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Isa Soares Tonight
Trump Again Criticizes Pope Leo on Social Media; Lawyer: Marwan Barghouti Subjected to "Violent Assaults" in Jail; U.N.: 14M People Displaced in Sudan. President Trump Strikes an Optimistic Tone as He Suggests Talks with Iran Could Resume in a Few Days; Israel's Security Cabinet Weighs a Possible Truce with Lebanon; President Trump Takes Another Swipe at Pope Leo on Social Media. Aired 2:00-3p ET
Aired April 15, 2026 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00]
ISA SOARES, HOST, ISA SOARES TONIGHT: A very warm welcome to the show, everyone, I'm Isa Soares. Tonight, U.S. President Donald Trump strikes an
optimistic tone as he suggests talks with Iran could resume in the next few days.
We'll go live to the White House and to Islamabad, Pakistan, for the very latest. Then Israel's security cabinet weighs a possible truce with
Lebanon. We'll hear from a Lebanese lawmaker this hour. And the U.S. President takes another swipe at Pope Leo on social media.
I'll speak to a former Italian Prime Minister, Matteo Renzi, that and much more just ahead. But first, tonight, we begin with signs of optimism for
fresh round of talks between the United States and Iran. While there are no firm plans in place for new direct negotiations, the lines of communication
appear to be open.
Iranian state media reports a key Pakistani negotiator is in Tehran carrying a message from the United States. Iran has also confirmed it is in
contact with U.S. officials through a Pakistani intermediary. U.S. President Donald Trump told "Fox News" that the war with Iran is very close
to over, a claim he's made a number of times over the past few weeks, if you remember.
He called Iran's reaction to the ongoing U.S. blockade in the Strait of Hormuz pretty amazing. Here's what White House Press Secretary Karoline
Leavitt had to say just moments ago. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: We remain very much engaged in these negotiations, in these talks. You heard from the Vice President
directly and the President this week, that these conversations are productive and ongoing.
And that's where we are right now. I've also seen some reporting about the potentiality for in-person discussions again. Those discussions are being
had, but nothing is official until you hear it from us here at the White House.
But we feel good about the prospects of a deal. The President mentioned that in his interview yesterday, and it's obviously in the best interest of
Iran to meet the President's demands. I think he's made his redlines in these negotiations very clear to the other side. And so, we are continuing
to see how these conversations go.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Meantime, marine traffic data shows two vessels passed through the Strait stopping at the same point. One of them was a Chinese-owned tanker,
which made a U-turn and then traveled into the Gulf of Oman.
And Iranian reports -- Iranian media reports, I should say, that four vessels transited waters near Iran today, and we'll have much more on the
growing global economic impact of the blockades with our Richard Quest in the next, what? Two, three minutes or so. Stay around for that.
Well, our Nic Robertson is tracking the latest in a possible new round of talks from Islamabad, CNN's Kevin Liptak is at the White House. Kevin, let
me go to you first, because we have heard, of course, in the last few moments from the White House, Karoline Leavitt there, because we continue
to hear these conflicting messages from the President, right?
Signaling at one point, there is momentum, there was very close to over, while at the same time, we're seeing troops are making -- more troops are
making their way to the region. So, just bring us up to date where we are right now on these negotiations.
KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: You're right that the signals continue to be mixed when you're listening to the President
himself. You know, he has said many times over the last couple of weeks that the war is nearing its end.
But even in the same interview today, he's saying that the U.S. could still strike Iranian bridges, other civilian sites. So, when you hear him sort of
talk about that in the same breath, it's not entirely clear where he's headed.
But at least, listening to Karoline Leavitt, she certainly sounds very optimistic that the negotiators will be back in Islamabad sometime soon,
getting a deal over the finish line. You know, the President just yesterday suggested that those talks could occur over the next two days.
Now, it's a 16-hour flight from Washington to Islamabad. And to our knowledge, no one has left yet. So, it doesn't seem as if the talks will be
happening tomorrow, but potentially the day after that over the weekend. That seems to be where the administration is headed.
So, a lot of optimism, but not a lot of clarity about what has changed since J.D. Vance went to Islamabad several days ago, sat behind closed
doors for 21 hours, and came out to announce that no deal was in the offing.
We don't know where Iran may have moved in a way that satisfies the President in terms of those red line demands, in particular, when it comes
to its nuclear ambitions.
[14:05:00]
You know, the President has stated explicitly that he doesn't think Iran should be able to enrich uranium. We've heard discussion of these various
moratoriums of different lengths. The U.S. proposed 20 years, Iran coming back with five years.
The President, in an interview yesterday, said that he wasn't even comfortable with the 20-year pause in uranium enrichment. So, where that
stands, we don't know. We also don't know at this point what will become of Iran's stockpile of highly enriched uranium.
But it does seem clear that in order for someone from the United States to fly all the way back to Pakistan, there will have to be some movement on
that front, and we just don't know where that is right now. U.S. officials aren't saying, the Iranians aren't saying.
One thing that was interesting in what Karoline Leavitt said today was that they only view at this moment, the Pakistanis as the mediators in this.
Because you have heard other countries, whether it's the Egyptians or the Turks, exchanging messaging -- messages, volunteering to help mediate this
conflict.
But at least, according to the White House, right now, it is only Pakistan that is, in their view, the real mediator in all of this, and that, if
talks are to resume, they will be resuming again in Islamabad.
SOARES: Yes, and that leads me perfectly. Thank you, Kevin, stay with us. To Islamabad, where we find our Nic Robertson. And we have seen Nic,
Pakistani mediators really working overtime, right? To get both sides to the negotiating table. What are you hearing from your sources on where we
are right now?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, there's something of a diplomatic overdrive going on here at the moment. The top mediator, if
you will, on the Pakistan side, Field Marshal Asim Munir, flew with his Interior Minister today to Tehran, a pretty big step in terms of the sort
of diplomatic level that Pakistan is going to try to persuade Iran to meet some of those U.S. positions.
You know, as Kevin was just saying, when J.D. Vance left here early Sunday morning, he said the United States has given Iran its best and final offer,
very much the ball seeming to be in Iran's court to make the next move.
The behind-the-scenes diplomacy. And we know there have been phone calls, Pakistan has been reaching out to interlocutors inside of -- inside of
Iran. But when the Field Marshal and the Interior Minister fly into Tehran to have these talks face-to-face, that really gives the sense that there is
some momentum and some actuality to what President Trump is envisaging, that there could be talks soon.
Of course, it's dependent on Iran shifting its position, and very likely shifting its position on what the terms of commitment that the United
States is looking for, for it not to enrich uranium to make a nuclear weapon. And is that to the -- you know, what we heard from the Vice
President's office that the United States should have access to that highly enriched uranium.
That they should have access to the -- to the centrifuges that these sites should be destroyed or deconstructed, and that Iran should really give that
hard commitment. Iran's position is, they will want money. They want financial reparation for war damage.
They want sanctions lifted. They want -- they want assets unfrozen and a permanent ceasefire. So, where the bargaining is on that really, as Kevin
says, isn't clear. But the momentum to get there and the hope and that --
SOARES: Yes --
ROBERTSON: Aspiration, that really feels very real and tangible.
SOARES: Nic Robertson for us there in Islamabad, and Kevin Liptak, if he's still with us from the White House, yes, he is, thanks to you both. Let's
have more now, as we promised we would on the standoff in the Strait of Hormuz, which threatens, of course, to major -- to cause major disruptions
in the global supply chain.
It's worth pointing out that American blockade only covers ships from Iranian ports, not the entire waterway. And I'm going to show you oil
markets how they stand. Pretty, fairly steady as you can see. Brent crude there, 94, up what? Seventeen -- 17 percent or so, still below that $100 a
barrel mark.
And if we look at how U.S. stocks are doing today, well, quite a mixed picture. Let's go though, important to go beyond the numbers. Our Richard
Quest is joining me now. Richard --
RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSINESS EDITOR-AT-LARGE: Right --
SOARES: I'm going to be honest with you. I'm a bit confused about where we are. When is a blockade not a blockade? Because U.S. CENTCOM was saying it
only affects those ships, those vessels coming from Iranian ports. Could you just --
QUEST: Yes --
SOARES: Outline what exactly --
QUEST: Right --
SOARES: We're talking about?
QUEST: Right. First of all, where are the blockading ships? Well, we assume that they are somewhere down here. We assume that this is the area
where the U.S. has put its ships. In other words, to prevent any shipping. Now, you just rightly said that it's only designed to stop Iranian ships.
[14:10:00]
The only problem with that is ships from, say, Saudi, UAE or -- nobody wants to do that as long as Iran might be anyway. So, you really got two
blockades in a sense. You've got the worry coming across --
SOARES: Yes --
QUEST: And you've got, of course, the U.S. This is really whose blockade is most blockading. And at the moment, it seems -- I mean, I know you can't
make this up, could you? You really couldn't. At the moment, it seems that the U.S. is doing a fairly -- I don't know -- it seems to be decent job in
terms of stopping things. But there are now reports of some ships getting through.
SOARES: Right, so, with those ships getting through, is that including this one? Rich --
QUEST: Yes --
SOARES: Starry, right? I think that's --
QUEST: Or was --
SOARES: After sanctioned --
QUEST: But watch what happened to this particular ship.
SOARES: Does a U-turn it seems --
QUEST: It does a U-turn, and then it sort of heads back up again. And there are -- but we are getting reports not confirmed --
SOARES: Yes --
QUEST: That up to five ships might have somehow managed -- let's do a different color.
SOARES: Is that --
QUEST: Might have managed to get out in some shape or form.
SOARES: Do we know -- why do we know? Is it --
QUEST: No --
SOARES: Because they reached some sort of agreement?
QUEST: Oh, no, no, we don't know --
SOARES: No clarity --
QUEST: No --
SOARES: On that --
QUEST: But remember what the blockade is designed to do. The blockade is designed to stop Iran --
SOARES: Yes --
QUEST: From being able to charge a toll to any ships. It's designed to prevent Iran from using whatever it's got to actually get any form of
revenue from this to completely and utterly, if you will, bring it to a close.
SOARES: So, if we go back to the Strait of Hormuz, how exactly -- do we know how U.S. Naval ships intercepting are stopping this?
QUEST: No --
SOARES: Do we have any of that?
QUEST: Well, first of all, let's not --
SOARES: I mean, is the technology --
QUEST: Right --
SOARES: Right.
QUEST: But let's not get ourselves too far ahead, because you've got to first of all assume you're only talking about those ships that are willing
to run the risk --
SOARES: Yes --
QUEST: Of the Iranian firing exactly over the Strait itself. As for what's happening down here, part of it is just simple threat alone.
SOARES: Right --
QUEST: If you are any form of western vessel, you're not going to run it. If you are in any danger, you're not going to run it. But no, we don't
actually know what the main reason or the main mechanism by which they're doing it. We assume -- go back to the first one I'll show you --
SOARES: Yes --
QUEST: We assume that it is here where they're actually --
SOARES: Right --
QUEST: Doing the business. And look at all these ports, by the way --
SOARES: Yes --
QUEST: The most -- the most significant one, of course, Kharg Island. That's where --
SOARES: The Kharg Island, yes --
QUEST: It gets it there. But all of these ports are now basically not available --
SOARES: So, the situation really hasn't shifted at all. If anything, it's more congested, is it not?
QUEST: It's deepened. It's deepened. The situation has deepened and become more complicated as we look at the various traffic going around. You've got
the question, first of all --
SOARES: And this is how busy --
QUEST: Yes --
SOARES: Just to give our viewers a sense. This is --
QUEST: There I run the Iranian risk --
SOARES: Yes --
QUEST: If I do run the Iranian risk, which nobody is doing, by the way, unless arguably, the Chinese vessels --
SOARES: Yes --
QUEST: That have been given free passage or they paid the Iranians, otherwise, you're straight out. And I think you're seeing to a certain
extent, this reflected in the numbers. Absolutely. I think perhaps maybe a better example is that.
We're bouncing around, and over the last five days, arrange. And as long as nothing really changes, that's the range. This is the price --
SOARES: Is this -- is this optimism hoping on negotiations --
QUEST: Yes --
SOARES: With Iran?
QUEST: Yes.
SOARES: OK --
QUEST: I was talking to an oil trader today. The movement is on headlines, and it could disappear except --
SOARES: And President --
QUEST: I can't do that --
SOARES: President Trump -- I'll do it for you.
QUEST: Yes, thank you --
SOARES: President Trump knows that --
QUEST: Right, and that's the range. That is --
SOARES: Given --
QUEST: The range.
SOARES: I mean, this -- if this continues because --
QUEST: Yes --
SOARES: We're potentially a second round of talks, who knows? As Nic was saying there in Islamabad. You -- I know you've spoken to the IMF who had
some dire predictions. Just put this into context for global economies. Recession.
QUEST: Yes --
SOARES: Should just continue that for you, recession, as he's writing here.
QUEST: Recession.
SOARES: Is that what he said? Was -- is that what you heard? I was a bit worried.
QUEST: Global --
SOARES: I was worried about what you were going to say right there --
QUEST: Global recession. That is the worry because we're only growing -- I mean, I won't write if I can't spell it. Stagflation.
SOARES: Right, yes --
QUEST: I'm not sure, you probably -- you could do that --
SOARES: I could do it, I don't have it, but yes.
QUEST: Yes. Stagflation is the key concern now. You've got slowing growth --
SOARES: Yes --
QUEST: And you've got rising inflation --
SOARES: Rising inflation --
QUEST: The answer for that is higher interest rates.
SOARES: Yes --
QUEST: Interestingly, by the way, Scott Bessent has been quoted -- the U.S. Treasury Secretary as saying, he does not believe that there should be
cuts in U.S. interest rates, the exact opposite of Donald Trump, because he's obviously an economist himself. He's a -- he's a Wall Street man.
He knows that the upward pressure on inflation is there because of this. What we have to hope is that this doesn't get out, that this stays in this
area. And even if it stays in this area, we're in deep trouble because, by the way, for instance, European aviation, European airports might be about
to run out of aviation fuel in the next 2 or 3-4 weeks.
SOARES: Very dire. We know who is keeping a close eye on this and the stock markets. Donald Trump, he loves the headline too, Nic, Richard,
appreciate it. Thank you very much.
[14:15:00]
Richard will be back, of course, with "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS". Well, CNN is told the Israeli security cabinet is discussing a possible ceasefire with
Lebanon today. This is just one day, of course, if you remember, after those direct talks in Washington.
Despite that meeting, Israel and Hezbollah have continued to exchange fire just over the last 24 hours. Israel's military says it bombed more than 200
Hezbollah sites in southern Lebanon. The Lebanese Health Ministry says more than 2,100 people in Lebanon have been killed since the start of this
conflict.
Well, before the show, I spoke with Gebran Bassil; a member of Lebanon's parliament and former Lebanese Foreign Minister. I asked about the
ceasefire efforts with Israel, given that Hezbollah calls the talks futile.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEBRAN BASSIL, MEMBER OF LEBANESE PARLIAMENT: You know, the government would have to really have a balanced position between the reality on the
ground and our wishes to reach peace. So -- and this will have to take into account also the desire of the Israeli government to reach a just solution,
because a just solution would require to -- for Israel to have its right and its security on one hand.
But on the other hand, for Lebanon to restore all its rights and the -- liberating the occupied territories by the Israeli Defense Forces and
halting the aggressions by Israel. And on letting -- allowing the return of the Lebanese displaced people to go back to their homeland.
So, this is a necessity. And then we would have to discuss how to establish the basis for a durable and lasting peace.
SOARES: We keep hearing that the Lebanese government has very limited leverage over Hezbollah. At the same time, as we have seen for the last few
months, we have seen the Israeli military degrading part of Hezbollah's capabilities through military action.
So, help us explain to our viewers, Minister, why the Lebanese Armed Forces cannot disarm Hezbollah. Is it a question of capacity, or is it a question
of political will?
BASSIL: It is related to both issues. Because on one hand, Hezbollah is not only a military group or a military militia. Hezbollah is a community
in Lebanon. So, it gained its force and its capabilities through the legitimacy that was given to him by the Lebanese government for a long
period of time.
And disarming a group is not a push on a button when it is well surrounded by its community. OK, we want to restore the exclusivity of the arms by the
hand of the state, but we don't want to be dragged into a civil war.
And that's a big difference. If Israel is seeking real peace with Lebanon, we should not have a fragmented, weak state in Lebanon. We should have a
strong state that can build real peace, not only between the state of Lebanon and the state of Israel, but also between the people of Lebanon and
the people of Israel.
SOARES: So --
BASSIL: And this cannot be built based on war crimes committed every day by Israel, nor by doing a collaboration between the state of Israel and the
state of Lebanon against a community in Lebanon. We have to engage Hezbollah into --
SOARES: Yes --
BASSIL: A political process where all the elements are there; the military, the security, the financial, the economical. And we have to
pressure Hezbollah in a way to be part of the state of Lebanon and its decision-making, not seizing or controlling the decision --
SOARES: Yes --
BASSIL: Making of Lebanon, but being part of it.
SOARES: Let's push that forward then. Let's speak about the political will and the pressure that you're talking about, Minister. What then would
convince Hezbollah to put down their weapons? Just help us think this through.
Are we talking about a full Israeli withdrawal, a -- security guarantees, potentially a regional deal involving Iran? Or do you think, Minister, that
disarmament is simply not on the table for Hezbollah?
BASSIL: No, it is in their minds, it's not in their minds.
SOARES: Right --
BASSIL: But we have to put it in them. We have to insert it, that they have no other option, but being part of the Lebanese unanimity on building
a strong state. So --
SOARES: How do you put that in their minds then? How do you put that, Minister, in their minds?
BASSIL: We have to convince them that Lebanon will be protected without their arms. It will be protected by the U.N. resolutions. It will be
protected by international guarantees. It will be protected by defense treaties with foreign powers like the United States.
[14:20:00]
And it will be protected by an internal consensus on a security strategy that would defend Lebanon. And fifth, it would be protected by the
neutrality of Lebanon not being part of any foreign access in the region or any foreign conflict. OK?
Nor it is Israeli, nor it is Iranian. We should convince all the Lebanese that we are not annexed to any foreign power. We are an independent state
that can live in neutrality and spreading peace and prosperity and stability, instead of spreading wars and conflicts.
SOARES: And Minister, just before I leave you. I know you; I've seen that you've been sanctioned by the U.S. Treasury. And this is just for context
for our viewer, this happened, I understand during the Trump administration's first term.
Correct me if I'm wrong. What would you say to any critics, Minister, that may argue that, you know, that this undermines your credibility on issues
such as governance? How do you respond to that criticism?
BASSIL: Unfortunately, this is a political sanctioning for me, taking a position to preserve the national unity of Lebanon. We -- I paid a high
price to avoid a civil war in Lebanon. We don't want to have, again, a fight between Lebanese religions and communities.
We just need to preserve our country, its unity on all its 10,452 square kilometers. And we should do our best to be free, not annexed to any
foreign power, not also controlled by any internal power, like Hezbollah, but also not being obliged to abide by foreign agenda that jeopardizes our
unity and our security.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Minister Gebran Bassil speaking to me earlier. Well, in Turkey, at least, nine people have been killed in another school shooting. And a
warning, some of what you're about to see may be disturbing. Thirteen others were injured when a student opened fire at a middle school today.
Officials say the shooter then shot and killed himself. This is Turkey's second school shooting in just two days. On Tuesday, if you remember, a
former student injured 16 people at his former school. He then killed himself.
And still to come tonight, Pope Leo offers a message of peace as well as unity while the Trump administration keeps up its attacks. We'll speak to a
former Italian Prime Minister about this ongoing spat.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:25:00]
SOARES: Well, as concerns grow about the U.S. withdrawing support, and President Trump's distraction with the war against Iran, Ukrainian
President Volodymyr Zelenskyy presses on with his tour to collect European military assistance.
As we reported to you on Tuesday, Mr. Zelenskyy was in Germany, where he signed a deal to work with Berlin on drones and battlefield technology.
Hours later, he traveled to Norway for an agreement with Oslo on drone production and data sharing.
And today, meeting with Italian Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni. All of this, of course, as NATO Secretary-General, attends a military summit in Berlin
alongside Ukrainian, German as well as British Defense Ministers. Mark Rutte said he expects allies to fully fund a multi-billion-dollar aid
package. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARK RUTTE, SECRETARY-GENERAL, NATO: Yes, I'm optimistic that we will be able to fund the flow coming out of the U.S., crucial military support for
Ukraine, including air defense, yes, I'm optimistic I think in terms of building, sharing, we could do even better.
It is a limited amount of countries doing the heavy-lifting. But also, there we see a change for the better. So, yes, I'm optimistic.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Well, as Pope Leo arrives in Cameroon on his historic Africa tour, U.S. President Trump has taken a new swipe at him on social media. Trump
posting, "will someone please tell Pope Leo that Iran has killed at least 42,000 innocent, completely unarmed protesters in the last two months.
And that, for Iran to have a nuclear bomb is absolutely unacceptable." Vice President J.D. Vance, the highest ranking Catholic in the U.S. government
had this advice for the pope.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES DAVID VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think it's very important for the pope to be careful when he talks about matters of
theology. If you're going to opine on matters of theology, you've got to be careful. You've got to make sure it's anchored in the truth.
And that's one of the things that I try to do. And it's certainly something I would expect from the clergy, whether they're Catholic or protestant.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Well, let's stay with it. Let's get more on this. Joining me now is former Italian Prime Minister Matteo Renzi, who joins us now from Milan.
Prime Minister Renzi, great to have you back on the show. As you heard there, the President, President Trump doubling down it seems, on his fight
with the pope.
Saying what he said today, but saying over the two days that he should get his act together, calling him weak, saying he's not doing a good job. Just
your thoughts.
MATTEO RENZI, FORMER ITALIAN PRIME MINISTER: I think the decision of President Trump to attack also Vatican, to make a polemics also with Pope
Leo, also with the first American Pope is absolutely crazy. I hear the consideration, the remarks of a Vice President Vance, about religion.
I think it's absolutely crazy world that, not only for what happened in geopolitics, but also for the historical rules of diplomacy. So, my opinion
is, today, there is two American leader, one is the real hero of American dream, but that is the Pope Leo, Pope Prevost, not President Trump.
President Trump is an American nightmare today, not an American dream.
SOARES: And just for context, Prime Minister, for our viewers around the world, just to get a sense of what has happened, you know, at the weekend,
you know this, he posted this A.I.-generated image of himself as a Jesus- like figure.
I'm sure we have it to bring it to -- there it is, so viewers can see it. The week before that or a couple of weeks before that, he threatened, of
course, to destroy an entire civilization when he was speaking of Iran. I mean, is this normal rhetoric from a President? I wonder what is being said
in European capitals, European circles behind closed doors.
RENZI: In general, not only in Europe. I think when a leader, political leader decides to be blasphemous, decide to use religious images to use for
his political consensus, that is a very bad signal for the world, particularly for Europeans and particularly for Italians.
Bring the Catholic Church as a counterpart in politics is particularly a mistake today, because we need a unity to come back to our roots, our
values, our ideals, and try to divide also in the western societies, in the western culture between White House and Vatican is absolutely crazy.
And last, but not the least, there is a political remark. Far-right one in the United States, but also in some parts of Europe, Italy included, using
the consensus of Christians, using the message to the Christian people. What happened now when the government of a right in the United States tried
to attack the Christian leaders, one of the Christian leaders and the Catholic Holy Father?
So, in my opinion, for Donald Trump, that is a mistake around the world, but also will be a problem in his electoral base also in the next midterm
election. This is my prediction.
SOARES: Let me just turn to closer to homes because I know Prime Minister Meloni, who of course has been a staunch Trump ally, she also in the last
couple of days has offended the Pope, which then led to President Trump turning her on her. I think he called her, he said he was shocked by her. I
thought she was brave, but I was wrong. And he was referring there to the fact that she has been against the war in Iran. Are you surprised at all,
Prime Minister, that there is a rift here now between them?
RENZI: Prime Minister Meloni in the last three weeks had a lot of problems in Italy for internal reasons. First of all, she lost a very important
constitutional referendum, but she decided, she refused to resign despite the people voted against her.
Then there is a political problem because the pressure, the fiscal rating, the tax rating in Italy grew up too much, 43.1 percent, despite the promise
of President Meloni to reduce under 40 percent. Third, but not less important, is the energy cost. The problems in the Strait of Hormuz will
continue to increase in the next weeks.
So, that would create a climate very negative surrounding now Giorgia Meloni. And she decided to have not a great alliance with Trump because the
relation with Trump was a problem for Hungary. You remember what happened last Sunday in Budapest with the defeat of Viktor Orban. But also, before
that, in every country in which Trump tried to play a role, Canada, Australia, Greenland left wins also won in Greenland thanks to Trump.
So, in this chaotic world, I think Meloni is very weak and the break relation with Trump will be probably one of more problems in the next
months.
SOARES: Prime Minister Matteo Renzi, great to have you back on the show. Thank you very much, sir, live for us there from Milan. Thank you.
RENZI: Thank you.
SOARES: Thank you. Ciao. And still to come tonight, disturbing allegations of violent assaults against the most high-profile Palestinian prisoner in
Israeli custody. We'll speak to the son of Marwan Barghouti just ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:35:00]
SOARES: Welcome back, everyone. Severely beaten and left bleeding. Assaulted during a prison transfer. Repeatedly attacked by a dog in his
cell. A lawyer for Marwan Barghouti says the prominent Palestinian prisoner has been subjected to three violent assaults recently in Israeli custody.
He describes as a pattern of rapidly escalating abuse saying Barghouti is at immediate risk of severe harm or death. CNN has reached out to Israel's
prison service for comment.
Barghouti is widely considered the most popular Palestinian political figure, even behind bars, campaigning for decades for Palestinian
independence. He was first arrested by Israel at age 15. Barghouti is currently serving five life sentences after an Israeli court found him in
2002 of orchestrating deadly attacks. He denied the charges and rejected the court's legitimacy. Some international observers said he did not
receive a fair trial citing numerous breaches of international law.
And you may remember seeing Israel's national security minister visiting Barghouti in jail last year, taunting and threatening him. It was the first
time Barghouti had been seen in public in years and many were shocked by his gaunt appearance.
Barghouti's son says it's clear there is no protection for him, adding that Ben-Gvir has called for his father's death. Arab Barghouti is joining me
now from Ramallah. Arab, welcome to the show. I'm grateful for taking the time to speak to us.
Look, before coming on air, I was reading the statement from your father's lawyer and it makes for very difficult and very chilling reading, saying
that he has been subjected in recent weeks to three violent assaults. Can you tell us, give viewers a sense of what he's been facing?
ARAB BARGHOUTI, SON OF MARWAN BARGHOUTI: Yes, thank you for having me. I think what's happening with my father is an absolute crime and it comes as
a part of the greater context, which is the Palestinian people going under assault. And this is a continuation of that assault. My father has been put
in solitary confinement right after October 7th.
He's been abused, beaten, assaulted multiple times before this time. And unfortunately, the only way to get the news is through the lawyer. And the
lawyer is only allowed to see him every few months at best. And when he went a couple of days ago, we heard about the appalling and shocking news
about what my father has been through.
And believe me when I tell you, it's really not easy. You said it's chilling when you were reading it. Imagine how it is on his family. I think
it's really, really exhausting to have to come on the media and to speak about what my father is going through and that dogs are going and attacking
him. And I -- you know, it's really unfortunate that we have to go through this.
SOARES: Yes. I wonder if you could expand on that, because I know that he said that on April the 8th -- this is the lawyer for your father, said on
April the 8th in Ganot Prison, he was severely beaten and left bleeding for more than two hours. But you just said there's well, a dog, right? A dog
being going after him. Can you expand on that?
BARGHOUTI: So, basically what happened with him only in the three weeks, on March 24th, a group of prison guards came to him in his cell in Megiddo
prison and they put him on the ground and they brought a dog and the dog started kicking him with his paws. That was the first assault only in the
last three weeks.
On March 25th, he was being moved from Megiddo prison to Ganot prison. And there is a unit called An-Nahshon. An-Nahshon is known for being very
brutal against the Palestinian detainees. All the horrific stories you hear about, you hear about specifically while they're getting transferred. And
this is not the same the first time.
[14:40:00]
And they did attack him and assault him during the transfer process. And then on April 8th, which is only one week ago, they went to his cell in
Ganot prison. They started beating him up until he started bleeding. And he bled for a few hours with no medical treatment, refusing to give him any
medical treatment for that crime.
SOARES: And, Arab, just so you know, CNN has reached out to the Israel Prison Service for comment. We have not heard back. I will say that after
previous allegations of attacks on your father in Israeli custody last year, they did tell us they denied the allegations, calling them false
claims and stated that the service operates in accordance with the law. Of course, we await to see what they say on this occasion.
But let me just go back to what your father's lawyer has said. And he said, and I'm going to quote him here, let me see if I've got it. He said, "These
are not isolated incidents. They form a clear pattern of escalating abuse, violence, medical neglect and treatment that places him at immediate risk."
What does he mean by that? I mean, do you believe that this is linked in any way to renewed calls for his release, or is this part of a broader
pattern affecting Palestinian prisoners here?
BARGHOUTI: Of course, it's part of the broader pattern. And it has to do with the assaults on the whole of the Palestinian people. If we want to
talk about what's happening in Palestine, do we start with the genocide in Gaza for the last two years? Do we start with the settler terrorism in the
West Bank? Do we start with the crimes against humanity, against the Palestinian detainees that more than 100 of them have been killed or the
discrimination against Palestinians inside Israel? I think that, of course, it's part of that.
But also, he's being targeted for one reason and one reason only. He represents hope, hope for political renewal, hope for a better future for
the Palestinian people, someone who has supported the peace process as long as it's a just peace and secures independence and freedom of the
Palestinian people, which is a right for us as Palestinians.
And they -- honestly, you've mentioned the IPS. We both know the answer of the IPS, they would say that we deny, it didn't happen. OK, how about you
bring humanitarian organizations to go and see him, visit him? How about you bring politicians? How about you bring his family who hasn't been able
to see him for three and a half years?
SOARES: Yes, you haven't been -- I mean, you haven't seen your father for four years. You were only, I think, 11 years of age when he was arrested.
And, you know, we will put that, of course, to the Israel Prison Service as we await for comment, Arab, just so you know.
But let me ask you a question as we're running out of time. And this is critical. And you would have seen and no doubt are being worried about the
latest bill that was passed by the Israeli Knesset. I think it was just some two weeks or just a bit over two weeks ago. And this was a law that
imposes the death penalty on Palestinians convicted of fatal attacks. A bill -- if we've got the footage, we have the footage here that was
celebrated, as we're seeing here, by the national security minister Itamar Ben-Gvir with beer. I think he looks like beer in his hand.
Do you worry your -- champagne, I'm being told. Do you worry that your father could be targeted under this bill?
BARGHOUTI: I don't think the bill applies on my father or anyone who has been already sentenced. But at the same time, of course, I'm worried. I'm
worried because I see Ben-Gvir, you know, operating with full impunity. He has no worries about the consequences of his actions.
And this is a clear application of apartheid. What does it mean that the death penalty only applies on the Palestinian people only in a land full of
Palestinians and Israelis? If that's not apartheid, I don't know what is. And I think it's, you know, really, really shocking for me. The biggest
shock is the Western leaders and their silence against the brutal attacks against my father, against the horrible treatment of Palestinian political
prisoners against these laws. And I think that their silence is normalizing the Palestinian suffering.
SOARES: Really appreciate you, Arab, taking the time to speak to us. Let us know as soon as you've spoken to your father, any more details from your
father. Thank you very much. Arab Barghouti, there.
Now, today, as you've been hearing on the show, is My Freedom Day, an annual day of action against human trafficking and modern-day slavery.
Still to come on the show, our Lynda Kinkade is with students who are bringing attention to that very cause. You'll hear from them next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:45:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JUDY SANGO, YOUTH WITH DISABILITIES CONNECTIONS: Awareness must lead to action. Action must lead to measurable change. Above all, children must be
believed, cherished, and fiercely protected.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: That is an inspiring call to arms for this year's My Freedom Day. That's from Youth with Disability Connections. They are working with other
groups to bring attention to the issues of child exploitation and modern- day slavery.
Our Lynda Kinkade joins us now from Atlanta. So, Lynda, paint us a picture of what she is. Paint us a picture of how students then are marking this
milestone. I know you're surrounded by beautiful art behind you.
LYNDA KINKADE, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, they are really embracing the artwork this year. This is the 10th anniversary of My Freedom Day. You can see some of
the highlights, Isa, over the last 10 years. And today, every grade has participated in some phenomenal artwork that's in this auditorium.
I've got Robert with me who has used photography to create an image of freedom. Just explain what you've created, Robert.
ROBERT: So, it's these two photos here. I've kind of tried to unify them by using the same color palette and also using the same deep shadows. I
think it's sort of a situation where this is sort of an artificial representation of nature and you have these black bars which I think work
as a visual metaphor for imprisonment. And then here you have kind of a much, I think, freer image and it's with real nature. So, it's kind of just
a little commentary on what's free and what isn't.
KINKADE: Yes. Of course, art is such a wonderful way to explain a very complex issue visually. And Sophia is another incredible artist. Sophia,
explain what you've created here.
SOPHIA: Yes. So, Unshackled Strength talks about women's rights and the stereotypes and pressures put on women by the society. For example, the
shackles right here shows that the girl is being held back. But at the same time, her arms are very strong and so she's ready to persevere through any
challenges.
KINKADE: And this is not just an incredible piece of art. This is an award-winning piece of art that has left planet Earth, right? Explain that.
SOPHIA: Yes, so it got top 4 percent in the international art competition and it got digitally sent to the moon in a time capsule a few years ago.
Yes.
KINKADE: Absolutely incredible. He says, you know, the students here at the Atlanta International School are very impressive and I've been coming
here for the last decade. We've got some 10th and 9th grade students behind us. What day is it?
CROWD: My Freedom Day.
[14:50:00]
KINKADE: I'm going to show you a few of those highlights right now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KINKADE: I'm Lynda Kinkade at the Atlanta International School, where students from kindergarten to grade 12 are staging a mass walkout for
freedom.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It means to me is having a right to have a home and go to school and have a job.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So, fair trade just basically means it's ethically sourced that there's no labor trafficking or exploitation.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're free to go to school and no one is like the boss of you except for the teachers.
KINKADE: More than a thousand students from the Atlanta International School coming out (INAUDIBLE) to spell out the words My Freedom Day.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Freedom is a right. They promised hope but delivered fear. Smiles that lied and no one near. Taken in silence, hidden in plain
sight, days without names, endless night. But chains can break and voices can rise. Truth survives even behind closed eyes. I am not a number, not a
price, not a secret sacrifice. An injury to one is an injury to all. So, we rise together so no one falls.
Freedom is not a privilege, not a dream delayed. It is a right and it will not fade until every door is opened, until no one is bought or sold. We
stand, we speak, we shine light in the cold. Because freedom is a right for every life.
KINKADE: Some really, really powerful words there. How did you come with that?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't know just like the passion and just like having AIS and human trafficking really helped me get my words together.
KINKADE: Amazing, incredible work here today on the 10th anniversary of --
CROWD: My Freedom Day.
KINKADE: Back to you, Isa.
SOARES: Thank you very much. Incredible poem and beautiful artwork too. Congratulations to everyone. Thanks to Lynda and the team there in Atlanta.
We're going to take a short break. We'll see you on the other side.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: Well, as Sudan's devastating civil war enters its fourth year, the U.N. warns some 14 million people are displaced and hungry and that the
conflict is spiraling out of control. With no end in sight, I do want to play you a part of the conversation with a photojournalist, Giles Clarke,
who was seeing the crisis up close.
[14:55:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GILES CLARKE, PHOTOJOURNALIST: The two generals that created this war within the country are really just pawns in the bigger picture. There's the
regional level around Sudan, which is Chad and Ethiopia, who are more interested in, I suppose, this ethnic-tribal violence and the militias.
Then you've got Libya to the north, who are very much into the trading side of it. That's north of Darfur. But less important than, say, Egypt, who are
aligned with the government forces who are interested in the water from the Nile and the trading routes there. And then going slightly wider out,
you've obviously got Saudi Arabia, who are interested in the stability of the Red Sea. And --
SOARES: And then some resources, right? And then other interesting resources.
CLARKE: The biggest thing is the gold and the trade of that.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOARES: Charles Clark. Well, let's take time to look at the worst humanitarian crisis in Sudan. And as we know, millions are displaced. And
here we see the (INAUDIBLE) camp, where families fled after El Fasher, the city fell to paramilitary forces.
I want to show you this photo that shows displaced Sudanese really registering for desperately needed food aid delivery, as you can see here.
Dire situation, dear story, that we are going to continue telling.
Thank you very much for your company. Do stay right here. "What We Know" with Max Foster is up next. Have a wonderful day.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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END
