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Laura Coates Live

Laura Coates and Guests Discuss the Latest in the Federal Trial of Sean "Diddy" Combs; Diddy's Inner Circle Comes into Focus as Testimony Continues; Powerhouse Legal Teams Face Off in Courtroom Battle; Entertainment Industry Grapples with Diddy's Trial. Aired 11p- 12a ET

Aired May 16, 2025 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[23:00:00]

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ABBY PHILLIP, CNN HOST: A quick programming note. Don't miss an all- new episode of "My Happy Place" this Sunday with actor Billy Porter.

And thank you for watching "NewsNight." "Laura Coates Live" starts right now.

LAURA COATES, CNN HOST: Good evening, everyone, and welcome to a special edition of "Laura Coates Live: Diddy on Trial." The first week of the criminal trial of Sean "Diddy" Combs is officially in the history books. And day five may have been the most emotional day that we've seen yet. Cassie Ventura's testimony wrapped up in quite the dramatic fashion after being on the stand for nearly 20 grueling hours over four days.

Just a sec, my team of legal experts and court insiders will unpack the emotion and unpack the evidence, and what Cassie's testimony might mean for the case.

The jury certainly has a lot to weigh after everything that played out today. Cassie burst into tears near the very end of her time on the stand. It was a shocking moment. It revealed the -- the huge toll of a years-long, tumultuous, and violent relationship. The defense also tried to challenge Cassie's rape testimony by questioning her timeline of when she says it occurred.

And we heard from a new witness, former Danity Kane singer Dawn Rashard, who testified she saw Diddy get violent with Cassie firsthand by attacking her with a skillet.

Now, moment when Cassie broke down, well, that came during the prosecution's redirect, when she was asked about the $20 million settlement with Diddy. Here's what Cassie said as she began to cry. Quote -- "I'd give that money back if I never had to have "freak- offs." If I never had to have "freak-offs," I would have had agency and autonomy. And I wouldn't have had to work so hard to get it back."

Now, just before that moment, the defense had tried to undercut Cassie's rape allegation. Now, she had said in earlier testimony that it happened in August 2018. But the defense pointed out that her civil lawsuit says it was in September. The prosecution later tried to address the inconsistency, asking Cassie -- quote -- "Do you have any doubt that Sean raped you?" Cassie replied, "No."

Once the question was over, you know, Cassie still had something to say. She put out a statement through her lawyer, who read it after she got off the stand.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DOUGLAS WIGDOR, CASSIE VENTURA'S ATTORNEY: This week has been extremely challenging, but also remarkably empowering and healing for me. I hope that my testimony has given strength and a voice to other survivors, and can help others who have suffered to speak up and also heal from abuse and fear. For me, the more I heal, the more I can remember. And the more I can remember, the more I will never forget.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: The prosecution called two other witnesses after Cassie Ventura wrapped up, and one of them was singer Dawn Richard. Now, she was a member of Danity Kane, remember, the girl group that Diddy started in 2005 for the reality show "Making the Band."

She testified she saw Cassie get attacked by Diddy in 2009. And she says she and Cassie were in the kitchen. And then this happened. Quote -- "He came downstairs angry and was saying, 'where the 'F' was his eggs' and he was telling Cassie she never gets anything right and where the 'F' was his food. And he came over to the skillet with the eggs in it and tried to hit her over the head and she fell to the ground."

She said it looked like Cassie dropped to the ground anticipating the blow. Michelle will finish giving testimony next week. Prosecutors say that Cassie's former best friend is also expected to take the stand next. Cassie's mother is also going to be testifying, we're told.

Well, joining me now is executive editor for Deadline Hollywood, Dominic Patten. He was inside of that courtroom today. Dominic, this has been an unbelievable week of many bombshell moments. But then there was a final bombshell moment to conclude the week with Dawn Richard from Big Diddy's brand band, Danity Kane, brutally recounting a moment where Diddy beat Cassie.

[23:05:03]

What was the reaction in the courtroom?

DOMINIC PATTEN, EXECUTIVE EDITOR, DEADLINE HOLLYWOOD: I think that that reaction -- you know, Laura, it was -- it was a strange reaction because the courtroom was already dealing in some ways with the shock of what had happened just a little earlier when the revelation came about Cassie Ventura receiving or about to receive a $10 million settlement from the InterContinental Hotel in Los Angeles which, of course, is where the terrible beating and kicking incident of 2016 that we've seen on the security cameras occurred. There were gasps in the -- in the courtroom when that happened.

COATES: Hmm.

PATTEN: When Dawn Richard spoke, there was almost --

COATES: Wait. Hold on. From the jury as well or people who were in the courtroom itself?

PATTEN: In the courtroom itself. From where I was -- where I was sitting, it was hard to see what the jury's reaction were, but there was almost like a little bit of a taken back. If you recall, the other day, when some of the images from the "freak-off" video still photography was shown, that is sealed to anyone but the jury, and the witness were shown, some of the jurors could be seen to be a little shocked, hand on the heart, standing back a little bit. This was not that.

But that 10 million, we'll put it this way. One of Diddy's most popular songs back in the day was all about the Benjamins, and that is clearly what the defense are trying to do.

And what seemed to me, in many ways, to be a meandering -- well, actually, not just my opinion, that of the judge who reprimanded them about it more than once today -- a meandering, almost confusing sequence, that suddenly ended around 2:30, and then they came back pressing her.

Cassie, as you pointed out throughout the week and others had, has been an excellent witness. On message, concise, keeping to her -- keeping to her story, revealing herself, being vulnerable. Amazing.

But when this happened with the 10 million, it was like suddenly, the teleprompter was gone or the script was gone. She stuttered. She said she didn't know how much it was. When they -- when the defense lawyer told her it was 10 million, she then tried to say, well, yeah, but I don't actually have the money yet, I'm getting it later.

You could tell that they were trying very hard with this 11th-hour revelation to undermine her credibility, and it certainly left the impression that it had an effect in that courtroom. Absolutely.

COATES: Hmm. Now, that's really interesting and revealing given the defense's theory of their case and what they're trying to do to undermine the prosecution.

And part of that credibility issue that they're trying to raise is about that questioned rape allegation. I mean, it was a very emotional day. She testified. She grew at times even more emotional. And when she was questioned about a rape allegation that she made against Diddy, they questioned the date and the timing, giving that civil lawsuit. What else stood out to you today in court?

PATTEN: Well, I mean, I think that the thing that came out, you know, every day, we've seen a little bit of information, giving a little bit, pulling back the veil a little bit. Today, there were two that particularly struck me before the 10 million one. And I can't -- I can't emphasize that one enough.

I really think, in terms of credibility, in terms of asking, what did you -- you know, all these questions that you heard throughout the week, too. What did you get out of this lifestyle with Sean Combs? What was in it for you? Didn't it help your career? Didn't you get to work with a lot of famous people, etcetera, etcetera? Isn't that how you met Kid Cudi? A lot of that. Building a narrative here.

But what was interesting is one -- two things today. One, that Cassie talked about the PTSD that she suffered from and that she got treatment for when she was at the rehab and trauma therapy facility in Arizona.

And then when one of the defense lawyers talked about Sean Combs in terms of that day, when the alleged rape happened in 2018, and talked about the dinner that the two of them had, which Cassie had previously referred to as a closure conversation, she has talked about how great Sean Combs was at the dinner in Malibu. But then the defense lawyer suddenly said, yes, but wasn't he acting a little strangely, maybe nice, but strange? Cassie kind of confirmed that.

Again, I think playing into their theory that it's not Sean Combs who's doing these horrible things, it's Sean Combs on drugs who's doing these horrible things. And then the defense lawyer mentioned, well, that's his bipolar disorder, isn't it? Suddenly, that appeared.

COATES: There is so much to unpack. I'm sure this jury on this Friday evening are trying to review all that they learned this week. And this is an 8 to 10-week trial. They've got to not only keep this in their brains, they've got to process and evaluate and, of course, in the end, render a verdict.

Dominic, thank you so much for joining. You can read more of his reporting over at deadline.com. Dominic Patten, thank you so much.

Back with me tonight, CNN legal analyst and criminal defense attorney Joey Jackson, former New York Assistant D.A. Deanna Paul, and former federal prosecutor Neama Rahmani. Glad to have you all here.

Let me first begin with this part of it, Joey, because to what Dominic was mentioning, this $10 million that she is expecting to receive from the InterContinental Hotel in L.A., the defense obviously wants to portray Ventura as a money grabber.

But the fact that she had already received the settlement payment of that 20 million with Sean "Diddy" Combs where some people said, well, that essentially means that she's not out there, she doesn't engage, she already received the money, the fact that she's expecting to receive money in the other instance, does that somehow change the scale or calculus for you as defense?

[23:10:07]

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes. So, Laura, the defense is going use what they have, and that's what they have, and they'll try to use it to great effect. Ultimately, it'll be up to the jury to determine whether or not it moves the needle for them and with her credibility.

Some on the jury may say 10 million isn't enough and the 20 million isn't enough. And for what she endured, she should get more or it should be irrelevant. And this guy is a monster. You may have other people on the jury saying, wow, she's motivated by bias, she certainly was jealous of his relationship with Kim Porter, she can't be trusted, she can't be believed, this is all about the money.

So, you have to believe that on a 12-person jury, there's going to be divergent views.

But I believe, at the end of the day, what has to be the focus is the evidence. And remember, we're talking about, number one, a racketeering case. She lays a lot of foundation for that. Why? Because racketeering is about bad behavior. It's not only about domestic violence, it's about guns. She talked about that. It's about drugs. We heard a lot about that. It's about coerced sexual behavior, an awful lot about that.

With respect to the trafficking, again, coercion. All right, was it a coercion or was this a lifestyle that the defense is trying to suggest that she was completely on board with, and not only was she okay with it, but she helped orchestrate it and seemed to thrive and enjoy it. Right? That's going to be the defense's perspective.

COATES: Yeah.

JACKSON: And then, finally, as it relates to prostitution, there's all this evidence about him flying in prostitutes from everywhere, you know, pictures of these prostitutes, etcetera.

COATES: Uh-hmm.

JACKSON: So, one witness, Laura, we know, right, a case does not make, but she lays a strong foundation with respect to other evidence to come, and all this stuff about the money will certainly be fodder for the defense to use to attack her credibility and motivations.

COATES: Deanna, let me turn to you about this because the idea of the rape allegations that she made about Diddy, the dates, there's a discrepancy between what she said in open court and what she says happened in a civil lawsuit. And the defense is trying to poke holes in that very notion. The attorney claiming that she told an investigator she was raped in September of 2018, not in August of that year. This is part of their attack on her credibility. Have they made some headway there?

DEANNA PAUL, TRIAL LAWYER, FORMER NEW YORK ASSISTANT D.A.: Laura, I think the purpose of the whole cross-examination that we saw today were poking holes and inconsistencies in her testimony. So, like, the date that she got wronged. They also went at length into the fact that she had consensual sex with Sean Combs about a month after the alleged rape.

But I think the main takeaway from her cross-examination -- on direct examination, she talks about this relationship of abuse and control and coercion. And I think finishing today, it seems as if that was really a cherrypicked version of their relationship.

On cross examination, we learned that, in fact, she sometimes suggested the "freak-offs." I think her -- her words, I have here. "I was always ready to freak-off." "Baby, I want to freak-off so bad." "Let's have a freak-off with a girl."

And so, I think it's -- it's one thing to participate because you fear that your relationship is -- it's one thing to participate because you -- you fear your safety. And that's coercion, like Joey was just talking about, which is an element of sex trafficking. It's an entirely different thing to participate because you're worried that your boyfriend is going to leave you if you don't participate.

That's just evidence of a complicated relationship, and that actually shows that Cassie had control and it -- that it was consensual.

COATES: And that's an interesting perception of it. The jurors are going to be considering -- they're going to be weighing all of this. And again, the prosecution, Neama, as you well know, has already said even in opening statements, you're going to get information here and there, it will not be chronological. They're going to have to tie all this together because there are five felony counts, and not one of which is a stand-alone count of assault.

Prosecutors are trying, Neama, to shore up her testimony, of course, about her desire to be a part of these "freak-offs." And Ventura is saying that she was open to them at the beginning but -- quote -- "I worried for my safety, I worried for my career. But I also was in love with him, so I worried that he wouldn't want to be with me anymore."

To Deanna's point, does the fact that there may have been more than one motivation to participate in these "freak-offs" undermine the -- the prosecution's case?

NEAMA RAHMANI, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR, PRESIDENT OF WEST COAST TRIAL LAWYERS: Potentially, yes. But here's the important part, Laura. Even if Cassie participated in more than 100 "freak-offs," we've seen a video of her trying to flee, at least one. The prosecution just needs one. And it's pretty clear, in 2016, she was trying to leave a "freak-off," and she was brutally attacked, punched, kicked, dragged by the hair.

And guess what? Dawn Richard is telling a same story. Right? Her being hit, kicked when she's in a fetal position, and now hit with a frying pan.

So, you're corroborating witnesses that show the physical violence.

[23:15:00]

And if you're the government, you want to tie that physical violence to the sex trafficking. That's the force element. You're going to tie the drugs to the coercion.

And like Joey said, prostitution, I think, is a layup here. And I think racketeering, there's a lot of ways you can get there even if you can't prove the sex trafficking.

But even the sex trafficking itself, which is probably the most challenging charge, also the most serious, I think you can argue with a straight face and with credibility to the jury that at least in that one instance, believe your own eyes, ladies and gentlemen, she did not want to participate in that particular "freak-off." Return a guilty verdict here.

COATES: Standby, everyone. We are weeks away from even that request for a verdict. And think about the jurors who have to keep all of this straight, bridge the gap, connect the dots, and decide how they feel. So much more to get to tonight, including the defense's efforts to explain away Diddy's behavior. We've heard about the drugs. We've heard about the jealousy. But now, the defense is saying that he is bipolar. Could the claim make a difference in court?

Plus, the prosecution says Diddy had help and that he didn't act alone, hence the racketeering. How are they going to prove that? One of Diddy's former personal assistants is standing by with her perspective, next.

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COATES: Well, witness tampering is top of mind for the prosecution in Diddy's trial. Prosecutors telling the judge that they do not want to reveal too far in advance who they plan to call next to the stand.

That hasn't stopped speculation about who will testify in this high- profile case, including former Danity Kane singer Aubrey O'Day. O'Day posted on social media that she was in New York this week. She has publicly supported Cassie and was one of the first to speak out against Diddy back in 2022.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AUBREY O'DAY, SINGER (voice-over): I wasn't willing to do what was expected of me.

ALEX COOPER, PODCASTER (voice-over): Hmm.

O'DAY (voice-over): Not talent wise, but in other areas.

COOPER (voice-over): Uh-hmm. And were other girls doing?

O'DAY (voice-over): I was the only one that was in those types of positions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Joining me now is Suzanne "Suzi" Siegel. She was a personal assistant to Diddy in 2008 and 2009. Susie, welcome back. I mean, we don't know for sure if Aubrey O'Day, in fact, will testify, but there are some reports that she will. Why is she so important, in your opinion?

SUZANNE "SUZI" SIEGEL, DIDDY'S FORMER ASSISTANT: I think she's important because she came to Puffy's sort of circle through a reality show. And she also has been somebody who has been the most outspoken prior to the tape coming out of Cassie getting beaten. She was super vocal about how he railroaded her career and was abusive and nobody really was giving her time of day. And now, she's potentially getting called by the feds.

So, I think it's possible she really did see something and experienced something, and I think it's going to be an important testimony if she does come to trial.

COATES: That context would be so important because again, there's a -- there's a similarity in that. Cassie Ventura believed that her livelihood was completely in the hands of Diddy because of contacts, because of record deals, and, of course, we remember "Making the Band" and when Danity Kane first emerged.

They did have a member, though, who testified today, Dawn Richard. She started testimony, saying that she saw Combs attack Cassie Ventura in 2009. Did you have any idea about that incident?

SIEGEL: I had no idea. I was working for Puff as his assistant in 2008 and 2009. I knew that they just hung out together and socialized together, but I had never heard that -- that that had happened.

COATES: Did you ever hear or see any acts of violence between the two of them, Cassie and Diddy, or learn that people believe that he was violent towards anyone in a relationship sense?

SIEGEL: I never heard that. I saw them together on multiple occasions in the studio, getting ready for various events, rode in limos with them, went to parties with them. I never saw any violence between them.

COATES: There has been a lot of text messages that we have seen, communications we have seen as well. They were through the defense. Some worked through the prosecution as well. But the defense's introduction of that evidence was trying to show a loving, consensual adult relationship. Was that what you saw when you were around the couple or did you have some misgivings?

SIEGEL: I wouldn't say I had misgivings, but I think it's ridiculous to look through 15 years of text messages and expect everything to be consistent or transparent. I think when you're in a violent abusive relationship, like I believe that she was, she's going to hide things, she's going to want to please him. She could sometimes feel that she loves him. At other times, she could be scared of him.

So, I'm not surprised at all that there's inconsistencies in the text message because if you've ever known anybody who has been in an abusive relationship, this is the type of sort of back and forth that you're going to see. So, for me, it doesn't poke any holes in what her allegations are at all. COATES: What about the allegations that she was extremely jealous of Kim Porter, who tragically died several years ago after contracting pneumonia, the mother of several of his children?

SIEGEL: So, when I worked for Puffy back in 2008 and 2009, his relationship was officially over with Kim Porter, who was the mother of his children.

[23:25:00]

So, obviously, he was very involved in his children's lives and spent holidays with Kim. So, I sort of thought that maybe he was with both of them. I wasn't sure. But to me, I saw Kim Porter as sort of the mother wife who had been around and had a lot of history, and I saw Cassie as sort of the shiny new thing in many ways. That's where his attention was going. So, I thought more maybe that Kim was actually jealous of Cassie. I don't know. I'm not sure.

And I knew that his staff -- we were involved in sort of orchestrating logistics for both of them and doing travel. And I remember, once, they were both accidentally meant to sort of change aircraft in a -- in a very small airport together, and there was sort of this 911 among his assistants to make sure that they didn't see each other at the same time.

So, there was some kind of a beef intention. But I really assumed that it was -- it was probably Kim who was jealous of Cassie. But I don't know. Nobody talked to me about this, obviously.

COATES: Really quick, what was your understanding of what might happen if the two of them did interact in that airport?

SIEGEL: I mean, I would assume it would have been bad for Puff, to be honest with you. And so, because the -- our job was to protect Puff. And he was the one who was paying for us, and he was the one that we were loyal to in many ways. Right? There was, of course, these women who we respected, who were in his circle, but he was the boss.

So, the idea is you wouldn't want to get him mad by making a major snafu by having the two of the closest women in his life potentially intersect in an airport. That would have been bad for us, not because of what could have potentially jumped off between them, but because we knew it wouldn't make Mr. Combs happy.

COATES: Suzi Siegel, there's so much more to all of this. I appreciate you giving us your insight. Thank you.

SIEGEL: Thank you.

COATES: Still ahead, the witness list starting -- starting to fill out. What it tells us about what the prosecution is heading and where they're going with it, next.

Plus, this case has something interesting about who are the lawyers, who was involved, many of them with ties to some of the most high- profile cases around. So, who's who? Our Kara Scannell is going to break it all down for us, next.

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COATES: The Diddy trial is drawing some pretty big names to the witness stand, but they're not the only ones bringing celebrity power to the court. CNN's Kara Scannell has been digging around into the star-studded legal teams on both sides. Kara?

KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Laura, there's a lot of legal firepower in this case. If you look at the prosecution team, it is six female prosecutors, which is an important signal in a case about sex trafficking. They are all experienced and worked on a range of cases, including financial crimes, sex trafficking crimes, and others.

Their lead attorney is Maureen Comey. She was -- is Jim Comey, the former FBI director's daughter. But she has made a name for herself in the Southern District Of New York as a prosecutor. And she has worked on other sex trafficking cases, notably the prosecution of Ghislaine Maxwell, who was Jeffrey Epstein's former lover and also accomplice on sex trafficking. She was convicted and Comey was critical in that trial.

Now, on the defense team, Diddy has a number of attorneys, including some that he had brought on to this case just before it began. A number of them joined in the -- just the weeks before the trial.

His lead attorney is Marc Agnifilo. Marc Agnifilo has also experience in sex trafficking cases. He represented Keith Raniere, the founder of NXIVM, who was convicted of sex trafficking and a number of other crimes. He also represented Martin Shkreli who's known as the "Pharma Bro." And he and his wife, Karen Friedman Agnifilo, are representing Luigi Mangione, the 26-year-old who is accused of gunning down the UnitedHealthcare CEO last year. He has pleaded not guilty. That trial is expected to come up soon.

And he's also joined by these other attorneys who are very experienced. Brian Steel. He's a well-known Atlanta criminal defense lawyer. He represented rapper Young Thug in his racketeering case.

Alexandra Shapiro. She has represented Sam Bankman-Fried. She's a very well-known appellate attorney. She has handled a lot of evidentiary issues and legal issues all leading up to the trial.

And Teny Geragos. She is the attorney who did Combs's opening statement. She has worked with Agnifilo a long time, also represented Keith Raniere, and she is the daughter of celebrity attorney Mark Geragos.

This is Combs's legal team, really beefed up in the last few weeks.

Both of them are working their angles, trying to get the -- convince the jury to hear the evidence the way that they see it and get the jury to believe their theories of the case. But ultimately, it will be up to the jury to decide Sean Combs's legal fate. Laura?

COATES: Kara Scannell, thank you for that. Really, I'm thinking about all of the people who are behind on both sides.

My panel is back with me now. Joey, these are some pretty powerful attorneys with a lot of experience collectively. But sometimes, you know, there can be too many cooks in the kitchen. Tell me what that dynamic would be like when there are so many pro high-profile attorneys on the team.

JACKSON: Yeah, a lot of attorneys, lot of talent, a lot of strategic decisions that need to be made in the war room, of course, where things occur. And so, listen, it's very difficult for the three of us, four of us attorneys on this panel to agree about anything.

[23:35:00]

You could imagine if it was eight and we're talking about trial strategy. But at the end of the day, I think the essence is very clear. They have to look to these racketeering charges and demonstrate to the jury, this is not racketeering, this is not mobster behavior, this is a complete overreach as it relates to that, and hope that prosecutors don't have enough to sew in all of these issues in terms of obstruction of justice and bribery and arson and kidnapping, etcetera.

And it's going to be difficult, I think, in terms of the prostitution charge, the stand-alone charge, the Mann Act, because all you have to prove is that you really transported someone interstate for purposes of engaging in prostitution. And so that seems to be pretty straightforward.

So, I think the essence of it is the 15-year mandatory minimum, which they're really looking to attack, and that is, was it a coercion or was it consent? Was it a freaky relationship or was compulsion and control?

So, no matter who the lawyers are and what the strategies are, if they get that right, they have a chance, Laura. If they don't get that right, then there will be problems for sure.

COATES: Well, one of the things that the defense is trying to raise, Neama, is that they're hinting -- more than hinting, but they're hinting that Combs may have bipolar disorder, and they specifically brought that up when Ventura testified about the alleged rape in 2018. What is behind this effort to introduce this particular aspect? Are they gunning for a mental health defense of some sort?

RAHMANI: Laura, this is a blatant sympathy play, and we've seen it from the beginning of the trial. You have Combs's family members in the gallery. Right? Some jurors might be hesitant to send someone's son or father to prison. Then you have the way Combs is dressed.

He's wearing the beige sweater. Right? He's looking like Luigi Mangione. He's not wearing the power suit there in court. The defense wants to paint a picture of a more humble, softer Sean "Diddy" Combs. And then what about his addiction to opioids and the withdrawal?

So, every day, you're seeing one of these nuggets dropped by the defense. Really has nothing to do with the facts or the evidence in the case. But they're trying to play that sympathy card, and I think they know that they're behind.

And one of the reports that came out today was that, read in Rolling Stone, his team is reaching out to the Trump administration. They're trying to get a pardon in this case. So, I think they realized that they're trailing and it's just going to get worse for them. We're going to see more and more of this as the trial continues.

COATES: We'll have to follow that if that's indeed true. But, Deanna, what if there is evidence to support state of mind, the idea of bipolar disorder or -- obviously, they're talking about -- they believe he was not in his right mind on drugs. Would any of that be helpful for the defense in trying to cut this prosecution's case?

PAUL: I actually think that bringing up the bipolar disorder is a total red herring. It's something we --

COATES: Hmm.

PAUL: They also asked Cassie about an overdose that Sean Combs had. Like you said, it went directly to whether or not he was in his right mind. But at the end of the day, this isn't a domestic abuse case, this isn't a rape case, and that's directly what those questions went to. It's a racketeering case. It's a sex trafficking case.

And so, whether or not he was in his right mind in the moment where he domestically abused her or on the night of the alleged rape is somewhat irrelevant to the sex trafficking and racketeering charges.

COATES: Well, they're trying to argue, I would assume, that he is an addict who can't control himself, not a mastermind of, you know, an enterprise for the RICO purpose.

But you all make really strong points about how the prosecution and the defense are trying to balance what they believe the jurors might think in the long run when it comes to any -- all -- all these details. And then, of course, there's the testimony that we're going to hear more about in the days to come. We're only in the first week of trial.

Real quick, Joey, let me ask you. In the testimony that's coming up, quickly, who do you think is going to be their star corroborator? Is it somebody who has witnessed violence or is it somebody who can talk about Sean "Diddy" Combs as the -- at the helm of his enterprise or his operations?

JACKSON: Yeah. You know, Laura, I think they have to get all of that. First of all, they have to get these receipts together with respect to the interstate travel. They have to show more with regard to what he was doing to influence witness testimony, to not speak with respect to what was happening. They have to show what this organization he was -- what would -- excuse me, was all about. Who were the people who are enabling him and orchestrating and scheduling all of these things?

I think they have to show more about the prostitution issues and who they were transporting and how they were transporting and who was in control of that. And I think if they do all that, then certainly, prosecutors could make a big leap forward.

But remember, last point, they'll bring in other victims with regard to the coercion. I don't hear that as it relates to Cassie.

[23:40:00]

We're going to hear that as it relates to victim two and victim three. Coercion, coercion versus consent. Was he freaky and had this relationship with everyone, or was he compelling everyone? Hmm, that's what the critical question is going to be.

COATES: We'll see what week two brings. Thank you, everyone, so much.

Hey, you know, it's the question that keeps coming up. If Diddy allegedly carried out this so-called criminal enterprise for so long, why did no one in the entertainment industry say anything, at least, publicly? One reporter has been trying to find that answer and interviewed more than two dozen industry insiders for a stunning must- read piece. You know what? He will join me, next.

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[23:45:00]

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COATES: Well, the lines have been stretching around the block to get into the Diddy trial. People are lining up overnight for a chance to even get in. And online, people are leaning in. TikTok becoming a destination for updates, perspectives and, yes, opinions about the trial and all of its sorted details.

For Diddy, all that matters right now is what those 12 jurors might think. But one thing is clear. His brand in the court of public opinion has taken a major slide.

CNN's Harry Enten ran the numbers. What can you tell us, Harry?

HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: Hey, Laura. The Sean Combs trial and the charges against him have had a massive impact on Sean Combs. We can see this first off in his popularity. It is absolutely plummeting amongst the American public.

Look at this. Sean Combs has net popularity rating back in April of 2024 before the charges were filed. Get this. He was in positive territory at plus nine. But look at where he stands today. My goodness. Down to minus 54. That is a 60 -- in fact, over a 60-point drop in just about a year. You rarely ever see this type of drop, but it turns out that the charges and the trial against Combs have had a devastating effect on his popularity rating. But it's not just his popularity rating where we've seen a decline for Sean Combs. It's also in his wealth. Take a look here. Sean Combs's net worth. Back in 2022, long before the charges were filed, his net worth was a billion dollars. He was a billionaire. Look at where he is now in December of 2024 after the charges were filed but, of course, before the trial began. His net worth, down to $300 million. Now, that's still a significant chunk of change, but it's only about a third of where he was back in 2022.

Now, of course, we've talked about where Combs has declined. We're talking about his popularity. We're talking about as well. But something in which we've actually seen an upswing is interest incomes. There's a ton of folks who are interested in this case and the ultimate outcome of it. We can see this here in May Google searches for Sean Combs. Look at this. Up 880% versus the average month. That is through the roof.

So, of course, this is just another sign of the interest in this trial. We've seen it, of course, in the lines for folks to get in a court on any given day, and it turns out that extends to the public at large. Of course, those folks are interested in the trial because they want to find out what happens to Sean Combs. We're just going to have to wait and see on that. That will be up to the 12 jurors. Which way they ultimately go, I don't have numbers for that, but we'll have to wait and see. Laura, back to you.

COATES: Oh, Harry. If they had numbers for that, everyone wants to know. Thank you so much. What does the Diddy trial reveal, though, more broadly about the culture within the music industry?

Well, Cassie's close friend, songwriter Tiffany Red, told my next guest -- quote -- "This is not a Diddy story. This is an abuse in music story. The only reason he's the main character is because he's famous and Cassie is famous. But what happened with Diddy is business as usual" -- unquote.

Joining me now is Geoff Edgers. He is a national arts reporter for "The Washington Post," who interviewed about 50 different people connected to the entertainment business for his latest piece, which explores some of the systemic issues that he says have enabled abuse in the music industry for years.

Geoff, it's a really compelling piece. I want to unpack it with you. But the -- I've heard so many through your article and through your piece, including instances like this. When you asked John Legend's longtime manager, Ty Stiklorius, about the hotel surveillance video that showed Diddy assaulting Cassie in 2016, and her response was -- quote -- "none of it surprised me," I mean, how -- how often do you hear this from women working in the music industry?

GEOFF EDGERS, NATIONAL ARTS REPORTER, THE WASHINGTON POST: Well, there are multiple levels of this. And I'll just tell you -- I -- I would frame this around another famous case, obviously, R. Kelly.

COATES: Uh-hmm. EDGERS: In 2018, I did a very, very involved story about R. Kelly because for me -- I'm 54 and, like, I thought I -- I remember what Aaliyah went through, I remember when that was, and I thought, how could that have occurred in 1994? She got married to him, you know, when she was 15 years old. And yet for decades, that guy continued to -- to thrive.

And the reality is, whether it's a legal document or it's just a threat or it's just the fear that your career will be over, when you're in the entertainment industry, generally, you're going to think, I better not speak up.

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Even on this story, you know, with -- with Sean Combs, you know, his reputation totally destroyed, I would still talk to people in the music industry who are working there now, who had stories to tell, who were scared to tell them because of the repercussions. And when I say scared to tell them, I mean women.

COATES: Talk to me about the use of these nondisclosure agreements to shield the public's knowledge about this kind of abuse.

EDGERS: Yeah. I mean, it's -- it's -- you know, there were at least four examples that we found. I'm sure there are more. We just don't know. We don't report on something if we're not sure of it. But there are at least four examples in the Combs case where hush money or NDAs were used. And it's a pretty simple procedure. You know, people will see this in other industries, of course, when you're given a severance package or laid off.

COATES: Uh-hmm.

EDGERS: In order to get that, sometimes, the company will say, hey, we're going to give you an NDA, non-disclosure. You can't talk about anything here, good or bad. But it's -- it's fairly common to hear this used in the music industry.

I mean, we -- I had other examples in that story of people who weren't as famous. You know, a woman named Samantha Cooper, who was working for Warner Music Group and had accused the chief executive officer of trying to ask her back to his hotel room. She had signed an NDA. And so, if she spoke out about this, she would be theoretically fined or have to pay $60,000 per time she spoke out. So, it's a pretty chilling effect.

You know, the R. Kelly thing, there were, you know, multiple NDAs that I got my hands on that told me this story, which was basically, if you can pay -- you know, you just showed that statistic, $300 million. If you can pay a million dollars to somebody who doesn't have anything and, you know, and tell them you can't speak, it's very tempting for them, and it creates this culture of silence that perpetuates itself.

COATES: The culture of silence, though, certainly for those who have alleged they have been victimized, is one thing. But what are you hearing in terms of silence from other entertainers or in these C- suites of these entertainment industries? Why are we not hearing more from that and them?

EDGERS: Well, it took a long -- I mean -- I'm sorry. I keep going back to this one because R. Kelly was such an -- we've now had that trial settled, and we see what happened there.

COATES: Yes.

EDGERS: So, it's -- as a reporter, I'm more comfortable saying, look, here we have the case. It was very, very obvious and very clear. And yet I think it was John Legend who was, like, one of the first celebrities who actually said something. You know? And that was when people actually used Twitter.

You know, the reality is, people are terrified to get on the wrong side of an issue when they're famous. It's upsetting, and you would hope people would have more willingness to speak out.

I will also say this. Everybody has been speculating about these videos. What -- who will be on the films? Who -- you know, they're throwing out celebrities. I believe that these were not famous people on these videos. I believe these were sex workers and people who were not in that position. I could be proved wrong, but that's my belief.

So, I also think that there may have been like a layer of -- lack of knowledge with some of these people directly and not wanting to speak out. But it is shocking. We're just seeing people -- you know, Dawn Richard going on the -- on the stand today. We're seeing people who saw this for years.

Tiffany Red was uncomfortable speaking out about it because this was her friend, Cassie Ventura, and it wasn't until Cassie spoke out that Tiffany was comfortable. But she saw things years ago about his behavior that made her say that Sean Combs is not a good guy.

COATES: There is still so much more that we're going to hear undoubtedly. Geoff Edgers, thank you so much for joining.

EDGERS: Thanks so much for having me. I appreciate it.

COATES: There's much more on all things Diddy on my brand-new CNN podcast, "Trial by Jury." It's available wherever you get your podcasts. We'll be right back.

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COATES: Well, before we go tonight, don't miss the latest documentary from CNN chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta, "Animal Farm." It looks at the practice of using animal organs for human transplants. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): What you're seeing is the future of transplantation. A heart, a liver, a kidney. These are organs that are grown, not in the body, but in the lab.

UNKNOWN: They're using a pig organ scaffold and re-cellularizing that with human cells. Also, another group is 3D printing that scaffold, re-cellularizing that with human cells. So, multiple ways to generate a humanized organ for overcoming the shortage.

GUPTA (voice-over): The potential, organs on demand.

Could you get to the point where you could create a personalized organ for somebody?

UNKNOWN: Absolutely.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Wow! Be sure to tune in. "Dr. Sanjay Gupta Reports: Animal Pharm" airs Sunday night at 8:00, only right here on CNN.

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Hey, thank you all for watching. "Anderson Cooper 360" is next.