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Laura Coates Live

FBI Probes Democrats; Report: U.S. Envoy Coached Putin Aide; Cruise Ship Homicide Mystery. Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired November 25, 2025 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[23:00:00]

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR AND SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Scott?

(LAUGHTER)

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER SPECIAL ASSISTANT TO PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH, SALEM RADIO HOST: First of all, happy birthday to Abby.

PHILLIP: Thank you.

UNKNOWN: Happy birthday, Abby.

(APPLAUSE)

JENNINGS: Second, mine is I got to travel with Thatcher today. Thatcher, where are you, buddy?

PHILLIP: Hey, Thatcher. Come over here.

JENNINGS: Come over here.

(APPLAUSE)

Thatcher is one of my -- he's 25% of my children. He's out of school today. And we travelled here from Kentucky. We came here. He has been working at CNN all day. But, anyway, best thing that happened to me today.

UNKNOWN: All right.

(APPLAUSE)

UNKNOWN: We love to see you.

PHILLIP: All right, everyone, thank you. On that note, thank you very much. thanks for watching "NewsNight." "Laura Coates Live" starts right now.

LAURA COATES, CNN HOST AND SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Tonight, the FBI and the Pentagon get involved over the video of six Democratic lawmakers telling troops to refuse illegal orders. How far is this actually going to go? Plus, the leaked transcript of a stunning call over the war in Ukraine revealing how Trump's special envoy told a top Russian official how to sell their plan directly to the president. And a Florida teen's death on a cruise ship, it has now been ruled a homicide. So, why is there still no arrest? Tonight on "Laura Coates Live."

So, if you thought the president's retribution tour began and ended at the DOJ, well, you can think again because tonight, it's clear he's got a full band behind him and multiple agencies all playing the same tune. And now, the FBI and the Pentagon are taking center stage.

Look at this memo. It was shared by Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth just earlier tonight. It's addressed to the secretary of the Navy and is calling for a review of Democratic Senator Mark Kelly and it's to be completed no later than 15 days from now, December 10th. Now, why? For -- quote -- "potentially unlawful comments," comments that come from a video that you have no doubt seen by now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. CHRIS DELUZIO (D-PA): The threats to our Constitution aren't just coming from abroad.

REP. JASON CROW (D-CO): But from right here at home.

SEN. MARK KELLY (D-AR): Our laws are clear. You can refuse illegal orders.

REP. ELISSA SLOTKIN (D-MI): You can refuse illegal orders.

DELUZIO: You must refuse illegal orders.

SLOTKIN: No one has to carry out orders that violate the law.

REP. CHRISSY HOULAHAN (D-PA): Or our Constitution.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: I mean, it's important to be crystal clear. Members of Congress, they still have the First Amendment. And nothing these six Democrats actually said is actually unlawful on its face. I mean, service members are required to follow only lawful orders. And they know that, by the way, because they're military and intelligence veterans.

But this doesn't actually stop with Senator Kelly. And it's not just the Pentagon because another critical arm of the administration is getting involved. The FBI now wants to interview all six of those lawmakers, and they've confirmed that the Bureau has, indeed, reached out to them. The six put out a statement accusing Trump of using the FBI as a tool to intimidate and harass members of Congress. They say they won't be bullied.

Now, remember, this is all happening after Trump went on a rant, accusing them of -- quote -- "SEDITIOUS BEHAVIOR" -- all caps -- "punishable by death." Now, let me repeat, this didn't get anywhere close legally to sedition. But the White House is trying to make the point very clear. They see their words as maybe intimating that there was an unlawful order that was said or as some effort to undermine the commander-in-chief.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I think what Senator Mark Kelly was actually trying to do was intimidate the 1.3 million active-duty service members.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Now, look, if the White House wants to claim that what the lawmakers said was inappropriate or an implicit criticism of the president of the United States, well, that's an argument they're free to make. That's a political criticism, not a legal one.

I want to begin with former DHS chief of staff under the first administration for Trump, Miles Taylor. Well, I will remind you, he is one of the many critics the president has ordered an investigation into. Also, here, retired U.S. Army Lieutenant General Russel Honore, known for leading multiple commands across the whole world, including the military's response to Hurricane Katrina in 2005.

Thank you both for being here. I want to begin with you here, Miles, because the administration is pulling every lever to take revenge on these six Democrats for their message to the troops. What is the end game here?

MILES TAYLOR, AUTHOR, PODCAST HOST, FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF AT DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY: Well, look, I mean, let's call it what it is. The crime they committed was telling people not to commit crimes, Laura.

[23:05:00]

I think you pointed that out very well at the beginning. So, then the question is, why are they doing this? Because it's not illegal to tell people to not do illegal things. The point is they want to keep insiders from exposing illegal activity. That's why they are doing this. They are doing this for intimidation.

You mentioned the investigative order that was placed against me. Within days of that, White House officials leaked to Rolling Stone that the reason they were doing it was to send a message, not because they thought I'm actually guilty of treason. They wanted to intimidate other whistleblowers from coming forward.

Now, the GOP said on Capitol Hill this week, well, name one thing Donald Trump has done that is illegal. I can name four things in just the past week.

Donald Trump ordered Lindsey Halligan to be the U.S. attorney in the Eastern District of Virginia. A judge in the past week found that that was illegal. He ordered troops into Washington, D.C. A judge in the past week found that that was illegal. He ordered murderous boat strikes in the Caribbean. And we just saw reporting this week, Laura, that lawyers throughout the administration thought this was illegal. And Donald Trump unilaterally deleted a number of federal agencies, which just yesterday a judge in Rhode Island found was illegal. That is just in the past week. So, you see this and you see that there is a pattern.

And, in fact, Laura, if you look at the whole administration so far, these 10 months, there have been hundreds, hundreds of decisions by judges that what the administration did was illegal and dozens of decisions that found what they did was unconstitutional.

These are the most lawless acts we've ever seen in a first year of a presidential administration in modern history. What are they trying to do? They are trying to make sure that people on the inside don't expose them. They're doing that through intimidation.

COATES: And, of course, I'll note that the administration is appealing a number of what you've just named as decisions that they feel are incorrectly decided and may, in fact, go up to Supreme Court. It will be the final arbiter of many of what you've described. We'll see how that goes.

I want to bring you in here, general. You are hopeful that officers at their release will take a stand if they are given any illegal orders. And there is precedent for this, by the way, including an incident when you led Hurricane Katrina relief efforts. Tell me about what happened, and did you face any consequences for taking a stand?

RUSSEL HONORE, RETIRED LIEUTENANT GENERAL OF U.S. ARMY, AUTHOR: No, it doesn't normally happen when you do the right thing. In this case, governor at that time on Thursday of Katrina response had done a news conference because she was getting a lot of pressure out of Washington to stop the looting. And the conservative media was beating her up every half hour, stop the looting. And we hadn't evacuated the convention center yet, Laura. And she did a news conference and said, look, we're going to stop this looting.

And I'm telling the National Guard and the police to shoot to kill. And my staff in Atlanta called me and said, hey, the governor just said shoot to kill. And I got on the phone with the governor. I said, we don't do that. That's B.S. We do not do that, governor. You don't tell your troops and your police to shoot your citizens over what's being called looting where people are going in places just to get food and water. And she backed down. She profusely backed down and said, oh, general, I shouldn't have said that. Yes, we don't do that, governor.

And that order was rescinded. And we didn't get anybody shot the next day. We did have to tell the troops to put their guns down because the word hadn't gotten down to them to, hey, we're not going to shoot people for looting.

COATES: Well, tell me, general, when you heard those -- that video from those six lawmakers, how did you assess it? Did you think that they were suggesting that there had been illegal orders or was it in your mind a reminder to follow what they already knew to be what they cannot do, which is an illegal order?

HONORE: It could be a timely message. You know, we got strikes going to Pacific and the Atlantic. We've got troops deployed all over the country. We've got president saying he will send troops into cities and to use them for law enforcement. We've got a deputy chief-of-staff who said we're going to waive posse comitatus and habeas corpus and use troops to arrest people.

But we've got a history, Laura, of illegal orders. We got My Lai. My Lai as pronounced by Lieutenant Calley, where they killed 300 civilians. They had a mission to go secure a village. And that lieutenant gave an order to men that are recorded, if you Google it, you can see their names, to shoot and kill people, and they did it. That was an illegal order that was issued by that lieutenant. And he got co-martialed for it.

We got Kent State, when we sent a National Guard in Ohio into the university to stop a protest. And the officer there on the scene gave the order to shoot to stop a protest. Live bullets. Four students killed.

[23:09:57]

As a result, four million college students went on strike and emptied the universities in America. And a couple weeks later, we lost two at Jackson State in Jackson, Mississippi. But the same thing, order to shoot to kill. We have done this in America and people have been held accountable. In Kent State, it was handled in civil court and the judge dismissed the case. It's unbelievable. So, we have done this. In Abu Ghraib, in Iraq, officers gave orders to intimidate and torture prisoners. We have witnessed this.

COATES: Yes.

HONORE: And in the recent administration, when the president told the secretary of defense and the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, well, just shoot him in the leg. And they did the right thing. They said, hell no, we don't do that.

COATES: Well, general --

HONORE: He was subsequently fired.

COATES: Yes.

HONORE: But we've got a history of illegal orders. You could go on a mission, but the people that give the order can be held accountable. And I don't think what these officers and politicians did was subject them to being traitors or being subject to be hung. That is political talk.

COATES: General, you describe many an example that are familiar to so many people. Miles, when you're hearing about this, I mean, just the litany of things he just described, it calls to mind the possible issues that could spark the president's ire. But why do think he is seizing on this particular feud with Democrats over national security?

TAYLOR: Well, look, I think it's a mistake. I think it's going to blow back on the president ultimately, politically, legally, and otherwise. I don't think this is going to be a successful pathway to go down. But this is what always happens with people who try to centralize power, is they overextend and they create more enemies than they intended. But that's a conversation for a separate time.

I think the answer is, Laura, he knows that he is breaking these boundaries. He's leaping over these guardrails. He doesn't want people to call him out for it.

Wipe away all the cobwebs around this, Laura. Even if there was no other evidence of his illegal conduct, then what I'm about to tell you, this video would have been justified, and what I'm about to tell you is, I myself witnessed at least a half dozen episodes in the first administration of him directing me or my team to do things that we had to respond were unlawful.

OK, I personally, just one guy sitting here, have heard this man issue at least a half a dozen orders, directives, ideas that were illegal. Now, we did our jobs as public servants and said, we cannot break the law for you. But if that was the only anecdote we have, the one I just told you, that would be sufficient for these six lawmakers to say, you know what, we better warn other people that this is possible.

COATES: Excuse me. I hear you. Do you see a difference if it's a civil servant versus a member of the military to whom is receiving an order from the president?

TAYLOR: Well, look, I mean, I think it's certainly more serious if it's a member of the military because I think that chain of command has got much more life and death consequences built in to what could happen.

But also, Laura, it's not just what's happening with the chain of command, the Civil Service. The White House last week reportedly is planning to issue a rule so that they can fire or potentially prosecute members of the Civil Service if they come forward and expose illegal orders. That was a Reuters report.

This is a huge deal. It's members of the military and the Civil Service that they're trying to intimidate to say, don't come forward, you could be court-martialed, you could be fired if you expose the president's illegal conduct. That should be alarming to Americans, regardless of their political affiliation.

COATES: Miles Taylor, General Russel Honore, thank you both.

HONORE: God bless America.

COATES: Yes, indeed. God bless America. Well, up next, so much for that Thanksgiving deadline for Ukraine. Trump suddenly changing his tune as he claims that Russia is making concessions. Plus, new calls to fire U.S. envoy Steve Witkoff after a report reveals he was coaching the Kremlin on how to negotiate with Trump. The White House's response is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:15:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COATES: Flatter the president. Celebrate him as a man of peace. That's what U.S. envoy Steve Witkoff told a Russian advisor in a phone call last month, a phone call in which Witkoff is essentially coaching the Russians on how to butter up Trump in order to have him be more open to their side of things. Bloomberg got their hands on the transcript. And they say that in that call, Witkoff also told the Russians, I know what it's going to take to get a peace deal done, and that's maybe a land swap somewhere.

The White House says Witkoff was just doing his job. Republican Congressman Don Bacon doesn't see it that way. He says -- quote -- "It is clear that Witkoff fully favors the Russians. He cannot be trusted to lead these negotiations. Would a Russian paid agent do less than he? He should be fired" -- unquote.

Well, that's not going to happen because instead, Trump is directing Witkoff to go meet with Putin in Moscow. And tonight, President Trump says there has been so much progress made that he's no longer giving Ukraine that Thanksgiving deadline.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I don't have a deadline. I just -- you know, the deadline for me is when it's over. And I think everybody is tired of fighting at this moment.

[23:20:01]

They're losing -- they're losing too many people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Joining me now, Democratic Congressman Mike Quigley of Illinois. He's a co-chair of the Congressional Ukraine Caucus. Congressman, welcome. What is your reaction to this report that Steve Witkoff was coaching the Russians on how to pitch Trump on the peace proposal?

REP. MIKE QUIGLEY (D-IL): Yes, nothing surprises me. And the fact that we have a narcissist president whose ego controls -- he's probably giving good advice. He's probably telling the Russians, if you want something, the best way to do that with this president is to tell him how great he is. It doesn't necessarily help solve the problem, but it's -- it's -- it's the state of the union right now.

COATES: I wonder in some respects why I even have heard or why we know about this call, specifically through Bloomberg's reporting. The fact that the call was somehow leaked strikes me as a kind of major security breach, does it not?

QUIGLEY: Well, absolutely. I have to think about this, how this came out. We've learned that our Intel Community right now isn't real keen on keeping communications secure. They talked about war plans on Signal app. So, one can only speculate what was the form of communication there and which side this was leaked from.

COATES: President Trump is saying that Russia's big concessions would be that they stop fighting and not take any more land. Now, obviously, Russia started this war. Ukraine is not going to see that as a concession. Should they?

QUIGLEY: No. As I said before, even Neville Chamberlain would blush at this. I mean, it's the equivalent of telling the Germans after they've taken Czechoslovakia and Poland -- your concession has to be, you can't take France, right? It's just absurd. This is rewarding the aggressor. This is letting whole sections of a sovereign democratic country be taken and doing absolutely nothing about it. It's embarrassing for our country.

COATES: Congressman, there are going to be people at home watching this who think that there is no way that Russia will ever agree to any deal that does not involve them getting at least some of the land that they have taken over, which is extraordinarily a bitter pill, and they'd argue but one that's worth ending the war. Do you agree with that sentiment?

QUIGLEY: Well, I think that anybody thinks that Putin will never give in. He hasn't shown a single indication of getting past his maximalist conditions here, right? At no point has he ever done that. In fact, he escalates the fighting during all of this. President Trump gave him six deadlines, which he blew through. Putin understands one thing, strength. He doesn't see it in Trump.

The only way this war ends in a successful manner for Ukraine is if the president stands up to Putin, adds an additional supplemental, ceases his assets, and goes forward with the sanctions bill that has tremendous bicameral bipartisan support.

COATES: Congressman, how do you think Putin will view this recent deadline that was supposed to be Thursday, Thanksgiving, going away?

QUIGLEY: Yes. Look, again, he has seen six other deadlines go away. He doesn't care. I think he realizes he wins a war of attrition because he has six to one manpower advantage, and he's willing to treat his troops like some sort of cannon fodder. He also recognizes no one will really do anything dramatic if he doesn't pay attention.

You know, his foreign minister just said that if these demands go past what was discussed in Alaska, there'll be a problem. Putin himself told his security council last Friday that he'd be -- quote -- "happy to continue this war until Ukraine is beaten militarily."

So, understand, Putin is a tyrant. In the end, all he wants is to take Ukraine and go beyond that. For anyone to think that he's going to be satisfied with this taking part of Eastern Ukraine and Crimea, they're mistaken and they don't understand the history of Putin.

COATES: Congressman Mike Quigley, thank you.

QUIGLEY: Thank you. COATES: Up next tonight, he first made headlines by pushing the idea of DOGE dividend checks. Now, he thinks he has what it takes to beat Trump's choice for governor in Florida. Republican James Fishback is standing by to join me on his new campaign next.

[23:25:02]

And later, a new front in the battle over Obamacare as the president just ruled out the one proposal that may have been in play.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COATES: One of the hottest races in 2026 just got a bit spicier and could reveal whether there's a growing rift in MAGA world.

[23:30:00]

I'm talking about the race for governor of Florida. With Republican Ron DeSantis being term limited, a flurry of candidates is stepping into the race. And that list now includes prominent investor and Trump supporter James Fishback, who rose to prominence earlier this year. He pitched the idea of DOGE dividend, checks that are going for President Trump and Elon Musk as a way to gain support for their government slashing efforts.

Now, Fishback wants to run all of Florida. Just one problem. Trump seems to have already found his man, Congressman Byron Donalds. Trump endorsed Donalds, if you recall, earlier this year. But Fishback is already taking a target in the congressman who was the favorite to win the Republican nomination.

And you know what? James Fishback joins me now. Welcome. Thank you for joining. You're entering a pretty crowded field and there is that endorsement already. Why do you want to get into this race?

JAMES FISHBACK, FLORIDA GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: I want to get into this race, Laura, because I want to make life more affordable for Floridians all over the state. I'm a fourth generation Floridian. I grew up in a working- class background down in South Florida. I now live in the Florida Panhandle.

I want to do two things for Floridians. I want to keep the ball rolling from Governor DeSantis. I want to keep Florida free from radical DEI, transgenderism, Soros-backed prosecutors. And on top of that, I want to make it affordable for families. I want to make it easier for them to get a great paying job, buy a home, raise a family. When it's all said and done, retire with dignity.

COATES: You know, you mentioned DEI. You've been repeatedly calling and referring to Byron Donalds as DEI Donald on social media. You know that Trump made some pretty significant gains when it came to Black male voters in Florida and elsewhere. Is that rhetoric going to make you more successful in Florida?

FISHBACK: Well, what's going to make me successful in Florida is meeting with voters where Byron Donalds won't meet them. DEI stands for didn't earn it. If he doesn't want to go out and meet with voters like I am, whether they're in Marianna or Miami, Pahokee or Pensacola, then he does not deserve to be the next governor of Florida.

Floridians deserve a choice. And I want to go out there and earn the trust of the people of my state, a state that my family has known since my great grandfather who came here and ran a small hotel in Fort Lauderdale Beach.

COATES: Obviously, I'm sure he pushed back on whether he earned it as a sitting member of Congress. Let's talk about the H-1B program because you're calling to end the H-1B visa program. It allows employers, as you know, that need specialized skills to hire foreign workers as they work toward becoming a legal resident. You have been very consistent about believing that it's taking away jobs from Americans. Why do you think ending it is the best way to help Floridians looking for a job?

FISHBACK: Well, it's the best way to help Floridians because you've got recent college grads right here in my home state of Florida who cannot get a job. They've gotten straight A's. They have a near perfect SAT score. They went to college. They did everything right. They took on the debt. And they come to find that the entry level accounting position at Accenture or Deloitte was filled by a cheap foreign laborer on the premise that they were not smart enough.

That's a slanderous lie that's pushed by the big banks, by the corporate CEOs, by the Chamber of Commerce, that Americans are not smart enough. We are the smartest, hungriest, most brilliant people on planet Earth. And the idea, Laura, that we need to import labor from India or China for entry-level accountants or IT workers, that's preposterous.

As Florida's next governor, I will stand up and end the H-1B scam to make sure that our grads can actually get jobs again. And this is not about a highfalutin issue. If you can't get a job, can you really buy a home? If you can't buy a home, can you really get married? If you can't get married, can you have kids? And if you can't have kids, what's the point? Everything comes back to your ability to get a job, and that's what I'm going to fight for.

COATES: I don't know. You could probably live a very satisfying life without children. I'm a mother, but I'm just going to tell you, the way you made a connective tissue, you might play ruffles a couple of feathers. I'm sure you imagine that.

Let me ask you. You're a federal. This is a federal program talking with H-1B. It's federal. Governors have only limited power over it. Descendants is already cracking down on what he calls H-1B visa abuse at public universities who are not having the same cap as maybe a private employer. But what could you do realistically to stop H-1B visas in Florida assuming that what you believe is indeed true?

FISHBACK: Well, there are thousands of companies across my state that want contracts with the state government, everything from serving up meals to serving up I.T. contracts. And so, if you're going to come to my office as governor and you're going to want a state contract, I'm going to have you make a real tough decision. Do you want your 50 million-dollar contract a year or do you want to keep your 50 H-1Bs? You've got 24 hours. You pick. No negotiating.

Because at the end of the day, as Florida governor, I will always stand with our workers. Black, white, rural, urban, Republican or Democrat, it doesn't matter. I will always stand with the dignity of our neighbors. They deserve these jobs because they deserve to exist in a state where they can earn a great job, earn a great living, and then go on to raise a great God-fearing family.

COATES: Really quick. I mean, obviously, Florida is a destination for so many people, whether to live or as tourism and beyond.

[23:35:00]

And there's also a number of immigrants who are living in Florida, as you well know, all across the area. You have suggested that companies are -- quote -- "importing Indians" and you want a complete ban on immigration, legal or illegal. Indian Americans make up, I think, less than 1% of Florida's entire population. Why do you single out Indian Americans?

FISHBACK: Well, I singled out Indian Americans not because they're Indian Americans, I singled them out because they're 77% of all H-1Bs given. This is not about anyone from a particular country, it is about Americans. I don't hate immigrants. I don't hate any of that. What I love is I love our people. I love folks from Pahokee and Belle Glade and Clewiston and Davie and Brooksville.

I love them so much that I want to serve them as the next governor after Ron DeSantis because I want to fight for them. The ability for them to go to high school, to go off to college or technical school, get a great paying job so they can raise a family and live out the full arc of the American dream. That's why I'm running for Florida governor, and I'd be honored to have their vote.

COATES: I'll be curious to see if the American dream and your debates coming forward will include those who come to the United States are able to achieve citizenship and then contribute to the community. Does that also contribute to the American dream?

FISHBACK: I don't think so. I think the American dream, quite frankly, is for Americans. I don't think you can make America great again with foreigners or immigrants or any of that nonsense. I want to look to the folks in my community who look very different from me, to tell you the truth. The folks in my community who are Americans, who have been in our state for generations, who may have just gotten a job as a plumber, as a dry cleaner, as a bus driver as my dad did for 10 years down in Broward County where I grew up, I want to fight for them so they can be able to live out the mark of American dream. That's what this is all about.

COATES: So, no one can become American to you?

FISHBACK: Well, look, I think we can talk about citizenship, but we can really talk about the folks that are actually here who are actually contributing. I'm sorry, Laura. If you're a Haitian American who got here five weeks ago on TPS, you're not all of a sudden American. You don't get food stamps. You don't get an Obama phone because Ellis Island, they weren't handing those things out earlier.

I want to fight for people who are going to actually contribute to our country, and those people are already here. I'm going to fight for them as Florida's next governor.

COATES: Under your criteria, Elon Musk would be excluded. Is that OK?

FISHBACK: Look, Elon Musk is not from the United States of America.

COATES: I know.

FISHBACK: He came here on an H-1B visa --

COATES: I know.

FISHBACK: -- as did millions of people. But for every one Elon Musk, if there's another million people who take a job from someone else, from a qualified American, I don't think that justifies it. I wish my friend, Elon Musk, all the best, but he is the exception to the rule. He is not the rule.

We have so many qualified workers right here in America, right here in Florida, whether they're at FAMU or FSU or FAU or UF or UCF. I want to give them the opportunity to shine. If folks want to stay in their country and be brave and do great things in Africa, Asia, Europe, South America, they should stay there and do that. They should not come to our country and take opportunities from our people.

COATES: You do realize that would apply, your logic, that the idea of being known as the exception or the rule seems to be arbitrary and subjective to you when Elon Musk as but one example, obviously, you know DOGE quite well, he created thousands of jobs. People have complimented for a number of reasons.

But I'm sure there are others who contribute not perhaps as the richest man in the world, but in ways that one would think a voter in Florida would want to be appreciated. Why are you so averse to the idea that one could love and embrace and contribute to the country even if they weren't here for generations?

FISHBACK: Well, my empathy and my love is for the people of my state. College grads at UF and FSU are staring down the toughest job market in a generation. They can't get jobs, they can't get homes, they can't have real relationships as a result of those first two things. So, my loyalty is going to be with them. That's what matters at the end of the day.

COATES: We'll see how the voters feel. James Fishback, thank you for joining me.

FISHBACK: Thanks, Laura.

COATES: Tonight, a reality check for President Trump on his proposal to extend the Obamacare subsidies, a plan that hasn't been formally unveiled yet but was leaked to reporters after Republicans pushed back. Trump seems to be thinking twice about that idea tonight.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Are you planning to extend those subsidies?

TRUMP: I rather not. Somebody said I want to extend it for two years. I don't want to extend it for two years. I'd rather not extend them at all. It may be some kind of an extension may be necessary to get something else done.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: With me now, T.W. Arrighi, former senior communications aide to Senator Lindsey Graham, and former Illinois Republican Congressman Joe Walsh, host of "The Social Contract." Glad to have both of you guys here.

I want to get into what the president said. But first, I got to ask you about what I just heard from the candidate, James Fishback, for governor. Immigration in this country, obviously, a very important topic. It has been one that has ruled the day when talking about our borders and beyond. But it's also one that has to be discussed in any campaign, particularly in states like Florida.

[23:40:04]

T.W., when you heard what he had to say just now about the idea of one -- I'm paraphrasing here -- not able to become American and prioritizing an America first agenda, including who constitutes an American, will that serve him well as a candidate? You're a strategist. Tell me.

T.W. ARRIGHI, VICE PRESIDENT OF PUSH DIGITAL GROUP, FORMER COMMUNICATIONS AIDE TO LINDSEY GRAHAM AND MIKE POMPEO: Well, I don't know if he's looking at demographics of South Florida, but they aren't exactly filled with fifth generation Americans. And this might surprise you, but the name Arrighi didn't exactly appear on the mayflower rolls, so I find it crazy to say that there's no one who can immigrate here and become an American. That makes no sense on its face.

You can walk and chew gum at the same time. You can say you care for all those students coming out of college, looking for jobs. Yes, should be doing that as governor. You also should say -- you welcome people here who want to build a life. Do it legally, do it the right way. Build a future, build a family, and build a better America together. I thought that was an ill-thought-out answer.

COATES: Joe, you know, one of the things he did mention early in our conversation was the idea of affordability. This phrase we hear again and again. It was one that allowed Mamdani and others to be successful in their campaigns even earlier this month. Speaker Johnson has been reportedly talking to Trump about Republicans who do not support temporarily extending the subsidies. Why is this such a hard decision for the president and the party?

JOE WALSH, PODCAST HOST, FORMER ILLINOIS REPRESENTATIVE: Well, Laura, take the president out of the picture because I don't think he really has anything to do with this. It's a difficult issue for my former party, and I say this as a Republican who voted years ago to repeal Obamacare because we shouted repeal, replace, repeal, replace until the cows came home, and we've never ever, ever had a replace.

And here we are now eight to 10 years later and the Republican Party just can't escape that. They do not have anything, anything to replace Obamacare with these subsidies with. So, politically, they're going to be forced. Many of these Republicans are going to be forced to extend the subsidies, and these are going to be Republicans who've spent their whole careers trying to repeal Obamacare.

COATES: T.W., why is this issue one that Republicans are feeling comfortable breaking with Trump on, but not other issues?

ARRIGHI: Well, I think there are three parts to this. First of all, I don't think there is one member of the House who doesn't realize this is a massive problem, who isn't hearing at home that premiums are set to go up. Number two, I think everyone who's being honest with the situation realizes that the Affordable Care Act is anything but affordable, and these subsidies are propping up insurance companies on our dime, which is a problem. And number three, I think everyone realizes that there is a ton of politics being played with this, especially on the left. There is nothing that the Democrats would like more than to focus on health care in the midterm elections.

And I think Joe is right. We need, and I'm going to echo Tim Burchett here, who said this the other day, that it took guts for President Trump to put this proposal out there or at least circulate it in the White House. But Republicans need the answer.

And I think if we're honest with the American people, we talk about competition, we talk about transparency, we talk about how the fat cats at the hospital networks and the insurance companies are ruining our system, I think we will win back the American voter, but that we need an idea behind this thrust, and we should not put the failures of government on the backs of the American consumer who are paying higher premiums for the mistakes of Congress.

WALSH: Laura?

COATES: Yes?

WALSH: Laura, I love my friend, T.W., but the bottom line is Republicans, my former party, have never had a plan! They could take the politics off of it if they just had a plan. Quickly, Laura, quickly, I got to say, that was a great interview with that candidate, and it's not crazy, what he said about immigration. I think it's wrong, but it will appeal to the Republican Party base. That's what he's going at, sadly.

COATES: T.W. is saying no.

ARRIGHI: The gains that Donald Trump made in South Florida will be erased.

COATES: Gentlemen, a cliffhanger. T.W., Joe, next time.

ARRIGHI: Thank you.

WALSH: Happy Thanksgiving.

COATES: Up next -- happy Thanksgiving. But up next, this is a horrible story. She was found dead on a cruise ship on November 7th, mysteriously killed. Her death now ruled a homicide with her family alleging a teen relative as a suspect. But yet, no arrests. So, what exactly is going on here? We're going unpack it all next.

[23:45:00]

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COATES: It's a mystery fueling speculation and raising concerns and questions about the lack of answers from law enforcement. I'm talking about a family vacation on a cruise ship that took a tragic turn after the death of 18-year-old Anna Kepner. Today, her death was ruled a homicide. ABC News obtained a copy of the Florida teen's death certificate. The cause of death listed? Mechanical asphyxia by other persons.

Here's what else we know. Anna was vacationing with her family that included her grandparents, her father, her stepmother, and step siblings. She was found dead in her cabin that she was sharing with her 16-year-old stepbrother. We now know that her body was concealed, found under the bed by the ship's housekeeping. There was no sign of sexual assault or drugs or alcohol in her system. Court documents in a separate custody case also reveal that Anna's stepbrother is a suspect in her death.

[23:49:59]

Joining me now, retired NYPD detective, Michael Alcazar, and anchor and editor-in-chief of "Real Story Media," Tony Brueski. This is a horrible tragedy. Tony, authorities have not released many details, but if we know that it has been ruled a homicide, why haven't we heard more?

TONY BRUESKI, ANCHOR AND EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, REAL STORY MEDIA: Well, there are two big reasons for not hearing more yet, because they need to take their time and make sure that they're basically crossing their Ts and dotting their Is. None of them mean the case is stalled.

First, even with homicide confirmed, investigators still need to understand the mechanism and the timeline to get pinned down. Mechanical asphyxia, that can happen in multiple ways. Armbar, compression, choke-type pressure, and the prosecutors need the exact scenario before they can file charges.

The other thing is the fact that it's a juvenile suspect, which automatically slows everything down. You can't interrogate a minor the same way you can interrogate an adult. Statements can be thrown out. Interviews must follow strict rules. Again, it's crossing the Ts and dotting the Is.

COATES: You know, Michael, Anna's grandmother says that Anna's stepbrother claimed that he doesn't -- this is a quote -- "doesn't remember what happened" and that the two were close. But Anna's ex- boyfriend had told local reporters that there may have been a troubling history. That's a discrepancy that investigators are going lean into, right?

MICHAEL ALCAZAR, RETIRED DETECTIVE, NYPD: Yes, they'll definitely go into the history, the family history, any disputes in the past, what kind of relationship they had. They're going to have to vet all those other witnesses and interview them, probably interview witnesses on the boat, staff. So, it's big undertaking in a short amount of time.

COATES: Describe more to me, Tony, the idea of this mechanical asphyxia, the idea of a bar hold that could have filtered. Describe more what that investigation looks like to try to recreate or understand what was the actual cause.

BRUESKI: Well, it's going to be getting down to what was going on here. Was this something where it was extreme horseplay, someone that didn't know their strength? Was this something where there was more intent to it? They're going to be looking at all of the aspects of this, including how this may have been, this hold would have been on her, and then they're going to put that with the information that they find and the conversations that they have.

COATES: Who has jurisdiction over this, Michael, when you think about it? I mean, this is a cruise ship. I'm assuming some sort of waters, obviously. International waters, possibly. The suspect is a minor. What challenges does that pose?

ALCAZAR: Yes, it's complex. So, the FBI has jurisdiction because it happened in international waters. Luckily, they docked in Miami. God forbid they docked in another country. So, the FBI takes the lead. You know, the crime scene was easy to process for the most part because it's indoors, not outdoors. But again, it's a cruise line.

COATES: Yes.

ALCAZAR: So, they have to gather all the evidence that could be potentially in that room.

COATES: My goodness. Michael Alcazar, Tony Brueski, thank you both.

BRUESKI: Thank you.

COATES: We're back with this week's CNN hero after a short break.

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[23:55:00]

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COATES: Well, before Elex Michaelson fills up his copy of "The Story Is," be sure to vote for the 2025 CNN hero of the year. You can go to cnn.com/heroes to pick your favorite. We continue to count down the top heroes. And you know what? Tonight, we are reintroducing you to Quilen Blackwell and the work he's doing in Chicago's South Side neighborhood.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

QUILEN BLACKWELL, CNN HERO: Most people wouldn't expect to see a full flower farm here on the south side of Chicago. It's really cool to be able to bring that beauty to places where people least expect it.

BLACKWELL (voice-over): I've been living in Inglewood since 2015. It's one of the more dangerous neighborhoods. High poverty, high urban blight. So, you can kind of see like storefronts that are boarded up. The building gets condemned. So, knock the building down and not the vacant lot. Yeah, these aren't parks. Most people will see the trash, the vacant lots. But for me, I see potential. We're here to try to bring life.

BLACKWELL: Southside Blooms is a farm to vase florist. We'll take over vacant lots, grow our own flowers, design them in our flower shop, and then we do retail bouquets, weddings, corporate events, and everything in between. This is about creating opportunity in a place that desperately needs it.

BLACKWELL (voice-over): Try to get some good stem length. You know the drill. A big part of what we do is creating jobs in the floral industry for at-risk youth.

BLACKWELL: What's your favorite flower?

UNKNOWN: The lilies, cosmos.

BLACKWELL: My favorite? It would be the red roses. Growing up, I was very fortunate. I had a bevy of opportunities. I came to Chicago, started tutoring at a high school in Inglewood, and I started to just realize, I could be any one these kids. I want to do them tiger lilies again.

BLACKWELL (voice-over): There are people who want a chance at something better.

UNKNOWN: We have to grow up fast around here. I lost a lot of friends, end up in jail. I was looking for a job. One of my friends, he was like, hey bro, I got a job. I'm like, bro, flowers? What?

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Working here, I see myself changing, calmer, into nature. This was just an empty parking lot.

UNKNOWN: We did this, we started all this, we cleaned it up. It's our community, our proud.

BLACKWELL (voice-over): Ready for the event?

UNKNOWN: Getting there!

BLACKWELL (voice-over): My wife, Hannah, trained as a florist, figured out the youth training program.

UNKNOWN (voice-over): It's a feel. So, teaching kind of the basic concept, and then kind of letting their creativity go.

UNKNOWN: I learned, I paid close attention, I asked questions, and I fell in love with it.

[00:00:00]

I'm an example. I purchased my first apartment. I purchased a car. I try to tell everybody, if there is an opportunity to every place you step in, you take advantage of it.

BLACKWELL (voice-over): Our young people are blossoming and blooming every single day.

(END VIDEOTAPE)