Return to Transcripts main page
Laura Coates Live
Trump's Election Demands Now Entering The Threat Stage; Democratic Party Grappling With Rise Of Democratic Socialists; Christopher Nolan's "The Odyssey" Opens To Rave Reviews. Aired 11p-12a ET
Aired July 17, 2026 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[23:00:00]
SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR AND SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We're at cnn.com/abby. The states -- OK, this is one of them. The states run their elections, not the federal government. A point being made there by one of the viewers who has been listening to this debate over, you know, state elections and people in the states getting potentially fined or worse if they don't follow all of the laws that the Trump administration is very focusing on.
All right, I think we're done here because we're hungry. Thank you so much for watching "Newsnight." Tomorrow morning, be sure to catch "Table for Five" at 7 and 10 a.m. Eastern here on CNN. "Laura Coates Live" starts right now.
LAURA COATES, CNN HOST AND SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Tonight, the DHS secretary tells state officials, get on board with the president's election changes or face jail time. How far will they actually go? Plus, Governor Jared Polis tonight live with me to share his headline- making warning about the rise of socialism within his party. And later on, this Friday, how Christopher Nolan's "The Odyssey" conquered the MAGA critics and the box office. Tonight on "Laura Coates Live."
Well, my opening statement tonight, what the DHS is doing right now ain't going to cut it. Homeland Security Secretary Markwayne Mullin is making a big threat. He's building it on a claim that President Trump made in his primetime speech just last night. And here's what he's saying could happen to state officials who don't fall in line with Trump's election demands.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARKWAYNE MULLIN, SECRETARY, UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY: If the election officials, once we gave them the information they need to secure their elections, and they chose not to, then those individuals can also be held accountable by fines, by penalties, and even depending on how far it goes, prison time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: That's a pretty serious threat. And when you're throwing around the idea of criminal prosecution, well, you better be able to back it up with facts because facts are what this whole thing will hinge on if it ever did end up in a courtroom.
And here's the problem: Mullin and Trump claim more than 250,000 non- citizens are illegally registered to vote in four states. But the numbers they're citing, they aren't verified. Mullin's own department says so. And so, does he, by the way, in writing. If you knew for sure they were accurate, you wouldn't be using words like these: "Potential" in a DHS post, "preliminary" in a DHS letter to Pennsylvania, "may be" in the same letter. Mullin hedged it in writing. Qualified. Unsure. Then he dressed it up and suggested it was a conclusion when he stepped in front of a camera.
That's not how this works, especially if you're threatening prison time. Consider this number from the Conservative Heritage Foundation, a group that has made tracking down voter fraud part of their M.O. Across more than four decades of data, they've documented a hundred cases of non-citizens casting ballots. That's out of about 1.3 billion votes cast in presidential elections over that same period. If you wanted a percentage, those documented cases amount to 0.000008 percent. Those are cases that have been litigated and proven.
But the administration's playbook is different. Take a claim that has not been verified. Strip away the qualifiers. Make "potential" sound like proven. "May be" sound like is. And then shout fire. We're seeing it from Mullin right now, we saw it in Trump's speech last night, and we've seen it again and again from this particular president in election grievance after election grievance that he has aired for years.
And now, some state officials say the threat they're most concerned about isn't foreign adversaries or non-citizen voters, it's the U.S. government.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JENA GRISWOLD, COLORADO SECRETARY OF STATE: Make no mistake. He is in an open power grab and actively working to destabilize the '26 elections. The president may want to talk about debunked claims about foreign adversaries. But our top concern at this point is Donald Trump's federal interference.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: I've got an all-star panel this Friday night to help us cut through the political noise. I have president and CEO of Democracy Forward, Skye Perryman. She's also the author of the upcoming book, "Ordinary People, Extraordinary Times: How to Reclaim Your Power, Fight for Freedom, and Reimagine Democracy." Democratic strategist Joel Payne joins us as well, national political reporter for Time magazine, Eric Cortellessa, and Mark Bednar, who served as director of communications for former House speaker, Kevin McCarthy.
[23:05:01]
Glad to have all of you guys here tonight. Thank you.
Mark, I'll begin with you because the DHS is not only threatening jail time, which is very significant, it's also threatening to withhold federal funding for elections. Why take this particular approach?
MARK BEDNAR, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST, FORMER DIRECTOR OF COMMUNICATIONS FOR FORMER HOUSE SPEAKER KEVIN MCCARTHY: Well, I think, basically, after the speech last night, this will be yet to be borne out. Something that's really a breath of fresh air, kind of exciting, kind of reassuring about Markwayne Mullin, his presence, being at DHS, stark departure from Kristi Noem, who kind of operated on an island. Markwayne Mullin, much like the late Lindsey Graham, is seen as like a bridge between the Senate and the Trump administration, like he got a bipartisan vote in the Senate, and he gets a lot of accolades for actually communicating quite well with the Hill.
So, I think that there's still a lot of time and a lot of developments here. You know, he'll be able to explain himself both to the Senate, to the American public. Of course, if somebody broke the law, that should be something that, you know, should concern all Americans. But, of course, you know, it's very reasonable to say that there's still a lot of questions to be answered.
COATES: Certainly. And, by the way, now that he's heading that particular division and ICE is under it, maybe his goodwill in terms of credibility and communication might be faltering a little bit on things.
But, Eric, the president struck a very hostile tone against China, who he accuses, as we all heard last night, of carrying out the largest compromise of election data in history. Many people thought once he made that statement, there'd be an accompanying, you know, sanction or discussion about China or how to punish. That didn't happen. Why?
ERIC CORTELLESSA, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER, TIME MAGAZINE: Well, he didn't really have the goods. You know, they produced a lot of documentation. They revealed a lot of sort of reports or intelligence, but none of it amounted to these very sweeping claims that President Trump was making.
In fact, shortly after he gave this speech, John Solomon, who he sorts of asked to spearhead this investigation, went before the cameras in the White House and said that they hadn't exactly proven their case yet and they were still going to go forward with investigations.
I think it's very clear that, you know, President Trump is trying to shore up support among the Republican base to put pressure on lawmakers to pass the Save America Act, which has become one of his central preoccupations right now.
I also think what you're seeing with Markwayne Mullin and others is the use of intimidation as its own method to try to make state election officials fear defying the administration, to try and submit to their demands going into this very consequential midterm election because, as we can see, he is trying to have an impact on the way this election is going to be carried out.
COATES: And yet there are some he's not going to be able to put a lot of pressure on because they're either outgoing or -- I don't mean like charismatic. I mean, they are leaving. (LAUGHTER)
They are going out, right?
UNKNOWN: Maybe both.
COATES: Maybe a little bit of both. That's true. But he didn't -- every Republican was not very happy with what he had to say. I want to play for you some of what senators Cornyn and Cassidy had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN CORNYN (R), TEXAS: We have 109 days until the midterm elections, and I don't understand talking about what happened six years ago in light of these upcoming elections.
SEN. BILL CASSIDY (R), LOUISIANA: As a Republican, my concern is that it's setting up a Democratic wave election. We should be talking about what matters to the people around the kitchen table. And right now, they can't afford their health care, their housing, their groceries or the gasoline.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: And this is what some of the polling reflects already, right? He's underwater in his polling, and yet he is playing what he thinks is a very strong, you know, familiar song. But look at the approval rating there. I mean, Joel, when you look at this, why is he on this particular train? Does he think that, somehow, it's going to play well in the upcoming midterm elections?
JOEL PAYNE, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, I agree with some of Eric's point that he certainly views this as a way to get people, to bully people into focusing on the Save America Act. He thinks it's a way to kind of set up this straw man going into the fall.
This idea that our elections are stolen, but they're only stolen when he's president, right? Because what he essentially has said is that when Joe Biden and when Barack Obama were president, that the elections weren't stolen and that he won. But when he was president, the election was stolen in 2020. I mean, that's essentially what Donald Trump wants you and wants his supporters to believe. And as we're all sitting here at that table, that's a very rich -- I mean, I got a bridge in Brooklyn I can sell you if you want to buy that.
But the other point I would just make here is, listen, it is very cold comfort for a Democrat like me to have to put my trust in John Cornyn, Bill Cassidy, Thom Tillis, any of these Republicans who claim to be firebrands against Donald Trump right now. These folks have shirked from every fight Donald Trump has put in front of them.
And I can guarantee you, when the time comes to actually stand up and do something, they won't, because Donald Trump has read all of these people the exact same way since he has been on the public stage. He knows that the core of establishment Republican thought in D.C. is hollowed out, and he can push them over, and they'll roll over, play dead whenever he tells them to.
[23:09:59]
So, while I appreciate the nice words on the stage, I'd like to see that back up.
COATES: Well, people accuse Democrats, though, similarly, of not being able to, you know, cash the check their mouths are writing, and oftentimes, right? You've got the Senate Democrats Ed Markey framing the president's speech this way, Skye. "Trump must be impeached for undermining and subverting our free and fair elections. And when he sends ICE agents to the polls, then we must turn civic action into civil disobedience and take to the streets. Sit in. Protest. Withhold our labor. Everything must be on the table."
Is that the right message for Democrats to cover?
SKYE PERRYMAN, PRESIDENT AND CEO, DEMOCRACY FORWARD: I think the right message is the American people are not going to let this happen. I mean, what people --
COATES: Like what?
PERRYMAN: They're not going to let this president steal the election, and here's why. The White House doesn't like to talk about this, but there's zero for 16 in every single federal court. These aren't judge shop cases. This isn't one little judge sitting somewhere. Every single judge that has considered it has said, you know what, there's no basis for DOJ to ask for these voter rolls and to try to force the states to do it. We have blocked the DHS modified save database that I think the secretary was talking about today, and we're going to be back in court to talk about that with the court next week. And so, the courts are not a silver bullet, but the people are.
And this administration is losing across the board on the agenda. You do have people, individual voters across the country, including in deep red areas, that are upset about what's going on. I think this is political suicide for a lot of Republicans who are going to have to answer questions to the people in their district about all of this election distraction when really what people care about right now is affordability and, you know, the fact that none of us can eat vegetables right now because the president has decimated the government.
COATES: Yeah, of course.
PAYNE: Just to that point, you know, Donald Trump has basically -- he has shown you what he has for you as the American people, what you have to vote on this November. It's not about passing a housing bill to make housing more affordable. It's not about making your groceries more affordable. It's not about doing all the things that he promised he would do when he swept into office almost two years ago.
What it's about is he wants to make less -- he wants to make it harder for eligible people to vote, period, because he thinks if he can pick his voters, it's going to be easier for him to push away the accountability that's coming at him for, frankly, a failed two years of his administration.
That's what Donald Trump has to say to the American people, and I think people should take that and assess appropriately.
BEDNAR: One of the smartest things that have come out of kind of House legislation, especially Bryan Steil from the great state of Wisconsin, one of major tenets of his voter I.D. bill is to make sure that voter -- you know, election integrity with voter I.D. for every American, but to make sure that it's free, make it easy to access. Take away Democrats' number one argument against major provisions of the Save America Act, like make the barrier super low, make it free, let states have the ability to provide it.
So, hopefully, that can stay, you know, intact in the House bill so that if, in fact, they do go with this next reconciliation bill, you know, undercut Democrats' argument right out from under them. I think with the fact that 70 percent of Americans support voter I.D., make it free, make it easy, that way, you can actually even have an easier coalition go in and, you know, have more support from Americans up on this.
COATES: You know what's very telling, Eric? Fox News, they distanced themselves from the president's speech. They did not, like, do a whole segment on it. They weren't, like, all day spreading about it. They almost -- the very friendliest network to the president, I'd say. And they kind of had a 10-foot pole on this. You also had Sean Spicer, the former Trump White House press secretary, who had this to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEAN SPICER, FORMER PRESS SECRETARY, TRUMP WHITE HOUSE (voice-over): We need to have more of a call to action, more of a to-do list. I saw a lot of negative comments online last night from the MAGA faithful saying, "what else can we be doing? What else are we doing?" Raising an issue and then not having a solution is a little bit of a problem.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: That is pretty much the through line for many people criticizing it, especially because a lot of it was not new. They'd heard a lot of this before. What was revealed in the documents did not somehow move the needle. There was not a proposal to how to change it. There wasn't, as you mentioned, China.
When you look at this and think about the base complaining, a lot of people that are supportive of Trump, not seeing the rubber meeting the road, why do you think he continues to pursue this?
CORTELLESSA: Well, as you point out, it's a bit of a flop because it satisfied no one, right?
COATES: Yes.
CORTELLESSA: Obviously, it angered more moderate, more established Republicans who feel like this alienates average voters who don't think this is wise, who don't think it's really a salient issue going into this election. And, obviously, it wasn't strong enough for the MAGA base and the hardliners who want him to really take a strong position and commandeer sort of federal forces to, you know, interfere, if you will, in the election coming up.
I think President Trump is obsessed with this issue. I think, you know, it is kind of pushing on an open door for him. And I think he's setting up a whole range of dynamics where let's say they are not able to pass the SAVE Act, let's say Democrats and some Republicans block it, and let's say they lose 40 seats in the House, the Republicans lose 40 seats in the House, who is Trump going to blame that on? It's because they refuse to show up at his elections, he'll say.
[23:15:01]
So, you can already see him sort of four steps ahead, planning how he's going to navigate the next coming years based on how this plays out and a whole range of corrections.
COATES: Well, seed planting seems to work very well unless, of course, there are other issues people have. And the polling does say that. Stand by, everyone, please.
Remember, you are all a part of this show. We want to hear from you. Text us your questions and your comments, 818-972-7272. We're going to answer them later on this hour. Give me your first name, your city or state. I'd like to know who I'm talking to. That is the number, yes.
Still ahead tonight, Colorado Governor Jared Polis standing by with his reaction to Trump's election threats, plus his headline-making warning about the rise of socialism within the Democratic Party, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:20:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COATES: Democrats are grappling with what direction to go in for the midterms. And there are new signs it may head further left than the establishment might very well like. Today, in Wisconsin, an establishment candidate dropped out of the race for governor. Lieutenant Governor Sara Rodriguez, out. Now, progressives Mandela Barnes and Francesca Hong lead the race.
And in Michigan this weekend, the Senate primary between Congresswoman Haley Stevens and Dr. Abdul El-Sayed heating up. Senator Bernie Sanders and Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez will campaign with El-Sayed tomorrow. Meantime, centrist Michigan Senator Gary Peters just endorsed Stevens.
But it's the socialist wing of the party that has the momentum. Democratic socialist candidates have won several congressional contests. And centrist Democrats, they're trying to fight back. Just take Colorado Governor Jared Polis, who was called out for not supporting DSA candidates in his state. His response? Quote -- "I just care deeply about our state and don't want the socialists to destroy it" -- unquote.
Well, Colorado Governor Jared Polis joins me now. Welcome back, governor. Explain to me and our audience what is the danger you see in these DSA candidates that you think voters who support them might be missing.
GOV. JARED POLIS (D-CO): Well, look, I want to evaluate each candidate separately. But I can certainly talk about how socialism is a ticket to nowhere. Frankly, socialism is a lot of what President Trump has been doing. I mean, quite literally. Buying 15 percent of Intel. Having Department of Defense buy 10 percent of a company called MP Materials. Government ownership of the economy.
Here's what's wrong with that, Laura. Two things. Number one, it sets the government up as a player and referee. How can the government regulate the private sector to ensure competition and prevent monopolies if they're actually an owner of companies in the private sector and have a vested interest?
Number two, I'm a Democrat, I'm a progressive. I want universal health care, I want a strong social safety net. The only way to do that is to have the prosperity that a capitalist economy creates. No socialist country has ever had a successful economy. Every country in Europe is a market economy, capitalist economy. You have to be -- actually, to join the E.U., it's in their bylaws, you have to have a market economy. They all have universal health care. That's the model we need, capitalism and prosperity, not socialism and poverty.
COATES: And yet, governor, there are many who look at Democratic socialism and say it's not that they are opposed to money or an economy, it's the exploitation, it's the benefit of those who are in power and remain elite. I mean, the idea of socialism is gaining popularity among Democrats. In one poll, 55 percent of Democrats said it would be good for the U.S. to move toward socialism. I see the points that you're raising and I've heard others echo it in their concern.
So, if you feel their positions are so out of step or in the wrong direction, why do you think some of these candidates are resonating with voters from the Democratic Party?
POLIS: Look, socialism is a tool to further exploit people. By putting the government and the power of the economy together, you're preventing that counterbalance that government can provide against a runaway private sector.
Look, I'm frustrated, too. We as a party, Democrats, obviously Republicans, have not been successful in delivering on basic promises like universal health care. I think we should have universal child care. We made a big step towards that in Colorado with free universal preschool.
The way to do that is for prosperity to exist and to have a successful economy where you could actually fund these important life-saving priorities for people. That's why Democrats, historically, the future of the Democratic Party, is a capitalist party in opposition to the socialist Republican Party, which is buying up shares in companies and co-opting the private sector and empowering President Trump and the federal government to control our lives.
COATES: The elections are going to be very powerful in determining the direction that voters want to see the country go in, Democrats and Republicans, whether it's socialism or otherwise.
I want to turn now to the president's speech last night where he spoke about the elections. He claimed that foreign interference was putting our elections at risk, but you believe his speech will do nothing to counter even that perceived threat. What do you think was the real purpose of this speech given all the criticism and that there were no real marching orders and directives afterwards facing the president's, in many respects, rehashed grievances?
POLIS: Laura, I don't think I'm alone in saying I want that half hour of my life back. I mean, those were just ramblings. There was no coherent plan. I'm always glad that documents are released. I think it's important that the media go through those documents. I think it has been confirmed by media sources. I've seen that no -- there is no demonstration of any manipulation of an election.
[23:25:00]
So, I don't know what the purpose of that was. I mean, clearly, it's something that is in the president's head. I don't think it's strategic. My theory is he just thinks this stuff and he says it. I don't think it makes any sense. It was really just rambling. I wish we had that half an hour back.
COATES: Well, hold on, governor. I hear you. Got to cut you off. But let's just say for a moment you're feeling generous in one extent, intellectual grace here. When you think about the president, you really don't think he has a strategy in trying to bring up the 2020 elections again months before the 2026 or 2028? You really think he's just rambling or you think he's planting seeds?
POLIS: I wouldn't -- intellectual grace is too much credit to there being an intellect there that there really isn't. I mean, yes, look, there are two theories, Laura. You can say it's all part of some master plan to do something or you can say, look, the guy is obsessed with this, you know, even when his own staff tries to talk him down, but he does it anyway.
Thank goodness the founding fathers put elections in the hands of states. And we do a great job here in Colorado. We have all-paper ballots. We have mail-in elections. We have a gold standard for election security, signature verification. So, we do it. We're proud with how we do it. It's not the president's role to try to undermine trust in elections and undermine how the states are carrying out free and fair elections.
COATES: You and I have spoken about this in the past. I'm curious of your take given his speech because you did grant clemency to an election denier, Tina Peters. She met with Trump at the White House after she was released. She praised the president for the very same speech that you obviously take issue with and went as far as to urge him to declare a national emergency. What do you say to people who think that, based on your actions of granting that clemency, you may not be the best messenger on election integrity in this issue?
POLIS: Well, I think, if anything, I have a greater moral ability to talk about it because I'm able to say that, look, even though she has abhorrent opinions that, you know, she expresses and has expressed, we're not a country where we put people in jail for that.
You're in jail for specific crimes. She committed a crime. There would have been a normal sentence for it. That would have been two or three or four years. But the judge cited her speech as a reason for giving her a sentence that was a lot longer than an ordinary sentence for that kind of crime.
That's not right in our country. We need to call out these false talking points in a matter of debate, not seek to imprison people who have these viewpoints. Of course, if they commit crimes, they should do the time for whatever they do. But, in the meantime, we need to have this honest debate and convince the hearts and the minds of the American people that our elections are free and fair.
We have dedicated election personnel, county clerks, volunteers who fight to keep it that way every day on the front lines, and they certainly have my gratitude.
COATES: Well, do you believe that Tina Peters is remorseful now based on what she has said?
POLIS: I'm glad she's no longer a martyr, for sure. I think that there were a lot of people saying, oh, my gosh, she must know something, why are they keeping her in prison longer than she should be for the crime she has committed?
Now, she's just out there saying, you know, the same kind of nonsense that so many other people are saying. That will slowly fade from popular attention as people realize that, you know, she nor any others are bringing forward any legitimate evidence of successful interference with our elections here in the United States of America.
COATES: And quickly, governor, you did mention the pervasiveness of mail-in balloting in Colorado. The president is no fan. He will often point to mail-in ballots as a source of fraud. What do you say to the people who are looking at your state who uses it so widely?
POLIS: Well, it's a bizarre thing for him to say because he votes mail-in himself. But, again, there's very little coherence with a lot of what he says.
Colorado, we're 99 percent mail-in ballot. You can vote in person if you want. You can go on election day. You can early vote. Most people choose to do it in the convenience of their home. And the reason is, you know, it's easier to do, we have a long ballot with lots of questions for people, lots of initiatives, lots of referendums, and it works well for us. Now, for other states, that's their choice, how to run their elections. I hope that every state is committed to making sure that they can enable people who have the right to vote to be able to cast that ballot without having to wait for hours in line. Mail-in voting is one of the ways that it's done, and it's very popular in Colorado with Republicans and Democrats, and it's something that we're going to continue to fight for.
COATES: Colorado Governor Jared Polis, thank you for joining.
POLIS: Thank you.
COATES: Still ahead tonight, the head of DHS breaks his silence over those deadly shootings in Maine and Texas and vows to escalate what ICE is doing nationwide. The panel is back to debate it, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MULLIN: We're turning up the heat on the streets. We're out there working harder than we ever have because we've empowered our law enforcement to do their job.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: The Trump administration is vowing to keep up the pace of its immigration crackdown even after the recent fatal shootings involving federal agents in Maine and Texas. The full-throated defense of the administration's immigration agenda comes on the heels of President Trump's demand that ICE continue traffic stops just a day after ICE agents were told to suspend vehicle stops until further notice. Department of Homeland Security Secretary Markwayne Mullin insists there is zero daylight between him and the president.
Skye Perryman, Joel Payne, Eric Cortellessa, and Mark Bednar are back with me. Secretary Mullin, I mean, that was a pretty public blow when the president called inaudible on what we assumed his department was doing.
[23:34:59]
I mean, is this display of loyalty now a coincidence? Is there really daylight, you think?
BEDNAR: No, I don't think so. President Trump loves Markwayne Mullin. That's why he called him and said, I know you have a safe spot in the Senate, but come up here, help us clean up -- help us clean up DHS and fulfill our campaign promise here to, you know, enact our deportation priorities. So, I think that he is doing a really good job.
Obviously, moments like this, incidents with ICE like this, I look back to Minnesota, right? So, on the heels of what was basically a 90- 10 issue, all the fraud that was being uncovered, it even kept Tim Walz from running for re-election. And then what disappears from the headlines the next day, that very issue because of all the incidents with ICE in Minnesota. So --
COATES: What are you implying? That he somehow --
BEDNAR: That when these incidents occur, tragic and unfortunate as they are, you know, this is something that obviously needs to be cleaned up. There's foul play that needs to be looked at. But at no point should that distract from the fact that their fulfillment of the deportation priorities of the president -- that's going to continue. If there are edges around the corner to deal with, to smooth around, especially with these incidents in Texas and Maine, very unfortunate, but, you know, they're very clear-eyed about what they need to do.
PAYNE: America law enforcement should not be meeting routine stops with deadly force. These are unnecessary escalations. These are irresponsible actions by officers that don't seem to be trained. These are people who were recruited to be thugs on the street, and they're acting like thugs.
I actually care less about Donald Trump and Markwayne Mullin having daylight between them. I mean, that's great, you know, Donald Trump will throw anybody under the bus, he'll throw a family member under the bus. What I'm more concerned about is that it is dangerous for people to exist in their own communities.
In suburban Maine, what is the immigration emergency that's being addressed that required someone to be met with deadly force there? Can someone explain that to me? Can any Republican explain that to me? Will any Republican put themselves behind that?
That's what Donald Trump stands for. That's what Markwayne Mullin stands for. That's what every Republican on the ballot this fall is going to have to explain to their voters. It's a shame. It's terrible. And she is as well.
COATES: She has to address it. In Maine, obviously, a particularly hotbed issue for a number of reasons. But it's also -- you mentioned Minnesota. It's representative of every state in the country where there is an ICE presence, that there is the prospect. Obviously, in Maine as just one, this was somebody who had the legal working rights here in the United States as well. People are concerned about this. And I wonder how this will impact Republicans on races looking at not just Maine and Texas, but all across the country.
CORTELLESSA: It's going to have a huge impact. I mean, one thing this really reveals, this flare-up between Secretary Mullin and President Trump, is there is a divide within the administration. There is a tug- of-war between those who want a hardline, draconian immigration policy to really ramp up this deportation operation, and others who think that the just constant rove of negative headlines that emerged from these aggressive tactics early last year and in Minnesota earlier this year were terrible for the administration. There was an effort to get the president to pull back last January and February as things were going out of control in Minneapolis. And so, this is the primary debate that's happening inside the White House and President Trump's orbit, which is there are those who think we need to activate the base in order to boost turnout among our voters in this election so they don't sit it out. There's also the other camp that fears that we're going to alienate the independent voters and this broad coalition that swept us to power in 2024, and they will end up handing Democrats power because they don't like the fact that their communities are being terrorized by these ICE agents.
PERRYMAN: And I just want to say, these are not immigration priorities. This has crossed a line, and it crossed a line a long time ago. You have the president that in March of last year removed people from the country without any due process at all against the order of a federal judge. Then you have American citizens, people also with the legal right to be here, being met with deadly force, in addition to others being met with deadly force when there's no justification for it.
Every poll after poll is saying that the vast majority of Americans believe that this president has gone too far. Immigration, immigration issues in this country, that was a winning issue for the president at one point, but this has crossed over in so many ways over the past year and a half that you are dealing with these untrained thugs.
It is not normal. We shouldn't normalize it. It's not just an unfortunate situation that people are being killed at the hands of the federal government and that, frankly, Senate Republicans, every single one of them, every single one of them, voted to fund ICE without any additional layers of accountability.
COATES: I want you to answer that point, but I want to get the viewer questions as well who are eager to join in the conversation. Chris from Philadelphia asks, what is the Democratic Party doing to earn my vote instead of just being the anti-Trump party?
[23:40:00]
How are they planning to make our lives better? You want to take it?
PAYNE: I think that is a very good challenge to lay down for anybody who wants to vote, particularly the Democratic Party. I think every Democrat I talk to has long since understood the fact that being anti- Trump is not enough in this environment. I heard your conversation with Governor Polis, and I think we could spend more time on the intra-party conversation that's happening within the Democratic Party.
UNKNOWN: Yes, please.
PAYNE: But I actually think that what Democrats understand in this environment is that you are no longer in a place where you can just say a noun, a verb, and Donald Trump. You actually have to have a policy that speaks to people's experience and speaks to how you're going to make it better.
My only point I was going to make, Laura, was what happened to that man in Maine? He was killed in front of his child, pulled out of the car in handcuffs, and bled out on the street. What is the defense for that? What is the defense for that? Is there any? It's disgusting, anti-American.
COATES: I want to go to Amy from North Carolina. She asked this question. Was the president pressuring Brad Raffensperger for 11,780 votes in Georgia not election interference? If it wasn't, what is election interference? Who wants to take it?
PERRYMAN: I mean, I think it's clear this is not a normal situation. We've never seen the president of the United States, of any political party, seek to engage in this type of back and forth, this type of misinformation around election integrity.
The documents that the president referenced last night, by the way, they actually prove the other point. The only threat to election integrity in this country has been from the president's allies, people like Vladimir Putin trying to manipulate elections to serve the actual president's interests.
So, I think that there is a range of -- there is a range of definitions of election interference, but what we are seeing right now is active attempts to normalize election interference.
COATES: Thank you so much, everyone. I'll leave some of the questions on the table, but we'll answer them, don't worry.
Up next, on this Friday night, Christopher Nolan looking to conquer the box office and shut the woke critics down with his take on "The Odyssey." So, what is it about this film that has so many people talking? That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:45:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNKNOWN (voice-over): No one could stand between me and home. Not even the gods.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COATES: It has been one of the most hyped-up movies of the year, and probably for good reasons, a brand-new blockbuster from Christopher Nolan, an action-packed retelling of an ancient Greek epic. Oh, did I mention who's in the movie? You've got Matt Damon, you've got Anne Hathaway, Zendaya, and Tom Holland, Robert Pattinson, Lupita Nyong'o, Charlize Theron, even Travis Scott made the cut, everyone. And if I kept going, we'd be here literally for the length of the whole movie.
Now, the film was at the center of some controversy over its casting, particularly Lupita Nyong'o playing Helen of Troy. Mega influencers online slammed the film as too woke. Elon Musk even got involved, posting -- quote -- "Chris Nolan desecrated Homer and groveled on his knees just to meet the woke rules required to win an Oscar." I don't even know why I read that because that's nonsense. She's amazing. Who are you?
But as for actual moviegoers, they couldn't seem to care less. The film is getting universal acclaim for both critics and audiences, and could open to about $117 million this weekend, according to the latest estimates.
Joining me now, culture critic for "The Washington Post," Gene Park, who, yes, he has already seen it. OK, does it live up to the hype?
GENE PARK, CULTURE CRITIC, THE WASHINGTON POST: Absolutely. Thank you, Laura, for inviting me. It is an astonishing movie. When I left the theater at AFI Silver Spring, I was absolutely speechless.
COATES: Why?
PARK: Because it really harkens back to that old Hollywood feeling where you see practical effects, and you really feel like what you're witnessing is actually happening. I really forgot that I was just watching a movie. It just felt like I was transported. That's exactly what you want from a great fantasy movie.
COATES: Yes.
PARK: And, you know, I loved "The Lord of the Rings" movie back in the day. And really, this is the first film to give me that sensation again.
COATES: I love going to the movies. Everyone knows this. Sometimes, I think to myself, if it's -- and no offense to you, I do love you, but if a critic thinks it is film, I'm like, ah, I don't want cinema, I want a great movie. Like, give me a good movie.
PARK: So, here's the thing. You know, we were talking earlier before we went live that Nolan movies can be --
COATES: They can be up in the air.
PARK: Very overwhelming, a lot of information. They can be very heady. This one, I think, is a crowd pleaser. In my viewing, there were cheers at certain moments. And even me, I was, like, there you go. Like, that's the hype moment right there.
So, I think it really -- this movie isn't going to go over people's heads. I think that's why people love it because it's very -- and it's "The Odyssey." It is the foundation of Western myth. It is the story that so many of our favorite stories are based upon.
And to see, you know, the bones of the stories that we've loved over centuries, millennia, to be depicted by the way Christopher Nolan does it is fascinating. You know, it really is, like, probably his most exciting climax that he has ever done.
COATES: Wow! PARK: Most of the cheers were at the end of the movie.
COATES: Don't spoil it! Stop! Don't talk! Oh, my God. OK, let's go back for a second about how there were critics calling this woke because there were people of color who were cast because everyone knows there were no people of color at any point in history other than right now.
PARK: Of course. Yes.
COATES: Why on earth were there so many critics? Do you think it was at all justified to have -- I mean, one person said -- Alyssa Farah Griffin wrote, "You'd have to truly search to be offended by this film. The film, like the original story, is about devotion to family, upholding institutions, and honoring faith. Last time I checked, those were all conservative virtues."
[23:50:03]
But there had been a lot of attacks from conservatives about the film. Do you see any reason?
PARK: No, because that's exactly what -- that's what I saw in Alyssa. It is a profoundly classic movie, very masculine. It is about a man who wants to go home, to go back to home and heart. It is about protecting his home, about protecting the loved ones that he has. It's very traditional. It's very masculine. So, for anyone to see this movie and walk away thinking it's woke is purely delusional, I think.
COATES: All right. A lot of people are thinking, well, how do I see this movie? Not like, as in, how much time can I devote? Three hours is it going to take. Because I'll sit through it. But the type of film that it was actually filmed on and where it can be shown, you're talking about IMAX. Only 25 theaters in the country have these IMAX 70mm screens. The demand is off the charts. You saw it in a theater just like that. But is that going to be the only way you should see it? Tell me about the quality of that film.
PARK: So, I actually just saw it in regular 70mm, not IMAX, so I didn't get the full height of the IMAX image. And I enjoyed it just fine. I still thought it was breathtaking.
Now, would I like to go to see it in the full picture? I'd love to. I actually have a ticket over in Chantilly, Virginia, August 7th, because that's how far the bookings are going out. That's the earliest showing I can get, and this is like an hour and a half.
COATES: That's crazy.
PARK: So, I'm eager to see it. But I think for people who want to see the movie, I think they should not be too nervous or anxious about that because I saw it, and I thought it was great.
COATES: Just not on your phone, people. You would actually go to the theater for this.
PARK: Well, that's --
COATES: I get it right.
PARK: That's a little Christopher Nolan joke.
COATES: I know, right?
PARK: This is how Nolan really wants it.
COATES: Well, let's talk about his movies because, without a doubt, he's one of the few filmmakers who can still get people to the theaters. I mean, people always think about, as a Spielberg film, I'm going, right? And now, it's Christopher Nolan. You wrote an article ranking all of his movies. And I want you to tell everyone your favorites. I have them on the screen. You've got "Inception" as number one. OK.
PARK: Yes. I love "Inception." When I first saw it in 2010, you know, a lot of people say that his movies are really confusing, but I kind of get them, for the most part, immediately. I think "Tenet" is only the really one --
COATES: Wow.
PARK: It's really the only one that I had to watch, like, three, four times.
COATES: You watched "Tenet" three or four times?
PARK: Yes. I had -- it came out during COVID.
COATES: You had time.
(LAUGHTER)
PARK: There wasn't a lot to do, right? But I watched "Inception" right away and, like, it just struck me immediately. And so, I actually watched all these movies in the last week for this article, just to see how they all live up and how I feel about them. So, this is a fresh list right now. I think, really, "Inception" is still his masterpiece. I think this is the most personal.
You know, Leonardo DiCaprio as Cobb is about this architect of dreams, about how his obsessions can't get in the way. And for me, it's very autobiographical of Nolan. You know, all of his stories are all about obsessed men. You know, it's always male protagonists, Oppenheimer, Odysseus, and Cobb. So that's why I feel like "Inception" kind of encapsulates all of it.
COATES: Gene Park, thank you so much.
PARK: Thanks so much, Laura.
COATES: We'll be right back with a very special update on one of our CNN heroes.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:55:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COATES: Well, it's the 20th anniversary of "CNN Heroes." There's no better time to catch up with Quilen Blackwell, the 2025 CNN Hero of the Year. He employs at-risk youth in Chicago to grow flowers on vacant lots, and then arrange and sell them at his nonprofit shop. Since being honored in December, opportunities for his team have blossomed, and they even had a chance to join forces with another CNN hero.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNKNOWN (voice-over): Quilen Blackwell.
(APPLAUSE)
QUILEN BLACKWELL, CNN HERO: I was stunned. Absolutely stunned. It has just given us, like, that massive stamp of credibility.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST (voice-over): Being named "CNN Hero of the Year" brought new opportunities to Quilen Blackwell and his nonprofit flower shop, Southside Blooms.
HILLARY COHEN, CNN HERO: It's so good to see you.
COOPER (voice-over): It also led to a collaboration with a fellow CNN hero, Hillary Cohen. Her nonprofit, Every Day Action, rescues leftover food from film sets and delivers it to those in need.
BLACKWELL: Hillary and I hit off, like, instantly. To have that moment to meet people who really are passionate about compassion is absolutely phenomenal.
COOPER (voice-over): In April, Quilen and his wife, Hannah, brought a team to Los Angeles to help with Hillary's annual fundraising gala.
COHEN: It's so cool that he came with his entire team, and it's like my friends here.
COOPER (voice-over): He turned her workspace into a temporary flower shop, a step that also helped with Quilen's big plans for the future.
BLACKWELL: We are kind of looking at this as, like, a dry run of what it would look like to have an L.A. Southside Blooms location.
UNKNOWN: I never imagined I would be able to go to L.A., Los Angeles. That's crazy. I feel like I'm dreaming.
UNKNOWN: You can have that kind of thrill around.
BLACKWELL: Galas are your lifeblood, you know, for any nonprofit. It means the world that Hillary and her team is putting so much faith in us. Hopefully, she's not disappointed. (LAUGHTER)
COOPER (voice-over): The flowers and the gala were both a huge success. At the end of the night, Hillary invited Quilen onstage to announce a new initiative they developed together.
BLACKWELL: We had a conversation that turned into our collaboration, which is Flowers for Good.
COOPER (voice-over): The program gives nonprofits 20 percent of purchases made by their supporters. Quilen hopes that Hillary's group is just the first of many to benefit.
BLACKWELL: It's a way to really help share the bounty of flowers. Shop at Southside Blooms, sign up for Flowers for Good, and help support your favorite charity in the process.
[00:00:02]
COHEN: I think that two nonprofits coming together to help each other on this really big level, that's so beautiful.
COOPER (voice-over): For Quilen, it's another example of the power of flowers.
BLACKWELL: It just really makes me feel good to see Southside Blooms blossom.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COATES: To learn more about his work or to nominate your hero, go to cnnheroes.com. Hey, thank you so much for watching. Have a great weekend. "The Story Is with Elex Michaelson" is next.
