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Laura Coates Live

Trump Orders New Epstein Investigation; Trump Cuts Ties With Marjorie Taylor Greene; Trump Lowers Tariffs as Economic Pressure Builds; 2020 Georgia Election Case Comes Back To Life. Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired November 14, 2025 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[23:00:00]

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SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: Do you all remember people banging on pots and clapping for people here in New York as they were going to the hospitals, the nurses, the doctors, the EMTs, the people that were taking care of us. And over time, it turned into this real meanness. And we are seeing it in our politics and the people that we put into power. We put them into power, right? So, we have some responsibility for that as well where there was a certain amount of cruelty and meanness that has been kind of meted out in the way that I don't -- we haven't seen in a really long time.

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KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Thank you so much for watching "NewsNight." "Laura Coates Live" starts right now.

LAURA COATES, CNN HOST: Tonight, deny and deflect. The president buys himself some more time as he orders a new Epstein investigation into everyone but himself, of course. Michael Cohen is standing by with his insight into what the president is trying to do. Plus, Trump turns on Marjorie Taylor Greene, dropping his support altogether in a feud that could put MAGA in a political bind. And Georgia, her own state, is on his mind. The president now stunned to find out that the zombie election case against him went alive and well. Tonight on "Laura Coates Live."

Tonight, the president has finally apparently realized the Jeffrey Epstein scandal is not going anywhere. It's not the dead issue he declared it to be despite everything he has tried so far. The failed effort to release the grand jury transcripts, the interview with Ghislaine Maxwell, the denial of the birthday letter to Jeffrey Epstein, if anything, it's added to the record.

It has also made it all worse. It has fueled many more questions. It's now the president appears to have conjured up a way to stall any release of the files. How? By ordering a new Epstein investigation, one that conveniently does not involve him at all.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: What I think you should do, if you're going to do it, then you have to go into Epstein's friends. This Reid Hoffman spent a lot of time on the island. I -- I was never on this island. Bill Clinton went there supposedly 28 times. You're going to have to look into his friends.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: The timing is not a coincidence. Trump is just days away from a vote in the House to release the files, a vote that has taken on new urgency ever since Jeffrey Epstein's emails surfaced, emails that appear to question what Trump may have known about Epstein's girls AKA crimes, particularly the one Epstein wrote in 2019 referencing Mar-a- Lago. Quote -- "Trump asked me to resign, never be a member ever. Of course, he knew about the girls as he asked Ghislaine to stop."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN (voice-over): What did Jeffrey Epstein mean in his emails where he said you knew about the girls?

TRUMP: I know nothing about that. They would have announced that a long time ago. It's really what did he mean when he spent all the time with Bill Clinton, with the president of Harvard who you know, that is Summers, Larry Summers, whatever his name is, and all of the other people that he spent time with. Jeffrey Epstein and I had a very bad relationship for many years. But he also saw a strength because I was president. So, he dictated a couple of memos to himself. Give me a break.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Bill Clinton, Larry Summers, Reid Hoffman, JPMorgan Chase, many others, all people and institutions that Trump ordered to be investigated via a Truth Social post.

Now, wait a minute. Something is ringing a bell. Didn't the FBI tell the country in July that they had reviewed all their files and the case was closed? Quote -- "We did not uncover evidence that could predicate an investigation against any or against uncharged third parties." Case closed.

So, Trump is now predicating a new investigation based on these new Jeffrey Epstein emails the FBI never had. But if being mentioned in those emails is the predicate, well, how come anyone gets a pass if they've been mentioned, including himself, whose name appears in those emails more than the others? No direct implication of a crime. But the mentions there, is that the predicate? And as the White House told us, just being in the emails doesn't mean anything.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Uh, these emails prove absolutely nothing other than the fact that President Trump did nothing wrong.

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COATES: Look, I don't think I have to tell you this, but we know that none of these is normal, right?

[23:04:57]

Presidents don't just order the DOJ to open up criminal cases, not publicly and, hopefully, never privately. And never if you actually want people to believe in the independent objectivity of prosecutors who announce one thing after we have stated our names, on behalf of the people, not the president, on behalf of the people of the United States. And especially not when the president himself is facing any questions about his role in a case or mention in it.

And we have -- and there's an interesting wrinkle to all of this. The person assigned to lead this investigation is the U.S. attorney in the Southern District of New York. His name is Jay Clayton. And that is the same district, yes, that charged Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell. But Jay Clayton is also the same man who allegedly did nothing to stop the firing of the prosecutor who convicted Ghislaine Maxwell. She's right there, Maurene Comey. And according to her lawsuit, Comey asked why she was fired, to which Jay Clayton responded -- quote -- "All I can say is it came from Washington. I can't tell you anything else."

So, Trump has a loyal U.S. attorney in charge of these investigations. And, by the way, those U.S. attorneys serve at the pleasure of the president because they are political appointees. That's absolutely true. The line prosecutors, they serve as career officials. But it could take weeks. It could take months. Who knows about all of the investigation? And by dragging it out, it could give the DOJ a new excuse as to why they can't release the files. This is called a delay tactic if you are leaning in. Does that sound familiar?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: When the audit is complete, I'll release my returns. I have no problem with it. It doesn't matter.

I'm under audit. When you're under audit, you don't do it.

I would love to give them, but I'm not going to do it while I'm under audit. It's very simple.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: But it's not simple at all. If there's anyone who knows the complexity of President Trump's crisis playbook, it's Michael Cohen. He used to implement it, you may have written a couple chapters, working for over a decade as Trump's lawyer and personal fixer. Michael Cohen joins me now. You can follow him on Substack. He's also the host of the "Mea Culpa" podcast as well.

Michael, I am curious as to what you think President Trump's end game is in ordering this investigation. I mean, is it a distraction? Is it a deflection? Is it a due diligence? What is it? MICHAEL COHEN, FORMER DONALD TRUMP'S ATTORNEY: Yeah. So, let me say this, that both Trump and Pam Bondi, they're out there bragging that they've got some, you know, this new special prosecutor who's ready to go after Democrats whose names appeared in several Epstein emails. Meanwhile, while the MAGA base is eating it up like it's justice in action, it's not, it's about vengeance.

Now, Bondi, remember, who once took Trump's checks and magically lost her interest in Trump, you and other cases, she's now the face of this alleged nonpartisan integrity. Sure. But meanwhile, here's the real issue. If Epstein's network is finally being exposed, then my feeling is you investigate everyone.

COATES: Uh-hmm.

COHEN: Blue, red, rich, powerful, everyone. But don't make us look foolish and pretend that, I don't know what, Trump suddenly found some moral compass. You see, this is nothing shy of selective prosecution that's disguised as accountability. And the crazy thing is that the louder that they shout about the Democrats, the more that what they're trying to do is to distract us from the names that they hope that we never look for.

COATES: Well, you know, the president is defending ordering the investigation. By the way, even saying ordering the investigation sounds on, but he's defending it. Listen.

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TRUMP: I'm the chief law enforcement officer of the country. Not that I want to use that, but I am considered the chief law enforcement agent in the country, and I'm -- I'm allowed to do it. I don't want to do it. I'm not doing it. I have nothing to do with (INAUDIBLE) that came through Pam Bondi, from the DOJ.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: He has given himself a whole slew of titles just now, and then says that he has nothing to do with the new probe. I mean, this is not the first time we've seen him ordering something even in a public fashion.

COHEN: No, but isn't it really interesting, Laura? Isn't it really interesting? The fact that every single name that appeared on his Truth Social post happens to be somebody that they're just magically now investigating? You see, that's the problem. It's -- it's more than just Trump here.

[23:10:00]

The problem are the enablers, the sycophants, these fools that he is now surrounded himself by. Whatever it is that Trump says, whether it's in a Truth Social post or a casual conversation, they all sit there like, oh my God, yes, Mr. President, you're right. You can do whatever you want. Sure. You want to go after Reid Hoffman? Let's do it. You want to go after Bill Clinton? Damn straight. You want to go after Barack Obama, JPMorgan? You want to go after God? Sure, knock yourself out. Sir, you can do anything. That's the problem. There's nobody pulling him back and saying, this is not, one, normal behavior, and two, it's not appropriate.

COATES: Well, even -- how about the -- I'm going to add one more word here, though. Advantageous. And let me -- I'll be the cynic in this conversation for the moment and talk about this. We are kindred spirits in that particular sense. But a source is telling CNN --

COHEN: Uh-hmm.

COATES: -- that an ally in Capitol Hill is essentially arguing the points you've raised, telling Trump that it was bad advice to downplay and delay the Epstein situation. And also, of course, the idea of by kicking the proverbial can down the road, he cut his foot.

COHEN: Yeah. I mean, look, that's, you know -- hey, Captain Obvious, you know, it's short. And now that we've seen what? 23,000 emails, I'm about 6,000 through them --

COATES: Uh-hmm.

COHEN: -- you know, I'm not going to turn around and say that any of those emails gives me, um, the warm and fuzzy feeling that a crime was actually committed by Trump. What it does do is it absolutely negates comments that he made about knowing Epstein, how long their friendship continued, whether or not he was or was not in Epstein's house. No matter how you want to describe it, the whole -- the whole series of emails from a multitude of people are really creepy. They're disgusting. They're inappropriate, to say the least.

COATES: You know, I sitting here today can't possibly trust Ghislaine Maxwell's words. I sitting here today couldn't possibly trust the words of, say, Jeffrey Epstein. I don't have any credibility that I assign to people who have been -- who have been convicted of the crimes that they have been convicted of.

But there are questions about Epstein's emails and Ghislaine Maxwell in terms of that interaction and interview with the attorney general, Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche. When you heard the audio of the interview, we talked about the emails, but when you heard the audio of the interview, did it remind you of a task that you may have been assigned when you were Trump's lawyer and fixer?

COHEN: Well, I could certainly see him directing Todd Blanche to go to meet with her to extract information from her. Of course, Todd then extracted the information that he wanted, that she had never known Donald to be involved with any underage girl, that he was never involved in any sort of inappropriate sexual behavior. Great.

The part that I find the most reprehensible and, again, because I went through the system, is the treatment that she's now getting at this prison in Texas, this low security, this satellite camp, like I was at. Nobody brought me food to my cubicle. In fact, the first three days after my unconstitutional remand, I was deprived of food for three full days. Nobody gave me a dog, an emotional support dog. Rather, I'll tell you what else they didn't give me, a pillow, right? They didn't give me a change of clothes.

So, the treatment that she's getting is probably more in line with treatment I should have probably gotten, and the despicable treatment that I received from the correctional officers at my institution is what she should be right now experiencing, not the other way around.

COATES: And yet whatever she has told Todd Blanche, whatever agreement was made to get her transferred in any way, we don't have insight into, which is shocking to me, given her convictions. But we can also report tonight, Michael --

COHEN: But is it really shocking that --

COATES: Well, I'm --

COHEN: -- based on this administration? I don't think so.

COATES: You are right to say that none of us are easily shocked any longer. And yet I will report to you tonight that Epstein texted, apparently, we can report, Epstein texted Democratic Congresswoman Stacey Plaskett during your House Oversight Committee hearing in early 2019. Her staff confirmed that --

COHEN: Yup.

COATES: -- and went on to say, as a former prosecutor, she welcomes information that helps her get at the truth and took on the GOP that was trying to bury the truth."

[23:15:05]

Why do you think Epstein --

(CROSSTALK)

COHEN: -- question.

COATES: Well, let me ask you mine. Why do you think Epstein --

COHEN: Yeah, I got a real --

COATES: Well, hold on. Answer mine first. Why do you think Epstein was so invested?

COHEN: Yeah. He wanted to get at Trump. There's no doubt he had --

COATES: But why?

COHEN: -- a real animus towards him. Um, because Donald Trump allegedly stole the property, the one that was ultimately sold for 95 million that Jeffrey Epstein wanted to buy on South Ocean there in Palm Beach, Florida.

But the real question, I think, that is being missed here and one I would love for Stacey Plaskett to give me a call and explain, why don't you explain to me why you're texting with Jeffrey Epstein anyway?

In fact, Jeffrey Epstein at that time had already been charged as being a pedophile, as running a sex trafficking ring, and you're in the process of texting with him during my live House Oversight Committee hearing? Seriously? Why? Because his house there on Little James Island is within your constituency? That maybe what? He was filling your offers so you're willing to trade dollars for morality? I just want to know why she is in communication.

As a woman forgetting about even as a member of Congress, we see there's a whole bunch of perverts there, too, but as a woman, knowing that this guy was the worst sex trafficker of underage girls, of children, you're texting with the leader of this when he's already been charged and awaiting an indictment? Shame on Stacey Plaskett. By the way, she owes an explanation and not the B.S. explanation that her office and her staff gave.

COATES: Well, I invite her to explain. I'll also say, as a woman and former prosecutor myself, sometimes, the journey to the truth requires you to walk through the depths of hell, and you meet devils along the way. Michael Cohen, thank you so much for joining.

COHEN: She certainly met him that time.

COATES: We'll see. Thank you. Up next, no hiding. The powerful message from Jeffrey Epstein's survivors as they issue a new demand over the Epstein files. Could it sway any holdouts in Congress? Plus, the breakup no one or maybe everyone saw coming. President Trump and Marjorie Taylor Greene lashing out at each other late tonight in a bitter MAGA on MAGA feud.

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[23:20:00]

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COATES: Remember this powerful moment when survivors of Jeffrey Epstein gathered in front of the United States Capitol to demand the release of the files? In just a few days, those survivors will gather once again to make their plea once again to lawmakers ahead of a very key vote in the House.

And tonight, just a small preview of what they plan to say. More than 20 Epstein survivors signed a letter addressed to members of Congress. As a part of it, they write -- quote -- "Imagine if you yourself were a survivor. What would you want for them? What would you want for yourself? When you vote, we will remember your decision at the ballot box."

Joining me now is James Marsh, an attorney representing survivors of Jeffrey Epstein, including Maria and Annie Farmer. James, it's good to see you again, but my goodness, the fact that we are still here and yet to see all these files, for some, is totally unforgivable. And I know that you are aware that the president is now ordering an investigation into seemingly everyone but himself. Do you welcome that as well?

JAMES MARSH, ATTORNEY REPRESENTING ACCUSERS OF JEFFREY EPSTEIN: Look, I've been looking at this coverage very closely, spent a couple hours tonight just going through everything. There's so much material here and so much happening so quickly. I think what strikes me is two things. Number one, I think the victims and survivors of this crime are finally feeling empowered with the shift in tone, not only in the United States Congress, but all over the country, demanding what they've been asking for years and in some case decades, accountability and transparency.

So, I really welcome this letter and this newly, you know, reinvigorated movement to get to the truth here. But I'm also struck by what I see as mostly Democrats being exposed in these emails. And you have to wonder, given the doubling down on keeping these government records from public view, what exactly is in there? I think we're -- you know, at first, we've never been partisan on this issue, but at this point in time, most of this stuff is about Democrats. This investigation is about Democrats, and yet the files are still being kept in the dark. You really have to wonder.

COATES: Many do wonder. And I think you and I have been clear that no cover should be given to anyone who has committed the crimes that have been described by these survivors. Politics completely out the window. But I wonder --

MARSH: Absolutely.

COATES: -- based on this new investigation, are you worried that it might delay the release of additional files?

MARSH: You know, I'd like to think they were strategic enough to realize that starting yet another and, you know, bogus investigation is going to delay the release for the files, maybe technically illegal, technically, you are a prosecutor, but it's not going to delay the release of the files for the American people or for the victims and survivors. So, this at most, I think, is a sideshow, whatever delay they think it's going to accomplish.

[23:25:00]

I mean, we saw what the delay has gotten. The delay has gotten the committee looking at all corners across the universe for every file related to Jeffrey Epstein, and that certainly hasn't helped the case of keeping what's in the government records, you know, confidential.

So, whatever this sideshow that's about to take place and these investigations of Clinton and people from decades ago and decades and decades, people that Jeffrey Epstein even acknowledges were not even part of it, I think at most, it kicks the can down the road and delays it for another day, but it's certainly not going to quiet the voices and it's certainly not going to quiet my clients and the other victims and survivors.

COATES: President Trump was not quiet today on Air Force One when he was asked yet again whether he would consider pardoning Ghislaine Maxwell. He did not rule it out while he was aboard Air Force One. Your clients are going to have the chance to speak directly to the president, to lawmakers the next couple of days. What will their message be?

MARSH: I think -- I think any notion of a pardon or a commutation, I mean, that to me is a third rail for so many people. I can't imagine that happening. I mean, I guess I can imagine it happening given all that has happened. But the sense of outrage, betrayal -- and this is a convicted sex offender. You know, bad enough that she's in a low- security facility with puppy dogs and, you know, beignets. But, you know, this -- I hate to say it's unimaginable. But I guess in this day and age, anything is unimaginable. So, yeah, that is -- that is a non- starter. I would imagine even trading her for the files is a non- starter. I mean, both of these things need to be brought to -- brought to justice.

COATES: James Marsh, we'll talk again. Thank you.

MARSH. Great. Thank you for your coverage and hang in there. I'm sure we'll see each other on another Friday night very soon.

(LAUGHTER)

COATES: You just jinxed us all, but I think you're right. Thank you.

MARSH: That's right. Thank you.

COATES: Next, the president publicly dumping Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene from his political friendship on Truth Social and a MAGA divorce that could get very, very messy. You know what they say about divorces. Who gets the friends? Who gets the voters? Plus, Trump says prices are down and it's a hoax to think otherwise. So why then is the president reversing some of his beloved tariffs? We'll debate it next.

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[23:30:00]

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TRUMP: More than anything else, it's a con job by the Democrats.

LAURA INGRAHAM, FOX NEWS HOST: And why are people saying they're anxious about the economy? Why are they saying that?

TRUMP: I don't know that they are saying it. I think polls are fake. We have the greatest economy we've ever had.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: What a difference a week makes, because that was President Trump on Monday defending his economic plan and his tariffs. Today, it was a 180, removing some of the tariffs on coffee, on meat, on fruits, and other agricultural products. But don't call it a rollback. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Mr. President, you've said that tariffs do not increase prices for consumers. But now you're lowering tariffs.

TRUMP: I say they may, in some cases. But to a large extent, they've been borne by other countries.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: But again, what he's saying now about higher prices is a far cry from what he had been saying about tariffs for months.

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TRUMP: Tariffs are the most misunderstood thing maybe in any form of business, anywhere in business. Oftentimes, the country picks them up. Oftentimes, the company picks it up. The people don't pick it up.

They might be paying something. But when you take the overall impact, the Americans are gaining tremendously.

And I really think we were helped a lot by the tariff situation that's going on, which is a good situation, not a bad. It's great. It's going to be legendary. You watch legendary in a positive way, I have to say.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: I want to bring in my political insiders. I'm going to call them legendary tonight. CNN political commentator and Republican strategist Brad Todd. Also, a former senior advisor to President Biden, John McCarthy. Good to have both of you here. I mean, we talked a lot about tariffs, Brad. Did the president just blink on them?

BRAD TODD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, I think he's aligning his tariff policy with what they expect the Supreme Court decision to be. The Supreme Court is evaluating whether his tariffs can be invoked under the Emergency Act of regulating imports and exports. Most of what you see that the tariffs are changing today are food products that we don't grow enough of in the United States or maybe not at all, bananas and coffee and that sort of thing. Coffee's price actually already had come down some. This will bring it down a little bit more.

COATES: Wait. You think it's that he wants the Supreme Court's case to be almost moot by removing it or that --

TODD: Well --

COATES: -- the fact that these prices are high?

TODD: I suspect they're foreseeing maybe that they're going to get a split decision, right? That the court is going to allow them to use some emergency authority and not others. And so, they're tapering their policy in advance of that. That's just my suspicion. COATES: You think he is scared about that Supreme Court decision or is he acknowledging that really -- I mean, the American public is bearing the cost of these tariffs. It's not just someone else will pay.

JOHN MCCARTHY, FORMER SENIOR ADVISER FOR POLITICAL ENGAGEMENT TO PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: Yeah. I mean, I don't think you can ignore the politics on this, right? I mean, this is just coming off the back of an election that the president's party did not do very well in. And when the president first ran for office, he talked about, you know, the need to bring down costs. And that's what voters gave him a mandate on. So, the president who ran on that message is now having a cost problem of his own.

In the elections in New Jersey and Virginia, we saw voters send a message that they think the costs are too high and the Republican Party isn't doing something about it. I think that's why you're starting to see even further breaks inside of the president's coalition, both in Congress and inside his, you know, broader political movement.

COATES: And, you know, we have a thing on the show. We invite the audience to be a part of it.

[23:34:57]

And we had about eight Democrat or Democratic-leaning voters on in the week to ask whether they thought Democrats had an effective message on affordability, on the economy. Watch what happened.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: But I want to have a show of hands. Who thinks Democrats have been articulating a strong plan to make life more affordable?

JOE WALSH, PODCAST HOST, FORMER ILLINOIS REPRESENTATIVE: Hmm.

COATES: Oh, yikes!

(LAUGHTER)

I don't see any hands there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: That's called crickets, essentially. There was no hand that raised. Um, how do you convince voters that the Democrats can do any better than the Republicans on that?

MCCARTHY: Yeah. Well, Democrats do have a brand problem. I think that that's something that has been well litigated. But these candidates have actually given us a good path forward. They've run local races and talked about things that matter to the voters there.

You know, I'm from New Jersey, so I always like to talk about Jersey. But I will say, you know, Governor-elect Sherrill there, and it sounds great to say Governor-elect Sherrill, you know, talked about the need to kind of implement right away an issue to freeze utility costs. That was something that was really on the minds of those voters. That's not something you're going to see the National Party do. You're going to see individual leaders in states make these kind of new policy suggestions, and that's going to turn the page for Democrats.

COATES: Speaking about states, I want to talk about Georgia, because Marjorie Taylor Greene and President Trump are certainly at odds. Um, what's going to be the consequence in terms of Republican voters and MAGA more broadly when they see this tension of two people who used to be linked arm in arm?

TODD: Well, Marjorie Taylor Greene is a pretty terrible teammate. She has been a terrible teammate for Mike Johnson for a while. She was a terrible teammate for her fellow House Republicans, even under Kevin McCarthy. It's just something she's not very good at. She likes --

COATES: Bad teammate or bad 'yes' woman?

TODD: She likes the tension on herself, even if she has to change her views or change her position to get it. And -- and she thinks internal strife and attacking other Republicans is the key to her success. So, she's going to do that no matter what. And I think the president is just tired of it. And I think he's probably right to be tired of it.

COATES: He talked about he's pulling his endorsement of her. And he says, "All I see 'wacky' Marjorie do is complain, complain, complain," adding, if someone primaries her -- quote -- "They will have my complete and unyielding support." She then responded, saying that she has defended Trump in the Epstein scandal and adds -- quote -- "He's coming after me hard to make an example to scare all the other Republicans against voting to release the files."

So, what do think Trump is more upset about, this bad teammate notion that he's talking about or these files? You can both address that.

MCCARTHY: Yeah. Go ahead.

TODD: I think the whole time during the shutdown, she was trying to undermine the Republican position. And we have a three-seat majority. You've got to air your complaints inside the Republican conference, and then support the speaker when you get on the floor. She doesn't do that. I don't know if she's going to have a primary opponent or not. President Trump said tonight if she gets a good one, he'll support in the primary. He doesn't lose those very often. North Georgia is a place where he's probably more popular than anywhere.

MCCARTHY: If you look at the president statement, I mean, this is not a statement from a position of strength. It is kind of funny that he says that, you know, she comes across as a ranting lunatic. I mean, the statement itself would, you know, not suggest a lot of confidence from the president at the moment.

But I agree with you that this really does come down to the Congress. And I think that the president is certainly aware that members of Congress are coming back on Monday. And I'm a Capitol Hill guy, and I will say, these things always have a rhythm, right? And you wait for pressure to build. And I think that's what we've seen in the last couple weeks. And you look for a leader to make a movement, and then you see a mass defect. I mean, that's how these things tend to go. I think that Marjorie Taylor Greene --

COATES: Who is the leader that will make that?

MCCARTHY: Marjorie Taylor Greene has taken this stance. And I think, you know, when this vote comes up next week, you're to see a kind of mass defect from Republicans that I think will be interesting.

TODD: I think you're right, John. I think a lot of Republicans are going to vote for the bill when the discharge petition was put on the floor. I mean, it could be 50, it could be 100. It wouldn't surprise me if it's 100. So, it'll be a lot. But I don't think Marjorie Taylor Greene is going to be leading that. I don't think she can lead a large group of anything. I think she's much more comfortable when she's a lone wolf.

MCCARTHY: But I think she did make the first move here, and that is something that is important, because the speaker has been trying to toe the line here and kind of look to the president for leadership. And in a normal time, we are dealing with a lame duck president, and we are looking for new leaders inside of the Republican Party. And I think that's why you're starting to see this type of division start to exists in a place that is, you know, always looking for their own political ambition, the House of Representatives.

COATES: Well, how will voters view the fact that, to your point earlier as well, you know, publicly stand by your man when it's the House Speaker, but privately have your issues? The voters want to see people with spines in front of the camera as well.

TODD: Marjorie Taylor Greene is a flea on a dog in this case. I mean, she is -- she is an outlier. Republican primary voters outside of Rome, Georgia don't -- don't put her in a leadership category. I think they care about what the president thinks. I think they care about what Mike Johnson thinks. And I think Marjorie Taylor Greene is going to have to decide she's going to work inside the Republican conference instead of outside it.

COATES: Well, she has said she works on behalf of the American people. We'll see who's right in the end. Thank you both. Up next, it's the Trump 2020 criminal case that just won't quit, the one out of Fulton County, Georgia that gave us the infamous mugshot. Well, a brand-new prosecutor is now taking over for Fani Willis, and he's got a big decision to make, keep it going or let it die, next.

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[23:40:00]

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COATES: The lone criminal case that still remains against President Trump is off life support and apparently back in the court. That's the one in Georgia where Trump and more than a dozen other of his allies are accused of trying to overturn the 2020 election results. You'll remember it was stalled at Trump's 2024 win and disqualification of Fulton County D.A. Fani Willis.

[23:45:00]

Well, today, the case got a new prosecutor, Peter Skandalakis, head of a bipartisan group of DAs and state lawyers in Georgia. It's a move that apparently caught President Trump by surprise.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Apparently, they're continuing with the investigation into you and your allies related you the 2020 election. Not tracking that?

TRUMP: You mean, the Fani Willis case?

UNKNOWN (voice-over): I think so.

TRUMP: I can't imagine. I thought that case was over. I wish that case was totally over.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: My next guest knows the in and out of this case and the new prosecutor leading it, Gwen Keyes, a former district attorney in DeKalb County in Georgia, and has known Skandalakis for 30 years. Also, here, Michael Isikoff, longtime investigative journalist and author of the book, "Find Me the Votes," detailing Trump's attempt to overturn the results in Georgia.

I'll begin with you, Gwen, because this is another prosecutor the American public have to understand or know and get to know. You already do. You've known that person for what? Thirty years. What do think his approach will be? It will be different than Fani Willis?

GWEN KEYES, FORMER DEKALB COUNTY D.A.: Well, I think every prosecutor is going to take the opportunity if they were in this position to give a fresh look at the evidence, and I would expect nothing less from Pete.

Like you said, I've known him for almost 30 years. It's hard to believe, but I started my career engaging with him. I almost worked with him at one point in time. He is very well respected, very knowledgeable.

And again, I want everybody to realize that every prosecutor in Georgia takes a note indicating that they will faithfully adhere to and follow the evidence in their case without fear, favor or affection, and I would expect nothing less from Pete.

COATES: Well, of all those lawyers, he says he couldn't find another prosecutor in the Prosecuting Attorneys' Council of Georgia to take on the case. Does that tell you anything about the merits or perhaps the anticipated backlash? KEYES: Not at all. I think it's important for folks to realize that the Fulton County District Attorney's Office is the largest district attorney's office in the state with the most resources, with the highest number of prosecutors, and even they were stretched, as I understand it, in terms of the amount of resources to be dedicated to this file.

So, imagine if they were in the position of struggling to -- not struggling, but if they were in the position to make sure that they had the right resources than every smaller prosecutor's office would be in that same place.

So, I'm not at all surprised. Very often, either the prosecuted -- Prosecuting Attorneys' Council or the attorney general's office has appointed special prosecutors or replacement prosecutors. So that is not unusual. I think this just may be one of the highest profile matters in which it happened.

COATES: High profile indeed. Michael, I mean, you've written a book about this case, and all the defendants in this case, as you know, received pardons from the president of the United States, who can only pardon people for federal crimes. They can still be prosecuted for state crimes, and we know that is indeed happening. But those pardons are likely an attempt to also send a message to prosecutors.

MICHAEL ISIKOFF, AUTHOR, INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST: Sure. Look, first of all, I didn't see this coming. I don't think very many people did. I think we all assumed, like Trump did, that the case was dead once Fani Willis got removed. So, it is -- it is -- it is pretty surprising.

COATES: Well, why did you think it would be gone?

ISIKOFF: Because I didn't think that any Georgia prosecutor, including Mr. Skandalakis, was going to take it on and face the backlash that will inevitably happen. And also, look, a couple things. One is I always thought this was, as was presented in the original indictment, the strongest case against President Trump for his actions in 2020. It was a racketeering conspiracy case. You know, its centerpiece was the president's own voice to Brad Raffensperger, just find me the 11,000 votes. You have that.

You had real life victims, Ruby Freeman and Shaye Moss, who were hard feathered smeared by Trump's agents, Rudy Giuliani and others, accused of all sorts of crimes that they didn't commit. And you had the fake elector scheme, which was all came from Trump campaign, people at the top, to Georgia and other states. So, it was, I think, a strong case. But, at this point, you got the -- you got the Supreme Court immunity --

COATES: Which means President Trump is not going to be prosecuted for this.

ISIKOFF: Well, he couldn't be prosecuted while he's president anyway.

COATES: Right. ISIKOFF: That's longstanding policy.

COATES: Right.

ISIKOFF: But even after he leaves office, you know, if every step that the president took is going to have to be litigated and most likely is going to go up to the Supreme Court --

[23:50:02]

When he was talking to Raffensperger, was he talking to him as president or as, you know, a candidate running for reelection? If it's the former, then, you know, it's -- he's presumptively immune. If it's the latter, then, you know, he can be charged. But all that is going to have to be litigated. It's going to be extensive. I think that it's going to be a long time before we actually see anything coming from this decision.

COATES: Gwen, let me ask you quickly. You said fresh eyes when it came to Skandalakis. There is also a possibility that this might not proceed in the way that Fani Willis, former prosecutor, was on this case, wanted to deal with it. That's a possibility here as well, right?

KEYES: That is a possibility. But again, as many of us have looked at the evidence, it's difficult to see how this case can just go away when you already have four defendants that have entered guilty pleas. All of them have indicated that they will testify against co- defendants in the RICO charge --

COATES: Hmm.

KEYES: -- on the record for every plea. The prosecutor laid out their role, that defendant's role in the conspiracy, as well as tying evidence to other named defendants. So, it'll be a little hard, I believe, for any prosecutor, given all of that evidence, to be able to turn a blind eye to what the evidence presents that we'll have to see.

COATES: Time for us all to reread Michael's book. Thank you both. Voting is underway for the 2025 CNN Hero of the Year, so we are reintroducing each of our top five heroes. Here's Hillary Cohen, the assistant director working with Hollywood to feed people in need. Go to cnn.com/heroes right now to cast your vote.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HILLARY COHEN, CNN HERO: Working on a film set, it's this whole team of people, a prop department, a classroom department, an electric department, and a lot of people that need to be fed.

There's just so much food that's available, steak and salads. So much good food every day. When lunch was over, they would just throw it out. It doesn't make any sense. It really was always told we can't donate the food. It's too hard. If someone gets sick, it's liability.

COHEN (voice-over): As an assistant director, I was the logistical planner of a set. This is just the logistical problem. I think it's so easy to solve.

Every Day Action picks food up from film sets, corporate events, grocery stores to deliver the food to those in need.

UNKNOWN: Nice to meet you.

COHEN (voice-over): We're the Grub Hub. We take it from point A to point B. At the beginning, it was just me and Sam, one of my co- assistant directors in the heart of COVID. We have this big cooler from Walmart, thermal bags, just picking the food up. I always like to see what the fancy meal is of the day. Someone in TV (ph) said that's like our bread and butter. All you have to do is give us the call sheet, sign liability over, and the food size.

STEPHEN FAUST, EXECUTIVE CHEF: For decades, it broke my heart to throw food away. So, we're happy to do it. It's just like clockwork. They show up.

COHEN: Hi, it's so good to see you.

FAUST: We pass off the food, and we're all set.

COHEN (voice-over): We pay production assistants and background artists, and then they drive the food from place to place.

UNKNOWN: Salads, Tuna fish.

UNKNOWN: There you go.

UNKNOWN: Thank you.

COHEN: So, it started with in-camp mans.

Would you like some free food?

Then it's food pantries, nonprofits, anyone that's struggling with food insecurities.

Here's three meals, and I'm going to get you some sides, too.

COHEN (voice-over): Giving someone that's hungry food is the best thing one can do.

UNKNOWN: Thank you so much.

UNKNOWN: Oh God bless you.

COHEN (voice-over): And that's about 80,000 meals a year that we save from landfills. I feel like my skill set is like called to do this. Now, more than ever, we have to help each other.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COATES: Well, it's almost midnight and, therefore, almost the weekend here on the East Coast. But first, let's check in with our friend, Elex Michaelson, out in Los Angeles. Elex, good to see you on this Friday night. How you doing?

ELEX MICHAELSON, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: Happy Friday.

COATES: Happy Friday, right? Well, some of Hollywood, you know this very well, Hollywood's biggest stars set to attend an audience with the Pope just a few hours from now. And some of these big names include Spike Lee and Cate Blanchett and Adam Scott and Dave Franco, just to name a few. And the Pope even revealed his four favorite movies of all time ahead of the event. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

POPE LEO XIV, SOVEREIGN OF VATICAN CITY STATE: My four favorite films: "It's A Wonderful Life" with Jimmy Stewart from 1946; "The Sound of Music" from 1965 with Julie Andrews; "Ordinary People," the year was 1980, the stars were Donald Sutherland and Mary Tyler Moore; "La Vita e Bella," 1997, Roberto Benigni.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: I think I like this Pope so much. I love Mary Tyler Moore and, of course, all the lists. They're all great ones. What do you think?

MICHAELSON: Didn't he kind of read that like an Oscar presenter?

(LAUGHTER)

It's still so weird to have an American pope, right?

COATES: It is.

MICHAELSON: To have like the Chicago accent, which then effortlessly goes into the Italian accent when he starts talking --

COATES: Yes.

MICHAELSON: -- about Roberto Benigni. But at the end of the day, a guy who grew up in America watching American films is sort of a very weird thing.

COATES: It is. I remember, somebody brought him his favorite Chicago pizza at the Piazza.

[00:00:02]

It was like the most amazing thing. Thinking, oh my God, this man is very, very real. By the way, the Vatican says the meeting is an attempt to deepen the dialogue between the church and Hollywood. He is the first American Pope. We haven't seen anything like this before, but what will we see tonight? MICHAELSON: On our show, we've got all sorts of things. But you got to stay towards the end. Metta World Peace is joining us live. The former --

COATES: Oh.

MICHAELSON: -- Laker great Ron Artest will be here. You never know what he's going to say.

COATES: Can't wait. Elex, have a great show.

MICHAELSON: Thanks.