President Trump said
that help is on the way.
It does appear he's changed his tune now, saying that he understands that the killing of protesters has ended, that there will be no execution of
those protesters who have been detained. But essentially, the underlying reasons for these demonstrations are the same. The Iranian economy is in
shambles.
[14:15:00]
The rial, the local currency has lost more than 80 percent of its value. The country is essentially bankrupt, and therefore, there is perhaps a
slowing down of the pace of those demonstrations. But it's only a matter of time before they flare up again. I'm Ben Wedeman, CNN reporting from
northeastern Iraq near the border with Iran.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOARES: Very good reporting there from our Ben Wedeman. Joining me now is Maziar Bahari, he's an Iranian-Canadian journalist, filmmaker, as well as
activist. He founded IranWire; a platform for Iranian citizen journalists. Great to have you on the show, Maziar.
We were listening to the White House press secretary in the last 45 minutes. I'm not sure you heard her. She was saying that 800 executions
that were due to take place in Iran yesterday were halted. We heard similar lines from the United States yesterday from the President saying that --
claiming killings have stopped.
What is your sense, Maziar, first of all, regarding not just the executions, but the protests in general.
MAZIAR BAHARI, FOUNDER, IRANWIRE: So, I talked to three people yesterday, and I talked to one person today in Iran, and everybody is in a state of
shock. They tell me that the real numbers is much more than what's said in the media.
I was talking to someone in a small city of Chalus, and Chalus has about 60,000 residents, and they know for a fact that at least 30 people were
killed in the protests in Chalus alone. And if you multiply that to different cities, you see that at least, 6,000, 7,000 people were killed --
SOARES: I mean, and you heard -- I was just mentioning that before we were hearing Ben Wedeman, what he's hearing when --
BAHARI: Yes --
SOARES: Iranians come across the border in Iraq --
BAHARI: Everybody is shocked because --
SOARES: With the number of people being killed --
BAHARI: Yes, everybody is shocked because I was talking to a young person, and he said that in the other protests in 2022, 2019, they used to use
pellets --
SOARES: Yes --
BAHARI: In order to maim people or blind people. But this time, they're using military equipment in order to kill people. So, the regime wants to
teach young Iranians and Iranians in general a lesson --
SOARES: Yes --
BAHARI: That, you know, you cannot do this anymore, and we are going to deal with you this way.
SOARES: And these protests started organically. It was to do with mostly with the economy. This is a leaderless protest as we have seen. But I
wonder, you know, given your conversations that you're having, whether you feel they are disillusioned in some way by the United States.
Because two days ago, President Trump was calling on them to take to the streets. I think the line was, keep protesting, take over your --
BAHARI: Yes --
SOARES: Institutions, help is on the way. Are Iranians from this conversations you're having -- are Iranians still waiting for that help?
Do they think it's going to come because President Trump is not saying it's over. You know, the options are still on the table --
BAHARI: Yes --
SOARES: Just what is -- what is your sense of this, Maziar?
BAHARI: Well, many people, many people, I mean, Iranians are desperate for some change.
SOARES: Yes.
BAHARI: They are not happy with their government. The government is corrupt. It's inefficient. And basically, it has given up governing the
country. It knows how to survive. It knows how to protect its own interests, but it does not govern the country and provide people with the
basics.
But in terms of what President Trump said, he inspired Iranian people because when they see that the President of the only superpower in the
world supports them, they are encouraged, and they go to the streets. But President Trump's support was intentionally quite vague.
Because I think that the American government does not know what's going to happen if this regime is going to be overthrown. And the Iranian
opposition, they have not done a very good job in terms of providing the American government --
SOARES: Yes --
BAHARI: And other governments for their plans for the day after. When you think about South Africa, when Nelson Mandela was fighting, and he was the
spiritual leader of South African resistance, he had people like Oliver Tambo, Chris Hani, and so many other people who were leading, people who
were negotiating with different governments.
At the moment, Reza Pahlavi, Crown Prince Reza Pahlavi, he's the spiritual leader --
SOARES: Yes --
BAHARI: Of millions of Iranians, and they're chanting his name across the country. But he does not have people like Chris Hani or Oliver Tambo or
Thabo Mbeki in order to be able to communicate with the rest of the world and tell them what's going to happen --
SOARES: So, when President Trump said, you know, he questioned, I think was yesterday whether Pahlavi, whether he would have the support he needed
to govern. Is he right?
BAHARI: I think so, yes. He does not have a political party. Reza Pahlavi has been outside of the country for 47 years. And in this past 47 years, he
has not managed to organize even a group of ten people --
SOARES: Yes --
[14:20:00]
BAHARI: To stay with him for the past two decades or so. Yes, millions of Iranians, they like him. He has the name recognition. People are nostalgic
about his father's reign --
SOARES: Yes --
BAHARI: His grandfather's --
SOARES: Yes --
BAHARI: Reign, but that does not mean that he can lead Iran after the downfall of this regime.
SOARES: The regime -- finally, we're running out of time. The regime has been able to crack down, suppress the protests. But the core issue, the
underlying issue here is economic.
BAHARI: Yes --
SOARES: That is not going to go away, you're right --
BAHARI: That's not going to go away, no.
SOARES: So, how do you see this planning out?
BAHARI: It's going to get worse --
SOARES: Because they mentioned sanctions today. I don't know whether you think that has any sort of bite. I mean, they're going after oil sanctions.
I think China is one of the big buyers of Iranian oil. There's a lack of investment, but that's not going to -- they're not going to be able to do
anything even if you -- if they say they will, they will try and you know, reform in some way. Do you think we'll continue seeing these protests?
BAHARI: The protests will continue. They may be able to contain the protests for a short time, for maybe a few months. But as soon as they
allow people, they will come out. But no change will happen to Iran until two things happen. Until Khamenei dies. The supreme leader of Iran,
Khamenei dies.
And if the United States reach some sort of agreement with China not to buy Iranian oil, because as long as China buys Iranian oil, the regime will
have enough --
SOARES: Yes --
BAHARI: Resources to do whatever it wants to do.
SOARES: And it's buying, I think 89 percent of --
BAHARI: Exactly --
SOARES: Iran's oil, that is a significant --
BAHARI: Illegally --
SOARES: Very similar to what we're seeing to Venezuela. It's very interesting. Maziar, really great to have you on the show --
BAHARI: No offense, yes --
SOARES: Thank you for coming in --
BAHARI: Thanks so much --
SOARES: Thank you --
BAHARI: Thank you.
SOARES: And still to come right here on the show --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: After the lights went out, I had what you might call an acute stress reaction. I was crying here all by myself. My friend called
me. I couldn't stop.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Ukrainians are battling harsh Winter temperatures as Russian strikes leave thousands without any heat or light. We'll share more of what
they told our Clare Sebastian. Also, Venezuela's acting president and last year's Nobel Peace Prize laureate, Maria Corina Machado have very different
visions for their country, and they're both vying for the critical support of Donald Trump, of U.S. President. Much more on Machado's historic visit
to the White House after this break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: Well, three quarters of Americans oppose the U.S. attempting to take control of Greenland. That is the finding of a new CNN poll. It shows
just a quarter support, as you can see there, President Donald Trump's bid to annex the Danish territory.
[14:25:00]
The policy also faces large opposition from within Mr. Trump's own party. Half of Republicans are against it, while 94 percent of Democrats oppose
the idea. The U.S. President has escalated his rhetoric in recent days, writing on social media that anything less than U.S. control of Greenland
is unacceptable.
Well, amid the Trump threats, a number of European countries are sending military personnel to Greenland. Troops from Finland, Norway, Sweden, the
U.K., Netherlands, Germany and France, as you can see there, will take part in joint military exercises with Denmark.
Although, the number of military staff being sent is small, it's seen as a symbolic show of solidarity among NATO allies. And the announcement of the
deployment comes as U.S. Vice President J.D. Vance and Secretary of State Marco Rubio met with Danish and Greenlandic officials in Washington on
Wednesday.
We brought you that press conference. The Danish Foreign Minister described the talks as frank and constructive, but says a fundamental disagreement
remains. Well, an analyst in Greenland says that while there was some relief among residents following that meeting, many remain concerned for
their future.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIRGER POPPEL, SOCIAL SCIENTIST, UNIVERSITY OF GREENLAND: To be honest, as it seems right now, the major threats to security in Greenland comes from
our U.S. allies, which is, of course, not very good, and hopefully, the dialogue that has started now can make that relax.
MADS PETERSEN, BUSINESS OWNER: Having some military presence is going to be a new thing here. I don't hope it is the new normal to say so, because
we would like to be free and walk out with no fears of people going to poke or something. So, it is going to be a -- I think, an ambivalent feeling.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: And in the last 45 minutes or so, when we heard from the White House Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt, she was asked by a journalist
regarding those European countries we just mentioned, the fact they're sending military personnel, Finland, Norway, Sweden, the U.K., the
Netherlands.
Whether that makes any difference in terms of their calculation from President Trump, and she said, no, the President still intends to take
Greenland. So interesting, that hasn't had so far any impact on the President's thinking.
We're going to leave that for a second, because Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy says he will declare a state of emergency for Ukraine's
energy sector amid Russian attacks on energy infrastructure, as well as power supplies.
Repairs to thousands of damaged apartment blocks have been compounded by the extremely cold weather, with night time temperatures dipping close to
minus 20 degrees Celsius. That's about minus 4 Fahrenheit. For Ukrainians, it is a fight to survive without heat and light. Our Clare Sebastian has
more on Kyiv's struggle to keep warm in zab -- in subzero temperatures.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): There's nowhere to hide from the cold in this Kyiv apartment. This is day five without heating for
Kateryna Skurydina, day three without power.
KATERYNA SKURYDINA, KYIV RESIDENT (through translator): It's very difficult mentally, especially since everything that kept you going before
is falling apart. For example, when there is no electricity, sport keeps me going. I go to the gym which runs on battery power. Yesterday, they even
canceled the gym.
SEBASTIAN: She says in a moment of desperation, she ordered everything she could to stave off the dark and cold. Power banks, rechargeable candles,
they make it cozy, she says. A Ukrainian clay pot, hand warmer, even a heated blanket for her cat, ironically named Pushok(ph) or Fluffy(ph).
A still life of survival in Russia's escalating war of attrition. Kyiv has become hardened to attacks on its energy grid, but a huge wave of strikes
late last week, combined with a severe cold snap, took it into uncharted territory.
PETRO PANTELEEV, ACTING FIRST DEPUTY MAYOR OF KYIV (through translator): The decision was made to suspend the heating system in 6,000 buildings.
This is an unprecedented measure in the history of the central heating system.
SEBASTIAN: On the streets, the rumble of Evermore generators, the soundtrack to Ukraine's fourth Winter at war. No one is spared, not even
the repair crews working 24 hours a day to bring power back online. "We do not even know at home whether there is electricity", says Erasmus
Syanka(ph).
As he works to fix a damaged cable. We are all living in this situation. Destruction often outpaces repairs for Ukraine's biggest private energy
company.
(on camera): What happens at DTEK behind the scenes when there's a major attack?
OLEKSIY POVOLOTSKIY, HEAD OF ENERGY INFRASTRUCTURE RECOVERY OFFICE, DTEK: Actually, the attack may take just a few minutes, but to recover after the
attack, you need months or even years. So, we don't have spare time.
SEBASTIAN (voice-over): DTEK power plants have been attacked eight times since October. The company says a recent strike, blowing a hole in the roof
of this one, letting in the snow.
POVOLOTSKIY: This winter, maybe because the Russians, they're not very progressing on the battlefield, they decided to put Ukraine into the
humanitarian crisis.
SEBASTIAN (voice-over): It's a fate Kyiv is racing to avoid. More than 1,300 shelters known as invincibility centers have been set up in the
capital for people to charge devices and get warm. The lamp hasn't charged for some reason, says Tamara Viktorovna (ph), who's in her 70s. Everyone
here learning survival skills.
In another heatless apartment across town, Kateryna Voronina, who's 72, and has trouble walking after hip surgery, is struggling to stay positive.
KATERYNA VORONINA, KYIV RESIDENT (through translator): It's scary, of course. I'm holding on, I'm not complaining at all. But yesterday, after
the lights went out, I had what you might call an acute stress reaction. I was crying here all by myself. My friend called me, I couldn't stop.
SEBASTIAN (voice-over): She says she regularly scrapes off the ice forming on the inside of her window, and waits.
Clare Sebastian, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ISA SOARES, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: An important piece there from our Clare Sebastian and team out of Ukraine. And staying Ukraine and focus, in
fact, on the western city of Lviv, a beautiful city that I've been to in Ukraine. Yet another example of really the unfathomable courage as well as
strength of everyday Ukrainians.
Keep an eye on the bottom right of your screen, that circle there. This footage captures the moment a Russian drone narrowly missed hitting a
worker out of shoveling snow, as you can see her there. She pauses for a moment before then carrying on with her work. I'm going to remove the
banner so you can see it clearly. It is really truly remarkable.
The mayor of Lviv called the woman thanking her for her work, saying her courage has captivated the country, while also adding that perhaps next
time she put her safety first, when she hears those all too familiar air raid sirens. I'm glad that she as well.
Still to come tonight, Venezuelan opposition leader Maria Corina Machado meets with the U.S. president in what could be a make-or-break visit. I'll
speak with an expert on the region about Venezuela's future. Chris Sabatini joins me next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:35:00]
SOARES: Well, with the very future of Venezuela at stake, two leaders are vying for U.S. President Donald Trump's favor. Opposition chief Maria
Corina Machado is meeting with President Trump at the White House right now, as we told you. That's our top story this hour. And she's trying to
win his support and possibly even offering to share her Nobel Peace Prize. Although we've heard from the Nobel Committee that is not allowed. Machado
is also meeting with senators a bit later on Capitol Hill.
Acting President Delcy Rodriguez, you are seeing her right now. These are live pictures. She's about to address the nation. This is Venezuela's State
of the Union, live from Caracas, where it's 3:30 -- just after 3:30 in the afternoon. Delcy Rodriguez, that lady right in the middle, her brother is
to her right, I think, with glasses. She spoke with Mr. Trump by phone on Wednesday. The White House has praised her, saying she has met all of the
demands and requests of the United States and the president, the president even calling her a terrific person.
Rodriguez, meanwhile, is expected to deliver State of the Union address, as you can see as we see these live pictures coming in to us. Do we have any
of that? We can hear a bit of the sound. But she's about to address the nation. We are -- let's listen in if we have any of that.
She is now -- I've actually been -- and that's the main square. This is the National Assembly in Venezuela. I've been on those grounds, inside those
grounds, and we expected to hear from her momentarily. We'll continue to monitor what Delcy Rodriguez has to say. And this really is a split-screen
moment because you have Delcy Rodriguez addressing the nation at the same time that opposition leader Maria Corina Machado, who won by over 70
percent of the vote in Venezuela, is visiting Donald Trump.
Remember, she's been brushed aside by the U.S. president just days after, of course, Maduro was taken from Venezuela. So, quite a moment to see both
men -- both women vying for the president's attention. Let's get more on this, more context. As soon as we hear from Delcy Rodriguez, if we have
translation, if not, I can try and translate, we'll bring that to you.
Chris Sabatini joins me now as a senior fellow of Latin America at Chatham House. Chris, as we look at these images, and we'll talk about Maria Corina
Machado in just a moment, but as we look at these images, it seems that things are going particularly well for Delcy. She's managed to -- she has
the presidency, at least economic, on the economic front, because from what we heard from the president, she's doing everything that he's asking of
her.
CHRISTOPHER SABATINI, SENIOR FELLOW FOR LATIN AMERICAN, CHATHAM HOUSE: That's right, but, of course, the president has placed very limited demands
on her. It's only about opening up the country to oil. It's basically about trying to secure the country and cooperate with the United States. Those
are really minimal thresholds. You know, There's a lot more to be done, including reforming the country to -- by the way, I think to Delcy's left,
that was Diosdado Rodriguez.
SOARES: That was Diosdado, yes.
SABATINI: Cabello rather.
SOARES: Yes.
SABATINI: Who is basically the interior minister, a man who is really reviled by the opposition, who's been deeply embedded in a whole -- or
alleged to be embedded in narcotics trafficking, as well as other illicit activities. There's a $30 million bounty on his head by the U.S. judicial
system. So, that's also a sign that while she may be moving forward in some areas that are key to Donald Trump, she's clearly still in bed with
Diosdado Cabello.
SOARES: Yes, and that -- I mean, that then moves the conversation slightly into what we're likely to see Maria Corina Machado in the White House.
We're likely to hear from them in about 20 minutes or so. If I were Maria Corina Machado, I would want to hear from the U.S. president, from
Secretary Marco Rubio, some sort of timeline to a transition, right? I'm not sure we're anywhere near that.
So, first talk to -- tell us what you think she's likely to get out of this. And two, while Delcy may work very well so far in the economics, when
it comes to democratic transition, like you said, Diosdado Cabello is not going to align with this.
SABATINI: No. So, I think there are a number of things she needs to get out of this. The first is, is to basically overcome Trump's rather clumsy
and offensive remarks on January 3rd when he said she didn't have the respect of the country. And that's patently false. And this is, as you
mentioned, her party won 70 percent of the vote. She is the most respected person in the country. She won the Nobel Peace Prize, much to perhaps
Donald Trump's chagrin. But the truth is, is he really did throw her under the bus at that moment.
[14:40:00]
I think he -- it's incumbent upon him now, especially given her moral stature, to say this is someone we can work with. Maybe it's in the future.
And quite frankly, and I will say this, passing the baton to Delcy Rodriguez after the snatch and grab of Nicolas Maduro made sense. The truth
is, they're basically superimposing Edmundo Gonzalez, who was Maria Corina Machado's standard candidate.
SOARES: Who's in exile in Spain.
SABATINI: Who's been exile in Spain.
SOARES: Yes.
SABATINI: Would -- and Maria Carmen Machado would have been a disaster. Because it is the apparatus -- the repressive, corrupt apparatus that
Nicolas Maduro and his predecessor --
SOARES: And military --
SABATINI: -- Hugo Chavez had created, it's still in place, whether it's police, whether it's paramilitaries, what have you. So, it would have been
messy. So, this was a good interim solution.
The problem now is that Donald Trump is focused on the economics of this. Opening up the oil wells, bringing in oil companies, trying to restore some
sort of order. What hasn't been talked about by Donald Trump, although it has been talked about by Marco Rubio, is a transition plan and the phases
of that transition plan.
So, I think what Maria Corina Machado is going to need to do is, first of all, quite frankly, recover a little bit of the public respect that Donald
Trump should be showing her, quite frankly. But second, also, either subtly or maybe publicly, I don't think she'll come demanding a timeline, but I
think she will get some remarks from Donald Trump, or should. I'm sure Marco Rubio is in the lunch with her right now as we speak. He's her best
ally right now, and he's the one who nominated her for the Nobel Peace Prize.
I think what we need to do is we'll expect some sort of timeline, some sort of expectations of what comes next. He can praise Delcy for what she's
doing now. What comes afterwards? And Donald Trump hasn't been clear about that. Quite frankly, Maria Corina Machado and her constituents, of which
more than 70 percent of the country is in her favor, they're expecting some sort of transition plan.
SOARES: Yes, it would be good to get a sense, as we can look at these live pictures from Caracas, Delcy Rodriguez in her State of the Union, she's
about to address the nation, what that would -- how long would that look like? I mean, what kind of timeline are we looking at?
SABATINI: Well, even phased in. So, let's imagine a series of things. I mean, we can imagine a series of reforms on the security sector, we can
imagine a series of reforms of just even the personnel within the government, perhaps a removal of Diosdado Cabello, some of the more odious
members of this government, and they really are. The release of the 800 or more political prisoners.
SOARES: And some have been released.
SABATINI: Some have, but they're dragging their feet. Yes.
SOARES: Yes, they're definitely dragging their feet.
SABATINI: They promised over 100, they probably now, by most estimates, have released only about 50. That has to happen. But then you need to
create electoral institutions that have free and fair and credible elections. And that means completely overhauling the electoral council and
creating sort of spaces and guarantees of equal access to media, freedom of movement for candidates, freedom from coercion from the military for
voters, but also the candidates. And that's where it's really going to be key.
Now, the rumor is one of the ideas they're thinking about is to go first, and this is good, is to go first for an election of the National Assembly.
SOARES: Which is right there.
SABATINI: Exactly.
SOARES: El, can you bring up the images again from the National Assembly? That's where they are right now.
SABATINI: Yes, and that would be important, because with the National Assembly, if they were to have free and fair elections, because the
opposition won the National Assembly in 2015 --
SOARES: So, the -- apologies to interrupt. So, that is Delcy Rodriguez's brother. He is the head of the National --
SABATINI: He's the president of the National Assembly.
SOARES: He's the president of the National Assembly. So, just to put a context, the gentleman in glasses, he's the president of the National
Assembly, he's Delcy Rodriguez's brother. I do want to go back to the point that you were mentioning, but very quickly, I want to look at these images,
because last time when Delcy Rodriguez took the oath, and I've lost track of time, was a week or two weeks ago --
SABATINI: It feels like years.
SOARES: It does feel like a long time. There were Chinese and Russian representatives in that front line. And that speaks volumes, right?
SABATINI: Yes, exactly.
SOARES: You've removed Maduro, but some of the power play is still in place.
SABATINI: And that was going to be one of basically Trump's conditions, was kick out the Russians, the Chinese and the Iranians as a first step.
Because, you know, this is -- and the Trump corollary to the Monroe doctrine, this would be heavily in violation of the Trump corollary. So,
that's going to be one of Trump's demands on Delcy Rodriguez. The fact that he praised her so fulsomely yesterday may indicate she's made some
progress.
SOARES: But finish your thought before I interrupted you on terms of what you're hearing.
SABATINI: So, the National Assembly, you know, it does make sense. If they can achieve a free and fair election in the National Assembly, the
opposition will clearly win. And that does not require them to share power in the executive with Delcy Rodriguez, which I think they would be loath to
do, and quite frankly, probably wouldn't fare well anyway.
But that would give them the ability to impeach or refill the Supreme Court, which is packed by loyalists of the Maduro government, that now
includes, obviously, Delcy Rodriguez loyalists, reform the CNE, begin to implement a series of reforms of the military and the military hierarchy,
the security services sector, including the intelligence sector, as well as the National Guard. That would begin to lay the framework for reforms that
are more consensus-driven and driven by a democratic body, not from the top down. So, there's a lot to ask.
SOARES: I was going to say. I mean, it sounds great, but you and I have covered Venezuela for a long time, and it feels like we're so far away from
that.
SABATINI: I know.
SOARES: Chris, it really does. We're waiting to see -- I'm sure her brother will introduce the president of the National Assembly, that he will
introduce his sister.
[14:45:00]
But Delcy has walked a very fine line when addressing the country. She's stuck very much to the economics. She hasn't mentioned President Trump, not
in the same ways that he's spoken about her. How -- what do you think we're likely to hear from her when she does her State of the Union?
SABATINI: I think, first of all, you're going to have to hear -- I mean, not have to hear, but she will have -- or feel compelled to denounce
imperialism.
SOARES: And to mention Maduro?
SABATINI: To mention Maduro. Legitimate. Because she's got that base. And --
SOARES: She's got the Chavismo still.
SABATINI: She's got the Chavismo. And she really is a dynamo Chavista. Not of the sort of, like, Diosdado Cabello and the security sort, but, you
know, her father was tortured and killed in prison. He was a Marxist guerrilla, revolutionary. She and her brother are really iconic in the
Chavismo revolution. So, she has to sort of touch that particular touchstone.
But then I think she can talk about trying to instill hope in Venezuelans, according to an Economist poll that was conducted two days ago. Now, it's
not a perfect poll. It was online. But more than 80 percent of Venezuelans support what happened on July -- January 3rd. So, they support the removal
of Nicolas Maduro.
SOARES: Yes.
SABATINI: But only about 60 percent -- but 60 percent expect some form of change in the next six months. So, she has to talk about not just sort of
railing against imperialism and sort of do a few things that are sort of performative about, you know, imperialism and Trump and Maduro, but then I
think she has to shift gears and start talking to instill trust in Venezuelans, because they will quickly lose faith in her government and its
ability to lead to a transition if she doesn't talk about that.
SOARES: Yes.
SABATINI: So, I think she'll start to lay out some plans. Economics is going to be key. This is a country whose economy has collapsed by two-
thirds.
SOARES: Yes.
SABATINI: Massive amounts of -- I mean, over half the population is malnourished or is at risk of malnourished. Massive poverty. She's got to
start to --
SOARES: Huge inflation. Yes.
SABATINI: And huge inflation. They're actually on the brink of hyperinflation right now.
SOARES: Yes, yes.
SABATINI: So, she's got to instill some hope. And that would benefit her, too, politically within the country. If she can start to tell people things
are going to change, maybe not mention the politics of how they change, then maybe Venezuelans would give her a little bit of a longer lead in
terms of what can be done. But we'll see if she talks about any sort of political transition.
Quite frankly, with her brother and with Diosdado Cabello right there at her side, I can't imagine that's going to happen.
SOARES: I mean, flanked. Flanked by that. We are going to take a short break, because we are waiting to hear from Delcy Rodriguez. Chris is going
to stay with me. We'll see you on the other side.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: Let me show you some live images coming to us from Caracas, from inside the National Assembly there in Caracas, from inside the National
Assembly there in Caracas. We are waiting to hear from Delcy Rodriguez. The gentleman speaking right now is Jorge Rodriguez. He is the brother of Delcy
Rodriguez. He's also the president of the National Assembly.
[14:50:00]
She's about to address Venezuela. And it really is a split screen moment because whilst we wait to hear from Delcy Rodriguez, who we know has spoken
to President Trump in the last 24 hours, who the president said -- quoted, she said -- he said that she was a terrific person.
Happening in D.C. meanwhile, on the other side, as you can see those live images, we know, we understand, and this was our lead in the last 50
minutes, the president is meeting with Maria Corina Machado. She's the opposition leader, the woman who won more than 70 percent of the vote in
Venezuela, and the woman who was, of course, a Nobel Peace Prize laureate who promised, of course, to give the Peace Prize to President Trump.
President pushed her aside, if you remember, following the capture of Nicolas Maduro, saying that she didn't have enough to lead the country,
which clearly is not true, given the polling. In the last hour or so, we heard from the White House press secretary, Karoline Leavitt, who said
she's a remarkable and brave voice.
So, really, you are seeing a split screen moment, two women trying to vie for the attention of the U.S. president from very two different sides,
Maria Corina Machado, Democratic leader, Delcy Rodriguez, until recently the vice president of Venezuela, Chavista through and through, the right
hand of Nicolas Maduro.
And the reason I mention this is because, as we hear now from the National Assembly, we are hearing Maduro's son is still there, Nicolas Hito or
Nicolas Junior, he's there. I think her sister, as well, is also there. And, critically, flanking her, as she walked in, was not only her brother,
but Diosdado Cabello, the defense minister, who is seen as one of the henchmen, really, of Nicolas Maduro.
Chris Sabatini is here with me. And just -- we haven't heard from her, but just put this kind of split screen moment right now in context for our
viewers, because it is quite something as both try to get the attention of the U.S. president.
SABATINI: It's not just a split screen for us, the viewers, but also for Delcy Rodriguez, because she's got to satisfy two audiences. On the one
hand, she has to satisfy Donald Trump by not looking too radical, by not attacking him. True, also, Maria Corina Machado, she wouldn't have attacked
him, but she clearly has to please him.
But she -- but basically, Delcy also has to satisfy her own constituency. And, in this case, with Nicolas Maduro's son there, and his daughter there,
she has to basically -- I mean --
SOARES: He's a politician, Nicolas Hito.
SABATINI: Yes, exactly, he is.
SOARES: Right?
SABATINI: Exactly. But, you know, it's their father. So, she's going to have to pay homage to Nicolas Maduro's father. She's going to have to, you
know, probably engage in all the sort of anti-imperialist rhetoric that comes naturally to many of them, while not going too far in a way that
risks offending Donald Trump, or more importantly in this case, Marco Rubio, who was really very skeptical about this whole plan originally.
Now, she's got to sort of contend with two constituencies, and we'll see how she deals with it. She's a very savvy politician.
SOARES: She is. She's very savvy. And we've heard from before, every time she's spoken, she always talks about Maduro, that Maduro needs to be
returned, playing to the Chavistas, right?
SABATINI: Yes.
SOARES: Sticking very much to that line. What you're hearing now is basically introductions. Introductions by every single person. So, we --
I'm not -- we're not going to translate this. So, we're here for a while, as we heard. But, give us then the other side, in Washington, as we look
now to Washington, D.C., what would be a win for Maria Corina Machado today?
SABATINI: I think basically some recognition that she is also a legitimate leader of Venezuela. We haven't gotten that.
SOARES: No, no.
SABATINI: We've already heard she doesn't have the respect, she doesn't have the support. I think right now if Donald Trump comes out and says,
this is a woman I can work with too, because he said that yesterday, and he said it repeatedly about Delcy Rodriguez is a person we can work with, it's
going well. If he can sort of give the same endorsement to Maria Corina Machado without any caveats, I actually think that's a win. Because it
demonstrates that he has faith that there's a time when, you know, there has to be a transition at some point, presumably. I mean, her constituents,
even Marco Rubio, will be demanding this.
SOARES: Yes.
SABATINI: If he can show some sign of a, if you will, sort of a people blessing --
SOARES: And he has spoken of a transition, some sort of plan of transition, Marco Rubio. Yes.
SABATINI: Yes, exactly. He's actually been quite specific about it, more than Donald Trump has been. If she can secure some sort of endorsement from
Donald Trump, I think that's a win. And even better, if she can say that Donald Trump can commit to some form of transition towards democracy, which
he hasn't spoken of since January 3rd, I think that's a huge win right there. We'll see if it gets clouded in his coveting the Nobel Peace Prize
as well.
SOARES: Indeed.
SABATINI: But I think within -- if you get those two things, I think it's a win for her.
[14:55:00]
SOARES: We've got about less than 19 seconds or so on the show. Very quickly, six tanker was taken, I think, by the U.S. Marines today. Oil very
much crucial to the United States. Do we have a sense -- do you have a sense of whether that oil is making its way to Venezuela and who then gets
that money?
SABATINI: So, we're unclear. The money -- some of the money has been transferred. It's going to be held in escrow in a U.S. bank. This is sort
of avoid corruption and sort of -- basically sort of fueling the sort of the patronage of the current government and reward of its political allies.
But supposedly, the money's been parked there over the first tranche. How it will get to Venezuela, we don't know how that will be allocated and for
what. But it's moving actually relatively quickly.
Now, what we're seeing is sort of the seizure of pirate oil. There's a lot more under the ground. Chevron and others will start pumping a lot more
quickly, we hope. But quite frankly, I'm surprised how swift they've been in seizing that oil, turning it over to ports and now preparing to resell
it and getting some of the revenue from it already.
SOARES: Chris, really appreciate you staying with us. You are watching live images coming to us from the National Assembly there in Caracas, the
president of the National Assembly. There he is, Jorge Rodriguez. He is basically naming every single member of parliament. He's going to take his
time. But we keep an ear out for when she starts speaking.
Thank you very much for your company. Do stay right here. "What We Know" in the Lynda Kinkade is up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:00:00]
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