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Laura Coates Live

Trump Plans To Own, Control, And Develop Gaza; Democrats Blast Elon Musk; CIA Offering Buyouts To Entire Workforce; New York Doctor Indicted In Louisiana For Sending Abortion Pills. Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired February 04, 2025 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[23:00:00]

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR AND SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Instead, one end zone will say "choose love" and the other says "it takes all of us." The league explains that the change is about capturing the moment of time in the county and nodding to the turbulent fast few weeks of fires, plane crashes, and tragedy. They don't mention, though, the VIP who is going to be attending the big game, and that is Donald Trump. Trump has made erasing every trace of DEI initiative a focal point of his first few weeks in office. But that is something that the NFL, for its part, says it will not do.

Thank you very much for watching "NewsNight." "Laura Coates Live" starts right now.

UNKNOWN (voice-over): This is CNN Breaking News.

LAURA COATES, CNN HOST AND SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: We begin with the major breaking news tonight, the shocking plan from President Trump to have America control Gaza. It is one of the most stunning international proposals from any American president in, well, decades. And it came on just day 16 of his second term. Now, Trump wants the roughly two million Palestinians who live in Gaza to permanently move somewhere else. And he says the United States would be in charge of that land.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: The U.S. will take over the Gaza Strip, and we will do a job with it, too. We'll own it and be responsible for dismantling all of the dangerous unexploded bombs and other weapons on the site, level the site and get rid of the destroyed buildings, level it out, create an economic development that will supply unlimited numbers of jobs and housing for the people of the area, do a real job, do something different.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Now, it didn't end there. The man who campaigned on "America First" also did not rule out sending U.S. troops to help secure Gaza. He claims everybody he has spoken to loves the idea of the U.S. developing this trip. Now, he didn't say who everybody is. But Trump did speak for the Palestinians in Gaza. Thousands of them had their homes destroyed in the Israel-Hamas war, lives lost, of course, as well, triggered by the October 7th attack. He says they live in there because they have no alternative and should be given a -- quote -- "good, fresh, beautiful piece of land to live in." So, where is that? And Trump is telling? Well, he suggests Egypt or Jordan could take some in.

Trump made this announcement standing right next to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu during a White House press conference. Netanyahu was wearing a smile, frankly, most of the time. He heaped praise on Trump over and over again, saying that he says things that others refuse to say. Tonight, people across the Arab world are starting to speak up. One Arab diplomat says this won't just have huge implications for the Palestinian people, but for the entire Middle East region. Now, you might be wondering, who would live in a U.S.- owned Gaza Strip? Well, Trump was asked about that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I envision the world, people living there, the world's people. I think you'll make that into an international unbelievable place. I think the potential and the Gaza Strip is unbelievable. And I think the entire world, representatives from all over the world will be there, and they'll live there. Palestinians also. Palestinians will live there. Many people will live there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: And as for what it would look like, well, Trump had an answer for that as well.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I don't want to be a wise guy, but the Riviera of the Middle East, this could be something that could be so -- this could be so magnificent.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: The Riviera. Let's get right to David Sanger, CNN political and national security analyst and White House correspondent for the New York Times. Also, here, Aaron David Miller, former State Department Middle East negotiator and senior fellow for the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, along with retired colonel, Cedric Leighton, also a CNN military analyst. I'll begin with you here, David. Astounding idea, to say the least, that the U.S. would take over the Gaza Strip. Is this even remotely possible?

DAVID SANGER, CNN POLITICAL AND NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST, WHITE HOUSE AND NATIOANAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT FOR THE NEW YORK TIMES: Well, I guess it's remotely possible, but the obstacles to it are huge, legal, moral, and practical. First of all, you take a developer, you put a developer in front of a problem, they're going to see, you know, a hotel solution. You put a diplomat in front of the same problem, they're going to see a diplomatic solution. You know, you put the Pentagon out there, they may see a different military solution.

[23:05:00] He is not wrong, as you can see from the photographs that you're running right now, that it's a total wasteland, and if you are going to rebuild Gaza, I'm sure you're going to have to displace a lot of people. What he's not addressing is that this is, in the mind of the Palestinians, their homeland. The Geneva Convention has pretty strong wording about how you cannot forcibly move people from their homeland. And it's not at all clear to me that Jordan or Egypt, which already have huge Palestinian populations, would see this as anything other than a major threat to their own stability.

COATES: Aaron David, let me bring you into this because Trump is suggesting that the roughly 1.8 million Gazans who are in Gaza should go someplace else. He didn't commit to letting them return or to aiding in that in some way, shape or form. What do you expect the international response to be should this massive displacement occur?

AARON DAVID MILLER, FORMER STATE DEPARTMENT MIDDLE EAST NEGOTIATOR, SENIOR FELLOW AT CARNEGIE ENDOWMENT FOR INTERNATIONAL PEACE: I don't expect -- thanks for having me Laura and it's great to be here with Cedric and David. I don't give much attention to the conceit (ph) called the international community because if you look at the last 15 months, (INAUDIBLE) community has been divided, self-interested, feckless, and unwilling and/or unable to alter the trajectory of the war.

I think, though, if I may, I think we may have missed the real story here. I mean, I understand why the attraction is. It's an extraordinary proposal. He was reading from notes, I might add, which suggests to me that this has been discussed with the Israelis. And that's my point here. The real takeaway from this meeting, other than an unserious proposal from an unserious man, is the reality that there is absolutely no daylight now between Benjamin Netanyahu and Donald Trump. Anyone who thought as a headline that somehow this would be a meeting in which Trump would lower the boom, push Netanyahu through the second phase, he hasn't done that at all.

What he has done, frankly, is to provide Netanyahu, not just in the visit, but in these talking points with ammunition to use against his right wing as to why it's important to go through the first phase to keep Trump on Israel's side and maybe even get somewhere through the second because he's basically saying to the right wing, look what this man, our friend, my friend Donald Trump is going to do. He's going to take care of Hamas. He's going to force the Saudis to pay for reconstruction. He's actually going to help depopulate Gaza, which could facilitate Israeli settlement. I don't want to give President Trump too much credit here --

COATES: Uh-hmm.

DAVID MILLER: -- but there's no question that he armed Netanyahu with a set of talking points that will be very effective in helping him politically at home at a very critical moment.

COATES: Well, that certainly would explain the smile that was all but permanent during the duration of Trump's comments on these issues. Even Netanyahu suggesting with a smile, I'm paraphrasing here, this is just the first two weeks. Imagine what could be done in four years, a question I think that cuts both ways.

Colonel Leighton, let me bring you in to this part because assuming that assessment is true, that the belief is that the United States will handle Hamas, the United States will facilitate the desires of Israel, Trump didn't rule out deploying troops. So, what kind of operation would this require to try to aid in the displacement of every person there and rebuild the country? And I would note, I can imagine that would be met with some hostility.

CEDRIC LEIGHTON, CNN MILITARY ANALYST, RETIRED AIR FORCE COLONEL: Yeah, to say the least, Laura, I think it would be met with hostility as well. Keep in mind, Hamas still has fighters in Gaza, and they're still fairly numerous in spite of all that Israel has done to destroy that particular guerrilla outfit. So, the way it would look would be a huge logistical undertaking.

I remember the pier that was attempted during the Biden administration that basically fell at the end because of ISIS and logistical issues. That was designed to help with the humanitarian aspect of the Gaza problem. So that's just one small part. There'd have to be a huge airlift that would go in there. The Israelis at any one time kept at least 10,000 troops in Gaza during the height of their efforts and more, of course, as they rotated through. So, you would see a deployment of somewhere between, you know, 10 to 20 thousand U.S. troops potentially in a situation like this, plus air cover, plus intelligence assets, plus logistical assets of various types. We'd have to bring in Navy assets.

[23:09:52]

So, it would be a very large undertaking, and it would be one of the things that would really force us to take the eye off the ball in other areas such as Ukraine, such as Taiwan, such as other parts of the world where the president has also expressed some interest. So, this is a major area that would require a calibration of U.S. military resources as well as intelligence resources, and it's something that I don't think has been thought out very carefully.

COATES: Now that raises a particularly ominous point, David. The idea of taking one's resources and reallocating them across or focusing on a particular area. What would that portend for other controversies and potential conflicts? But I want to hone in on a point that was earlier raised. Trump said that Jordan, that Egypt, they would -- quote -- "give us the land we need" -- unquote -- to house Palestinians. Now, I recall that both countries have already publicly said that they would never do that. So, what would change now?

SANGER: Well, I'm not sure much necessarily would change. The king of Jordan is supposed to be in Washington next week, and I guess we'll have a chance to hear from him. But he has already got a huge Palestinian population --

COATES: Uh-hmm.

SANGER: -- that is in many ways destabilizing to his own country. Just go back for a moment to the point that Cedric was making here. President Trump in his first run for president made a big case, understandably so, for ending the forever wars that locked the United States down in Iraq and Afghanistan. So, it's a little bit surprising to hear him talk about the possibility of a major and what would have to be sustained for 15, 20 years U.S. presence there. It's also going to divide his own administration.

COATES: Hmm.

SANGER: He has hired people who believe we shouldn't be in Ukraine or the Middle East. We should be devoting those resources to the Asia Pacific and particularly to containment of Chinese power for defending Taiwan. And it's going to be a really interesting argument if this one, you know, continues along those lines, and then to try to convince Jordan and Egypt.

COATES: Everyone, thank you so much for your insight. This is the very beginning of trying to unpack all that has transpired just this evening. Washington included. They're trying to digest all of this news. And Republicans themselves, apparently, they didn't have a heads up on what was going to happen this evening. Senator John Cornyn saying -- quote -- "I don't know what to make of it." Senator Lindsey Graham called it an interesting proposal, but added it could be -- quote -- "problematic." And you have Senator Tom Tillis saying -- quote -- "There are probably a couple of kinks in that slinky."

Yeah. I want to talk about the domestic implications with Shelby Talcott, White House correspondent for Semafor, Lance Trover, a Republican strategist and former spokesperson for Doug Burgum's 2024 presidential campaign. Also, here, Alencia Johnson, a former senior advisor to the Biden 2020 campaign.

Shelby, let me begin with you here. You were in the room when that announcement was made. I was watching it on television, and I could feel the collective gasp that was happening. Tell me about the reaction in that room. Was there true shock and surprise that this had actually gone down?

SHELBY TALCOTT, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, SEMAFOR: Yeah, there was shock. And actually, you saw all the reporters are sort of checking their live transcripts. I heard whispers of people saying, is this what he said? Sort of confirming before they tweeted it out. So, yeah, a lot of people were surprised by this. And I was getting texts during the press conference from people close to Donald Trump who were also surprised by this and who were actually sort of wondering whether or not his proposal was serious.

And, in fact, it is serious because just after the press conference ended, we spoke to White House officials. They've been posting on X, and they're saying that this is 100% serious proposal by Donald Trump. Their argument from the White House tonight is that we have done things for so long, the same way, and it hasn't worked. And this is a new proposal. It is time to shake things up. If the old way hasn't worked for decades, why not try this?

COATES: Well, he has, in a way, hinted at something like this before. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP (voice-over): It could be better than Monaco. It has the best location in the Middle East, that best water, the best everything. It could be the most beautiful place -- the weather, the water, the whole thing, the climate. It could be so beautiful. It could be the best thing in the Middle East, but it could be one of the best places in the world.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: That was just a few months ago. I would say October of last year. But he'd also campaigned on "America First."

[23:15:01]

So, you heard what Cedric Leighton had to say about the undertaking militarily and otherwise this would actually entail to do so. So, could this be consistent with his policy of "America First?"

LANCE TROVER, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST, FORMER SPOKESPERSON FOR DOUG BURGUM'S 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN: I don't know what could be more "America First." We're talking about a region that has been mired in terrorism and war that has cost us trillions of dollars. It has cost us manpower and man hours and troop involvement over there. I mean, it's one of the great problems we have in this world.

And let's just look -- I mean, yes, this is a bold proposal. It's Donald Trump. I would expect nothing less from him. But it's an outside the box proposal into what, you know, Shelby was talking about and what the administration is talking about. What is wrong with saying, what are the other options? Because Hamas would love nothing more than to go back to exactly the way things were, to move back into Gaza, to use the Palestinians as human shields, and go right back to creating terrorism and trying to destroy Israel. So, for me, it's like, yeah, nothing else has worked. Let's take a shot at something else.

COATES: But doesn't an "America First" policy just necessarily entail that American troops are not at risk of having to carry out another nation's bidding? And this would be essentially American troops possibly on the ground undertaking military operation. That's not exactly following "America First."

TROVER: Well, again, I mean, you're talking about a region that has created some of the worst terrorism this world has ever dealt with. I mean, when it comes to our national security, I think that is, as I was saying earlier, "America First" in protecting the homeland for sure.

COATES: Talk to me, Alencia, about what the Democratic response has been. Obviously, they're in the minority. In case anyone missed that particular memo.

(LAUGHTER) But Democratic Senator Chris Murphy said -- quote -- "Trump totally lost it." That's his quote. And his colleague, Chris Coons, called the move quite insane. Okay, these are words. Now what?

ALENCIA JOHNSON, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST, FORMER SENIOR ADVISER FOR THE BIDEN 2020 CAMPAIGN: Well, look, first, I will like to say, for the Palestinian people, this has to be extremely devastating, to be completely displaced from your homeland and also told that you may not be able to come back. Basically, that's what Donald Trump is saying.

The Democratic response has been very interesting, as we have seen since October 7th, right? You have some Democrats who are completely 100% with where President Biden's policy was. You have a lot of Democrats who wanted them to shift their policy. You even had Vice President Harris having to reckon with this while calling for a ceasefire. And yet there were voters who were frustrated that she didn't push President Biden further, even though she is the vice president.

I think you will continue to see Democrats talk about how inhumane this is, how out of the ordinary this is. Sure, we need to figure out something else that will work, but displacing millions of people who have already lost their homes and their lives, I mean, this is -- people are equating this to genocide. That is actually not the solution.

And so, you will see Democrats continue to push on this. And I will say, I talked to some folks who are part of the uncommitted coalition. They said this is the time for us to stop pointing the fingers and what happened in 2024. I think for a lot of issues right now, we need to stop pointing the fingers and come together and build this coalition to push back and resist.

COATES: Well, I will say -- I mean, that's interesting you say that because one of the leaders of the uncommitted movement released a statement to us, Mrs. Layla Elabad, who is part of the uncommitted movement, saying Harris -- the full statement is, Harris left a vacuum by not visiting Michigan families impacted by U.S.-supplied bombs to help create a permission structure for their trust while Trump visited Dearborn and filled the community in despair with lies.

Now, of course, she goes on to talk about other aspects, saying that she felt sad and angry and scared for our communities. And for months, they'd warned about the dangers of Trump at home and abroad, but our calls fell on deaf ears. This is the statement that they're making. This is pointing the finger, number one. Also, it's going to invite Democrats to try to understand what is wanted of them to do now.

TALCOTT: Yeah, I think Democrats, again, they have to sort of rebuild their coalition and figure out what they stand for and who their leader is. And one thing that Donald Trump did really well in the election, and it's the reason why he won, is because he went to these people and he talked to them. And he was seen over Kamala Harris and the incumbent administration as somebody who would solve all of these issues. He was successful in making that argument. And now, of course, when you talk about this particular proposal, when it comes to Gaza, there's still more questions than answers, right? Where would these Palestinian people go? Who would we purchase Gaza from or would we have troops on the ground? That is a proposal that I think a lot of Trump allies are not in favor of, putting more troops on the ground. That is something that historically Donald Trump has been against. So, there's a lot of questions that we don't have the answers to. But yeah, at its core, Donald Trump went in and won this election because he went to these people and he spoke to them. He went to these communities that felt like they were being ignored by the Democratic Party.

[23:20:03]

JOHNSON: Can I just speak really quickly? Yes, he did go to Dearborn and speak. But he lied. He literally lied, right? And so, he won on being masterful of people believing these lies. Now, Vice President Harris did call for a ceasefire very publicly more than once. She did meet with some of the uncommitted leaders. There was tension, obviously, at the DNC. I'm not going to hold it completely on Vice President Harris. There are a lot of decision makers in the Democratic Party that were giving, I will be honest, horrible advice about this issue. Well, there were a lot of political strategists who knew since October 7th of 2023 that this would be a huge issue and that those who make decisions in the Democratic Party actually needed to listen.

COATES: Strategists, presidents, senators and the like, it strikes me that there are people waking up in Gaza right now who are just now getting this news and trying to understand what it will mean for them, their futures and all that has happened. Thank you, everyone.

Next, Democrats go after Elon Musk by holding a rally dubbed, "Nobody Elected Elon." That's happening outside the Treasury Department.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D-MA): Elon Musk is seizing power from the American people.

(APPLAUSE)

We are here to fight back!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: But what exactly can Democrats do to even slow Musk down? Well, Colorado Governor Jared Polis is my next guest. Plus, is the CIA Donald Trump's next target? The entire agency just got offered buyouts to make it more in line with Trump's priorities. Hmm.

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[23:25:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MAXINE WATERS (D-CA): We got to tell Elon Musk, nobody elected your ass.

(APPLAUSE)

Nobody told you, you could get all of our private information. Nobody told you, you could be in charge of the payments of this country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Democrats trying to rally their supporters outside the Treasury Department tonight at the "Nobody Elected Elon" rally. But Elon Musk isn't going anywhere, it seems. In fact, the White House has now designated him a special government employee. That includes, by the way, top-secret security clearance. He and his aides even have access to the Treasury Department's payment system, which handles $5 trillion in disbursements. But the department is trying to calm its critics, saying that those aides can only see the system and cannot suspend or reject payments. Musk has already help dismantle the USAID, which will have its entire global workforce go on administration leave this Friday. That's according to a directive issued just tonight.

Well, joining me now, Colorado Democratic Governor Jared Polis. Governor, thank you for joining me this evening with the news coming in as it is. "The New York Times" quoted one Trump official who said that Elon Musk was -- quote -- "operating with a level of autonomy that almost no one can control." A big question for many tonight is, who exactly is running things, the president or the unelected Elon Musk?

GOV. JARED POLIS (D-CO): Well, look, I'm more the state perspective and looking at -- obviously, these things don't say people, money, reduced prices. There's a lot of ways in the federal government. I hope they look at the Department of Defense. It's the biggest line item in the -- in the federal budget, about 30% discretionary funds. Look, we can absolutely do things better. I don't fully understand this process. I don't think anybody does. We could use more transparency about what's going on. But, of course, we wish anybody well who is focused on increasing efficiency of federal government, the state governor, local government. I repealed over 208 executive orders a few weeks ago with a chainsaw, and we need that kind of approach, but I'm not sure this is it.

COATES: Well, you've got the federal response, Democrats who are in Congress. And you've got, of course, the state level responses that could come and be impacted. What as a state governor are you prepared to do or could you possibly do to try to counteract whatever impact this might have on your state?

POLIS: Well, what we're most concerned about right now, would be devastating economically to our residents, are these very high tariffs that would not only increase the cost of everyday products for all of our families but, frankly, destroy our manufacturing sector because most manufacturers use supplies and parts from around the world. Guess what? If we have tariffs with Canada, with Mexico, with China, a lot of those manufacturing jobs are going to move overseas.

A big role of governors is economic development. And we want an ally in the federal government. We don't want our own federal government working against us and implementing these tariffs to destroy jobs and raise prices.

COATES: So how worried are you about this trade war if it lingers? Obviously, Canada and Mexico have the 30-day delay, but there are things right now. I mean, tonight, there are these new 10% tariffs in effect on goods from China. China already is retaliating with its own tariffs. So, what if this is a sustained trade war? What impact will that have on Coloradans?

POLIS: You know, even the threat of a trade war is dangerous because it discourages investment. I mean, I know companies at this point are saying, hey, do we expand in Colorado, do we expand the export of Canadian market, or we worry that in 30 days, this will come back? So, look, the business and wages and jobs thrive on stability. And this is the opposite here. I really hope these tariffs don't go in in 30 days. We need to make sure that American-Mexico are part of our trading blocs so we can better compete against China. The only country that would be cheering on tariffs against Mexico and Canada and, of course, retaliatory tariffs against the United States would be China, and they would be the main beneficiary of that.

COATES: Let's turn the page for a moment to what's happening on Capitol Hill in terms of confirmation hearings. Obviously, Trump has certainly hit the ground sprinting, but he wants his cabinet filled out.

[23:30:01]

One position, of course, RFK Jr.'s nomination for health secretary. It's on its way to the full Senate. And he could be confirmed as early as even next week. You have already signaled that you would be willing to work with him. Do you want to see him confirmed?

POLIS: Look, I don't think it's a huge surprise that Trump has selected a republican Senate that he basically gets his cabinet.

COATES: Uh-hmm.

POLIS: I think we're all very happy that Matt Gaetz didn't make it because he would have been a terrible attorney general. Even the Republicans saw that. But, look, it looks like the rest of his picks with the republican majority get through. I'm going to work with anybody and everybody. I think most governors have that approach. It doesn't mean we agree with them on everything. I voiced disagreement with, for instance, RFK, about skepticism of the vaccines. At the same time, if there's an opportunity to improve the health of the American people, to focus on making America healthier --

COATES: I hear you, governor, but do you want --

POLIS: -- getting that diet and nutrition.

COATES: I hear you, but specifically, do you want RFK Jr. to be the person that you work with in that capacity? Do you want him confirmed?

POLIS: Well, I've compared him to Trump's last secretary of health who was a pharmaceutical lobbyist. So, is RFK potentially better than a pharmaceutical lobbyist? Of course, there's more upside with somebody who can be an independent thinker and focuses on health rather than does the bidding of a multi-billion-dollar industry that profits off of our illness.

COATES: Precisely the concerns that many have had in even having his nomination. There's a greater concern as well in terms of the immediacy of the situation tonight. Governor, before we go, I have to ask you about this proposal that Trump has, that the United States will take over Gaza and move Palestinians from it with no guarantee of return. What is your response to that proposal?

POLIS: Well, look, there's 2.2 million people there. No one has talked about where they will move or if they even want to move. And, of course, I would be extremely concerned if American lives, if the American military was engaged in expensive years, decade-long, costing American lives, treasure there. We need to do better, of course, for peace in the Middle East. I'm not convinced that this, you know, vision, I don't even call it a plan because it doesn't have a plan behind it, is necessarily something that could work.

COATES: We shall see. Netanyahu was beside him when he said it. What next is the big question for so many. Governor Jared Polis, thank you for joining.

POLIS: Thank you.

COATES: We have even more breaking news tonight. Now, the CIA is facing a shakeup, just as the FBI undergoes some major turmoil. So, will all these moves put this country at risk?

Plus, a New York doctor charged by a Louisiana grand jury for allegedly sending abortion pills to that state. What this means for the future of abortion in this country.

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[23:35:00]

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COATES: Well, first, it was the FBI. Now, it's the CIA that's facing a major shakeup. America's spies' agency is being offered sweeping buyout. That means every -- every CIA staffer can quit in exchange for about eight months' pay. The move is meant to weed out those who don't support the MAGA agenda, and the buyouts are meant to support the agency's new goals of targeting drug cartels and undermining China.

Meanwhile, over at the J. Edgar Hoover Building, it's even more tense. The FBI today complied with a DOJ demand to give information on thousands of agents who worked January 6 cases. We're talking about I.D. numbers and job titles, not names. Several FBI agents even filed a lawsuit accusing the DOJ of conducting a loyalty purge. The acting director of the FBI, Brian Driscoll, has tried to stand in the way, defending the rank and file and becoming somewhat of a G-Man folk hero along the way, with AI memes like this one, celebrating him for pushing back on the agency's purge. But soon, Driscoll will have to face his new boss, the newly confirmed attorney general, Pam Bondi, who begins her first full day tomorrow.

Lots to get to on all of this tonight with national security attorney Mark Zaid and former top counterterrorism executive at the FBI, Christopher O'Leary, who's currently a senior V.P. for global operations at the Soufan Group. Thank you both for being here. Chris, let me begin with you. I want to know what your reaction is to now CIA employees, all of them, really, being offered buyouts, combined that with the FBI news. Everyone's wondering, is this going to put Americans in danger?

CHRISTOPHER O'LEARY, SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT FOR GLOBAL OPERATIONS AT THE SOUFAN GROUP, FORMER FBI AGENT: Well, Laura, the simple answer is yes. So, the combination between the FBI and the CIA, those are two of our primary agencies responsible for our national security. Whether it's counter-terrorism, great power competition, you name it, from head to toe, those two organizations are what protect America along with the Department of Defense.

Eroding the workforce or really getting after the morale and really empowerment of the workforce is going to have a direct impact on national security at every level. It will also have, from the FBI standpoint, a real impact on fighting crime on the streets, which is what this administration says they want to do. But FBI agents and leadership, they run those violent crime task forces around the country with state and local partners.

[23:40:03]

They run the transnational organized crime task forces around the world. So, really reducing their ability to do all of this is going to have a measurable effect on the crime in the United States and in the region.

COATES: I mean, I can't imagine having that level of turnover in an instant at this moment in time, Mark. And I -- the big question is, suppose all these employees say, no thanks, I don't want your buyout, does the DOJ have the legal authority to then remove these agents, remove these analysts?

MARK ZAID, NATIONAL SECURITY ATTORNEY: Well, that's a good question. Look, the FBI has a lot of civil service protections in the normal world. I've represented FBI personnel for almost 30 years or so, maybe more now, I guess, and all the agencies. And, I mean, even at the agencies where the director could actually legally remove someone without any due process, and that does exist at a number of the agencies, in statute, in regulations, they don't do it.

I had one case in 30 years, and I've never come across another, because all the agencies have always believed in due process. Now, sure, when Robert Hanssen got arrested by the FBI for spying for Soviet Union, Russia, he didn't get due process. There's a national security exception to fire employees for something of that nature.

But for working on an assigned criminal matter that was prosecuted across the United States for attacking the Capitol, and yet somehow you get fired for that with no due process -- I mean, even if you just get fired for that with due process --

COATES: Hmm.

ZAID: -- that's just not the system we are used to nor should we tolerate.

COATES: Well, Mark, I mean, you went from hearing about one. You may have scores, frankly, of members of these organizations who are looking for representation. You represent a number of the FBI agents already. What are they telling you about how they are feeling about the prospects of not only our security, but how vulnerable they are to being let go?

ZAID: Well, I can say not just from the FBI since, obviously, those buyout offers have gone to many agencies. They are demoralized. These are individuals who -- for example, the lawsuit we filed today against the FBI, I think the shortest term was like eight years of service. A couple were over 20, almost a quarter of a century. I had all of the agencies. When they woke up to get an email from OPM, that was, if you read it, just insulting, was basically saying, look, we don't really need you any longer. If you want to take the buyout, good riddance. And these are really dedicated public servants who are not partisan. I have no idea how they voted Republican, Democrat. They don't care either.

And is it -- I don't know how the government is going to function (ph). I mean, I think that's the bottom line in these agencies. And the amount of experience that we are about to use and the extent to which that will harm American national and domestic security, you can't even actually articulate the degree. I mean, forget about whether or not your tax returns are going to be filed or processed properly or your -- you know, you just name any type of institution. Your Social Security checks. You know how slow things go in the government in the normal time? You can imagine when there's, you know, 10%, 20%, 30% less workforce.

COATES: Chris, I mean, just hearing that, it makes you just -- my head keeps shaking, looking -- to think about how this could be viewed internationally, how people would be able to share information with us, the trust in the absence, frankly, a dearth at that point of institutional knowledge and cases that are ongoing that have nothing to do with January 6 whatsoever. You got the acting FBI director, Chris, Brian Driscoll. He has become something of a kind of hero for the FBI's rank and file. And, in fact, he initially refused, refused to give the names of the agents to the DOJ. And then he released this video today. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRIAN DRISCOLL, ACTING FBI DIRECTOR: We will never take our eyes off of our mission, protecting the American people and upholding the Constitution. Because at the Bureau, we're focused on the work. And the people we do the work with are partners. And the people we do the work for, the American people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: You actually worked with him. How do you think he's handling what, frankly, is an unfathomable position?

O'LEARY: So, Brian is the best of us in the FBI. He's a humble, professional, who made an incredible reputation based on his work and his courage and his bravery and his humility, and that's all being demonstrated in front of all of us right now.

[23:45:03]

Along with Rob Kissane, the acting deputy director, they both have incredible operational experience. Nobody has ever heard of them before. They have not really spent much time in headquarters because they have been in the field protecting this country. Brian is doing what he would have done on any Friday when he stood up last Friday. He's being a leader. He is, you know, carrying out justice with integrity and strength and courage, and that's what we should expect in our leaders. And he is focused on two things, the mission of the FBI and the welfare of his people, and that's what you should have in a leader, and that's what he is really demonstrating to the entire country, and he has a huge following in the FBI workforce who feel really persecuted right now, and the country will suffer unless we change this dynamic.

COATES: Mark Zaid, Christopher O'Leary, thank you both. A first for this country, a New York doctor criminally charged for allegedly sending abortion pills to a girl in Louisiana. But New York isn't taking it lying down. The governor is saying she'll never turn the doctor over to Louisiana. I'll speak with an advocate who works with the charged doctor next.

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[23:50:00]

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COATES: Tonight, a landmark abortion case highlights the divide in America post-Rove v. Wade. Louisiana wants to prosecute a doctor in New York State for sending abortion medication across state lines. They're charging Dr. Margaret Carpenter for allegedly prescribing a pill to a pregnant minor in Louisiana. This case appears to be the first of its kind. But Louisiana's state attorney general says it's not about abortion. Quote -- "This is about forcing somebody to have an abortion who didn't want one" -- unquote.

Now, prosecutors argue the minor's mother requested the medicine and gave it to her daughter. The daughter called 911 after experiencing a medical emergency. That's when officers discovered a doctor from New York prescribed those pills. New York's governor, she says it's not going to comply with any extradition order and signed a new law allowing doctors to withhold their names on abortion prescription labels.

With me now, Julie F. Kay. She is the co-founder of Abortion Coalition for Telemedicine, which advocates for access to telehealth abortion in all 50 states. She started the group with Dr. Carpenter. Julie, thank you so much for joining. First, you know Dr. Carpenter. What do you believe is the intended impact of an indictment like this on doctors like her?

JULIE F. KAY, CO-FOUNDER, ABORTION COALITION FOR TELEMEDICINE: This is part of the anti-abortion movement's plan to try to remove access to safe and effective abortion nationwide in this country. They are really working towards continuing what the Supreme Court started when it took away Roe v. Wade.

COATES: Julie, when you look at this, I wonder how your group is going to respond to this indictment. Obviously, there is a grand jury in Louisiana, calling for the extradition. The governor is saying that's not going to be the case. There is some movement in terms of being able to not have a doctor's name on the labels. But this is a case-by- case scenario, it would seem, at this point. How will you respond?

KAY: Well, Governor Hochul is right that we have a law in New York State called a shield law that allows licensed practitioners to provide safe and effective medication abortion nationwide. And the state of Louisiana, its public officials are trying to mess with that right and trying to restrict access. And this case could have, you know, really wide-reaching implications because of the kind of overreach that we're seeing. But we're not going to let that happen.

COATES: This shield law just came into effect, I think, what? Yesterday. Are you confident the law will protect Dr. Carpenter from prosecution in Louisiana if she were to, say, travel to other state and don't share that same philosophy?

KAY: The shield laws have been passed by eight states and have been in effect since 2023. And yesterday, Governor Hochul bolstered New York State laws to try to further protect doctors. And these states are standing together because they know that access to abortion is a fundamental right for women, the ability to control your body and decide whether when and with whom to have children or not. And so, we're seeing a lot of resistance to the states that are overreaching, trying to take away abortion rights for everybody nationwide. And we're confident that the people will stand together and really protect licensed practitioners who are providing this safe care.

COATES: This appears to be one of the first of its kind. I'll be eager to see how this impacts not just doctors, but also in a case like this, the mother of the girl as well who had the prescription. Julie F. Kay, we will stay on the story. Thank you for your contribution today.

KAY: Thank you, Laura.

COATES: Ahead, the controversial move by the NFL to change its end zone slogan for this Sunday's Super Bowl.

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[23:55:00]

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COATES: Well, in case you missed it, there's a chance and a change coming to Super Bowl Sunday that's raising quite a lot of eyebrows. Take a look at the end zone from last Super Bowl. Note the text. It says "end racism." That was added to the end zone for the Super Bowl starting in 2021.

But this year, that slogan will not be there anymore. Instead, "choose love" is rumored to be the replacement. Now, both slogans are part of the NFL's Inspire Change campaign. The goal of which is to promote diversity and inclusion. As to why they're making the change this year? Well, the NFL says -- quote -- "choose love is appropriate to use as our country has endured in recent weeks wildfires in Southern California, the terrorist attack here in Orleans, the plane and helicopter crash near our nation's capital, and the plane crash in Philadelphia."

The thing is, some do find it hard to ignore the political backdrop here. Trump will be at the game between Kansas City and the Philadelphia Eagles this coming Sunday. This is as his administration is leading the charge to do away with DEI.

[00:00:02]

But the league insists that their diversity efforts are not going anywhere. In fact, here's Commissioner Roger Goodell.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROGER GOODELL, NLF COMMISSIONER: We got into diversity efforts because we felt it was the right thing for the National Football League. And we're going to continue those efforts because we've not only convinced ourselves, I think we've proven ourselves that it does make the NFL better.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Thank you all for watching. "Anderson Cooper 360" is next.