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Isa Soares Tonight
Trump Says U.S. Has "Never Gotten Anything" from NATO; Trump's NATO Comments Threaten World Order; Romania's FM Slams Trump; Vance Speaks in Minneapolis. Zelenskyy Delivers a Stark Warning to Europe, Says Europe Can No Longer Rely on the U.S. for Security; Trump Unveils Board of Peace. Aired 2:00-3p ET
Aired January 22, 2026 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00]
ISA SOARES, HOST, ISA SOARES TONIGHT: A very warm welcome to the show, everyone, I'm Isa Soares. Tonight, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy
delivers a stark warning at Davos, saying Europe can no longer rely on the U.S. for security. We'll bring you more on that.
Plus, U.S. President Trump unveils his Board of Peace for Gaza, calling the enclave a beautiful piece of real estate.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I saw army and they were attacking us. Also shotgun, I saw heavy guns.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Then, we'll bring you a CNN investigation into one of the Iranian regime's bloodiest crackdowns. But first, tonight, from Greenland to Gaza
to Ukraine. We begin with what has been a head-spinning week at the World Economic Forum in Davos.
Europe is breathing a collective sigh of relief after U.S. President Donald Trump backed off threats to use military force to acquire Greenland and
back down from imposing new tariffs on some of America's closest allies. But an emergency EU meeting in Brussels is underway right now, as many
leaders warn their already fragile Trans-Atlantic alliance is fracturing even further.
President Trump today, meanwhile, unveiled his Board of Peace aimed at Gaza's reconstruction so far. That board doesn't include any Palestinians,
and it's receiving scant support from U.S. allies in Europe. And the Trump administration is touting its latest push to end the war between Russia and
Ukraine.
But U.S. officials are offering few details on how a deal may be brokered. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy says the U.S., Russia and Ukraine
will hold trilateral talks in United Arab Emirates, that's beginning on Friday tomorrow.
He described today's meeting with President Trump in Davos as positive, but later called out what he said is inaction on the part of European leaders
regarding the war in Ukraine. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, PRESIDENT, UKRAINE: Today, Europe relies only on the belief that if danger comes, NATO will act. But no one has really seen the
alliance in action. If Putin decides to take Lithuania or strike Poland, who will respond? Who will respond?
Right now, NATO exists, thanks to belief, believe that the United States will act, that it will not stand aside and will help. But what if it
doesn't?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: That is indeed the question. Our chief international security correspondent, Nick Paton Walsh joins me now. And, Nick, I mean, I was just
going through some of the big discussions that we've been hearing this week. You know, and I'm sure leaders like us are slightly discombobulated.
Everything from Greenland, from the threats, to Ukraine, to the structure that we've seen in terms of changing world order. Let me start, first of
all, with what we heard from President Zelenskyy, truly scathing speech from him. The question now is, where are we on any sort of deal?
We know the meetings, a trilateral meeting. Do we have any sense from what we're hearing from the Americans, what we're hearing from Ukrainians or the
Russians, or where we are right now on potentially for a deal?
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, like much of the week. We don't actually have any concrete signs of progress or
matter from all the noise --
SOARES: Yes --
WALSH: That we've been hearing. Now, we don't even know if the first trilateral meeting between the United States, Russia and Ukraine that
Zelenskyy announced is something that Moscow has signed on to. This may be him quite deftly, flagging out something that President Trump suggested
late last year, and seeing if Moscow will go along with it.
So, that's still in the balance. And it would be, I think, a procedural sign of progress in the peace talks, because we haven't had the three
publicly known together at that kind of negotiated level before. Where are we for the deal? Well, we know that Steve Witkoff is headed to Moscow.
We know that President Zelenskyy has described the documents as almost ready. That may be his interpretation of what he's ready to agree to, not
what the Russians --
SOARES: Yes --
WALSH: Are ready to agree to. And Witkoff has said there's one key issue outstanding. Now, that sounds comforting and like peace is close. But the
one key issue I understand from a European official is territory.
[14:05:00]
SOARES: Still it's always been the issue, right? The main issue --
WALSH: Which is what a land invasion is about, which is what Vladimir Putin wants to get from Ukraine without a fight --
SOARES: Yes --
WALSH: In the Donbas region, and there's a red line for Volodymyr Zelenskyy. So, peace does feel quite far off. And I think what we saw from
Zelenskyy, today, and from the signals we heard from Trump and from Zelenskyy about how the meeting was positive, very little detail, although
Zelenskyy did hint that perhaps air defense had been discussed at some point.
Was a bid to ensure that this process seems to still have life in it. It's moving forwards. Is it going to hit a brick wall in Moscow tonight when
Witkoff says, here's the latest version of the deal and Putin says, no thanks, we'll have to wait and see --
SOARES: Yes --
WALSH: And I think Kyiv have tried to get ahead of that by proposing two days of talks in the Emirates that Russia doesn't publicly, at this point,
appear to have signed on to.
SOARES: Your take on what we heard from President Zelenskyy, because this speech came just after he met with President Trump. It was scathing. It's
slightly more scathing and blistering than what we've seen before from him. But interestingly, he said Europe still remains in Greenland mode, he said.
Maybe someday, someone will do something. Take a step back for our viewers. How damaging have Trump's attacks, threats have been on Europe and indeed
on the NATO alliance?
WALSH: Look, I mean, ultimately, we've seen a number of days in which President Trump's bluster and claim that he might use military force, and
then the retraction of that, and then sudden deal with NATO Secretary- General Mark Rutte has kind of exposed the hollow nature of a lot of his threats.
But many European officials had no choice, but to respond to this as though it could potentially have been real. And so, the distraction from the real
critical issues of Ukraine, the sense that this is yet another moment in which the United States, under this administration alone, has proven itself
to be completely unpredictable and not trustworthy, has left many Europeans deeply concerned.
I think some of them are just going to play the clock out on this ultimately. I don't think --
SOARES: It's a long clock to get.
WALSH: The midterms aren't that far off --
SOARES: Yes --
WALSH: After that, you could have a hobbled White House, potentially more looking towards the next election rather than sort of global adventurism.
But it certainly is damaging because it does say that deals made with this administration may not last.
It does also say that the things President Trump threatens you with simply may never happen. And it also shows a quite unpredictable, irrational, at
times almost manic.
SOARES: Yes --
WALSH: I mean, President Trump spent as much time talking about windmills as he did about Ukraine and Canada. So, I think it's important to imagine
that Zelenskyy was addressing an audience there of European officials already experiencing whiplash --
SOARES: Yes --
WALSH: Vertigo, discombobulating from the whole Greenland experience. And he said, well, you kind of put yourself in this position because you're not
defining your own narrative. You know the old world order is threatened, but you're not willing to actually do things to define the new one.
You just want to talk. And he said, you know, Europe is very good at talking about the future, but not very good about doing things for now.
Harsh words, certainly. I think potentially, Zelenskyy casting himself as the scold of Europe in the same way that Trump is.
These are not too distant points away from what we hear from the White House. But remarkable to really hear that broad scope of European official
in front of him derided as being feckless.
SOARES: And the strongest allies, of course, in the harshest of times. Nick, appreciate it, thank you very much indeed. We're going to leave
Ukraine for just a moment and focus on Greenland, the thorny issue that has caused an unprecedented rift in the U.S. relationship with western Europe.
At this hour, as I was saying earlier, European leaders are holding an emergency meeting in Brussels to discuss how to handle President Trump's
desire to grab the Danish territory. The U.S. President says there is a framework of a deal for Greenland, though exactly what that deal would be
is like Nick was saying, there's just not much detail, is unclear.
Danish and Greenlandic officials insist they will not hand sovereignty of the territory over to the U.S., but everyone seems relieved that the harsh
rhetoric of recent days seems to have eased a bit.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAJA KALLAS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE EUROPEAN COMMISSION: Right now, everybody is relieved that right now, the tension regarding Greenland is
down. But I think one thing that we have learned over the last year is that we have to be prepared for the next day. That might be a completely other
topic.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Well, as you would expect, we are covering all this from multiple angles. CNN's Clare Sebastian is at the site of the EU Summit in Brussels,
and Nic Robertson is in Greenland. Nic, let me go to you, first in Nuuk.
We heard the Prime Minister of Greenland today, and I think you were the first one to ask a question, saying that he's ready, they're ready to
negotiate a better partnership, but sovereignty is a red line. It does seem that nothing has really moved from where we were, what, last week? What
next then?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, I think the thing that perhaps we can say is different from last week is that there is no
threat of military action against Greenland by the United States, at least, President Trump has said that.
[14:10:00]
And the Prime Minister today said that he -- when he was asked that question, do you believe -- do you trust the President of the United States
on that? He said, well, look, I do, I have to. This is what's being said. I have -- I do have to say when you talk to people out on the streets,
they're a bit more skeptical.
They use language that the Prime Minister wouldn't use. He was being very diplomatic when he was giving this press conference. But people outside on
the street said, look, we really don't trust President Trump. We feel a little bit relieved that this issue of a possible military action has gone
away.
But -- or appears to have gone away. But we don't know if the President is going to change his mind in a short space of time. The other thing that the
Prime Minister spoke about was, as you said, that willingness to continue to have talks, high level talks, he talked about, but also to have a higher
level of NATO presence here to help secure the Arctic.
The possibility of permanent NATO bases. He said that was certainly something that was opened at the moment. But when I asked him the question,
does President Trump get anything additional out of this deal over and above the 1951 existing agreement between Ukraine, Denmark over Greenland?
I mean, he really didn't give us a straightforward answer to that. But what he is very clear on is that red line of sovereignty, even if he doesn't
have details about the deal. This is how he framed it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JENS-FREDERIK NIELSEN, PRIME MINISTER, GREENLAND: Nobody else than Greenland and the Kingdom of Denmark have the mandate to make deals or
agreements about Greenland and the Kingdom of Denmark without us. That's not going to happen.
In terms of the deal, there has been talking about -- I don't know what concrete in that deal either, but I know that we have now a high level
working group working on a solution for both parties. We have said from the -- from the beginning in Greenland, we have some red lines.
We cannot cross the red lines. We have to respect our territorial integrity. We have to respect international law sovereignty. We are ready
to cooperate more in economics and in other areas, but that's something we have to talk about in mutual respect.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTSON: And he said that he did believe that President Trump had been told very clearly about those red lines. He was -- he felt reassured by
that, reassured by the support coming from NATO partners, but recognizing that what's happening in Greenland is also part of something bigger.
For this Prime Minister, you know, 34 years old, he's been in office less than a year, suddenly thrust into the sort of geopolitical crisis,
geopolitical spotlight. He was being incredibly cautious with his language. He was asked a very direct question, can the United States put its missile
launchers for its -- what President Trump calls its Golden Dome defense shield.
Remember in Greenland, is between Russia and the United States. Can the United States put those missiles there? And he didn't give twice. He was
asked that question, he didn't give a direct answer on it. He just referred to the fact we have these high level discussions. We can do it with
respect, have those discussions as long as the sovereignty is respected.
SOARES: Nic, stay with us. Let me go to Clare. So, Clare, just picking up where Nic was saying, you know, the imminent danger of U.S. intervention in
Greenland and the threat of sanctions Nic was saying, seems to have gone away for now. But, you know, after a week that we have seen of so many
threats.
I wonder the question that European leaders may be asking themselves right there in Brussels is, can Europe trust the U.S. President? Kaja Kallas just
was saying just about an hour or so ago, saying the U.S. and EU relationship has taken a big blow. What are you hearing?
CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I think there's two key questions right, Isa? Is can they trust the U.S.? And can they afford not to? And I
think we're seeing some sort of real desperate voices from leaders coming into this summit, obviously, another sort of tangential question is, will
this be a force for more unity, and therefore more decisive action in Europe?
And I think that's just not clear yet, because on the one hand, you have the countries with real skin in the game when it comes to European
security. The likes of the Baltic countries and Poland, who seem to be more attached to the idea of preserving the last vestiges, perhaps, of the
Trans-Atlantic alliance. Take a listen to the Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk, as he just arrived in Brussels.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TUSK, PRIME MINISTER, POLAND: Europe should be here, absolutely united to protect the relations with our partners on the other side of the
Atlantic, even if it is today, much more difficult than ever before.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SEBASTIAN: Well, obviously, an illusion there to how difficult these past few days have been. That's something that we've heard from other leaders
coming in. Lithuania's President, by the way, also significant skin in the game on Russia's border, saying that the U.S. is still Lithuania's closest
friend.
[14:15:00]
But then, on the other hand, we heard from Emmanuel Macron coming in. He has had some pretty strident rhetoric towards the U.S. over the past week,
saying we remain extremely vigilant, he said, and ready to use the instruments that are at our disposal should we find ourselves the targets
of threats.
Again, so, really trying to re-assert Europe's red lines, and certainly, we heard very similar language from Kaja Kallas, who said that the Trans-
Atlantic relationship has taken a big blow, that, of course, she doesn't have national political considerations to take into account.
So, look, will this be a force for greater unity in Europe? Will this be a line in the sand under a year of flattery of Trump, of trying to placate
the White House, will we now see a more muscular Europe emerge from this episode where they, you know, take greater control over their own security?
Perhaps also diversify trade partners, really assert themselves on the global stage a little more. I think those are some of the big questions
being asked. But ultimately, what we were told going into this emergency meeting by a senior EU official is that, this is about confronting a new
reality, and really trying to chart a path forward here.
SOARES: Clare Sebastian, Nic, thank you very much indeed for us there in Greenland and Brussels, where there are a lot of developing stories you've
seen in the last 15 minutes coming out of Davos in about 20 minutes right here on the show. We'll get some perspective on them from the Romanian
Foreign Minister, including state of NATO, Ukraine peace talks, and of course, Greenland.
Do stay with us for that discussion in about 20 minutes or so. Well, President Trump launched his Gaza border piece today in Davos with a
signing ceremony attended by fewer than 20 countries. The board is central to the second stage of the Gaza ceasefire plan, and its creation was
endorsed by the U.N.
But the latest list of invitees and tensions with U.S. President have put off many European countries. France says it's not joining, neither is U.K.,
citing concerns about an invite extended to Russia. Beyond Davos, Gaza remains a bleak, war-torn landscape and the fighting really hasn't stopped.
An Israeli air strike on Wednesday killed three people. But where many see a humanitarian crisis, Mr. Trump sees a real estate opportunity.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You see, I'm a real estate person at heart, and it's all about location. And I said, look at this
location on the sea. Look at this beautiful piece of property, what it could be for so many people. It will be so great.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Well, Israel is set to join the Board of Peace along with several majority Muslim countries from the Middle East as well as Asia. But the
Palestinian Authority isn't represented. Our Oren Liebermann joins me now from Jerusalem. Oren, good to see you.
So, according to these master plans, there's an airport, a port, tech and manufacturing hub, tourism, I mean, it looks very glitzy when you look at
the map and on paper. But the reality is what?
OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN JERUSALEM BUREAU CHIEF: Very far different. You can make a presentation, a PowerPoint Presentation, as Jared Kushner did. It
looked like anything, and he tried to make it look like a successful -- what you might consider a successful gulf state.
And yet, you look on the ground at what's happened at Gaza. You have many tons of rubble that have yet to be cleaned up or cleared. You have people
living in tents. You have aid that's going in, but not getting all the way to where it needs to be. Meanwhile, you have Gaza split between a bit more
than half that's occupied by Israel, the rest under Hamas' control.
So, it is this that the U.S., the White House, President Donald Trump, Steve Witkoff, Jared Kushner are trying to turn into the 20-point peace
plan. Key to this, as you point out, they view this as essentially a commercial deal, at least, to some extent. And they say they need
investment.
But to get to that investment, they acknowledge they need disarmament, and that's what they say they will focus on now. The disarmament of Hamas, the
demilitarization of Gaza. Crucially, what was missing in today's presentations and discussions was A, how that's going to happen.
And B, any mention of the International Stabilization Force that's supposed to go into Gaza and make that happen to allow for the Israeli withdrawal.
So, although, these were nice presentations about the vision the U.S. has, turning that into reality remains an incredibly difficult prospect.
And the presentation, the slides, the glitz that they showed today is very far away from what's happening on the ground in Gaza on a daily basis.
SOARES: Yes, very few details it seems, not just on this story, but in pretty much everything we've heard from this administration in Davos. Where
do the Palestinian people who are living, as we've been saying, you know, and we've been showing viewers in the most appalling conditions, right?
Fierce -- you know, fierce rain, bitter cold. Where do they fit in all of this?
LIEBERMANN: In fact, some of the coldest nights we've had this Winter over the past couple of weeks here, frankly, sitting and waiting, at least, from
the plan that Kushner put forward, the reconstruction effort would start in a part of Gaza occupied by Israel that he called new Rafah, which is
supposed to have more than a 100,000 permanent homes.
Except, he says, that will take 2 to 3 years to build, even if there are a few people in each of those homes, you still have nearly 2 million Gazans
waiting for some kind of permanent shelter.
[14:20:00]
This is a multi-year, multi-billion dollar process that although there's a Palestinian technocratic committee that's in charge of it, that sits
between the Board of Peace and what's happening on the ground in Gaza, whether they have the ability to put this into effect is something that's
still very unclear here.
SOARES: Oren Liebermann for us this hour in Jerusalem. Good to see, Oren, thank you very much indeed. Well, J.D. Vance is in Minneapolis as tensions
soar over the immigration crackdown. Details on the new ICE memo that's stirring controversy. We'll bring you that.
Plus, the moment Iran went dark from an internet blackout, we hear from the protesters who witnessed the violent crackdown investigation coming up
next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: Welcome back. U.S. Vice President J.D. Vance is in Minneapolis, where he hopes to calm tensions in the city over the Trump administration's
immigration crackdown. Vance is meeting with immigration enforcement agents at this hour. His visit comes amid news of an internal memo authorizing ICE
officers to enter people's homes without a judge's warrant.
Democratic Senator Richard Blumenthal is now calling for Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem and ICE chief Todd Lyons to testify before Congress
about what he calls a secret policy to ignore the Fourth Amendment of the U.S. constitution.
Josh Campbell joins me now with the very latest. And Josh, we'll talk about that memo in just -- in just a second. But we are expecting to hear and to
see a Vice President Vance. Look, this is a city as you've been showing viewers as we've been showing viewers almost every night, a city on edge.
What are we likely to hear from the VP, given that he's one of ICE's most vocal defenders?
JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: We expect a continued, full- throated defense of what these agents are doing. He's meeting now with a group of immigration agents, and as he mentioned, we will hear from him
speaking here momentarily.
But this is really, you know, caused a lot of the friction that we've seen there, because we know that every time we've seen an immigration officer do
something as part of Trump's surge in this country, even if it's a controversial use of force, the administration comes out very quickly and
essentially backs the agents.
Even in the case recently where an ICE agent shot and killed a woman, the administration came out and said, no, it was actually her fault. The ICE
agent was doing everything he was supposed to do. And so, that is not only unusual because we typically don't see politicians, including the Justice
Department weighing in on cases in their infancy.
[14:25:00]
But we're also hearing from community members as well who say this essentially, gives these agents a free pass to do whatever they want.
Because if passed as prologue, you know, any time there is use of force, they know that they have the backing of the administration. So, that's one
important aspect that we continue to see some of this tension.
SOARES: And talking about free pass, talk to us about this internal memo that we were just mentioning there briefly, that was leaked by a
whistleblower that shows that ICE is basically now telling its agents they can forcibly enter people's homes without a judge's warrant. What more can
you tell us specifically about this?
CAMPBELL: This is quite stunning because they are asserting sweeping powers that many are criticizing and saying they don't actually have the
power to do here in the United States under the constitution, if agents want to go and actually enter private property, they have to go to a judge,
an independent magistrate who looks at the set of facts, looks at the reason why agents want to go into a property, and either signs off on it or
rejects it outright.
Here, what we're learning from the "Associated Press" is that the ICE agents are -- ICE is essentially telling its agents in certain
circumstances, you can use what's called an administrative order, which doesn't require a judge to sign to actually go into property and arrest
someone.
And we hear a lot of people crying foul about that. Interesting. Also, we're learning that this wasn't a policy that was widely disseminated
across ICE in a written format, kind of bizarrely, agents are being verbally told this, that they can go and do this type of action without a
judges warrant.
So, you have to wonder, does that raise a question or if they're essentially trying to ensure there is no paper trail here? But I have to
say, I was a former federal agent myself, that puts a lot of liability on those agents if they're being told something, and they don't have the
written guidance to back it up.
We'll have to wait and see, you know, where that goes. Is worth pointing out the Trump administration tells CNN, that this is not a green light for
agents to just randomly go and kicking down doors, but certainly very controversial.
SOARES: Right, but they're not denying it.
CAMPBELL: Yes, correct.
SOARES: Right, Josh, appreciate it. When we hear from the VP, we'll definitely take and we'll get your -- we'll get your take on that --
CAMPBELL: You bet, thanks --
SOARES: Off the back of it. Thanks very much. Josh Campbell there for us. And still to come tonight, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy had some
choice words for European allies in Davos today. I'll speak with Romania's Foreign Minister about comments and the status of peace talks. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: What we have gotten out of NATO is nothing. Except to protect Europe from the Soviet Union and now Russia. I mean,
we've helped them for so many years. We've never gotten anything.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ISA SOARES, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: That's U.S. President Donald Trump falsely claiming that the U.S. has never benefited from NATO. The Alliance,
of course, came to defense of the United States following the 9/11 attacks. The deepening cracks in the once rock-solid transatlantic bond are now on
full display or have been on full display in Davos this week. U.S. allies say quite simply, Donald Trump's comments threaten to append the world
order.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FRIEDRICH MERZ, GERMAN CHANCELLOR: The comment piece up here on the Magic Mountain in Davos is that stark contrast to world whose old order is
unraveling at breathtaking pace.
CHARLES MICHEL, FORMER EUROPEAN COUNCIL PRESIDENT: Let's be clear. The transatlantic relationship as we used to know it for decades is dead in
something new. New will be rebuilt.
MARK CARNEY, CANADIAN PRIME MINISTER: We are in the midst of a rupture, not a transition. You cannot live within the lie of mutual benefit through
integration when integration becomes the source of your subordination.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Terrific speech from Mark Carney. Romania's foreign minister also slamming President Trump's comments, reminding him that Romania answered
the call after 9/11. In an online post you wrote in part, President Trump asked us now at Davos if Europe would answer the call of us in times of
need. History, answered that question already.
And the Romanian foreign minister, Oana Toiu, joins me now from Davos. Foreign Minister, welcome to the show. A lot for us to discuss this
evening. If I may, I would like to start with Ukraine, because what we've heard today, and you surely would've heard it in the corridors there of
Davos was a very exasperated and angry President Zelenskyy, who clearly is tired of making the same speech time and time again. He was talking about
Groundhog Day and directing his wrath at Europe. Does he have a point, Foreign Minister?
OANA TOIU, ROMANIAN FOREIGN MINISTER: I have met with President Zelenskyy team and the team for the ministry of foreign affairs many times, because
we are the country -- with the longest NATO border to the conflict. And I understand his feelings. The European leaders are now convened the European
Council tonight as well in Brussels.
This being said, though, I think there are also some positive elements to the conversation in Davos and through the developments of these days, and
President Zelenskyy has also been thankful to the messages that President Donald Trump has given.
And truth being told, and I say this as a bordering country and as a European country, there's a large consensus among that Ukrainians are the
first one to lead the battle. They have done an amazing courageous thing throughout the four years, that they're going to be four years now on the
24th of February. We have helped from the European Union and many partners around the globe.
But we know when we sit at the same table that without the United States this work cannot end. Without the United States and the support that the
United States provide it might not have been lasted so much in terms of the resilience of the Ukrainians in the world.
SOARES: Yes. I'm glad you brought that up because, you know, something that he said, Foreign Minister, that stood out to me, he said that Europe -
- and one of the points he was making that Europe's true reliance on the us and then he added, I'm going to quote him, "Europe still remains in
Greenland mode. Maybe some days someone will do something," he said. Are you offended at all by these words? Because some say he -- you know, he's
one of the -- criticizing one of the strongest allies and supporters in the war against Putin. And if so, what is the strategy from Europe going
forward?
TOIU: Well, we are going to continue organizing in terms of financial support. We're going to continue organizing inside of NATO. And for
Romania, it has been especially important that NATO was mentioned through the speech. I have seen the taglines from a negative angle, I have to say,
for a country that relies so much on our security, not just on our own defense, but on NATO partnership and the strategic partnership with the
United States, that it has been a great news that President Donald Trump on stage has clarified that he sees no risks to the NATO alliance going
further.
[14:35:00]
SOARES: OK. There's a lot that we've heard and you've brought up NATO, so let's focus on that. I mean, as you know, President Zelenskyy's words kind
of came at the same time we saw European leaders, right, discombobulated I think is the word that many are describing it by the events we've seen in
the past two weeks. Trump's threats, attacks, tariffs.
What have you learned? What has Europe learned, Foreign Minister, from its relationship with President Trump as we see, of course, this change in the
world order?
TOIU: We have had conversations among leaders this morning and it is quite clear for us that we see a shift that is not temporary. The conversations
we had led to the conclusion that a new way of collaborating, a new way of organizing needs to be built, that nostalgia is no strategy, and that we
cannot just rely on the hope that the way we have built this partnership or have collaborated in the past is going to be the future.
This being said, I think there's also good news that the business environment has celebrated in terms of President Donald Trump not
continuing with the proposals for the tariffs imposed on some of the European countries. For us at the European level it was quite clear that we
needed to address this together collectively because we have a single market and we are aware of the fact that each of one of us separately has a
lower negotiation power.
But also, because I've had many conversations with the business environment here in Davos as well, American investors, I think beyond the temporary
moment in our relationship the fact that we have more than 1.5 trillion in commercial exchanges, more than 5 trillion in investments across the
transatlantic relationship is going to be the element that's going to continue to keep this relationship very strong.
I am not among those European leaders that consider that we need to shift away from the United States or that there is a future that can be
prosperous and that can guarantee security in which the transatlantic relationship is not absolutely key.
SOARES: Foreign Minister, I appreciate you being with us. I'm going to take -- cut our interview slightly shorter because the vice president, J.
D. Vance, is speaking right now. Thank you very much, Foreign Minister. Let's take you to Minneapolis.
J. D. VANCE, U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: Step one or step two of that process, there's going to be a lot of work that follows through from here. I'm happy
to talk about that but I think I learned a few things that were very important.
So, number one, one of the things I learned is that the guys behind me are doing an incredible job and frankly a lot of the media is lying about the
job that they do every single day. Now, it doesn't mean that there aren't occasionally stories out there, there aren't occasionally videos out there
that suggest that these guys or at least some of the people who work for them are not doing everything right but very often if you look at the
context of what's going on, you understand that these people are under an incredible amount of duress, an incredible amount of chaos and because of a
few very far-left agitators, a lot of these guys are unable to do their jobs without being harassed, without being doxed and sometimes without
being insulted. That's totally unacceptable.
And that's one of the things that I want to send a message to is yes, come out and protest, protest me, protest our immigration policy but do it
peacefully. If you assault a law enforcement officer, the Trump administration and the Department of Justice is going to prosecute you to
the fullest extent of the law and I wanted to show some support for these guys who frankly are operating in a very, very tough environment. I heard a
lot of stories today about that, that I think drives home just how chaotic the environment on the ground here has already gotten.
For example, did you know that within the last I think week or so, maybe even more recently than that, you had a couple of ICE officers who were off
duty, who had been doxed online, who were sitting and having a meal at a restaurant in Minneapolis when a bunch of agitators showed up, locked the
door, made them feel like they were in danger for their lives and then of course it was federal law enforcement officers who had to come up, lower
the temperature on the situation and actually get those two off-duty officers to a point of safety.
Now, imagine if you would, your life and your perspective on law enforcement, if you can't even go to a restaurant without some agitators
locking the door and making you feel like your life is in danger. That is the environment that has been created I think by a lot of very frankly far-
left people but also by some of the state and local law officials who could do a much better job in cooperating and working. And by the way, I'm not
talking about the cops who these guys told me on the ground the cops are very sympathetic to what they're dealing with.
I'm talking about state and local elected law enforcement officials who could do a lot better job in making their lives a little bit easier and in
the process, they would make the lives of all Minneapolis residents easier and that's what we want. We want to be able to enforce the immigration laws
on the one hand, while on the other hand we want to make sure that people in Minneapolis are able to go about their day. And I want to say just one
last one last point on this.
[14:40:00]
So, I heard from a business leader today who told me a very tough story and I think so much of what's gone wrong in Minneapolis is people not trying to
understand the perspective of somebody else. Try to understand what somebody else is experiencing, whether they're a law enforcement officer or
anybody in the community here in Minneapolis.
So, they told me a story about this manufacturing facility where an illegal immigrant was being arrested and as these employees are going into the
manufacturing facility, all of a sudden, an illegal immigrant shows up, they don't know it's an illegal immigrant, and then a bunch of ICE officers
descend. Now, these people just want to go to work, they want to go to work safely, and now all of a sudden there's a major law enforcement operation
happening right outside their place of business.
Now, from one perspective, I certainly understand why a business leader or why an employee would say, well, what's going on? It's a little scary no
matter your position in life if a bunch of cop cars show up and they're arresting somebody.
Now, the additional context is that we know that people online have been encouraging illegal immigrants that one way they can evade arrest is by
showing up at a legitimate place of business, making it impossible for these guys to actually enforce our immigration laws. So, while I can
understand the perspective of somebody who doesn't want to see an arrest happen at their place of work, I can also understand the perspective of our
immigration enforcement officers who have to do their job and can't allow a heckler's veto over our immigration enforcement. And so, much of what's
gone wrong is the failure to do that.
And here's the point. We can do a good job of enforcing our immigration laws without the chaos, but it actually requires the cooperation of state
and local officials. If you look at blue cities and blue states, red cities and red states, you go to Austin, Texas or Memphis, Tennessee, you go to
the State of Texas, obviously a very red state or the State of Tennessee, a very red state, but you've got blue cities within those states you do not
have this level of chaos. The reason why things have gotten so out of hand is because of failure of cooperation between the state and local
authorities and what these guys are trying to do.
We have a ton of resources, a ton of ICE agents in this city right now that I would rather us not have. I'd love to send those guy's home. They're not
even doing targeted immigration enforcement. They are trying to protect ICE officers who are doing immigration enforcement because when a crowd
surrounds them and these guys call 911, the local officials, the local cops have been told to stand down.
So, we have people here who aren't even doing immigration enforcement. They're doing force protection so that if a rioter tries to ruin the life
or assault an ICE officer, they're actually protected.
Now, why doesn't it make more sense for the local cops to get involved in that situation? Why not just have the mayor or the local officials tell the
police officers, you know what? If an ICE officer is being assaulted by a far-left agitator, you are invited. You should actually help them. That's
what would work out in any normal situation. And that's what happens in nearly every jurisdiction, red or blue in the United States of America.
The reason it hasn't happened here is because the local authorities have been told stand down, do not help ICE, promote violence, promote the
agitation, but don't do anything to lower the temperature and lower the chaos. That's a problem.
Here's another example of how the lack of cooperation between state and local officials makes it harder for us to do our job and turns up the
temperature. Let's say for example, we have a criminal migrant who is a sex offender and let's say that we've got to go and arrest that person who,
Democrat or Republican, wants a sex offender living in their community. I would assume, I would hope that most people don't, but because they're an
illegal alien, we don't know their last address.
We may have known their address three years ago, but we don't know their address now. What we'd like to do is talk to local officials and say, you
know what? According to the Medicaid rolls, where was the last person, this person, or where was the last address this person was domiciled, or
according to a SNAP application, a food stamps application, maybe that could give us insight to where this person is today, or maybe they had some
local court trouble. We could go to the local courthouse or even the local jail and try to find where this criminal sex offender is today.
The local authorities have been told, do not cooperate. So, these guys are trying to go out and enforce the law. They're trying to arrest sex
offenders, but they're trying to do it in an environment where local officials have been told, do not help them. Do not provide intelligence
about where these sex offenders might be. This is disgraceful.
And there are a lot of things that all of us could do better to lower the temperature. But the number one thing that I learned today is that the best
way to facilitate reasonable enforcement of the law, but also to lower the chaos in Minneapolis would be for state and local officials to cooperate.
Now, I will say, on one final positive note, I actually think that there's some hope, some reason to think that there's going to be better cooperation
in the weeks and months to come.
[14:45:00]
I think that because I've talked to some of the local officials here. I think there are reasons to believe that these people are going to step up
and actually ask the cops to protect our officers when they're being assaulted, who are going to ask the local courts to cooperate with getting
criminal sex offenders out of our community. That's a good thing. That's the good news.
And that's something I'm going to work on when I get back to Washington. But please, if you're a local official, if you're the mayor of this town,
if you have any influence over those people, just tell them to cooperate. Because we could have immigration enforcement operate as smoothly and
without the chaos that we see in Austin, Texas, or Memphis, Tennessee, or even rural parts of the state of Minnesota.
All we need is a little cooperation. I guarantee we're going to do the best to be professional, to respect people's rights, to not do anything that we
don't have to do in order to enforce immigration laws. But it would make our lives a lot easier. It would make our officers a lot safer. And it
would make Minneapolis much less chaotic if we had a little bit of cooperation from the state and local officials.
With that, I'll shut up and take some questions. Thank you, guys.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Vice President Vance, a local school district here is alleging ICE agents detaining a five-year-old after preschool on Tuesday.
We've also seen (INAUDIBLE) by ICE and harassed by over the last six weeks. Are you proud of your administration is conducting this immigration
crackdown here in Minnesota?
VANCE: Well, I'm proud of the fact that we're standing behind law enforcement. And I'm proud of the fact that we're enforcing the country's
laws. But you know, you asked a question about this five-year-old kid. I actually saw this terrible story while I was coming to Minneapolis. We had
just left Toledo, Ohio this morning for an economic messaging event. And I see this story, and I'm a father of a five-year-old, actually, a five-year-
old little boy. And I think to myself, oh, my God, this is terrible. How did we arrest a five-year-old?
Well, I did a little bit more follow-up research. And what I find is that the five-year-old was not arrested, that his dad was an illegal alien, and
then when they went to arrest his illegal alien father, the father ran. So, the story is that ICE detained a five-year-old. Well, what are they
supposed to do? Are they supposed to let a five-year-old child freeze to death? Are they not supposed to arrest an illegal alien in the United
States of America?
If the argument is that you can't arrest people who have violated our laws because they have children, then every single parent is going to be
completely given immunity from ever being the subject of law enforcement. That doesn't make any sense. No one thinks that makes any sense.
Now, you know, there are so many of these cases like that where if you just understand the context, there have been a number of situations that I've
looked into personally where I say, wait a second, we don't want ICE arresting American citizens. They're supposed to be enforcing the
immigration laws against illegal aliens. So, then I look into it and I find out that the American citizen who was arrested took a swing at an ICE
officer. You can't have that happen. And of course, they have to defend themselves. And of course, they have the right to detain somebody who
assaults a law enforcement officer.
Now, this is my point. Do we want these things to happen? Do we want these arrests to be so chaotic? No, we don't. These guys want it least of all.
But if we had a little cooperation from local and federal -- excuse me, from local and state officials, I think the chaos would go way down in this
community.
Go ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: After the Renee Good shooting, sir, the administration seemed to suggest --
VANCE: Yes. Well, you can go next.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm sorry.
VANCE: No, it's fine. You -- I'll take both.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: After the Renee Good shooting, sir, the administration seemed -- after the Renee Good shooting, the administration seemed to
suggest that ICE officers enjoyed near complete immunity. But today you told the Washington Examiner that when appropriate the administration might
take disciplinary actions against ICE agents. So, is that a change of opinion? And if so, why (INAUDIBLE) you tell him?
VANCE: No, I didn't say, and I don't think any other official within the Trump administration said that officers who engage in wrongdoing would
enjoy immunity. That's absurd. What I did say is that when federal law enforcement officers violate the law, that is typically something that
federal officials would look into. We don't want these guys to have kangaroo courts. We want them to actually have real due process, real
investigation, because again, sometimes they're accused of wrongdoing. And it turns out when you learn the context, they didn't actually do anything
wrong.
But of course, we're going to investigate these things. Of course, we're investigating the Renee Good shooting, but we're investigating them in a
way that respects people's rights and that ensures that if somebody did something wrong, yes, they're going to face disciplinary action, but we're
not going to judge them in the court of public opinion. I've spoken at length on this particular case.
I think that Renee Good's death is a tragedy. I also think that she rammed an ICE officer with her car. So, the tragedy here is multilayered. The
tragedy is there was a misunderstanding. The tragedy is that Renee Good lost her life. The tragedy is that you have ICE officers who are going into
communities where they're worried that if they call 911, no one's going to come to help them. That is what produces this terrible situation, and it's
something state and local officials here in Minnesota could solve. Yes, sir.
[14:50:00]
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Could you give us a message towards March for Life tomorrow, especially regarding this cooperation and family values? It's a
shame the kids have to get caught up in all this and, you know, towards that term.
VANCE: Well, you know, it is a shame that kids have to get caught up in this. I am speaking at March for Life tomorrow. I'm pro-life and I'm very
excited to speak there. I want to talk about local law enforcement. But, you know, I mean, look, I am, as a child, I saw people in my family get
arrested. It's terrible. It's heartbreaking. It's chaotic. It's traumatic. It's traumatic for the kids. I can recognize that, and I can recognize that
we've got to support these kids while, on the other hand, saying that just because you're a parent doesn't mean that you get complete immunity from
law enforcement. And I think we have to hold both of those thoughts in our head at the same time.
We've got to be sympathetic to the kids who are caught up in some of these enforcement actions. We've also got to say we have to enforce the law
without bias, with fairness, but we've got to enforce the law.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Speaking about local government, there was a clash in St. Cloud likely a week ago, and their mayor said they haven't heard about
ICE being in the city. And how does ICE kind of proactively work with these local agencies? What are those policies and what's your response to that?
VANCE: You said there was an altercation in St. Cloud? Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: After the incident, the mayor said that ICE did not communicate with them that they were in the city for a major operation. The
police chief did not know about the operation at the time. Could you talk a little bit about proactive communication with local law enforcement?
VANCE: Yes, it's actually -- it's one of the takeaways. I've talked with these guys before we came on the stage, but during our roundtable and some
of the other conversations we've had, communication, we absolutely want to ensure there's good communication between federal officials and state and
local officials. And I'm sure that we can do better on that. We absolutely want to make sure that we are communicating, but that also requires a two-
way street. And that's the point that I make about state and local officials.
These guys will absolutely communicate with state and local officials. They'll tell people if they have to do an enforcement operation in a
particular municipality. But part of that is they also want to ensure that if they're communicating about their whereabouts, that's not being used as
a weapon against them. Sometimes they tell people where they're going, and then they find out that their agent's faces are on Reddit or on some social
media thread saying, here's this guy. We know he's going to be at this place at this exact time. So, that communication has got to be a two-way
street.
These guys are going to communicate with business leaders, with local officials, with state officials, but we also need the local officials and
state officials to do a good job of protecting people when they're in their communities. We're not asking, by the way, we don't want any police officer
in this community, in this state to help us do immigration enforcement. We've got that.
But if a protester shows up and that protester turns violent against our immigration officers, we really, really need the cooperation of our local
partners. We haven't gotten it yet, but I think if we do, we really can lower the temperature. Yes?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A colleague at the Washington Post reported today that an ICE memo allows agents to enter people's houses without a judge's
warrant. What do you say to people who say -- who are concerned about this violating the Constitution, and how much is this tactic being used?
VANCE: Yes. So, I saw that story, and the story is like so much that I read in the mainstream media. It's missing a whole lot of context, and we
appreciate the context. It makes sense. No one is saying -- I mean, look, there are exceptions. For example, a crazy exception, if somebody is fired
at from inside a house, they don't need a warrant to go inside that person's house. There are very narrow exceptions to the warrant requirement
where law enforcement officers don't need a warrant if, for example, they're an imminent threat of their lives.
But what we've said and what ICE has proposed, what the Department of Homeland Security really has proposed in the Department of Justice, is that
we can get administrative warrants to enforce administrative immigration law. Now, it's possible, I guess, that the courts will say no, and of
course, if the courts say no, we would follow that law, but nobody is talking about doing immigration enforcement without a warrant. We're
talking about different types of warrants that exist in our system.
Typically, what happens, not always, but typically in the immigration system, those are handled by administrative law judges. So, we're talking
about getting warrants from those administrative law judges. And then, of course, with other cases you get judges -- or you get warrants from a
judge, that's very consistent with the practice of American law. I'm sure the courts will weigh in on that, but we're never going to enter somebody's
house without some kind of a warrant, unless, of course, somebody's firing on an officer or they have to do something in order to protect themselves.
Go ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: To follow up on that, do you believe that you can forcibly enter with an administrative warrant, or would that be a violation
of the Fourth Amendment?
VANCE: Well, our understanding is that you can enforce the immigration laws of the country under an administrative order if you have an
administrative warrant. That's what we think. That's our understanding of the law. That's our best faith attempt to understand the law.
[14:55:00]
Again, this is something courts will weigh in on. I won't speak to that, but yes, most immigration law in our country is not done through the
criminal system with a judge. It's done through the administrative law system. We're going to continue that practice, just as they did in the
Biden administration or any other administration.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Was there anything that you heard or saw today that would cause you to counsel the president to invoke the Insurrection Act?
And then also, did you meet or talk to the ICE agent who was involved in the Renee Good incident?
VANCE: I did not talk to him today. I talked to some of his colleagues. You know, your question on the Insurrection Act is interesting. I've tried
to understand this as well as I possibly could. And my understanding is that what the Insurrection Act, what invoking the Insurrection Act would
allow the federal government to do, is that it would allow the federal government to use the military for local law enforcement operations.
Right now, we don't think that we need that. Now, the president could change his mind. Of course, things could get worse. But right now, we think
that federal law enforcement officers can do the job of federal law enforcement.
Now, what I do worry about, again, is if the chaos gets worse, if more and more ICE agents start getting assaulted, if other law enforcement officers
start getting assaulted, that would be a real problem. But again, we have so much federal law enforcement resources here right now. We have so many
people here that we do not want to have here. I do not want so many ICE officers in Minneapolis right now. I mean, good Lord, it's really, really
freaking cold outside. But they're here, not even to enforce immigration laws, but to protect the people from the rioters, that's an absurd state of
affairs, and we wouldn't need it if we had a little bit more cooperation from the Minneapolis Police Department.
Again, the Minneapolis Police Department, my understanding is that the actual beat cops on the ground, they would love to help out, but they're
being told by somebody. I don't know if it's Mayor Frey. They're being told by somebody not to cooperate at all. What kind of a person tells their
local police, don't protect somebody if they're being assaulted by a rioter? It's crazy, and it's got to stop. Yes?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Earlier this week, local law enforcement accused federal agents of racial profiling. Why are there so many U.S. citizens
being caught up in this operation?
VANCE: Well, I think your question assumes something that's not necessarily in evidence, which is that when there are American citizens who
have been caught up in some of these enforcement operations, very often it is people who have assaulted a law enforcement officer. They're not being
arrested because they violated the immigration laws. They're being arrested because they punched a federal law enforcement officer. That is a totally
reasonable thing.
Now, to the accusation of racial profiling, you know, look, it's something that we take very seriously. We will take accusations of racial profiling
back to Washington. We'll certainly look into them as they come up, but this is not a group that's going around and looking for people who violated
the law based on skin color. They're looking for people who violated the actual law, the law of our immigration system in this country, and so long
as we had more cooperation, I think they could do these things in a much more targeted way. They would actually know where some of the bad guys are.
I mean, again, you hear things that are hard to believe, but I've confirmed that they're true. Sex offenders, sex offenders who were trying to get off
the streets, who the local officials won't tell us their last known address. So, then the local officials say, oh, my God, these guys are doing
widespread targeted enforcement operations when in reality we would love to just go to one house. The local officials won't tell us which one house to
go to.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. Vice President, to that question, the local police chiefs have said their own off-duty officers, so police officers are
being targeted because they are a person of color and asked to show their papers. Is that a concern of the administration and the Department of
Homeland Security if local law enforcement says their own officers are being targeted and they described it as quote civil rights violations in
our streets?
VANCE: So, I saw one story about this and one local police officer who said this and look, certainly is it a concern? Absolutely. The first thing
we have to figure out is whether it happened or not. And then if it happened, whether there is a good explanation or a bad explanation. And of
course, if somebody violated the law, if somebody racially profiled, if somebody violated the rights of one of our fellow citizens, that is
something we will take very seriously.
What I also would say is that many of the most viral stories of the past couple of weeks have turned out to be at best partially true. So, we want
to try people based on reality, based on the truth, based on context. We're not going to prejudge people just because of viral social media story that
turned out to be half-false.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Vice President, a quick question about the roundtable you just had. I presume that happened. Did you invite anybody
with an opposing point of view to get an idea of why people are upset here? And just as a quick follow-up. Have you reached out to Governor Walz at all
in an attempt to turn down the temperature?
VANCE: So, I haven't talked to Governor Walz on this particular trip. A number of members of our administration, I believe our chief of staff,
spoke to the governor and has been in constant contact with his staff over the past week. We've been, in my office, in constant contact with people
here on the ground in Minneapolis. There were certainly people at our roundtable with opposing views and --
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