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Laura Coates Live
Republicans On Ethics Panel Block Release Of Gaetz Report; Rev. Al Sharpton Blasts Trump For Lack Of Black Cabinet Members; Laura Coates Interviews Former Governor Martin O'Malley; New L.A. D.A. Weighs Fate of Menendez Brothers. Aired 11p-12a ET
Aired November 20, 2024 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[23:00:00]
T.W. ARRIGHI, FORMER COMMUNICATIONS AIDE TO SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: Seventy-nine years ago today, the Nuremberg trials began in Germany, giving the world an up-close look at the faces of evil. In 2024, we have gotten way too comfortable with comparing our political rivals to people like those 24 Nazis who stood trial. It's ahistorical and it's wrong.
So, with Thanksgiving next week, I urge everyone to show grace to their friends and family whom they disagree with. We are all in this together. We were called by God to love thy neighbor. We don't always have to agree, but if we want to be a more perfect union, we need to love each other.
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR AND SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: That's a good Thanksgiving message for everyone. Thank you very much for joining us. Thanks for watching "NewsNight." "Laura Coates Live" starts right now.
LAURA COATES, CNN HOST AND SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Tonight, the latest twist in the drama. That is the confirmation battle over Matt Gaetz and the new roadblock that's stepping us from learning what the ethics committee actually knows. Plus, Democrats gear up for their next big battle. Who will be the new DNC chair? Former Maryland Governor Martin O'Malley is in the running and joins me live. Tonight on "Laura Coates Live."
Well, you know it is getting ugly when lawmakers charged with upholding ethics are accusing one another of maybe being unethical, dishonest. Congress is now erupting into turmoil over Donald Trump's pick for Attorney General Matt Gaetz. Republicans on the House Ethics Committee are blocking the release of their own report into him.
The panel has spent years, years investigating allegations, just allegations, of sexual misconduct and also illicit drug use. Gaetz, of course, denies all of it. But he's not waiting for any chance that the report actually drops. He showed up on Capitol Hill, he was flanked by Vice President-elect J.D. Vance, aiming to gain some support with the Republican senators, who will decide whether to confirm him. Now, in his telling, smooth sailing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) MATT GAETZ, FORMER FLORIDA REPRESENTATIVE: It has been going great, uh, the senators have been giving me a lot of good advice. I'm looking forward to a haring. Folks have been very supportive. They've been saying we're going to get a fair process.
UNKNOWN: The ethics committee said they're not going to release their report after their meeting today, at least at this point. Any response?
GAETZ: I'll be honest with you, I've been focused on what we've got to do to reform the Department of Justice.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: But we are hearing several people in Trump's orbit, that they're worried about this ethics report. So, frankly, are several GOP senators that Gaetz needs to have firmly in his camp. They want to see what's inside the report. If or maybe when they get it is an open question, because accusations are now flying between the members of that ethics committee. It all started when the GOP chair of the panel spoke after Republicans voted to block the report.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNKNOWN: Are you going to release the report? Is there a resolution?
REP. MICHAEL GUEST (R-MS): There was not an agreement by the committee to release the report.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: Now the top Democrat on the committee went ahead in that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. SUSAN WILD (D-PA): It has come to my attention that the chairman has since betrayed the process by disclosing our deliberations within moments after walking out of the committee, and he has implied that there was an agreement of the committee not to disclose the report. That is an untrue -- to the extent that that suggests that the committee was in an agreement or that we had a consensus on that, that is inaccurate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: So, can you reach a consensus? The meeting again next month, and that's a few weeks away, but still it's next month. That's not stopping House Democrats from trying to force the report into the light of day before that time. They went to the entire House to vote on its release. And if that doesn't happen, well, one top Senate Republican is suggesting it will go the way of every other secret in Washington, D.C., a drip, drip, drip through leaks and, of course, whispers.
John Corny telling Gaetz when he met with him today -- quote -- "There are not going to be any secrets here. Everything is eventually going to come out."
With me now, former Republican Congressman Charlie Dent, former Obama White House senior adviser and director, Nayyera Haq, and CNN political commentator and Republican strategist Brad Todd. Good to have you all here.
Let's get right to it, Brad. I got to know -- I mean, the fact that Gaetz is meeting with several senators, he clearly wants us to keep going. But this is lingering in the background and coming into the forefront very, very quickly. Are there red lights flashing for Gaetz right now? Is that why he's here?
BRAD TODD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: I think it's -- I think Gaetz's confirmation chances are slim. I think there's actually a pretty good chance it never comes to a vote.
COATES: Really? You think so?
TODD: I think that the -- that while these charges are not in the public eye, they are guaranteed they're in the private eye. That's what these meetings are about.
[23:05:01]
Matt Gaetz is a known figure on Capitol Hill. If you add the vote to confirm him the House, unanimous because they'd like to get rid of him. And so --
(LAUGHTER)
-- he is a polarizing individual in both chambers. And so -- but he's also pretty talented communicator. And so, if it gets to a hearing, I think he will do pretty well in the hearing. But I think these meetings are where the rubber meets the road for Matt Gaetz.
COATES: He's well-known, right, but he's not really well like to the point that you raise. Actually, here is what one incoming Republican senator, Charlie, had to say, telling us tonight, if the ethics report corroborates where now just allegations. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MARKWAYNE MULLIN (R-OK): I think it'd be very damning. And I hate to play the what if game because I want to see it first, but I don't think there's any way he could get confirmed if this is accurate. It was already a very -- it's already a hard push to get Matt confirmed to begin with. This is -- this is -- this will make things very difficult if it comes out that it's actually true.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: What do you think?
CHARLIE DENT, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER PENNSYLVANIA REPRESENTATIVE: Well, look, I was chairman of the ethics committee.
COATES: Yeah.
DENT: And I can tell you, Matt Gaetz did not resign because this ethics report was clean. These reports -- this report is likely to suggest or recommend some type of a sanction, a reprimand of censure, and in the most extreme cases, an expulsion, which would be a moot point now since he resigned. But this will not be pretty. And also, if they -- if the committee uncovers, um, potential criminal wrongdoing, they can refer the matter to the Justice Department.
COATES: Even they already said they're not going to do anything about it there?
DENT: Well, I don't know what the report says.
COATES: Uh-hmm.
DENT: But I was -- I was part of this. We referred people to the Justice Department. I actually had some convictions based on ethics reports. Again, the ethics committee is not investigating crime, they're investigating violations of House rules. But I can assure you, he resigned because it's going to be a nasty report.
One other thing to remember, most members who resign from Congress due to scandal usually go quietly. They go away and they go about the business of reconstructing their lives.
COATES: That's not happening here.
DENT: They don't get elevated to become the top law enforcement officer of the United States. And that's why people want to see this because this is a -- this is a big position he's being asked. And, of course, and I think Senator Cornyn is absolutely right, there are no secrets. I think much of this is going to come out. Somebody is going to probably move on the House floor to have this report released.
COATES: Hmm.
NAYYERA HAQ, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST, FORMER OBAMA WHITE HOUSE SENIOR DIRECTOR: I -- I -- I'm surprised that my two Republican colleagues are the ones who don't agree with me. That -- I think that this is actually Trump playing his strongest hand right now, rewarding a loyalist and testing Senator John Thune and his new leadership. And clearly, convictions about sexual assault no longer are objective to either the American public or to being in positions of power.
And the Senate itself has not a great track record of violations of social norms when it comes to sexual harassment or allegations of rape. They have confirmed multiple individuals who have had these issues come up in their confirmation hearings, and those were not legally-binding accusations.
COATES: Wait, do you think they should release the report, you're saying, or they should not release the report?
HAQ: I would love to see them release the report. I would love more transparency. I just don't think that's going to have an impact on the balance of power and how things are playing out politically. We don't have evidence from Donald Trump. We don't have evidence from the Senate as a body that the issues of women being assaulted or underage sex matter when it comes to the voting and confirming of Republicans into positions of power.
COATES: What about that point? I mean, you know, we've heard -- I think Steve Bannon and others have said. You know, they're flooding the zone, that they're going to -- he's going to put all of the people up, and they're going to have to choose and be selective and discerning who they think should actually get confirmed.
And if you put this one out there and you have a compromise, not to him, but the rest go in, Nayyera thinks it's not really the case, that they might likely confirm Gaetz and it's not enough to disqualify him, even if these allegations come out in the ethics report.
TODD: I think there are a lot of things that are going to disqualify Matt Gaetz if I'm predicting. Number one, he held the entire republican conference hostage in the speaker's battle last year in the U.S. House. That's not still sitting well with many Republicans on Capitol Hill.
He attacks the institutions. He attacks other Republicans in the body. He's a polarizer on purpose. And I think that Matt Gaetz has a lot of problems beyond what's in the ethics report, and I think he has a lot of problems in the ethics report.
HAQ: And that's why I want to make that distinction, though, right? This is not -- if he goes down, it's not going to be because suddenly, this entire group decided that accusations of hurting women suddenly mattered in a way that they haven't mattered before.
DENT: He's going to go down because they hate his guts.
HAQ: People don't -- it's politics.
TODD: And they think he's on his own. They think he's selfish. They think he's only for Matt Gaetz. But I think there is a mission here, like Donald Trump wants to reform the Justice Department. He should. They tried -- they spied on him when he was a private citizen. They tried to prevent him from being elected. They tried to get him out of office. He should demand change at the Justice Department even -- and a plenty of Republicans agree.
But there will be another nominee, after Matt Gaetz is withdrawn, I predict, that will do what Donald Trump wants to do at the Department of Justice. He doesn't need Matt Gaetz for this job.
[23:10:00]
COATES: What's fascinating is that, you know, the things that you're describing of Matt Gaetz would be perfectly in line to somebody who is going to buck the system. Obviously, does not care about alienating and offending the people who are on his right and his left in his own chamber. So that might be the kind of person that Donald Trump would say, well, good, then you will have no problem implementing what I want to do.
But let me ask you about the ethics committee because you just heard from one of the members saying that it was Congresswoman Susan Wild blasting a characterization that they had not come to an agreement to release the report. We're between the lines here. What was going on that they did not come to conclusion and they have to wait till next month now?
DENT: What happened is they're probably about to have a vote to release the report or to dispose of this matter.
COATES: Yeah.
DENT: And I suspect there was a deadlock vote. There are 10 members on the ethics committee evenly split between Republican and Democrat.
COATES: Uh-hmm.
DENT: And it was probably a 5-5 vote. And that's --
COATES: They like to table the issue or --
DENT: To release the report. And so, 5-5 is not a majority. So, it was not released. That's probably what happened.
COATES: Yes, sure sign that actually was the case.
DENT: That's probably what happened. And then, of course, you know, they got in the debate about was there agreement or not, you know, to not release it. And so, that's what this is all about, as I said. But there is plenty of precedent, though, to release reports after a member has resigned. In 1990, there was a case of Congressman Lukens -- Buz Lukens --
COATES: Yeah.
DENT: -- who -- who was -- this involved sex with a 16-year-old. And he was -- John Boehner took that seat after he did, by the way. And, of course, that report was released. I could go back to the Mark Foley case where after he resigned, members of Congress, sitting members of Congress, were deposed to answer questions about what they knew about that case.
COATES: So, the jurisdiction argument that they don't have it anymore because he's no longer member of Congress is hogwash to you?
DENT: Well, as a courtesy, ordinarily -- the committee ordinarily would not release a report. Again, because most of these members go away quietly. They're not going on to become attorney general of the United States. There is a major distinction here. And when there are cases of potential sexual misconduct, the committee has been more likely to release information after the fact.
COATES: Almost a sword of Damocles, right? If this is a threat, if you go away quietly, I'm not saying they've done this here, if you go away quietly, this is not going to come out. The opposite is actually happening with Marjorie Taylor Greene, the congressman from Georgia, who has made the comment, along with Paulina Luna in Florida, who suggest, look, if you are not going to go along with these Republican senators, then we're going to bring out some of your skeletons in the closet. She has said as much Taylor Greene in a recent tweet.
The fact that that might be successful gives me pause and concern that that threat would actually be realized or that there were enough skeletons to say, okay, I may not do that. What do you make of her making that threat?
TODD: I think she's a distraction on this subject. I think Republicans care what happens at the Department of Justice. They care that there's a team player there who does what they want. You've got to remember, Republicans in the U.S. Senate have strong opinions about what needs to happen in the DOJ. And I think that they have questions about whether Matt Gaetz is a team player or not. He has not been a team player for Republicans in Congress.
HAQ: He has been for Trump, which is the key thing that Trump is looking for. He has been good for Trump on T.V. --
TODD: He's a good debate coach.
HAQ: -- and loyal. Listen, I'm not saying I like the guy. What I'm recognizing, though, is the distinct separation between the norms that Republicans and Democrats have operated with, that many of you and I have served under in Congress, and then the reality of what Donald Trump has done not just to the party but also to the country. And this may be his moment where he says, this is what it means for me to disrupt the system, and my MAGA acolytes, this is what we want.
DENT: I don't know if that was their mandate. And, by the way, I could probably find you at least four Republicans, Senate Republican votes against Matt Gaetz right now. So, I mean, this is not going to happen.
COATES: So, if you're Trump and you're hearing all this drama unfold, first of all -- and, by the way, unlike, say Hegseth, when they believe that they were blindsided by the accusations that are out there, people knew there was an ongoing investigation into Matt Gaetz. Was it a mistake for Trump to put him out as the attorney general pick here?
TODD: I think that, you know, President-elect Trump likes to stir the pot, and he likes to command the conversation.
COATES: But not be scalded by the content.
TODD: He likes to command the conversation. And I think this is sending a signal that whoever ends up as attorney general is going to be expected to be a disruptor. And I think that message has been received. I don't think he has to confirm Matt Gaetz to get what he wants at DOJ.
COATES: You know, how about with Senator J.D. Vance, who is now vice president-elect, obviously? He'll be on Capitol Hill again, from your territory, but this time with Pete Hegseth, the secretary of defense pick. Is there an advantage, you think, Nayyera, to sending Vance, a fellow senator, by the way, to sort of arm twist here?
HAQ: Yeah. Having worked so many confirmations, after the announcement is made, this is the real work. You don't bring somebody in front of the panel in public until you have a sense that you can win the vote.
[23:15:03]
So, bring people along with you to every individual meeting to, you know, grease the skids, have those conversations, and also as this senator who is now vice president to remind people of who has power in the White House. And if the Republican majority wants to make some wins with President Trump, there are certain things that Thune is going to have to go along with that are not traditional Republican ways of doing business.
COATES: I mean, Vance is the president of the Senate soon, in January, but is he influential enough among the other senators to be an effective arm twister?
DENT: Not in this case because Matt Gaetz is the one they're voting on, not J.D. Vance.
COATES: Well, what about Pete Hegseth, too? He's there with him tomorrow.
DENT: Well, again, look, the problem here is that the White House is not vetting these nominees. I mean, in a functional White House, the White House staff would get a hold of the Senate before they nominate anybody and talk about potential candidates and try to scrub them. Who's -- you know, who's got the best chance? What do you guys think?
That's how you should be operating here, not just throwing out a Matt Gaetz, who has probably zero chance of becoming the attorney general. I don't understand why they want to fight a battle that they probably knew they were going to lose walking into this thing.
COATES: What about Brad's point, though, that, look, he doesn't need to even have him confirmed to have him be disruptive? The point was the peak.
DENT: Still losing, though. I mean, if you -- if they have to withdraw his nomination, they've lost.
TODD: Everybody loses one.
HAQ: If there's anyone who knows how to deny losing, it's Donald Trump.
TODD: Every president loses one cabinet nominee. I think Matt Gaetz is going to be the one he loses. That's my prediction. But I think in sending Matt Gaetz up the first time, he will send a pretty clear signal that status quo, the DOJ is not acceptable, and he will win in that way. And so, the next guy he sends will or next woman he sends will -- that'll be the mandate.
COATES: Will he be the one he lost or the one that got away? That's the big question. Thank you so much, everyone.
Al Sharpton is going after Trump for not announcing any Black cabinet members so far. What does Trump ally and GOP congressman, Byron Donalds, have to say about all that and the rest of the picks? I will ask him next.
Plus, Democrats try to pick up the pieces after the election starting with this piece: Who will lead them going forward? A candidate for DNC chair, former Maryland governor, Martin O'Malley, will join me live.
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REV. AL SHARPTON, MSNBC HOST, PRESIDENT OF NATIONAL ACTION NETWORK: You should ask Donald Trump. You talked about Black men would be with you. Where's a Black man being nominated by you for your cabinet? Has anyone noticed there's no Black that has been nominated on his cabinet? That needs to be raised.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: Reverend Al Sharpton criticizing President-elect Donald Trump for not nominating an African-American member for any cabinet position. I should say yet, there are some spots to fill. Now, to be clear, he has picked some diverse candidates to be part of his overall team and also in his cabinet. But again, as of now, there's yet to be a Black American picked for a cabinet-level slot.
Joining me now, one of Trump's top allies on the Hill, Republican Congressman Byron Donalds of Florida. Congressman, you have been a very vocal and effective surrogate for Trump and for his campaign and, frankly, the Republican Party. What is your response to this criticism?
REP. BYRON DONALDS (R-FL): Uh, I think it is criticism where people are upset that they still lost this election. And so, if you are going to ask Reverend Al or anybody else in the Democratic Party, they're still looking about the fact that this did not work out the way that they thought it was going to.
That being said, Donald Trump's cabinet is about people who are going to implement his agenda. And he is not done, by the way. You have Susie Wiles, the first woman ever to serve as chief of staff.
COATES: Uh-hmm.
DONALDS: You have Marco Rubio, a Cuban-American who's going to serve as secretary of state, representing America across the globe when it comes to foreign policy. You have Tulsi Gabbard going to be at DNI. So many others that are coming. And there are still slots to be filled. So, I think everybody needs to pump the brakes and just wait and see what happens.
COATES: Do you think Democrats are putting form over substance?
DONALDS: Um, absolutely. Look, even if you look at how the Democrats filled the Joe Biden, they wanted to have a piece of every identity, but did they get the job done? Did they actually serve the interest of the American people?
Because here's what I know: Whether you're Black or Hispanic, if the border is unsecure -- excuse me, Alejandro Mayorkas, if the border is unsecure, does that help people in their everyday lives? No, it does not.
And so, what we -- what Donald Trump's election is about is bringing competency and reality back to D.C., in the White House, making sure that the job gets done on behalf of the American people regardless of their race, regardless of their religion, regardless of their creed.
COATES: Do you think that the current cabinet picks reflect the most competent implementers of Trump's policy across the board?
DONALDS: One hundred percent.
COATES: You have no pause for any of the people who are being raised, including some who are more controversial figures who've gotten a lot of the oxygen out of the room? Obviously, Matt Gaetz, the centerpiece of criticism because of the allegations. But you don't have any pause about anyone who has been chosen?
DONALDS: No, I don't, because either I know them directly or I've gotten a chance to know them throughout the last several months. All of them subscribe to everything that Donald Trump talked about on the campaign trail. They are mission-minded about getting the job done.
Look at Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. wants to make America healthy again. He wants to go after additives in our food that are here in the United States, but not in any other country around the globe. You have suburban mothers who want to see that happen for their children. You have people who've had to deal with all kind of other health abnormalities.
[23:25:00]
And at the time -- and now what they're dealing with is going to other doctors, finding other alternatives to address those health issues, finding out it's what they're ingesting every single day. He's going to address that.
COATES: Hmm.
DONALDS: You have somebody like Tulsi Gabbard, who has not been a fan of forever wars, which, by the way, if you're a Republican or a Democrat, you've not been a fan of forever wars. She's going to be advising him when it comes to national intelligence. These are the pick -- These are the pics that he has put in, who are going to actually help him implement his agenda.
His success as president, the 47th president, is going to be on addressing all the concerns of the American people that, obviously, they had, because if they didn't have that, he wouldn't have the political mandate he's enjoying right now.
COATES: Well, let me ask you, because I remember when your name came up as a potential speaker of the House. There are many who speculated that based on the prominent role you played in this campaign and election, that your name would have skyrocketed to at least the front of the line. We are several cabinet picks in. Are you not surprise that you have not been named? Have you had a conversation about being a part of the administration at all?
DONALDS: All I will say is I am not surprised that I have not been named, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to do other things in the future.
COATES: Have you -- have they -- has he asked you?
DONALDS: Uh, no. There are some other things that I'm looking at going forward.
COATES: Like?
DONALDS: I'm not going to talk about them now.
COATES: We do this every time.
DONALDS: We're not going to break news now, Laura.
COATES: I would like to ask you. I mean --
DONALDS: We're not going to break news.
COATES: -- governor of Florida. Senator, perhaps, if Marco Rubio is confirmed. Are any of those spots enticing to you?
DONALDS: We'll see what happens as things go forward.
COATES: Do you have support for the name Lara Trump? That has been circling around as a potential person who would step in if Senator Marco Rubio were to ascend to the role that he has been chosen for.
DONALDS: So, actually, I think Lara would do a great job as a U.S. senator for Florida. I got a chance to really know her through the whole campaign process. Number one, excellent communicator, one of the best in our party. Number two, really knowledgeable about policy. Number three, her personal businesses, as she has been involved with different projects as she has done, she knows how to get things done, bring people around her to be successful.
At the end of the day, you want to be a representative of the ideals of the state of Florida. COATES: Uh-hmm.
DONALDS: Lara Trump is an example of that.
COATES: So just to be clear, and I remember the barbershops you had gone through, you talked to many Black voters, Black male voters, specifically, on the campaign trail, if the current trend stands and there is not a single Black cabinet member named, you'd be fine with that?
DONALDS: What I want right now is for the agencies of the federal government to do their job and no more, and to actually fix the ills that have been going wrong in our country. The voters spoke loud and clear two weeks ago.
COATES: Uh-hmm.
DONALDS: This was an avalanche. This was a political mandate for Donald Trump. And it's very clear that they want our border secured, they want a thriving economy, they want to be able to get out of these conflicts across the globe, and yes, people want to be energy-dominant here in America.
COATES: Hmm.
DONALDS: And if the cabinet picks help deliver the America First agenda that Donald Trump wants, this will be an unmitigated success, and every American will be happy with that.
COATES: I wonder if voters will see it the same way. I want to talk about this House ethics committee, though. They have not chosen to release the report that was compiled by the House Ethics Committee on former Congressman Matt Gaetz.
DONALDS: Right.
COATES: Do you think the report should be released, if not publicly, to the Senate so that they can have in a fulsome review in their role to advise and consent?
DONALDS: Well, actually, no, I don't, and here's why. A couple of things. First of all, we all know Capitol Hill leaks like a sieve.
COATES: Hmm.
DONALDS: If the ethics committee sends that report over to the Senate, you'll have some Senate staffers somewhere in some office who'll put it out, and that's, frankly, inappropriate, because the rules of the House and, frankly, the rules of the Senate are clear on this. If you're no longer a member, those reports do not get released to anybody. That's number one.
Number two, the FBI already looked into these allegations over three years, a long running investigation. And there were leaks out of the Department of Justice during this investigation. But what did Merrick Garland's DOJ or, frankly, that also when it started, Bill Barr's DOJ do? They didn't bring any charges. There were no charges here.
So, I think we got to be careful. Do we just want to be salacious because it's great to take somebody down or is good for news headlines, or are we going to make sure we're serious about making sure somebody like Matt Gaetz goes into the job of attorney general to make sure that the DOJ is doing its job for the American people, not for the politicians here in Washington, D.C.? That's what matters.
COATES: But the same could be true and the conclusion different. To suggest if the report is somehow baseless or it's based on unfounded allegations or is entirely critical of the Department of Justice as has been alleged by Matt Gaetz and others, then that very argument and seeing the report could buttress this case confirmation. Why not just see the report? It could be helpful to Republicans who want to confirm him.
DONALDS: Because we're -- I mean, I'm not going to be naive with you. We know the whole reason why some people are saying release it, release it, release it, mostly from the Democrat side of the aisle, because they're reeling because of the results of this election.
[23:30:05]
Their party is massively divided on which direction they should go.
COATES: Republicans also want to see the report. Some have expressed that.
DONALDS: This is fair, but they're looking for a reason to get back on track. I understand that. But we have to be very careful with stuff like this. If we're just going to be throwing allegations around, a la Justice Kavanaugh, where allegations were just tossed around, they weren't confirmed, but they were out there, and then he went ahead and got confirmed by the U.S. Senate, and now is serving as a duly- appointed justice on the Supreme Court and doing a great job in that role.
Are we now going to demonize people because of an allegation where the Department of Justice did not bring charges? They did investigate this for three years. And to be fair to Matt, the investigation went through, a lot of stuff was leaked about this investigation, no charges were brought forward, so then what are we talking about now?
Because if you compare a potential A.G. in Matt Gaetz versus the current A.G. in Merrick Garland, we do know that Merrick Garland weaponized the Justice Department. No matter how anybody might feel about it, there was -- there was not an even application of the law with Merrick Garland as attorney general.
COATES: They, of course, vehemently disagree with that characterization.
DONALDS: They can disagree all they want, but they're wrong.
COATES: They do. DONALDS: Not even just with dealing with Donald Trump. You have parents who are just trying to protest their schools, being labeled as domestic terrorists by this same Department of Justice.
COATES: Hmm.
DONALDS: The American people are done with that. They just want the institutions of our government to be even-handed and fair. Matt Gaetz will bring that.
COATES: We will see if the Senate, who will confirm, will agree with you. We'll see what happens. Thank you so much for joining us. I see you on set this evening. Congressman Byron Donalds.
Up next, it is the huge question for Democrats. Who's going to lead them out of the election funk that they are presently in? My next guest says that he is the one who's up for the job. It's former governor Martin O'Malley. He is now running to be head of the DNC. He's here with me next.
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COATES: The battle over who will lead the Democratic National Committee has officially begun as Democrats on Capitol Hill prepare for the incoming republican trifecta. Several DNC members telling CNN, this time around, they want an outsider to take the reins. The New Hampshire Democratic Party chair says -- quote -- "We definitely need to be looking outside of the Beltway. And it has to be somebody that really understands the strength of grassroots -- and we need to get back to that."
Joining me now, one of the first declared candidates, former Maryland Governor Martin O'Malley. Governor, good to have you with me this evening.
MARTIN O'MALLEY, FORMER MARYLAND GOVERNOR: Laura, thank you. And I'm here purely in my capacity as a citizen of the United States and a candidate for DNC chair.
COATES: Well, you are all the more welcome.
O'MALLEY: In all of my official capacity.
COATES: You're all the more welcome to be here. Tell me, what do you think is the first issue that the Democratic Party needs to tackle in light of really the decisive victories to lead to a trifecta in D.C.?
O'MALLEY: We need to do a couple of things at the same time. We need to rebuild our party and we need to reconnect with hardworking people across our country to give them hope that tomorrow can be better for their kids than today. So, what I'm talking about are the economic issues, the kitchen table issues, the issues that -- we have to do a better job as a party of connecting the dots so they understand the actions we take are actions which help their family, allow them to afford to send their kids to college, to be able to make their home payments. These are the two things we need to do.
And when I say rebuild our party, I don't mean just at the federal, I mean state, local and national, and we need to do it with grassroots and real organizing.
COATES: When you say to get -- essentially get credit for the work that's being done that helps people's lives, people were really looking at (INAUDIBLE) this time around.
O'MALLEY: Hmm.
COATES: They could all the numbers and all the different charts, but they didn't feel like it was a success. The Democrats were doomed. How do you bridge that gap?
O'MALLEY: You know, sometimes, we can fall into the cynicism that consultants have --
COATES: Uh-hmm.
O'MALLEY: -- about the intelligence and the curiosity of the American people to engage in a conversation about economics. When I ran for reelection as governor of Maryland, coming out of a recession, my own consultant said, don't try to make an economic argument, people aren't feeling good. But we made that argument. We won by 14 points.
COATES: Uh-hmm.
O'MALLEY: It was hard every day, but it was the important conversations that leaders must have to understand from our economy how we in our generation give our kids more and better job opportunities and better, fuller lives with greater well-being that our parents gave us.
I mean, isn't it a sad fact of our times that when unemployment is at an all-time low, white male suicides are at an all-time high? What's going on here? Why is Americans, do we fear the future? We shouldn't fear the future. This is a time of enormous opportunity. We need to -- we need to make our government work if our kids are going to have better lives.
COATES: You pointed out white males in particular just now, and one of the things that Democrats have been doing a post-mortem is evaluating who got left behind to their messaging. Did they focus on the right demographic groups that would turn out to the polls in particular? How do you intend to re-envelop those who feel disenfranchised or disenchanted by the Democratic Party?
O'MALLEY: Well, I have been -- I have been on the phone talking to state chairs, to governors -- [23:40:01]
COATES: Uh-hmm.
O'MALLEY: -- to members of the DNC. And that's the constructive question that we're all asking. I mean, certainly, there needs to be an after-action. I'm not going to call it a post-mortem. There were men and women that put all they had out on that playing field. But we can learn from the things we did right and the places where it worked well.
Let me give you just a couple examples. Thanks to Leader Jeffries, we actually flipped six congressional seats in the House.
COATES: Uh-hmm.
O'MALLEY: I was on the chair on the phone with Sharif street, the chair of Pennsylvania. Very disappointing results at the federal level. But they hardly lost anything in the state House and the state Senate.
COATES: Yeah.
O'MALLEY: And in Alaska, of all places, I was on the phone with the chair of Alaska before I came here, different time zone, and --
(LAUGHTER)
-- he pointed out that they've flipped both of their legislative chambers for the first time in 40 years. And in the state of Missouri, look, it is so cold, all of their elected officials are Republican, but they went to the polls and they voted for increasing the minimum wage, paid family leave, and reproductive freedom. There is silver lining on the edge of the start clouds. We need to figure out the places where we did it right, how we did it, but we need to get on the internet.
You know, we were knocking on a lot of doors, but the other party from the people I've talked to seem to have been doing a better job getting inside --
COATES: Oh, they had an effective --
O'MALLEY: -- through the internet.
COATES: They had an effective -- certainly, direct to consumer, so to speak --
O'MALLEY: Right.
COATES: -- campaign going on. But one issue that really was hammered by Republicans against Democrats is the issue on transgender rights and transgender youth, in particular, this election cycle. And then you Congressman Seth Moulton, who faced a great deal of criticism for expressing some discomfort, I'd be generous, over the trans athlete debate. And here's what he had to say would happen if Democrats don't actually begin to talk through these issues as well. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. SETH MOULTON (D-MA): If we can't even have discussions, we can't listen to American voters and say, by the way, that we may not agree with you, but we value your opinion, we want to listen and understand your perspective, we're never going to connect with the majority of Americans and we're not going to have a chance of winning these debates.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: So, how should the Democratic Party talk about gender identity and these social-cultural issues?
O'MALLEY: I think we have -- this is a time, Laura, when we have to hold tight to the first principles of this republic, our belief in the dignity of every person, and our belief in the common good we share as Americans.
I don't experience that anxiety that Congressman Moulton does about -- talking about tough subjects with my neighbors who may disagree. I was mayor of Baltimore. I was governor of Maryland. There were a lot of tough issues we dealt with. But leaders have to listen if they're going to be effective and collaborative leaders. They had to be willing to make themselves vulnerable in those conversations.
I am the only candidate running for DNC chair who is actually an operational leader, and I've proven that at every level. I have to listen to employees, managers, labor every day to make progress. I'm the only candidate that has been the chair of the national committee. You want to talk about tough listening sessions, tried to deal with governors from all across America when I was chair of the DGA.
And yet we came to the positive message that worked everywhere in America, jobs opportunity now. When we hone that message, when we deliver on that, that's when Democrats win.
COATES: We will see. Martin O'Malley, former governor of Maryland, thank you for taking the time.
O'MALLEY: Thank you.
COATES: All right, everyone, picture this. Sizzling night. Just kidding. You win an election for district attorney and immediately find yourself needing to decide upon a sensational, high-profile case. My next guest is living with that very reality as we speak. The L.A. district attorney-elect, Nathan Hochman, is with me next on the fate of the Menendez brothers and so much more.
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[23:45:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) COATES: Well, freedom for Lyle and Erik Menendez might have to wait. California Governor Gavin Newsom saying on Monday that he's holding off on making decision on clemency for the two brothers. Here's the governor explaining his reasoning.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM (D-CA): The Menendez file, which is now a little thicker because we did deeper research in the last 10 days, that's all on my desk, and we literally get a lot of it today. But let me just say a couple things. You do have a new D.A. The current D.A. is about to be replaced. The one who recommended the resentencing of the Menendez brothers. And I think it's the right thing to do to hear from the new D.A. before I make any decisions.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: Now, if you remember, these are the two brothers who killed their parents in 1989. They claimed they were sexually assaulted and abused by their father, and killed their parents in self-defense. Now, a first trial against the brothers ended in a hung jury. But the second trial, where evidence of sexual abuse was largely withheld, that ended in conviction and the brothers were sentenced to life in prison, all but frankly disappearing from the public eye.
That is until this year when a docudrama and a documentary were released by Netflix, both focusing on the abuse allegations. And around that same time, the Menendez brothers' lawyers filed a petition claiming there was new evidence to back up the abuse claims. The renewed attention led L.A. District Attorney George Gascon to recommend the brothers be re-sentenced and eligible for parole, and he appealed to Governor Newsom to grant that clemency.
[23:50:01]
Well, then came the election on November 5th, and that D.A. was defeated by a former federal prosecutor known for being tough on crime.
Joining me now, L.A. District Attorney-elect Nathan Hochman joins us now. D.A.-elect, thank you for being here. You know, many of the details of the Menendez case, of course, are well known to you and, frankly, to the public more broadly, but what will you be looking for in evaluating their sentencing?
HOCHMAN: So, in order to evaluate a resentencing -- and by the way, the resentencing is one of three different tracks that the Menendezes are currently on. There's a habeas track and you mentioned about it, but it was actually filed in May of 2023. And so, it has been pending ever since then, and that's dealing with the new evidence.
The second track is that clemency track. Governor Newsom, since he came into office in 2017, up until today or tomorrow, could grant clemency, and that's the second track.
The third track is resentencing, and George Gascon actually had that motion in February of 2024, but he waited until 12 days before the election when he was 30 points down and out of money in order to finally announce his resentencing decision, which was to go forward on resentencing and recommend from go -- from life without the possibility of parole to 50 years to life.
What I have said is that in order to make a thorough review of the facts and the law, I've got to review thousands of pages of confidential prison files that I don't have access to. I've got to review the thousands of pages of trial transcripts from two months- long trials. I need to speak to the prosecutors, defense counsel. I need to go ahead and speak to the victim family members.
And at that point, I will be able to render a decision on the resentencing part of it that won't have a cloud of credibility that Mr. Gascon had where people were wondering, was it a just decision or just a political ploy?
COATES: That timeline, as you explained it, could be quite elongated given all that you have to review and you don't have access to information. You are the D.A.-elect. I assume that's what is part of the stalling. Do you intend to prioritize this particular matter and the review of those different features, or do you intend to have this be one of many things that you will take on when you finally are in office?
HOCHMAN: So, the advantage of coming into office with 34 years of criminal justice experience as a prosecutor and a defense attorney with hundreds of cases under my belt is I know how to go through a record expeditiously.
COATES: Uh-hmm.
HOCHMAN: And if we do need more time, right now, there's a December 11th hearing, if I do need more time, I won't ask for delay for delay's sake. We'll ask for the minimum amount of time in order to do this thorough review because we owe it to the Menendez brothers, we owe it to the victim family members, we owe it to the public to make sure we get this decision right and then can defend it in court.
COATES: I want to go to a different matter now that you are the D.A.- elect. Just yesterday, the city council, they voted to declare Los Angeles a sanctuary city in response, frankly, to a probable crackdown on migrants. Is that a good decision?
HOCHMAN: Well, Laura, I'm sure you're aware that California has been a sanctuary state --
COATES: Uh-hmm.
HOCHMAN: -- since SB 54 was passed in 2017. So, I'm not aware. They haven't finalized what the particulars of this sanctuary city ordinance looks like. I don't know if it'll be much different than what the sanctuary state law that was passed over seven years ago looks like. And that's a law, by the way, that was challenged in the courts and the courts upheld it. So, as district attorney, I will abide by the law. That's the oath I will be taking on December 3rd. I will make sure that all law enforcement and all district attorneys, under my watch, abide by the law.
COATES: When you look at perhaps the obsolete nature of it, do you think that there will be steps that you would have to take as the D.A. to guard against a law being broken or the state level sanctuary characterization to be honored?
HOCHMAN: Well, again, we're going to honor all the requirements of the law. As you're probably aware, the law deals with certain access and information that local authorities provide to federal immigration officials. There are carve-outs for certain violent crimes, certain serious crimes under the state law. I imagine that will be under the city law as well. But we will abide by the law.
And again, if the immigration authorities have warrants and they present warrants, they can get the individuals to seek deportation. Otherwise, we'll certainly make sure we abide by the full extent of that law.
COATES: Now, you're a former federal prosecutor. You mentioned your three decades, more than that, experience. And you, on the campaign trail, certainly were critical of the current D.A. for the increase in crime in your community. What will you do to make Los Angeles safer?
[23:55:00]
HOCHMAN: So, what I was critical about the current D.A. is he instituted, four years ago, extreme pro-criminal policies that actually predetermined that certain crimes and certain criminals would not be prosecuted. Those are juveniles who steal just under $950, certain gun enhancements, certain gang enhancement, that he didn't care what the facts of the law was. He told his prosecutors not to prosecute.
I reject that extreme policy, but I also reject the extreme policy of mass incarceration, another policy that basically doesn't look at facts of the law. It just wants to put people in jail for the longest period of time.
Where I come down is what I call the hard work middle or the hard middle. The reason it's hard, you've got to do the work. You've got to look at each case individually, the individual defendant and the defendant's background, the crime committed and the impact on the victim, to determine who the true threats are to our public safety and need to be behind bars, those are often the repeat offenders, but as importantly, the ones that aren't.
Your first-time nonviolent offender can very well serve their debt to society by something other than prison. Community service, restitution, pay it back, or if they have a drug addiction, put them in a diversion program that gives them a choice between prison and an 18-month rehab program, which if they successfully complete, will wipe their record clean. COATES: Nathan Hochman, you have your work cut out for you. Thanks for joining us tonight.
HOCHMAN: My pleasure. Thank you very much.
COATES: That is our show for tonight. "Anderson Cooper 360" is next.
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