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Laura Coates Live

Trump and Homan Send Mixed Signals; Trump Defends Gabbard; Banfield Testifies in Murder Trial. Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired January 29, 2026 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[23:00:00]

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR AND SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: His sons are suing the IRS and the Treasury Department for $10 billion. They claim that the government failed to protect their personal and corporate tax information when a former contractor leaked the records to the press. That contractor was sentenced to five years in prison for that. Now, in a statement, Trump's legal team called the contractor a -- quote -- "rogue, politically-motivated employee," adding, "President Trump continues to hold those who wrong America and Americans accountable."

Thank you very much for watching "NewsNight." "Laura Coates Live" starts right now.

LAURA COATES, CNN HOST AND SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Tonight, Trump and Homan are sending mixed signals. So, was I staying or going in Minnesota? Senator Amy Klobuchar, who's now running for Minnesota governor, joins me tonight. Plus, you heard it right, the director of national intelligence, Tulsi Gabbard, involved in the FBI's seizure of 2020 ballots in Georgia. Why the DNI's presence is raising some serious questions about the investigation. And a shocking cross- examination in the au pair affair trial. Defendant Brendan Banfield gives his account of what happened the night his wife was killed for the very first time. Tonight on "Laura Coates Live."

Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, we got a plot twist happening. Just when you thought the Trump administration was admitting it has lost the messaging battle of the ICE surge in Minnesota, President Trump just said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Will you be pulling back immigration enforcement agents out of Minnesota?

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: No, we want to keep our country safe. We'll do whatever we can to keep our country safe.

UNKNOWN (voice-over): So, you're not pulling back?

TRUMP: No, no. Not at all.

(END VIDEO CLIP) COATES: So, no pullback. And with the notion of a pullback, it wasn't pulled out of thin air. After all, exhibit A, border czar Tom Homan this very morning in Minneapolis.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOM HOMAN, BORDER CZAR: This is a commonsense cooperation that allows us to draw down on the number of people we have here. Yes, I said it, draw down. Matter of fact, I have staff from CBP and from ICE working on a drawdown plan. My main focus now is drawdown. The drawdown will come soon depending on when this actually -- I see this in play.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: A drawdown with caveats about cooperation. But, still, you heard him and he said it. I just said it. A drawdown. Pullback, drawdown. I mean, this is some kind of attempted semantics.

And then there's exhibit B. What they're actually telling ICE officers themselves. Reuters news agency got a hold of an internal guidance to ICE officers in Minnesota. You know what it says? Do not communicate or engage with agitators. And yes, it is in all caps. The memo also said something else. Quote -- "We are moving to targeted enforcement of aliens with a criminal history. This includes arrests, not just convictions." And another sentence, in all caps, all targets must have a criminal nexus.

So, after weeks of aggressive tactics against protesters, the attention of U.S. citizens, and accusations of racial profiling, the message inside the agency is calm down. Well, then, there are the signs from Trump himself, like his cabinet meeting today, and this takes you to sort of read the room that you weren't in, because you know these things often go on for hours. They're full of praise. You've seen it from his entire cabinet.

But this one, this one was different. It was a brisk one hour and 20 minutes. He actually skipped over several members. And you know who we didn't hear from? We didn't hear a peep from the DHS secretary, Kristi Noem. His explanation?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We're not going to go through the whole tape because the last time we had a press conference, it lasted for three hours and some people said, he closed his eyes. Look, it got pretty boring.

(LAUGHTER)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: At the end of the cabinet meeting, no questions.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Thank you very much, everybody.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: I have some questions. I know Kaitlan did. There's another tell. Tonight, the White House and Republicans appear to have bent to demands from Democrats all to avoid a government shutdown. The deal pulls DHS funding out of the bigger spending package and only funds DHS, get this, for two more weeks while both sides fight over bigger ICE reforms.

[23:05:07]

Look, we got to be honest about how we got here and really where here is when it comes to the shutdown. But protesters in Minneapolis have been in the streets for literally weeks. And that backlash went national after Renee Good and Alex Pretti were killed by federal agents. You know, poll after poll was showing what? It showed Americans think that Trump has gone too far in his immigration crackdown. So, is this really the turning point? Well, for residents of Minneapolis, the verdict seems to be, well, I believe a drawdown or pullback when they see one.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN: We're kind of prepping for a long game. You know, it's more of a marathon than it is a sprint at this point.

UNKNOWN: In my neighborhood, there are more ICE officers out today while -- while Homan was speaking.

UNKNOWN: I don't believe he's going to actually treat people with respect and dignity. I think -- he still said he was going to go and take as many people as we needed to.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: I want to begin with Democratic Senator Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota who today formally announced her run for governor of my home state. Senator, welcome.

SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D-MN): Thank you.

COATES: I want to talk to you about that in just a moment.

KLOBUCHAR: Sure.

COATES: I am really glad you're here because, as you know, Minnesota continues to be in the spotlight. I, this day, began with Tom Homan saying there will be an eventual drawdown, his phrasing, and ended with the president saying he's not going to pull back agents. What is your understanding of whether or not we're any closer to seeing agents leave Minnesota?

KLOBUCHAR: What I know for certain is that a number of the border control agents have left. There were 800 of them. But there are still 3,000 ICE agents in our state. There are still raids going on. I have no idea why he didn't announce today that this drawdown would begin and that they would continue to focus on fraud investigations or something that they had originally said was a reason.

So, I was -- I literally could not believe that the president said this tonight after trying to change the tone, trying to deescalate. But maybe I should believe it because this shouldn't have happened in the first place.

And I think you know what has happened. The killings of two innocent citizens in Minnesota, two of three of the fatalities in the city of Minneapolis have been committed by federal agents since the beginning of the year.

But then there's also all the other innocents. The citizens who've been thrown to the ground or put in a car yelling, I was born here, I was born here, taken a few blocks, dumped out, brought to a detention center. Those stories aren't always being told because there are so many of them. Or the Hmong man dragged out of his house, the elder, in nothing but his underwear, when they figured out an hour later they were looking for someone who was already in jail, that certainly wasn't him. Two-year-old, five-year-old with Spiderman backpack. And it is just really taking such a toll on the people of our state.

And I'm -- you know, 50,000, I was there, 50,000 Minnesotans marched peacefully on a Friday. And the next morning, six federal agents, border control couldn't handle one guy with a cellphone and shot him in the back.

So, it is a tinderbox. And I'm just so proud of those that are still being peaceful, and they must stay peaceful in what is a very difficult, difficult situation.

COATES: And there were other states who were watching exactly what was happening in Minnesota and wondering if they and their constituents and citizens would be next to experience this.

And Maine was the next place that we heard of publicly going to. The Republican senator, Susan Collins, though, of that very state of Maine, suggested today that she was able to get ICE to stop enhanced operations in her state after speaking with Kristi Noem. Do you have any idea about why that would be the case, why Maine was treated the way it was versus what's happening in Minnesota?

KLOBUCHAR: This has been -- our state has been singled out. We're not the only ones. Other states have been as well. And to me, that is not how law enforcement should be handled. Minnesota, we know, is the center of America's heartbreak, but I hope people also see it as the center of America's hope and courage. If they were to say to our police chief in Minneapolis, who's an incredible professional, and say this, and they have, we'll work with you on these violent offenders.

[23:09:58]

Our Department of Corrections head has made that very clear. They've actually boasted the DHS about those that have been taken from custody that are violent offenders. And all of that has happened. But to them, this is some kind of a shock and awe situation that they just keep plastering across the nation. And so, my hope here is that they will de-escalate. But given what the president said tonight, given that he's the boss, there is no sign that that is happening.

COATES: Well, there are signs from Capitol Hill that -- obviously, there's a funding deal to avoid the shutdown. It includes funding DHS for two more weeks to give time for Congress to negotiate restriction on immigration enforcement. Do you support it?

KLOBUCHAR: You know, we are in a unique situation in Minnesota. Senator Smith and myself, and I cannot at this time, when the president has just said that he's not going to draw down 3,000 ICE agents, support an extension.

That being said, I really do believe that this has been a sea change, that we were able to -- the Democratic leadership was able to separate out the ICE funding bill from the other parts of the funding, and that there is an opportunity in the next two weeks to negotiate an overhaul to this agency.

An overhaul is more than needed. They have too much money. They should stop conducting these surges. The training down to 47 days in the name of the 47th president is absurd when you look at the power that they have out on the streets.

The fact that they don't have mandatory body cameras, the masks, the bounty system, which is part of the reason we believe they are arresting these innocent citizens, detaining them, and then they get a bonus or a bounty, not using a warrant for ramming into people's houses, like the Hmong elder I mentioned, all of these things, following police procedures that other departments must follow, having accountability and transparent investigations instead of shutting out a professional organization like the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension, all of these has to change.

COATES: Senator, you mentioned that you are running for governor of Minnesota. I am curious how much of your campaign will be motivated by the immigration crackdown issue that we are seeing there.

KLOBUCHAR: There are so many issues right now in this nation and so many issues in my state. So, I really come at this, out in a moment, which we all know is a moment like no other. And I believe I'm someone, based on my experience as a prosecutor, based on my experience in the U.S. Senate, who is able to take things on and stay on my ground, but then fix what's broken, fix what needs to be fixed in state government.

I really want to be a transformative governor. I think that's really important right now as you look at the affordability issue for people with housing, getting more housing going, child care, making health care more affordable. These things are really exciting as we look at the next frontier for Minnesota.

And when you see our citizens standing up, they inspire me every single day. People bringing people food. So, of course, this is going to be part of what's motivating me to do this. But there's a whole lot more. Minnesota is this incredible state. We brought the world everything from the pacemaker to the post-it notes. You know that, Laura. You grow up there. And we have the spirit. One of the highest voter turnouts, if not the highest voter turnout. Credible levels of volunteerism. It is a great state.

And so, I feel like my job here is to stand my ground, to fix things to make it better, and to really improve people's lives. So, I'm pretty excited about this, and I know it's born out of a very difficult time in our state, but that makes it all the more important. And I just keep telling people, don't look down, don't look away from each other no matter what happens. Look at each other, look to the North Star. And if we believe that good can prevail, it will.

COATES: Senator Amy Klobuchar, thank you.

KLOBUCHAR: Thank you.

COATES: And we actually have breaking news on that deal to avert a shutdown. I want to get straight to CNN's Manu Raju on Capitol Hill. Manu, what are you learning?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Laura, the Senate is gone for the evening. They had hoped to pass this bill to avert a government shutdown tonight. But because of objections from senators, they were unable to reach an agreement for a quick vote.

Remember in the rules of the Senate, it requires all 100 senators to agree to do pretty much just about anything, including scheduling votes. And if one senator objects, that means you got to run through the process, hear his or her objection, try to resolve those objections. They were unable to do that.

[23:15:00]

Some senators, like Senator Lindsey Graham, was furious about what's in this proposal, did not give his consent to move ahead. And as a result, the Senate will reconvene tomorrow, just hours before the shutdown deadline, which is at midnight on Friday. And the House is on a session. So, it all points to the possibility that there could be a shutdown, perhaps a very brief one, but a shutdown nonetheless.

Now, remember what this deal is. Not only would it fund the entire federal government, mostly federal government through September, like major federal agencies like the Pentagon, but it would include two weeks of federal spending for the Department of Homeland Security.

That was the big concession the White House made, recognizing the political blowback after everything that's happening in Minneapolis to allow Democrats to help negotiate a deal to change how ICE agents are being deployed across the country, change the practices that are being used in these cities. That is what has caused enormous concern among Republican senators. So, this deal that Donald Trump cut with Senate Democrat Chuck Schumer is getting some blowback from folks on the right. Now, the question is ultimately to be, will there be enough of those senators who decide to drag this out? Will there be one senator who decides to drag this out? Will there be enough blowback in the House to prevent this from becoming law? That seems unlikely.

There is still an expectation, Laura, that this will pass Congress, but a very bumpy ride just to get this funding bill through. And then the big negotiation will come in a couple of weeks. Can they get a deal to change how ICE is operating? Another huge complication in the weeks ahead.

COATES: Wow. Manu, thank you so much. Keep us posted as always. Up next, was it premature for Secretary Noem to say that Alex Pretti was going to massacre law enforcement? New tonight, Noem is actually answering that question for the first time. I'm bringing her answer. Plus, the Hennepin County attorney with an update tonight on the investigation into the agents who killed Alex Pretti. Mary Moriarty will join me next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:20:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COATES: Tonight, criminal investigators in Minnesota say they have hope that the Trump administration will share evidence in the shooting death of Alex Pretti. The Bureau of Criminal Apprehension says it has talked with border czar, Tom Homan, since he arrived in Minneapolis. But there's still no cooperation yet. Only DHS is investigating. And remember, DHS Secretary Kristi Noem was among those who claimed Pretti was going to -- quote -- "massacre law enforcement." Well, tonight, DHS Secretary Kristi Noem was asked about that on Fox News.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS HOST: You know, was that statement premature?

KRISTI NOEM, UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF HOMELAND SECURITY: Well, Sean, I know you realized that that situation was very chaotic and that we were being relayed information from on the ground, from CBP agents and officers that were there. We were using the best information we had at the time, seeking to be transparent with the American people and get them what we knew to be true on the ground.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: So, was that a yes or no to the premature nature of the statement? Remember that federal agents blocked state investigators from the Pretti crime scene, a move that hindered their efforts to gather information that could lead to charges.

And joining me now is the D.A. who could lead any eventual prosecution should she conclude that it's necessary. Hennepin County District Attorney Mary Moriarty is with us now. Mary, thank you very much for joining us. I know you're very busy with the work that you continue to do. What do you make of Kristi Noem's comments this evening?

MARY MORIARTY, HENNEPIN COUNTY ATTORNEY: I think she should come out and actually say her comments were inappropriate. Everybody knows that, especially, as she describes it, that the scene was chaotic and so, of course, you're getting information that may not be accurate.

Even though we're all trying to seek transparency, it's really irresponsible to say things about the victim of a homicide without really knowing what you're talking about. Any time that there is some community member shot and killed, the best course of action is to say, we will do a complete and thorough investigation, we will be transparent, we'll tell you what our investigation reveals, and we'll tell you what our decision is and why we made that decision.

COATES: And, of course, that might be in due time, which will be very unpopular with the community. They may want a quicker timeline and turnaround. But the prudence for prosecutors all across this country normally requires that that be delayed as long as it takes and you'll get the answer when you do.

But the Bureau of Criminal Apprehension, they seem to be hopeful that it can reach some kind of agreement with the federal government to share evidence in the Alex Pretti shooting. Now, even if that evidence is shared, do you trust that they will, in fact, share everything that you would be needing?

MORIARTY: I don't really trust anything about this federal government given what has happened in the three shootings that we've had in our community. That is the death of Renee Good, the shooting of a man in the leg on January 14th, and Alex Pretti.

In each of those cases, the federal government has blocked the BCA, that's our state Bureau of Criminal Apprehension, from accessing the crime scene. In the case of Alex Pretti, we obtained a search warrant signed by a judge to allow the BCA to enter that scene, and that wasn't honored.

[23:25:00]

We had to go to court to file a lawsuit and ask for a TRO, a temporary restraining order, to ask the court to order the federal government to preserve and not alter the evidence, which is a really unusual move, as you know. I mean, the presumption should be that the federal government would never do such a thing.

But we've seen them alter. You know, we saw there was a picture of a person who was arrested in a protest at the church, and they digitally altered her picture to make people think she was actually crying when she was not, and the White House seemed proud of that.

And so, I -- you know, I don't trust anything until I actually see it. I'm glad the BCA is talking to them. I knew that they were doing that. And if we get -- we get whatever we get, but we are going forward with our investigation with the BCA. We're collecting a lot of information through our public portal, through witness interviews. And I'm feeling confident that we will have enough information to be able to make decision, but I can't put a timeline on that.

COATES: Well, let's start with step one in an investigation. Do you have the name of the agents or at least think you're getting close to obtaining them?

MORIARTY: We do not, which would be another good first step if the federal government would actually give us the names or give the BCA the names of those two agents. I do think it's very hard to --

COATES: Just so I'm clear, are they telling you absolutely nothing? I mean, that's one -- I'm sorry to cut you off, but I just want to understand not having the names. Are they telling you can't have them? Are they giving you the runaround and withholding it? Are they giving you just numbers that don't correspond to a particular identity or are you just getting crickets?

MORIARTY: Crickets. And I keep getting -- I was asked a question the other day about had we seen the body cam that apparently was worn by the federal agents. We had no idea they were wearing body cam. And so, everything that we are hearing, including that apparently these two agents were put on some kind of administrative leave, which they should have been right after this happened, we haven't heard a single thing. Anything that we hear is really coming through the media.

COATES: And yet every good investigation knows time is of the essence. Fresh memories, the fleeting evidence.

MORIARTY: Yes.

COATES: Mary Moriarty, the work is certainly ahead. Thank you.

MORIARTY: Thank you so much.

COATES: Up next, why was Trump's director of national intelligence on the scene of yesterday's FBI search of 2020 ballots in Fulton County, Georgia? Tulsi Gabbard's presence raising new questions and alarm about what might be going on. I'll get into all that and more with the former attorney general of the United States, Eric Holder, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:30:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COATES: Tonight, the FBI raid at the Georgia election office is raising even more alarms after cameras caught the director of national intelligence, Tulsi Gabbard, on the scene during the search.

"The Wall Street Journal" reports the nation's top spy has been scrutinizing for months the result of the 2020 election, seeking for possible crimes. In particular, President Trump's years-long claim that foreign governments interfered in his 2020 loss.

But the question remains, why was Gabbard involved in the seizure of 700 boxes worth of ballots in Fulton County? Well, the president says this is why.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: She is working very hard, trying to keep the election safe. She has done a very good job.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: This signals a start of something larger, doesn't it? Well, here to weigh in, former U.S. attorney general under President Obama, Eric Holder. General Holder, thank you for being here. As you well know, the office of the DNI, they say that federal law gives Gabbard the authority to lead counter intel matters related to election security. But do you have concerns about her involvement here, particularly even being on scene?

ERIC HOLDER, FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL UNDER PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA, CHAIRMAN OF THE NATIONAL DEMOCRATIC REDISTRICTING COMMITTEE: Oh, I have huge concerns. The director of national intelligence heads agencies that look out from our borders into foreign nations, look at our enemies, those who would do harm to the nation. The director of national intelligence has no role in domestic activities.

And what I fear most here is that this is not really an examination of what happened in 2020. It's laying the basis for perhaps an executive order of some sort to try to have an impact on the 2026 election. I mean, I think if this election is held fairly, Democrats are going to be just fine. But they are trying to do mid-cycle redistricting. They're going to do their usual voter suppression. I suspect you might see the deployment of troops in certain areas.

And now, this is another front that they potentially are going to open up on the basis of this investigation that is being apparently run by a United States attorney in Missouri, sending the director of national intelligence to Georgia to look at an election that was held almost six years ago. I mean, go figure this out. It makes no sense, but it's alarming and it is extremely dangerous.

COATES: I mean, just the way you have mapped that out, almost all of government, all hands-on-deck approach to possibly impacting the future elections.

[23:35:04]

And yet this is, they say, focused on 2020. The statute of limitations period, as you know, would really run on most claims related to it, except if there were some accusation of a conspiracy. But you've got Democratic attorneys general across the country who are pushing back on a number of things, including Pam Bondi's demands for state voter rolls. And you've got at least 11 states that have complied with DOJ. But do you see the request for these state voter rolls as part of that larger plan you've identified?

HOLDER: Yes. I think it's all part of a constellation to come up with a way in which you make the '26 election unfair. Republicans are scared of the '26 midterms. They know that the big, beautiful bill is unpopular. They know that the way in which they've conducted immigration enforcement in the United States is wildly unpopular. They know that they haven't done a good job with regard to the economy. They have no basis to believe that they're going to do well in '26.

And so, when they say that, you know, we're -- the way we will solve the problem, the interaction that we've had in Minnesota, is for you to give us information about the fraud case that's out there and to somehow deal with the protesters, but also significantly turn over your voter rolls.

Now, what does immigration enforcement have to do with turning over voter rolls? It is all part of a plan in some form or fashion to impact the '26 election that they know they're in danger of losing because their policies, the things that they have put in place, are ineffective and wildly unpopular.

COATES: Well, let's talk about at least one increasingly so less popular decision, and that's the tactics in the immigration crackdown that are being used. The DOJ is not actively pursuing a federal criminal probe into the deaths of Renee Good and Alex Pretti. How troubled are you by those decisions?

HOLDER: Let me make this really, really clear. That is a disgrace. It is dangerous. It's inconsistent with the way justice departments under Republicans and Democrats have conducted themselves.

This is just a normal thing that should happen. A federal officer is involved in the shooting of a civilian. There would almost inevitably be a federal probe handled by the civil rights division, the criminal section of the civil rights division, in addition to working with the local U.S. attorney. Instead, we hear people in the federal government now calling the person who was killed, Mr. Pretti, a domestic terrorist, talking about Ms. Good and saying that she was, in fact, a domestic terrorist, and saying that we are not going to do any investigations whatsoever to see whether or not there were, at a minimum, tactics that were used inappropriately or, more likely, whether federal laws were violated, and then, as your prior guest said, not sharing information with the local prosecutors is something that is disturbing as well.

These things typically -- the only argument usually have between the feds and the locals is who's going to go first. Everybody shares evidence, everybody works together, and then you make the determination about who has the greater interest in bringing the case. This is not what we're seeing from this administration. They're going after their critics and protecting those people who might have done wrong.

COATES: You know uniquely so the scope of the work of the Department of Justice. But you also know the extraordinary visibility of what is happening right now and the decisions not to engage in the probes that you've identified. What does this do to the credibility of the Department of Justice as a whole, not just today, but in perpetuity?

HOLDER: Yes. I mean, come 2029, when this nightmare is over, there is going to have to be a substantial effort to rebuild the credibility of the United States Department of Justice, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, and all of the federal investigative agencies.

The American people are not blind. I mean, they see what's going on here, that these folks are going after people who are their critics, they are protecting people who work for them, they're making this on the basis of politics, not on the basis of the facts and the law. That will have a long-term negative impact.

When some FBI agent is testifying in a drug case in some state, people in a jury are going to look at that FBI agent, unconnected to all the stuff that's going on now, and wonder, is this FBI agent really telling me the truth?

And that's the kind of thing that we're going to have to deal with come 2029. I don't think that it's going to be something we're going to be able to deal with as long as these people run the Justice Department and as long as the Justice Department is as subservient to the White House as this Justice Department is.

[23:40:07]

COATES: Attorney General Eric Holder, thank you.

HOLDER: Thank you.

COATES: Up next tonight, if you're trying to buy a home, own a home, have children who have dreams of buying a home, wait till you hear what the president said today.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COATES: President Trump, a real estate honcho. That's where he made his bread and butter, right? So, you can understand why he turned his focus to home prices during the first cabinet meeting of the year. But you will be surprised at what concerned him the most.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: People that own their homes, we're going to keep them wealthy. We're going to keep those prices up.

[23:44:58]

We're not going to destroy the value of their homes so that somebody that didn't work very hard can buy a home. I don't want to drive housing prices down. I want to drive housing prices up for people that own their homes. And they can be assured that's what's going to happen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Now, Trump says he still wants to make it easier for people to buy a home. But Americans know it's hard to buy a home when the average price of an existing one is 414,000 bucks and the average salary is 62,000 bucks. I mean, the math doesn't add up.

With me now, former New Jersey Democratic congressman, Tom Malinowski, who is running for Congress again, and former New York councilman and co-chair for the Trump campaign, Joe Borelli. Good to have both of you guys here. I want to be with you, Joe, on this because, you know, how does higher home prices, how would that help Trump voters?

JOE BORELLI, FORMER NEW YORK CO-CHAIR, TRUMP CAMPAIGN: You know, when I first heard about this, I thought this was going to be one of those things where Trump says something and the other side automatically argues the other way because Trump said it. And that's basically what's happening. The truth is two-thirds of Americans own their own home. It is their single largest asset. It is how they pass their wealth to the next generation.

COATES: Two-thirds of Americans?

BORELLI: Two-thirds of Americans. In fact, I even looked it up for New Jersey for the good congressman here. It's almost 80 percent in New Jersey. Residents own their own homes. It is their largest asset they have. It is their life savings.

So, I don't think trying to devalue the source of people's wealth is how you make housing more affordable. In fact, you know, if you look at devaluing the cost of housing and having mortgages that go underwater, that's how we got into the financial crisis of 2008.

President Trump has been laser-focused. Even his critics are saying he's too hard on Jerome Powell, too hard on Jerome Powell. He's trying to get mortgage rates lower. They just bought 200 billion in securities held by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac in an effort to drive mortgage rates down. They got it down, from 7 percent down to 6 percent. That's how you make housing more affordable.

COATES: Well, Tom, what about this statement? I mean, you talk about devaluing. How about really demeaning? What did he say? Somebody that didn't work very hard can buy a home. What was that about?

TOM MALINOWSKI, NEW JERSEY HOUSE CANDIDATE, FORMER NEW JERSEY REPRESENTATIVE: Yes. Somebody that didn't work very hard is a young person buying their first home. That's what we're talking about here.

COATES: They do work hard, as you're saying.

MALINOWSKI: Of course, they do. They're just younger. They haven't amassed wealth yet, but they want the American dream, they want to buy that starter home.

And, you know, I've got a lot of older homeowners in my district who've sent their kids off to college and who wish that maybe when their kids are in their 30s, they're starting to work, they can actually come back and live in suburban New Jersey. But, you know, those same homeowners will tell me, I couldn't afford to buy the house that I live in today if I was 30 or 40 years old.

So, look, I want to be fair here. No one is saying that we want property values to plummet for existing homeowners, but we do need more affordable housing for people who are buying their first home or just renting. COATES: Do you see disconnect between or some reason why you think the president is focusing on this issue as part of that cabinet meeting as opposed to really what has been really ruling the day in terms of the nation's focus, which is the immigration crackdown?

MALINOWSKI: I think he's a little confused and doesn't want to talk about the retreat that we're hopefully seeing.

COATES: He says there won't be one.

MALINOWSKI: Well, we've seen the instructions that ICE agents have received in Minnesota, which suggests that there is a recognition that police state tactics in an American city are not a good idea. So, I guess he doesn't want to talk about that.

COATES: Does he? Should he?

BORELLI: I think the president would even concede the point that he has won a change of direction, right? Certainly, pulling back Bovino from Minnesota, replacing him with Tom Homan, indicates that the president himself wants to see a change of direction there. I think that's a positive thing.

You have some concessions made by leaders in Minnesota saying that now, suddenly, the people in the jails and state prisons will now comply with some of the ICE detainers. That's a positive step. I think that's how we de-escalate. We allow federal law enforcement to do their job and have that compliance and help from local police department. That's how this is solved. That's why there are 10 times as many ICE detainers in arrest in Texas as there are in Minnesota without incident. It's because the people in Texas are complying with ICE detainers at the state and municipal level.

COATES: Well, part of the, as you say, with protest is the overwhelming number of agents that are in Minnesota, Minneapolis, certainly compared to say the presence of ICE agents, even border patrol in Texas. But, you know, Trump is, as you mentioned, the idea, is it a pullback? Is it a drawdown? You heard Homan saying it's a drawdown, then Trump saying it's not going to be a pullback. I want to play for you what some of Trump supporters had to say as to their thoughts on why he shouldn't back down. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVE BANNON, FORMER WHITE HOUSE CHIEF STRATEGIST: It's quite simple. In the tug of war, right, just look through it. We have to hold the line. There can be no de-escalation at all. You don't need to bring down the temperature.

[23:50:00]

Raise the temperature. Put them under pressure. They're the ones that are cracking. They're fine. The whole nation sees that the polling is still there.

(END VIDEO CLIP) COATES: What is he seeing that the polls are not?

BORELLI: Well, the president -- I mean, I think we can all stipulate the president ran on two issues. He ran on affordability and immigration. And he won. And I think he has a mandate to deal with immigration at the border. So, you know, Steve Bannon is always going to be someone who likes to push the envelope. That's just his nature. But he's not entirely wrong.

I said before, you had concessions by Minnesota. They have now conceded that they will begin honoring ICE detainers in most places. Hennepin County, no. But most places in Minnesota, you saw some concessions honoring (ph) ICE. That's all they want. Again, going back to what I said before, Texas, 10 times the amount of ICE detainers in arrest, zero incidents, because that's the -- that's the model that most states should apply.

COATES: I think they weren't saying they would not honor lawful orders, but they would not relinquish their role as a sanctuary city. A little bit of a distinction to talk about. Real quick.

MALINOWSKI: Yes. Look, I can say, in my community, I want local law enforcement to protect me and my family and my home from violent crime and from property crime. I do not want them diverted to chasing Uber drivers who overstayed their visa. This is a public safety issue for me and for people in my community. It's about defending the rightful role of law enforcement in protecting society. And I don't want immigrants in my community to be afraid of talking to the police. So, that's, you know, in New Jersey. And I hope, in Minnesota, that position is going to hold.

COATES: We'll see. Tom, Joe, thank you both so much. Up next, I'll take you back inside the trial I've been covering. Brendan Banfield, the husband charged with plotting with his au pair to kill his wife and a stranger, back on the stand today and delivering his version of events for the first time for this jury. You got to hear it, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:55:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COATES: Well, the defense rested its case in the au pair affair murder trial and the jury has now heard two very different accounts of what happened.

On the one hand, you have the prosecution star witness, the au pair, who testified against Banfield that he was the mastermind of a plot to kill his wife and pin her murder on another man he lured to their home. Why? Well, she says she was having an affair with Banfield and that he wanted his wife out of the picture.

But then there's Banfield's side of the story. Today, he took the stand again and testified that he loved his wife. The man he shot really did stab her. He was just trying to save her. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRENDAN BANFIELD, DEFENDANT: I was extremely terrified. I don't know that I've ever been more panicked in my life.

UNKNOWN (voice-over): And why did you shoot Joseph Ryan on February 24th?

BANFIELD: He was attacking Christine. He was -- because he was stabbing her. I mean, I wish I shot him earlier.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: With me now, former state attorney for Palm Beach County, Dave Aronberg. Good to see you. What do you think? Is jury going to believe the au pair or him?

DAVE ARONBERG, FORMER STATE ATTORNEY, PALM BEACH COUNTY: I hope they believe the au pair. She has every reason to lie. She got a sweetheart deal from the prosecutors. But her story is corroborated by the facts. This guy, Mr. Lothario (ph), who is a serial cheater, he's also a liar. He lied throughout his testimony, and he does in a very monotone -- not believable tone that I think the jury is going to reject. So, I'm hoping for a guilty verdict.

COATES: You don't think that the au pair, as she has been essentially cast in the light of the Jezebel, the hand that rocks the cradle, wanting to replace the wife, and now has that deal, you don't think that the jury might see her differently?

ARONBERG: Well, maybe so, but they're in it together, right? This is the latest of his affairs. And this one, he fell in love with. He wanted to start a new family. In fact, when investigators came to the home, all the pictures of his wife, Christine, have been replaced by the au pair. So, I guess people grieve in different ways, but this was a plan set up. They had talked about naming their children together. So, he likes to frame it as this is an affair that meant nothing to me. Really, he's a liar.

COATES: Well, we'll see how the jury sees it that way, if they do. But he also had a kind of a -- I don't know if I call it an alibi, but he says where he was actually going on the day of the killing. He said that he had an important meeting with a manager at 9:30 in the morning. But in the rebuttal case, the prosecution actually called his then supervisor who said, mm-mm, listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Did you have any plans for the morning of February 24th, 2023?

THOMAS PATRICK SMITH, WITNESS, BRENDAN BANFIELD'S THEN-ACTING SUPERVISOR: I did. I was in Baltimore on unrelated undercover operation on that morning.

UNKNOWN (voice-over): Were you scheduled to meet with Mr. Banfield? SMITH: I was not.

UNKNOWN (voice-over): And again, I'm sorry, where was Juliette, his other supervisor?

SMITH: She was out of the country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: Obviously trying to undermine his statement that he had no idea anything was going on. He was going about his day and was shocked to hear his au pair called him and said something was wrong. Undermining his credibility or not?

ARONBERG: Yes. Here's the supervisor who said that he lied on the stand. Also, he was at a McDonald's, this is the defendant, where he got the call. And, you know, it's too bad, but the coincidence is he got the call while he was in the men's room, in the bathroom, that's when he got the call, so that there are no cameras there to watch this conversation. He was in the one place inside the McDonald's where he could not be recorded. I think that's more than a coincidence.

COATES: What about the fact that there is no DNA of Banfield on the knife that was found on the scene? Does that give some seed of reasonable doubt?

ARONBERG: Yes, that's possible. But remember, there's an expert who testified that the blood evidence, the blood that was on the male victim, Mr. Ryan, was transported there. It was not split spatter. It was taken, likely, by the defendant and put on him to stage a crime scene.

[00:00:01]

That's why the 911 call happened 13 minutes after the incident.

COATES: I'll see what the closing arguments say tomorrow. It's going to be a very important day. And then it goes to the jury, and they will have to decide. Good to see you, Dave. Thank you so much.

ARONBERG: Thank you, Laura.

COATES: Thank you all for watching. "The Story Is with Elex Michaelson" starts now.