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Laura Coates Live
Trump Taps MAGA Loyalist Pam Bondi for AG After Matt Gaetz Withdraws; Jussie Smollett's Hate Crime Hoax Conviction Overturned; Major New Twist in Kayaker's Fake Death Mystery; Did Jaguar "Bud Light" Itself?; Lebron James Hits Pause on Social Media. Aired 11p-12a ET
Aired November 21, 2024 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[23:00:00]
MIKE BROOMHEAD, KTAR PHOENIX RADIO HOST: -- is completely different. I think that every kid in high school or middle school should play a sport or be in a team activity in order to graduate. I learned from a football coach I coached with, he said to the team on the very first day, you win with grace and you lose with dignity. And we've lost that in this country, that you should be able to shake the hand of your opponent when a game is over. Rivalry weekend in the NFL, I'm a Miami Hurricane, we lost the Georgia Tech, it was disappointing, but after the game was over, the players embraced.
UNKNOWN: Uh-hmm. I love it.
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR AND SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Everyone, thank you very much. And thank you for watching "NewsNight." "Laura Coates Live" starts right now.
LAURA COATES, CNN HOST AND SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Tonight, Donald Trump says bye-bye to Matt Gaetz for now, and taps Pam Bondi to be his next attorney general. The dramatic reporting behind this change-up.
Plus, Jussie Smollett's conviction for staging a MAGA hate crime has gotten overturned. But a prosecutor deeply involved in the legal drama isn't surprised at all. The attorney for Cook County is my guest.
And an alleged hoax of a very different kind. A Wisconsin kayaker, who police thought had drowned, is now accused of faking his own death and telling the sheriff just how he pulled it off.
Tonight on "Laura Coates Live."
So, Donald Trump is going with the old Twitcheroo, Florida style. He's making his new pick for attorney general hours after former Congressman Matt Gaetz vowed out. He now wants former Florida Attorney General Pam Bondi to take a sledgehammer to the very department he has vowed to gut.
Now, she doesn't have the same baggage, we'll say, that Gaetz has, and she has more than a decade of experience as a prosecutor, but there is one particularly glaring similarity, and not that they're both Floridian. Pam Bondi is a MAGA loyalist, just like Matt Gaetz, representing the former president during his first impeachment. Remember that? She also showed up during his hush money trial in Manhattan and defended him outside that courthouse.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAM BONDI, FORMER FLORIDA ATTORNEY GENERAL: I've never seen anything like this. A judge is supposed to be a neutral arbiter of facts. First of all, this case was declined by many years from the Southern District of New York by the Department of Justice, by multiple jurisdictions, yet they bring it on the heels of a presidential election.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: So, just how do we get here? I'm talking about a new pick for attorney general in just, what, six hours? A source telling us that Trump personally called Gaetz this morning. The message? You don't have the votes to get confirmed. Talk about a turnaround. Trump was all in on Gaetz just days ago. And today, he appeared to fold after realizing that writing was on the wall.
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COATES: You never count your money when you're sitting at the table. Okay, just play it in time -- all right. Sorry. My grandmother happened to love Kenny Rogers. But you walk, you run, you take your pick. Either way, it's a big relief for many Republicans. And frankly, they're making it known. Senators like Lisa Murkowski and Susan Collins will avoid the prospect of having to vote on someone facing serious allegations, and they are allegations that he has denied, sexual misconduct with a minor.
But now, they've got a different choice to make. Enter Pam Bondi. We're learning that her name was being thrown around almost immediately after Gaetz threw in his towel. Trump allies and advisors quickly coalesced around her.
But here's the question those same Republican senators will have to grapple with. Were the allegations and personal baggage the only reason they tanked Matt Gaetz? Because when it comes to what Trump wants from his next A.G., the task might very well be the same.
We just compare the Trump announcements of Bondi on the left and Gaetz on the right. Trump wants to end what he calls the weaponization at the Justice Department, and Bondi's own words match up with the lines on those statements.
I want to bring in national reporter for "The Bulwark," Marc Caputo. Also here is CNN political commentator Shermichael Singleton, who served as deputy chief of staff for HUD under the Trump administration, and Karen Finney, who served as senior spokesperson for Hillary Clinton's 2016 campaign. Glad to have all of you here.
I'll begin with you, Marc, if we can. You've got some reporting on just how all of this went down, how the withdrawal from Gaetz came about. Tell us what you know.
MARC CAPUTO, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER, THE BULWARK: I guess you can call it a withdrawal. It was, as I'd reported earlier today, Trump called him and said during conversation, you don't have the votes, the senators aren't moving.
[23:05:00]
Gaetz acknowledged there were four to six hard noses against him, and Gaetz saw the writing on the wall. And as someone told me, he fell on his sword. It's kind of as simple as that.
In the end, Donald Trump didn't have the stomach to go through with a high- profile fight like this. His team wants to get things accomplished. They don't want to pick fights with Congress, and they decided not to do the recess appointment route. So, down goes Gaetz.
COATES: I mean, Shermichael, those no votes, they seem to be quite clear. Maybe you could guess some of the ones that were there. But sources are telling CNN that there were up to maybe 10 hard no. They couldn't afford to have all those, by the way, Shermichael. But did senators today, did they send a message to Trump about the limitations perhaps of his power for that advise and consent function?
SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: I mean, I guess some could see it that way, but the reality is no one wants to vote for a potential nominee when there is drip, drip, drips from the ethics committee. Potentially, a Democrat or someone else could leak the entire report.
And you vote for someone and you put your name behind backing someone and there are allegations out there where now, all of a sudden, if you're a staffer to a senator, senators are running into elevators, trying to get away from reporters asking, would your constituents be comfortable with you voting or supporting someone with these types of allegations out there?
So, I'm not surprised by this at all. I think Pam Bondi is a great choice. Twenty years as a prosecutor, eight of those years as attorney general from Florida, a major state. She has experience. Our Elie Honig says she's one of the most experienced individuals, if confirmed, to lead DOJ. This was a great choice. A lot of Republicans are happy about it. And I think things will move forward as they should.
COATES: Do you think the reason that they were not supporting it were the allegations alone or what he possibly could do to the Justice Department?
SINGLETON: I think the allegations alone. Look, Matt Gaetz, this is no surprise. Marc has written about this. He doesn't have a lot of friends on Capitol Hill. That's just a reality in the House and also in the Senate. You hear Marc there chuckling. It's true.
COATES: Yeah.
SINGLETON: So, when you have allegations plus that lack of rapport with your former colleagues, it certainly doesn't make it an easy path.
COATES: Let me ask you, Karen, a little bit about Pam Bondi. It was just within hours when Gaetz withdrew that we learned that she'd be the pick. Now, some people know her from that courthouse moment.
KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Uh-hmm.
COATES: First woman to be the Florida attorney general. She also, I think, was close with Lara Trump. They had campaigned on an issue trying to ban dog racing in the state of Florida. She also is somebody who was -- I think that she was a part of the same organization of lobbyists that Susie Wiles was a part of as well and actually used to run. So, she is very well known in these circles in addition to her prosecutorial experience.
When you look at her as a candidate, though, does she check the boxes, you think, for Democrats as a more reasonable choice?
FINNEY: Well, look, I think Democrats recognize that Trump should nominate whoever he wants and all of those individuals should absolutely go through a process. And I actually disagree with Shermichael. I believe that Republican senators were trying to send a message to the president to say, we can't -- don't expect we can just rubber-stamp this, particularly with the specter of having a woman come and testify to the committee that when she was 17 -- which we have been hearing this young woman was potentially willing to come and testify about her -- this conduct with Matt Gaetz.
It's sort of interesting with Pam Bondi, though, because there was a time in the United States of America when let's just say you maybe were part of a major scheme to lie to the American people about the 2020 election. You were an election denier, you went around the country, and you supported them. That -- some might've said that would disqualify you to be the top law enforcement official in the country.
But this is where Trump has dragged us down to. I mean, this is an example in my mind of, yes, she has at least the legal expertise.
There's also an ethical concern about a $25,000 payment that was made by one of the Trump organizations when she was running at a time when she was considering joining other states attorneys general in a case against Trump.
COATES: Well, to be clear, hold on, I want to address that, because in 2016, news did emerge that Trump paid a $2,500 fine because his foundation improperly donated $25,000 to her election committee in 2013 before her office opted not to pursue a fraud investigation.
FINNEY: Correct.
COATES: Now, Trump eventually paid $25 million, as you noticed that. She has said that --
FINNEY: Yes.
COATES: -- this was unbeknownst to her this was even happening. But let me get to Marc for a second on this issue because she is clearly a Trump loyalist. What do you think got her the job?
CAPUTO: That he has known her for years. In 2016, when there was still a republican primary in the state and Marco Rubio was still running against Donald Trump as the favorite son, only one statewide elected Republican came out and endorsed Donald Trump before the primary. That was Pam Bondi.
[23:10:00]
It wasn't Rick Scott. And that was just kind of an example of her very close association with him. On election night, I saw her at the Palm Beach Convention Center, the Palm Beach County Convention Center.
COATES: Uh-hmm.
CAPUTO: And she told me then what she told me in the past, like, I don't want to go to Washington, I'm happy in private life, I love my life, but obviously --
COATES: What changed all of a sudden then, huh?
CAPUTO: Yes, indeed.
(LAUGHTER)
FINNEY: But, you know --
CAPUTO: The sale job was put to her.
FINNEY: People always say they're not interested until they -- I was just going to say, they always say they're not interested until you get offered the gig. And then it starts to sound a little more enticing, I think.
COATES: Well, Marc, on that point --
CAPUTO: It's a big gig, too.
COATES: It is a very big gig. But the question is, for people, if Matt Gaetz was synonymous with retribution, what is the expectation that she will be synonymous with?
CAPUTO: I imagine that she is going to follow through on what Donald Trump wants. That means mainly not the retribution stuff, albeit they are going to try to find a few folks in that office that they say are political actors. I don't want to get in that debate. That's for others to figure out at a later time.
The big thing for them to focus on is immigration. The Department of Justice is going to play a very important role in implementing this mass deportation program --
COATES: Uh-hmm.
CAPUTO: -- as well as other aspects like what Matt Gaetz was talking about with senators right before he withdrew, new ways to crack down on fentanyl, not just the immigration issue, but also going through the civil rights division, making sure that it focuses more on antisemitism and less on stopping states like Virginia from cleaning voter rolls. These are very specific, targeted issues that are important to Trump or important to Gaetz and are going to be important to Pam Bondi when she takes over.
COATES: We'll see. They will certainly have the priorities for a lot of this to these line attorneys, most of who are career personnel. Marc, Shermichael, Karen, thank you all so much.
Former Congressman Matt Gaetz's bid for attorney general, that may be over, but, you know, there are a lot of lingering questions over the release of this ethics report, including what is in it. Here's what the chairman of the House Ethics Committee says should happen next.
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REP. MICHAEL GUEST (R-MS): I think that this should end the discussion of whether or not the ethics committee should continue to move forward in this matter. He has withdrawn his nomination. He is no longer a member of Congress. And so, I think that this settles any involvement that the ethics committee should have in any matters involving Mr. Gaetz.
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COATES: Does it? Well, joining me now, a member of the House Ethics Committee, Democratic Congressman Glenn Ivey out of Maryland. Good to have you here. Listen, your committee chair is suggesting that Gaetz is dropping out and it means there's no now need to release the report. Do you agree?
REP. GLENN IVEY (D-MD): No, I don't know if that's necessarily my view. There's certainly precedent for releasing ethics committee reports after someone has retired from the Congress. There is even precedent for releasing it after someone has passed away. So, I don't know. The fact that he dropped out of the attorney general position --
COATES: Uh-hmm.
IVEY: -- means that the report should be kept private.
COATES: Why release it if he's not a member of Congress anymore?
IVEY: Well, for example, in one of those scenarios, I want to say it was the Bonner (ph) case.
COATES: Hmm.
IVEY: He was considering running for other office. And so, I know that Mr. Gaetz is a young man. I know that he has not relinquished for sure the congressional seat. He has been reelected to Congress. So, he resigned from the current seat --
COATES: Uh-hmm.
IVEY: -- but he's congressman-elect still. So, he could actually take that position on January 3rd if he wants to.
COATES: Do you think he might endeavor to do that?
IVEY: I don't know. I'm not in Matt Gaetz's head for sure, but that's a possibility. He could also, if Marco Rubio is confirmed for the Senate, he could pursue that position.
COATES: Hmm.
IVEY: And I've also read that he's looking at running for governor of Florida. So, the fact that all of those are in play, I think, is something the committee should consider.
COATES: Is the report done?
IVEY: I can't get into the particulars of that. But at the end of the day, I think the bottom line is, should the information come out and be made public? And my view is that it should.
COATES: If he were to return to Congress, should the report come out?
IVEY: Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, at this point, and what's determined in the prior precedent and the decision to release reports is that, should the public know this information? And I think the answer is yes to that.
COATES: So, if it were the judicial branch, they're always weighing the sort of cost-benefit analysis, the public's interest in knowing information versus private and privacy rights. When you look at the weighing of those two things, does the fact that he is right now a resigned member from Congress, does that outweigh the public's interest in what the House committee has been devoted to doing? Should they know, as a matter of just public interest, let alone the senators, what the public should have to know?
[23:14:54]
IVEY: Well, I mean, I don't want to get into what's in the report and that sort of thing, but I do think that there's enough that has been discussed, that to the extent he might decide to become a candidate for other office or even an appointee in another position in the Trump administration, it makes sense for the public to know what's in the report so the public can draw its own conclusions.
COATES: There has been a lot of emphasis, of course, on the sexual allegations. Does the scope of the investigation broaden beyond that?
IVEY: I can't talk about that at this point. We've got a meeting coming up on December 5th where the committee will determine what the next steps are going to be. Where it goes, I think, though, is internal deliberations that I really shouldn't talk about at this point.
COATES: Yeah.
IVEY: But I look forward to us coming together. We've had the ability to work together and get things done on a bipartisan basis previously, especially with Santos. Hopefully, we'll be able to do that again here.
COATES: At times, it has been unanimous. Really quick, apart from the House Ethics Committee, what are you hearing from your colleagues about Matt Gaetz's resignation and now removal from nomination?
IVEY: Well, my colleagues left town, so I mean what we heard last --
COATES: You all have a group chat. What's going on?
IVEY: Well, what we heard really last was the resolutions that went to the floor to, you know, have the House vote on whether to release the report and the backing up documents publicly. And the question now is going to be whether they bring those forward even though he has dropped out of consideration. I don't know what the decision is going to be on that. We'll have to see when we get back in session.
COATES: Congressman Glenn Ivey, thank you so much for joining.
IVEY: Thanks for having me.
COATES: Well, he claimed MAGA hat-wearing men attacked him, only to eventually be charged and then convicted for what they say was a staging of the entire thing. But tonight, Jussie Smollett's conviction has been overturned. The reversal, shocking to many, but not to my next guest. One of the key players in this entire saga, Cook County attorney, Kim Foxx, live with me next.
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COATES: An explosive case combining politics, identity, and alleged lies came to a dramatic conclusion today. It involves actor Jussie Smollett, star of the hit TV show "Empire" in the late 2010s. And as the show hit its peak, Smollett said that he was the victim of a racist and homophobic attack in Chicago in 2019.
At the time, he claimed that two men wearing MAGA hats targeted him with racist and homophobic slurs. Now, Smollett said that they tied a noose around his neck, yelled out, this is MAGA country. Now, according to investigators, they believe Smollett staged the entire attack. He was charged.
But the Cook County state's attorney reached an agreement to dismiss the case in exchange for community service and a $10,000 bond. That outraged many people in Chicago and it made its way across the nation as well with some of the top politicians weighing in. A special prosecutor was brought in to investigate and Smollett was charged again. He stood trial and he was convicted in 2022.
Now today, to bring it current, the Supreme Court of Illinois unanimously overturned that very conviction. They ruled that Smollett's trial should have never even happened. Didn't get the substance of the facts, but because of that initial agreement with the prosecutors. The special prosecutor says today's decision -- quote -- "does not clear Jussie Smollett's name -- he is not innocent" -- unquote.
Now, Smollett's lawyer argues the exact opposite.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NENYE UCHE, ATTORNEY FOR JUSSIE SMOLLETT: I must say this: Jussie is back to where he was. He's presumed innocent.
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COATES: Well, joining me now, Kim Foxx, the Cook County state's attorney behind the initial deal with Smollett. She joins me this evening. Thank you so much for being here. Kim, you called the second criminal case against Smollett at one point, mob justice. Do you feel vindicated by the Supreme Court's decision today?
KIM FOXX, STATE'S ATTORNEY FOR COOK COUNTY, ILLINOIS: Thank you for having me. I feel like the Supreme Court decision affirms what I learned in my first semester of my first year of law school, which is that you cannot try someone for the same crime twice. And so, it's vindicating in that we should never have been here in the first place because we find ourselves back where we were in March of 2019.
COATES: You can sum it up by thinking, look, a deal is a deal. And he performed his end of the obligation, the community service, to relinquish some of that bond. That seemed to be the agreement that was made. And yet, he was still charged nonetheless after a special prosecutor came in and got involved. Why do you think that special prosecutor truly became involved in this case?
FOXX: Dan Webb is one of the preeminent prosecutors in this country. He was a former U.S. attorney for the Northern District here. He worked on Iran-Contra. He is a prosecutor who knows the law extremely well. Dan Webb also knew from the very beginning that this would be double jeopardy.
I think the cries and demand for justice, if you will, was driven by a desire to get a different outcome. And the law doesn't allow us to do that. And Dan Webb knew that from the very beginning, which is why it's no surprise that a unanimous Illinois Supreme Court said that this was not proper. So, I think politics were at play, and Dan Webb was allowed to participate in a political act.
COATES: Many people wonder whether he got a sweetheart deal. That was always the phrasing of this. I think -- you know, I have been a prosecutor. You and I have talked about this.
[23:25:00]
The idea that prosecutorial discretion sometimes is very offensive to people and the choices people make about the plea agreements they offer. Why did you choose this route as opposed to a more severe punishment?
FOXX: Well, first and foremost, as you know, Cook County is the second largest county in the country, we have the second largest prosecutor's office in the country, and we are dealing with every day on the ground here issues of gun violence, sexual assault, domestic violence, very serious cases.
What Mr. Smollett was charged with was disorderly conduct. He was charged with filing a false police report. And in cases like that, with someone who doesn't have a criminal background, generally, we would offer what we call a diversion program or an alternative prosecution. And this was someone who didn't live in Chicago, who worked here. And so, what was offered to him was similar to what we would offer someone else. But he was allowed to do his community service in advance. He forfeited his bond. And that is in line with someone charged with this level of offense. That's what he got.
COATES: Yeah.
FOXX: He was actually treated like everyone else. The secondary prosecution where the criminal justice system was upended to go after him again, that was special treatment, and that is beyond what our Constitution allows.
COATES: What would be the impact in your office for prosecutors in your county, frankly, across the nation, if this were allowed to stand and a defendant could make a deal, hold up his or her end of the bargain, and then later on, because of public outrage, you could say, never mind, I want something different?
FOXX: It would absolutely upend our criminal justice system. And really, when the Constitution was formed and the 10 amendments were put in, the Fifth Amendment that allows for protections for the accused was at stake here.
And at the end of the day, when you make an agreement, and we knew that all along, when you make an agreement and someone fulfills that agreement, that contractual obligation between the two should stand. If we are allowed to have political prosecutions or as his defense attorney said persecutions based on mob outrage, then as a prosecutor who took an oath to uphold the Constitution of Illinois and the United States, then there's no place for me.
COATES: Hmm.
FOXX: And what happened here and what is frustrating to me is that the prosecutor who -- the special prosecutor knew that, the judge who appointed him knew that and somehow thought that they would escape the ultimate eyes of judgment of the Supreme Court, which found that you cannot do this. This is fundamentally against our constitutional principles.
COATES: Now, just to be clear, and many people followed this story from the inception, they want the court to focus on the merits of the underlying allegations that he made. This appellate court did not do that. He has always suppressed his innocence. Why didn't you have him admit any guilt in the original deal? Why? Many people want to know. Wasn't that part of it? Was that normal?
FOXX: We have agreements where people can do conditions without necessarily having to admit guilt. I think at the end of the day, this case was something unlike anything I had ever seen, not just the underlying allegations, but the intense media scrutiny that was involved. We're talking about our courthouses were packed with cameras, packed with reporters. I had child sexual assault victims having to walk around to get to their courtrooms beyond the spectacle.
And so, I think what was at play here was, how do we ensure that there's some accountability for the action? We can't even make the offer for the agreement if we don't believe that Mr. Smollett was culpable. And so, we did that in an effort to dispose of this case.
COATES: So, you believe that he was not --
FOXX: No, I mean, ethically, you know, this is a former prosecutor. We can't ask you to perform community service or forfeit your bond if I don't believe that I have the merits to take this case to court. So that was never an issue for us. The indictment that our office issued for Mr. Smollett was the same evidence that was ultimately used against him in the secondary trial.
So, this wasn't a matter of whether or not we believe in his guilt or innocence. It was a matter of how do we dispose of this case and allow our resources to go after those who are engaged in violent criminal acts and still have accountability for what happened here.
COATES: He maintains an innocence this very day and there are those who look at the discretion that was exercised, especially in the time when we talk about who is above the law and all of those things. Do you think this case represents justice?
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FOXX: I think this case represents what prosecutorial discretion is all about, which is empowering prosecutors to decide how to use their limited resources to advance for justice in their communities. And at the end of the day, Mr. Smollett and what has happened in the five years since, and the millions of dollars of taxpayer money that have gone into a secondary prosecution on a nonviolent, low-level, one step above a misdemeanor case, that is not justice.
I believe the people of Cook County who have had to pay for this second prosecution that, again, the special prosecutor knew at the outset was not a proper prosecution, is not justice. I think we find ourselves back where we were in March 2019, and I believe that the disposition of that case, while maybe different than what many would have expected, was proper. COATES: County Attorney Kim Foxx, thank you so much for your views tonight.
FOXX: Thank you.
COATES: Also, tonight, I mean this bizarre mystery happening now, it took a very interesting turn. A father, who faked his own death in a Wisconsin lake, surfaces in a video confirming that he's not only is alive, but he's in Europe?
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CHIEF DEPUTY MATTHEW L. VANDE KOLK, GREEL LAKE COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE: He didn't expect us to go more than two weeks on search. I have to tell you, you picked the wrong sheriff and the wrong department.
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COATES: So, what happens now? The sheriff you just heard from joins me now live next.
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COATES: So that Wisconsin kayaker, who faked his own death, is alive and somewhere in Europe, and now explaining how he pulled it off. That's according to the sheriff in Green Lake who today revealed the latest twist in this truly bizarre mystery. They first shared this proof of life video taken by Ryan Borgwardt.
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RYAN BORGWARDT, FAKED OWN DEATH: It's Ryan Borgwardt. Hello, man. Today is November 11th. I'm in my apartment. I'm safe, secure, no problem.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: No problem? Ah, there's a problem. This all began on August 12th when Borgwardt, who was a married father of three, went out fishing on Wisconsin's Green Lake. He never returned home. Later that day, his capsized kayak was found along with a trailer and his vehicle. The next day, a tackle box was found with his keys, his wallet, and also his license. And that set off a massive seven-week effort to search the bottom of that lake, looking for any signs of Borgwardt. Nothing ever came up.
Until months later when authorities discovered his passport had been run by Canadian officials. Turns out, he wasn't missing at all. So how in the world did he pull this all off? Well, here's Green Lake Sheriff Mark Podoll explaining this whole scheme.
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VANDE KOLK: He stashed an e-bike near the pole crunch. He paddled his kayak in a child-sized floating boat out into the lake. He overturned the kayak and dumped his phone in the lake. He paddled the inflatable boat to shore, got on his e-bike and rode through the night to Madison. In Madison, he boarded a bus and went to Detroit, and then the Canadian border. He continued on the bus to an airport and got on a plane.
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COATES: Not a spur of the moment decision. Think about this planning. And now, the big question is, will Borgwardt return to Wisconsin?
Joining me now, Sheriff Mark Podoll of Green Lake County, Wisconsin. Sheriff Podoll, this story is truly unbelievable. So many people followed your team's search for this father and husband who they thought was missing. And you've been speaking to Borgwardt nearly every day for the last 10 days. Why did he do this? Why would he try to abandon his family?
SHERIFF MARK PODOLL, GREEN LAKE COUNTY, WISCONSIN: Well, we're really not sure. Through the communications that we had, he felt that it was better for him to stage his death and to leave, and that would help his family. And that's all we know right now.
COATES: When you spoke to him, what was like his tone and demeanor? Is he flippant? Is he distraught? Is he dismissive? What?
PODOLL: No, I think he's -- right now, I think he's feeling loneliness inside. He's -- his communication has been, I guess, rather professional. He talks about his family, and he states that he's okay. He planned it, but he didn't plan it to work out the way it did.
COATES: Well, you spent seven weeks searching at the bottom of a lake for Borgwardt. I mean, the cost was nearly $40,000 for the search, let alone the manpower, the effort, the emotional investment.
[23:40:00]
You still haven't filed any charges against him. Do you intend to do that?
PODOLL: Yes. In the coming weeks, we will file charges through our district attorney's office for our charges, and then the federal authorities are continuing to look at what they can find, and they will do that.
COATES: Sheriff, does he know that you intend to seek charges and could that contribute to his decision of whether to return?
PODOLL: Yes, he does. We talked about that in our communications and what the consequences might be.
COATES: Has he, through you, tried to reach out to his wife, his children or them directly? PODOLL: No, he has not.
COATES: Do you know why?
PODOLL: Well, I think he's got a heavy heart. He's not sure how his children will react --
COATES: Hmm.
PODOLL: -- because he let -- he let them down. He did. And he has put them through a lot. So, I think he's just not quite ready.
COATES: Uh-hmm.
PODOLL: And we're hoping that we continue to have our communications and that they will come soon.
COATES: You know, sheriff, there was a moment in today's press conference when you became emotional. I just want to play that for the audience for a moment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PODOLL: Christmas is coming. And what better gift to give to kids than to be there for Christmas?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: I mean, just as you've articulated, it must have been really difficult for the family, for the community and, frankly, you. These past three months. What kind of toll has this taken, sheriff?
PODOLL: Very emotional. You think about the children --
COATES: Uh-hmm.
PODOLL: -- and what they're going through. At first, their dad had drowned in the lake, and he's alive, and then they see him on the video that he's okay. There's a lot going through him. Our department is very small, we work very close together, and I can't be more proud of them to continue our efforts.
You know, there came a time when we just said, it's enough, enough. But we never did that. And we did that for the family. We want to bring them closure. And we're in an area now where we just try to get him home safe on U.S. soil.
COATES: Sheriff Mark Podoll, thank you so much for sharing. I can't imagine what the family has gone through and it seems like you might be an extended member of it now. Thank you so much.
PODOLL: You're welcome.
COATES: Up next, did Jaguar "bud light" itself? The internet melting down over the company's new carless car ad. Is it an overreaction or something more? Plus, LeBron James calling it a career from social media. Not even Bluesky? What's going on, King James? We'll get into all of that with Cari Champion and Pete Dominick live with me next.
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[23:45:00]
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DANIEL CRAIG, ACTOR: (INAUDIBLE) give me something. No one is going to like it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: That was James Bond blowtorching Dave Bautista's Jaguar C-X- 75 on the streets of Rome in a 2015 film "Spectre." The luxury vehicle has chased down Bond on several occasions and touts a top-quality performance.
But, slumping sales have led the carmaker to pursue a kind of rebrand, unveiling a brand-new ad that has the internet, frankly, lose its mind. Maybe because the ad is missing something very important. Cars? Take a look for yourself.
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(MUSIC PLAYING)
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COATES: Now, Jaguar's chief creative officer is defending the carless ad. Don't wait for it. It's not coming. There's no car in the ad. Saying it represents a new -- quote -- "exuberant modernism."
But people on the internet, they didn't see the exuberant modernism. Elon Musk tweeted, "do you sell cars?" Another user on X writing, "awful, awful ad. Is this supposed to rescue your tarnished brand?" Little harsh. To which Jaguar responded, "This is a renaissance."
Now, some conservative accounts have launched the usual woke attacks against the ad, calling it "Bud Light 2.0" because it features multiracial and gender-bending models. One user writing, "boycott Jaguar along with any other business that still doesn't get it." (INAUDIBLE) I wonder.
[23:50:00]
Jaguar replied, "Thanks for the feedback. We'll be sure to pass it on to the team. Best wishes." The new version of noted.
So, did this rebrand do more harm than good, or is the amount of buzz it's generating online all part of the master plan? Well, to answer that question, let me bring in CNN contributor Cari Champion and comedian Pete Dominick. Good to see you both. Hey, friends. I'll begin with you, Pete, who's smiling in such an odd way. You must have an opinion. Is this "Bud Light 2.0?" PETE DOMINIC, COMEDIAN: I mean, I'm not sure. I just know that as an affluent white man, this ad made me feel unseen. I'm not sure who they think they're selling --
(LAUGHTER)
-- their high-end automobiles to, if not me. I'm deeply offended. I wasn't sure of the gender of some of these people, and I'm really worried about their brand going forward.
COATES: Cari, do you feel badly for the affluent white man that's on the screen right now named Pete Dominick?
(LAUGHTER)
CARI CHAMPION, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I can only speak for myself as an affluent Black woman. And I definitely have zero problem with that commercial because if we're getting our criticism from X, we're in trouble. That is a deeply dark space called social media. And if we care about what most people think about on social media, we're in trouble.
Now, I'd like to say this, coming from the world of sports, how many times have you seen Nike do an ad with sneakers? Anybody complaining? I look around. Nobody is complaining. They're all athletes, right? With all different backgrounds, all colors and shapes and sizes. Here's my point: If we run everything through X or formerly known as Twitter, we are in trouble. That place is not the litmus test for most sane Americans.
COATES: Hmm or litmus test for anything. I know you were being facetious, by the way, Pete Dominick, just so we're clear. I got the humor. I didn't see it. Cari didn't, too. But, I mean, this is a perfect segue she just gave me on the area of sports because LeBron James is taking a break from social media, saying, amen, to a post from sports agent, Rich Kleiman, who argues that sports media only covers sports -- quote -- "through negative takes." Cari, what's going on here with LeBron? Why is he doing it? Is it -- now why? Why this time?
CHAMPION: I -- you know what? Here's a couple of things about LeBron that I don't think people take into consideration. He has taken many breaks from social media, especially when he, early on, when he was trying to win his very first chip. You remember that when he was in Miami.
I do believe the reason why he has taken a break now, because for someone, for so long, who has been in the public eye since he was a teenager, now 40 years old, he's exhausted. How long can you be criticized consistently, day in and day out? First, it was his decision when he went to Miami, huge criticism. You know, I can go back even before that, but I'll start there at a monumental moment.
And then when he was very vocal and he spoke out about politics and what he believes, lots of criticism, which came up with the shut up, shut up and dribble. COATES: Yeah.
CHAMPION: And then most importantly, his son. His son is now playing in the league. (INAUDIBLE) for a while. There's criticism as to him being the dad that forced the Lakers hand. I'm exhausted, too. I just want to do my job. I mean, he's 40 years old. He's in his last season. He's like -- okay, you know, I don't even know if this is last season. Check me for that.
COATES: I mean, it could be.
CHAMPION: He's in the last legs of his career, and he -- and he is tired. And I understand that. You deserve whatever break you need because, as I said before, that place is assessable when it's under pressure.
COATES: Well, Pete, you're nodding along. I want you to respond to what Stephen A. Smith said today. Listen.
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STEPHEN A. SMITH, SPORTS TELEVISION PERSONALITY, SPORTS RADIO HOST, SPORTS JOURNALIST: How did you become successful? It wasn't just playing. It was learning to feed off of the narrative to build your own brand.
I don't want to hear that nonsense from them. Who the hell you all think you all talking to with your hypocritical asses? You ain't getting away with that! You feed off of this! You profit off of this! Play basketball, handle your business, save the lecture for other people when you're fed off of it all of these years.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: Hmm. What's your response, Pete? Does he have a point at all?
DOMINICK: No. I mean, listen, LeBron James --
(LAUGHTER)
-- is one of the most influential Americans of our generation. Period. Full stop. He is a role model. He understands how much of a role model he is. I read into this and any behavior from someone as respected as he is by so many Americans as, I'm going to show you how to be. Social media is unhealthy. Everybody has an opinion. Be a good person. Don't listen to these haters, no matter who you are. I mean, LeBron James knows exactly what he's doing. I grew up idolizing, in the NBA at least, Michael Jordan. We all did.
[23:55:00]
But Michael Jordan never really took a stance. He infamously, in my opinion, said, you know what, Republicans buy shoes, too. LeBron James didn't copy his idol. He has spoken out, he has been brave, he's a role model for so many Americans, including young white Americans. But every young white person, every person, I should say, who uses social media is learning from his role model. I mean, I just don't buy those kinds of criticisms. This guy can do whatever he wants, and he has been almost pitch perfect throughout his career. So, I think it's a great role modeling behavior for all of us. We should all get off social media.
COATES: Oh, okay, done. Cari Champion, Pete Dominick, thank you both so much. Good to see all of you. I appreciate it. Now, we'll all go back and braid each other's hair.
And before we go, I've got to make a plug for a cause very close to my heart. I'm hosting a coats drive. Get it? Coats drive. You know, because of the last name. Well, it is for foster children right here in the DMV area, partnering with one of our very own CNN heroes called Comfort Cases, an organization that walks the walk and ensures our foster youth do not walk alone.
This drive is inspired by my own father who himself aged out of the foster care system and become a successful dentist, professor, community leader, and the literally best father I could ever hope for.
Please go to comfortcases.com/Laura Coates. Either make donation or purchase a coat and wrap our youngest people in your warmth.
Thank you so much for watching. "Anderson Cooper 360" is next.
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