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Laura Coates Live
Trump Threatens Chicago With National Guard Troops; Trump Fires Federal Reserve Governor Lisa Cook; Alex Acosta To Break Silence In Epstein Investigation; Trump Escalates Threats Against His Critics, The Press; Kilmar Abrego Garcia Fights Deportation To Uganda; Venus Williams Is Back At U.S. Open. Aired 11p-12a ET
Aired August 25, 2025 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN HOST: Now, Abrego Garcia was mistakenly deported to El Salvador earlier this year and was returned to the U.S. in June. He was released from custody in Tennessee on Friday. He faces charges of criminal human smuggling and his trial is set to be in January.
And thank you very much for watching "NewsNight." "Laura Coates Live" starts right now.
LAURA COATES, CNN HOST: Tonight, Trump trying to make Chicago the new D.C. as Trump threatened the Windy City with a gust of National Guard troops that the governor says he doesn't want. Plus, breaking tonight, it's official, she's out. Trump fires a member of the Federal Reserve Board in a dramatic move that's already shaking markets. And finally, the prosecutor behind the controversial sweetheart deal agrees to testify before Congress. Will he really talk to Congress what he knows? Tonight on "Laura Coates Live."
Well, talk about a manic Monday. Trump's to-do list was something else. He actively threatened sending the National Guard into American cities, putting Chicago on deck. He fired a member of the Federal Reserve Board over mortgage fraud allegations. He signed an executive order to try and criminalize flag burning despite a Supreme Court ruling that allows that. He stressed the DOJ should investigate his friend turned foe, former New Jersey governor, Chris Christie, over that decade-old Bridgegate controversy, and he said he would rename the Department of Defense the War Department.
Now that last one may sound trivial in comparison to all the others, perhaps, but I mentioned it only because the answer he gave to a reporter's question is actually quite instructive. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNKNOWN (voice-over): It requires an act of Congress to rename the Defense Department to Department of War --
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We're just going to do it. I'm sure Congress will go along if we need that. I don't think we even need that.
(END VIDEO CLIP) COATES: We're just going to do that? Doesn't matter if he needs Congress and doesn't matter if the law may not necessarily allow for it. He's just going to do it.
Well, welcome to the Nike presidency. Except in sports, of course, you can't just break the rules, or at least if you do, there's an official with a whistle ready to blow. What if the player doesn't care about the official? Plays offsides, high sticks, aims for the batter when he pitches, trips his opponent, laughs at technical, keeps playing when he fouls out of the game. Well, tells you the rules are just guidelines.
Well, that's exactly what Democrats say the president is doing with his threat to send National Guard troops into America's third largest city.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I have some slob like Pritzker criticizing us before we even go there. I made the statement that next should be Chicago because, as you all know, Chicago is a killing field right now. And they don't acknowledge it, and they say we don't need him, freedom, freedom, he's a dictator, he's a dictator. A lot of people are saying maybe we like a dictator. I don't like a dictator. I'm not a dictator. We go in. We will solve Chicago within one week, maybe less. But within one week, we will have no crime in Chicago.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: No crime in the third largest city in the country with almost three million people. Well, that really would be something. It's also something the Illinois governor, JB Pritzker, and the Chicago mayor would love to happen, frankly. But even though they aren't that yet there, while they're telling people and they say the crime numbers, they have been trending down. In other words, thanks, but no thanks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. JB PRITZKER (D-IL): Instead, I say, Mr. President, do not come to Chicago. You are neither wanted here nor needed here. Your remarks about this effort over the last several weeks have betrayed a continuing slip in your mental faculties and are not fit for the auspicious office that you occupy. This is not about fighting crime. This is about Donald Trump searching for any justification to deploy the military in a blue city, in a blue state to try and intimidate his political rivals.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: The District of Columbia, the state of Illinois has some level of independence. Right? In the district, Trump is exerting some of his federal authority under the Home Rule Act. Chicago is an American city and an American state where in most situation, the governors control the deployment of the guard. States A.G. on CNN pointed that very fact out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KWAME RAOUL, ILLINOIS ATTORNEY GENERAL: There's federal law that dictates when the president should federalize the National Guard. We don't have a foreign invasion. We don't have an insurrection. He's not alleging to do so to advance a federal law.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[23:04:58]
COATES: Well, my first guest is known as Chicago's Mr. Ceasefire for his decades-long experience in community violence prevention. Tio Hardiman is the founder, executive director of Violence Interrupters, and a former Democratic candidate for governor.
Tio, welcome. I mean, you've heard all that has been said. The president says the federal government can solve Chicago's crime problem -- listen to this figure -- within one week, maybe less. Is he trivializing this issue?
TIO HARDIMAN, FOUNDER AND EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF VIOLENCE INTERRUPTERS, FORMER DEMOCRATIC GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: Yeah, I think President Trump is trivializing -- is trivializing the issue based on the fact that Chicago -- we experience systemic decades-long gun violence in Chicago. First and foremost, we have laws, we must abide policies here in Illinois.
I believe --I would like to recommend that President Trump reach out to Governor JB Pritzker and Mayor Brandon Johnson, have a conversation with them, and talk about trying to organize in regard to what it might take to bring the homicide -- homicides down a little bit more.
Right now, Chicago is on pace to break a record in homicide reductions in the year of 2025. We're down 17% already this year, according to the same time last year, so there's a chance we might reach under 400 homicides. One is too many. Don't get me wrong.
COATES: Of course.
HARDIMAN: We may experience under 400 homicides in Chicago this year. So, a lot of good efforts are being, you know, implemented in Chicago by the governor and the mayor here in Chicago. I just want to say that. And Donald Trump is used to doing whatever he chooses to do. So, I would like to tell him to put on -- put the brakes on for a minute, reach out to Governor Pritzker. Let's try to bring it together. So, we should not play politics with people's lives out here.
COATES: Well, you know, as you say, the number and the trajectory is downward. Obviously, zero would be the most wonderful number for any major city, any city, frankly, about crime rates. But there has not been that communication yet between the president of the United States, the governor, the mayor. If that should happen, what do you think would be the most effective way to do so given, of course, that law enforcement has also not been part and privy to the conversation?
HARDIMAN: It's all about organizing. That's what we do here in Illinois now. We're working with the Illinois Department of Human Services. We're working with the attorney general's office. We're working with Chicago Police Department, all the violence prevention organizations on the ground. I'm talking about state -- I mean, state agencies now, and they are providing service for people that experience trauma. Don't get me wrong. A lot of work still needs to be done.
COATES: Uh-hmm.
HARDIMAN: We have a lot of problems on the CTA, the Chicago Transit Authority. Recently, a nine-year-old autistic young man, his caretaker was beat up -- beaten up on a train, and the boy fell down the stairs. He was declared brain dead a week ago. So, we have a lot of issues on the public transportation. Don't get me wrong.
So, I just believe that if Trump would sit down with the governor, the governor would be -- wouldn't mind sitting down with Trump. I know that might be kind of hard, but it's all -- Trump is going around working with the Ukrainians and the Russian, you know, with that war there.
So, why not sit down and respect the leader of the state of Illinois? Let's try to reach a happy medium and help save more lives. So, there may be a need to place some other extra levels of support in Illinois, but it's all about a conversation first.
Right now, in Chicago, $31 million has been spent on security on the CTA train systems, but crime is up on the CTA train. Let me just say that.
COATES: Hmm.
HARDIMAN: But I do believe Trump might have good intentions, but he should really study Chicago. And I would like to invite him to come walk the streets with me in Chicago or come to a town hall meeting that I will organize for him. But the thing is what's most important is that all the leaders come together because you have kid -- don't get me wrong, Laura.
COATES: Yes.
HARDIMAN: You have parks in Chicago where young people are scared to go to the parks.
COATES: Hmm.
HARDIMAN: I must say that. You have a lot of these schools that do not have a great number of students in the schools anymore due to the high levels of gun violence. Sincerely. A lot of African-American people have moved out of Chicago. There's an exodus of Black folks, African- American people moving out of Chicago because of the violence and for other reasons as well.
COATES: Uh-hmm.
HARDIMAN: So, we have a lot of data to back up what I'm saying. Okay? COATES: Yeah. I hear you. And it sounds like the conversation should be had with those who know it best, not from the far distance of Washington, D.C. dictating something because, obviously, you know a great deal about your community.
Tio, thank you so much for joining. I hadn't heard about that young boy. So sad to hear about that nine-year-old.
HARDIMAN: Yeah.
COATES: Thank you for joining.
HARDIMAN: Thank you.
COATES: I want to talk more -- more about this, of course, with former senior adviser to Trump campaign in 2024, Bryan Lanza is here, also CNN political commentator Karen Finney.
Okay, let's just begin there because, obviously, any effective policy begins with the ground, knowing who knows the area best, what needs to happen. Recently, Governor Wes Moore, for example, invited the president to do a walk around with him and talk through the issues around at least Maryland and how to keep a downward trajectory of crime that was met with how we know essentially a snub. But talk to me about why that's not happening yet. It -- it would be a very effective thing to talk to the governor and law enforcement. I mean, it would be easy political win as well.
BRYAN LANZA, FORMER DEPUTY COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR FOR TRUMP 2016 CAMPAIGN, FORMER SENIOR ADVISER FOR TRUMP-VANCE 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN: I actually think it has happened. We saw it on public television.
[23:09:58]
President Trump said he want to sit down with these mayors and these governors and talk about sanctuary cities. And what did the mayors and governors of these blue states say? Kick rocks.
COATES: Well, that was -- that was one area. How about the issue of crime more broadly?
LANZA: That -- what -- what's the whole point of sanctuary cities? The whole point of a sanctuary city is an illegal alien committing the crime and there -- and the local jurisdiction not following through and prosecuting that crime because they're an illegal -- illegal alien.
COATES: Well, they would say it's an issue of federalism, state rights over the federal government.
LANZA: Like I said, they have -- they have the point to engage. The Trump administration went to all these municipalities and said, hey, we have a problem, we have an immigration problem, we have an illegal alien immigration problem, we shouldn't be segregating these two groups, they should all be treated the same, but you're giving illegal aliens a special right, a special class of citizenship that they haven't earned or need to over American citizens, we should find a solution, and Democratic blue state governors and blue state mayors told the president to kick rocks.
COATES: So, the governor --
LANZA: So, why do we engage? And they said no.
KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Bryan --
COATES: Go ahead.
FINNEY: I'm so sorry. You're saying the quiet part out loud, which is part of this whole activation and strategy is really about going after in these towns for immigration, going after these ICE raids.
LANZA: Illegal. Illegal aliens.
FINNEY: ICE raids. Well -- and by the way, I mean, I watched a guy who was trying to deliver a burrito get whipped off his scooter by ICE because he supposedly was a criminal. I don't think most gang members are delivering burritos, and yet that leaves the actual violent criminal still on the streets. But I digress.
The point is, and I think the cities are -- are realizing, that really part of what this is about is a cover for, again, trying to go in and conduct these ICE raids. But --
COATES: Well, also, at your point, the governor of Illinois did say something about this being politically-motivated, not just sanctuary -- not about the sanctuary cities aspect of it, but red versus blue. Listen to what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRITZKER: Take note. Thirteen of the top 20 cities in homicide rate have Republican governors. None of these cities is Chicago. Memphis, Tennessee, Hattiesburg, Mississippi have higher crime rates than Chicago. And yet Donald Trump is sending troops here and not there? Ask yourself why.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: So, would you look at this if they were to deploy the National Guard to, say, red cities, which I'll ask you why they're not in this immediate instance? Would -- would it look different in terms of the response, do you think? Would it be more of a coordination? Your thought?
FINNEY: I think we're getting off of what should be the point, which is, what is crime reduction? How do we reduce crime? Right now, Donald Trump is defunding the police. He is defunding public safety because he has cut $800 million from grant.
Some of the programs that Tio was talking about, violence interruption, getting guns off the streets, actually, I looked this up just for you, Bryan. Clearing out backlogs, hiring more -- getting more judges and more lawyers.
COATES: Oh, wait. Has the president caught up, as noticed by his face, if he's really hard on crime, by doing that -- that very thing?
LANZA: Listen. I would make the case he hasn't made those cuts. What you have --
FINNEY: They're done. I mean, it was -- they were dozed.
LANZA: What you have is jurisdictions who haven't used the money appropriately, creating sanctuary cities. And if you're not going to help abide by federal law --
FINNEY: But that's --
LANZA: -- you're not worthy of federal grants.
FINNEY: But that's -- Bryan --
LANZA: That's -- that's how simple it works.
FINNEY: On the one -- so, basically --
LANZA: And by the way --
FINNEY: -- what you're saying is there are communities -- hold on. Those communities --
COATES: I can't hear both of you. Stop. Hold on. Karen -- wait. Karen had a point. Go ahead. FINNEY: So, I'm just saying, so you're saying, in those communities, you may have a disagreement about sanctuary city. So those children in a community where there's crime interventions that are working, that help get guns off the streets, we're not going to give that money to them because we're mad at them for this thing.
LANZA: No, no. What -- what -- I'm saying is --
(CROSSTALK)
FINNEY: -- what is happening.
LANZA: What I'm saying is you have to do both. Bill Clinton showed that you have to lock up criminals and you have to do these community programs. Where we are today with blues -- with blue city mayors is they don't want to lock up criminals. That's a very --
FINNEY: That's not true.
LANZA: They don't want to lock up criminals. That's very clear.
FINNEY: That seems --
COATES: Well, hold on. We -- we know that is -- anyone who speaks in hyperbole gets less credibility. You know --
LANZA: Please.
COATES: -- to happen?
LANZA: No.
COATES: Of course --
LANZA: Let's -- let's talk about it.
COATES: You -- you want to argue that no mayor wants a criminal arrested?
LANZA: No, I'm not saying that.
COATES: I'll move on. Next one I want to make is -- we're talking about green, and that is the talking about what's happening in the Fed. So, you know, the Federal Reserve governor, Lisa Cook, she has been fired, as we've heard. She was the first Black woman to serve on the board, on the -- on the Fed. She was appointed by the former president, President Joe Biden. I wonder, from your perspective, Bryan, on this point, speaking not red and blue but green for a second on this issue. (LAUGHTER)
Is this an effort to get more seats open? Obviously, because the president has a very big interest in the Federal Reserve.
LANZA: Yeah. I think this is multiple layers. Right? Is -- I remember when President Trump, you know, got arrested or got indicted for his things to say he's completely disqualified from being -- for president, even before he was convicted of anything. They said if there's suspicion, you shouldn't run for president.
[23:14:57]
So, now, we're -- now, President Trump is applying that same ethos that the Democrats tried to use against him with respect to this Fed chairman. She's saying -- he's saying there's a cloud of suspicion regarding her mortgage rates. She shouldn't have claimed. There's -- there are some problems. There has been a criminal referral or there's about to be a criminal referral. And we should have our board of -- our Feds completely impeachable. You know, unimpeachable.
COATES: What do you think?
LANZA: We don't have that situation. That's a problem.
FINNEY: I thought an America, we do innocent until proven guilty. But if we're not --
LANZA: I guess we forgot that during Trump.
FINNEY: Well, I guess we're -- well, he -- he actually was proven guilty and convicted --
LANZA: Well, when he was innocent -- FINNEY: -- 37 counts.
LANZA: -- when he was innocent, everybody said he shouldn't run.
FINNEY: Well, okay. People were entitled to their opinion. My point is if we're not going to abide by the Constitution, let's just be honest about that. I mean, this Lisa Cook, he actually hasn't fired her. He doesn't have the authority to fire her. And so -- and the case hasn't been proven.
So, at this point, it's going to come down to a court. But this is part of the way Trump keeps asserting authority to push the norms, to -- to then have the lawsuit, to then have -- so we're having these conversations. Meanwhile, we have child molesters running around. They were in the Epstein files.
COATES: Hmm.
FINNEY: He could release those files and do a big -- going to take big bite out of crime, actually.
COATES: Well, for the record, there was a trial regarding the inflation of assets involving different loans from banks. Just last week, the judges said that there was actually an excessive fine, but they kept the underlying fraud conviction.
A CNN review of mortgage documents as relates to this particular person shows that Cook did take out mortgages for two properties, both of which were listed as her principal residence. However, it's not known why she did so or if she did so intentionally. The president says the allegations are a sufficient cause to fire Cook. The DOJ has not done its investigation fully yet.
Bryan, Karen, thank you both very much. Woke us up on a Monday. Still ahead, forget where's Waldo. Where is Alex Acosta? One of your top questions on this show, second only to why hasn't anyone talked to him about that sweetheart deal that he approved. Well, tonight, that all seems to change as the House Oversight Committee makes a significant announcement, plus the new subpoena they've issued that Rupert Murdoch and "The Wall Street Journal" might want to pay attention to. I'll explain why next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COATES: As you know, for weeks, there has been one name that keeps popping up on Capitol Hill. Acosta. Alex Acosta.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. RAJA KRISHNAMOORTHI (D-IL): Alex Acosta, perhaps more than anyone else, would also know what's in the files. REP. JASMINE CROCKETT (D-TX): I mean, it is also clear that the attorney that was responsible, Acosta, for handing out the deal prior to Attorney Barr's reign as attorney general, we probably need to talk to him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: Not just from Democrats either. Nope. Even Republican Congresswoman Anna Paulina Luna has said that they want to hear from him as well. She's saying -- quote -- "At any time, he can be called to testify." And it sounds like that time will be next month.
Congressman James Comer, the chair of the House Oversight Committee, confirming today that Acosta will sit for an interview on September 19. Now, why Acosta? Remember, he is the former U.S. attorney behind Epstein's so-called sweetheart plea deal back in 2007. That's the one who dropped Epstein's federal charges for the deal which, by the way, also led to Acosta's resignation as labor secretary during Trump's first term.
That's not all Comer confirmed today. He also announced that he is subpoenaing the Epstein estate and asking for a laundry list. And I do mean a laundry list of things, including that 50th birthday book that Ghislaine Maxwell allegedly compiled for Epstein. You've heard of that book recently. It, allegedly, contains a handwritten note and sketch, a doodle from Trump.
Joining me now, journalist Daniel Bates, who has covered the Epstein case for a year and more, thankfully. Daniel, thank you for joining here. I want to know from you, what information might Alex Acosta actually provide that we haven't already seen, haven't already heard about?
DANIEL BATES, JOURNALIST: Well, the information I would love to hear from Alex Acosta is who was in the room when these decisions were made about Epstein's sweetheart plea deal, how far up the food chain did it go with the Justice Department, who signed off on it, and what really went on in that weird meeting in a hotel room he had with one of Epstein's lawyers, where they had a sort of breakfast meeting, where they seem to have discussed, you know, the sort of terms of a possible deal.
So, what -- what I want from Alex Acosta really would be the -- the ins and outs of it. And -- and let's not forget, he had a chance to explain himself in 2019 when he was labor secretary and Epstein was arrested, and he essentially, you know, waffled and said he was doing best by the victims.
But, you know, he really needs to explain who decided this, how far up the food chain it went, and -- and -- and who really made that decision, which -- which is, you know, possibly the most scandalous thing about the whole Epstein saga.
COATES: And in exchange for what? That's what we've heard from many victims now, who did not feel included at all in that process. And that sweetheart deal, that is looming very large, this entirety of the conversation about the Epstein files.
You know, Colbert (ph), interestingly enough, he initially left Acosta's name off of the list of people that he wanted to testify. I -- I don't know why he did initially. But what changed his mind?
BATES: Well, I think it's -- it's -- it's pressure from victims.
[23:24:57]
And also, I -- it seems to me, based on the subpoena alone, that the more they kind of understand about this story, the kind of -- the -- the closer they are to going in the right direction. I mean, you look at the subpoena itself and it's a mixture of sort of stuff that's out there in the public domain already and stuff that's genuinely interesting.
So, it seems like they're still, you know, kind of feeling their way into this case and trying to understand the direction to go. I mean, you look at the House manuals they're seeking. You know, that -- we saw one of those during the Ghislaine Maxwell trial.
And it's interesting but I don't think it's the right direction to go. I mean, Epstein's will is already public, the unredacted black book is public. But then, again, the CCTV footage from Epstein's houses that they're seeking would be fantastic.
So, it seems like they're kind of, you know, trying to figure out the best direction to go as they go along, and -- and that's encouraging, but at the same time, you know, I -- I really wish they would listen to victims and people who have worked on the case for longer to get a better sense faster of where to go.
COATES: Interestingly enough, the -- the House committee, House Oversight Committee, they want the Epstein estate to turn over some things you actually named, the CCT footage -- CCTV footage, excuse me, that so-called birthday book Ghislaine Maxwell allegedly compiled for his 50th birthday, a potential client list which she says does not actually exist at all.
But then you've got people like Congresswoman Summer Lee, who has said, even what you handed over so far -- I mean, 97% of that, we have seen before. Do you know what's in the 3% that has been handed over anew? And why is it that we're still hearing sort of information we've already heard before? Is it just sort of to placate?
BATES: I mean, I -- I have mixed feelings about this. I mean, I -- I think there's -- there's -- there's a glut of material that's out there, you know, already from the various civil cases. And I think unless you really know this case inside out, then you don't really know what's -- what's new and what's not. So, I think there's -- there's partly an issue, just the sheer volume of material.
But also, I mean, the reality is if you really start digging into this, you know, you -- you do start getting the embarrassing stuff about people. So, I think -- you know, I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but -- but one does have to wonder whether or not -- you know, if you really start getting into it, you're going to start sort of coming up against things, which -- which really make you sort of think.
And -- I mean, I -- you know, going back to the -- the subpoena, I mean, I -- there are things that they could ask for that would be genuinely illuminating, like, they could say to Attorney General Bondi, look, get us everything from the U.S. Virgin Islands investigation into Jeffrey Epstein and give it to us, and she could get that pretty easily. I mean, there will be fascinating stuff in there.
You know, they could call the Department of Homeland Security and say, okay, give us the reports of entry and exit records for all of Epstein's planes going back as far as you've got. That would reveal, you know, numerous names of people who haven't come out yet.
So, again, it's -- it's -- it's very frustrating that we're in this position where, you know, the stuff that's being requested is sort of out there already, not the right direction. They really could be getting interesting stuff, but they're not.
COATES: And none of what you named would have to go through a judge. They would be able to have much of that aside from the estate as well. Daniel, thank you so much.
Still ahead, he has instigated lawsuits and investigations. He has pulled funding. He has pulled jobs. Today, President Trump is threatening more. But how far could this go? We'll ask someone who knows a little something about presidential enemies lists. Nixon's former White House counsel, John Dean, weighs in next.
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[23:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNKNOWN (voice-over): Are more raids like the one on John Bolton's house coming?
TRUMP: More raids? I don't know. You have to ask the Department of Justice. They raided my house.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: It has only been three days since the FBI searched the home of former national security adviser John Bolton, one of the president's toughest and most vocal critics.
And while Trump today, once again, is denying that he played any role in that investigation, he did signal that another political friend turned enemy might want to have a chitchat with Bolton, former New Jersey governor, Chris Christie.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNKNOWN (voice-over): Do you plan to investigate Chris Christie?
TRUMP: Uh, look, Chris is a slob. Everybody knows it. I know Chris better than anybody in the room. I always felt he was guilty. But what he did is he took the George Washington Bridge, which is very serious. He closed down the George Washington Bridge. If they want to look at it, they can. You could ask Pam. I think we have other things to do. But I always thought he got away with murder.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: Those comments referencing the infamous 2013 scandal known as Bridgegate, something Christie has long denied having any connection to. And it wasn't even five years ago when Trump himself called Bridgegate a -- quote -- "Obama DOJ scam."
Well, just yesterday, Christie appeared on ABC News and sharply criticized Trump for the investigation into Bolton. And surprise, surprise, that prompted a barrage of attacks from Trump, including renewed calls for networks ABC and NBC to have their broadcast licenses revoked.
Now, spoiler alert, the FCC only licenses individual broadcast systems, not networks such as ABC and NBC. And even though broadcast station can violate FCC rules, there's still the First Amendment, which runs the agency from dictating exactly what programming networks to air.
But joining me now is someone who knows Nixon well, CNN contributor and former Nixon White House counsel, John Dean.
[23:35:00]
I'm glad to have you here. John, I have to ask you because you must be alarmed with the kind of a deja vu when you hear the president suggest investigating his critics. And these aren't hypotheticals, by the way. You've got probes underway involving Letitia James, James Comey, Jack Smith, you've got Adam Schiff, just to name a few. What goes through your mind when you hear about these probes and these investigations?
JOHN DEAN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR, FORMER NIXON WHITE HOUSE COUNSEL: Well, I'm not surprised to hear a president gets angry and has people he doesn't like. Nixon certainly had that instinct and effort to strike out occasionally. For example, I don't think Nixon knew there was a so-called enemies list. I think he didn't know that until I testified about it before the Senate.
But, you know, as a rule, presidents don't use that office post- Watergate in particular to attack people. It's a powerful office. There are lots of tools he can use. We're seeing some of them being executed right now, and these are very, very difficult for the targets of these kinds of investigations.
So, I have a lot of empathy for Bolton because he's kind of defenseless. They also -- just unprecedented for the attorney general and the head of the FBI to put out tweets, in essence, implicating guilt, if you will. So, it's an extraordinary time, Laura. We've never been through anything like this.
COATES: You mean the tweet suggesting no one is above the law, which almost intimates that there was some law that was broken, hence the raid --
DEAN: Right.
COATES: -- which, of course, was -- was allowed for a warrant execution by a federal magistrate. We're still waiting to have more information about the probable cause that surrounded that. But I want you to listen to some of the president's comments when he was asked about the raid on Bolton's home, particularly this -- this new title that he's adopting.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I'm a chief law enforcement officer, believe it or not. You know, I don't like to go around saying that, but I am. That's the position. I don't want -- I tell Pam and I tell the group. I don't want to know about it. Just you have to do what you have to do. I don't want to know about it. It's not necessary. I could know about it. I could be the one starting it. I'm actually the chief law enforcement officer. But I feel that it's better this way.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: The executive branch whose job it is to enforce the laws. But on the one hand, he's calling himself the chief law enforcement officer. On the other, he is deferring all questions. The attorney general saying that he doesn't want to know. I mean, can he have it both ways given the risk of a president being in charge of law enforcement?
DEAN: He has had a lifetime of having it both ways, as you know, Laura. And so, I'm not surprised he's taking both sides of that. He's also announcing they go on patrol with the D.C. police or some other city. So, this is -- it's just very unusual behavior for a president. The dignity of the office has just been, I think, forever destroyed. It's going to take decades to rebuild that office after he's gone, assuming we leave -- someday he leaves.
COATES: A republic, if you can keep it, as they say. What about his statements that suggest, and I'm hearing this from Republicans as well, comparing the raid on John Bolton's home with the execution of the search warrant? Again, the language is going both ways on this issue, into Mar-a-Lago, and the investigations into Trump and his allies, particularly around 2020. Do you see an app comparison?
DEAN: No comparison whatsoever. As the facts show, Trump was requested to return documents. He was -- they were aware he had documents. He just refused to really respond initially. And then the negotiations, he said he'd turned over some documents. He said he'd turned them all over. And indeed, they knew that wasn't true.
So, it was -- it was really the last move they could do because they knew the president -- former president at that point was lying, and they went and got the highly sensitive national security information.
COATES: Well, we'll see if that comparison ends. Somehow, I think it will not. But Trump did just sign an executive order today and is pushing for strict penalties for desecrating the American flag.
John, just hours after that, park police say that a combat veteran was arrested after setting fire to a flag in front of the White House. Now, to be clear, the man was arrested because it's illegal to light anything on fire on national park grounds. But what do you make of Trump's attempt to criminalize or harshen penalties with respect to what the Supreme Court has said First Amendment allows?
DEAN: Presidents cannot create criminal laws. They can decide which ones they might want to pursue and have their Department of Justice pursue. But this isn't a crime. It's the First Amendment right, to make such a statement. It's an ugly right.
[23:40:00]
But nevertheless, it's what makes our country strong, that people can protest. So, this is going nowhere. It's a pure and more political theater by our president.
COATES: You think the courts will back that up if it's ever brought to their attention?
DEAN: I think they will. I hope they do. The courts, certainly at the district court level, have held. The Court of Appeals has shown some partisanship. What's terrifying is what has happened at the highest court. And we don't know. It's -- it's a -- it's just an open field up there now. We don't know.
COATES: Well, it's their own precedent, so we'll see what they decide. John Dean, thank you so much.
DEAN: Thank you, Laura.
COATES: Up next, he was illegally deported in March, according to a judge, to -- to El Salvador. Now, here we are in August, and he is facing a new deportation this time, fighting against it to all -- of all places, Uganda.
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[23:45:00]
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COATES: Tonight, a federal judge making this message to Trump administration loud and clear. They're -- quote -- "absolutely forbidden to remove Kilmar Abrego Garcia from the United States." This as the judge continues to weigh a new legal challenge over plans to deport him to Uganda.
You recall, Abrego Garcia, a father of three from Maryland, was mistakenly deported to a notorious mega prison in El Salvador months ago. He was briefly reunited with his family on Friday after 160 days before once again being taken into ICE custody today. The administration is accusing him of criminal human smuggling.
But tonight, Abrego Garcia calling the renewed effort to deport him a punishment. Earlier, he had this to say to his supporters at rally -- at a rally with the help of a translator.
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UNKNOWN: To all the families who have been separated or to all the families who have been threatened with family separation, this administration has hit us hard. But I want tell you, guys, something. God is with us, and God will never leave us. God will bring justice to all of the injustice that we are suffering.
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COATES: Joining me now, former acting ICE director under President Obama, John Sandweg. John, welcome. I mean, how did deporting Abrego Garcia to Uganda become a possibility?
JOHN SANDWEG, FORMER ACTING DIRECTOR, IMMIGRATION AND CUSTOMS ENFORCEMENT: Laura, this all goes back to the beginning of this administration in this mass deportation effort. Historically, under immigration law, someone like Abrego Garcia, who was granted protection from El Salvador, could technically be deported to a third country. But we've never seen this before because third countries, you know, don't want to take back U.S. deportees who are not their citizens.
This administration has really prioritized that, and what that means is they've gone to vulnerable countries, countries that could be either incentivized through financial rewards from the United States or potential some sort of financial sanctions and pressure them to take these people back. This is where you're hearing about these removals to South Sudan, a little bit to Mexico, Uganda. That's how we came about this.
Now, that said, Laura, I will tell you, there's also potentially an element here of some sort of punitive nature. Right? There comes out some stories that appears that Costa Rica has also indicated they're willing to take him back. But, of course, the administration selecting Uganda. I -- I don't think that's an accident.
COATES: Does he have any real say legally about where he would be deported to, particularly if Costa Rica, for example, says that he has the right to come?
SANDWEG: Yeah, he doesn't have a say to pick, and he's asked for his opinion.
COATES: Uh-hmm.
SANDWEG: But what he does have the right to do is argue that he faces persecution wherever they're going to send him. So that raises two issues here with Uganda. The first one, his lawyers have been very vocal about, is Uganda just a pitstop back to El Salvador? Right? Uganda is going to get this guy from El Salvador, deported from the United States. They -- they don't really want him there. They would like to move him out as quickly as possible. The only place that would ever take him is El Salvador which is, of course, where he's getting protection from. So, the administration is going to say, Uganda has assured us, they will not send him to El Salvador. But that's the crux of the question he's presenting to court.
Of course, the secondary question is, and we've seen this in some of these cases, when the U.S. deports these people to these third countries, they end up just being detained there. They lock them up in prison, you know, interminably. That itself could give him a cause to say to a U.S. court, hey, I'm going to be persecuted.
But that's the crux of what's going on right now, is he's telling -- he said to the federal judge and the judges agreed, I need time to present these claims to an immigration judge, please order ICE not to deport me until I can present those claims. That's where we are right now.
COATES: He said as much in terms of prosecution, writing to the judge, "I fear persecution in Uganda on account of my race, nationality, political opinion, and membership in a particular social group. I also fear torture." Talk to me about that timeline for that consideration for a judge. They temporarily paused this. That's not an indefinite pause. Those factors will likely be considered, but on what timeline?
SANDWEG: Yeah, that's a million-dollar question, Laura. This is happening across the country. I mean, one thing I think we ought to keep our mind about this case is this case is very high profile. It's very unusual facts. But there are thousands of these cases going through the system right now that are not getting this level of attention.
But the bottom line is it could normally, in a normal process, take months to make determination as to whether he has a valid claim, no fear of persecution in Uganda.
[23:50:03]
The administration is not going to want to wait months. The only thing keeping him in this country right now is this federal court order -- ordering, you know, ICE to keep him here. As we've seen, though, that could be appealed up quickly.
Generally, courts have been good at the district court level in saying, hey, you need to keep these people here long enough to press these claims through and present a meaningful opportunity to present their claim. But this is the question, how much time will he get and how long until the administration is able to actually -- to fly into, you know, Uganda or somewhere else in this -- in the world?
COATES: John, thank you for explaining so much. I appreciate it.
SANDWEG: My pleasure.
COATES: Up next, a standing ovation for the icon who is Venus Williams after tennis break delivers an inspiring performance for every athlete of every generation.
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UNKNOWN (voice-over): And another double fault gives Muchova the opening set.
UNKNOWN (voice-over): Vices (ph) gives a three.
UNKNOWN (voice-over): After 48 minutes, Venus Williams --
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COATES: Age ain't nothing but a number, says a fellow 45-year-old. And Venus Williams certainly proved it at the U.S. Open tonight. The 45- year-old tennis icon played at her first Grand Slam tournament in two years. She fought for two hours before, unfortunately, losing in three sets to the 11th seed, Karolina Muchova.
She and for the longevity of Venus is truly, truly out of this world. She turned pro in 1994. That's two years before her opponent tonight was even born. And Muchova was only four when Venus won her first U.S. Open title in 2000. How -- was that really 25 years ago?
Here to talk about it is CNN sports analyst in USA Today, sports columnist, and New York Times best spelling author, Christine Brennan. A nail-biting match. Let's just talk about the majesty of Venus. This is somebody who is 45 years old, who is playing still, investing many people, including somebody going toe-to-toe with 16 years her junior.
CHRISTINE BRENNAN, CNN SPORTS ANALYST: You know, I've --
COATES: Wow!
BREWER: I've covered her, the length of her career. I was there literally, Laura, a quarter century ago when she won the U.S. Open. I was covering it. These were the days with Serena rising as well. And, I mean, just the -- the glorious story of these two sisters from Compton, California, and their dad and their mom, and everything about the -- the dream that that came true in the most magical way, that she's 45, that she has been missing basically for 16 months, injury, illness.
As she said today, by coming out there, she had the chance to play healthy and feel that again, and feel that freedom of playing, you know, without injury, without pain, which I think is just a lovely -- you know, one of the many lovely legacies of this terrific role model and athlete.
COATES: Listen to what she said about that very issue.
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VENUS WILLIAMS, TENNIS PLAYER: When you play unhealthy, it's in your mind. It's not just how you feel. You -- you get stuck in your mind, too. So, it was nice to be free here.
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COATES: I love this woman. I love how confident she has always been and how authentically open she has been between the fibroids and the autoimmune disorder. I mean, this is a world-class athlete who is expressing what it's like to feel free, to play what she -- how she loves.
BRENNAN: Absolutely. She's real. She's honest. I've interviewed her over the years. Obviously, covered a lot of her matches. That's -- that's Venus. She doesn't change. She is that person. She also, back in 2006, wrote an op-ed in the Times of London, saying, pay women equally, at Wimbledon --
COATES: Uh-hmm.
BRENNAN: -- because Wimbledon was so far behind the U.S. Open. Billie Jean King got equal prize money for women in 1973. Here it is, 2006. Billie Jean passes the baton to Venus Williams, who writes that op-ed, who gets equal pay for all the women in the neck -- the next year at Wimbledon.
And so, she has been an advocate. She is obviously a role model. Everything about her, the way she carried herself, the longevity. Again, 45 years old. A quarter century ago, she's winning. And she's back out there giving it her all. That -- that New York crowd loved her.
COATES: Of course.
BRENNAN: She deserved every second of that. It was a delight to watch. And she won a set.
COATES: Yeah.
BRENNAN: And she was in the match. This was not charity.
COATES: Right.
BRENNAN: She deserved to be on that court. And I think people who were there will remember it for a long time, just with the -- the -- the grace, the class, the dignity of this true American treasure.
COATES: People are also going to remember a meltdown that happened yesterday with another player. It's a Russian tennis star, Daniil Medvedev. What happened? BRENNAN: A photographer came on to the court by mistake. Now, there should be no photographer anywhere near the court as a point -- as a serve was being -- Benjamin Bonzi, the opponent from France, as he was serving for the match. So, the referee said, we're going to replay it, and Medvedev literally went on a six to seven-minute tirade.
[00:00:01]
Somehow, that chair official of the empire allowed him to do that, to rev up the crowd. The official completely blew it, didn't take control of the match. Now, you've got a guy having a temper tantrum. He then wins.
COATES: In the morning.
BRENNAN: Right. Exactly. He wins the next set, now goes to the fifth set, and he finally loses. And then I think people have seen it, where he's just cracking the racket. He's breaking one racket after -- he's throwing them in the -- just having a total meltdown. If he doesn't get fined, if he doesn't get some kind of reprimand, it will be stunning because what a terrible message to send to kids. That's exactly what the U.S. Open does not want to do.
COATES: We'll see. Christine, thank you. Glad to have you here.
BRENNAN: Great to see you.
COATES: And, hey, thank you all for watching. "Anderson Cooper 360" is next.
