Return to Transcripts main page

Laura Coates Live

DOJ Investigates Minneapolis Mayor And Minnesota Governor For Alleged Obstruction Of Law Enforcement; Trump Administration Presses Frustration On ICE Raids; Trump Grants Pardon To 34 People Who Have Fraud Charges; More Than A Dozen NCAA Players Charged Over A Game- Rigging Scandal. Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired January 16, 2026 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[23:00:31]

LAURA COATES, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: Good evening, I'm Laura Coates on this Friday night with the stunning breaking news out of Minnesota. Well, stunning, even if predictable.

Because the DOJ is now investigating Governor Tim Walz and Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey. Why? For possible obstruction of federal law enforcement.

We've also learned a grand jury has issued subpoenas for both of them. Governor Walz says the Trump administration is weaponizing the justice system and committing what he calls a dangerous authoritarian act. Meanwhile, Mayor Frey calls it an obvious attempt to intimidate him for standing up for Minneapolis.

Now, one thing President Trump has made clear, he is totally fed up with Walz and Frey for pushing back against his ICE surge. He attacked them just today, claiming that they have totally lost control. And he's still floating the insurrection act, though he says he doesn't think there's any reason to use it right now but reading those tea leaves, you could have seen this coming.

The Attorney General Pam Bondi posted yesterday, quote, "Minnesota leadership encourages lawbreaking." DOJ's number two, Todd Blanche, said just the other day on Wednesday, quote, "Walz and Frey, I'm focused on stopping you from your terrorism by whatever means necessary. This is not a threat, it's a promise."

And tonight, Blanche is saying this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TODD BLANCHE, DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL: When the governor or the mayor threaten our officers, when the mayor suggests that he's encouraging citizens to call 911 when they see ICE officers, that is very close to a federal crime. You cannot do that. If you impede the work we're doing, you better be worried because we're coming after you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Very close to a federal crime? Or a crime? Kind of a hedge, right?

Look, it's no secret that Walz and Frey have been extremely vocal and extremely critical of Trump's immigration crackdown in Minneapolis. I mean, we remember the F-bomb, to say the least. But I also remember both of them saying everything must stay peaceful, including right after Renee Good was shot and killed by an ICE officer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. TIM WALZ (D-MN): What we're seeing is the consequences of governance designed to generate fear, headlines, and conflict. It's governing by reality T.V.

To Minnesotans, I say this, I feel your anger. I'm angry. They want a show, we can't give it to them, we cannot.

If you protest and express your First Amendment rights, please do so peacefully, as you always do.

MAYOR JACOB FREY (D), MINNEAPOLIS: To ICE, get the fuck out of Minneapolis. We do not want you here. Let's show them who we can be, let's show up with peace.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Now, they have maintained a similar message ever since, calling out the administration, but also otherwise talking about peace throughout their speeches. I wonder how they'll see that, though.

Because even this week, the same day that an ICE agent shot a Venezuelan national after an alleged struggle, well--

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WALZ: We cannot give him what he wants. We can. We must protest loudly, urgently, but also peacefully.

And if you see these ICE agents in your neighborhood, take out that phone and hit record. Help us create a database of the atrocities against Minnesotans.

FREY: We have residents that are asking the very limited number of police officers that we have to fight ICE agents on the street, to stand by their neighbors. We cannot be at a place right now in America where we have two governmental entities that are literally fighting one another.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Something tells me a grand jury is going to hear other parts of the speech, huh? But all of that sounded like political speech. A grand jury could see differently for probable cause purposes.

But that's probably because Trump also clearly isn't only interested in going after political enemies from his past. This is no longer just about James Comey or Letitia James, is it? For him, it seems to be an open universe of targets, not a closed enemies list.

Opponents who he sees now as standing in the way of his agenda. And you know, this week might give you some proof to that.

[23:05:05]

It was only Sunday when we learned the DOJ was investigating the Fed Chair, Jerome Powell. Now Powell says it's because he's not bending to Trump's bullying on lowering interest rates, which would help his agenda.

And now to bookend the week, we know the administration is investigating Tim Walz and Jacob Frey. They say because they're standing up for the rights of Minnesotans.

And when pushback starts looking like obstruction, well, the rule of law might start looking a lot like politics. Again.

Leading us off is former federal prosecutor Mike Gordon, who prosecuted some of the most notorious January 6th cases until, of course, he was fired for it. He is now suing the DOJ over his dismissal.

Mike, I'm glad you're here. I mean, I called it stunning. Perhaps it's predictable as well that there would be some investigation knowing what had been said earlier in the week.

But the idea of a grand jury approving a subpoena doesn't necessarily mean that they have found probable cause or that an indictment is forthcoming, is it?

MIKE GORDON, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR WHO PROSECUTED JANUARY 6 CASES: Oh, no. Not at all, Laura. And first, thanks for having me on.

But I appreciate that question, because the burden on prosecutors to get a grand jury subpoena is actually very low. All they have to show is a good faith basis to believe that the subpoena has a reasonable possibility of leading to relevant evidence. That's it.

It's a long way from that to a grand jury finding probable cause that a crime was committed.

COATES: Well, what did you hear Todd Blanche say? It looks very close to a crime, which, you know, they say close but no cigar, close but no indictment. I don't know what the outcome will ultimately be.

But if they're predicating this based on the mayor and the governor's public statements, do you see that as sufficient if you were to try to convince a grand jury to indict on obstruction?

GORDON: Absolutely not. There's no way that I would go to a grand jury with that as the charge I was bringing. The statute that the government's looking at, 18 U.S.C. 372, that makes it a conspiracy to use force, threats, or intimidation to obstruct the government.

Force requires a physical act. So it's obviously not that. There's no allegation that the governor or the mayor did anything physical.

So the government would have to be saying that these statements by the governor and the mayor amounted to intimidation or threats to ICE. And what I heard the governor and the mayor saying is that citizens should call 9-1-1. You call 9-1-1 when you're asking for help.

They instructed citizens to pull out their cell phones and hit record. That's not a threat or intimidation. And in fact, courts have found that recording law enforcement is perfectly legal and is not in any way obstructive.

So I struggle to look at what the governor and the mayor have said and to find that any of those statements are threats or intimidation. To me, this looks like a pretty obvious attempt to coerce the governor and the mayor to get in line and stop opposing ICE.

COATES: Well, that's what they are claiming as well in their response to the news that they had these subpoenas issued. And given what you've said, I mean, there is context here.

These are people who Trump is certainly no fan of, even with the other cases I've been talking about. There is a pattern that DOJ is certainly being a conduit of his grievance. What do you think is going to be the cumulative effect on DOJ and its credibility?

GORDON: Well, I think it's already happened. I think that the American people, and certainly people that I speak to, my friends, my neighbors, my former colleagues, people see this for what it is. The Department of Justice has turned from something where everyone is treated equally under the law, where prosecutors follow the facts and the law wherever they lead without fear or favor, into essentially being an arm of retribution for the president that he declared openly that he intended to use it as.

People are being targeted for being political opponents of the President, and they're being rewarded with pardons when they're friends of the President or when they donate to his PAC or to his campaign or to his inauguration. It's essentially pay-to-play justice. It reminds me of that old saying, for my friends, everything; for my enemies, the law.

COATES: Mike Gordon, stand by. We'll see you again a little later this hour.

I want to bring in Congressman Glenn Ivey of Maryland. He's one of several Democrats who traveled to Minneapolis today for a field hearing on what was going on there.

[23:10:01]

He also served as a former U.S. attorney right here as well in D.C., and I'm curious your impression, given the pattern that has obviously emerged, but also the inkblot test that people are trying to say is existing when it comes to what's happening with the ICE surge. What is your reaction to the DOJ investigating either the governor of Minnesota or the mayor of Minneapolis? REP. GLENN IVEY (D-MD): It looks ridiculous on its face, frankly. It's

starting to remind me a little bit of the Nixon enemies list, but it's a little worse, actually, because they're actually moving forward. He turned the Department of Justice into the Department of Retribution, and so I think it's being abused, and I think people see that.

The problem, though, is in Minnesota, we went up there today, and instead of the prosecutors investigating the shooting that took place, for example, you had the six assistant U.S. attorneys that walked out, they resigned, because they were pressuring them to investigate, try and find dirt on the spouse of the woman who was killed, and they didn't want to do that.

And at the same time, they're saying to the investigators, there's nothing to see here, nothing bad happened, but they're also refusing to turn over the evidence to Keith Ellison and local and state prosecutors so they can do their own investigation. So they're not doing what they're supposed to do, and they're blocking other people from doing the work that they should do, which actually sounds, if they're going to start throwing around the obstruction accusation, maybe they need to look in the mirror.

COATES: It might be very rich for some people to hear that. And yet, you spoke with the mayor of Minneapolis today. Did you have any indications this was coming? Did you ask him anything about this?

IVEY: Well, the mayor was there, and we had two panels of witnesses who testified, the attorney general testified.

COATES: Keith Ellison.

IVEY: And then you had six people out on the ground, a police chief, a couple of people who'd been detained, and illegally, frankly. One woman is obviously a citizen, but they got mad at her for filming and sort of monitoring what was going on.

COATES: But you have the right to film. You just cannot interfere with the exercise of law enforcement.

IVEY: Yes, that's right. And they arrested her. They put ankle shackles on her and held her, I think, for nine hours.

COATES: I want to play a clip from that very moment.

IVEY: Okay.

COATES: Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MUBASHIR KHALIF HUSSAIN, U.S. CITIZEN DETAINED BY ICE: When we got into a building, the agents took the handcuffs off me and put shackles on my ankles before searching me. I asked for water, they said no. Then an employee told me I was being deported.

I again insisted that I was a citizen and that I could show proof over on my phone. I showed a picture of my passport card to a woman at the ICE office. She took a picture of my passport card and then searched for my name in the criminal database.

Eventually, she said, kick him out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: It must have been disorienting to hear stories like this from American citizens.

IVEY: It's shocking. But he wasn't even the one I was talking about. There was another witness who had testified to something similar happening.

COATES: A pattern.

IVEY: Definitely a pattern. The other pattern that was troubling to me that I tried to raise is the shootings. And it's not just happening in Minneapolis, I think there have been 16 or so since fall.

And the mayor testified. I think there have been four in his city. Two of those were shootings by ICE.

So, you know, when ICE is doing half of the shootings in your city, that's a big problem.

COATES: Here's a phrase that people have heard when it comes to law enforcement use of force. Reasonable, articulable suspicion. Now, law students know it well, but people who've been following excessive force cases now do as well.

And tonight a federal judge ruled that federal agents can't retaliate, arrest, or detain peaceful protesters. And agents can't stop people in their cars without what I just described. Reasonable, articulable suspicion.

What do you make of that ruling? How does that translate for the everyday person who wants to know their rights?

IVEY: Well, the reason that's important is because what ICE has been doing is they've been stopping people, racially profiling, basically. If you're a Latino or in Minneapolis, Somalia, they're just stopping people en masse and figuring out later whether they're actually citizens or not or may have some sort of violations in place.

The way it's supposed to work under that standard, the Terry Stop standard, is that the police are supposed to have some kind of suspicion that there's some kind of criminal activity that that person's involved in.

Optimally, you'd have a warrant. It would be even better. They're not bothering to do either of those, though.

They're casting out broad nets, gathering up people, and sorting it out. And that's illegal.

COATES: What can you do about it?

IVEY: Well, there's a couple things we need to do. Democrats in Congress, at least, are cutting off the funding to try and get Homeland Security's attention.

[23:15:01]

Another piece is court because these are violations. I think Divens is the case that they're violating. And they can be sued for that and I think there have to be pattern and practice types of investigations, too.

Now, those were going on across the country in different cities that were having trouble. Trump shut all of those down.

But we've got to renew those. When we get a Democrat back in the White House, or a reasonable Republican in the White House, they need to renew those.

COATES: I wonder if there's time to wait. Patience seems to be a virtue in days like this. Congressman Glenn Ivey, thank you so much.

IVEY: Thank you.

COATES: As defiant as the administration may be in public, is the chaos in Minneapolis secretly starting to worry them behind closed doors? Should they recalibrate? Will they? We'll debate the new reporting on this with our panel next.

And later, the new presidential pardons turning heads as President Trump frees someone, not once, but twice.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:20:06]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE ROGAN, PODCAST HOST: I also see the point of view of the people who say, yes, but you don't want militarized people in the streets just roaming around snatching people up, many of which turn out to actually be U.S. citizens.

They just don't have their papers on them. Are we really going to be the Gestapo? Where's your papers? Is that what we've come to?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Podcast host Joe Rogan expressing how many Americans feel about President Trump's immigration crackdown. And tonight, Axios is reporting that Trump is concerned about the optics of his ICE raids. One adviser saying the President, quote, "doesn't like the way it looks, it looks bad, so he's expressed some discomfort at that."

We'll talk about it with T.W. Arrigi, former communications aide to Senator Lindsey Graham, and Nayyera Haq, former Obama White House senior director.

Well, first of all, expressing some discomfort, that's such a vague statement. I mean, what does that really mean? But also, do you think that he should be this uncomfortable about it? Are the optics that bad for President Trump?

T.W. ARRIGHI, VICE PRESIDENT, PUSH DIGITAL GROUP: Well, the numbers tell the story, right? CNN's own polling, right after he took office, support was over 50 percent for deportation orders to go out for those who were here illegally. Those numbers have plummeted. There's a reason for it, and it's not because we haven't removed people from the streets who were really bad.

We have tons of them, and I don't think that gets enough publicity. However, some of those footage, the footage that Joe Rogan talks about, is jarring. Now, some of you don't know the backstory to them when you watch it, but it's jarring to people who haven't seen it before.

And so, yes, there is some work to be done. I've said from the get-go, with great power comes great responsibility, and ICE always needs to be looking to make sure it's doing the best job possible. I support the men and women of ICE, I think they do a great service to this country.

However, we need to make sure we're doing it in a way that honors those who are here legally and handles those who are here illegally with some dignity and respect.

NAYEERA HAQ, FORMER OBAMA WHITE HOUSE SR. DIRECTOR: Here's the challenge that I see with that, is that 75,000 people have been detained with no criminal records, right? And that's -- they're not having been charged with anything.

We're looking at 1000 arrests a day, and everything we're seeing right now that's upsetting people about how ICE is operating, that's only a third of the quota that they're supposed to be reaching every day. So you can only imagine what pressure there is to escalate and escalate and do more to the point where they're going door-to-door.

They are now grabbing people who just happen to be around the neighborhood when something is going down and demanding that they show their papers, something that the Secretary of Homeland Security is defending, saying that, yes, everybody in America should be prepared to show their papers.

That's horrifying. That is where we are.

COATES: Tell me what your thought about that is, because that has been something that's been, throughout the week, I keep focusing on this and thinking about this, the idea of proving one's American-ness or stopping somebody, because you're going to confront people who indeed are American who are not carrying around their passports.

I don't care. I'm American. You are.

Are you carrying around your passport?

HAQ: Oh, I have legit been carrying around my passport card out of concern.

COATES: Ask why.

HAQ: Ask why, yes.

I've been carrying it around because I am of brown skin. I'm a native- born American, but Stephen Miller has come to say that he doesn't want people like me to have citizenship in this country anymore. I could easily pass for some other type of ethnicity.

I've been confused in my neighborhood when walking my own kids around as the nanny. So, yes, I've been carrying my passport card around since the day that Trump got re-elected.

COATES: That's got to give Republicans pause or not. No, but my point, though, is, and this is the "Wall Street Journal" making this point, and I'm glad you shared your personal story, too, because it's very, not only compelling, but far more widespread than people give it credit for, and the "Wall Street Journal" on Twitter is warning that Trump, against even the Insurrection Act, saying that it couldn't incite more protests, it might cause more voters to wonder why the country is so unhappy in the second Trump term.

But that's one cause to be unhappy if Americans are being stopped and saying, you American, prove it.

ARRIGHI: Yes, well, I think that's the discussion being had in the White House and why Donald Trump is citing some concern. There's been plenty of reporting about different factions in the White House who have a different outlook on this, whether it's Kristi Noem, whether it's Tom Holman, whether it's Stephen Miller.

HAQ: But here's the thing.

ARRIGHI: There are, but hold on a second. If I take it back to what makes me angry, I read the rap sheet of some of the people who were picked up in Minneapolis and Minnesota, and I can't read a lot of them on the air because they're so heinous and graphic, but you have people who were convicted of kidnapping and rape of a 12-year-old girl with a deportation order since 2004, someone with two counts of homicide with a deportation order since 2009, and another guy, and this is just a very small sampling, convicted of rape, rape with a weapon, and sexual assault with a deportation order since 1996.

[23:24:54]

The onus of this whole thing and why we even have all these ICE officials in the first place is because these sanctuary cities and these liberal politicians don't let Tom Holman, CBP, and ICE in the jails to take them in a safe environment.

HAQ: Oh my God. Let's rewind, and there have always been procedures in place for ICE to be cooperating and working with law enforcement, so it is a failure of multiple administrations of people like this with these criminal rap sheets have been allowed to continue to stay here in the United States. That is not the vast majority of people who are being detained right now. The fear of two or three people has led to thousands upon thousands being detained, being harmed.

We have had a man who died in ICE detention last week where a judge just ruled that as homicide. You had a white woman who was shot in the head last week. Regardless of what you think she did or did not do before, whatever she did about interrupting a law enforcement investigation, none of that has ever led to a death sentence in this country before you have a trial.

COATES: So are you suggesting the end would justify the means?

ARRIGHI: I've never suggested that. My point has always been that ICE should always be trying to improve and do better. If there is a mistake that ICE has made, I've said it many times, they should rectify it.

Since Donald Trump has come into office, politicians across the country, governors, D.A.s, mayors, have made it a point to stand in the way of any greater enforcement of immigration policy that was a failure of the last four years where 20 million people came across this border illegally. We would not have had this problem if there was some responsibility in the White House to last four years to shut this down.

But hold on a second.

HAQ: These facts are not true.

ARRIGHI: It is true.

HAQ: It is not true. President Trump has yet to make the number of deportations that Obama made.

Obama was considered the border in chief. My point is this is not a Democrat or Republican problem. This has been a broken American immigration system problem that Congress has not addressed.

The last time we had comprehensive immigration reform was under Ronald Reagan.

ARRIGHI: When you have cities and states with violent criminals behind bars and they will not ask their immigration status as a way of flexing their political muscle nationally, yes, that is a massive problem and Donald Trump is right to attack it.

HAQ: What he is attacking is American civil liberties, free speech, American citizens. ICE agents should not be showing up en masse, untrained, with masks, unidentified, demanding to be let into people's houses without warrants, pulling, cutting seatbelts off and pulling people out of cars because they would not move their cars.

They have gone above and beyond to use of force in ways we have never seen before. ARRIGHI: I can play along with a lot of that and I can go with a lot

of that. What I cannot go along with is the usurpation of our laws and the non-enforcement of our laws by liberal politicians and past liberal administrations that have led us to this critical point of destruction and I think a lot of what ICE is doing is great work.

T.W., Nayyera, will have to leave it there.

Welcome to the immigration debate.

Up next, a convicted fraudster freed from prison by President Trump only to commit fraud again has been pardoned and freed from prison again. Mike Gordon is back with me after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:30:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COATES: All right, I get this. Back in 2021, the President commuted the sentence of convicted fraudster Adriana Camberos. She was freed from prison and given a second chance.

What did she do with that second chance? Committed fraud. Again, you'd think she would be facing prison time, right? Nope.

She and her brother, who was also convicted, were granted pardons by the President once again.

Makes you think, does the President really care about combating fraud? He has said so in places like Minneapolis and we ran the numbers and within the president's second term, it seems he has pardoned or commuted prison sentences for at least 34 different people convicted of fraud.

Mike Gordon is back with me now. I mean, Mike, first of all, I thought third time's a charm, but twice given clemency, someone who's already been granted it in the past, getting a new pardon for a new conviction, that's unusual.

GORDON: I mean, it boggles the mind, Laura. I've never heard of it in all my years as a prosecutor, in all my years even tracking criminal justice. It's appalling.

COATES: I mean, when this very thing happened, these are siblings who were convicted of selling groceries, by the way, at inflated prices to Americans, and they have been pardoned at a time where Americans obviously are feeling a pinch when it comes to just how much food costs. Now, with their pardons, they don't even have to pay restitution. That might not be justice for many people.

GORDON: No, we've seen the same thing with the $38 million fraud in Minnesota with Esformis, when that zeroed out the restitution that all of those victims were owed. You know, Laura, there's basically four pillars of types of prosecutions that give the American people faith that their government treats everybody equally: civil rights, public corruption, white collar fraud, and then foreign bribery, shows you the rich and the powerful and the connected will all be prosecuted equally.

[23:34:57]

And yet what we're seeing with the pattern of pardons is that all of those things are being deprioritized, if not kneecapped by this administration, and that justice is available to whoever can pay for it.

COATES: I mean, the President has absolute pardon power. So many would say, well, tough luck. It's his prerogative to do whatever he wants to do with his pardon power.

It is really an absolute, but I wonder what message it sends to people who might feel emboldened to believe that if they had that access, then why prevent the crime?

GORDON: Absolutely.

Pardons are supposed to be given to people who the criminal justice system has already worked on. They have been sufficiently punished. They have served a significant amount of their sentence.

They have shown that they are ready to reenter society. They've been rehabilitated. There's no need to keep them in prison any longer.

That's when mercy is appropriate. That's not what we're seeing here. President Trump has pardoned fraudsters after his own DOJ has charged them, before they've even been convicted.

He's pardoned them after they've been convicted, but before they've served a single day of their sentence. This is not what pardons are for.

COATES: I mean, some of these pardons over the course of his second term have been things that have even had prosecutions within this second term. I mean, that can be very demoralizing for the prosecutors who are investing government resources, read taxpayer money and time to try to secure convictions on behalf of the people of the United States. What to do to the prosecutors who are being told, oh, good job, no.

GORDON: That's what I hear from my friends who are still in the department, Laura, that effectively, public corruption prosecution is dead under this administration and white collar fraud prosecutions are dying. The prosecutors who do these kinds of cases worry that any case they touch might be either a waste of time or considered a disfavored party, that down the line, they're going to be fired for having worked on that case.

COATES: Mike Gordon, thank you so much.

GORDON: Thank you, Laura. COATES: Up next, millions of dollars, a dozen players, dozen plus players indicted. We're going to take you inside the stunning criminal conspiracy to rig college basketball and I'll talk to a former college star who was once the poster child of Fixing Games.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN: This is one of the most significant sports conspiracies in the country.

UNKNOWN: You just don't win by more than six.

UNKNOWN: Hedake.

UNKNOWN: And sure enough, they won by six.

STEVIN "HEDAKE" SMITH, FORMER NCAA PLAYER INVOLVED IN POINT-SHAVING SCANDAL: Oh, man. Really (expletive) up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:40:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COATES; Another week, another betting scandal rocking college basketball. Prosecutors charging 26 people in a scheme to fix NCAA basketball games. How do they do it?

Well, prosecutors allege that fixers would recruit players promising massive payments in exchange for underperforming in their games. The fixers would then place bets worth millions against those players' teams. The indictment alleges that altogether, the scheme involved more than 39 players on more than 17 different teams who fixed more than 29 games with bribes ranging from 10 to $30,000 per game.

My next guest pleaded guilty to conspiracy charges and admitted to fixing games as a star player for Arizona State in 1994. At the time, it was the biggest point-shaving scandal in college basketball history. He is now an educator who teaches college athletes about gambling harm awareness.

And his story was featured in the Netflix documentary, "Bad Sport."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SMITH: Oh, yes, of course, I was nervous going into it, you know, but at the same time, I owed Benny some money. So, ain't no turning back.

UNKNOWN: He says to me, I'll do this, but I don't wanna lose. I said, man, you don't have to lose. Just don't win by more than I'm going to tell you to.

SMITH: Like, oh, really? So, you're telling me we can win a game and I can make money?

UNKNOWN: Yes. (Expletive) no brainer.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Stevin "Hedake" Smith joins me now. Stevin, it's good to see you. I'm glad to hear your perspective on this, as this is rocking the news. And we keep seeing these gambling scandals happen more and more.

I mean, the NCAA banned 10 players just last year for bets involving their teams. Why do you think this is becoming more common or has it been this way all along and people are now hip to it?

SMITH: No, it hasn't always been like this, unfortunately, you know, and I feel, you know, for those that are involved, you know, because, you know, yet I understand because I was, you know, once in that situation. And it's unfortunately because the NCAA, they are being proactive and, you know, educating players, you know, with Epic Global Solution.

[23:45:04]

That's, you know, why I'm so active trying to continue to go around and educate these young athletes.

COATES: Why do you think it is so enticing? Can you just describe the mindset that people might need to be in order to either be led into this, manipulated into doing it or seeking it out?

SMITH: I don't know, you have to understand that athletes are under incredible pressure, you know, stress and everything, and, you know, to perform and it's just a different situation, you understand?

Because I know the widespread, you know, the sporting business is very widespread and everything. And it's, the reality of it is that it's not going anywhere and we just need to educate our athletes.

COATES: You've said in the past that you ruined your future for less cash than you would have made your first week in the NBA. For many players who may have a similar background, who may have thought to themselves, this is a no-brainer.

What is it that is putting that pressure? Is it academics and the combination? Is it family, is it their schools, is it peers? What are you hearing from the athletes you speak to?

SMITH: What I'm hearing from the athletes that I'm speaking to is just, it's a lot going on with these athletes with the NIL money. It's pressure from family members. It's just a lot, you know, in today's society of basketball and athletics itself.

For me--

COATES: Go ahead, excuse me. Go ahead, Stevin.

SMITH: No, for me, I think the key is to educate them on gambling. COATES: I want you to listen to a part of what a U.S. attorney said

yesterday while announcing these charges, okay? Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVIT METCAFF, U.S. ATTORNEY: When criminals pollute the purity of sports by manipulating competition, it doesn't just imperil the integrity of sports betting markets, it imperils the integrity of sport itself and everything that sports represent to us, you know, hard work, determination, and fairness. And when that happens, the Department of Justice will step in to protect what is a sacred institution of American life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Do you agree that that might be the consequence of this behavior?

SMITH: Ms. Laura, to be honest with you, it's not about do I agree, it's about what situation that the athlete is in.

You don't know if the athlete has got caught up in some kind of gambling or if he's in debt. You know, you have to, no, for me, because I was once there, me, I got myself caught in a debt, gambling, chasing my losses and everything. And, you know, gambling is like one of the number one addiction.

COATES: Stevin Hedake Smith, thank you.

SMITH: Yes, ma'am, thank you.

COATES: Still ahead, a special Hollywood guest on this Friday night, actor Cary Elwes is with me on his brand new film, his recovery after the L.A. fires, and of course, his tribute to his friend, the late, great Rob Reiner.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:50:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COATES: My next guest has starred in more hits than you can even count, be it the title character in Mel Brooks' hilarious "Robin Hood: Men in Tights," a surgeon trapped in a deadly game in the horror classic, "Saw," and my personal favorite, Wesley, a.k.a. the dread pirate Robertson, Rob Reiner's "The Princess Bride." And that's just naming a few.

Well, tonight, I am pleased to inform you that actor Cary Elwes will be joining us and actor Cary Elwes is back in his latest film, "Dead Man's Wire" is the true story of the 1977 kidnapping of a mortgage broker by a man who thought he was cheated, prompting a dramatic 63- hour standoff with police.

It's out this weekend in theaters nationwide. Here's a look. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARY ELWES, AS DETECTIVE MICHAEL GRABLE IN "DEAD MAN'S WIRE": You sure they're saying it's Tony Kiritsis?

UNKNOWN: Apparently.

ELWES: Tony Kiritsis, Chatty Cathy from 8th and Rail?

UNKNOWN: That's what they're saying.

ELWES: With a shotgun?

UNKNOWN: Yes, sir.

ELWES: There's no way it's Tony.

Tony, (expletive), Tony Kiritsis, holy shit.

UNKNOWN: Hands or this trigger gets pulled. Stay back.

ELWES: It's all right, Tony. It's all right, I ain't armed.

Look, I ain't packing, man. No weapon. It's okay, Tony, it's me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: I'm joined now by the man himself, Cary Elwes, so glad to have you here. Welcome, my friend.

Look, this film is based on a wild true story, and you actually play the real-life detective, Michael Grable, who was caught right in the middle of this kidnapping, and of course, a massive media frenzy.

[23:55:02]

Tell me about what we can expect from the film, and you know, I really wanna know about you and your character in particular.

ELWES: First of all, thank you for having me, Laura. It's always a pleasure to join you.

Yes, it was a fun movie. It's Gus Van Sant directed it.

He hasn't made a movie in like seven years, so it was a thrill to get that call.

As you say, I play a real-life detective in the story. It's based on a real-life situation that happened in Indianapolis in 1977. This guy called Tony Kiritsis believed that his mortgage company was screwing him over, so he took matters into his own hands and kidnapped his broker and wired a shotgun to his neck and held him captive for 63 hours, and my character, Mike, knew Tony. They used to go to the same cop bar together, so he was the first one on the scene, and he helped diffuse the situation, and well, when you see the movie, you'll see what happens, yes. COATES: Well, if you're in it, everyone wants to see it.

You know, there's been a personal connection so many people have felt to you throughout the years, but also, you know, you shot this movie shortly after losing your home in the Palisades fire. That was unbelievably a year ago.

You told "People Magazine" it felt good to be somebody else while you were playing this character. Pure escapism after all you and so many people in your area had been through. How have you and your family been holding up over this past, what must have been a difficult year?

ELWES: Yes, it was not a great year for us. You know, we consider ourselves some of the lucky ones. You know, some of my neighbors who are elderly, didn't have insurance and now living out of their cars or relying on companies to get them to move.

So, you know, we were able to rent a house, and so we actually consider ourselves among the lucky ones, Laura. But yes, it was definitely a devastating blow to us, but also to our community, you know.

Landscape in Southern California, from Palisades to Malibu, it's a different world. It's very sad, but I'm hopeful. I'm the kind of person, I'm optimistic always.

I try to look at the glass being half full, Laura. I know you do too. And so I keep up my hopes, yes.

COATES: Well, I mean, there's just love that continues to pour around everyone, including yourself and the community. And there's a reason people are pulling so hard for the people in your community and beyond, because you have cared so deeply about so many people. And I hope you still feel that love.

Yes, fans have fallen in love with you for a number of reasons, including your character. I'm just going to put him right there, "Wesley and the Princess Bride." You know it's one of my all-time favorite movies, and I am resisting the urge to quote "everything right back to the star of it."

It is one of the most beloved movies from the late Rob Reiner, which feels odd just to even say the late Rob Reiner. You wrote the most touching tribute to him on Instagram.

Quote, "He used to say, 'once the movie is released, it belongs to other people. But while you are making it, that's your time on the planet, so you wanna make it good.' And boy, was my time with him on the Princess Bride beyond great."

Could you share one of your fondest memories of shooting that film with this unbelievable icon?

ELWES: Yes, it was a terrible shock to us. You know, we obviously became very close with both Rob and his wife, Michelle, and his family. And yes, it's still devastating, I'm still trying to process it, we don't know.

Yes, one of my favorite memories from Rob was, he used to say to me often before a take, he would go, remember to have fun.

And that's just the essence of who he was. He was all about the joy. He was just a sweet guy. Not only a talented artist, but just a sweet man, just a gentle human being.

And I miss him dearly, and I had so much more to learn from him. And yes, it was very sad.

COATES: Well, his loss, maybe to put it best, inconceivable. Cary Elwes, I'm so glad to see you and so excited to see your art continuing in action and know that you're doing so well. Thank you.

ELWES: Always a joy. Thank you, Laura, I appreciate you. Thank you.

COATES: Thank you all for watching. "The Story Is with Elex Michaelson" starts right now.