Return to Transcripts main page
Laura Coates Live
Trump Defends Musk Over Sweeping Government Cuts; Top Prosecutor Quits Over Order To Probe Biden Decision; Trump Levels Stunning Criticism Against Zelenskyy; Mayor Adams's Fate Hangs In Balance As Hochul Awaits Hearing; A$AP Rocky Found Not Guilty In Gun Assault Case. Aired 11p-12a ET
Aired February 18, 2025 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[23:00:00]
LANCE TROVER, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: But since we're going petty crime, I think if you do not clean up your dog's poop, you should have to go around the neighborhood, your community, and pick up -- whether it's backyards, pick up dog poop, wearing a sign that says, I didn't pick up my dog's poop, now I have to pick up all the dog's poop.
CARI CHAMPION, CNN CONTRIBUTOR, BROADCAST JOURNALIST: I agree while listening to Mariah.
TROVER: One hundred, but all in.
CHAMPION: Just my thought. Just my thought.
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR AND SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: The dog offenders are the absolute worst.
UNKNOWN: Worst.
PHILLIP: Your dog --
CHAMPION: That was really great.
PHILLIP: Just being a good citizen of the world.
CHAMPION: That's great.
PHILLIP: All right, everybody, thank you very much. Thank you for watching "NewsNight." "Laura Coates Live" starts right now.
JESSICA DEAN, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: (INAUDIBLE) -- after refusing to comply with the Trump administration request. And this time, it's related to President Biden.
And will Governor Kathy Hochul act to remove Mayor Eric Adams? Why tomorrow could be a make or break moment for her decision. Tonight on "Laura Coates Live."
Good evening to you. I'm Jessica Dean, in for Laura Coates tonight. And Donald Trump is revealing more about Elon Musk than ever before and why he sees him as critically important to his administration. He sat down with the billionaire for an interview at the White House and painted him as the enforcer of his executive orders.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: You write a beautiful executive. And you sign it.
ELON MUSK, CEO OF TESLA MOTORS, LEADER OF DEPARTMENT OF GOVERNMENT EFFICIENCY: Right.
TRUMP: And you assume it's going to be done, but it's not. What he does is he takes it. And with his hundred geniuses -- he's got some very brilliant young people working for him that dress much worse than him, actually.
MUSK: Yeah.
TRUMP: They dress in just t-shirts.
(LAUGHTER)
You wouldn't know they have 180.
SEAN HANNITY, TALK RADIO SHOW HOST: Wait, wait. So, he's your tech support.
TRUMP: No, no, he is -- he is actually much more than that.
MUSK: I actually am tech support, though. But that's --
TRUMP: He gets it done. He's a leader. He would have those people go to whatever agency it was. When are you doing it? Get it done, get it done. And some guy that maybe didn't want to do it, all of a sudden, he's signing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DEAN: For weeks, Democrats have been going after Musk and his push to gut the federal government. They've called him President Musk. They've dubbed him the unelected billionaire. But today, Trump is making it clear his first buddy status is as strong as ever.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Elon is, to me, a patriot. So, you know, you could call him an employee, you could call him a consultant, you could call him whatever you want, but he's a patriot.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DEAN: Now, Trump is saying you can call Musk whatever you want, as he just did there, because he's not actually officially running the agency, taking a sledgehammer to the government. A court filing from the administration says he's not even a DOGE employee. So, who is in charge? Well, the White House has been trying to clarify that all day.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SANDRA SMITH, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: What is his role at DOGE?
KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Sure, I'm happy to clarify. Elon Musk is a special government employee here at the White House, serving at the direction of the president of the United States, Donald Trump. Elon Musk has been tasked with overseeing DOGE on behalf of the president.
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: So, who is in charge of DOGE?
STEPHEN MILLER, WHITE HOUSE DEPUTY CHIEF OF STAFF FOR POLICY: The president of the United States.
KEILAR: Does Elon Musk know he's not in charge of DOGE?
MILLER: Again, the president runs the government, then the president appoints advisors, including Elon, including myself.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DEAN: It may not be clear who's technically got the top title at DOGE, but it doesn't seem to matter for Trump. Musk has his ear and the president is trusting the team that Musk has selected.
But the scope of what DOGE has access to is dizzying. Staffers already have their paws in a slew of federal agencies. And now, they're trying to get access to sensitive data from the IRS and the Social Security Administration.
Lawsuit after lawsuit has been trying to slow them down. But tonight, a federal judge is refusing to block Musk and DOGE from accessing data at seven federal agencies, the very same judge who oversaw Trump's federal election interference case. She's also not stopping DOGE from carrying out worker layoffs.
Now, this is a big win for the Trump administration, at least temporarily. Now, DOGE will get to keep digging. And we're hearing staffers began holding meetings at the Pentagon late last week. Musk's companies have billions in federal contracts with the Defense Department. And Trump is telling, though, there's nothing to worry about.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Any conflicts, I told Elon, any conflicts, you can't have anything to do with that. So, anything to do with possibly even space, we won't let Elon partake in that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DEAN: Joining us now, Democratic strategist Chuck Rocha, former communications aide to Senator Lindsey Graham, T.W. Arrighi, and senior politics reporter for Axios, Marc Caputo. Good evening, gentlemen. Thanks for being here with us.
Marc, let's start first with you. Trump and his aides say the president is in charge of DOGE.
[23:05:00]
We just heard them lay it out. But when you take all of the facts that Musk hired the staff, held a presser in the Oval Office, that he is posting about alleged fraud almost daily, how do you square that?
MARC CAPUTO, SENIOR POLITICS REPORTER, AXIOS: Well, I don't really square. I recognize that because it's subject of a lawsuit. The Trump administration wants to say that Elon Musk does only have this role because Democrats in plaintiffs, in lawsuits, are claiming this is such an important role that Elon Musk operates in, that there needs to be more oversight. He might even occupy cabinet level-type position and, therefore, he needs to be voted on or confirm by the Senate. And so, the way for the Trump administration to sort of avoid that is, like, no, he's not really in charge, but he is.
DEAN: He's not, but he is. T.W., tonight, Hannity asking Musk to respond to all the vitriol that he has gotten from critics over the DOGE work. I want to play his response.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MUSK: Well, I guess we must be over the target of doing something right. You know, they wouldn't be complaining so much if we weren't doing something useful, I think. But all we're really trying to do here is restore the will of the people through the president.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DEAN: I mean, it does sound like he's running things. And he is obviously taking actions that -- you know, making decisive actions. Why is the White House trying to distance him from all of this? Does it go back to, as Marc is talking about, these lawsuits?
T.W. ARRIGHI, VICE PRESIDENT OF PUSH DIGITAL GROUP, FORMER COMMUNICATIONS AIDE TO LINDSEY GRAHAM AND MIKE POMPEO: I'm not a lawyer, so I'm not going to speak to the lawsuits. But I'm going to say that this -- he's carrying out the will of the Trump voter. Look, Donald Trump made no surprise during the campaign that if he got elected, he was going to let Elon Musk go in there with a sledgehammer and find the ways fraud and abuse throughout the federal government and start streamlining things.
Look, Jamie Dimon called Elon Musk the Einstein of our time. I would actually say he's the Henry Ford of our time. And why you wouldn't want that type of person trying to streamline our agencies that have insane bloat is sort of beyond me. And I love hearing the left say, oh, well, you know, we all agree that there is bloat and waste in government, and so count me in. And yet when there is one person fired or one-line item cut, the sky is falling and the planes are falling with it.
It's not serious. The American people don't buy it. That's why they voted for Donald Trump. They're psyched to see what Elon is doing. And they're not crying for the bureaucrats that lost jobs in the DMV. DEAN: And Chuck, T.W. makes a point, which is Trump was very clear about Elon Musk and the role he would likely have and what he wanted him to be doing and the American people did vote for him. Musk has portrayed his DOGE work as fighting for the will of the people. Does that stand up to your scrutiny? What do you think?
CHUCK ROCHA, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST, FORMER SENIOR ADVISER FOR BERNIE SANDERS'S 2016 AND 2020 PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGNS: Well, I think that Elon Musk spent $288 million of his own money to elect a guy who gave him that job. So, I think it was a great investment for him to be able to then go in and wreak havoc in our government.
And God forbid, I'm the one here and I'm going to be one of those folks that T.W. was talking about and say, look, if you're going to get my trash picked up on time or make sure that the snow is removed off my street, count me in an efficient fashion. We want our government to be efficient. We haven't always done, to T.W.'s point, the best job at doing that.
But the Republicans are brilliant to put a Democrat like me in a position to have to defend all the bloat that's in our government. I hope they go to the Pentagon and work on some of the $10,000 toilets I've been hearing about for the last 20 years. Count me in.
But the bottom line is we have billionaires now in charge of our White House when a majority of Americans, stay with me here for all elementary math students like me, a majority of people who voted in this election voted for somebody other than Donald Trump. And now, Donald Trump is running around like he won 90% of the vote here, breaking things and moving quickly. And I think he's going to break something that he never going to be able to get back into that box at some point, and he's going to pay for it in the midterms.
DEAN: Hmm. And Marc, I want to stay with Musk for a second because former Trump advisor, Steve Bannon, has called Elon Musk a parasitic illegal immigrant. No love lost between those two. How does all of this play out within MAGA world?
CAPUTO: Well, that is part of what you just read there, the dispute over the H-1B visa issue, where Steve Bannon is much more aligned, much more in tune with the MAGA base, a lot of working-class voters, even independent of MAGA, who don't like the idea of sort of importing more labor, including high-skilled labor and replacing U.S. labor and U.S. workers. So that portion of it, I see Bannon prevailing on because if you look at the polling, he's with that portion of the base or those people.
[23:09:57]
But Elon Musk is sitting down with the president. The president repeatedly praises him. It's difficult to see, especially after months and months of people predicting that Donald Trump is going to get sick of Musk and he's going to chuck him, that all of a sudden there's going to be this falling out.
The best way, I think, to forecast this is Elon Musk has a job to do. It's this DOGE committee or whatever we're going to call it. And once that's done, maybe there's going to be more of a separation. But until then, all signs are that Donald Trump really likes the guy, likes the work he's doing, and Elon Musk is going to be sticking around the environs of the White House for quite some time.
DEAN: Yeah, at this moment, full steam ahead. T.W., President Trump keeps joking about a third term. Going back to Steve Bannon for a second, he has not been joking about that. He believes Trump is eligible for another term. I know we're getting a little ahead of ourselves here, but do you think that's something that Republicans would entertain?
ARRIGHI: I think one did already. But no, in short, I don't think that fight needs to be had. By the way, Donald Trump is no spring chicken. He does enjoy his golf and his sunshine. And I don't think he's going to want to do it, anyway. I think that's a really bad road to go down.
But to the Steve Bannon point, look, Steve Bannon was in the center of power in 2017. He then went to prison for what he thought was for the president. He didn't wind up back in the White House like, say, Peter Navarro.
So, this is a lot like seeing a girl you were seeing going out with another guy and posting it all over Instagram. It hurts. And you have two options. You can try to understand her perspective and get over it or you can go to war. And he just chose to go to war with the richest man on the planet who owns X. So, we'll see how it works out for him.
DEAN: Yeah. And Chuck, Bannon has said he thinks -- quote -- "Musk is the one with the power at the moment. Democrats are nowhere to be seen." He says future party leaders won't be politicians, but big personalities like Stephen A. Smith. I'm curious if you see it that way.
ROCHA: Look, there's a lot of soul searches. He's going in the Democratic Party. And to my friend, T.W., I want to get even with him on stealing my ex-girlfriend line that I already had wrote up for tonight --
(LAUGHTER)
-- being jealous of my beautiful wife.
ARRIGHI: Beat you, too, baby.
ROCHA: But the point about what you're saying is there needs to be a reexamination. We've lost touch with the working class of this country. Steve Bannon does have his hand on that. He has for a long time. And I think he sees through people like Elon Musk and other billionaires who are in it, I think, my personal opinion, for their own well-being.
So, there's something to be learned here by Democrats to take on a fight because if you want to take on a bully and take on people, you've got to learn how to fight and to stand up to bully because normally, they'll run away. DEAN: Hmm. And T.W., in the meantime, Republicans are just fine with going ahead with their plans and the Democrats being out in the wilderness.
ARRIGHI: Yeah, I mean, I think it is full steam ahead for DOGE. We've seen -- you know, I think it's unusual for the American people to see the president and his advisors out in front of the media every single day. I think they find it unusual that DOGE is tweeting several times a day about the things they're slashing, and they find it rich when they find misreported information about some of what DOGE is doing like, for example, the nuclear agencies or the FAA, when you find out that those employees were temporary employees, are only there for under a year and not watching nuclear codes.
So, yeah, I think things are going well. There are going to be hiccups. Play fast, make mistakes, as my grandmother said in cards. But we're on a good path.
DEAN: And just -- I did want to ask you. Trump has said tonight he's not going to touch Social Security unless there's fraud. Earlier today, he did claim millions of dead people are collecting Social Security payments, which we -- you know, we will wait for that evidence. But where -- where do you think that's going?
ARRIGHI: I think there's definitely fraud somewhere in Social Security, and I have no doubt that the whiz kids at DOGE will find it. It's an antiquated coded system. Everyone knows that. So, stay tuned. I'm sure you'll find plenty.
DEAN: All right --
ROCHA: And the first time that somebody misses their Social Security payment, I'm going to run a T.V. commercial and we're going to win the House by 10 in the midterms.
DEAN: All right --
ARRIGHI: Save some money.
DEAN: On that note, thanks to all of you for staying up late. We appreciate it.
ARRIGHI: Thank you.
CAPUTO: Thank you.
DEAN: Still ahead tonight, an order to launch a criminal investigation into a Biden initiative ends with the top federal prosecutor resigning. The dramatic moment inside DOJ and why some fear that there is more to come.
Plus, as President Trump seeks to end the war in Ukraine, he's now lashing out against President Zelenskyy in one comment in particular, as Ukrainian allies stunned.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [23:15:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DEAN: More drama at the Department of Justice. The top criminal prosecutor in the U.S. Attorney's Office in Washington resigning. This time, over a demand to probe a $20 billion Biden-era grant program run by the Environmental Protection Agency.
Denise Cheung says that she was ordered to do that, but she says there was not enough evidence of wrongdoing. And in her resignation letter to Acting Deputy A.G. Emil Bove, she added -- quote -- "Because I believed that I lacked the legal authority to issue such a letter, I told you that I would not do so. You then asked for my resignation."
The DOJ firing back, saying Cheung refused to fulfill a basic request and follow the chain of command. But it highlights the growing tension between career prosecutors and the new bosses at the DOJ. Cheung's resignation coming after the standoff over the Eric Adams case, where the DOJ demanded prosecutors drop charges against him.
[23:19:58]
Eight prosecutors resigned, one of them just yesterday. And more than 900 former Justice Department prosecutors signing an open letter in support of current prosecutors, saying that they are dealing with -- quote -- "ethical challenges of a type no public servant should ever be forced to confront."
With me now, former federal prosecutor Brendan Ballou. He resigned over Trump's pardons to January 6 rioters. Brendan, thanks for being here with us tonight. Denise Cheung refusing to go along with this order to open an investigation that she says lacked evidence. What message do you think this sends to the rank-and-file over DOJ?
BRENDAN BALLOU, FORMER DOJ PROSECUTOR WHO WORKED ON JANUARY 6 CASES: Well, I think the fact that she had to resign is a message that this administration is trying to politicize the entire process of justice. You see that both in this matter as well as the January 6 pardons, and the Eric Adams attempt to drop that investigation. I will say that the fact that she resigned itself, I also think sends at some level a positive message, a message that line-level prosecutors can actually play a role in resisting that politicization.
DEAN: And so many prosecutors have been fired or forced to resign. What do you think they achieve with these resignations, these firings?
BALLOU: Yeah. So, I think the purpose of the resignations from the perspective of the line-level attorneys is to show that these actions by the administration are politically-motivated. And I think in that extent, in that respect, they have been tremendously successful because they've really revealed the extent to which this administration is trying to use criminal law to push a political agenda.
If I can just add very briefly to that, that all matters because the Department of Justice can't act alone. It needs grand juries to indict. It needs trial juries to convict. It needs judges to rule on motions. And to the extent that these line level attorneys can show that these are politically-motivated prosecutorial decisions, it's going to make it harder for the Department of Justice to do any of that.
DEAN: Hmm. So, back to this EPA situation, the DOJ wanting to freeze the payment of $20 billion to the EPA, is clawing back money for the administration. Do you think part of the motivation here is it simply that it was a Biden era?
BALLOU: Yeah, it seems like this was a prosecution in search of a crime. Ms. Cheung, based on the public reporting, did everything she could to legally comply with what this administration was asking her to do. But I think it's important to remember that, you know, not just the president, not just elected officials, but every government employee takes an independent oath to uphold the Constitution. And it sounds like she took that very seriously.
DEAN: Yeah, I mean, several of the resignation letters by these prosecutors have been (INAUDIBLE). They've been calling out politics, calling out potential wrongdoing by Maine DOJ. Do you think that that begins to influence public opinion?
BALLOU: Absolutely. You know, the Department of Justice isn't like NASA. You know, we don't have rockets in our command. The only thing the Department of Justice has is its credibility. And I think with these very public resignations, these attorneys have shown the political nature of these prosecutions, which in and of itself makes it less likely that these prosecutions are going to be successful.
DEAN: And if there are more dismissals and a focus on loyalty, you do -- you don't -- do you begin to worry about brain drain at the department and what that could mean for prosecutions going forward?
BALLOU: To a certain extent, I will say that there's a very deep bench of experienced prosecutors at the Department of Justice. And conversely, this administration, especially the acting U.S. attorney at the District of Columbia, really has very little or no prosecutorial experience. So, to the extent that they're going to push their agenda, they're going to need to rely on career prosecutors to do so. They can't do this by themselves.
DEAN: All right, more to come on this. Brendan Ballou, thank you so much for your analysis there. We appreciate it.
BALLOU: Thank you.
DEAN: Still ahead, one foreign policy analyst called today Putin's best day since he invaded Russia. And the reason why has everything to do with what President Trump said at his news conference today. That stunning remark next.
Plus, should Democrats let President Trump and Elon Musk do what they want for now or should they be fighting back? Former Congressman Tim Ryan has some thoughts on that and more right after this. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:25:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: And I think I have the power to end this war. And I think it's going very well. But today, I heard, oh, well, we weren't invited. Well, you've been there for three years. You should have ended it three years. You should have never started it. You could have made a deal.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DEAN: You should have never started it. That was President Trump today appearing to blame Ukraine for Russia's invasion. That remark coming as he faced questions over why his administration didn't invite Ukraine to today's talks with Russia, talks that were led by Secretary of State Marco Rubio. And to be clear, it's the same Marco Rubio who said this about Vladimir Putin when the war started.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARCO RUBIO, UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF STATE: This guy is now almost 70 years old. He realizes he's in the back stretch. He probably feels that his legacy is not yet complete unless he can restore greater Russia, which has to include Ukraine, at least under his thumb.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DEAN: The administration's response to the war is just one of several issues Democrats are now grappling with in this new Trump term.
[23:30:02]
And while there are many issues at hand, my next guest says Ukraine is one that Democrats should not back down from.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL MAHER, HBO POLITICAL TALK SHOW HOST: So far, we have two hills you're not going to die on. Birthright citizenship in plastic straws. Ukraine.
TIM RYAN, FORMER OHIO REPRESENTATIVE, FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I would die on the Ukraine hill.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DEAN: Tim Ryan joins me now, former Democratic congressman from Ohio. Congressman, thanks for being here tonight.
RYAN: Thanks for having me. DEAN: When you see how this administration is approaching these peace talks and when you hear what we just played from President Trump there, suggesting Ukraine is to blame, I'm curious what your reaction is.
RYAN: Well, Ukraine didn't start the war. So clearly, he's misinformed about how this all got going in the first place. I think when you look at how Russia handles his energy with regard to Europe, you know, in all of these other things, in Syria, in the Middle East, helping Iran, all of these things that Russia has had its fingers in, and now to come in and what it looks like and we will see -- we will see what happens, it looks like, you know, Trump is going to do anything to get a deal.
And that deal very well could be we reward really bad behavior, we reward a dictator who's going into a free country, killing and slaughtering innocent people. And to me, I think, you know, Ronald Reagan and George Herbert Walker Bush and John Kennedy, a lot of, you know, patriotic Americans from both parties are rolling over in their grave right now.
DEAN: What kind of precedent is that set?
RYAN: Well, we're out of the precedent setting and blasting of precedents since Trump came in 2016. I mean, there no longer is any precedent, I don't think. It's like whatever Trump feels like in the moment is the right thing. That's what he's going to do. And if he thinks he can get a deal, make peace, regardless of the precedent that it will set for the future, I'm not sure that even crosses his mind.
DEAN: And we played that moment where you told Bill Maher you think Ukraine is a hill Democrats should die on. What does that actually look like and what do you want them to do?
RYAN: Well, when it comes to Ukraine, I'm not exactly sure. It's not -- clearly, it's not an easy one. But I do think it is -- it is a principle one that you have to draw a line in the sand, I guess. That's why I think it's so stupid to be falling on or dying on the hill of USAID or getting involved in every single argument or just chasing Trump around Washington, D.C. for the last month because then when you do have to take a stand, it doesn't have as much power, as much meaning, as much force. And so, I do think you need to stay focused.
But look, do we want to be a country who says it's okay for a really bad guy, the guy that Marco Rubio was just talking about, the pre- confirmed Marco Rubio, do we want to let that guy walk into a free country and take land? When we want someone to do that to us, no, those aren't the basic principles we want to live under.
And so, whether it's support Ukraine to the extent we can to at least raise the threshold of pain for Putin, look, that's out of the question now because Trump is not going to do that. And they already pulled the funding. So, they already tipped their hand to say that, you know, they've increased Putin's negotiating power here because they said we're cutting off funding. DEAN: And I do want to get your thoughts just more broadly on overall democratic strategy right now because I think some Americans and people who consider themselves Democrats are throwing their hands up saying not enough is being done. This is what James Carville recently said. We'll listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES CARVILLE, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST (voice-over): What I think they should do is what we call in rural America, play possum. Just let it go. Don't get in the way of it. Or as we like to say, don't just stand there, do nothing. Let it -- let this germinate. We don't need to be -- we don't need to get in front of it. This freight train is moving. west just get out of the way. And then we're going to have time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DEAN: And we can talk a lot about this. We don't have a ton of time. But I do want to get your thoughts on that idea.
RYAN: I like the rope-a-dope strategy. I think Carville is right because this is what the American people voted for. Let them see what they're going to get. You know, you may have to pick a spot here and there, you know. And I think we should be talking a lot about the economics.
[23:35:00]
So, I think you sit back, let him do what he wants, just like Carville was saying, play rope-a-dope, but start laying the groundwork for the economic argument. Why he focused on all these B.S. while prices of eggs are still high, wages still are going up? Working-class people aren't the focus any more for the Trump administration.
And then when he comes with this four-and-a-half, you know, trillion- dollar tax cut that he's going to pass. That's going to go 85% of the wealthiest people in the country and say, look, there's another -- there's another thing he's doing, that he's not focused on your pocketbook issues.
So, let him go out and do all this stuff down look -- down the line, stay back, but constantly be putting it up the background music on the economy. And then when the time is right, people will draw their own conclusions.
We've tried since '16 to run around with our hair on fire, and that is not to diminish how important this stuff is, saying that judiciary isn't important, saying some of these programs aren't important. That's not to diminish any of that. But what it is saying, do we -- do we want to win elections or do we want to try to be right on every single issue? And I think Carville was right.
DEAN: All right, former Congressman Tim Ryan, thanks so much for your time. We appreciate it.
RYAN: Thanks for having me. DEAN: Still ahead tonight, a judge set to make the DOJ explain why it wants to drop the case against New York City Mayor Eric Adams as Governor Kathy Hochul holds a meeting to discuss his fate. So, will she remove him? What exactly is she waiting on? One of the city leaders who met with her today will join me next.
And later, the video seen around the world, that Delta plane caught on camera crash landing in Toronto. Ahead, why just a few frames of this footage could be critical for investigators.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:40:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DEAN: It is commonly said a picture is worth a thousand words. And without saying a word, this picture reveals the crisis facing New York City Mayor Eric Adams. Governor Kathy Hochul meeting one-on-one with Reverend Al Sharpton and other leaders today. Sources saying Hochul is taking a -- quote -- "careful and measured approach to weigh the future of Adams after the DOJ set off a political firestorm," moving to dismiss the federal charges against him, and saying it interferes with New York's mayoral election and Adams's ability to assist in Trump's immigration crackdown.
Tomorrow, a judge overseeing the case will hold a hearing to discuss the dismissal motion with prosecutors and Adams. Adams is vowing to stay in office. But some lawmakers question if he's now beholden to Trump.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY): It's a deeply disturbing development. Mayor Adams has a responsibility to decisively demonstrate to the people of New York City that he has the capacity to continue to govern in the best interest of New Yorkers, as opposed to taking orders from the Trump administration.
DONOVAN RICHARDS, PRESIDENT, QUEENS BOROUGH: We have to protect our values. And if the mayor can't send a message to us straightforward, that he's going to stand with us to preserve those values, then he may have to step aside.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DEAN: Joining me now, the comptroller for New York City, Brad Lander. He met with Hochul today. He's also running against Adams for the democratic nomination for mayor in New York. Brad, thank you so much for being here with us tonight. First off, I just want to know, based off your conversations today, can you read the tea leaves and see what direction the governor might be headed in?
BRAD LANDER, NEW YORK CITY COMPTROLLER: Look, we're all concerned about how we provide continuity of government. You know, there's going to be a big snowstorm Thursday. Will the sanitation plows be out? Will we be able to get people off the streets so they don't freeze? Will we be able to fight the fires that come in those storms? That's what the governor is focused on. That's what I'm focused on.
We've got to see what happens with Judge Ho tomorrow. I've called on the mayor to deliver a real clear contingency plan. What's he going to do to replace those deputy mayors and guarantee services to New Yorkers? How can we know that he works for us and not for Donald Trump? And that's what we're all waiting to see.
DEAN: Yeah. And some supporters of Adams say that removing him before a judge makes decision on the case violates his right to due process. What do you think about that?
LANDER: Well, I thought he definitely has a right to due process, but that presumes a trial. So, if what he wants to say is, I don't want the dismissal of the case, I want my day in court, I think that's what we were all expecting, and that is what justice in due process would look like.
DEAN: And you mentioned this contingency plan you want to see. You gave the mayor an ultimatum here. You said get that contingency plan together by Friday or you'll be forming what's called the Inability Committee. That's the first step the city council can take toward removing Mayor Adams. What would it take to convince you he should stay on the job until November?
LANDER: Well, first, let's see what happens with Judge Ho because if the case was to proceed or if it was to be dismissed with prejudice, so he wouldn't be being held hostage by Trump for his mass deportations and immigration policy, that would help. If he makes clear, here's how I'm going to replace the deputy mayors who oversee the police, the fire, sanitation, transportation, housing, health and hospitals, here's how I'm going to run the government, then that would show his ability to fulfill his duties as mayor, and that's what I asked of him.
DEAN: It sounds like you want a plan.
LANDER: A plan. Look, New Yorkers have to know their government is going to be there for them, and that their mayor works for them and not for somebody else, and that's what it'll take for him to persuade us that he can do the job.
DEAN: I also, as I noted at the beginning of our interview, you are running against Adams. Are you concerned that people see this, and you're maybe using it to your political advantage?
[23:45:00]
LANDER: Well, look, the four deputy mayors who resigned yesterday were all appointed by the mayor. And the senior deputy mayors in his administration are saying, we don't have confidence here, we feel this is a corrupt bargain, and we can't do our job. So, this is not about me. This is about him and Trump. And again, that Inability Committee has four other people who aren't running for mayor. It's got two- thirds of the city council required. So, you know, it's a hard question. Is he able to fulfill the duties outlined by the city charter and that New Yorkers deserve or is he so compromised by Trump and so damaged by chaos that he can't fulfill his duties? That's a big question, but it is one that New Yorkers want answered.
DEAN: And Adams has been rallying support. He has been blasting people calling for his resignation. I want to listen to a clip from what he said yesterday.
LANDER: Yeah.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAYOR ERIC ADAMS, NEW YORK CITY, NEW YORK: I remember listening to some of Dr. King's teaching. He talked about the book, "Mein Kampf." And he indicated, if you tell a lie long enough, loud enough, people will tend to believe it's true. And that's what you're seeing right now, modern-day Mein Kampf.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DEAN: You are the highest-ranking Jewish elected official in New York City. I want to get your reaction to that.
LANDER: I mean, that's gross. It's offensive, it's anti-Semitic, and it just shows a lack of concern for the real issues. Your deputy mayors all quit. And rather than saying, here's how I'm going to make sure New Yorkers have services, you go quoting Hitler? What's wrong with you?
DEAN: And obviously, you've been a strong critic of Adams, but you are also -- you're pursuing this job. Why do you want this job?
LANDER: I mean, this is the greatest city in the world, but the price of housing is crushing families. We've got a mental health crisis in our subway system. New Yorkers need a government that is delivering a safer, more affordable, and especially a better run New York City. That'll take an honest, effective leader at City Hall. And that's why I think Eric Adams has got to go, and why I'm running to replace him.
DEAN: Okay. And so, to that end, sitting right now, do you think the governor should remove Eric Adams?
LANDER: Well, we need to see what happens in court tomorrow. You know, we need to see where the court case goes. We need to see whether he answers my letter and provides a real contingency plan. We need to see whether he goes into court to get the $80 million that Elon Musk stole from us last week back, and whether he works for us or Donald Trump. So, we've got to see those things before we can take next steps.
DEAN: And quickly, how long are you willing to give him to do that?
LANDER: Well, I asked for that contingency plan by Friday.
DEAN: Right. So, this is a Friday deadline. Pure and simple. LANDER: Yeah.
DEAN: All right, Brad Lander, thanks so much for being with us.
LANDER: Thank you.
DEAN: Up next, the crash landing in Toronto caught on camera. So, what went wrong? A former pilot is looking at that video frame by frame and weighing in. That's next. Plus, not guilty. The must-see moment in court as rapper A$AP Rocky gets acquitted of assault and leaps into Rihanna's arms.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:50:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DEAN: New tonight, recording artist A$AP Rocky found not guilty of two felony counts of assault with a semi-automatic firearm today in a Los Angeles courtroom. Rocky and his partner, superstar Rihanna, seen outside of court celebrating that verdict, giving Rocky's lawyer, Joe Tacopina, a new honorific.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE TACOPINA, ATTORNEY FOR A$AP ROCKY: Rakim Rocky is one of my closest friends, but he's also just a great, great person. Rihanna --
A$AP ROCKY, RAPPER: (INAUDIBLE).
(LAUGHTER)
TACOPINA: They are -- they are seriously the greatest people. And I said I love them, and I really do love them. And I got emotional in my summation because I care about them. This is one of the happiest days of my life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DEAN: CNN's Elizabeth Wagmeister has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNKNOWN: Find a defendant, Rakim Mayers, not guilty.
(APPLAUSE)
ELIZABETH WAGMEISTER, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A not guilty verdict sent rapper A$AP Rocky leaping into the arms of superstar Rihanna. It's the end of a case that began in 2021 with a confrontation in the middle of Hollywood. Shots fired, prosecutors say, near the famed Pantages Theater. One of the men involved?
(MUSIC PLAYING) The Grammy-nominated rapper A$AP Rocky. His family is world famous. His partner is singer and billionaire businesswoman Rihanna. The couple have two young children.
UNKNOWN: He doesn't get to be the big celebrity in a jury trial.
WAGMEISTER (voice-over): Prosecutors allege a deteriorating relationship between A$AP Rocky, whose real name is Rakim Mayers, and former friend, Terrell Ephron, known as A$AP Relli, led to the confrontation. Prosecutors say Rocky fired two shots, one grazing Relli's knuckles.
The defense says Rocky merely had a prop gun that fired blanks, which she was known to carry for security. No weapon was recovered and police found no shell casings until Relli says he returned to the scene to find two from a handgun.
TACOPINA: Impossible for them to miss that seven officers. Two minutes. Searchlights. Impossible.
JOHN LEWIN, DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY, LOS ANGELES COUNTY: If the defense position was prop gun is correct, there should have been casings there from the prop gun. There weren't.
WAGMEISTER (voice-over): The defense paints Relli as a jealous man out for money. He also filed a civil suit seeking millions of dollars.
TACOPINA: This isn't about justice for him. It's about a payout and payback.
WAGMEISTER (voice-over): Rihanna herself present in the courtroom several times with the couple's two children.
[23:55:00]
Her name brought up during closing arguments. The defense pointing to an article the alleged victim sent to a friend.
TACOPINA: Entitled, Rihanna fears heartbreaking consequence of A$AP Rocky's upcoming trial. And he sent it with a smiley face. This parasite is hacking. If he can hurt (INAUDIBLE).
WAGMEISTER (voice-over): It's a classic Hollywood courtroom battle led by two high-profile lawyers. Prosecutor John Lewin, featured on HBO's "The Jinx."
LEWIN: Bob is going to flee the country.
WAGMEISTER (voice-over): And Joe Tacopina, a New York defense attorney who rep President Trump for a time during his hush money trial. The pair creating plenty of courtroom theater.
LEWIN: He might want to stop.
TACOPINA: Oh, I'm so threatened.
LEWIN: You should be, you know.
WAGMEISTER (voice-over): But the unforgettable drama of this trial came at the very end.
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WAGMEISTER (on camera): Now, Jessica, that was truly a stunning moment inside the courtroom as A$AP Rocky leaped right into the gallery, straight into Rihanna's arms. But you can understand his sense of relief if convicted on both counts. ASAP was facing up to 24 years behind bars. Jessica?
DEAN: All right, Elizabeth Wagmeister, thank you very much for that. New video from both inside and outside that Delta flight that crashed and rolled over at Toronto Pearson International Airport. Officials still won't say what caused the crash because the investigation is still in its early stages.
But the video that gives us this invaluable insight into what happened, first, the video shows the moment the plane touches the ground, rolling over to one side, which appears to cause the wing to rip off. And then you see the fireball erupting. And it all ends with the plane's landing gear facing the sky.
Commercial pilot and flight instructor Aaron Murphy telling CNN today --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AARON MURPHY, CANADIAN COMMERCIAL PILOT, FLIGHT INSTRUCTOR: The thing that I'm seeing on that approach is what we call a stabilized approach. It looks fine with the wind gusts and the conditions that we had that day. I would expect to see the aircraft struggling to maintain wings level. We should see a lot of roll inputs.
It looked incredibly stable to me all the way down to the very last seconds of that approach and landing. And it's almost as if they picked up some kind of a downward gust or maybe a gust had suddenly stopped at the time of landing and kind of dropped out the bottom of the aircraft. The aircraft seems to have just dropped to the runway suddenly, and that really struck me as odd.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DEAN: Then there's this other new video showing what all of it looked like from inside the crashed plane. Passengers, you see, they're still strapped into their seats, hanging upside down like bats. Former inspector general at the Department of Transportation, Mary Schiavo, talking earlier today about what may have happened. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARY SCHIAVO, CNN AVIATION ANALYST, FORMER INSPECTOR GENERAL OF U.S. DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION: They were getting gusts of wind as they were coming down, and they smacked down pretty hard, according to eyewitness or the ear witness reports and those people on the plane, right at the end of the threshold of the runway. And at that point, what looks like might have happened from very grainy videotape from other cameras is the landing gear, the rear gear, might have snapped off at that point, along with the right wing, which with the left wing still on the plane, lifts the plane, causing the plane to roll.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DEAN: And tonight, we're hearing a new account from a passenger who describes just how harrowing the crash was.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETER CARLSON, PASSENGER WHO SURVIVED DELTA CRASH: You could see kind of row by row or area by area, people were checking one another out, making decisions about whether we would help one another with their straps or if by doing that, would they be landing on somebody else? And then we looked over and the windows were just -- there was just liquid pouring over the, you know, small windows.
And suddenly, it smelled very strong of what I heard people later call AV gas. We all made our way kind of, I don't know, six to eight feet, and then climbed out. It felt like I was stepping onto the tundra. The most powerful part of today was there was just people. No countries, no nothing. It was just people together helping each other.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DEAN: Officials saying today 19 of the 21 hospitalized in that crash have been released. And new tonight, CNN has learned attorneys for Diddy are once again trying to get his federal case dismissed. The reason this time? His attorneys are arguing the prosecution has been racist. They just filed this tonight. Quote -- "The case is unprecedented in many ways, but perhaps most notably and most disturbingly, no white person has ever been the target of a remotely similar prosecution"
CNN has reached out to Diddy's attorneys for comment, but as of tonight, we have not heard back.
[00:00:00]
I want to say thanks so much for watching tonight. "Anderson Cooper 360" is next. Have a great evening.
