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Isa Soares Tonight
Pentagon Plans A Public Livestream Of A Firing Squad Execution Of Nidal Hasan; Alleged Flydubai Hijacker Said 9/11 Attacks Spurred Him To Become A Pilot; Hurricane Isaias Set To Make Landfall In Florida And Alabama; Man Shot And Wounded By ICE Agents In New York; Strong Earthquake Rocks Panama, Tsunami Warnings Issued; U.S. Sanctions International Criminal Court Hours After Former Judge Nazi Pillay Wins 2026 Nobel Peace Prize; Paxton Upset Outgoing Texas Sen. Cornyn Not Helping Him More; Senate Debates Play Out In Three Heated Races Ahead Of Midterms; Trump To Campaign For Republicans Tonight In New York; Trump Picks Conservative Commentator Katie Zacharia To Serve As New White House Press Secretary; Anthropic To Ban Abusive Behavior Toward its A.I. Chatbot. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired October 09, 2026 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00]
CHRISTINA MACFARLANE, HOST, ISA SOARES TONIGHT: A very warm welcome to the show, everyone, I'm Christina Macfarlane in for Isa Soares. Tonight, the
Pentagon plans a public livestream of a firing squad execution. Is it possible? Is it legal and is it ethical? We will discuss.
Then, new details about the alleged Flydubai hijacker who said 9/11 spurred him on to become a pilot. And a hurricane barrel towards Florida and
Alabama. It's set to make landfall later today. The first hurricane to do so in the U.S. in two years. We'll go live to Alabama.
But we begin with what could be a gruesome public spectacle unprecedented in the United States. The Pentagon is facing backlash today for plans to
execute a murder by firing squad and broadcast it live. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth calls it a no brainer.
He's enthusiastically championing the push to publicly execute Nidal Hasan; a former U.S. Army psychiatrist who killed 13 people in a mass shooting at
the Fort Hood military base in 2009. Hasan's execution is set for December 3rd at that same location.
It would be the first death by U.S. Army firing squad since World War II, and the first ever to be livestreamed. Well, Hegseth says he likes the
World War II -- suggesting it represents a toughness against enemies. He spoke out about the execution plans to far-right podcaster aboard the USS
Abraham Lincoln.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETE HEGSETH, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE, UNITED STATES: He's going to get a firing squad of soldiers, as it should be, and we'll make sure that people
are able to watch it, that it's public because people need to understand that, you know what? This is a -- there are serious consequences for these
types of things.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACFARLANE: Well, those plans are facing pushback from both political parties. One Republican Senator calls it beyond disgusting, saying public
executions are what oppressive dictatorships like Iran and Afghanistan do. It should not be happening in America.
Meanwhile, President Donald Trump addressed the controversy a short time ago. Let's have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Today, you can do almost anything. Nothing happens. But we're changing that. You see that. In fact,
we're giving a man the death penalty who killed 14 soldiers a couple of years ago.
(APPLAUSE)
TRUMP: Death penalty through firing squad. And he deserves it. Killed and wounded many people. A maniac.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACFARLANE: Well, let's get more now from CNN's Haley Britzky, who is live for us in Washington. And Haley, there's been so much reaction to this
today, but it's interesting to note that while Donald Trump was voicing his support for the execution again here by firing squad, a short time ago,
Vice President J.D. Vance came out and said he was actually against the livestreaming aspect of this. Can you just walk us through what he said and
how significant that is?
HALEY BRITZKY, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: Yes, absolutely, Christina. And I do want to note off of the President's remarks there that
it was, as you mentioned, 13 soldiers who were killed. And he said it was a couple of years ago, this was in 2009.
But Vice President J.D. Vance did just moments ago, saying he wasn't sure it was actually going to happen. We can take a listen to him now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES DAVID VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, first of all, I've seen these announcements. I don't know that that's actually going to
happen. Let's sort of see what -- I think it's going to happen in December when he's executed.
But what I try to remind people is, look, this is a guy who committed, in my view, the worst terrorist attack on American soil outside of 9/11. Look,
if it's ultimately livestreamed, I'm not going to be watching it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BRITZKY: So, there are a lot of questions that remain, Christina, about the details of how this livestream would be carried out if it goes forward.
Questions like how it will be livestreamed? On what platforms? Would social media platforms allow it to be a content on their platform?
What soldiers would be carrying out, and how they will be chosen? So, there's a lot that we don't know about this, but of course, there's been
bipartisan backlash so far. As you mentioned, Senator Thom Tillis saying it was beyond disgusting.
There was also a post online from Joe Kent; the former Director of the National Counterterrorism Center, who said it was beneath the dignity and
decency of our nation, and said it will give terrorists free propaganda they will use to radicalize and recruit more terrorists.
[14:05:00[
And that is largely the criticism that we're hearing here. It's not necessarily that the death penalty is being applied to Nidal Hasan's case.
A lot of people saying that that's something that they believe that he deserves, given the crime that he committed in 2009 and was convicted of.
But there is concern about how that footage of how livestreaming that execution could be used by the U.S.' enemies abroad.
Another person who spoke about this, Senator Chris Murphy on CNN last night, calling it disgusting and said it was mimicking ISIS executions.
Let's listen to what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. CHRIS MURPHY (D-CT): I mean, that's disgusting. What is he mimicking ISIS executions? I mean, I understand that in this country we have the
death penalty, but public executions is medieval. It's frankly one of the things that we abhor about terrorist groups.
And the fact that the United States is doing it, I just learned this. That is just absolutely, extraordinarily galling. No matter whether you support
or oppose the death penalty, public hangings and executions, that's what America has become? That's pretty extraordinary.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BRITZKY: And there is one more note I want to make Christina, that Army regulations specify who can witness a military execution. It says people
like chaplains, the prisoner's counsel, if requested, a minimum of two media representatives.
But it also says who cannot witness it, which is people under 18 or minors are not able to witness the military execution. Obviously, that's something
you can't control if it's being livestreamed broadly.
So, there are questions of if the Pentagon is going to waive that regulation in order to carry this out, but it's certainly something that
has gotten a lot of attention here in D.C. today. A lot of questions still being asked, but not a whole lot of answers yet from the Pentagon.
Christina.
MACFARLANE: Yes, big questions as to whether a legal challenge is going to follow from this, given everything you've outlined there. Haley, thank you
very much. Let's turn now to military historian Max Boot; he is a columnist with "The Washington Post".
And Max, I'm sure you've been listening in on all of the reaction we've had on this, today. But to put this in a historical context. I mean, this
execution, as we've been saying, would be the first firing squad executions of its kind since 1945, World War II.
But the livestream aspect of it is unprecedented. We know that Amnesty International have said that only two countries have publicly carried out
public executions in the last year, that is, Iran and Afghanistan. What does it say to you that the United States are now in that sort of company?
MAX BOOT, COLUMNIST, THE WASHINGTON POST: Well, I'm not sure it's actually going to happen. I mean, when J.D. Vance is criticizing it, that's a
suggestion that the administration will probably pull back, because I really have not heard anybody say anything positive about it.
The one word that keeps coming up is barbaric, and it is cruel and barbaric and would clearly place us in outlier position in the world. I mean,
countries like Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia do public executions and even they don't livestream it.
Livestreaming it, that's something that ISIS does. I don't think that's the kind of model that the United States wants to emulate. But I think this is
kind of emblematic of the Trump administration approach, which is this kind of performative cruelty.
It really feeds this bloodlust, and you see it in other ways. For example, the way that the Trump administration is constantly posting pictures and
videos of U.S. forces blowing up alleged drug boats in the Caribbean and the Pacific.
We have no idea who's on board those boats. We know that those strikes are illegal. They're a violation of the laws of war. But the Trump
administration kind of revels in the violence that it inflicts. And I think this is part and parcel of that extremely distressing and unfortunate
approach.
MACFARLANE: On the parallels that are being drawn here to terror groups like ISIS, who, of course, are infamous for their public executions. I just
want to mention here, a comment, a tweet on X by Joe Kent, who is the former Director of the National Counterterrorism Center, who said this
today.
He said, quote, "streaming his execution is not just a stain on our morality. It also gives the terrorists free propaganda that they will use
to radicalize and recruit more terrorists like Hassan." And Max, how correct is he in that assertion?
BOOT: I mean, that's a legitimate concern. I mean, we should remember what happened when ISIS was livestreaming the execution of western hostages that
caused the West to shriek in horror and say, gosh, you know, ISIS is so fierce and barbaric that we couldn't possibly fight them.
In fact, the reaction was just the opposite. We mobilized an international coalition to go out and destroy them because we were so appalled by the way
this terrorist group was acting.
[14:10:00]
Well, I mean, if we're acting in similar fashion, you can imagine that there could be a similar backlash in the world, and the spectacle is really
a revolting one because you have to imagine a firing squad, shooting this convicted murderer who's sitting in a wheelchair.
I mean, this is not exactly heroic military combat. And I among other things, I also worry about the impact on the psychology and morale of the
soldiers who are forced to do this. This is not why anybody signs -- joins and signs up to -- for the U.S. military. This is not a combat. This is --
this is an extremely distasteful and even barbaric duty.
MACFARLANE: I mean, there's so many areas really on which this could backfire. But I think you pointed out one just there, which is worth
remembering that Hasan was convicted of killing 13 people and injuring 32 others at the Fort Hood military base in 2009.
There's a risk there now, isn't there? Of that being forgotten, and Hasan being painted as a sympathetic figure rather than a mass murderer.
BOOT: Well, that's exactly right. I mean, the last thing you want to do is turn this mass murderer into a figure of sympathy. And I fear that if this
project were to go forward, that could very well happen.
I mean, in general, I will say that my view of the death penalty and I think the views of a lot of people in the United States have been changing
over the years. And I think there's a lot less support for the death penalty than there once was.
I mean, on the merits, you can certainly make the case for executing somebody who went out and murdered 13 fellow soldiers. But you know, I
think there is a higher moral imperative. And I think a lot of people are, you know, very concerned when our government carries out a state-sanctioned
killing in our name and of this type.
And I think it will probably -- it could certainly cause sympathy for this murder, but it could also cause even more people to recoil away from the
death penalty.
MACFARLANE: Yes, and a final thought. I mean, you mentioned as well just then that, you know, this decision follows on from the Trump administration
releasing those videos showing the U.S. military blowing up drug vessels, you know, in this sort of campaign they have against alleged narco
terrorists.
What do you think is the goal of all of this performative cruelty being publicized and sort of put on our airwaves by the Trump administration?
What do you think they are trying to do with this now, collectively?
BOOT: Quite honestly, I think they're appealing to the same audience as professional wrestling, which Trump is also intimately associated with. He
often shows up at wrestling matches. I mean, the difference, of course, is everybody knows that wrestling is just a show. It's just a spectacle. It's
not real. It's just a -- you know, playacting cruelty.
Whereas this is actual cruelty. But I think there's a sense that some of the MAGA base, maybe a lot of the MAGA base enjoys the bloodlust. They
enjoy seeing their champions inflict pain and suffering on others, you know, who are these villainized, demonized figures.
And I think that, you know, that impulse perhaps is always present in any human society. But it's a very unfortunate impulse that our leaders should
not be catering to.
MACFARLANE: Well, as we said at the top, Max, we will wait to see if this happens at all, whether this moves forward. But thank you very much for
giving us your insight, your thoughts --
BOOT: Yes, I mean, as I said, I'm skeptical that it will happen. I suspect they'll abandon it because there's so much criticism.
MACFARLANE: We'll wait and see. Thank you. Well, we're now learning the alleged Flydubai hijacker was inspired by the 9/11 attacks so much as to
spur him on to become a pilot. An early investigation carried out in the UAE said Hamam Al-Hammami, the suspect and copilot of last week's flight
from Dubai to Tel Aviv, planned to crash the plane into Ben-Gurion Airport with the aim of causing the greatest possible number of casualties.
Let's bring in our Jerusalem correspondent Jeremy Diamond for more on this breaking story. So, Jeremy, I mean, the details of this are pretty
disturbing in light of the fact that the pilot seems to have been inspired by 9/11. What more are you learning?
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Yes, really extraordinary new details revealed by the United Arab Emirates Attorney General, revealing
not only that this was a quote, "premeditated plot" with a terrorist objective carried out by the copilot of that Flydubai flight bound for Tel
Aviv.
[14:15:00]
But also, that this copilot was apparently inspired by the 9/11 attacks, not only inspired by them, but also that it pushed him into a career of
aviation with the goal of ultimately trying to carry out some kind of an attack using an aircraft very similar to what happened on September 11th,
2001.
And indeed, the UAE's Attorney General says that the goal that this copilot had when he attacked the captain of that plane and tried to take control of
that flight, was to fly that plane into Israel's Ben Gurion International Airport, flying it into the passenger terminal with the, quote, "intention
of causing the greatest number of casualties."
What we've also learned in this statement from the UAE's public prosecutor is that this pilot, Hamam Al-Hammami, whose identity we've previously
revealed, he made two previous flights to Tel Aviv to familiarize himself with the flight route and with the airport.
Now that will raise new questions here in Israel as well, where there have already been questions about how this pilot, an Omani citizen, a country
with whom Israel does not have any diplomatic relations, was able to get into a cockpit and fly into a country where he wouldn't even be granted
entry at the border.
But now, it's not only this one flight on September 30th, but apparently two previous flights before that allowed him to kind of plan out his
attack, plan out the attack on his captain, and how he would ultimately hijack this plane and fly it into Ben-Gurion Airport.
Now, of course, we know that he did not get that far, in large part thanks to the heroic actions of several of the Israeli passengers on board that
flight. There was also the fact that there were two other pilots who were supposed to fly the plane back to Dubai, who were on board and were able to
land this place safely -- this plane safely in Saudi Arabia.
Now, the UAE's Attorney General says that all of this information was largely gleaned from a detailed confession that Hamam Al-Hammami gave in
the presence of an attorney. So far, Al-Hammami is saying that he acted alone.
But the UAE is making very clear that this investigation is ongoing to verify that claim and to also better understand how he was hired at
Flydubai as a pilot, given the fact that he had previously been dismissed from a position at Oman Air over his extremist views.
So, a lot more to still be -- to be investigated by the Emirati authorities. And we know that the Emirati authorities have also been in
close coordination with the Israeli authorities over the course of this investigation.
MACFARLANE: Yes, disturbing to hear how premeditated this all might have been. Jeremy Diamond there with the latest. Thank you. Now, the U.S. Gulf
Coast is bracing for a Category 3 hurricane to make landfall. Hurricane Isaias is now expected to come ashore in just hours from now near the
Alabama-Florida border.
People are getting ready with sandbags, boarding up buildings and buying emergency food and fuel. Mandatory evacuations are underway in parts of
Florida due to an expected storm surge. Widespread power outages are expected along with rain and potential tornadoes.
States of emergency have been issued for parts of Alabama, Florida and Georgia. Isabel Rosales is joining us now from one of those regions, the
Gulf Shores in Alabama. And Isabel, I can see there that the weather is beginning to pick up.
We know this hurricane is likely to make landfall in the hours ahead. Just talk us through what you're seeing and feeling there as people prepare.
ISABEL ROSALES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I was just speaking, Christina, yesterday with the Mayor of Gulf Shores, Robert Craft, and he was telling
me, boy, I really hope that people take this seriously because for this city, that's this coastal resort town here by the Gulf of Mexico, they
hadn't been through something like this since Hurricane Sally back in 2020.
And since then, they've had this explosion in the population with many people, this will be their first time dealing with a hurricane. How do I
know that people are taking this seriously? Well, take a look over here. One of these hotels, The Lodge at Gulf State Park.
They have actually taped down umbrellas, they've taped down chairs, anything that could be a flying projectile, certainly could be something
serious. And Christina, we're feeling these wind gusts really starting to pick up now, even as I talk to you.
We were actually going to go to the beach to give you a closer look at what conditions are looking like, but this is what we encountered. They have a
zip tied. The boardwalks put a lock on it down the way. There's another bigger boardwalk.
[14:20:00]
They've actually taken two-by-fours and drilled the entrance because they do not want people to go out here in these conditions. And as we move the
camera into the gulf, look at this. Just yesterday, Christina, there were visitors here on the beach.
Like, sure, the conditions weren't great, but it was still safe to be on the beach. They were under umbrellas, well, not anymore. This is a ghost
town and you can see why? Look at that chop from the gulf.
The storm surge is a serious threat here. They're expecting up to 9 feet of storm surge. Imagine that. That's a problem not just for these coastal
towns. But you're talking about inland flooding as well, and up to 15 inches of rainfall could happen here in these gulf communities.
It's serious. It's dangerous. I mean, when we were talking yesterday, we figured and we were hopeful that this hurricane could weaken some from the
wind shear before making landfall. That's not expected to happen. This is expected.
Hurricane Isaias is expected to make landfall as a major Cat 3 hurricane. That's about 110 mile per hour sustained winds. And I got to tell you,
since my last live shot, Christina, the winds are definitely picking up.
This is why here in this town of Gulf Shores; they've shut down the two bridges leading in and out of this community because it's just unsafe being
there. I was speaking with a city official who said the time to prepare -- wow, the time to prepare is closed. It's over.
They want people to find their permanent place to hunker down and weather this storm, and they want people off the roads, no longer out there here in
under two hours. This rain is coming from my right-hand side and it is slapping me in the face. It's only going to get worse --
MACFARLANE: Yes --
ROSALES: Because in these few hours before landfall, that's when the conditions will be the worst, Christina. And I'll leave you with this, a
curfew is in --
MACFARLANE: Yes --
ROSALES: Effect not only here for Gulf Shores, but nearby Mobile as well. They want people to stay put.
MACFARLANE: Yes, well, we can -- we can really see and hear the wind, Isabel. And as you say, we hope people will be able to hunker down -- you
too, as this hurricane nears landfall. Thank you very much for now, Isabel, we'll check back with you next hour.
Now, heavy rains in Chile have triggered mudslides and floods around the capital city of Santiago. You can see from this video, Santiago, how
quickly some of the flooding happened. A man here on the top of this car, climbing out of a truck, had to grab on to a nearby tree to escape.
The floods forced hundreds of residents to quickly evacuate. At least, six people have been injured. Here's CNN's Chris Ulloa with the latest.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRISTOPHER ULLOA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera): At least, six people have been injured and hundreds of vehicles and homes have been affected after a
sudden flash flood here in Santiago, Chile. And I'm going to show you right away in the images of my cameraman, Jose Vasquez(ph), the level of damage
and affection here in this zone amid the heavy rainfall intensified by the El Nino phenomenon.
Chilean authorities reported that the collapse of a ravine triggered a mudslide that swept these vehicles, many of them with people inside along
for several blocks. Chilean President Jose Antonio Kast declared a state of catastrophe here in the Las Condes District, one of the most affluent areas
here in the capital zone.
And you can see in the images there, there are fallen trees, there are rocks, there's water and mud everywhere. And the authorities have also
urged the public to respect the evacuation orders and also have called to the people to remain cautious because the rainfall and the thunderstorms
are expected to come back tonight in many regions of the country. For CNN, Christopher Ulloa, Santiago, Chile.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MACFARLANE: Still to come tonight on the show, ICE agents open fire on a car in New York with a five-year-old child inside. Why U.S. officials say
those agents had no other choice. Plus, the Midterms. We will tell you where the U.S. President is headed today and how his Republican allies are
faring on the debate stage.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:25:00]
MACFARLANE: U.S. Homeland Security is defending ICE agents amid a firestorm of outrage over the shooting of a man in New York. This is a newly-released
video from the New York Police. The man, Oscar Belgal, is from the Dominican Republic.
A law enforcement source tells CNN, he was wounded, but his injuries are not considered life-threatening. New York Mayor Zohran Mamdani lashed out
at ICE agents for firing into the car with a five-year-old boy in the back seat.
The child was not physically hurt. Now, here's how Homeland Security Secretary Markwayne Mullin responded to the mayor's comments.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARKWAYNE MULLIN, SECRETARY OF HOMELAND SECURITY, UNITED STATES: We wasn't aware the child was in the car, I can tell you that. But do you know who
was? Oscar. Oscar knew he had a child in his car. Oscar chose to accelerate at a high rate of speed and ram two different vehicles as he was -- as
appears to be going towards officers.
And so, the public outcry should be also towards this criminal, this thug, this gangbanger, that's possible murderer, the outrage should be with him
for endangering the five-year-old.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACFARLANE: And officials say agents were forced to fire on the car after the man weaponized his vehicle and accelerated towards officers. The
incident triggered fierce anti-ICE protests, which included some clashes between demonstrators and police, as you can see here.
CNN's Brynn Gingras is in New York and has been following the story. So, Brynn, there are quite a lot of competing accounts of what actually
happened here during the shooting. What does that video that's been newly released from the NYPD show us?
BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN U.S. NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, there's still -- there are still just questions. To your point, though, we don't know what
happened before, right? Because we know that the ICE agents were wearing body cameras, but the Defense Secretary saying that video is not going to
be released yet.
So, the video that was just released is from the NYPD. They are not the ones investigating this incident. It is a federal investigation. However,
they did release the body cameras of their officers approaching the scene as it was really quite chaotic.
You can see in the video that you're showing your viewers, as they pull up to the scene, you can see a person wearing a construction-looking vest
holding a big rifle in the air. You can see the subject, Oscar Belgal on the ground, kneeling with his hands cuffed.
And those NYPD officers tried to provide him some aid. So, again, a lot of questions though still remain exactly what happened? What was the reason
for this takedown? The Defense -- DHS Secretary rather saying that this was someone who was targeted, that has a long criminal history.
But again, a lot of people protesting not only last night, but there's going to be some today because they want to understand the circumstances of
why they had to do this with guns drawn, guns fired again with a five-year- old inside that car.
But big question right now for Belgal at least, is, will he still remain in ICE custody? I can tell you guys right now, there's a hearing that's going
to take place in about an hour. His attorney is asking that a judge weigh in on whether or not the government can deport him this -- at this point
back to the Dominican Republic. So, we're certainly following those developments inside court.
[14:30:18]
MACFARLANE: All right. Well, we will obviously continue to follow it to you. Brynn, thank you very much for the update.
We just want to turn to some breaking news coming into CNN now. We're learning there has been a strong earthquake in Panama along the southern
coast of the country. The U.S. Geological Survey recorded the quake at a magnitude 7.7. Now we do not have information yet on the damage, but
tsunami warnings have been issued for several Central American countries and Mexico. We'll bring you more updates as soon as we have them.
OK. Still to come tonight on the show, Midterm excuses. Why one Republican says another Republican is refusing to help him in a key Senate race.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MACFARLANE: Navi Pillay has been announced as this year's winner of the Nobel Peace Prize. The Nobel Committee says it honored her for her
exceptional courage and integrity. The 85-year-old South African has served across the most important international courts as well as serving as the
U.N. High Commissioner for Human Rights.
In 2023, she led the independent U.N. Commission that concluded Israel had committed genocide against Palestinians in Gaza, a finding the Israeli
government rejected. We spoke with Pillay after the report came out last year. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NAVI PILLAY, NOBEL PEACE PRIZE RECIPIENT: There is much despondency right now just all around the public is extremely disillusioned about the value
of the U.N. system, the value of international justice -- international law for justice and accountability, you know, so everybody's concerned. So am
I. We don't have any better mechanisms than the institutions we have now.
So, with the United Nations human right nations human rights council passed resolutions giving us a mandate to these -- to do these investigations, we
do it and we do a thorough job so that one day there will be justice. There will be people who will have to answer for these crimes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[14:35:28]
MACFARLANE: Well, as a lawyer, Navi Pillay fought apartheid before rising, excuse me, to prominence on the international stage. Nada Bashir reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NADA BASHIR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Human rights pioneer Dr. Navi Pillay has been awarded this year's Nobel Peace Prize. A South African anti-apartheid
lawyer turned international jurist who in the words of the Nobel Committee has been instrumental in ensuring that war crimes, crimes against humanity,
and genocide are prosecuted.
Pillay first learned of her win while attending an event at the courts that hosted the Nuremberg trials years ago. Her initial response to the news was
simply, "Is it true?" She later quipped, "If you clap a little bit more, I may share this prize with Trump."
Pillay has served as a judge on the world's most important courts of international law, including the International Criminal Court, the
International Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda, and the International Court of Justice, as well as serving as the U.N. High Commissioner for Human Rights
between 2008 and 2014. She also recently led the U.N. Commission that concluded Israel committed genocide against Palestinians in Gaza, which
Israel denies.
In response to Pillay's win, U.N. Human Rights Chief Volker Turk said her award marks a collective win for human rights, but also for seeking justice
and accountability in this world. The president of the International Criminal Court, meanwhile, said the 2026 Peace Prize presents an important
recognition of the vital role that international justice plays as a cornerstone of lasting peace.
In recent months, core institutions upholding international law have come under increased pressure. The chair of the Norwegian Nobel Committee
characterized this year's award as a reminder to the world that "Operating without the rule of law is unjust, unwise, and inhumane."
Nada Bashir, CNN in London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MACFARLANE: Well, just hours after the Nobel Peace Prize was announced, the U.S. placed further sanctions against the International Criminal Court.
Secretary of State Marco Rubio called it a rogue court. The ICC says its activities will continue with resilience. The U.S. did not clarify what its
sanctions would be.
As we're turning to more news now on our breaking story, we're learning there has been a strong earthquake in Panama along the southern coast of
the country. The U.S. Geological Survey recorded the quake at magnitude 7.7. CNN's Patrick Oppmann is tracking this story for us and joins us now.
Patrick, a magnitude 7.7 is a very large earthquake. What more are you learning about where this happened?
PATRICK OPPMANN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: So, it is a very powerful earthquake. And I know Panama quite well. My family happens to be there at
the moment. I'm in Cuba, but they called me to say that not only had they felt it, but that they had never really remembered feeling earthquake quite
this strong.
My daughter Alisa, who's years old, said the pictures were shaking in the wall, that their dog Chi-Chi started barking before this all took place.
The house that they're in, the water in the pool was slashing. And we've seen images from across Panama City, which is a city of high-rise
apartments in great part of people having to evacuate, getting out of those buildings because, of course, the higher up you are, you feel the effects
of earthquake much more. And you do not want to be in a -- in a building when you have this kind of shaking, this kind of very powerful earthquake.
So, you know, no report at this moment of any loss of life, of any major damage, but that will take a while. Panama gets -- experiences earthquakes.
You have these shakes. I've been there before and felt little ones before. I really don't remember one so powerful at any point in recent memory.
Certainly, my family who were there and my in-laws are Panamanians said they really don't remember one quite this strong.
Luckily though, where they were, no damage took place. It was just some picture shaking on the wall. Everyone felt it in the house at the same
time. Again, you know, the family dog was barking and there was water slashing in the pool. We've seen video from high-rise apartments of water
actually slushing over the side of the buildings as people are evacuating. Of course, there's always a fear, you know, you could have more
aftershocks.
But this is -- Panama City is a city that apartments buildings are very well built, prepared for this because it is an earthquake zone. But again,
you know, never remember hearing one quite this strong before. Certainly, my family that's there at the moment and luckily are all fine said they've
never experienced one quite of this magnitude before.
[14:40:01]
MACFARLANE: Yes. Well, Patrick we're glad to hear that your family are well. Obviously, it's concerning in light of the fact that this region has
seen so many major earthquakes in recent months. So, it's something we'll continue to follow of course and bring you more details as soon as we have
it. Patrick Oppmann, thank you for now.
And we will be right back after this short break. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MACFARLANE: Now, with U.S. Midterms less than a month away, there are signs of division inside the Republican Party. In a leaked audio recording, Ken
Paxton, the Republican running for Senate in Texas, complains about fellow Republican Senator John Corwin -- Cornyn, sorry. Paxton beat Cornyn in the
primary runoff. And in the leaked audio, Paxton says Cornyn wanted him to lose. The Texas race is one of the most expensive contests in the midterms.
Candidates in three other key Senate races took to the debate stage Thursday night and one of those debates came from Georgia.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JON OSSOFF (D-GA), SENATE INCUMBENT: Tonight, a united Georgia will hear the trial of Mike Collins. Mike Collins has brought dishonor to our
state through his personal bigotry and his widely documented ties to white nationalists.
REP. MIKE COLLINS (R-GA), SENATE CANDIDATE: No one has ever asked or held Jon Ossoff accountable for any of his votes or the reasons why. Why did he
-- I had to write a bill to fight these synthetic drugs because he left that border open.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACFARLANE: Well, incumbent Democratic Senator Jon Ossoff and his Republican challenger, Congressman Mike Collins there were facing off in
the first debate. And while Ossoff tried to link Collins to the president, Collins appeared largely on defense during the hour-long debate.
Another heated debate played out in the state of Michigan.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIKE ROGERS (R-MI), SENATE CANDIDATE: What my friend here just wants to do is he's kind of like a glitchy A.I. chatbot is say the same thing over and
over and over again.
ABDUL EL-SAYED (D-MI), SENATE CANDIDATE: He says, I like to say the same thing, but he's done the same thing over and over and over again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACFARLANE: Well, there are plenty of personal jabs and insults there in Michigan as Republican Mike Rogers and Democrat Abdul El-Sayed clashed in
their first debate. Rogers repeatedly called El-Sayed a con man, while the Democratic candidate mocked Rogers as weak and cowardly.
And meanwhile, in Maine, longtime Republican Senator Susan Collins clashed with Democrat Troy Jackson. Their second debate covered a number of issues
including healthcare, Social Security, abortion access, and immigration.
[14:45:06]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TROY JACKSON (D-ME), SENATE CANDIDATE: Look what's happening because of the Iran war. She voted against it nine times before. She voted for it five
times when she had a chance to stop it before we got into this crisis. She could have stopped it.
SEN. SUSAN COLLINS (R-ME), SENATE INCUMBENT: It's under Troy's leadership that electric rates in Maine became the fourth highest in the nation. The
nation. What does that have to do with the Iran war?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACFARLANE: Well, President Trump is hitting the campaign trail again today this time in Syracuse, New York. Though New York does not have a hotly
contested Senate race, the president is hoping to boost the Republican candidate for governor and help Republicans in other congressional races.
Well, let's bring in CNN's Betsy Klein who has been tracking all of this for us. And Betsy, I mean, a trio of debates there which were at times very
personal and very heated, underscoring, I guess, just how fraught these midterms have become. And what do we make of all of this now that, you
know, in terms of takeaways just 25 days out from the Midterms?
BETSY KLEIN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Well, it is definitely fraught. And it's also notable that after this blitz of midterm travel that
has brought President Trump to a number of Republican strongholds, including Texas, Oklahoma, and Alabama, the president is now going to a
reliably blue state, New York.
This is his third time stumping in New York State and he is there on behalf of the Nassau County Executive Bruce Blakeman who is now the Republican
nominee for governor. This is a state where it was close -- closer than expected back in for the state's Democratic Governor Kathy Hochul. So,
Republicans there are hoping to build on that momentum. And even though Democrats outnumber Republicans two to one in New York, the goal of the
president's midterm travel more broadly, according to advisers, is to juice turnout among his MAGA base. And they want to drive voters that are their
supporters to the polls. At this point, they don't believe that they are going to be able to recruit new voters into their movement. And trips like
this, of course, could also have the opposite of the intended effect, and it could potentially encourage Democrats to get out and vote in protest.
We are also seeing some Republican candidates place strategic distance between themselves and this president who has a very low approval rating,
but Blakeman appears to be taking the opposite approach. He did an interview with the New York Times where he said people will understand when
I'm governor the fact that I have a relationship with the president and he can call and he -- the president answers the phone and that is good for the
state.
Now, Hochul, of course, has a considerable lead in the polls at this point and we are now 25 days away from this election. So, we'll be watching the
president's remarks there quite closely tonight, Christina.
MACFARLANE: Yes. And Betsy, just before you came to us, I mean, a matter of minutes really, there was an announcement on the new White House Press
Secretary. Just bring us up to speed on who it is.
KLEIN: Yes, President Trump has made his decision for the White House Press Secretary replacing Karoline Leavitt. It is going to be Katie Zacharia. He
has offered her the position. It's unclear at this stage whether Zacharia has accepted. But she is a conservative commentator who briefly worked in
the Trump administration. She was a Deputy Assistant Secretary at the Department of Homeland Security for about two months. And right now, she is
a senior communications adviser at the Trump Media and Technology Group, which is also part of Truth Social, the President's preferred social media
platform.
She has experience as a commentator on Newsmax and Fox News. And she first actually came to Washington as an intern during the Bush administration.
She's the mom of four young children and lives in California. And it was a surprise to some to see her name at the top of this list. Even just last
week, according to one source, she wasn't in the running. But we understand that President Trump met with her today in the Oval Office. And we're still
looking to learn a little bit more about the new White House Press Secretary, Katie Zacharia.
MACFARLANE: Yes. Well, we will wait to see if she accepts. It could be a face we're going to be seeing a lot of in the months to come. Thank you
very much for now for bringing us up to date. Thanks, Betsy.
All right, still to come tonight on the show, the creators of Claude tell users to mind their manners when speaking to the A.I. chatbot. So, does it
suggest we are edging closer to A.I. consciousness? We will discuss.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:52:16]
MACFARLANE: A.I. giant Anthropic is utilizing the old adage, if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. According to new
rules announced by the company, they are barring activity from users that is "abusing their A.I. chatbot Claude." Users are not allowed to exhibit
"sustained and needless abusive or cruel behavior towards the model." Well, the move is sparking further questions over how the company sees A.I.
consciousness.
CNN's Hadas Gold is joining us and has been across this. So, Hadas, what prompted Claude to make this move? And is it really clear what they mean
here by abusive or cruel behavior towards its models?
HADAS GOLD, CNN A.I. CORRESPONDENT: So, Anthropic has actually long studied model consciousness. They actually have like a whole model psych team that
does more than just, you know, see whether that Claude the chatbot will be offended by something. They're also looking into, you know, what makes the
model essentially think the way it thinks because that can affect things like will it deceive you if it's trying to, you know, accomplish something?
Will it try to cover its tracks like we've seen in some of these rogue A.I. agents?
And so, there is more to just this whole like, you know, woo-woo, the machines are alive and they're conscious because it can actually affect how
these models actually perform. And there is a fear and potentially a theory that if you are saying -- hurling a bunch of really terrible abusive things
at a model and then you ask it to do something else, the response that it gives might not be as good or as safe because remember these models are
trained on everything that you input into it that affects what it gives out to you because they are trained to accomplish the task. They are often
trained to do what you want them to do and they want to please.
And so, it's -- there is an element and there are some people who work in Anthropics, some people in the A.I. industry who believe that these A.I.
models may somewhat be conscious, but there is an actual legitimate scientific reasoning behind this.
And so, actually last August, the company announced that Claude would be able to end conversations that were persistently harmful and abusive
towards it as part of this sort of model welfare. And the new update still says that terminating the conversation will be the primary mechanism. But
according to this usage policy, anybody who really engages in really persistent abusive behavior towards the model, according to the usage
policy, just like anything else that you're not supposed to do with these models, such as creating bioweapons or planning attacks, then they could
potentially terminate a user from being able to access Claude.
So, it is a very interesting aspect of it. I'm not sure of any other company that has this in their usage policy about abuse towards the model.
And I do have to say not everybody in the industry agrees with this. Mustafa Suleyman, he is the head of A.I. for Microsoft, he responded on X
to this news with one of those melting emoji faces sort of -- it seems a bit sarcastic reacting to this.
But from Anthropic's point of view, I think for them it's sort of a better be safe than sorry situation regardless of whether A.I. is actually
conscious or not. But again, it's the it's the idea that if you are inputting, you know, it's garbage in, garbage out, if you're inputting a
bunch of terrible abusive things into the model that can affect what it will then output back to the users, whether the user who is abusive to it
or potentially to other users who may be using the model later on.
[14:55:42]
MACFARLANE: OK. Well, I think you've succeeded in convincing me this might be necessary. Hadas Gold, thank you very much.
And finally, this hour we're turning to giant tortoises in the Seychelles who are proving that slow and steady does indeed win the race. A new survey
has revealed the number of giant tortoises now outnumbers the number of people in the African nation. There were less than a thousand of the
reptiles left in the 19th century after being on the verge of extinction. Now they've raced or crawled towards something of a comeback. There's an
estimated 180,000 of the Gentle Giants on the island. Love to see it.
Thank you for watching. Stay with CNN. I'm going to be back with "WHAT WE KNOW" after this quick break. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
