Return to Transcripts main page

Laura Coates Live

AOC To GOP On Shutdown: Pick Up The Phone; Judge Orders Trump Administration To Pause Shutdown Layoffs; Trump Confirms He Authorized CIA Action In Venezuela; Racist And Homophobic Texts From Young Republican Officials Prompt Backlash; Supreme Court Seems Poised To Further Undercut The Voting Rights Act. Aired 12-1a ET

Aired October 16, 2025 - 00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[00:00:00]

ALLISON: -- like have been deployed on them in this moment.

I think they should use it. You just said -- you just said we should get -- we should get rid of the filibuster, and that was something that I --

TODD: End this one. I want you to end this particular --

ALLISON: Okay. Well --

TODD: Yeah.

ALLISON: I don't know. I mean, I just -- this is a joke.

PHILLIP: I think we're already -- I think with this shutdown, we're already seeing Democrats employing Republican tactics, and that's why we are where we are.

Everyone, thank you very much for being here. And thank you for watching "NewsNight." "Laura Coates Live" starts right now.

LAURA COATES, CNN ANCHOR: Well, tonight, the government shutdown pain gets even worse as AOC tells Republicans pick up the phone. But the president's new move suggests he doesn't want them to answer.

Plus, he claims he's ended, what, eight wars now folks are asking, is he about to start one? And the racist messages from a young Republican group chat that Vice President Vance says no big deal. All that tonight on Laura Coates Live.

All right, here's a very scary thought for all of your calendars out there. Could the government shutdown outlast your Halloween candy and your turkey dinner?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Do you think by Thanksgiving the government could still be shut down?

REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D-NY): I mean, I would certainly hope not. I would certainly hope not. My hope is that we're able to resolve this as quickly as possible. They need to pick up a phone. They're saying that they're doing all this work. They are twiddling their thumbs and talking to each other. It is actually an unconscionable abdication and refusal to work.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Congresswoman AOC and Senator Bernie Sanders signaling at a CNN town hall tonight that an end to the shutdown is far, far away. But they certainly hope it's not comforted. I know you're not. Because it's day 16 of this stalemate and they're confident the GOP has a losing hand.

They're confident that the American people will side with the Democrats and put punish Republicans for the impending cuts to health care. And they are impending. But while that phone keeps ringing, President Trump is trying to assert his power through, well, let's just call it DOGE 2.0. He is slashing and burning the federal government, specifically federal workers and programs he thinks don't align with his policies.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OCASIO-CORTEZ: There is a fear over political retaliation by this administration and a singling out and isolating of career federal workers based on party affiliation, just in their participation in public civic discourse. And this is from a Republican Party that claims to believe in free speech.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D-VT): Can you imagine anybody ever thinking that it would be acceptable for somebody to say, oh, people in New York and California and Vermont, they didn't vote for me. I'm not going to put federal funds into those states. You didn't vote for me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Well, here comes the lawyers. The courts are stepping in. A federal judge in San Francisco is halting the president's planned layoffs. Judge Susan Illston says the administration has taken advantage of the lapse in government spending in government funds functioning to assume that all bets are off that the laws don't apply to them anymore.

So what exactly does she think they've chosen to ignore? Well, I can name a couple things, and so can the federal unions that are suing. I told you, the lawyers are coming into this because they argue the administration is outright breaking the rules that keep every agency in check. And not just one rule, many.

Which ones, you ask? Well, for starters, the one that says it's unlawful to carry out arbitrary and capricious firings. In other words, you got to have a valid reason. Targeting workers for their political affiliation or their perceived ones isn't actually one of them. And if you needed any evidence that these cuts were politically motivated, I bring you exhibit A.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: And we'll be making cuts that will be permanent. And we're only going to cut Democrat programs, I hate to tell you.

And it will be Democrat oriented because we figure, you know, they started this thing, so they should be Democrat oriented. It'll be a lot.

I mean, they call him Darth Vader, but he's actually a very nice person. Russell Vought, but Russell Vought is really terminating tremendous numbers of Democrat projects.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Well, Trump's budget chief, Russell Vought, was the grim reaper. Now he's Darth Vader. And you don't get a nickname like that unless you've got some scores to settle. Can we agree one?

[00:05:02]

One of the other rules the administration is accused of breaking? Well, the unions say the president has no legal authority to spend money that Congress hasn't approved. That's that old power of the purse conversation. And yes, that includes the money it takes to fire people because you got to pay severance. You got to cut final paychecks. You got to even pay the HR staff that carries out the layoffs.

But even with this ruling today, the Trump administration is vowing to press ahead anyway because Russell Vought, Trump's Darth Vader, or Grim Reaper, whatever the title is today, says he won't stop at firing the 4,000 workers we already know about.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUSSEL VOUGHT, DIRECTOR, OFFICE OF MANAGEMENT AND BUDGET: We want to be very aggressive where we can be in shuttering the bureaucracy, not just the funding, but the bureaucracy that we now have an opportunity to do that. And that's where we're going to be looking for our opportunities. I think we'll probably end up being north of 10,000.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: North of 10,000. And AOC saying she certainly hopes it won't go past Thanksgiving. Are we doing the math and the human toll? With me now, a veteran of the last government shutdown who voted for the ACA subsidies that are at the heart of this shutdown fight, former Minnesota Democratic congressman and candidate for president, Dean Phillips. Congressman, thank you for being here.

You heard that town hall Senator Sanders, Congresswoman Ocasio-Cortez. They were defending their stance on the Obamacare subsidies and the showdown shutdown. Well, maybe my Freudian slip was appropriate. It is a showdown at this point in time. What, 16 days in? Are Democrats in the right here?

DEAN PHILLIPS, FORMER MINNESOTA DEMOCRATIC CONGRESSMAN: Well, Laura, you know, let me start by saying I think most Americans are feeling what I'm feeling right now is we're just sick of the nonsense. It's not a Republican thing or a Democratic thing. It's a lack of a functioning government in what I consider to be the finest country in the world.

And I think that's the overarching feeling of most Americans right now. You know, it's not about who's right or wrong. You know, usually the party in power takes the blame. It happened in 2019. In fact, Laura, the first invitation to the White House by President Trump to The Situation Room was just two weeks after I was sworn in Congress in 2019, because I and a group of our problem solvers associates had a plan to get through the shutdown.

And those watching might remember the president caved that he wanted $5.7 billion for his border wall. He didn't get it. And when air traffic controllers started not showing up to work, flights were being delayed, people weren't getting their paychecks. The Republicans buckled on that.

COATES: Should Democrats buckle? Because that all prospectively saved the wall is ahead.

PHILLIPS: And I think on this -- in this case, Laura, you know, the impact of these subsidies for millions of Americans is really -- it is life and death. And that's just -- that's an absolute statement tonight. I think it was wise for Senator Sanders and Congresswoman Ocasio-Cortez to focus on health care. The system is a disaster. I think we're at the precipice.

We are the only nation in the world that does it this way, and there's a reason for it because it doesn't work. That is the focus. I do think it's wise for Democrats to put the attention on this

Now, if Republicans are willing to negotiate on that subject, as Democrats have made it kind of the linchpin issue, I think this can end very quickly because I know as a fact Republican members of Congress, both the House and Senate, realize the impact on these subsidies are probably more meaningful to their constituents than even in blue states. That's the fact.

I think this is really an effort by the Trump administration to do what you said moments ago, which is to further the DOGE initiatives of reducing the workforce, trimming the federal bureaucracy. And that, I think, is what's really going on, much to the chagrin of millions of people who are going to suffer. So nobody's right now.

COATES: So, there's an order of things that is the distinction between the two sides. Republicans say, open the government and then we'll talk about these subsidies. Democrats say, I don't trust you. Talk subsidies, then we'll reopen the government. Who has the better plan for the American people?

PHILLIPS: Well, first of all -- I'm not -- I have over some time in Congress, Laura, I was one who migrated substantially to the belief that we should have a national health insurance system that does not mean the public provision of care. I think it's really important to negotiate these subsidies, the ACA subsidies before, because the fact of the matter is there is no trust in Washington.

I don't think this administration in this case can be trusted. And I do think Democrats are correct to make that the issue and simply ask for that negotiation to occur.

[01:10:04]

I know there are enough Republicans in the House and Senate that would vote for those subsidies if that would end the shutdown and pass the rest of that budget. I think that's almost a certainty.

COATES: Let me ask you one of the things that has taken place in the last government shutdown. There's been a lot of people who have led one position before, maybe a changed one now in terms of how this looks.

PHILLIPS: Yes.

COATES: I talked to Congressman Byron Donalds who's running for office in Florida as well as governor. Florida is one of the hardest hit states in terms of the population per capita who actually do have the ACA. And he says no to negotiating on the subsidies. Other Republicans say they're not going to negotiate with Democrats until the government is reopened. That's the same position that you took back in 2019. What would you do in this moment now?

PHILLIPS: And I have to say I watched that segment with Congressman Donalds. He's a friend of mine, you know, I think he knows the impact of these subsidies. And the fact of the matter is hypocrisy rules in Washington. It's not unique to one party or the other. And as for --

COATES: Voters know. Voters know that quite well.

PHILLIPS: I'm sorry?

COATES: Voters know that quite well, which is why they're looking at a pox on both your houses.

PHILLIPS: And I understand that. And you know, it's not my job to apologize for the entire United States Congress, but it surely is my job to do what I can. And I hope everybody watching to try to inspire higher quality people to run for office, both Democrats, Republicans and those that run to get things done and solve problems. The lack of that on both sides of the aisle right now is astounding.

What I didn't hear tonight from Senator Sanders and Congresswoman Ocasio-Cortez is a plan because this system right now, Laura, is not working. And every battle we're facing right now is putting band aids or putting fingers in a broken dam. You know, we've got to fix the problem. We've not fixed a problem in this country for a long time.

I, you know, if soon to be perhaps Governor Donalds is in that position, I think he's going to be looking at this a little bit differently when it is his state that's going to suffer. And I think more Republicans and Democrats have to look to that.

One more thing on the subject, when I just heard President Trump in your earlier segment say that their focus is to trim Democratic programs. So does that mean, in my state, a Blue state, where 45 percent of people are Republicans, they should be the ones that suffer because of this president trying to make it a political game. That's the nonsense, Laura, that is so repulsive, and it's embarrassing, and it's about as unAmerican as anything I've ever heard. And that's a pretty low bar.

COATES: And yet here we are, and 16 days in. The sticking point, obviously, as you mentioned, the ACA, the timing of it and beyond, but the fundamental trust issue as well. But you mentioned battles.

PHILLIPS: Yes.

COATES: You know, Democrats don't seem ready to budge. Republicans don't seem ready to budge. They say voters are encouraging them to stand up and do something. There has been -- there wasn't a fight before, and now they want one. They want them to stand up against Trump and support the Obamacare subsidy. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JEFF MERKLEY (D-OR): Now, the pressure is completely the opposite. People understand it's over health care. And between the price of the insurance going up and the tax credits coming down, there's going to be a lot of folks who are terribly shocked. It's going to reinforce the message. And it also makes people aware that, hell, yeah, this is just the beginning.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Do you think Democratic voters want the fight or the shutdown?

PHILLIPS: Well, I think Democratic voters want better outcomes, those produced by Democratic, the Democratic Party, and frankly, the Republican Party as well. I don't think anybody wants the shutdown. The shutdown, Laura, doesn't solve anything. It'll be another footnote in history, just like all the ones in the past. Nobody even remembers probably what the last one was even about. That's really not the issue.

You know, the real issue here is people working together. You know, Senator Thune, Mike Johnson, Hakeem Jeffries, and Senator Schumer. By the way, I thought it was interesting. Tonight's town hall was not the leaders of the Democratic Party in the House and Senate, rather, the furthest left leaders of the progressive wing, which is, by the way, I think, one of the problems facing the Democratic Party when only those on the furthest left are elevated.

And, by the way, many of us share the same principles and objectives. But when we elevate those speakers, if you will, for our party and the leaders, the ones that actually can initiate conversations, sit at the table and get things done, are seemingly nowhere to be found.

And that's true of Mike Johnson and Senator Thune. These are guys who have an obligation to the Constitution, not to this darn president. And I'm just astounded by people in these positions of power so willing to put their own self-preservation ahead of this country. I am sick and tired of it.

You know I served in that institution for six years, Laura. I was appalled, disgusted and hell bent on trying to do better.

[00:15:05]

And this is yet just another example of the nonsense that's making us frankly the laughingstock of the free world. And that has got to end. That's the real issue right here. So nobody's going to win. Democratic voters don't want this nonsense. Democratic and Republican voters want health care, insurance that they can afford, food that they can afford, and lives that they can afford. That's the real issue and no one is talking about it.

Dean Phillips, thank you.

PHILLIPS: Anytime, Laura.

COATES: Up next, the president announces dramatic action against Venezuela. And no, it's not the strikes on drug boats. It is far more than that. And it has people wondering, is Trump going to war with the country?

Plus, DHS claims this video of a U.S. citizen being detained by ICE agents and is a year old, not laid to ICE at all. My next guest calls that nonsense. And I'll explain why.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[00:20:29]

COATES: You ever notice how the U.S. just can't quit covert operations in Latin America? I mean, the 50s, it was Guatemala, the 60s, Cuba and the Bay of Pigs. Molina in the Dominican Republic, Brazil, Bolivia, you had Chile in the 70s, Nicaragua in the 80s. I mean it's like a Hollywood franchise that refuses to die. Every decade it's a new cast, same plot. Universal had Fast and the Furious. The U.S. government has some version of COVID and Caracas.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why did you authorize the CIA to go into Venezuela? And is there more information you can share about these strikes on the alleged.

TRUMP: Well, I can't do that. I authorize for two reasons really. Number one, they have emptied their prisons into the United States of America. They came in through the, well, they came in through the border. They came in because we had an open border policy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Now, in case you didn't hear him, the President there said that he approved covert CIA operations in Venezuela. He's rebooting it. Like Vin Diesel keeps saying, one last ride. But this time there's a bit of a plot twist because the strikes that he has been authorizing on cartel drug boats are apparently just the beginning. The President today said he's actually considering strikes inside Venezuela.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What's the next step in this war on cartels? And are you considering options -- are you considering strikes on land?

TRUMP: Well, I don't want to tell you exactly, but we are certainly looking at land now because we've got the sea very well under control.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Joining me now is Congressman Raja Krishnamoorthi of Illinois. He's a member of the House Intelligence Committee. Congressman, welcome. I want to jump right into these strikes on the drug boats. They were on very flimsy legal footing to begin with, but now you have this approved covert CIA action in Venezuela and the potential for strikes inside the country.

I'm going to ask a question. People at home are obviously wondering, are we effectively beginning or at war with cartels in Venezuela right now?

REP. RAJA KRISHNAMOORTHI (D-IL): I hope not. I think that this is one of those situations that could escalate and become very dangerous very fast. Obviously, under the War Powers Resolution, only Congress can authorize the use of military force.

And I'm concerned about what's happening right now being a violation of the War Powers Resolution and War Powers Act. And I will be asking for a lot of answers to a lot of questions when we return to Washington as well.

COATES: Wait, so your committee hasn't been briefed on any of this yet?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: No, and I believe that this is one of those issues where, unfortunately, the intelligence community has been directed by the President not to fully brief Congress in the ways that it should be. And what we know is that the laws were designed for this type of oversight to happen. When it doesn't happen, bad things happen, secret wars happen.

You know, the American people, basically, in their name, are committing acts of violence elsewhere in a way that could end up in an escalating tragedy.

COATES: There is a great irony here in the idea that your committee has not been briefed. Yet there has been the announcement of a covert operation which is antithetical to a covert operation, as far as I can understand.

Any idea or rhyme or reason as to why the President has taken this course, publicly announcing that aspect and then not providing details based on what your committee would want to know.

KRISHNAMOORTHI: I don't know. And I think that this is kind of a pattern of behavior by the President that's deeply disturbing, certainly in Latin America. Again, I fear that we are kind of working our way into a war in Latin America. And again, the American people, only the American people, can decide this.

Now, if there are any clear and present dangerous -- dangers that the President needs to protect against, he should be able to act. However, and he needs to be able to explain to us why he was required to act. And that hasn't happened.

[00:25:03]

So now we're having an escalation occurring before our very eyes, and it could lead to real tragedy going forward.

COATES: You know, the President was asked about the potential of taking out leader Nicolas Maduro. Listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Does the CIA have authority to take out Maduro?

TRUMP: Oh, I don't want to answer a question like that. That's a ridiculous question for me to be given. Not really a ridiculous question, but wouldn't it be a ridiculous question for me to answer? But I think Venezuela is feeling heat.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: I mean, if part of the goal is regime change and removing Maduro, do you think any of the president's tactics will actually lead to that, given he didn't answer that question? But could it lead to that regime change?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: I don't know. I think that the question is really, you know, what is the President trying to down there? What is he authorized? What's the next steps? We haven't received that information. And without that information, it's really hard to tell what the cascade of events is going to be.

Now, is Nicolas Maduro a good guy? No, he's not a good guy. He stole the presidential election that happened last year. But the American people, in my humble estimation, don't want us to go to war. They don't want us to go into yet another war and yet another part of the planet. And at this point, the President is taking steps which could kind of cause a spiral which could be uncontrolled.

COATES: The war power has become even more significant. And the questions that you will ask. Congressman, I want to turn to ICE and about ICE's presence in your district. You've obviously likely seen this video that circulated earlier in the week.

It was a young woman being detained after she was reportedly warning people in a neighborhood about the presence of ICE and her parents. They confirmed the story to CBS News, but DHS claims it was actually video of a burglary arrest by police from last year. What's the real story?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: That is complete, utter nonsense that DHS and this assistant secretary have put out. This happened in my congressional district in Hoffman Estates at a residential neighborhood intersection, where, as you can tell, this woman, she happens to be 18 years old, a U.S. citizen was pulled out of the passenger seat, thrown to the ground, and the man with ICE put his knee on her neck.

She was then taken away and detained for hours. Her family was distraught. They had no idea where she was. She was finally God, you know, thank God she was allowed to go free. But in that, you know, time when she was -- her whereabouts were unknown they feared for her life. And that should not be happening in the United States of America.

You know, Donald Trump declared himself the chairman of the Board of Peace in the Middle East recently as part of his 20-point plan. And by the way, I commend him for what he's done in the Gaza Strip. But quite frankly, Mr. President, you're bringing mayhem to Illinois and to Chicago and to even my congressional district. And you need to make it stop. This is something that has to stop right now.

COATES: What do you say in response to the fact that he thinks that mayhem is there and that's the reason he acting?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: There's no mayhem in Hoffman Estates. There's no mayhem in many parts of the Chicago area where ICE is now disrupting life. They are separating families. They're taking 18-year-old women away from their families. They are snatching people out of schools, churches, hospitals, places of worship.

This is wrong. It's illegal. And they are also detaining them in ways that are contrary to the law and not subject to oversight. They are subject to oversight and they're not allowing us to conduct oversight. So, all of this is completely unacceptable. And we have to speak up, speak out and speak up against what's happening.

COATES: And this includes action towards U.S. citizens as well. Congressman Raja Krishnamoorthi, thank you.

KRISHNAMOORTHI: Thank you so much.

COATES: Still ahead, the Republican group chat seen round the political world full of ugly and racist messages. So why is Vice President J.D. Vance brushing it off as sort of the kids will be kids moment?

Plus, Zohran Mamdani goes into the Fox News den. Did the Democratic socialists come out unscathed? Dan Koh, Garrett Graves up late with me tonight to go through all of it, next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[00:34:42]

COATES: Fierce backlash from both sides of the aisle tonight after a new bombshell report from POLITICO revealing leaders of young Republican groups saying that impending racist and homophobic and antisemitic text messages in a group chat. Now Vice President JD Vance is brushing off those texts saying they're, well, kids.

[00:35:06]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

J.D. VANCE, U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: The reality is that kids do stupid things, especially young boys. They tell edgy, offensive jokes like, that's what kids do. And I really don't want us to grow up in a country where a kid telling a stupid joke, telling a very offensive stupid joke is caused to ruin their lives.

And at some point we're all going to have to say, enough of this BS. By the way, if they were left wing kids telling stupid left wing jokes, I would also not want their lives to be ruined because they're saying something stupid in a private group chat.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: I have kids. I hope you give them more credit than that. Now, to give you a sense of what Vance is dismissing as stupid jokes, POLITICO reports, quote, they're referring to black people as monkeys and the watermelon people amused about putting their political opponents in gas chambers. They talked about raping their enemies and driving them to suicide and lauded Republicans who they believed support slavery.

Not exactly riding without a helmet on your bicycle. Kid stuff, huh? POLITICO says one of these texters lost their job and another had a job offer rescinded. We should also note that several prominent Republicans, I'm sure there's many others as well, including Elise Stefanik and the Young Republican National Federation, have condemned these messages.

With me now, former White House senior aide to President Biden Dan Koh is also the host of the podcast the People's Cabinet. Also here, former Republican Congressman Garrett Graves. Glad to have both of you here. Thank you for joining.

Congressman, let me ask you this. I mean, you heard the vice president's comments. Some of these are pretty vile, if not all. Is it fair to characterize this and be dismissive as, look, kids are just being kids.

GARRETT GRAVES (R) FORMER U.S. REPRESENTATIVE FOR LOUISIANA: Laura, coming out of the gates, I want to be crystal clear. The comments that you read have no place anywhere. They don't entirely inappropriate. They have no place anywhere. In terms of the vice president's comments, what I heard him say in full context was comparing it to what happened some of the comments that the attorney general candidate in Virginia made --

COATES: Jay Jones.

GRAVES: -- and talking about how those comments were inappropriate and how you can't go out there and say those were OK and these comments were inappropriate. You have to have a uniform standard. That's what I heard the vice president saying. But I want to say again, the comments that were made, the ones that you read and other ones entirely inappropriate and they have no place anywhere.

COATES: I think the context is fair to point out. And I want to elaborate on what the vice president to say, because he talked about, first of all, a person who is very politically powerful, who is about to become one of the most powerful law enforcement officers in the country. The person seriously wishing for political violence and political assassination is a thousand times worse than what a bunch of young people, bunch of kids say in a group chat, however offensive it might be.

Do you smell a double standard or is he comparing essentially, all right, you want to be the attorney general, they're kids. Is that the point that should be made?

DAN KOH, FORMER WHITE HOUSE SENIOR AIDE TO PRESIDENT BIDEN: I think for me, this is a president and an administration that has enabled pushing the line further and further back to the point where there is no line anymore. This is glorifying rape, racial slurs, has no standing.

But then you look at the broader point, right? This is a president, a vice president, who laughed at putting people of color in sombreros, where the vice president said it was just a funny joke and people need to take a joke when people of color throughout the country were offended.

This is a culture where people are meant to feel shame for feeling offended these days, where a vice president and a president have glorified the fact that foreign born workers have had fewer jobs under this administration. Not necessarily people who aren't American citizens, by the way, but just foreign born American citizens.

That is not the country that I am proud of as a Korean, Lebanese person that I think we should be proud of as a proudly diverse America. I think that's what people are taking such exception to.

COATES: But what about the point, Congressman, to what Dan is saying, you know, the context and the comparison points. I mean, there is the idea of a line being crossed, but he also is speaking essentially of cancel culture. That's how I also interpret the vice President's comments. It suggests lives being ruined irredeemably based on these comments. That smacks of a larger conversation that's been had time and again by Republicans, by Democrats as well, is that you think that this is cancel culture at its place. GRAVES: Look, Laura, I'll actually double down on what Dean Phillips

said earlier. I think that Washington has devolved into just a big political fight. And I don't think that's good for America. And I think it's important to lay that out, that we need to actually stand for something, that we need to actually support what's in the best interest of America.

And I think we've seen political parties jump on any opportunity to slay the other side. I think that we all just need to focus on.

[00:40:00]

The comments were entirely inappropriate in the case of the Virginia Attorney General candidate and in the case of this text string that was recently released. And I think that we should wholesale criticize that type of behavior. And we need to get back to business, focus on things that are in the best interest of America and stop only taking shots at the other side.

COATES: You know, I should mention too, we talk about kids. I mentioned my own kids. The vice president talking about kids. The ages were like 24 to 35 of this chat. Kids, not teens, not young people. This is the age 24 to 35. But I want to move on to a younger candidate in New York. I'm talking about Zohran Mamdani.

He sat down for an interview with Fox News today and he was pressed, and I mean repeatedly, over whether Hamas should lay down their arms and reports that they've executed Gazan's who allegedly collaborated with Israelis. Listen to what his response was.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ZOHRAN MAMDANI (D) NEW YORK CITY MAYORAL CANDIDATE: My focus, however, is right here in New York City and transforming the most expensive city in America into one that's affordable for each and every New Yorker.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, and I want to get to that. Absolutely. But do you believe that Hamas should lay down their weapons and leave the leadership in Gaza?

MAMDANI: I believe that any future here in New York City is one that we have to make sure that's affordable for all. And as it pertains to Israel and Palestine, that we have to ensure that there is peace and that is the future that we have to fight for.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But you won't say that Hamas should lay down their arms and give up leadership in Gaza.

MAMDANI: I don't really have opinions about the future of Hamas and Israel beyond the question of justice and safety.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: He didn't answer directly. Is that the right approach? KOH: Look, I think Hamas needs to lay down their arms. I, as a

Lebanese American and a Democrat, are, am hopeful for the first time in a very long time that there can be peace in this region. And so I respectfully disagree with that statement.

COATES: Why don't -- why do you think he didn't answer the question directly?

GRAVES: Oh, I think he was worried about offending folks. I do. I mean, the reality is that there's a section of the population, probably a higher percentage in New York, that believes that Hamas is right, that believe that they should continue to be able to govern the region. And I agree with Dan. I think it's entirely inappropriate. I think he should have hit the question head on and said that they need to disarm.

COATES: You know, tonight, two prominent Democrats, Gavin Newsom, Cory Booker as well, they're taking heat after they dodged their own sort of set of questions on Israel. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: AIPAC. I will not vote for a candidate that takes $1 from AIPAC to understand.

GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM (D) CALIFORNIA: I mean, it's interesting. I haven't thought about AIPAC and it's interesting. You're like the first to bring up AIPAC in years, which is interesting.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why say that?

NEWSOM: Not relevant to the, my day to day life.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.

NEWSOM: Which is just interesting.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you think he's a war criminal? Benjamin Netanyahu, do you think he's a war criminal?

SEN. CORY BOOKER (D-NJ): I, again, these are questions that a lot of people think are the important litmus tests that are loaded and hot.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think the thing that Democrats get so frustrated with where we are right now, where you see like the Zohran Mamdanis and the Graham Platners rise up because you -- we can -- they can go on podcast and you can say, do you think Benjamin Netanyahu's a war criminal? And they, yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: You know, the number one way for a lawyer to lose credibility in the courtroom and will is if you don't say yes or no to the question that's being asked. You can explain yourself afterwards, but there's never a time you cannot answer the question. This is what Democrats are being criticized for Republicans as well. Why? Why do they do this?

KOH: Well, look, I think there's a larger point that I actually think is a positive on this, which is Democrats are realizing that being in these forums where they're going to get tough questions is something that's essential to part of the job.

And I think one of the things is most frustrating for people is that especially Democrats seem to be hesitant to go into difficult situations and defend themselves and their opinions. So I think that's critically important. I think when that happens, you're going to see more of these disagreements and that's a good thing.

COATES: Garrett, last word.

GRAVES: Look, I think that you've got to look at this holistically. What happened in Israel, the peace agreement was out, absolutely profound. I don't think Democrats want to talk about it. I mean, can you imagine what Hillary Clinton was thinking about when she hit send on that statement actually lauding President Trump and saying that this was huge? I don't think Democrats want to talk about it. I think they take the wrong position on Israel and I think that they're trying to pivot and talk about other topics.

COATES: Well, we'll see if it works. Obviously going to have to answer. Dan and Garrett, thank you both.

Democrats no doubt have every intention to try and retake the House, but things could get way harder. Why? Today's arguments before the United States Supreme Court in the case that could very well gut one of the crowning achievements of the civil rights era. Historian Michael Eric Dyson standing by. Next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[00:49:00]

COATES: Is the Constitution colorblind now? That's the question at the heart of a case before the Supreme Court right now, a case that could gut what's left of the Voting Rights act of 1965. I'm talking about Louisiana versus Callais. This case is about the Louisiana voting map and whether the state should have two majority black districts or not.

Now, if we're reading the TEA leads correctly, it seems the conservative majority, supermajority that is deeply skeptical about that second district. And the key justice to watch, Brett Kavanaugh. In a similar 2023 Alabama case about redistricting, Kavanaugh upheld the Voting Rights Act as it stands. But today he seems to be changing his tune.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

JUSTICE BRETT KAVANAUGH, ASSOCIATE JUSTICE OF THE SUPREME COURT OF THE UNITED STATES: The issue, as you know, is that this court's cases in a variety of contexts have said that race based remedies are permissible for a period of time, sometimes for a long period of time.

[00:50:10]

Decades in some cases, but that they should not be indefinite and should have an endpoint. And what exactly do you think the endpoint should be or how would we know for the intentional use of race to create districts?

(END AUDIO CLIP)

COATES: Sounds a lot like what was said about the formula of section 5 of the Voting Rights Act. Joining me now is Michael Eric Dyson, Distinguished University professor of African American and Diaspora studies at Vanderbilt University and co-author of many books, author of many as well. This one, "Unequal: A Story of America."

Michael, welcome back. I mean, that moment from Kavanaugh, how do you put a time limit on race? He's saying, any answer?

MICHAEL ERIC DYSON, PROFESSOR OF AFRICAN AMERICAN AND DIASPORA STUDIES AT VANDERBILT UNIVERSITY: Right. Well, look, let's have a practical metric here. Let's evoke a standard that says as long as you considered race to suppress black people, consider race to help black people.

So if you had 250 years of enslavement and Jim Crow and the like, then try it at least that long in order to remedy it. Now that we know in practical terms, that may never work. But certainly we must remember that race being taken into account is the very thing that led us to this damaging and dangerous precipice that we're on of losing a key feature of the Voting Rights Act.

We know in 2022, the courts ruled, the federal court said, look, this stuff is wrong. It's not favorable to black people, so you've got to redraw the map. They did so in 2024, and as a result of that, a majority minority district was drawn.

Now the court is coming along to suggest that time's up. We are finished with the consideration of race, not addressing the fact, has the potency of race been diminished and has the intensity of racial considerations been so mitigated that now people are engaging in fair and just elections.

We know that given the potential of the society in which we live right now and what's going on with the tax on DEI and so on, it's not a very propitious time for black people and black voters in this country.

COATES: You know, I was in the voting rights section, you know, this in the civil rights division. And you know, it reminds me, what did RBG say? It's kind of like putting away the umbrella because it's --

DYSON: Right.

COATES: -- raining and you're not -- and you're not getting wet. I mean, the idea that you would take away --

DYSON: Right. COATES: -- things that are really Section 2 without Section 5, that formula, the last real way to attack gerrymandering and the dilution of voting rights, the ability to elect a candidate of your choosing. That's what's at stake here. And we have no way of knowing, by the way, how many districts could be eliminated or changed.

But I want to show you. But Republicans could. There was an exercise they went to this, went through to see how many seats Republicans could squeeze out of some states. If the Voting Rights act is gutted by this case, they found Republicans could gain 12 seats. 12. And you're a historian.

DYSON: Right.

COATES: Could this set back decades of progress for voters of color in this country?

DYSON: There is no question that this would be a huge setback. The attempt to use race as a predicate to distribute goods was found to be wrong. But now in order to address the distribution of goods predicated upon race, they want to say we can't consider race.

So, you know, we used sugar to, you know, to worsen your diet. And as a result of that, we think that the removal of sugar will help you out. Well, that's great in terms of diets, but when it comes to race, if you've had race as a consideration to demerit people, you've got to have race as a compensatory value. That is to compensate for what you've done wrong against these people, to be a merit. And so this is the common logic that people should be able to figure out.

But the Supreme Court has proved not to be subject to common sense in some instances. And I'm afraid that we're going to lose so much with this judgment forthcoming from the extreme. I mean, the Supreme Court.

COATES: I hear the Freudian slip. It reminds me of your way with words. Perhaps that's why as of tonight, you are an inductee into the Hip Hop Hall of Fame. This happened. What does this mean to you?

DYSON: I mean, I guess I got some cred with my family. My 47-year-old son, you know, thinks I'm kind of hip now. He was there recording what I was doing. We met Slick Rick, we saw Nas, we saw Fat Joe. It was an extraordinary night.

[00:55:00]

I'm so deeply honored to be the first scholar to be inducted into the Hall of Fame. I've been writing about hip hop since 1987, so it's a tremendous honor.

COATES: But you don't happen to have the award? Can I see it? You have it.

DYSON: Well, I mean, if you just mention it. I mean, my God. It's pretty substantial. It's pretty heavy. This thing is wow. It's a weapon. So I was so honored to receive that award here tonight. It makes all the hard work pay off. COATES: The pen is mightier than the sword. So is the mic. Michael

Eric Dyson, that is everyone. Thank you.

DYSON: Thank you so very kindly. One mic. That's what Nas said.

COATES: Oh, God, here comes my playlist. Everyone, thank you so much. Thank you. And hey, thank you all for watching. Our coverage continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)