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Laura Coates Live

Epstein Emails Naming Trump Fuel Scandal; Longest Government Shutdown Officially Over; Democratic Voters Speak Out as Shutdown Ends. Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired November 12, 2025 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[23:00:00]

CHRIS MATTHEWS, AUTHOR: Yeah, I think you're right. And I think it's because he has never really sort of gone through the process of changing his life.

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR AND SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Hmm.

Maybe you shouldn't kill famous people because John Lennon's assassin --

MATTHEWS: I'm afraid --

ANA NAVARRO, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Maybe you shouldn't kill any people.

MATTHEWS: That's why -- that's why I disagree with you. I think Bobby Kennedy said you can't assassinate --

PHILLIP: Yeah.

MATTHEWS: -- and remove something.

PHILLIP: All right --

MATTHEWS: There's still a spirit.

PHILLIP: Thank you very much, everyone.

MATTHEWS: Hey, thank you for having me on. Good luck with your book as well.

PHILLIP: That's out, "Lessons from Bobby," and thank you very much for watching "NewsNight." You can catch me any time on social media. In the meantime, "Laura Coates Live" starts right now.

LAURA COATES, CNN HOST AND SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Tonight, Jeffrey Epstein speaks from the grave with never before seen emails name dropping Trump that are giving new life to the scandal that has already engulfed the White House. And the longest government shutdown in history officially over as President Trump claims the country is in the best shape it has ever been. I'm bringing back my jury box tonight. We'll ask real voters across the country what they think tonight on "Laura Coates Live." All right, so, what did the president know? And when did he know it? Two questions that have really propped up some of the biggest scandals in American history. Well, tonight, those questions are once again being asked. And they're turbocharged by the never-before-seen words of a man who once described himself as Donald Trump's closest friend, America's most notorious sex trafficker, Jeffrey Epstein. What a title.

Democrats on the House Oversight Committee released email exchanges that they received from the Epstein estate. And in them, Trump's own name. Here's one email released by Democrats written by Epstein to accomplish Ghislaine Maxwell in 2011. "I want you to realize that that dog that hasn't barked is Trump. (Redacted) spent hours at my house with him. He has never once been mentioned. Police chief, et cetera. I'm 75% there." Now, Maxwell then responded, "I have been thinking about that."

Now, again, that was 2011, around the same time the FBI began to consider that Epstein's crimes in Florida went beyond Palm Beach. Now, if you're wondering who 'redacted' is, Republican lawmakers revealed it's one of Epstein's most well-known survivors, Virginia Giuffre, who died by suicide earlier this year. It's important to point out that she said that she never witnessed any wrongdoing by Trump, and Trump himself has never been charged with any wrongdoing tied to Epstein.

But it does raise some pretty major questions, including over what Maxwell told DOJ number two Todd Blanch earlier this year, claiming she never saw Trump in Epstein's house.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GHISLAINE MAXWELL, CHILD SEX OFFENDER: I think they were friendly like people are in social settings. I don't -- I don't think they were close friends or I certainly never witnessed the president in any of -- I don't recall ever seeing him in his house, for instance.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: You would have followed up with the question, right? In fact, we had many questions. Well, Todd Blanche never really followed up, which I have to say is beyond absurd. We, trial attorneys, we don't want to ask one question too many, but really nothing? Seriously? I mean, if you are trying to figure out if she was lying or telling the truth or you want to confirm with other information or just explore the possibility, you got to at least push her, maybe show an email.

So, I wonder, did he even know about these emails? You know, I can't imagine the deputy A.G. wouldn't have been briefed, had everything in front of him in some way and prepared to ask the specific questions to get to the answers. But then again, I couldn't imagine an A.G., a number two, going down there himself at all. I wonder, does Todd Blanche now intend to follow up with Ghislaine Maxwell? She's playing with puppies, has some free time at the other prison that she's now at. If he does, there's plenty more for him to consider.

A second email is from Epstein to author Michael Wolff back in 2019 where Epstein wrote, "Trump said he asked me to resign, never a member ever. Of course, he knew about the girls as he asked Ghislaine to stop." Now, here's why this one is important. Epstein's own words allege that Trump had some knowledge of his conduct. Now, I pretend to know what he means fully. It's an email. You got to judge for yourself what you think it means. But what's not clear is what Epstein was specifically referring to, writing Trump -- quote -- "knew about the girls."

[23:04:58]

Is that Epstein's abuse of underage girls? Is it the notion that, in Trump's words, he stole girls from Mar-a-Lago as employees? Is it something else? Right for follow-ups, right? The White House says the emails actually clear Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: These emails prove absolutely nothing other than the fact that President Trump did nothing wrong. And what President Trump has always said is that he was from Palm Beach and so was Jeffrey Epstein. Jeffrey Epstein was a member at Mar-a-Lago until President Trump kicked him out because Jeffrey Epstein was a pedophile and he was a creep. This administration has done more with respect to transparency when it comes to Jeffrey Epstein than any administration ever.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Transparency. We're talking about the survivors who have been demanding the release of the Epstein files. They mean in full. Save some name redactions. Files that the administration doesn't seem to want out. But now, they may soon have no choice. Why? Well, earlier today, Democrat Adelita Grijalva, who was once a congresswoman-elect, was finally sworn in, giving Democrats number they need to force a House vote on releasing the Epstein files. You can queue the full court White House pressure campaign, by the way.

The administration then called an urgent meeting in the Situation Room today, of all places, and we're told the attorney general, Pam Bondi, was there, who you can actually see here. Todd Blanche, he was also there, along with FBI Director Kash Patel. And guess who else walked in? GOP Congresswoman Lauren Boebert, one of the four Republicans who defied the party and signed that discharge petition. But despite that meeting, Boebert did not pull her name from it. And remember, Congressman Thomas Massie isn't just supporting the petition, he's one of the lawmakers who wrote it. And with Trump and Marjorie Taylor Greene still very much on the outs, all signs point that this vote is happening next week.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE JOHNSON, SPEAKER OF THE UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES: It's a totally pointless exercise. It is completely moot now. We might as well just do it. I mean, they have 218 signatures. That's fine.

(END VIDEO CLIP) COATES: Completely moot now. I better look that word up again. Here to break down Epstein's own words, three key voices who've closely tracked this story. Former Palm Beach County state attorney, Dave Aronberg. His predecessor was in office when Epstein struck the controversial sweetheart deal in 2008. Senior reporter for "The Bulwark" who has covered MAGA's response to the Epstein story, Will Sommer. And the editor-in-chief of All Rise News, Adam Klasfeld. He covered the Ghislaine Maxwell trial. He's with us in studio today.

Let me begin with you, Dave, on this because these newly-released documents, I mean, they appear to create more questions than answers. And you say that some people should be worried tonight. Who are you talking about?

DAVE ARONBERG, FORMER STATE ATTORNEY, PALM BEACH COUNTY: Laura, there are three big losers with this document release. Number one, Trump, of course. This is yet another self-inflicted wound. Instead of getting in front of this controversy, instead of saying, yes, we were friends, then I ended it because he was a creep, he continues to gaslight us, saying this is a Democratic hoax. But the cover-up can be worse than the crime. There's no evidence that Trump committed any crimes, but he started acting like he did. And this controversy isn't going away until they release the files.

Number two would be Ghislaine Maxwell. As you pointed out, you know, she told Todd Blanche that she doesn't recall ever seeing Trump at Epstein's home. Well, these emails contradict that. So, she can kiss the pardon and commutation or sends goodbye for now. I can't imagine that Trump is going to do that unless maybe he's walking out of office the very end of his term.

COATES: Hmm.

ARONBERG: And then, finally --

COATES: Well, hold on.

ARONBERG: And then, finally --

COATES: On that, I see it differently. And here's why. She seemed to have said exactly the things that one would want you to say. If you were going to say, I never, Adam, in any way knew him or saw him there. Called him a gentleman at one point in time, I believe. I wonder, do you see it that her words are so contradictory from what Epstein says he saw in his house that it would remove the possibility of a commutation?

ADAM KLASFELD, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF AND CO-FOUNDER, ALL RISE NEWS: ARONBERG: I don't know if the commutation is actually connected at all to the truthfulness of her testimony.

COATES: Hmm.

KLASFELD: I mean, Trump's pattern of delivering pardons and commutations are much more geared toward loyalty to Donald Trump. And so, um, I agree with Dave here on the -- in the sense that there is no way to read what this email says as at all consistent with what she told Todd Blanche.

But that wasn't the assignment. The assignment with Todd Blanche was to distance, uh, Trump from this scandal. And that's what she did.

[23:10:00]

And I don't think that's going to be part of a thoughtful consideration by one Ed Martin in the pardon attorney office.

COATES: You know, I wonder because her statements talked about not having recollection and all the different statements she was making. And then her email saying, "I had been thinking about that," with respect to Epstein's own words. Again, she's a convicted, you know, criminal at this point and for the reasons that the jury found and the court found.

Will, President Trump has consistently denied any wrongdoing. But then there's this moment where Epstein alleges Trump knew of his conduct, saying, "Of course, he knew about the girls as he asked Ghislaine to stop," and then "I know how dirty Donald is." I mean, how does the MAGA base see this?

WILL SOMMER, SENIOR REPORTER, THE BULWARK: I mean, those are some very weird emails.

COATES: Yeah.

SOMMER: Some of them precede Trump's political career. So, it's sort of what would the advantage to Epstein be of -- you know, if he was making this up in emails. It's unclear.

COATES: But he's not clear what it means, that he knew about the girls.

SOMMER: Exactly. I mean, Epstein has a very kind of cryptic writing style, very clipped. So, it's often hard to see exactly what he's up to. In this case, I think the past few months we've seen since the initial Epstein blow up in July when the DOJ tried to close this case, I think the Trump administration's efforts to suggest that being interested in the Epstein case is just sort of a liberal plot or a liberal fiction.

COATES: Hmm.

SOMMER: I think that has paid some fruit to the administration. I think there are a lot of people in right-wing media who say, well, this is a Democratic distraction.

COATES: So, how will the vote go next week?

SOMMER: Well, I think the Republicans who have supported the discharge petition will stick with it. And I think these emails do put more pressure on Republicans in general to follow through and to at least investigate to some extent.

COATES: Dave, you're a prosecutor. You know the investigation process quite well. I mean, there's a lot of the politics at play, as you know. But then it's the idea of the Epstein files -- the Epstein estate, excuse me. It was the DOJ that released these documents to the House Oversight Committee. Congressman Ro Khanna is questioning why the DOJ didn't obtain these earlier. Do you have any insight as to the role of the estate here going forward in terms of a criminal context possibly versus the congressional oversight?

ARONBERG: I don't see any crimes being prosecuted by this administration relating to Epstein. And I think by the time that Trump leaves office, I think this issue will subside. I do think, eventually, the files will be released, but I think it'll take until Trump leaves office.

As far as why DOJ didn't have these emails, I think this is all in the Epstein file, but they're not being released at the orders of Donald Trump. The reason why the Epstein estate released this is because they received a subpoena because three Republicans joined the Democrats on the committee to go ahead and vote over the objections of the majority of Republicans to issue these subpoenas to the Epstein estate. That's what set this in motion. This is the day that Trump wished had not arrived.

COATES: Adam, you covered Ghislaine Maxwell's trial. You know this case so well. When you look at the arc of this entire case, from the sweetheart deal to the moving of her to this other prison where she's getting, according to whistleblower, all sorts of benefits, even the help of potentially the warden and crafting a commutation application, the Epstein friendship with Trump is still the core of people's questions and what they're wondering about, what can you tell us about the way that's playing out now?

KLASFELD: I think that what is playing out now is that -- some of the things that we had heard about for a long time. We heard about the recruitment of Virginia Giuffre at Mar-a-Lago and court proceedings in Ghislaine Maxwells's trials. We had seen the flight logs. What happened today, what was made clear from the emails from Epstein's estate is that Epstein said, yes, he knew about the girls. The suspicion, the knowledge, that question was a key piece of the puzzle, and that's what made today such a watershed.

COATES: The fact that Virginia Giuffre in the past has said that she and has not implicated Trump in any way, does that throw cold water on the revelations of today?

KLASFELD: I don't think so at all. I think it's almost beside the point. It wasn't about whether that victim accused Trump of any wrongdoing in that room. It was about his knowledge, and that was the context. It didn't matter who was behind that redaction. It was who was the dog who hadn't barked, who did Trump know about the girls --

COATES: Hmm.

KLASFELD: -- and that's what made these particular emails so explosive.

COATES: They went to the Situation Room today. It strikes me that this must be a particularly elevated level of concern in the White House to bring in a congressperson, Lauren Boebert, to bring in the FBI director, the attorney general, Todd Blanche as well. Tell me about the level of concern in the White House tonight.

SOMMER: I think it's clear that the administration is very concerned about this story.

[23:14:59]

I mean, this is a full court press to try to convince Lauren Boebert to drop out and, you know, to her credit, I think she didn't. But --

COATES: Do you know why she said no?

SOMMER: I mean, one thing I believe she said -- you know, when you push her that much, she's -- she sorts of going to dig in and -- you know, for one aspect of it. But it is -- it's almost unprecedented, I think, to have one member of Congress in to get sweated by so many people, high-up people in an administration on an issue that the administration and Mike Johnson claim they don't really care about. You know, we know Trump has said, oh, Epstein, you don't hear that name much anymore. So, I mean, the public face they put on is, oh, this doesn't matter, but privately, it's obvious they're very concerned about it.

COATES: I mean, they're bringing in some of the highest level and powerful people in the DOJ on this very issue. Thank you, everyone.

Up next, the central witness in Epstein's 2019 indictment with her reaction to the emails and the response that the White House is saying, calling it yet again a hoax.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:20:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COATES: House Speaker Mike Johnson announcing tonight the House will take a full vote next week on whether to compel DOJ to release all of the Epstein files or not. It's a fast turnaround after weeks of delays coming from the Republican speaker. But the pressure will be on because, also next week, a group of Epstein survivors will hold a press conference right outside the Capitol demanding yet again that all the files be released.

One of those survivors is my next guest, and she was known as "Minor Victim One" in Epstein's 2019 indictment. Marina Lacerda joins me now. Marina, I have got to know what your reaction was when you first learned the president was mentioned by Epstein multiple times in these emails, especially, Marina, the emails where Epstein says Trump -- quote -- "knew about the girls" -- unquote.

MARINA LACERDA, EPSTEIN SURVIVOR: Yeah. You know -- first of all, thank you for having me. And I just have to say, we are -- we have no words. The recent Epstein emails are deeply personal and unsettling at this point. They suggest that Donald Trump was aware of the abuse and even tried to intervene --

(LAUGHTER)

-- yet he's now sticking his neck where it doesn't belong by blocking the release of these files. This fight for transparency isn't about politics. It has become about politics, which it shouldn't. It's about justice, it's about truth, it's about healing for the survivors like myself.

I really hope Congress will stand with us and finally bring the truth to the light. And, you know, we, the public and the survivors, deserve transparency. This is enough already. I mean, we've -- we've done already so much at this point.

COATES: One very powerful person, of course, is the deputy attorney general of the United States who, as you know, went down and met with Ghislaine Maxwell while she was in prison before her being transferred to what many looked at as more of a prison camp.

Um, one of the emails suggests that Ghislaine Maxwell was aware that Trump spent time at Epstein's house. But there was a few months ago that she told that powerful individual I told you about, Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche -- quote -- "I don't recall ever seeing him in his house." Now, I'll note that CNN has reached out to Maxwell's attorney for comment as well.

Given the relationship, the conversation between Todd Blanche and Ghislaine Maxwell during that interview, do you trust that the DOJ is properly handling the investigation?

LACERDA: Absolutely not. Unfortunately to say, they are not handling this in any correct way. I'm truly sad and frustrated to see Ghislaine Maxwell not only lie about Trump's involvement, but also be moved to an easier facility. It feels like a slap in our faces, to all the survivors, especially Virginia, who has fought so hard for justice. Her asking for an early release as well just adds to the pain and the confusion. This reminds us that we still have a long way to go for real accountability and respect. We will continue to fight for Virginia and for the truth.

COATES: I have a lot of questions as to why the deputy attorney general did not ask questions about certain emails in particular. Did he know them? Did he ignore them? That's a looming question for everyone. I will note that Virginia Giuffre never implicated Trump in any wrongdoing specifically.

I want you to listen to what White House Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt said just today about these new emails everyone is hearing so much about. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEAVITT: It just shows how this is truly a manufactured hoax by the Democrat Party for -- now, they're talking about it, all of a sudden, because President Trump is in the Oval Office. But when Joe Biden was sitting in there, the Democrats never brought this up. This wasn't an issue that they cared about because they actually don't care about the victims in these cases. They care about trying to score political points against President Trump.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Well, first of all, Democrats have been ringing the alarm for quite some time. And here is this word again, hoax. There has been a lot of words that have been flung at survivors. This one, I know in the past you found particularly cruel. What's your response?

LACERDA: Well --

(LAUGHTER)

-- you know, it's -- I think, earlier today, I even said it. At this point, we are not even paying attention anymore when they call us a hoax.

[23:25:03]

COATES: Hmm.

LACERDA: They have given us more of a chance to speak more than ever now. So, I think by them saying that we're hoax has actually helped us out. So, I'd actually like to say thank you to you, guys, to giving us the voice and the platform, you know, and all this to actually speak. So, it actually, you know, helped us out.

But I do have to say, this is not about politics, okay? It's about justice and healing for all the survivors, transparency for the people, okay? Holding back these files only delayed the truth and undermines the accountability that survivors deserve. It's time to let the files go, to let them -- to let them go. And stop trying to distract us by saying that we're hoax. It's -- it's -- it's getting old with that stuff already now.

COATES: If Maxwell's sentence is commuted or she's pardoned, what would be your reaction?

LACERDA: I'm already truly saddened and frustrated to see Ghislaine Maxwell lie about everything. And if she is pardoned, it will be a slap in our face and also in Virginia's face and her family who was fighting so hard for this and has been fighting. Um, we won't allow that to happen. We won't allow it.

COATES: Marina Lacerda, thank you.

LACERDA: Thank you so much.

COATES: Still ahead, reaction from a Republican member of the House Oversight Committee, Congressman Tim Burchett, who has been wanting to hear from Ghislaine Maxwell. You know what? He'll join me next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:30:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COATES: Well, Democrats aren't the only ones demanding transparency with the Epstein files. At least four Republicans have signed on to the discharge petition to force a vote urging the DOJ to release the files. My next guest says he will vote yes when it comes to the floor.

Tennessee Congressman Tim Burchett joins me now. Congressman, thank you for being here. It has been quite a day, including an attempt by you to force an expedited vote to release the Epstein files. Tell me, did today's revelations about these emails and beyond, do they motivate you to make that move?

REP. TIM BURCHETT (R-TN): No, ma'am, not really. I haven't even seen the emails. For what I understand, it's from a lady who asked that her name be removed, but she also hasn't sworn testimony saying Trump didn't do anything to her. And so, I'm incredibly, uh, fearful of what's going to happen from both sides. They're going to start taking pieces out of it, out of context.

And, you know -- and when we had closed door, uh, meetings with some of these ladies who were little girls then, one lady even asked -- and asked if she could have these -- have access to these files. I said, so you want them released? And she said, no, I don't, I blacked out everything, I just want to know what happened to me during that horrific time in her life, And I don't want the public to know.

So, Chairman Comer is actually going about the right way. The Republicans have had these files for about nine months. The Democrats had them for four years. I mean, let's be honest, if something was on there about Donald J. Trump, god dammit, Biden and Kamala Harris would have had it out in a minute. I mean, he's the antichrist to them.

COATES: Well, the estate had a lot of these documents as well, congressmen. There was that issue in terms of what they were going to hand over. I take your point as a larger one. I did speak to a victim earlier tonight. She's one of the people, one of the survivors who has said that she wants the information released. Redactions, of course, for those -- the sensitivity of the victims' names and beyond. But you almost make the case by talking about the cherry-picking that you fear to release it in full and let the public see for themselves.

BURCHETT: Yes, ma'am. What I'm afraid is the politicians will be just taking advantage of these folks and putting out things because everybody knows Jeffrey Epstein was a world-class name-dropper, and I hope he's burning in hell right now.

But the reality is that he -- there will be people in those files. I mean, you yourself understand the law profession probably better than most and that there are things that have been discussed, have been adjudicated possibly and gone over that are not accurate, and then they were just going to release all of that. I think there should be a method to clarify these ladies that don't want to be in there, the innocent people that are in there that could be removed. So, I just don't -- just because somebody flew on his god damn plane doesn't mean they're a pedophile. COATES: Certainly, the presumption of innocence will continue. It doesn't always have a role in the court of public opinion, as you well know, but the information is wanted by so many. And Congressman Speaker Johnson says that the vote will happen actually next week. Massie is predicting that a lot of Republicans actually will support the bill. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. THOMAS MASSIE (R-KY): I think there's going to be a deluge of Republicans. The longer this goes on, the more support we gain. And I think the speaker recognized that. That's why, after months of trying to stop us, he has decided to accelerate the vote, because he knows we're going to get votes, and that's going to carry momentum into the Senate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: You know, you're with your Republican colleagues. Do you get the same sense?

BURCHETT: I think you're going have a lot of Republicans vote for it. I'd expect there'll be more than 40 at least. I'll be one of them. I've never been shy about that.

COATES: Well, congressman, I want to turn to something that the voters care a lot about, particularly --

BURCHETT: Yes, ma'am.

COATES: -- during this longest ever shutdown. It's now over.

[23:35:00]

The president had just signed a bill a little more than an hour ago now to reopen the government. He says that the government is in the best shape it has ever been. Do you agree?

BURCHETT: Well, I think it's in better shape now than it was a few hours ago. I, along with a few other of my colleagues, refused to take payment during the -- during the shutdown. I met with -- with some TSA folks, and I met with air traffic controllers. I was making sure that -- like we got poor folks around where I live, and the electricity and their electricity bill, they weren't able to pay it. We were going into a horrible cold snap --

COATES: Hmm.

BURCHETT: -- and I met with the CAC, the ladies from there who've been great friends of mine for years since I was in the state legislature, and we were making sure our utility districts were able to provide that if it was to run out, if their funds were to run out.

So, I -- I get what was going on in our country, ma'am. And I'm not up here to cause any pain with anybody. And that's why I get so aggravated with the folks that allow this to go on for so long because they scared a lot of people. And god dammit, that's just wrong.

COATES: Well, the president -- the president suggested in his phrase that Democrats try to extort our country, talked about this being an excursion done for politically -- purely political reasons. Do you think the Democrats are trying to extort the country in this way?

BURCHETT: Yes, ma'am, I think they played with people's emotions and they hurt people unnecessarily, and I think that's wrong. That was completely wrong.

COATES: No blame to Republicans?

BURCHETT: That's why you have -- that's why you had six or seven Democrats in the Senate. They realized this went on long enough. They got absolutely nothing out of this, and -- and they realized it. They realized Chuck Schumer was doing this just for political gain. He's worried about AOC.

I don't know what it is about these men up here that are afraid of strong -- strong women. My mama was a strong woman. I'm married to a very strong woman. My chief of staff in Knoxville and here in Washington, D.C. are strong women.

And AOC, I think, will take him on. I think -- I talked to her tonight. You know, she'll announce tomorrow -- if she announces tomorrow, she'd raise $10 million over the weekend. They'd be throwing money at her fast. She'd be record in amounts because people are sick of Chuck Schumer, sick of him. I --

COATES: When you -- when talked to her tonight about -- you talked about running. What did she say?

BURCHETT: She smiled and -- smiled and said, thank you, Burchett. I mean, you know, she's my friendly neighborhood Marxist. I realized she's just about as far left as I am right. But, you know, she actually believes that garbage, and that's why I can -- I can actually -- she and I are friends. I don't agree with her on anything. You know, when she has death threats, I pray for her safety. And I've defended her against a physical altercation once before. And so, you know, look, I -- I'm from Tennessee. We respect, we are crazy about ladies, and I love them in leadership. I just don't agree with her politically.

COATES: Well, clearly, you just called your friendly neighborhood Marxist. I can see --

BURCHETT: Yes, ma'am.

COATES: -- your point as to why you don't agree. But Congressman Tim Burchett, thank you so much.

BURCHETT: Thank you, ma'am. It's always a pleasure being on with you all.

COATES: Thank you. Up next, the shutdown is over, and Democrats didn't get what they wanted. So, what do their voters think? You know what? I've got eight of them from around the country, and they're ready to sound off, next.

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[23:40:00]

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: They caused tens of thousands of federal contractors and small businesses to go unpaid. And the total effect of the damage their antics caused will take weeks and probably months to really calculate accurately, including the serious harm that they did to our economy and to people and to families. So, I just want to tell the American people, you should not forget this. When we come up to midterms and other things, don't forget what they've done to our country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Well, that was President Trump tonight blaming Democrats for the 43-day government shutdown that is now officially over. You heard him tell the public that they should not forget it when the midterms come up. Well, Democrats are saying the same thing, but through a very different lens, hoping that voters don't forget the fight they put in to try and lower health care costs.

We have an audience of some Democratic and Democratic-leaning voters from all across the country here with us tonight to talk about the state of the party in the wake of the shutdown fight. And we've got the perfect guest to help field some of their questions and their comments, former Republican congressman-turned Democrat, Joe Walsh. So good to have you all here.

I want to begin. Give me a show of hands. Who thinks that the Senate Democrats who voted to reopen the government did the right thing?

JOE WALSH, PODCAST HOST, FORMER ILLINOIS REPRESENTATIVE: Yes.

COATES: Wow! Very few hands, too. Okay. Well, let me ask you, 03. I got a third person weighing in as well. Ray (ph), let me go to you. You are shaking your head no. Tell me why.

UNKNOWN: I think that the Democrats were in the perfect, uh, form after winning elections last week to -- to have the upper ground and to, uh, hold off, hold things down. I think, uh, polls have been showing that the majority of Americans felt that the Republicans and President Trump were, uh, responsible for keeping the government closed.

[23:45:05]

And I think this would have been the right time to have just held the ground and, uh, you know, try to see this through.

COATES: Joe, what do you think? You're nodding, too. WALSH: Well, I'm nodding. As a new Democrat, Ray, I agree with you. I think Democratic voters want their party to fight, Laura. You and I hear that every day. Fight, Democrats. And I kind of felt that way. If you're going to get into this shutdown thing, see it to the end.

COATES: What was the end?

WALSH: The end was to extend these health care subsidies for 42 million Americans. That higher principle.

COATES: Talk to me about the principle. Julie (ph), you're nodding your head in agreement. You see that it has a principle-based argument. Is that right?

UNKNOWN: Yes, I would have to say so.

COATES: Stacey (ph), you agree?

UNKNOWN: Yeah, I agree. I feel like there was a lot of suffering. That actually has already occurred, you know, between our furloughed federal workers and the SNAP benefits and such. And I think that all of that kind of -- we just let go of that little bit of leverage, right? And there was a lot of suffering that occurred. And we could have -- we could have just held out a little longer and probably helped a lot of people kept that going a little bit longer and, hopefully, helped a lot of people in the meantime.

COATES: Renee (ph), you don't see the same discussion about leverage. What do you think?

UNKNOWN: You know, I -- I -- I agree with everyone. I think the Democrats have to fight harder. I just think this was the wrong fight. And I blame both sides and the president. Um, we shouldn't mess with 42 million people who are suffering, you know, not getting their SNAP benefits, the federal government workers. I just -- I just don't think this was the right fight. I do support continuing the Obamacare cuts, but I just don't think we should have done it in this way. I just think it was a wrong -- the wrong fight.

COATES: Jesse (ph), when you look at this, what are your thoughts in terms of the fight being over? Some of the people in the audience think that it was the wrong fight to begin with. What do you think?

UNKNOWN: Yeah, I think the fight is a good fight to have, but I think you have to realize that with this administration, they don't fight fair. And we've seen that with -- with the SNAP benefits cuts, with the -- just taking people that are in a disadvantaged position to begin with and making their problems even worse as leverage. And that's just something, I think, unfortunately, was going to continue. So, I don't blame the few Senate Democrats that went that route for trying to realize that we need to stop hurting people and we need to figure out another way to do this.

COATES: I mean, I want to hear another show of hands here because Trump has been struggling with the cost of living issue. But I want to have a show of hands. Who thinks Democrats have been articulating a strong plan to make life more affordable?

WALSH: Hmm.

COATES: Ooh, yikes.

(LAUGHTER)

I don't see any hands there. Nadia (ph), tell me what your thought is.

UNKNOWN: I just feel honestly that, um, they have bigger issues on result. And I just feel like they are not coming from a place of stronghold. And I just feel like it's almost like the Republicans are trampling them down. There isn't like a strong case for let's fight this and resolve this. So, I feel like it leaves the issue of trust. You know, are we trusting our government leaders to make good -- make good decisions, health care subsidies, the extension? Like -- like what -- what is happening? So, I feel like the issue of trust is very important.

COATES: Not one hand raised --

WALSH: Yes.

COATES: -- about Democrats having a strong plan.

WALSH: That's stunning. But it goes to what do Democrats stand for. And Laura, I think Democratic voters have a hard time answering that.

COATES: It's an -- it's an important question. There has also been obviously an election recently. There has been a big debate, Joe, about how much the party should be paying attention to people like the mayor-elect, Zohran Mamdani, and the more progressive positions that he has had. Do you think he should be seen as one of the leaders of the party?

WALSH: I think he -- I think, Laura, he has to be, and I say that as a new Democrat who disagrees with Mamdani a lot. I'd love to know what some of these -- some of our Democratic friends think because he will be.

COATES: Renee (ph), what do you think?

UNKNOWN: Yeah, I -- so, I have always been liberal on social issues, and I would say more moderate on fiscal. I have to admit, I -- I worry about what he's going to do moving forward because I've seen some of the things even -- I live in the state of California, and I voted for things like helping the homeless.

[23:50:01]

And then we went and spent, you know, $20 billion of taxpayer dollars on it and just didn't have the impact. I voted for the changes we made on, you know, petty crimes, but then it took us 10 years to course correct after crime was going up and small businesses were leaving the state.

COATES: Hmm.

UNKNOWN: So, I -- I do worry. I actually think we need more moderation. And, you know, to your first point, I think the Democrats have a lot of passion and a lot of good intent. It's the how that they're going to go about it I'm not hearing. Other than, you know, taxing billionaires, I'm just not hearing a lot of the how behind it.

COATES: Stacey (ph), you agree? Oh, I see you, Candy (ph). I'll go to you in a second, Candy (ph). Stacey (ph), what was your thought?

UNKNOWN: Well, you -- you mentioned something about Mamdani being, you know, maybe lead for the party. I don't think that we're there. We've had progressive voices certainly with AOC and with Bernie Sanders, right? And I don't think that we're there yet.

But I think that, and Bernie Sanders has said this, when we have conversations about more progressive policies, we do tend to continue to move towards those things. And I think those are -- I think that's a good direction for the U.S., and I think that's a good direction for the Democrats.

I think, you know, possibly, Gavin Newsom could be -- maybe -- you know, I think he is maybe taking that role, as a lead, and maybe listening to Kamala Harris's recent memoir. Maybe she could be the new lead for the party or the continuing lead for the party. But I don't think it's Mamdani at this point.

COATES: Joe, you're hearing a variety of concerns and priorities. What's your take here?

WALSH: My take is that the party, Laura, doesn't quite know where it's at yet. I think Democratic voters are leading this parade and the party is trying to catch up. And that's why it's so cool to hear these voices.

COATES: I want another show of hands here. How many of you would like to see someone replace Senator Chuck Schumer as the party's leader in the Senate? I see that Joe has both of his hands raised. Anyone out there?

(LAUGHTER)

Oh, nearly all of you, in fact. Allan (ph), you say no. Why?

UNKNOWN: I -- I kind of agree with Stacey's (ph) point that we're not quite there yet. And I feel like the Republican Party is more than happy to govern the half of the United States that's their half. And Democrats don't. Democrats want to govern for everyone in the United States.

COATES: Hmm.

UNKNOWN: And I would prefer that tack. I'm a liberal. I am definitely leaning towards progressive. But even I disagree sometimes with my progressive friends when I feel sometimes they might be going a little bit too far because there are still half of the United States that wholly disagree with their ideas. And that doesn't necessarily mean that either side is right or wrong. But I do believe in progressive change. I do believe in changing things to a liberal bent. But I don't think that a wholly progressive platform is the way for the Democrats to go right now.

COATES: Joe --

WALSH: I agree with all of that. But Schumer got to go. I just think -- I think we need new blood. And I hear that from Democratic voters when I'm out there.

COATES: New blood.

WALSH: New blood.

COATES: Even if it's someone less experienced?

WALSH: Even if it's someone less experienced.

COATES: Thank you so much. Really important to hear from our audience. And also, thank you, Joe.

WALSH: This is great, Laura. Thanks, guys.

COATES: And if you want to be part of our next audience, just go to cnn.com/asklaura. Type in your name and contact information so that our team can reach out to you. Again, that's cnn.com/asklaura. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:55:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COATES: Before we go tonight, an intimate look into the extraordinary political career and life of New Zealand's former prime minister, Jacinda Ardern, in the new CNN film, "Prime Minister." Here's a preview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JACINDA ARDERN, FORMER PRIME MINISTER OF NEW ZEALAND (voice-over): You'll be our future decisionmakers and leaders. And it must be quite daunting looking out at the challenges that are in front of us. There's so much change that we want the world to be simple again. And part of that oversimplification is that we're much more inclined to look at one another in binary ways.

ARDERN: Good, evil, bad, right. It's meant that we've got a hyper- partisanship now that I think can be really damaging. It means we don't work together as much. It means we don't listen and engage in respectful debate that we need. And if we are to get back to doing all of those things, because we won't solve the climate crisis unless we do, we won't solve the conflict in the Middle East unless we do, we have to rehumanize one another again. (END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Be sure to tune in. "Prime Minister" premieres Sunday, 9 p.m. Eastern and Pacific, only on CNN.

[00:00:01]

Hey, thank you so much for watching. "The Story Is with Elex Michaelson" starts right now.