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Laura Coates Live

Trump Stuns Own Party with Cabinet Pics; Mike Tyson will Fight Jake Paul in a Boxing Match. Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired November 14, 2024 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[23:00:00]

LAURA COATES, CNN HOST AND SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: You know, they say that in politics, you're only as good as your word. Donald Trump made a whole lot of promises and gave his word during the 2024 campaign. Remember this one?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT-ELECT: Robert F. Kennedy cares more about human beings and health and the environment than anybody, and he's going to be absolute. Having him is such a great honor. I've been friends of his for a long time. And I'm going to let him go wild on health. I'm going to let him go wild on the food. I'm going to let him go wild on medicines.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Well, look, Trump is now trying to go wild on making that pledge good. He has picked RFK Jr. as his Health and Human Services secretary. Now, RFK, as you know, has been by Trump's side since ending his own presidential campaign. So, I guess the reward makes political sense to them.

But the issue here is that a lot of what RFK says does not make sense to the medical community. In the unfounded conspiracy theories, the false claims about science, well, frankly, all of this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT F. KENNEDY, JR., FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I do believe that autism does come from vaccines.

COVID-19 is targeted to attack Caucasians and -- and -- and Black people. The people who are most immune are Ashkenazi Jews and Chinese.

(Voice-over): COVID was clearly a bioweapons problem.

Wi-Fi radiation is -- does all kinds of bad things, including causing cancer.

Some of these mass shootings that we're seeing in this country may be related to these new classes of drugs, the SSRIs and benzos.

(END VIDEO CLIP) COATES: Now, to be absolutely clear, there's no evidence of any of what he has described, but it got the medical community worried, perhaps for that very reason. Because if RFK gets confirmed, he will oversee the 13 agencies under the HHS, from the CDC to the NIH, the FDA, the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid.

Now, look, you heard a lot about this, but no one person is one- dimensional, and that obviously includes RFK Jr. He has gained a lot of support, frankly, for saying that he wants to cut corporate influence in health care, which might explain why vaccine makers are also freaking out. You know, their stocks actually tumbled after the RFK announcement.

He also says that he wants to improve our food by getting rid of chemicals and also additives. And he wants to make Americans healthier, he says, by combating chronic disease.

The thing is, he's got no experience running a vast government department. But for that matter, there is Pete Hegseth or Tulsi Gabbard or Matt Gaetz. Trump wants all of them, though, to break down the bureaucracy that they're being asked to run, which gets me to another saying, don't let your mouth write a check that you can't actually cash. Will Trump be able to do that?

Senate Republicans are going to need to confirm these very provocative picks, although some more so than others. And Trump is all but telling those Republicans, go against me if you dare.

Joining me now, Democratic Governor of Hawaii, Josh Green. He's also a physician. Also, here with us, epidemiologist and director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota, Michael Osterholm. Thank you all for being here.

Let me begin with you, governor. Governor Green, you have pretty strong feelings about RFK Jr. as HHS secretary, particularly after an experience you say you had with a measles outbreak. What happened?

GOV. JOSH GREEN (D-HI): Yeah, well, thank you for having me. We had a terrible experience. In Samoa, RFK went and rallied that country against vaccinations when there was a measles outbreak. It resulted in the deaths of 83 innocent children. You see pictures of me vaccinating people there. Basically, what he did is he scared that country away from vaccinations. And measles will kill young people. It caused 5,000 additional cases.

And I actually was contacted by the prime minister of Samoa to come in with a contingent of medical mission workers from my state, from Hawaii, to go and vaccinate people. We vaccinated 36,997 people to basically stop the measles. But it was too late for 83 children. We went into one village and a child had just died and was still warm. And then we had a funeral service for that child because they died of the measles, and then vaccinated their seven or eight other siblings.

[23:05:00]

Then we went to the next village. That's what RFK did. And if he is confirmed as HHS secretary, what he will do is he will cast out on vaccination programs across America. That will mean thousands and then millions of people will consider not getting vaccinated, we will not have herd immunity, and physicians like myself and pediatricians and all sorts of other healthcare providers will see cataclysmic spread of disease. So, he is the worst possible choice for HHS, and I hope that the president will pull his name back.

COATES: We'll see what the Senate says. I should say that RFK Jr., governor, has said that he -- quote -- "had nothing to do with people not vaccinating in Samoa, and he never told people not to vaccinate" -- unquote. I know that you have a very different experience, but he has denied those allegations.

I do want to bring in Michael in this instance because RFJ Jr. has said that no vaccines are safe and effective. He also said that, I'm not going to take any way anybody's vaccine. Trying to reconcile the two, perhaps, would be head spinning. But here is what Trump's transition co-chair, Howard Lutnick, says Kennedy really wants.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: It's all lie.

HOWARD LUTNICK, CO-CHAIR, TRUMP-VANCE TRANSITION TEAM: He wants the data so he can say these things are unsafe. He says, if you give me the data, all I want is the data, and I'll take on the data and show that it's not safe, and that if you pull the product liability, the companies will yank these vaccines right off of the market.

Let's give them the data. I think it would be pretty cool to give him the data and see what he comes up with.

COLLINS: Okay.

LUTNICK: I think it's pretty fun.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Pretty fun. Well, people may hear, all right, let them get the data. Is there any harm in doing that?

MICHAEL OSTERHOLM, DIRECTOR, CENTER FOR INFECTIOUS DISEASE RESEARCH & POLICY: Well, first of all, let me just be really clear, the data that he's talking about is unclear to all of us because the data that you need to use to assess the safety of these vaccines actually is already in the public domain. It's not something that you have to request or take a look at.

This has been one of the problems with Mr. Kennedy's approach to what we call science, and his words is a fact that he consistently mixes up messages, he mixes up different disease problems, and you're trying to follow him and understand what he is talking about, often like kind of nailing Jell-O to the wall.

And so that's one of the challenges. We can't have that kind of science. You can't agree on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays that gravity works, but on Tuesdays and Thursdays it doesn't. And that's one of the real challenges in trying to direct response back to the kinds of comments he makes.

COATES: You're saying, I missed the data, does imply that it's not readily accessible, which might surprise a lot of people, as you're saying, that it's publicly available.

Governor, let me go back to you because a fellow governor, Jared Polis, said that he was excited, his words, excited by the pick, and that while he's not into betting vaccines, he actually praised RFK for wanting to take on big pharma, for wanting to make food healthier, and regulating pesticides. What do you say to those who think RFK Jr. could do some good?

GREEN: Well, first of all, I was with Jared today, throughout the day, at the Governors Association meeting. We talked about this. Jared is very worried about what RFK would do over vaccinations. Whether or not RFK gets to do anything else, who knows? But this is a gentleman who has absolutely no training in public health, no experience in public health nor does he have any experience in biopharmacologic processes either. He is a quack scientist. It is obvious. And Mr. Trump is doing this to be provocative.

Now, tearing down government when children's health is on the line is not okay. I was disappointed in Jared, who I love, who is one of my favorite senators -- forgive me, governors, but it is not okay. It's not okay to do what he did, to cast doubt on processes that are well established in science. It makes parents scared. When parents are scared, they don't take an action. If people freeze and we lose 10% or 20% of our vaccination rates, you'll see disease spread widely across America.

And remember, you've got a lot of children who are too young to be vaccinated, who will be very vulnerable when these diseases spread. You'll see some polio come back. You'll certainly see outbreaks of measles and mumps and chickenpox. All of these things don't just sometimes kill you, they also will cause serious neurologic damage when children are ending up with infections because they couldn't get immunity.

So, look, there's going to be different opinions. I'm the only physician governor in the country. I actually had to cross paths with RFK. He has now lied about what he did in Samoa where he discouraged those individuals from getting vaccinated, and it's very dangerous. We've seen a lot of this kind of misinformation from the Trump universe on many levels.

But this is our children's health. This is not a political thing. This is not Democrat or Republican. This is your kids. And so, when Republicans go to vote, I pray that they will not allow this gentleman to be confirmed.

COATES: What you describe is so daunting.

[23:09:59] As a mother and, obviously, a person in this country thinking about ramifications and just knowing the vaccination process that you go through with your children to go to school and beyond. It's very terrifying, frankly, Michael to think about what he has described. If you were advising senators for his confirmation hearing, what kind of questioning would you encourage them to focus on?

OSTERHOLM: Well, first of all, we have to recognize the seriousness of the situation. The governor, I think, has done a great job of laying that out. But let me just add one figure to the mix here. We estimate with some really very detailed studies that in the past 50 years of vaccines being a goal for young children, we've saved over 124 million lives. That is six lives for every minute for the last 50 years.

So, if I were a senator asking question, I'd want to know exactly what data are citing to say these vaccines aren't safe? What data are you citing to imply that, you know, it's a health problem that's being caused by things other than vaccines?

And I think the challenge we have right now is basically making sure that people don't walk away with what he purports to be facts versus what are the real science facts.

COATES: A really important conversation and a really important moment for our nation. Governor Josh Green, Michael Osterholm, thank you both so much for joining.

OSTERHOLM: Yeah, thank you. Thank you.

GREEN: Thank you. Thank you for having me.

COATES: Joining me now, national political reporter for "The Bulwark," Marc Caputo. Marc, good to see you. President-elect Trump giving RFK Jr. a shout out tonight, but with a little humor. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: And I just looked at the news reports, people like you, Bobby. Don't get too popular, Bobby.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(LAUGHTER)

COATES: I mean, Trump had telegraphed his pick weeks ago. Was there any resistance to it in Trump world? And, by the way, do you think you know what Trump meant about don't get too popular?

MARC CAPUTO, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER, THE BULWARK: I mean, Donald Trump is the bell of the ball. He does like to be at the center of attention. So, I think he is both sort of ribbing RFK Jr., and he's also a little bit envious of the attention that he got. I'm not detecting any major opposition to Kennedy getting this appointment or this nod from Donald Trump. He had telegraphed this in the campaign trail for a while. As you'd mention earlier, the campaign co-chairman or better said the transition co-chairman had just a few weeks ago on CNN said that Kennedy wasn't going to be HHS secretary.

COATES: Right.

CAPUTO: So, anything, this is really a shot across the bow to the transition co-chair, Howard Lutnick, to let him know that Donald Trump is a guy who's calling the shots, he's the guy who drives this train, and he was the one who told Kennedy, look, whatever you want, you can get. Kennedy told him, I want to be HHS chair. And so, Trump said, okay, deal, done.

COATES: Well, you also have reporting on how the Matt Gaetz nomination came about. What did you learn?

CAPUTO: That Donald Trump had spoken to a number of attorneys, and all of them had approached from as if they were applying in the words of one advisor for a judicial-style appointment. They talked about the law and high-minded theories of the Constitution. It was Matt Gaetz who told him, and I'm paraphrasing someone paraphrasing Matt Gaetz, look, I'll come in there and cut some effing heads.

He's the guy who not only has Donald Trump's back, he's not only the lawyer and the politician who is perhaps one of the most eloquent defenders and advocates for and of Donald Trump, but he is also the one who has been investigated, Matt Gaetz has, by the Department of Justice, just like Donald Trump has.

And he shares Donald Trump's belief that there is a deep state, and these are their words, not mine, and that the Department of Justice needs to be overturned and that people need to be fired and the investigators need to be investigated.

A Gaetz confidant told me after the announcement of his appointment that -- quote -- "the hunters are now the hunted," and I think that's what you're going to see if Matt Gaetz does become the attorney general. Now, there is a question mark, we should be pretty clear.

COATES: I mean, on that question mark, you report that Matt Gaetz was one of the people who made the case for Trump to press the Senate leadership candidates to allow for recess appointments. How serious, you think, Trump is about pursuing this particular route?

CAPUTO: I think Donald Trump is serious about all of these nominees. They're not only about the people that he likes and the people he thinks could do a good job. And for Donald Trump, part of doing a good job means shaking up the establishment, taking on the existing order. It also means getting what he wants.

[23:14:54]

In Donald Trump's mind, he won a historic election, he won a larger share of the popular vote than any Republican has in a long time, and he won it with a multiethnic, multiracial, and a coalition that spans the economic ladder, that is people who are relatively poor and very wealthy people.

And so, we feel he has a mandate and that it is the republic -- it is the job of the Republicans in the Senate to approve that mandate. So, yes, the Senate is supposed to advise and consent, but what Donald Trump hears in that case is consent, not advice, and he wants them to consent to his picks because he's the boss and sort of, in his words or better said in his mind, the Republicans in the Senate essentially work for him.

COATES: Well, Marc, I continue to wonder if everyone has the same definition of what the mandate really is. Voters and Trump-elect -- president-elect. Marc Caputo, thank you so much for joining.

CAPUTO: Thanks. I appreciate you.

COATES: The big question, of course, is whether the accusations against Gaetz could play a role in sinking his chances at confirmation. I'll ask Congressman Nancy Mace that and much more next.

And later, the hype building for what? The epic showdown between Mike Tyson and Jake Paul, the wild woman from tonight that could set the tone for tomorrow.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:20:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COATES: Well, the next stop for Trump's cabinet picks, Congress. But for some choices, their confirmation is, frankly, far from certain. Even the newly-elected Senate majority leader understands that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN: Do you think Matt Gaetz can get through?

SEN. JOHN THUNE (R-SD): Well, I don't know the answer to that just yet. Usually, as you point out, there certainly are some skeptics. But he deserves a process.

UNKNOWN: RFK Jr., do you think he can get through? Same as --

THUNE: They deserve a process, yeah.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: There's a team here. Joining me now to discuss Trump's cabinet picks and those who deserve a process, Congresswoman Nancy Mace, Republican from South Carolina. Congresswoman, good evening to you. I want to get your reaction tonight to Trump nominating RFK Jr. as the health secretary.

REP. NANCY MACE (R-SC): Well, I support RFK. Jr. as health secretary. I've met with him. I think he's very intelligent on health issues. I think we have a lot to address from the kinds of chemicals in our food. That's really important to me as a mom and seeing the effect that it can have on folks and their fitness and their health and cancer, et cetera. And I support Donald Trump's -- all of the folks that he wants to appoint. I mean, this is a man who -- who received a mandate last week. He overwhelmingly won the popular vote. He won all seven swing states. This is the process for him to install people he believes will support his agenda for the country.

COATES: It is absolutely his prerogative to try to install the cabinet of his choosing. But let me dive deeper into RFK Jr. specifically. Many people who might be unfamiliar with the scope of his views are familiar with his views at least on vaccines and his claims have -- have largely been debunked about vaccines. But Trump did not rule out allowing him to ban some vaccines. Could -- could his vaccine skepticism not only stall his confirmation but possibly put some lives at risk?

MACE: I can't speak for the Senate and who will support RFK Jr. or not. I can tell you, I was vaccine-injured at the second COVID-19 vaccination. I have asthma, I have pain in my chest, I have tremors in my right hand. I have spoken about this, and I was doing what I thought was the right thing to do. And now, my health is -- it has never been the same since. In fact, I'm very asthmatic this evening.

And so, I'm okay with someone who wants to ask questions. I don't think we should just take everything we hear from Big Pharma as proclaimed seeker is the end-all, be-all answer. I think it's good to have someone who's going to ask the right questions.

When these things are being pushed on the American people, they ought to be tested and make sure that they're safe. And, you know, I've never been the same since, health-wise, from the second vaccination from COVID.

And so, I share a little bit of skepticism for some of that, but I want to make sure that when I vaccinate my children, that they're getting something that's safe and is not going to have a detrimental effect like it's had on me recently in the last two or three years.

COATES: What do you say to those who look at the science that suggests that the vaccines are perfectly safe? Obviously, you have your personal experience. What is your --

MACE: Yeah.

COATES: -- statement to the American people about the safety of this vaccine?

MACE: Well, I've spoken to a number of people. We've had hearings about vaccine issues and censorship by the federal government. I've spoken to other people who are vaccine-injured. And so, I know that I am not the only one. And I've dealt with this issue now for three years. And I want to make sure that whenever we are asking people to get a vaccine, that it's safe, that they're not going to have long- term effects like I have had.

I, of course, have been vaccinated with a lot of other things without any injury, and so we know that most of them are safe, but sometimes there are vaccine injuries, there is a risk, and people ought to know, is that risk 0.5% or is it 5%? Like what is the risk that they were taking when they get vaccinated? Those things are important, I think, to the American people.

COATES: Well, I'll be curious to see what percentage of the confirmation process or his focus would be on that very issue. Congresswoman, let's get to "The Wall Street Journal" editorial board. They called Trump's pick for attorney general, Matt Gaetz, a performer, provocateur, and someone who seeks attention.

[23:25:00]

He has been criticized also for his lack of experience in this particular space. Do you support his appointment?

MACE: I support all of Donald Trump's appointments that he is seeking, including Matt Gaetz. This is someone who has been very good on civil rights and civil liberty issues. He's good on cannabis issues, something that I'm very passionate about. He's someone that believes in the Constitution. And I think that's really important when you're looking at who's going to lead in that department.

And also, Trump is also appointing other folks, including attorneys as well to support Matt Gaetz, and I support all of the individuals Trump is putting forward today.

COATES: You know, curiously, on the one hand, you want to have the opportunity to ask questions and have people challenged for the sake of the American people's information in the vaccine space, but isn't there -- you are kind of giving a cart blanche of sorts to Donald Trump. You don't have any questions about the process or concerns about any of the appointees?

MACE: Well, there's a process of checks and balances. You showed earlier on the program tonight that the Senate majority leader, Senator Thune, said that there is a process, there's a rigorous process that all of these individuals will have to go through.

I'm sure many of us will learn things we didn't know before about some of them and some of their positions, and that's good for democracy, that's good for everybody in this country. And there is that checks and balances, that's why there's a Senate confirmation process, and we'll all get to see it live on air.

COATES: You know, the House Ethics Committee had been investigating Gaetz, as you well know, for allegedly having sexual relations with a 17-year-old minor and using illicit drugs. He has denied this. Republicans abruptly canceled tomorrow's meeting to discuss that report. Do you have concerns about these allegations or the role of the American public in knowing what that report may have said?

MACE: Well, I have concerns with media, you know, being judge, jury, and executioner. This is an individual that the DOJ investigated. They decided not to pursue charges.

And so, again, you know, when we're talking about civil rights and civil liberties and giving someone that opportunity, you're innocent until proven guilty in this country. I've been accused of a lot of things that ended up being completely untrue. But he will have his say going into the Senate confirmation process, all the chance to discuss any questions that he is asked in the public realm.

COATES: Should that report be released? From not DOJ, of course, as you rightly say. They did not pursue charges. But it was the House that was looking at this. Should that report be released?

MACE: The rumor that I've heard is that they're releasing it anyway, that they're going to put it out there. That was the rumor we heard on the Hill today. So, I wouldn't be surprised if you had it in your hands by the weekend.

COATES: I'll be intrigued to see if we do. You know, Trump also has a pick for defense secretary, Pete Hegseth. He's facing backlash for saying the U.S. -- quote -- "should not have women in combat roles" -- unquote. You were the first female graduate of the Citadel. Are you offended by that statement?

MACE: No, I'm not. I mean, again, like the left wants to say, let's follow the science, and you're in a combat situation. I support women in combat as long as the physical standards for men and women are the same. When you're in that kind of life-threatening situation, when you're going to give your life for your country, your fellow countrymen, your fellow soldier, you want to make sure that physically, everybody is the same.

We've got female combat pilots that are out there. They're able to do the job very well. I think he's probably referencing like infantry and that kind of thing. But we've got women out there who are putting their lives on line for our country. But the standards should be the same for men and women alike when they're doing that job.

COATES: I'm unaware of him making that sort of nuanced argument, though. It seemed to be more blanketed. You think that there should be roles provided --

MACE: I interpreted it. Yeah, I interpreted that. My father is an infantryman, and he and I have talked about those things. My father served 28 years in the U.S. Army. We've talked about the differences, the physical differences in what combat is like and that kind of thing. I don't think he was saying, hey, women that can fly F-18 shouldn't be flying them anymore.

We have many several qualified women that are flying jets in combat zones, etcetera. I read it to be those that are on the ground, in the trenches. It's a different experience. I've never experienced that, and I can't speak to that, but our soldiers who have certainly can. He's one of them.

COATES: Well, that's what the confirmation process will be. Revelatory, perhaps, to explain the statements that have been made. And as you and your colleagues say, they all do a process. Congresswoman Nancy Mace, thank you so much for joining us today.

MACE: Thank you, Laura.

COATES: Well, one of Trump's friendlier tabloids giving him a rare rebuke for choosing RFK Jr. for his cabinet. Is it a message from Trump ally Rupert Murdoch?

Plus, Mike Tyson and Jake Paul get ready to duke it out. But tonight, it's palms that are flying.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[23:30:00]

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Ladies and gentlemen --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COATES: Tonight, Donald Trump giving people a peek at who he'll choose next for his cabinet, saying he'll name North Dakota Governor Doug Burgum as the interior secretary tomorrow. And Trump's cabinet picks are winning over Rocky himself, Sly Stallone, who spoke at Mar- a-Lago during a gala tonight with Trump in attendance.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SYLVESTER STALLONE, ACTOR: George Washington defended this country. He had no idea that he was going to change the world, because without him, you can imagine what the world would look like.

[23:35:02]

Guess what? We got the second George Washington. Congratulations!

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Second George Washington. Hmm. Joining me to discuss, Republican strategist Matt Gorman and Democratic strategist Keith Boykin. Thank you, gentlemen, for joining me tonight.

Matt, let me begin with you. "The New York Post" editorial board says tonight that RFK Jr. is a bad choice as health secretary because of his embrace of conspiracy theories, and their warning -- quote -- "that he leaves a lot of room for things to go wrong -- and for people to wind up harmed or even dead."

Now, this is the paper that's owned by longtime Trump ally, Rupert Murdoch. Will Trump listen?

MATT GORMAN, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST, FORMER SENIOR COMMUNICATIONS ADVISOR TO SENATOR TIM SCOTT'S PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN: We'll see. I mean, look, I'm a "New York Post" subscriber myself. I get my news at my doorstep every morning. So, I get it. I get the power of it. It also has a lot of circulation down in Palm Beach. I remember when I would go down there and visit, you get it just like you would up in New York.

So, look, this is going to be an influential thing. We'll see. A pick like Kennedy, right, is where the rubber really meets the road. Gaetz is controversial for its own separate reasons, right? But a guy like Kennedy, Trump is very open about campaigning with him, obviously. And, obviously, as you know, they floated him quite a bit before Election Day. So, folks like Susan Collins, Lisa Murkowski and others, it's going to be a tough decision for them.

COATES: It's not as shocking, say, as those who have not been on any kind of short list, Keith. But, I mean, RFK Jr. garnered support from voters across the political divide in part because of concerns about the state of the nation's health. But what do you say to people who believe that RFK could, in spite of all that we've listed, be a beneficial change?

KEITH BOYKIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST, FORMER CLINTON WHITE HOUSE AIDE, AUTHOR: Beneficial to whom? I mean, RFK Jr., he's not a doctor, he's not a scientist, he's not a health administrator, he's not a government administrator, he has no experience for the job. The only thing we know about him is that he's a conspiracy theorist with a famous last name. Does that make him qualified to run the Department of Health and Human Services? Of course not.

But the whole point of this decision, like so much of Trump's decisions, is simply to appoint these people for the purpose of shock and awe, because they are loyalists. Trump wants people who will be loyal to him above all else, regardless of whether they qualify for the job, regardless of whether they will actually do the job that they're supposed to do.

Because part of what he wants them to do is the reason why he's creating all this shock and all, is because he wants to get us so caught up in the absurdity of it all that we forget about the corruption. The corruption that he's appointing people because of nepotism, he's appointing people to serve his own personal interest, he's appointing people to serve corporate interests.

That's what's happening below the scene, beneath the smoke screen of the chaos that Trump is creating right now. I think we should all be concerned about that because it bodes poorly for the future of our democracy.

COATES: Matt, what's your reaction to that?

GORMAN: Yeah, I mean, look, I think, you know, you see Xavier Becerra right now, who is HHS secretary, who certainly has not qualified any respect. He has actually gotten -- Democrats have gone after him for not being qualified in that respect, too.

So, look, I'm very interested to see what happens with this because, again, Trump has been very open about this. I'm not surprised in any way, shape or form of this sort of thing. Susan Collins, who's up for reelection up in Maine, blue Maine, it's going to be a difficult vote for her. Lisa Murkowski, maybe Tom Tillis and others. So, this is going to be a very extreme confirmation hearing, and I'm very curious to see what happens.

(CROSSTALK)

BOYKIN: I'm sorry. What did you say, Laura?

COATES: I was going to ask where you're going? Do you think that's an appropriate parallel?

BOYKIN: No. I mean, Xavier Becerra is a former member of Congress who has experience in the federal government. You can't compare Xavier Becerra to RFK Jr. whose only qualification is that his last name is Kennedy. We wouldn't even be talking about him as a candidate for HHS secretary if he didn't have a famous last name. Let's be honest here. The guy has no qualifications for the job. So, let's cut out all the B.S. and let's get real about what's going on.

Donald Trump doesn't care about government. Donald Trump is using these people to help dismantle the government for two reasons. One, because he wants to protect himself, and he wants to make sure that he can do whatever he can to escape any culpability or liability or accountability for his own crimes and misbehavior.

And two, because he wants to create an open playing field for corporate interests, for his rich friends and the Elon Musks of the world, to be able to run rampant across the nation and be able to do whatever they want with no government regulation. In fact, Elon Musk will be one of the people regulating the government regulators while he's receiving federal government contracts.

COATES: Well, Matt, I want you to respond to that. But I also want to dive into one of the other people who are on the list now to face confirmation. That's Matt Gaetz. And Charlie Kirk from the right-wing group Turning Point USA, well, he is warning that Republicans, that if they voted for Merrick Garland's confirmation and won't vote for Gaetz, they're going to face a primary challenge.

[23:39:58]

Is that a real possibility that might actually be persuasive to those who are facing that prospect?

GORMAN: We'll see. I mean, again, this is going to be a much harder vote even for some than I would even say an RFK is, right? And you're starting to see that on the Hill as well. You're seeing some cracks just, I think, in the last six hours or so.

Look, at the end of the day, you know, folks aren't stupid. This is actually kind of a win-win for Gaetz, right? By resigning Congress, he's pushing chips in the table here. And he's essentially saying, confirm me, I'll be the attorney general, but if he doesn't, then he'll -- he's out of Congress but he is likely to be rumored to go run for governor of Florida anyway, and he can run as kind of a martyr who Republicans, you know, railroaded in this process.

So, it's actually in some ways a win-win for Gaetz, the way I think it's going be a harder confirmation for him, certainly, than it would be for Kennedy.

COATES: Keith?

BOYKIN: I mean, maybe it is a win-win for him in that sense, but I can't look at this as a cold (ph) political calculation. I have to look at this in terms of what's in the best interest of our country.

And appointing Matt Gaetz after accusations of sleeping with a 17- year-old, after accusations of child sex trafficking, after accusations of showing inappropriate sex videos on the House floor, after accusations of misusing campaign funds for personal expenses, after all that, and a House ethics report that was scheduled to come out tomorrow that he has now been apparently quashed just because he resigned in the nick of time, it's a height of irresponsibility to appoint someone like this to run the Justice Department.

But again, Donald Trump does this for two reasons. One, because he wants to shield himself from responsibility, from legal responsibility. Appointing Matt Gaetz means he has a loyalist there to defend him no matter what, and Matt Gaetz will do whatever. And the other is because he wants to dismantle the department itself so it doesn't go after people who commit crimes like this, his corporate buddies and the rich fat cats. He wants the Department of Justice to be weaponized so we can go after his enemies. And that is a threat to democracy.

COATES: That would be the true irony of all of this, if his issue is with the weaponized government. Well, weaponizing the government would be exactly in that vein. Matt Gorman, Keith Boykin, a lot of conversations on this ahead. Thank you both.

BOYKIN: Thank you.

COATES: Look, it's either the fight of the century or the biggest boxing circus ever. Mike Tyson taking on Jake Paul. Thirty-one years between them. And by the way, tens of millions of bucks online. Does Iron Mike still have it in him? I'll ask Bomani Jones next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:45:00]

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN (voice-over): I presume that Mike Tyson is watching this right now. Is there anything you want to say to him?

(LAUGHTER)

JAKE PAUL, BOXER, ACTOR, AND YOUTUBER: Mike, I love you. But this is my sport now. It's an honor to get in the ring with you. I'm so, so honored you're a legend. But I'm going to take your throne, brother.

(LAUGHTER) MIKE TYSON, BOXER: There's a fundamental difference between me and Jake. He's a manufactured killer. Television and paper made him a killer. He's manufactured. I'm a natural-born killer. That's the difference.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: That's 58-year-old Mike Tyson. He has been training for tomorrow's fight against 27-year-old YouTuber turned boxer Jake Paul. And Tyson is ready to go. Just look at this from the weigh-in tonight.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Ladies and gentlemen --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: And this, by the way, is how Jake Paul responded.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL: I didn't even feel it. He's angry. He's an angry little elf. Mike Tyson, I thought that was a cute slap, buddy, but tomorrow you're getting knocked the (bleep) out. I'm (bleep) him up. He hits like a (bleep).

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: We'll see about that. Look, Jake Paul is no amateur. He's got a 10 and one record and is known for a powerful overhand right. Just watch this knockout against Tyron Woodley.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Aside from Paul's fighting skills, he happens to be a master troll.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL: I'm not getting my shit bit off on Friday night, so I got my diamond-spiked ear covers right there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Frankly, the trolling seems to be working because all eyes now are on this fight. It's going to be streamed live on Netflix tomorrow night at 8:00 p.m. from AT&T Stadium in Arlington, Texas. Capacity for the venue, by the way, is 80,000 seats.

I want to get right to Bomani Jones, host of "The Right Time with Bomani Jones" podcast. Good to see you, Bomani, as always. The betting site, Polymarket, shows Paul with a 64% chance of winning, 31% for Tyson. Who you got winning tomorrow? BOMANI JONES, PODCAST HOST, WAVE SPORTS + ENTERTAINMENT: (INAUDIBLE) like this is a false. I don't know how anybody can say they have any idea who is going to win this fight because on one hand, Jake Paul has been in these fights but he doesn't fight against boxers. That's the thing. He will fight (INAUDIBLE), former basketball players. We haven't seen him go against a boxer.

On the other hand, the dude he is fighting is 58 years old, and maybe this is generational. I struggle to believe that Jake Paul could beat Mike Tyson in there. That's the hardest thing in the world for me to possibly believe. At the same time, it is really difficult to believe a 58-year-old man is going to go out there and win a boxing match. I can't -- I can't believe this is real life.

COATES: You know who weighed in on this? Another boxing legend, Oscar De La Hoya. And he gave a prediction for tomorrow's fight. Listen to what he said.

[23:50:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OSCAR DE LA HOYA, BOXER: You're fighting a Mike Tyson that only has a chance to win in the first three rounds because he's 60 years old. Jake Paul is a young, strong fighter who is now becoming dangerous, who is becoming experienced in the sport. One punch from Jake Paul, well landed, can easily knock out Mike Tyson. We have to be honest with ourselves.

So, yeah, I just wish -- I just wish that, you know, everybody comes out healthy, especially because Tyson being 60 years old.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: I think he's 58, first of all. But New York Magazine, to that point, reported Tyson almost died, almost died preparing for this fight. Is he up for going past that, what, three rounds?

JONES: Ah, I mean, I would find that to be somewhat unlikely, right? Like I'm not sure how long it went when he had that fight against Roy Jones not too long ago. But I think that's a reasonable thing for De La Hoya to say, that if Mike Tyson is going to win, this is going to go early.

What shocks me is that Oscar De La Hoya is treating this like it is an actual, factual boxing match as opposed to the carnival show that it truly is. Like I would have expected that they went to De La Hoya, and he would have been a little bit more scornful of this. I get he's a boxing promoter, and maybe he thinks this is good for the sport. I have no idea.

But if I -- personally, if I were Mike Tyson, I'd be trying to go home as soon as possible. I will try to get that taken care of pretty quickly. I would think that I can knock Jake Paul's head off if I was Mike Tyson. I would think that. COATES: We know, to the point you're making, this is different for a lot of reasons. Not only for the reasons you're talking about, but the fight is eight rounds, two-minute rounds, 14-ounce gloves. A normal professional boxing match is 12 rounds match with each round lasting three minutes. So, the same rules aren't even applying. Why do you think, and maybe the reason is just money, but why do you think they both have agreed, particularly Mike Tyson has agreed to do this fight?

JONES: Well, I think for Jake Paul, he can print money off of these fights. He's got enough of a following. He's got people that want to watch this fight. With Tyson, I don't know what his financial situation is exactly. Mike Tyson has not been a man for the last however many years. They could turn down the opportunity to get some money.

Now, what I think makes this fight appealing to the public, I did a show for HBO called "Game Theory" (INAUDIBLE) Jake Paul, and one thing that became very, very clear to me about Jake Paul is there is a generation of people who have children who consume Jake Paul's content.

And if you ever remember when you were younger and you had that one friend that your parents thought was just a little bit too stupid to be hanging out with you, what you didn't realize --

(LAUGHTER)

-- is your parents hated that friend's guts. And Jake Paul is that friend to a whole generation of kids. And their parents, who grew up watching Mike Tyson, would really like to watch Mike Tyson, not Jake Paul's block.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but there is a -- there is a generation of grown people who have spent a long time seething at the idea of Jake Paul, and that is the only reason that I can figure that there's so much interest in this fight.

I have a hard time believing that young people care enough about Jake Paul fighting somebody that's an old man to them, and I have a hard time believing that older people really want to watch Mike Tyson fight except they really, really hope that he can be the one to knock Jake Paul's head off.

COATES: I mean, you might not be wrong. Bomani Jones, I can't wait to see it, and then your reaction to it. Thank you so much for joining tonight.

JONES: Thank you.

COATES: Up next, the announcement that has maybe teenage me getting ready to bust out my walk man (ph).

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[23:55:00]

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COATES: Well, in case you missed it, today, the satirical newspaper "The Onion" won the bid for Infowars's assets. Yeah, that Infowars. Alex Jones's platform where he spread abhorrent lies about the victim to the Sandy Hook massacre. Those lies resulted in a successful $1.4 billion defamation suit against Jones.

And now, to pay the heavy bill, Jones is having to liquidate his assets, resulting in Infowars being put up for auction. Here's "The Onion" CEO talking about his plans for the platform.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BEN COLLINS, CEO, THE ONION: We're going to take it and take the universe that Alex created and just pave it over.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Well, bye-bye, Infowars. Now, over to New Zealand, some members of parliament staging a protest over an indigenous treaty bill. This, you got to see.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Now, that dance is known as the haka. It comes from New Zealand's indigenous Maori who make up around 20% of the country's population. They say the bill they are protesting would undermine their rights.

And finally, do I have some good news for you. Variety is reporting the four-time Grammy-winning group Boyz II Men, they are getting a biopic. Now, there's no release date yet, but maybe, just maybe, after all, this won't be the end of the road for the group.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(MUSIC PLAYING)

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COATES: It's so natural.

[00:00:00]

Oh, my gosh. Okay, I got to go. Thanks for watching. I got to have a Pulitzer prize right now. "Anderson Cooper 360" is next.