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Laura Coates Live
Trump Announces Israel-Hamas Ceasefire Deal; James Comey Fights Back in Court as Trump Mistake Revealed; Trump Calls for Chicago Mayor, Illinois Governor to be Arrested. Aired 11p-12a ET
Aired October 08, 2025 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[23:00:00]
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ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR AND SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Dolly Parton says that she is doing just fine after her sister asked fans for prayers, sparking concern about her health. We are happy to hear that. And thank you very much for watching "NewsNight." "Laura Coates Live" starts right now.
LAURA COATES, CNN HOST AND SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, Trump says the start of a peace deal has been reached. Will it mean hope for the Israeli hostages and the people of Gaza? Plus, an American FBI director arraigned in federal court. But did Trump become exhibit A for Comey's defense team? I'm going to preview the evidence for you. And later, we are hours away from a court deciding whether Trump can deploy troops in Illinois, but he is not wasting another minute before calling for the mayor of Chicago and the governor of that state to be thrown in jail. Tonight on "Laura Coates Live."
We begin with the breaking news and what could be the beginning of the end of the war in Gaza. There is relief yet cautious optimism in the region as the world grapples with what this means for the people of Israel, the hostages, and the people of Gaza.
These are things we know and things that we do not know. And there's information that's still being flushed out as we speak. But here is what we do know. The president says that Hamas and Israel have signed off on phase one of a peace plan. As he put it -- quote -- "This means that all of the hostages will be released very soon, and Israel will withdraw their troops to an agreed upon line as the first steps toward a strong, durable, and everlasting peace."
There are about 20 hostages, Israeli hostages believed to be alive. Trump tonight says that he thinks they could be freed by Monday. The plan also calls for Hamas to return the bodies of the deceased hostages still in their custody. In return, Israel would return or release more than 200 Palestinian prisoners.
Now, Trump, he seems very optimistic about this working out because he suggested today that he may actually travel to the region this weekend. He's already had a conversation with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu tonight. And here's how he described their conversation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA (voice-over): I spoke to Bibi Netanyahu just a little while ago. He called. He said, I can't believe it. He said, everybody is liking me now, meaning him.
UNKNOWN (voice-over): Uh-hmm.
TRUMP (voice-over): He said -- I said -- more importantly, they're loving Israel again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: Now, let's be clear about we -- things we do not know. This is phase one. So, what's going to happen next? When does the phase two start? What's that timeline like? What happens to Hamas? Who controls Gaza? How does it get rebuilt?
These are critical, and I mean critical questions that need answers, substantive ones, to understand whether peace can be sustainable, let alone everlasting, as the president of the United States put it. The only thing that we got out of the president tonight on any of this was -- was a vague answer that he gave to Fox News when asked how he will disarm Hamas.
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TRUMP (voice-over): I think you're going to see all of that disappear. I think you're going to see people getting along. You'll see Gaza being rebuilt. We're forming a council that -- the Council of Peace, we think it's going to be called, and it's going to be very powerful.
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COATES: How? In what way? And what will they do to ensure that it is actually going to be used and powerful? With me are experts who know this region but also know the world of high-stakes international negotiations because none of this can be looked at in a vacuum. We got to know the history, the context, the policy hurdles, the considerations, all that has to be unpacked and considered for us to understand fully what is being said today.
So, you know, we're going to ask two experts to help us understand exactly what is happening and what might still be ahead. We've got Aaron David Miller, a former Middle East negotiator at the State Department where he worked, by the way, for over two decades.
[23:05:01] Also here, Max Boot, senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations and a longtime journalist currently writing for "The Washington Post." Both of your expertise, we need to unpack it. Aaron, I want to begin with you because everyone wants to know, optimism aside or together, why is this successful now? Why might this work this time?
AARON DAVID MILLER, FORMER STATE DEPARTMENT MIDDLE EAST NEGOTIATOR: You know, Woody Allen once described 90% or 80% of life -- success in life is just showing up.
COATES: Hmm.
MILLER: But he's partially right, it's showing up at the right time. That's the key to success. That's the key to negotiations. That's the key to successful diplomacy.
The sun, the moon, the stars came together, Laura. The sun, Hamas is much more vulnerable now than ever has been over the course of the last two years. The people running the show, the internal brigade commanders, are not attached, uh, clearly to hostages the way Yahya Sinwar, who was a Palestinian serving time in an Israeli prison and vowed to free all of the prisoners the Israelis held, and he clung to the hostages. The Arabs, Qataris, and Turkey, uh, leaned on Hamas and tried to persuade them --
COATES: Hmm.
MILLER: -- that they're hostage for a diminishing asset. And I think Hamas's margin of flexibility increased. That's the sun. The moon, Arab states came together in a way they have not, leaving Hamas fundamentally isolated with only Iran as a reliable picture (ph). Sun, the moon, and now the stars. And let me be very clear. I worked for a half a dozen administration, Jimmy Carter to Bush 43.
COATES: Uh-hmm.
MILLER: No American president, Republican or Democrat, without exception, has ever pressured an Israeli prime minister on an issue that that prime minister considered vital to his politics and to his definition of Israel's security.
Trump's pressure on Netanyahu is why in the end we're having this conversation. The key question I ask going forward is whether or not Trump's focus, Trump's commitment, Trump's determination to stay with this, that's going to be a critical ingredient as to whether or not we get to phase two, phase three.
COATES: Uh-hmm.
MILLER: (INAUDIBLE).
COATES: We got the sun, the moon, the stars. Max, there's the big question about the hostages. The sources are saying that they could be released as soon as this weekend, which is unbelievably hopeful and wonderful news, I'm sure, for the families who are desperate to have them home. There are believed to be about 20 of them who are alive. As we reported earlier tonight, though, Hamas may not even be able to find and return the hostages that have died. So, logistically, what does this look like to carry out phase one?
MAX BOOT, SENIOR FELLOW AT COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS, COLUMNIST AT WASHINGTON POST, AUTHOR: Well, it remains very much unclear. And, obviously, there's a lot that remains very much unknown, not only about phase one, but critically about what happens after phase one --
COATES: Uh-hmm.
BOOT: -- after an Israeli pullback. Who's actually going to make up a peacekeeping force in Gaza? How is it going to be administered? Where is money to rebuild Gaza going to come from? So, there are a lot of unknowns. And I think we should be very clear that all of this could fall apart at any point. But I think right now --
COATES: Oh, wait. How do you stop it from falling apart, Max? How does that -- how do you stop that from falling apart?
BOOT: Well, I think part of it is -- is exactly what -- what Aaron said. I think it needs continued attention from President Trump. I think he deserves a lot of credit, he and his team, for getting us to the space where we may be just a few days away from the complete hostage release, which would be an incredible achievement if it comes off.
But again, I think to -- to, you know, emphasize what Aaron was saying, I think it's important that President trump not simply, you know, take a victory lap now and say everything is solved, peace has been achieved, you know, we can move on to other problems. I think this is going to take continued American engagement --
COATES: Hmm.
BOOT: -- to make sure that we move from that A, phase one that is very often, B, that we also move from phase one to phase two because we've seen before that there have been previous agreements between Hamas and Israel to free hostages, but then everything broke down in terms of figuring out what is the actual in stake going to be in Gaza. You know, President Trump presented a 20-point peace plan for Gaza --
COATES: Yeah.
BOOT: -- which I think is pretty good if it's actually carried out. But again, is it carried -- is it going to be carried out? And what are the specifics of who's actually going to carry it out? Who's going to fund the reconstruction? Who's actually going to administer Gaza? There's a lot of questions here. And I think, you know, things could easily go off the rails unless the U.S. stays very closely engaged.
COATES: Aaron, move us from the theoretical to the practical. Take me inside of Gaza. The devastation.
[23:09:58]
To say it's unbelievably extensive would be the understatement of a lifetime. Does this mean --
MILLER: Yeah.
COATES: -- through this deal, that Israeli forces will leave? What about the aid that needs to get into Gaza? What happens on the ground?
MILLER: I mean, Max -- Max is right to raise these questions, Laura, and you're right to talk about the practicalities of new implementation. The reality is it's not a -- it's not a coincidence that this is a phased plan. It's not a coincidence that there's only phase one implementation. And why is that? Because the mutual objectives of the Netanyahu government and the Islamic resistance movement, Hamas, right now are mutually irreconcilable.
Israel will not leave Gaza. They'll redeploy to an agreed line, which is probably far more intrusive than Hamas once and far less intrusive than the Israelis probably demanded. They will not leave Gaza unless Hamas is not only demolished as an insurgency, as a military organization, but that its influence is undermined and its weapons, its tunnel infrastructure, its rocket capacity, the labs to produce the rockets, all of this stuff is going to have to be somehow shelved and destroyed.
And Max is quite right, who or what is going to do that? No Arab force is going to deploy on the ground with Hamas, with their weapons, and the Israelis with theirs because no Arab forces are going to kill Palestinians and no Arab forces are going to hold Israel's coat while Israel kills Palestinians. Let's be very clear. We often forget the human aspect of this.
COATES: Yes.
MILLER: This is a win for 20 families who will get their -- their -- primarily their sons back and for 28 families who will go sitting Shiva, mourning in Jewish tradition. It will be a blessing, hopefully, for the two million Palestinian civilians in Gaza that may, if this last, have access to potable water, sanitation --
COATES: Hmm.
MILLER: -- medical care, and enough food. But beyond that, this is not the four-episode plan that Trump has, uh, described this as and it is not Netanyahu's version of total victory. It comes out in the middle, Laura. There's a chance to end the war. There really is. But, as Max said, and you've indicated, its leadership and its focus and its determination. That's what remains to be tested going forward.
COATES: Well, that's the most important part. Aaron David Miller, Max Boot, thank you both. I want to talk more about this and flesh it out with Democratic Congressman Josh Gottheimer of New Jersey. He's a member of the House Intelligence Committee. We have spoken before you represent, by the way, the district that's home to Edan Alexander, a hostage who was released by Hamas back in June.
Um, congressman, many people are wondering. They want to be optimistic, and they want to be hopeful. They're holding on to it, not the least of whom are the families who are desperate to have their loved ones home and a region that wants peace. But there have been signs of breakthroughs that have fallen apart before. How do they stop it from backsliding and falling apart this time?
REP. JOSH GOTTHEIMER (D-NJ): Well, first, it's an emotional night and an emotional week. Obviously -- what? Two years.
COATES: Yes.
GOTTHEIMER: Right? And it's the anniversary. And -- and I was with many of the hostage families yesterday --
COATES: Uh-hmm.
GOTTHEIMER: -- who want nothing but to bring their loved ones home, whether -- as was just pointed out, whether the, hopefully, 20 who are still alive or the 28 who aren't. The closure, being able to sit -- Shiva, um, in -- in memory of their loved ones. And so, I think that that is a very important thing to have, that closure and, of course, to bring home loved ones. And so, I -- I -- I can't stress enough how important that is and how emotional that is. And on my wall outside my office are the pictures of 251 hostages --
COATES: Hmm.
GOTTHEIMER: -- many of whom are no longer alive, many -- some who have been freed. I was with one yesterday, who was in captivity for 55 days but whose loved one is still in captivity. She wants nothing more than him to come home. So, you know --
COATES: Do you have a sense that this is the manner in which they want this done? That this plan, the phasing of it might be something that they are welcoming?
GOTTHEIMER: I think they just -- I think it has always been just to bring them home. Right? I mean, that has been --
COATES: Politics aside.
GOTTHEIMER: -- that has been -- that has been the rallying cry. Now, of course, you get into the other question, you've brought up, which is a really important one. How does this happen?
COATES: Yeah.
GOTTHEIMER: So, tonight, we just got a peek at a piece of it. Right? The piece of just pulling back to the borders, releasing the hostages, hopefully being able to find the remains of all those who aren't alive. Right? That's going to happen this weekend or early next week, assuming the Knesset votes, you know, the Israeli government votes tomorrow to move forward on that.
[23:15:02]
And then --
COATES: Excuse me.
GOTTHEIMER: Yeah.
COATES: Do you think that will derail it if they're unable to identify or find the remains of hostages? Would that somehow be viewed with obvious distrust that they have not held up their end of the bargain?
GOTTHEIMER: No, I think, because they were pretty clear that they think they know where everyone is. I think that has always been a -- a question mark. That must be very painful.
COATES: Of course.
GOTTHEIMER: But then there's the second piece of this. As we're talking about, well, what's the -- what's the governing body look like?
COATES: Hmm.
GOTTHEIMER: How is this going to work? Right? Hamas cannot -- no matter what, Hamas cannot be in control. They cannot be the governing body. They cannot be allowed to carry arms, right? And -- and -- and have a weaponized terrorist force there.
No -- no other governing body from the region is going to want to come in there if that's the case, as was just -- as was just pointed out. So that's really important. How logistically is that going to happen? What's that going to look like? How do you move -- that's the best way to move forward.
And then, of course, the hope is Israel re-engages with other nations in the region, and we can get more nations into the Abraham Accords and get back to peace in the region. That's the -- that's the ultimate goal here.
But, of course, there's rebuilding. There's -- what? You know, we've got to get the U.N. You know, I've been very critical of the U.N. for failing to be able to deliver the aid that has actually moved in. And so, how is the U.N. going to step up? Who's going to deliver more of this humanitarian aid? How does that get done?
So, there's a lot of questions, as was brought up here. But again, I'd start with this is a good night and a lot of leadership, you know, brought us here both in the last administration and, of course, in this administration. Everyone deserves a lot of credit for making that happen.
COATES: You heard one of our experts talk about the pressure that had been exerted by President Trump as, obviously, the incumbent president, um, on Netanyahu. But I want to also turn to the public opinion on Israel that has swung over the last two years, as you well know, when it started. Forty-seven percent of Americans sympathized with Israel. Today, that number, I learned, was down to 34%. This is according to New York Times poll, from 47 to 34%. How much of which influences that erosion of support do you think has had on getting phase one to where we are now?
GOTTHEIMER: I think it's clear that public opinion has waned. Right? And, as you've seen, antisemitism surged to record levels in the United States and -- and a lot of, frankly, disinformation and misinformation along the way. Of course, that has been a factor, but you've also seen -- what? People going back to the table and back to the table and back to the table.
And this is what I worry about the most because Hamas has always, at the last minute, thrown up a few (INAUDIBLE) of, like, wait, wait, but what about these two other points? And so, that's, you know, honestly what I'm worried about getting to the next phase, how do you make sure this continues, because we haven't figured out the part yet where Hamas has to say, okay, we're laying down our arms and, by the way, we're willing to not be the governing body here anymore.
They've got to put themselves out of business because otherwise, you can't -- you'll never have peace in the region if they're still there and still in charge. Right? The terror will continue. So, that's -- that is a very important next phase here.
And listen, I'm very eager to see public opinion come back because it's a very important alliance for our country, and I think there has been a lot of -- a lot of bad information out there and it has been really tough.
COATES: We'll see what happens. Everyone is waiting with bated breath. Thank you, congressman, for joining us tonight.
GOTTHEIMER: Thanks for having me.
COATES: We have so much more ahead tonight, including James Comey inside of a courtroom. He points the finger right at President Trump. And I'm going to unpack the fast and furious legal strategy that his team is planning to use to get this case thrown out. Plus, hundreds of National Guard troops are preparing to deploy into Chicago. Trump, meanwhile, is ready to jail the top Democrats in Illinois.
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[23:20:00]
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COATES: When was the last time you've seen this? A former FBI director in court as a criminal defendant. The correct answer is never, until today. And it was an extraordinary moment. James Comey pleading not guilty to charges that he lied to Congress. And not only that. We have a trial date, everyone. January 5th.
But let's not get ahead of our skis, okay? Because Comey's attorneys don't want to see that trial date. They want the case dismissed before it ever gets to a jury, long before January. And he is promising plenty of opportunities to say sayonara to the DOJ prosecutors when it relates to what he told the court. Full stop. "This prosecution was brought by President Trump" -- unquote. He was previewing a motion claiming vindictive, selective prosecution. Separate theories, but related.
And Comey's team is going to have plenty of evidence to show for it, like maybe this Truth Social post from Trump when he demanded the attorney general, Pam Bondi, to prosecute him just five days before he was, in fact, indicted.
And tonight, "The Wall Street Journal" is citing officials who say that that post was meant to actually be a private message to Bondi. Seriously? Oh, and Comey's team also has all of this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Comey and all the, you know, sleazebags.
Comey lied to everybody.
UNKNOWN: Brennan.
TRUMP: We fired Comey, that fraud.
That phony, crooked Comey.
Comey should hang his head in disgrace.
Comey is a dirty cop.
Comey is a corrupt person.
He's a leaker.
One of the best things is firing James Comey's ass out of him.
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: I guess they want to file all of that under the first motion to dismiss about the vindictiveness, perhaps. But the next, well, Comey plans to argue that Lindsey Halligan's appointment as the top prosecutor in the Eastern District of Virginia, that that appointment was unlawful. So, she can't bring the case.
[23:25:01]
He wants the court to believe. And you remember that the president picked her as the interim U.S. attorney there after throwing out the career prosecutor, Erik Siebert. Now, Comey's attorney is expected to cite the fact that Siebert had already served the 120-day limit imposed on attorneys that are not confirmed by the Senate. It's basically a technical requirement, but it's a serious requirement nonetheless.
Another motion would actually allege abuse of a grand jury. Comey's attorney did not lay out exactly what abuse he thinks happened. But he also plans to allege outrageous government conduct. Again, (INAUDIBLE) on the details. If you want to know what that means, take it from the DOJ's own website. "The conduct by law enforcement agents was 'so outrageous that due process principles would absolutely bar the government from invoking judicial process to obtain a conviction.'" That's the definition.
What do my panel of experts think about how this would be applied in a case against James Comey? Joining me now, senior legal affairs reporter for Politico, Josh Gerstein, CNN legal analyst Carrie Cordero, and former assistant U.S. attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia, Gene Rossi. Glad to have all of you here.
I want to begin with you, Josh, because I need your eyes and ears. You were actually inside the courtroom. Take me there. What was Comey doing when this went down?
JOSH GERSTEIN, SENIOR LEGAL AFFAIRS REPORTER, POLITICO: Well, he was already in the courtroom when the reporters were let in there, about 15 minutes before it started. It was pretty somber, pretty quiet. He spoke with his attorneys a little bit. And when the judge came in, Comey stood up, sort of ramrod straight, and stared straight ahead in the courtroom. And that in and of itself is a bit of a scene because Comey is 6 foot 8. And so, standing next to his female defense counsel is substantially smaller. He sorts of towered over everyone else in the courtroom.
And then on the prosecution side, you had Lindsey Halligan, this very new U.S. attorney in Alexandria who is former Trump lawyer, really doesn't have a lot of experience. Some of the things that the prosecution did even during this brief hearing sort of gave me the feeling they're a little bit green.
COATES: Like what?
GERSTEIN: Well, things like they were very deferential to Pat Fitzgerald, uh, Comey's defense attorney. You know, every time the judge asked a question, do you guys have an agreement on a schedule, do you have an agreement on a discovery plan, uh, Tyler Lemons, who was the AUSA, they brought up one of them from Raleigh, North Carolina, sort of deferred to Fitzgerald --
COATES: It was usually the other way around.
GERSTEIN: I've never seen at the outset of a criminal case the prosecutor deferring to the defense. But Lemons was pretty candid in saying, we haven't really got our arms around all the paperwork, the records, the discovery that's relevant to this case --
COATES: Hmm.
GERSTEIN: -- which is surprising in general in a criminal case, but not surprising in this case because we know Lindsey Halligan wasn't involved in it until a few weeks ago and these other two prosecutors don't seem to have been involved until a couple of days ago. So, there's no way they could be totally up to speed on all the details of the case that they need to be up to speed on to answer some of the judge's questions. COATES: And by January 5th, a trial date, by the way, on this point. Let me ask you, Carrie, on this because some of the paperwork they had to wrap their arms around includes some pretty serious previews of emotion. They're arguing that -- that she wasn't appointed properly, the U.S. attorney. They're arguing that it was vindictive, it was selective, that it's outrageous government conduct, it's an abuse of a grand jury. Think about these motions. Will they be successful?
CARRIE CORDERO, CNN LEGAL ANALYT: You know, I'm particularly interested in the allegation against the U.S. attorney, the acting U.S. attorney, not being legitimately in that position because that particular motion that the defense is going to make, um, enables them to make that argument irrespective of any of the facts of the case.
So, there's sort of going to be two separate tracks, one track that will evaluate the actual merits of the case, they'll have to get discovery, and then this separate motion that, uh, when you look at the statute governing acting U.S. attorneys and it talks about the 120-day limit --
COATES: Uh-hmm.
CORDERO: -- she was -- they were beyond that limit with the prior acting U.S. attorney, and then the president just placed her into this role really for the purpose, I think we all know, of bringing this particular case. And so, you know, there's not in the statute governing that acting provision. There's not really a mechanism that it would be enforced unless you have a particular case that is unique like this where she is the one who actually signed it.
So, any other case in the Eastern District of Virginia, you could have other AUSA who signed the cases, and so it wouldn't necessarily be an issue that could be challenged. But this particular case, because she was the one since nobody else in that district would sign this indictment and take it to the grand jury, this -- this case ends up being the vehicle to challenge this other law.
COATES: Which probably will dovetail to the abuse of grand jury claims. They're thin on the details. We don't know what that's going to look like.
[23:29:59]
But we do know "The Wall Street Journal" is reporting tonight, Gene, that that post from President Trump on Truth Social, the one last month saying that he wanted him indicted and lo and behold, he was indicted, he's saying that's supposed to be a private message. Is that going to change the way the defense team is going to try to use that to suggest it was vindictive, that there was somehow, as he said, President Trump is the one prosecuting this case?
GENE ROSSI, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: I don't think it changes it at all. I did want to add this on the interim issue.
COATES: But wait. Why doesn't it change it? ROSSI: Because when you -- when you file a motion for vindictive prosecution, all the emails, potentially all the emails and memos and documents that show a malevolent motive, that's fair game. And whether it was a public post or a private post, it's the president's post to members of his Cabinet or the Department of Justice.
COATES: And, by the way, Pam Bondi, yesterday in her hearing, did not in any way try to flush that out and said that she wasn't going to talk about that. She was evasive, to say the least, when she wasn't being defiant on that point.
ROSSI: Okay. What I'd like to say, though, is Sam Alito is going to play a big role in the dismissal of this case. When he was assistant attorney general or in a high-level position in the 1980s, he wrote a memo saying that in every U.S. attorney district, you only get one bite at the apple, you only get one interim U.S. attorney. This is the second one. She signed. You brought up a very good point, her signature is the only one on this indictment. So, if she has no legal authority to sign an indictment, then it's dismissed and they can't refile it. I did want to talk --
COATES: I want to go back to his point. You were in that courtroom when -- when these issues were obviously raised. The judge is aware of all these things. Did the judge give any insight as to how they were considering this or any questions about flushing anything out?
GERSTEIN: Well, the prosecution didn't say anything in response. I mean, Halligan was sitting right there in the middle of the prosecution table. But the judge did say that on this question of whether the U.S. attorney would be disqualified, which might lead to the whole case being thrown out, that he intends to send that issue to another judge. We've seen similar challenges to this. Things like this the Trump administration has done in New Jersey, in Arizona, and in California.
COATES: Uh-hmm.
GERSTEIN: And in each of those cases, they've used a mechanism to sort of get the issue away from the judges that handle all the cases in that district that the U.S. attorney might bring and send it to a judge from another district.
COATES: Okay.
GERSTEIN: And that's what Judge Nachmanoff said he plans to do here, ask the Fourth Circuit to reassign that issue, just that particular distinct motion --
COATES: Uh-hmm.
GERSTEIN: -- to another judge who doesn't sit in the Eastern District of Virginia.
COATES: A legal hot potato. But what if that doesn't work and the case goes forward, evaluate the merits of this claim?
CORDERO: What -- of which one?
COATES: The actual indictment against Comey.
CORDERO: The actual indictment? Well, as you all know, it is two counts and it is very slim in terms of the facts that are actually in the indictment itself. So, uh, he's charged with making false statements, and he's charged with obstruction of Congress.
And beyond that, it just references his September 30th, 2020 testimony where he was giving virtual testimony before the Senate Judiciary Committee in a hearing. And beyond that, the persons who are referenced regarding the allegation made against him, um, that he authorized somebody to leak some piece of information to the news media aren't identified.
And, as I understand it, in the hearing, the -- the defense counsel says they still don't know who some of these unnamed --
COATES: Hmm.
CORDERO: -- persons are. And so, the defense has so much information that it still is owed by the government for it to even be able to put on a defense and for the government to show any of its cards in this case.
COATES: Judges don't like that. They want everything clear for the defense. Thank you, everyone, so much. Up next, a threat from the president going after the Democratic Chicago mayor and the Democratic Illinois governor, saying that they should be in jail.
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TRUMP: Certainly of Chicago, it is not lawful, what they're doing. They have to be very careful.
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COATES: Be very careful. Someone who has heard a similar threat from the president and his administration is going to react next. Miles Taylor is here, everyone.
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[23:35:00]
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COATES: Breaking tonight, officials say that National Guard troops have begun their mission in the Chicago area. They are tasked with protecting ICE and other U.S. government personnel. But the thing is it's far from clear if any of this is even legal. Because you know what? We are just hours from now. There will be a court hearing to decide exactly whether it is. And Chicagoans are protesting the deployment of troops. They are marching tonight downtown.
The most heat, though, coming from the top. The president of the United States calling for the Democratic mayor of Chicago and the Democratic governor of Illinois to be jailed, saying they're not protecting ICE.
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TRUMP: I've seen the law. And when you have a -- a group of people where the police call off the safety for ICE officials, I've understood that, and I've read it today in numerous journals, that that's illegal.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: Well, the judge is going to have to think about those issues as well eventually. But the governor, Governor Pritzker, he's firing back and with insults.
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GOV. JB PRITZKER (D-IL): This guy is unhinged. He's insecure.
[23:40:00]
He's a wannabe dictator. And there's one thing I really want to say to Donald Trump. If you come for my people, you come through me. So, come and get me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: You know, I can't think of a better person to speak with than someone who worked closely with the president in his first administration, who's now an outspoken critic, currently under investigation by the administration, and a frequent target as well. Joining me now, former chief of staff at the Department of Homeland Security under President Trump, Miles Taylor.
Miles, you have been someone who has been targeted by the administration. When you hear statements like that from the president the United States, what do you think about when he is saying that they ought to jail the governor, they ought to jail the Chicago mayor?
MILES TAYLOR, AUTHOR, PODCAST HOST, FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF AT DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY: I mean, we're running out of adjectives to describe this moment we're in. And -- and -- and I also just have to say, Laura, when are we going to wake up to the fact that he's not joking? I -- I saw this time and time again.
Remember when Donald Trump joked about swapping Greenland for Puerto Rico? And it was just a joke, his aides said. And now, it's a foreign policy plank of this administration. And you remember in 2019 when he joked about pulling FCC licenses for networks where comedians made fun of him?
COATES: Yes.
TAYLOR: Or the joke in 2019. It's not a joke anymore. And then he joked about maybe not conceding the 2020 election if he lost. And he joked about sending troops into American cities. And he joked about retribution in a second term. And his aides said, no, it's a figure of speech. He means it in jest. Success is going to be his revenge. And he joked about locking up his critics.
Well, tell that to the Comey family today. I saw them walk out of the courthouse in Alexandria, Virginia. I don't think they thought it was a joke that the president of the United States wanted to lock up his critics. The man is not joking.
And so, when I see that he says that about a sitting governor and a sitting mayor, it's not a punchline he's testing, it's a trial balloon he's putting up to test how the public response. And if he thinks he can get away with it, the president of the United States will.
COATES: When we think about the trial balloon that is popping up, many people do take him seriously because they're seeing what's happening on the ground. And they have heard the warnings that you have spoken about, and they're saying this is actually unfolding in real time.
And there are some at the government level who are pushing back, like the governor saying that. There are some in the civil context and civilian context, including a Chicago pastor, who is suing the federal government for violating his First Amendment rights as there's new video that shows mass ICE agents firing pepper balls at his head during a protest.
The administration, though, is portraying these protests as violent riots, not First Amendment exercises of free speech. And they're saying they're tied to Antifa.
You recently tweeted this. "His troop deployments are a false flag meant to provoke a response in order to justify harsh crackdowns." Are the false flags working?
TAYLOR: Well, look, I used that language very deliberately because on the far right, for years, there has been all of this talk about false flag operations --
COATES: Uh-hmm.
TAYLOR: -- and psyops. And in almost always, it's conspiracy theories and it's not real. This is the first time in my memory that we're seeing an actual false flag operation play out. What do I mean by that? I mean, it's an operation designed to provoke the outcome they claim to be fighting.
In this case, there isn't violence in Portland that requires the United States military. We're seeing videos of people wearing chicken costumes and dinosaur costumes dancing in front of fences. It's not the war-ravaged city the president says.
But the point of sending the United States military in there is to piss off Portlanders enough that they protest in big enough numbers, that a small sliver of them decide to make it violent and create a scene, create a spectacle, harm law enforcement, and then provide the administration with the narrative and justification for further crackdown. I am telling you, having worked with these guys, this is what they are trying to do.
And it's no coincidence that after trying and failing in Los Angeles, trying and failing in D.C., that they've gone to a place like Portland because five years ago, in 2020, they had violent riots in Portland. They think that's a place they can make it happen again. That is definitionally a false flag operation to try to create a violent response.
COATES: Miles Taylor, thank you for joining.
TAYLOR: Thanks.
COATES: It's about to be the day nine of the government shutdown. And the question tonight, who's winning the message of war? Not the federal employees. Next, the major Republican cracks that are giving Democrats a hint of optimism.
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[23:45:00]
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COATES: We're about to enter day nine of the government shutdown, and tensions are really starting to rise in the halls of the Capitol, like during this heated confrontation earlier today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY): You're not going -- you're not going to talk -- you're not going to me.
REP. MIKE LAWLER (R-NY): Wasted on --
JEFFRIES: You're not going to talk to me --
LAWLER: -- fraud --
JEFFRIES: -- and talk over me --
LAWLER: -- and non-New York --
JEFFRIES: -- because you don't want to hear what I have to say.
LAWLER: Oh, I'm listening.
JEFFRIES: So, why don't you just keep your mouth shut? Because you showed up --
LAWLER: Is that way to talk?
JEFFRIES: -- you showed up, you showed up --
LAWLER: Yeah. JEFFRIES: -- and so, you voted for this one big ugly bill.
LAWLER: I signed on to this. I'm here on my behalf of my constituents because you shut the government down. And my constituents are suffering as a result of your ridiculous ploy because you're so afraid of Zohran Mamdani. By the way, when are you endorsing him?
JEFFRIES: By the way --
LAWLER: Do you endorse him for mayor?
JEFFRIES: First of all, first of all, are you --
LAWLER: Are you going to endorse him for mayor?
JEFFRIES: Listen, you're a -- you're a complete and total embarrassment right now.
LAWLER: Oh.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: The attacks getting personal at one point, as if that wasn't enough, as New York Republican Mike Lawler confronted Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries for his role in the shutdown.
[23:50:00]
And tonight, one high-profile Republican is even calling out her own party.
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REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): Everyone is just getting destroyed. And so, I'm -- I'm saying, look, Democrats, you created this mess. Republicans, you have no solutions. You haven't come up with a -- a -- a new plan in place. And we're not even talking about it. And it is hurting so many people. I'm literally calling it out and saying, let's take off our Democrat jerseys, let's take off our Republican jerseys, and we should do something responsible for the American people and fix this.
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COATES: Joining me now, founder of Endeavor PAC, Tiffany Smiley, along with CNN political commentator and former director of public affairs at DOJ, Xochitl Hinojosa. Glad to have both of you here.
Tiffany, let me begin with you. On that point that Marjorie Taylor Greene just raised, I mean, she's saying that -- she's calling out her own party. She is talking about no solutions, Republicans hurting people. Does this indicate that there is a messaging blame game that's now pointed at Republicans?
TIFFANY SMILEY, FOUNDER, ENDEAVOR PAC: Well, no. I think what she is saying is that the Democrats are actually doubling down and inflicting national harm on the American people while they just continue to pander and play to their far-left radical base.
COATES: Well, she said no solutions about Republicans, though. That --
SMILEY: Yeah, but she talked about the American people. So -- so, the -- this squarely lies on the Democrats' shoulders. According to the American people, uh, they -- they don't like any of this at all. The recent poll showed 70% of Americans actually oppose a government shutdown, 65% actually want Democrats, um, to join the Republicans with their clean, nonpartisan, continuing resolution.
So, there's the facts of what the American people want, and then we just continue to see these games being played. It's shameful that the Democrats are willing to sort of hold hostage our troops, military families, law enforcement. They're not going to be getting paid. And they're holding them hostage to pander to their far-left Soros-backed base. And that's what's at play right now.
COATES: Hmm.
SMILEY: They are using federal funding to hold hostage the Republicans because the question at play is it's 1.5 trillion wish list of demands --
COATES: Well, she's not buying this at all.
SMILEY: -- not serious.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
XOCHITL HINOJOSA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: -- Greene (ph) not buying at all is that the vast majority of the American people do not want their health care to go up. And that is just the reality. That is why Marjorie Taylor Greene is upset about this. Sixty percent of self- identified MAGA supporters do not want their health care to go up, and they believe that we should extend the ACA subsidies.
And Democrats have tried time and time again to go ahead and bring this up. They tried to put it in Trump's big, beautiful bill. They did not allow them to do that. And there is -- and this is the only time I will agree with Marjorie Taylor Greene. And this isn't about Soros. This is nothing to do with Soros. No one is talking about Soros. Soros isn't even talking about this.
SMILEY: Well, they're playing to the base, and that's what's holding out the government --
HINOJOSA: It's not the base. I would say that MAGA, self-identified MAGA Republicans are not the base. They also would like to see these health care subsidies renewed. But what I will say about this is she brings up a good point. There is not a lot of time here. The health insurance companies this month are setting the rates. People open enrollment starts in November. The health care costs will go up. And there is talk about a potential extension. And the reason why Jeffries said that he did not agree with that extension is because an extension for one year means that Republicans would potentially go ahead and say, sure, we'll promise this in one year, but then one year after the midterm elections, they could end up stabbing Americans in the back.
COATES: That's what Jeffries said about that issue. I want people to hear it.
HINOJOSA: Yeah.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEFFRIES: What world are these MAGA extremists living in right now to think that Democrats are going to go along with a one-year extension from a group of people, meaning the Republicans, who just permanently extended massive tax breaks for their billionaire donors? It's a laughable proposition. The democratic position has been clear. Permanent extension, and let's go from there.
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COATES: Tiffany, why should Democrats trust Republicans here?
SMILEY: It was under the Biden administration that the subsidies were set to expire, first of all. So, while it is important and that needs to be discussed, I want to bring up a quote that I found from Senator Chris Murphy in Connecticut.
He said, he said it best over a decade ago, there is a time and a place to debate health care just like there's a time and a place to debate energy policy and immigration and education, but not when funding of the federal government and all that -- and all lives that are impacted by it hang in the balance." So, the most important thing to get done right now is to fund the government.
[23:54:55]
COATES: But my question is, why should they trust that you will do that after they fund the government, and that the issue that you both have conceded is so important to American people, and healthcare will actually be addressed adequately?
SMILEY: Well, that's what, I believe, Marjorie Taylor Greene is talking about. Let's -- let's -- let's get there so we can fund the government, and then have the conversation about the -- about the subsidies that are important. And -- and they -- they stand on their own two feet and deserve their own discussion.
COATES: Well, then why -- is -- I mean, is this -- if Marjorie Taylor Greene is talking about Republicans have no solutions --
HINOJOSA: Yeah.
COATES: -- Tiffany is saying that Democrats hold the bag and the blame here. Republicans are in control of the White House.
SMILEY: They are.
COATES: Of course, the House and the Senate.
HINOJOSA: Yes.
COATES: Why would Democrats be blamed?
HINOJOSA: I don't know why Democrats would be blamed. I do not believe that they will be blamed. I think this ends one --
(CROSSTALK)
SMILEY: -- their 1.2 trillion is unserious.
COATES: I want to know why -- I heard your point. That's what Jeffries was talking about. But Xochitl, um, what can Democrats do to defend against that message?
HINOJOSA: Because there are one or two things that are going to happen. Either they're going to not extend it and there will be a few Democrats and voting for Republicans, the government will be open, and then Democrats will be using this in midterm elections or Donald Trump sees the numbers and understands that he needs to go ahead and extend these and come to a deal with Jeffries.
So, regardless of how this end, we are talking about people's healthcare and how this is impacting people's lives ahead of the midterm elections, and also end up doing something for the American people that is a good thing, which is making sure that their healthcare remains.
COATES: Let's all agree on one point. Federal workers ought not to be collateral damage in any of these discussions. Tiffany, Xochitl, both thank you so much. And hey, thank you all for watching. "Anderson Cooper 360" is next.
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