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Laura Coates Live
Harris Punches Back At Trump; Project 2025 Director Steps Down; Laura Coates Interviews Mehdi Hasan; Iranian Media: Hamas Political Leader Is Killed In Iran. Aired 11p-12a ET
Aired July 30, 2024 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[23:00:00]
LAURA COATES, CNN HOST: Georgia on her mind. Kamala Harris makes the case in Atlanta, throwing down a challenge to Donald Trump, all while trying to take the wind out of his immigration sales. Will it work?
Plus, the case being made for Minnesota Governor Tim Walz as the V.P., the pros, the cons, and could he be the one we see unveiled next Tuesday? Ask it from a friend, tonight on "Laura Coates Live."
All right, so forgive me, maybe I've been to too many of my son's basketball practices these days, but you know that saying that the best offense is a good defense? Well, that might explain what we're seeing from Vice President Kamala Harris on the campaign trail because tonight, she tried to flip the script on one of her most vulnerable issues in this election, immigration, on the same day the Trump campaign put out this ad, dubbing her the so-called border czar and laying the problems at the border at her feet exclusively. Harris tonight tried to, well, swat that attack down.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He tanked, tanked the bipartisan deal because he thought it would help him win an election. Donald Trump does not care about border security. He only cares about himself. I will bring back the border security bill that Donald Trump killed, and I will sign it into law.
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: Now, remember, that bipartisan Senate bill would have given the president the power to shut down the border once crossings hit a certain threshold. It would have also made it much harder to get asylum. But Republicans, you recall, said it wasn't good enough.
Now, Harris's line on immigration played very well with the friendly Democratic crowd there for her in Atlanta. But those, of course, aren't the independent voters that she needs to win over in this incredibly tight race. And, you know, poll after poll has shown that voters think that the Biden-Harris administration is who failed on the border. Now, the question is, will her point the finger at Trump make voters want to fill in the bubble for her? That we'll have to see. You know, one thing is very clear tonight: Harris is not backing down from this fight. We've got exhibit A of that very notion this evening when she almost taunted Trump for his refusal to commit to debating her.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: Donald --
(APPLAUSE)
-- I do hope you'll reconsider to meet me on the debate stage --
(APPLAUSE)
-- because as the saying goes, if you've got something to say --
(APPLAUSE)
-- say it to my face.
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: Now, we all know that that T-shirt just wrote itself at the DNC, right? Well, joining me now, two men who were at tonight's rally, former mayor of Atlanta, Kasim Reed, and also former Republican lieutenant governor of Georgia, Geoff Duncan. Good to see both you, gentlemen, this evening.
Let me begin with you here, Geoff, because you and I have talked about this in the past. You endorsed Harris for president, but you have said you don't see eye to eye on every issue. And tonight, she went on the offensive on the issue of immigration. Is that the case she needs to be making on this issue?
GEOFF DUNCAN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Absolutely. I think, you know, we have to recognize that the 10% in the middle are still going to determine who wins this presidential election. And if every room she walks into requires her to try to win a primary each and every night with just playing to the base, she's not going to win the hearts and minds of that 10%.
But if she continues to do what she's doing and talk about those tough issues that were hard for the Biden campaign to talk about, inflation, immigration, if she's able to talk about those in articulate way, yeah, she's going to capture the hearts and minds because Donald Trump, he can't speak to those folks. He lost them so long ago with his -- with his rhetoric and anger-filled responses.
COATES: Hmm. It's interesting point to think about not preaching to one's choir within 100 days of the actual election.
Mayor Reed, let me bring you into this because there was an interview tonight on Fox News. You know, Trump, he was asked how Black women would fare under a second Trump administration, and he pivoted right back to Harris. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If you have her, you're going to have very unsafe streets. You're going to have millions of people coming in, taking your job and your husband's job. Remember this, again, I said it before and I'll say it again, Black people, when all of these people are coming in, the ones that are losing the biggest are the Black population. Now, not only in terms of job, but in terms of crime. People are being killed by these migrants coming in from jails, prisons, and gangs from South America and from all over the world. They're coming from all over the world.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[23:05:00]
COATES: That was yesterday's question. I believe it had to do with a Trump administration, a second one. He pivoted to Harris instead. What's your response, mayor?
KASIM REED, FORMER ATLANTA MAYOR: I mean, my response is if Trump is trying to get black women, he's losing the campaign. Black women are gone. If you had been in the hall tonight, if you've been in a barbershop, if you've been in a grocery store, the most aggressive and passionate supporters of Kamala Harris are black women. So, he can spend all of the time he wants with those kinds of stunts.
She's going to continue to do what she did tonight, make it very plain. It wasn't the Republican Party that killed the border bill. It was Donald Trump who killed the border bill. So, she's going to do what the lieutenant governor said. She's going to talk about issues in rooms where you wouldn't traditionally have a conversation about the border in a room -- in a room full of 10,000 Democrats.
So, if the Republicans want to spend their time with these old tropes and stereotypes going after Black women, they're going to have a very bad night on election night. They're gone.
COATES: Well, to that point, I mean, some thought she might shy away, lieutenant governor, from this conversation. People believed it was the Achilles heel. She seems to be going on the offense and saying, I'm right here. You want to talk about immigration, let's talk about immigration. But Georgia is a state that everyone has been watching. Biden won it by the slimmest of margins in 2020. And the latest polls show that Harris is actually trailing Trump. Does she have a realistic shot at trying to rebuild the Biden coalition and winning Georgia?
DUNCAN: Yeah, the great reset has hit Georgia, too. This is a this is a neck and neck race here in Georgia. And it's going to be up to that 10%. Can she convince the suburbs that she's worthy to take the leadership role? And even though we don't align and the suburbs don't align, you know, one for one on all of her policies, but do they have an adult in the room? And I think that's really what we're looking for, is adults in the room.
You know, there's one common thread in Georgia to folks that lose elections, and they seem to be the ones -- Republicans, that is -- seems to be the ones that attach their wagons to Donald Trump. We have eight statewide constitutional officers that are Republicans, large Republican majorities in the state Senate and state House, but two U.S. senators and the last presidential pick was a Democrat because Donald Trump had his fingers on it.
Look, he has done a lot of tough stuff here in this state. He has lied to people. He has caused a lot of heartache, certainly for me and my family and others. He's got no place winning this. It's certainly a neck and neck race.
COATES: Well, Mayor Reed, you know, my colleague, Ryan Young, he was speaking to some Black male voters in Georgia, this is before tonight's rally --
REED: Uh-hmm.
COATES: -- about their concerns that they expressed about Vice President Harris on top of that ticket. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNKNOWN: If you don't say specifically what your agenda is for Black people, specifically Black men, that's incarcerated, you're not getting my vote.
UNKNOWN: I want to hear messages from me that's not talking to me through the language of social justice. You know, I would like for her to speak more to Black men, you know, because you can't just win on the Black women vote.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: Hmm, this is interesting to me, in particular, mayor. Is she failing to address Black men specifically? Is her message too narrowly focused or is this a factor of something else?
REED: A young entrepreneur who is a graduate of Morehouse College introduced her tonight. I was in the barbershop on Saturday. Black men are going to vote for Kamala Harris because we have Black moms, we have Black wives, we have Black daughters.
So once again, if you look at the data, the enthusiasm gap and the polling gap that President Biden was experiencing is going away and fading. And it's so much bigger and so much deeper than these talking points. It's about looking your grandmother in the face, looking your wife in the face, looking your daughter in the face, and having the opportunity to elect a competent, qualified woman president.
Kamala Harris is going to win the state of Georgia. Mark my words. And she's going to win because Georgians don't like Republicans like Donald Trump. They like Republicans like Geoff Duncan. That's why Brian Kemp is governor, that's why Brian Kemp beat David Perdue, because Republicans like Donald Trump and J.D. Vance don't play in Georgia.
And every time they try to get these out of touch individuals like Herschel Walker and others, they lose. If they had gotten somebody like the lieutenant governor, we'd have -- be having a different conversation. They have these weird, extreme people, and Georgia Republicans don't like it, and they're going to lose.
COATES: Mayor Kasim Reed, Geoff Duncan, thank you both so much for your insight tonight.
DUNCAN: Thanks, Laura.
[23:10:00]
COATES: Well, at tonight's rally, Harris, she criticized Project 2025, which is the conservative blueprint for overhauling the government, among other things. It was developed for a possible second Donald Trump presidency. You know, now, the man who is leading the way on this, Paul Dans, he actually stepped down today after facing criticism from both Democrats and the Trump campaign.
Trump's campaign advisers writing in a statement, "Reports of Project 2025's demise would be greatly welcomed and should serve as notice to anyone or any group trying to misrepresent their influence with President Trump and his campaign -- it will not end well for you."
Now, it should be noted, at least 140 former Trump administration officials have actually contributed to Project 2025, and it included detailed policy proposals Trump could put into place on day one and built a list of potential hires to staff a new Trump administration. Those aren't going anywhere. Group behind the entire project is the Heritage Foundation and, of course, they will also continue on. Now, some of the policies that were proposed have actually been shutting down the education department, tightening White House supervision of the DOJ, and also large-scale immigration raids.
With me now, former special assistant to President Biden, Meghan Hays, and Republican strategist Matt Gorman. Good to have both of you here tonight. Let me begin here, Matt, with you. Dans actually served in the first Trump administration, and he previously said that he would actually serve in the White House if Trump won again. And he told Steve Bannon -- I'm quoting here -- that Project 2025 was -- quote -- "going to be a D-Day invasion plan." So, can you separate the policy from the candidate?
MATT GORMAN, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: I think Dans should have known probably one of the first rules of working for Donald Trump, which is you don't try and make yourself bigger than the principal. One thing that has been common, if you've been in Donald Trump's orbit and been cast away many times, is because they've either gotten too much attention or that they've tried to make themselves look like the brains of the operation. And I think we have yet another person here who has fallen for that same thing.
COATES: Is that what's going on, though, or is he getting too big or was it now too clear to people who were leaning in what the project was about?
MEGHAN HAYS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think it's a little bit of both here. I think that the policies are becoming more extreme. And now with Kamala at the top of the ticket, it's a different race. So, he needs to draw it in. He needs those independent voters. A lot of these policies are extreme, and I just don't think that the voters are going to go for that. But I also agree with you that when people become too big and they become the story, Trump doesn't like that.
COATES: Well, now that this is disbanded and he's distancing himself with that 10-foot pole that many people have in Washington, D.C., how are they going to pivot in the Harris campaign?
HAYS: I think that they're going to stick to the issues. They're going to start focusing on things that are going to attract those independent voters, reproductive rights. I think the enthusiasm, the money they're raising, the organizers and the organization that they are setting up, and the people who are now getting behind this campaign, I think that momentum going into a V.P. pick, going into the convention, is really great for the Democratic Party. And I think people are enthusiastic about politics. I think it's giving people a place to go. They didn't feel like they had a place to go when it was Biden versus Trump.
COATES: You know what's very sobering in any conversation that gives you a little bit of sugar high? Immigration. This is the universal issue everyone has been talking about. And today, Harris released a brand-new ad touting her tougher stance on immigration. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNKNOWN (voice-over): On the border, the choice is simple. Kamala Harris supports increasing the number of Border Patrol agents. Donald Trump blocked a bill to increase the number of Border Patrol agents. Kamala Harris supports investing in new technology to block fentanyl from entering the country. Donald Trump blocked funding for technology to block fentanyl from entering the country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: Now, of course, this ad came a couple hours after Trump released his own ad attacking what is this Achilles heel. What do you make of it, Matt, in the way that the Harris campaign is going about it, saying, no, no, it's like your mother says, you point the finger at me, there are three pointing back at you, and the three pointing back at Trump is this Senate border bill?
GORMAN: We have 30 more because she wanted to start from scratch on ICE. She wanted to decriminalize illegal immigration. So, I'll tell you, we feel confident on that issue. She needs some response, though, right? She can't just not talk about it. But immigration, and Meghan, you and I have talked about this a lot, immigration and abortion are often, I think, two sides of the same coin when it comes to this election. There's abortion, which the right is leery to talk about. The left wants to push immigration, which is vice versa. And it's really going to be a battle for those single-issue voters, those folks who are going to crawl over broken glass to vote on one of those issues. Whichever one wins is going to go extremely far in telling us who's going to win the election.
HAYS: But I do think we agree here that the first person to start talking about the economy and making good sense on the economy is where these people who are not single-issue voters are going to go.
GORMAN: Yeah.
HAYS: And I think that's where a lot of these independents are going to lie. You know, the single-issue people are on the margins --
GORMAN: Yeah.
HAYS: -- but the economy is really where both campaigns need to start to focus.
GORMAN: I agree.
COATES: I wonder, the two sides of those coin, what's going to be more impactful? And, you know, talking about Trump, we heard the Kamala Harris ad, but he went on a radio show where he and the host -- well, the host called Harris's husband, I mean, second gentleman, Doug Emhoff, who is Jewish -- quote -- "a crappy Jew," his words.
[23:15:07]
Trump seemed to agree in that nodding fashion, and he repeated a statement that he has said before, actually, about Harris. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP (voice-over): Number one, she doesn't like Israel. Number two, she doesn't like Jewish people. You know it. I know it. Everybody knows it and nobody wants to say it.
She doesn't like Jewish people. She doesn't like Israel. That's the way it is. And that's the way it's always going to be.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: What does he gain by this line of attack?
GORMAN: Yeah, I know. My advice is don't overthink kind of this. This is off.
(LAUGHTER)
This is back to -- what I mean by this, don't overthink kind of the issues on this, right? Go back to what -- we're running the campaign on -- we're going to run on June 26th, the day before the CNN debate, right? Immigration, crime, the economy. Don't get in --
COATES: A thousand years ago now. June 26th, my God.
GORMAN: Can you believe that? Oh, my God.
COATES: Yes!
GORMAN: So, don't overthink it too much, right? I think -- I go back to those kind of mainstay issues. If you're a Republican, it's safer ground. And you could add in Harris's stances that she has changed since she ran for president in 2019, 2020. It's a little more fruitful.
COATES: Inaccurate hyperbole, though.
HAYS: Yeah. And I just also think attacking people's religion, if you're Jewish or not Jewish, nobody wants to be attacked like that. It's really just kind of disgusting language. Her husband is Jewish. It's just not an appropriate attack on her. But, I mean, I don't think he knows what attack is going to land, so he is throwing everything at the wall to see if this will stick.
COATES: I don't think this one will, but we'll see. Meghan, Matt, nice to have both of you on. Thank you.
Well, the Harris campaign already scheduling events with her running mate, even though we don't know who the running mate is going to be. She hasn't announced it yet. My next guest says it isn't rocket science. Here's the not overthinking it part, go with Minnesota Governor Tim Walz. Mehdi Hassan joins me to make his case for why, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:21:19]
COATES: This just in, CNN projects Republican Kari Lake has won the Senate republican primary in Arizona. She'll be taking on Democrat Ruben Gallego in November in what will be a critical Senate race.
Well, mark your calendars because Kamala Harris and her running mate are set to kick off a swing state blitz in Philadelphia this coming Tuesday. I know you're asking, who will that running mate be? Well, CNN learning that Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro, Arizona Senator Mark Kelly, and Minnesota Governor Tim Walz are the top contenders. Secretary Pete Buttigieg and Kentucky Governor Andy Beshear, though not top of the list, are actually still under consideration.
Well, here on "Laura Coates Live," we've been covering the different potential V.P. picks. And tonight, it's Minnesota Governor Tim Walz's turn. Here is Walz earlier tonight explaining how he is trying to dismantle the republican ticket's power.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. TIM WALZ (D-MN): This is the emperor's wearing no clothes. And once you take that away from him, it opens up the space to start asking the questions. This is about making sure you take away this perceived power he has. And in most cases with bullies, he doesn't have that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: Well, joining me now to make the case for Walz as V.P., journalist and editor-in-chief of Zeteo, Mehdi Hasan. He's also the author of the new column, "Why Kamala Harris Should Pick Tim Walz as Her Running Mate?" To the point, Mehdi, nice to have you on. Thank you so much. I mean, you've been kind of Walz-pilled, as they say, like so many who are now backing the Minnesota governor for V.P. Why do you think he should be the one?
MEHDI HASAN, JOURNALIST, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF OF ZETEO: Laura, thanks for having me. I think it's a great question. Look, a lot of us have been Walz-pilled in recent days because we've been watching endless clips of this guy just on cable, on CNN, on network television, but also going back months and months to when he was signing in free school breakfast and lunches, going on roller coasters with his daughter. The guy is super likable, super charismatic, super eloquent, knows how to take the fight to the GOP, and has a great record.
And Laura, I think the point of a vice presidential pick for me should be twofold. Number one, Kamala Harris needs an attack dog, someone who can take the fight to the Republican Party, to Vance, to Trump, to MAGA. And number two, someone who can mobilize the base.
She has done a great job of getting enthusiasm back in the Democratic Party. You need to build on that. You don't want any kind of candidate who's going to demobilize that base. And I think Walz wins on both counts. He's great at taking on the Republicans. He's America's fun uncle. He's amiable. He's snarky. He has a way with words. Tim Kaine, he ain't. And I don't think the Democrats want another Tim Kaine from 2016.
So, he's great at all of that stuff that I love. I'm a guy who loves a good debate, a good rhetorical fight. He's great at that. And his record is amazing in Minnesota. This is a guy with a one seat majority in the state Senate, got a child tax credit done, got education spending, health spending, infrastructure spending, housing spending, gun control, codification of abortion rights. The list goes on and on. He did it in one legislative session.
COATES: Hmm.
HASAN: So, Midwestern governor, fun guy, 24-year veteran of the Army National Guard, and he took his high school football team to its first state championship.
(LAUGHTER)
Put him on the ticket. What are we waiting for?
COATES: Man, you describe Minnesota nice and now a football story. There's a slow clap coming from someone in somewhere in the world. Let me ask you, Mehdi, about that particular record as governor, because, as you said, attack dog is one of the criteria, you want someone who can echo the message. But he has included a number of so-called progressive initiatives. Well, progressive initiatives, including increasing spending for welfare programs, legalizing recreational marijuana, implementing universal gun background checks. Just named a few.
[23:25:00]
And you've named several of them as well. You know that Harris is already being labeled this radical liberal label, whether that's true to you or not. Does -- these different legislative initiatives, would that help or harm the ticket based on what he has done?
HASAN: It's a great question. Jake Tapper asked -- your colleague, Jake, asked Tim Walz a question earlier. He had a great response, which is why I'm starting to love this guy. He goes, am I a monster for wanting to give kids free breakfast and lunches?
(LAUGHTER)
I just think great. Bring it on. If the Republicans want to go after his record and say, wow, he's the evil monster who gave free school lunches and meals, he's the guy who got abortion rights done, he's the guy who got gun control done, remember, 80%, 90% of Americans, including a majority of Republicans, support background checks. It is more popular than apple pie. So, go off to his record. Good luck with that. He's a Midwestern governor. He's an army veteran. He's from a rural town. Go for it. Good luck to you. I mean, he's -- he is from -- he ticks so many boxes.
And here's an important point: You know, people say, progressive, progressive. The democratic base is pretty progressive right now. One of the problems Biden has is, that you had, is that young people, Black people, Arab Americans in Michigan, labor unions, were not infused on multiple levels, including on Gaza. And what Walz brings is -- it's a candidacy with very little baggage compared to Josh Shapiro, Mark Kelly, impressive figures from key swing states, but have baggage when it comes to labor unions, when it comes to education policy, when it comes to Gaza, of course.
COATES: And, of course, thinking about that issue and the latter of them, this has been a problem in terms of the undecided vote, the uncommitted vote, for example --
HASAN: Yeah.
COATES: -- in places like Michigan or also in my, actually, home state of Minnesota when you think about this. But you've mentioned seeing him all over the airwaves. I mean, we've seen, frankly, multiple V.P. contenders who were hit in those airwaves. Here's a little bit of a sample of how Walz has been attacking Republicans and notably kicking off the, well, the weird trend. Listen.
HASAN: Yeah.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WALZ: These are weird people on the other side. They want to take books away. They want to be in your exam room.
Have you ever seen the guy laugh? That seems very weird to me, that -- that an adult can go through six and a half years of being in the public eye. If he has laughed, it's at someone, not with someone.
How often in the world do you make that bastard wake up afterwards and know that a Black woman kicked his ass and sent him on the road?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: That is what you describe --
HASAN: Oh, yeah.
COATES: -- as Minnesota nice people, in case you were wondering what that phrase really means. He did tell Anderson, by the way, that he's not calling Trump supporters weird. Just Trump and Vance. I do wonder --
HASAN: Yes.
COATES: -- because there's been a lot of criticism about this phrase. Is this the ammunition to be used as the new deplorables comment?
HASAN: No, not at all. And there hasn't been lots of criticism. Laura, the only people criticizing are the weirdos. Look, the reality is that the phrase works.
(LAUGHTER)
The fact is bothering Vivek Ramaswamy so much. And Donald Trump and J.D. Vance tells you that it's working. And look, I have waited years, Laura, for an elected national Democrat to go on T.V. and talk about Donald Trump in the terms we just heard from Tim Walz. That is what Kamala Harris needs on the ticket. She doesn't need a Mark Kelly who in Arizona has to say stuff like my Republican colleagues are wonderful people, they work very hard.
This is not the election. This is the election where you need a fighter, someone who can call out the MAGA weirdos and dangerous folks, the leaders on the other side. Otherwise, yeah, you will end up in a Tim Kaine situation. I would not want to see us back in a Tim Kaine situation, with the greatest respect to Tim Kaine, but it's not the right role.
COATES: Mehdi Hasan, you need a mug that says what you just described. I have a whole series of things to populate that mug for you. Mehdi Hasan, thank you so much to be here tonight.
HASAN: Thanks, Laura.
COATES: There's some breaking news into CNN, reports that the political leader of Hamas has been killed in Iran's capital. We'll have more right after a short break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [23:33:08]
COATES: Breaking news, a major escalation in the Middle East as Hamas and Iranian state media say the political leader of Hamas was killed in Tehran. So far, there's no comment from the Israeli military. But this comes just hours after the IDF said they killed a leader of Hezbollah in Beirut. CNN's Paula Hancock is live in Abu Dhabi. Paula, what more are you learning?
PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, at this point, it's a statement from Hamas itself and also from Iranian state media, and they are quoting the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps, saying that Ismail Haniyeh, the political leader of Hamas, has been killed in Tehran, in the Iranian capital.
Now, at this point, there are no details of exactly what happened. We know he was killed, according to the reports from state media, with his bodyguard as well. We understand that he was in Tehran for the inauguration of the new Iranian president. Now, that happened on Tuesday. He was still in Tehran. We don't know the exact timing of when this event took place. There has been no claim of responsibility, but most suspicions are falling on Israel at this point. We have asked Israeli authorities for comment on this.
Israel has made it very clear that it considers all of the leaders of Hamas to be a target since the October 7th attacks by Hamas in Israel last year. And we have seen a number of the leaders be assassinated. The military number two in Gaza, for example, Mohammed Deif, was killed recently, and we know that they are trying to get more leaders. So, this is a significant development.
[23:35:00]
Ismail Haniyeh has been part of Hamas since the 80s. He is a very significant figure within this group. We know that he took over as the political leader in 2017. Much of his time after that was spent outside of Gaza. He has been living in Doha, Qatar. He has also been free to travel around some other countries, for example, Iran. He has been in Turkey as well. But Israel did say that it did consider all of these leaders to be a target since October 7th.
So, it's -- at this point, it is a significant development. Israel has not claimed responsibility, made any comment, which is not unusual when it comes to some of these attacks we have seen in the past. Now, we heard a statement as well from Hamas, calling it a -- quote -- "Zionist raid" on a residence in Tehran. So, they're very clear about who they believe was responsible for this.
Now, Haniyeh himself had joined Hamas back in the 80s during the first intifada, and he was a very vocal, a very public spokesperson and political leader for the group. We do know that Israel had been going after his family in Gaza since October 7th. In fact, just one month after those Hamas attacks, they did target his residence in Gaza City. We know they have also targeted his family. A number of his -- his children have been killed in Israeli airstrikes since that attack. But as we have been speaking for just recent hours, an assassination talked about in Beirut of a Hezbollah leader. The fact we are now talking about the political leader of Hamas potentially being assassinated in Tehran, it is a very significant development.
COATES: You're describing him as this political leader. What does his death mean to leadership now within Hamas and is there someone who would take the place of this man?
HANCOCKS: Well, at this point, given what is happening in Gaza, the political leadership and the military leadership really does not have too much communication. We know that Yahya Sinwar is in Gaza or believed to be in Gaza at this point. Israeli officials believe that he is in the tunnel network, potentially, hiding from Israeli airstrikes. He is the number one target that they have at this point.
But when you're looking at, for example, the negotiations of a possible hostage release deal, a ceasefire deal, the negotiations really focus on Yahya Sinwar. So, he is the key man in Gaza at this point to try and get that deal done.
But we have heard a lot from Ismail Haniyeh as well. He was presumably in touch with the military leadership. But given the nature of what is happening, given the war in Gaza at this point, the political and military leadership is certainly quite separate, it appears, and communication would be extremely difficult.
But we have seen that a number of political leaders have been assassinated in the past, and there has always been someone to take their place. For example, Sheikh Yassin, the founder of Hamas, Ismail Haniyeh was very close to him and was one of his assistants, and then Sheikh Yassin was assassinated.
So, this is not unusual when it comes to these groups. Certainly, with Hamas, we have seen a number of leaders be assassinated by Israel. So, it would not be a surprise to see another political figure emerge. But at this point, obviously, the focus for Israel is also on the military leadership in Gaza.
COATES: Paula, thank you so much. I want to bring in senior editor at Bloomberg, Bobby Ghosh. He's on the phone. Bobby, what is your reaction to this news?
BOBBY GHOSH, SENIOR EDITOR, BLOOMBERG (via telephone): Well, it is quite a spectacular achievement by Israel. We're still waiting for all the details, of course. But a strike within Iran to kill the top political leader of Hamas is quite an achievement. It will, of course, be a big shock not just to Hamas itself, but to its main sponsor, which is Iran. A tremendous embarrassment for Iran that he should be killed within Iranian soil, if all those details turn out to be true. The fact that the information is coming from Hamas suggests that it must be true. But we will find out more about the nature of the operation.
[23:40:00] It's quite -- you know, we've seen that Israel has capacity to strike within Iran, but usually it has struck comparatively lesser targets. This is the biggest and most sort of senior person that has been taken out in this way.
It is a big hit. It is a big hit to Hamas and it will basically throw a lot of the negotiations that have been taking place over a ceasefire in Gaza, the release of Israeli hostages. It'll probably throw all of those talks into a loop for now. There will probably be no progress on that front. But I think for the moment, Israel and Prime Minister Netanyahu will take the credit for having taken out one of the most senior and most committed enemies.
COATES: The fact that it happened on Iranian soil, what does that do in terms of Iran's potential response, noting what you described as a shock and potential embarrassment?
GHOSH (via telephone): Well, it is quite something. It is a -- it is a huge embarrassment for Iran to have its -- to have this happened on Iranian soil. I mean, he had -- he had gone there because -- to attend the swearing-in of the new Iranian president. And so, therefore, it would have been regarded as a guest of the state. To have such a prominent figure killed by your sworn enemy on your home soil, that is -- that is quite a blow for Iran and for its prestige, particularly among its network of proxy militias like Hamas and Hezbollah and the Houthis in Yemen.
The leadership of all these groups routinely go to Tehran. Tehran is one of the few places in the world where they have felt like they could be seen in the open in ways that they dare not, sometimes even in their own countries. So, for him to be killed there is quite something.
COATES: Bobby, it hasn't even been a week since Benjamin Netanyahu visited Congress, met with the president, vice president, and presidential candidate Donald Trump. How do you think the White House will respond to this and react?
GOSH (via telephone): Well, if passed is any indication, the White House will say that Israel has a right to defend itself and probably leave it at that. It will point out that Ismail Haniyeh is a leader of -- the leader of a terrorist group, a group that the United States recognizes as a terrorist group, is a fair target. I think what it won't say is it's quite relieved that this should take place in Iran and not in Qatar, where Haniyeh has been based for some time now. Qatar is an ally, a crucial ally of the United States, and it would be awkward for the U.S. if Israel had sort of mounted a military operation in Qatar.
So, I think, you know, there will be a sense that it could have been a lot worse for the U.S. In general, there will also be, of course, some concern that the objective of getting a ceasefire over Gaza is now probably at the very least postponed, if not completely destroyed. So, there will be mixed signals, I think.
COATES: Yes. Thank you, Bobby. Stand by, please. I want to go back to Paula. I understand that Israel is reacting tonight. What are you learning, Paula?
HANCOCKS: Yes, Laura, we did ask the Israeli military about this as soon as the reports came in. And what we're hearing from the IDF is that they -- quote -- "don't respond to reports in the foreign media." Now, that is a response that we have heard frequently from the Israeli authorities when it comes to these kinds of assassinations or these kinds of killings overseas. And it's something that they potentially don't want to confirm at this point, but itis something that is widely believed to be Israel's doing.
So, what we have seen in the past is that Israel doesn't admit to these kinds of attacks. But, of course, there is an expectation that they were behind it. They have been very clear in saying that they considered all the leadership of Hamas and all of Hamas to be a target after October 7th attacks in Israel, and this is -- this is certainly what they have been trying to do.
[23:45:07]
It is something we have seen them do in recent months. The military number two in Gaza, they believe they killed recently. There have been a number of other top Hamas officials within Gaza that they have killed. But, of course, the fact that this is a political leader outside of Gaza is a very significant development. Laura?
COATES: Bobby, let me get to you on this. I mean, just to Paula's point, it has been very clear that Israeli leadership has said that they will hold all of Hamas leadership to account. What's your reaction that there has not been a confirmation of what is widely believed to be the responsible party here?
GHOSH (via telephone): Well, Israel doesn't really need to confirm it at this point. And as you just said there, it has been Israel's M.O in the past not to openly acknowledge or not to openly take credit for operations deep within Iranian territory. So, I think, you know, if Hamas is saying it themselves, that's more than sufficient for Israel. I think it does not really need at this point to beat its chest and take credit.
I think, you know, we will see, despite whether or not the Israeli government makes a formal statement to that effect. I think there will be celebrations in Israel nonetheless. Everybody will know that this was an Israeli strike, and we'll take satisfaction from that.
COATES: CNN international diplomatic editor Nic Robertson is joining us as well. Nick, what are your sources telling you in the region?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR (via telephone): They're saying that this will make the current tensions and situation worse at the moment. They believe, despite the fact that Israel has not claimed this, they do see this and interpret this as something that's going to make Prime Minister Netanyahu look stronger on the home front, not only the ability to reach into Iran and apparently kill Ismail Haniyeh, but also to be able to reach and accurately target in Beirut less than 24 hours earlier, it appears, the number two in Hezbollah. So, this is a moment for -- you know, from looking at this in the region, that this makes Netanyahu and Israel's statements that it will reach and take out its enemies, and this makes it very credible, but it does definitely, from their perspective, make the situation less stable.
Obviously, a strike inside Iranian territory like this, that is not, let's say, a scientist or a lesser known figure, but a very senior figure in Hamas, apparently very close to the Iranians, and we don't quite know all the circumstances, but this is certainly going to be an embarrassing moment for the Iranians. And we know that, obviously, the tensions with Iran earlier this year led to the, you know, crossing the Rubicon, if you will, for the first time, both sides directly acknowledging significant strikes, missile strikes against each other, particularly Iran's attack on Israel.
So, at the moment for the region, this is a moment, I think, where they'll be watching to see Iran's response, but definitely from the source that I've just contacted with, who believes absolutely that Israel is responsible for this, they do believe that this will make the situation definitely more tense in the immediate period.
COATES: Nic, please stand by for us here. We've got CNN political analyst and foreign policy analyst Barak Ravid. He is on the phone. Barak, what is your reaction to what we're learning tonight?
BARAK RAVID, CNN FOREIGN POLICY ANALYST (via telephone): Well, I think this is, first, the most significant Israeli operation against Hamas since October 7th. Ismail Haniyeh is, you know, militarily, he's not that significant, but politically, he's the -- you know, he's the political leader of Hamas and, you know, he won the internal elections within Hamas, you know, to get this job. He's in charge of Hamas's international relations, and he's the key interlocutor for the Egyptian Qatari mediators on the Gaza hostage and ceasefire deal. So, his assassination will have significant influence on those negotiations.
COATES: The fact that he is the key interlocutor, I mean, obviously, we've also heard about a Hezbollah leader also being killed.
[23:50:01]
Is there some notion that these are either, A, coordinated, and B, do you agree with the assessment of some people who have spoken tonight about this being the end, temporarily at least, of any conversations in terms of hostage negotiation release?
RAVID (via telephone): You know, in the immediate term, for sure. But I think that, first, you know, Ismail Haniyeh, as a very senior leader within Hamas, the Israeli government sees him as one of those responsible for October 7th. Therefore, the Israelis said from day one, we will haunt down all those responsible for October 7th. So, this assassination, in a way, is just a matter of when and not matter of if. You know, it just happened after 10 months, after October 7th.
But I think that what at least Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu thinks, and he says it publicly, is that more and more military pressure on Hamas will lead this group to maybe be more flexible in the negotiations over the hostage deal. Until now, at least, it doesn't seem that, you know, that it delivered a deal. Hamas -- the military pressure did make Hamas change some of its positions, but not enough to get a deal.
COATES: Barak, this is just in from CNN's Alex Marquardt. The White House has seen the reports of Hamas's political leader, Ismail Haniyeh, being killed in Iran, a spokesperson said, but they declined to immediately comment further. Barak, how do you think the White House is processing this news?
RAVID (via telephone): Well, at least, you know, several White House officials I spoke to were stunned by those -- by those reports, when the Hamas statement came out. At least for now, from the people I spoke to, it doesn't seem that the Israelis gave a heads up to the U.S. At least that's what I heard from people I spoke to. But, you know, there's still something that needs to be, you know, further checked.
But I think that it is definitely, if, let's say, if the Biden administration saw the airstrike in Beirut today and the killing of Hezbollah's top military leader as something which was, you know, completely legitimate, I think that, at least, this operation in Tehran, I think people in the --
COATES: We've lost -- there you go. We hear you again, Barak. Finish your point, please. Go ahead.
RAVID (via telephone): Yeah, I think that the administration sees this operation in Tehran as much more complicated and as something that might create much more tensions in the region, although I think that, and I hear it from almost every U.S. official, the Biden administration definitely saw Haniyeh as somebody that needs to be brought to justice, either by killing him or by bringing him to -- or by arresting him and bringing him to trial or something, which was obviously not going to happen.
So, I don't think anybody in the Biden administration feels sorry that Ismail Haniyeh was killed tonight, but I think that for many in the administration, they now see the hostage and ceasefire deal that they've been working on for a long time getting further away.
COATES: Well, we have not yet heard directly from the White House on this issue and their response to this. Please stand by, Barak. This is coming after we are learning about an assassination of Hezbollah's top military commander in an airstrike in Beirut. Ben Wedeman is with us live in Beirut. Ben, this is coming after this retaliatory strike of sorts. What are you hearing?
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): Well, this news is just coming out here in Lebanon as well, so we're not yet hearing much in the way of a reaction. But, obviously, it's going to be sending jitters around other organizations that are affiliated with Iran and that, for instance, Hezbollah, which lost one of its senior military commanders today in an Israeli strike. Not today, actually yesterday.
In Beirut, it's going to realize that, clearly, if it was indeed an Israeli strike or raid that killed Ismail Haniyeh in Tehran, that their security has been breached, that the Israelis have information about the whereabouts of not only Hezbollah military commanders, but are able to get somebody as senior as Ismail Haniyeh, the political leader of Hamas, assassinate him in the heart of the Iranian capital.
[23:55:14]
This really underscores that they are much more vulnerable than they suspected. If the Israelis are able to kill somebody as senior as Ismail Haniyeh in Iran and Fouad Shukur, the Hezbollah leader who was killed in Beirut yesterday, that the Israelis can get to people wherever they are.
Now, it's obviously going to complicate the situation immensely in terms of the ceasefire negotiations. It was just this Sunday that various interlocutors from Qatar, Israel, United States, Egypt and elsewhere met in Rome, trying to move forward the ceasefire negotiations that would have led to a cessation of fighting in Gaza as well as possible release of Israeli hostages in Gaza. It's hard to imagine that those are going to go ahead under these circumstances.
COATES: Ben Wedemann, thank you. We're breaking this news this evening as the key interlocutor and a Hamas political leader killed in Iran. We're going to take a quick break. There's much more ahead on CNN.
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