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Laura Coates Live

America Marks The 25th Anniversary Of 9/11; Economic Warning Signs Mount For Trump As Midterms Near; One-On-One With Legendary Rapper Busta Rhymes. Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired September 11, 2026 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[23:00:00]

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR AND SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Be sure to join Roy Wood Jr., Amber Ruffin, and Michael Ian Black for the season premiere of "Have I Got New for You." It's tomorrow night at 9 p.m. on CNN and streaming the next day with an All Access subscription. Thank you very much for watching "NewsNight." Tomorrow morning, be sure to catch "Table for Five" at 10 a.m. Eastern right here on CNN. "Laura Coates Live" starts right now.

LAURA COATES, CNN HOST AND SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Twin beams of light rising in tonight's sky above Manhattan, honoring those that we lost 25 years ago. Good evening, everyone. I'm Laura Coates. At this time, at this moment, a quarter century ago, this nation was entering the first of many sleepless nights, trying to make sense of the senseless. Countless families were calling. They were searching. They were waiting. Many still didn't know where their loved ones were or if they would ever see them again. Today, the tragic events of September 11, 2001, well, they were carved into history. But for everyone who lived it, it came one moment at a time starting at 8:46 a.m.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(BELL RINGING)

COATES: The ringing of that bell marked the moment American Airlines Flight 11 struck the North Tower in Lower Manhattan 25 years ago. There was silence at Ground Zero. All four living former presidents were there to remember. Vice President J.D. Vance was also there. Then they heard the names of the victims, read aloud, one by one.

The names of all 2,977 people killed on September 11 in New York, at the Pentagon, and in Shanksville, Pennsylvania. Each one representing a life, a family, a future cut short.

Among those listening, New York City's current mayor, Zohran Mamdani, along with the man who led the city 25 years ago, Rudy Giuliani. They shook hands, a brief moment together after controversy over Mamdani's attendance. Giuliani said days ago that it offended him that Mamdani would be there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: But the ceremony did have one pointed message to America's politicians from someone who lost her husband on 9-11. Terry Strada called out Saudi Arabia and U.S. administrations that she says have failed September 11 families.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TERRY STRADA, WIDOW OF 9/11 VICTIM TOM STRADA: My husband, Tom Strada, you are missed more with each year that passes, but how can it be 25 years and still we have no justice for the role that Saudi Arabia played in your murder?

(APPLAUSE)

Administration after administration, including leaders in front of us here today, chose to protect the Saudis instead of standing with the 9-11 families.

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: She then urged Vice President Vance to take a message back to President Trump, press Saudi Arabia for accountability. As for the president, he and the first lady attended the 9-11 commemoration at the Pentagon. Trump praised the heroism shown that day and the strength of the American spirit in the aftermath.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: With the events of that morning, 2,977 beautiful souls were ripped from our world and many more died in the weeks and years after. Today, we renew the sacred oath that we first swore in their names a quarter of a century ago. We will never, ever forget.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: With me tonight, 9-11 historian and journalist Garrett Graff, he hosts the podcast "Long Shadow: 9-11's Lingering Questions," and Josh Rogin, lead global security analyst from Washington Post Intelligence. Glad to have both of you guys here and your collective expertise because everyone has been reflecting on this. And today, the CIA declassified warnings that presidents Clinton and Bush actually received in their briefings.

[23:04:59]

And the intel, it was not conclusive, but one in 1998 said Bin Laden's supporters -- quote -- "may fly an explosive-packed airplane into a U.S. city." Now, Garrett, the 9-11 commission famously concluded this was a failure of imagination on the government's part. Now, looking back today, is that how it is still viewed?

GARRETT GRAFF, PODCAST HOST, JOURNALIST, HISTORIAN, AUTHOR: I think very much so. This was a plot where we may not have fully understood what al-Qaeda was plotting toward, but we certainly knew that there was a plot underway. You know, the CIA knew that known al-Qaeda operatives, Nawaf al-Hazmi, Khalid al-Mihdhar, were in Los Angeles, in the United States in the summer of 2001. Information that for various reasons, some of which I believe we still don't know to this day, never made it to the FBI. And that there was a failure to, in the terminology that came up after 9-11, to connect the dots in the lead- up.

But remember, Osama bin Laden was very forthright about the plot and his attempts to build a terror campaign against the United States. You know, he was on the FBI's most wanted list in June of 1999, more than two years before 9-11. This was not a mystery that he was coming for us and al-Qaeda was coming for the United States.

COATES: And Josh, that in part would explain the ongoing frustration that so many families even expressed today about the inability to connect those dots, the inability to have the foresight. And this is 25 years later and so many questions remain unanswered. It in many ways harkens back to a lot of today's critiques about what is known and not known about the safety of our nation.

JOSH ROGIN, LEAD GLOBAL SECURITY ANALYST FOR THE WASHINGTON POST, AUTHOR: Sure. I think the 9-11 families have a really good point about the failure of our system to both expose and hold accountable the Saudi government officials' role, which we now know was probably that the Saudi agents had connections to at least two of the hijackers who were in this country training to be pilots before the attack. You know, that's a tortured story, and the fact is that, for many years, the litigation couldn't proceed because the Saudis had immunity.

The Congress passed a law called JASTA to give the families the right to sue the Saudi government. President Obama vetoed it, and he was overruled. It was the only time he was ever overruled in his entire presidency. And that was 10 years ago, and they're still fighting. And the litigation is still ongoing, but it's not dead. And the Saudi government has lost its appeal to dismiss the case in U.S. courts. They're appealing that decision. That hearing is coming up.

So, the families still have a reasonably good chance of seeking accountability, transparency, truth, and reconciliation with the help of U.S. courts for whatever was the Saudi involvement, which we know is not zero, but we still don't have the details up to this day. I hope they get that accountability.

GRAFF: It's one of those things where the government, the U.S. government has always issued these very stark denials. They said, you know, there is no official Saudi government role in the 9-11 attacks.

But, you know, Josh has covered national security. You've covered national security. When the government starts throwing in modifiers like that to their denials, it's a hint of what the truth actually is. And so, the moment they start throwing in words like there's no official Saudi government involvement, it makes you think, what's the unofficial Saudi government involvement in the 9-11 plots?

COATES: You know, it also can breed skepticism, analogies that don't necessarily make sense. And one is the president, Pete Hegseth trying to cast the war in Iran as a continuation of the war on terror. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We salute every member of the United States military who served in the war on terror, and we salute the service members working right now to ensure the world's number one sponsor of terror, the Islamic Republic of Iran.

PETE HEGSETH, UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: We're still sending terrorists where they belong to hell and tankers to the bottom of the ocean where they belong. And we're ensuring that Iran will never have a nuclear weapon.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: I want to hear your opinion on this because many people had a sort of side-eye reaction to this and trying to identify which particular part they had these issues with. And one of them is the idea that the president, he was opposed to the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. This seems to be an imperfect stretch.

ROGIN: Right. Well, Republicans have been trying to tie Iran to the 9-11 attacks since 9-11. It has never held up. Many investigations have shown that those links don't really exist.

[23:09:57]

But, as you pointed out, what's really ironic here is that President Trump campaigned on a promise to not repeat the mistakes that were made after 9-11, including the invasion of Iraq, tying a country that wasn't related to the attack -- to the attack. And that's exactly what he has done. He started a war in the Middle East under false pretenses. And now, he's trying to tie it to 9-11.

And if you're going to say that any country that's a state sponsor of terror is related to 9-11, well, then you can attack North Korea and say that's related or Cuba. They're also state sponsors of terrorism. So, the argument doesn't hold up on its face and it's also a contradiction of everything that President Trump told his voters before he returned to office.

COATES: You know, I remember this day, as we all have, for the last 25 years. Sadly, we have looked upon this day with such sorrow in our hearts. And yet it has been a day that reminds us of the unity of the moments that united the nation, united the world, really, in many ways. And every 9-11, there's this longing for that unity that we saw after the attack. We can all remember when President Trump was throwing that first pitch at Yankee -- President Bush was throwing that first pitch at Yankee Stadium for Game 3 of the World Series. Garrett, talk to me about that moment when unity was really tested.

GRAFF: Yes. So, one of the things that we sort of forget in our mythologizing of 9-11 was how divided the country actually was even before 9-11. You know, George W. Bush was just starting his presidency. He had come out of the disputed 2000 election, the Bush v. Gore election. That morning, driving to Emma Booker Elementary School in Sarasota, Florida, his motorcade actually goes by a set of protesters, you know, calling him an illegitimate president, you know, holding up protest signs about Bush v. Gore. You know, this is Florida. This is ground zero for that election debate. Democrats, they're still very bitter in September of 2001.

COATES: The hanging chads.

GRAFF: The hanging chads. And that what we saw afterward was this incredible surge of patriotism and unity. President Bush hits 90 percent approval rating. You see one of the highest marks of sort of general patriotic fever in our country in recorded recent history. You know, united we stand, signs and flags sort of proliferate on every corner. And there is this real strong backing for that initial phase of the war on terror, including that initial bombing of Afghanistan leading into the ground invasion in November.

COATES: Yes.

GRAFF: President Bush throws out that first pitch of game three. It's a moment of sort of real strength and courage on behalf of the country, that World Series. You know, the New York Yankees playing in it. You know, the city is able to sort of rally behind them. And Bush very pointedly throws out that first pitch in New York for game three, not the first pitch for the World Series, which opens in Phoenix, Arizona the week before, because he wants to make sure that the terrorists can't say he's too afraid to go to New York.

COATES: Twenty-five years. Thank you both, Garrett and Josh.

Up next, she was a toddler inside the Pentagon's daycare when Flight 77 crashed into the building. Now, she is on a mission to run one mile for each of the nearly 3,000 victims who died that day. She's with me to share her remarkable story tonight. Plus, a tribute to the flight attendants and crews who lost their lives on 9-11. My next guest knew one of them and could have been working that day. My sister, Tracey Coates, shares her story, next.

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COATES: Hanna Born was nearly three years old in the daycare of the Pentagon when American Airlines Flight 77 struck the building on 9-11. Brave strangers rushed into the danger and rescued her and more than 100 other children to safety, making Hanna and her younger sister two of the youngest survivors that fateful day. Look at this photo taken just days later when their father took them back to the Pentagon to show them that even in the darkest times, there are always good people who will stand in the gap.

Today, that young toddler is standing in the gap herself as a U.S. Air Force captain. And to make sure we never forget the souls lost, she is on a mission to run a mile for every single one of them. Captain Hanna Born joins me now. Captain, thank you so much for being here and for your service. Can you just describe how do you go about processing a life-altering tragedy that you were too young to fully understand at the time, but too close to ever forget?

CAPT. HANNA BORN, CAPTAIN, U.S. AIR FORCE: Yes, ma'am. Thank you for having me tonight. I think my ability to process the trauma that my sister and I experienced has a lot to do with the support system we had around us. Our parents very early on made it a point, like you saw there, my dad taking us back to the Pentagon to show us, hey, you just witnessed something really scary, but look at all these good people who are coming to help.

And so, I think a takeaway that we both had is on days that reveal the worst of humanity, the best of humanity shines through, and that's kind of a lesson we've taken throughout our entire lives. My parents tried to reframe, you know, everything bad that happened. Don't be as scared of the sirens and everything else because that's just somebody who's coming to help.

COATES: More than a hundred million Americans today, they have no memory of 9-11.

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stead, they are discovering it on social media, where the history is often stripped of context, sometimes distorted. Has it changed how you look at what happened that day, given the way that your support system surrounded you?

BORN: I think my support system made sure that a takeaway for my little sister and for me was always how fortunate our family was and how many families didn't have that same outcome. And I think that's one thing I try to be very conscious of on social media. Sometimes, you look through, and for a long time, 9-11 was sacred. It was something that nobody would touch. And now, sometimes, you'll go on social media, and you'll see it used as a punchline.

And that's really what I wanted to steer away from because I cannot imagine, you know, one of those 2,977 families logging on and seeing the worst day of their life, not given the dignity and the respect that it deserves. So that's kind of why I started Run to Remember 2977, in hopes that we can honor the human component of it, say their names, share their stories.

COATES: And you are running 2,977 miles, one mile for every single 9- 11 victim that day. What is the message that you hope to carry across?

BORN: For the families who are out there, I hope they might hear a name of their loved one spoken for the first time in 25 years by a stranger and feel supported. And even though two and a half decades have passed, there are people out here carrying forward our promise to never forget.

And then for the younger generation, like I said, I hope that they can look at this and recognize the human impact of it and feel compassion and empathy for those families and want to learn more so that they can carry that promise through when some of us who have memories are no longer around.

COATES: So powerful and beautiful that you're doing that. And also, today, you and your sister serve in the U.S. military. How much did the bravery of the people who saved you that day inspire your own decision to serve?

BORN: It absolutely inspired us, having the experience that morning. My mom elected to stay in uniform. She felt called to continue serving after September 11th, and so we grew up in a military community. We saw families who continued to sacrifice as their loved ones deployed in support of GWAT. And I think that combined experience, there's a lot of ways that people can serve, but the community that embraced us was the military, and that's why both of us volunteered for this direction in our lives now.

COATES: So powerful to hear you, captain. I mean, really, as a mom, I think about the idea of how to keep our children calm, how to think about letting them know that the sirens mean help is on the way. That's just such a powerful thing you said. Thank you.

BORN: Yes, ma'am. Thank you again for having me. I'll share like one short story with you also as a mom. When we moved out to Colorado after having lived in D.C., the first fire drill that my school had, I was essentially inconsolable. My parents both had to come in that day. But the daycare worker, after talking to them, realized why that was the case. And so, for the rest of my time there, every time we had a planned or unplanned fire drill, she would come find me and help me. And so, you know, it's the loved community of by blood and also the community around you that helped shape you.

COATES: So powerful. Thank you. Thank you for sharing that.

BORN: Thank you. Thank you for spending time with me tonight. I appreciate you making time for this segment.

COATES: Thank you so much for your service, Captain Hanna Born. Thank you.

Thirty-three airline crew members went to work the morning of September 11 and never came home. Twenty-five were flight attendants. Amy Jarret was one of them. She was on United Flight 175, which crashed into the south tower of the World Trade Center. She was just 28 years old.

Joining me now is someone who worked as a flight attendant alongside her. She was scheduled to fly that same route, but a broken foot kept her on the ground. And she also happens to be my sister, Tracey Coates.

Tracey, I go back to that day knowing all that I know about the remarkable person you are. And I want you to take me back to that moment when you had a broken foot. You were scheduled. This was your route. You'd flown with this crew many times. But you were grounded that day and only learned about 9-11 because you were substitute teaching in a kindergarten classroom. Take me back.

TRACEY COATES, FORMER FLIGHT ATTENDANT, UNITED AIRLINES: Exactly. So, because I wasn't flying, I was doing substitute teaching on and off in a kindergarten classroom that morning. And you and I are both moms. We know that there's a certain protocol procedure in order to get kids out of the classroom.

But this particular day, you know, it started sprinkling of different parents directly into the classroom and literally just taking kids out. And then it became more and more. And we really had no idea what was going on. And there happened to be a television in one of the break rooms nearby down the hall. And then that's when we saw and knew exactly what was going on that day.

L. COATES: When did you realize that it was your crew that had perished?

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T. COATES: I think that was a little bit much later on in the day. I don't know if I really sunk in, even if I did know the flight numbers and names then. I think that it took some time for me to probably come to a reality that there were people that I actually knew that had perished that day.

L. COATES: What was it like when you realized that people like Amy, other members of the crew, the pilots, that could have been you? What is that like?

T. COATES: You know, I think about that, but I try not to think about it very often. You know, it's one of those things that I think is part of how I've protected my own peace of mind and sanity all these years. But when I do think about it at times like this, it is -- it's really, really unbelievable when I think about sort of what our routines were, what I know that they would be doing before the flight, then as we took off, then as they are flying. And to think how they must have felt --

L. COATES: Afraid.

T. COATES: -- when they -- absolutely terrified when they knew something was actually wrong because I'm assuming for part of it, you don't really know. You're going about your job, doing what you need to do. But then what did that feel like at that time when you knew something was going wrong?

L. COATES: You know, when you were turned back to work, I remember you talking about how getting back to the airport -- their cars were in the parking lot still, people who had lost their lives, still in the parking lot. Protocols changing almost overnight. Blood drives happening. And what was expected of a flight attendant on these airlines had transformed overnight.

T. COATES: It really had transformed overnight. I mean, you know, I was 27 years old. It was fun. I was flying all around the world. But after 9-11, it became a very, very different job. Our safety and security protocols changed. I mean, any time a pilot would come out of the bathroom, we would have to barricade the door with our beverage cards. There was no more parking on the terminal where you would see the cars of people who didn't necessarily make it back that day. It just -- it was really very, very difficult to embrace this new reality that we were living in.

L. COATES: And I remember you got back on a flight once, and people were clapping for the flight attendants and the pilots who chose to return to the air. That must have been a very big change, knowing the way that people saw, in many ways, the heroism and the despair.

T. COATES: I think -- I mean, absolutely. It was one of those things that I think that people finally took notice, sort of, and appreciated, that even in that moment, there were flight attendants, there were crew members who were with their loved ones that day and did their best that they could to protect them on all of the flights that went down. And I think that it was really a great time to see not only, you know, our airlines come together, but the community, the country, everybody.

L. COATES: Well, I, for one, am so grateful every day that you did make it home. God bless the people who did not. I'm glad you shared your story. Thank you, Tracey.

T. COATES: Thank you.

L. COATES: We'll be right back.

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LAURA INGRAHAM, FOX NEWS HOST: What do you expect the historians to say about this era?

TRUMP: When the books are written, I think they're going to say I saved the country. I really believe it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COATES: The president is striking a highly confident tone as he looks past his party's midterm pep rally. But back here in the real world and on the kitchen tables of everyday voters, a slew of brutal economic news is threatening to shatter that very confidence.

Consider the trifecta of pain hitting Americans today alone. Diesel fuel has crossed the $6-a-gallon mark for the first time in history. Investors are bracing for the Fed to hit Americans with another interest rate hike next week. And to make matters worse, a vital Saudi Arabian oil pipeline has been forced to shut down after a coordinated drone strike triggered massive fires. And what does that all mean for you? Higher prices. With me now, former special assistant to President Joe Biden, Meghan Hays, and former national spokesperson for Senator Ted Cruz's presidential campaign, Rick Tyler. Glad to have both of you guys here. It's quite the trifecta among other trifectas. Rick, I'll begin with you because that's a tsunami of bad economic news to have 53 days until the midterm elections. How does that complicate the message and, of course, the timing for the White House now?

RICK TYLER, DIRECTOR OF ADVANCED SCHOOL OF POLITICS AT THE LEADERSHIP INSTITUTE, FORMER NATIONAL SPOKESPERSON OF TED CRUZ'S PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN: Well, the timing is not good. I mean, we are now past Labor Day, and this is when people start to begin to realize there's an election. And, you know, in a constitutional republic, when people have to pay attention, usually somebody gets fired, and they are paying attention because it's the affordability. Look, if you have capital and you are invested in the market, you've done pretty well. It's not bad.

COATES: That's not most Americans.

TYLER: That's right, though.

[23:34:55]

That's the problem, is that if you have the working class who's paying extraordinarily high rents or can't afford to buy a house, have no capital, living paycheck to paycheck and the price -- and the paycheck keeps getting -- the buying power of the paycheck is smaller and smaller, people are really feeling the pinch. And this messaging coming from the so-called, you know, unconventional convention is just tone deaf.

COATES: How about Democrats? How can they seize on this in an effective way that makes voters say, OK, I hear the complaints you two are making, but what can you do about it if you are in their role?

MEGHAN HAYS, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST, FORMER SPECIAL ASSISTANT TO PRESIDENT BIDEN: I think Democrats really are going to have to come up with solutions. First, they obviously have to take back power, and they have to at least have one chamber of government here. But I think that one thing with the diesel prices going up, that's really going to impact people or that's going to impact the price of goods. Trucks are not going to be able to go as far. Companies are going to have to subsidize those trucks going, which is going to be passed on to the consumers.

COATES: Right.

HAYS: There's just more and more prices going up. And the White House isn't saying, we hear your pain, we're working on it. They're not saying any of that. They're just saying, oh, too bad for you. But, therefore, Democrats have to say, we hear your pain, and here is a solution.

COATES: The solution is going to be the most important. I think a lot of voters are so keyed in to figuring out what that solution would be. And also, the issue of data centers is coming up. I mean, that wouldn't have been on someone's bingo card maybe a couple years ago, but it certainly is for people right now. And the president is suggesting tonight that China may have had a hand in the outrage. Listen.

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INGRAHAM: So why do people don't want them in their backyard?

TRUMP: Because, somehow, they've got -- I mean, a lot of people say it's China. You know, a lot of people say that it's a China P.R. thing. If you take a look at communities where these plants open, the people are making a fortune. Their houses are much more valuable.

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COATES: I don't think a lot of people are saying this. Is he completely naive to what's actually happening?

TYLER: I actually have a nuanced view on this. Look, if you -- we can build -- we can have both. We can build data centers in a responsible way that don't impact neighborhoods. But there are -- in this area here, in the Washington, D.C. area, there are data centers that have their own gas turbines, and they make a whining noise. And if you're near them, you're going to hear it. And that is not acceptable. But you have these politicians who are saying moratorium and bans on data centers. That's not rational either.

COATES: But is it rational for the president to point and deflect to China as being it's a P.R. thing? That's not what's happening?

TYLER: No. This is gaslighting. This is like gaslighting about the economy.

HAYS: But he's missing some of the point here. I think it is actually really nuanced. People are uncomfortable with A.I. in general, and data centers are now the target of that because they don't know what is actually going to impact them with A.I. Are they going to lose their jobs? Are these data centers going to raise their prices with electricity?

COATES: Is humanity going away in 10 years?

HAYS: Exactly. And so, it's all now being focused at the data centers because they understand that they can't go after big tech because the government isn't choosing to regulate or do anything themselves. So, the regular person sitting at home in these communities, data centers are their target now. And so, they are -- they are a necessary evil in a lot of ways. But the President is completely tone-deaf blaming it on China. A lot of these communities have rightful complaints about this. And we also have a rightful complaint about A.I. and how that's going to impact our future.

COATES: Well, the president seems to think people will have a rightful right to $5,000. He has tripled down his $5,000 promise to voters. He posted on Truth Social, "When I say something, I mean it! The $5,000 dividend will happen because the people of our country deserve it. Vote Republican."

I mean, is that a legitimate lifeline for people to make ends meet? I mean, $5,000 is $5,000. That's good money. But it's conditioned on election and Republicans winning. And if you had it then, why not give it to them now?

TYLER: Well, because it's a gimmick and there's no money to get it from.

(LAUGHTER)

COATES: Thank you for that. I mean, I could not have scripted that answer better, but go ahead.

TYLER: Look, it's true. Look, $5,000 -- look, if there -- let's give $5,000 to everybody, right? OK. So, why not $10,000? Why not $15,000? And the absurdity is when J.D. Vance said that, you know, tariffs are going to pay for it, that presumes that every adult first has to pay $5,000 worth of tariff taxes so they can get the money back in a check. It makes zero sense.

Plus, the messaging is all wrong. The Republican side, at least when they used to be conservative, would never have this idea of redistributing wealth. Second is you have others saying, Lutnick and others saying, well, we're just going to sell stocks. Why does the government own stocks? Why are they manipulating the economy? I thought we were free market Republicans.

COATES: It's like he's writing a script for Democratic strategists.

HAYS: Look now. Socialism is what they are screaming.

TYLER: Yes, but left-wing economic populism is no better than right- wing economic populism. It's all the same thing.

HAYS: I'm just making the point that Trump is coming after Democrats for socialism, and this is exactly the kind of thing that he wants to do. These $5,000 checks are never going to happen. Also, you can make a promise you know you don't have to keep because he knows he's going to lose. So, it's really easy to say we'll do this when you know you're not going to have it. But there is no money to give to people because the American people already paid this money. So, it's foolish.

COATES: All right. Well, Rick, Meghan, 53 days to see if the voters agree. Thank you both.

[23:40:00]

And I've got a quick update on a trial that we've been telling you about. A federal jury has acquitted rapper Lil Durk on all counts in his murder-for-hire case. The feds had accused him of ordering and bankrolling a murder for hire of a rival rapper that led to the death of a different person. His defense argued he had zero role in the alleged scheme and the co-conspirators could not be trusted. And today, the jury believed him. Not guilty on all counts. It's Friday night, which means it is time for my star witness of the week. And I got a real treat for you because my guest tonight has had us all in check for decades. Yep, the one, the only Busta Rhymes is next.

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[23:45:00]

COATES: That's the new song from my star witness tonight, the legendary rapper Busta Rhymes. Yes, the groundbreaking, innovative, rapid fire rapper is as sharp as ever 30 years after dropping his first solo studio album, "The Coming." His new album is a tribute to the late hip-hop producer J Dilla.

J Dilla made his mark as a pioneering producer, creating unusual beats that became the soundtrack to artists like Erykah Badu, "A Tribe Called Quest," and Busta Rhymes himself. The two formed a musical partnership that turned into a lifelong friendship until Dilla passed in 2006. And when Dilla died, he left behind more than 300 unreleased beats. Twenty years later, those beats make up the backbone to Busta's new album, "Dillagence 2," and it's out now.

And I got a chance to sit down and talk to him about his new music and A.I. and even politics. I'm so glad that you are here. I can't believe it. I'm glad to have you. Thank you.

BUSTA RHYMES, LEGENDARY RAPPER: Laura, thank you. It's such an honor and a pleasure and a privilege to be able to sit down with you tonight.

COATES: Tell me, why now create this new album?

RHYMES: Number one, I definitely feel like there's no clock better than God's clock. So, divine timing is definitely something. You know, we are -- we are -- we embrace it with grace. When things are meant to happen, they're supposed to happen, and that's when it will happen. That's number one.

But number two, the most specific detail of why this happened. In addition to that was Ma Dukes, which is Dilla's mother. And I love -- big shout out to Ma Dukes and big shout out to the whole Yancey family, Illa J, which is Dilla's brother, and his two beautiful children, Ja'Mya and TyMonae. They have always been extremely supportive of the relationship and the work history that me and Dilla has shared together for the last 30 years, even though he has been gone for 20, because I continue to do this music in my projects.

But his mother hit me last year in November while I was actually at the tail end of finishing another album. She was letting me know that this was the 20-year anniversary coming up in 2026. She was trying to figure out what would be a beautiful and special way to celebrate the 20-year anniversary for her son.

And without question, I had to make sure that I did something to contribute to honoring the life, the legacy, and the legend of my brother and her son. I thought that doing a couple of songs, which I traditionally do, would be great to figure out what could I give people, that the people never heard, something new, something exclusive.

COATES: Well, you say divine timing, right? That call was not a coincidence. And you have -- I think her voice makes an appearance on the album. You also have a song with vocals from the late singer D'Angelo as well as other big names like Common and Big Sean and Lil Wayne. I mean, what was it like to be in the studio with them again and also honoring that beautiful voice of D'Angelo?

RHYMES: First and foremost, I got to give a big, huge, and tremendous shout out to everybody that participated in the album because they all came to honor not only Dilla and myself individually, but they also felt an obligation to contribute to honoring our collective work history and what we've always been able to do throughout the 30 years of working and being a part of each other's legacies.

But the thing that I do want to give a big shout out to is the fact that I met both my incredible brothers, J Dilla and D'Angelo, through the incredible Q-Tip from "A Tribe Called Quest."

COATES: Oh.

RHYMES: So, you know, these brothers are 30-plus year friendships of mine. It's a bittersweet to be able to have these incredible moments to share with the world with them, but not have them here to do it. But they're still present through their work. So, they're still here.

COATES: You just naming those albums, I think, takes my audience back. Somebody remembers themselves in some setting, and they have a soundtrack right now based on what you said. Do you connect still with hip-hop today?

RHYMES: Oh, absolutely. The goal of being able to stay relevant is to be swift and changeable in order to stay remainable. So, you've got to change with the times. You can't get stuck in a time. Stagnation means that there's no growth happening.

COATES: I've always loved your creativity. I want to ask you because there's a lot happening in the world right now. There's so much pressure sometimes for people to want their creative muses to speak on all things. They want them to comment on everything, from politics to culture to sports, anything else. Do you ever feel like you have to be in all of those lanes and all of those spaces or do you think that your space is where you are?

[23:50:02]

RHYMES: My space for me is to make sure that I touch on everything that helps bring people to the highest elevation of themselves. That's the greater goal because a lot of the times, when you try to engulf yourself and all of the many different things, the distraction of you giving yourself, spread yourself, then attention to everything, it will definitely compromise your ability to reach your highest self.

And I feel that when you actually prioritize reaching your highest self, it actually helps you navigate all of the shenanigans from politics to religion to whatever the things are that people are so caught up in finding division in. I think that if we start redirecting this energy and really seeing the value in each other, we will do some really superpower, Avenger level, X-Men level-type of things.

(LAUGHTER)

COATES: Well, let me ask you about that because, look, you know, you talk a lot about the human spirit and the human mind and the creativity that it generates. I've been following your discussion about this for years. I'm wondering what you think about A.I. because this has been a big part of a lot of musical pushes now. Would you ever use A.I. to produce an album? Would you ever use it in a way or think that it would replace the human artist?

RHYMES: First and foremost, there is nothing more divine than the soul and the spirit and, you know, what the most high made in his likeness. Whatever A.I., they got to get it from me, they got to get it from us. You know what I'm saying? So, at the end of the day, we're the maker, the owner, the creams of the planet, you know, the fathers of civilization, and the gods of the universe. That's what it all boils down to when it comes to the human soul and spirit, right? So, we're going to start there.

Number two, I don't ever say, like I said earlier, being swift and changeable in order to stay remainable is important. So, I don't rule out any possibility of exploring how to use evolution as a possibility to add to civilization productively. But with every positive comes a negative. So, everything has to be dealt with from a mindful perspective in moderation. So, I have not felt the need to use A.I. in any of my music yet, and I just feel like until I do, I'm going to keep it as close to the divine energy that I was gifted with. It's possible.

COATES: I like that phrase, remainable. I like the way you think. All right, listen, I got -- I have some rapid-fire questions, but I want to get to know you a little bit better, if you don't mind. Here's a question I have for you. When was the last time someone told you no, and were they right?

RHYMES: I actually have been told no recently. And in more than one instance, some personal, some business because I've had to say no when it came to my personal space and my business environment. And I think it's very important to respect and reciprocate it and give it when you need to, especially when it comes to your peace of mind and your happiness and your joy.

COATES: A whole word. I love that. I mean, no is a complete sentence. I tell you that right now. RHYMES: Yes.

COATES: I'm going to ask you this. What do people assume comes easily to you?

RHYMES: I think people assume that I'm always the wild out energy buster rounds. You know what I'm saying? I'm definitely -- I always love to be in and feel good energy space the majority of the time. But then there's a significant amount of time in my day to day where I just need to be in my Zen space.

(LAUGHTER)

COATES: You are speaking truth, and I so appreciate that. Let me ask you this last thing. If you could tell your 20-year-old self one thing, what is it?

RHYMES: If I could tell my 20-year-old self one thing, it would have been to make sure that you took the time to learn how to love a lot sooner than later properly, how to manage your money a lot sooner later than -- sooner -- a lot sooner than later properly, and also how to prioritize your self-preservation a lot sooner than later as a priority because it's super important to, like I said, be in the present.

[23:55:00]

We did a lot of amazing things in the past. Yes, we celebrate milestones and album anniversaries and abundances this year alone, five-year-album and five different album anniversaries I'm celebrating this year, but the most joyful part about that is while we're celebrating all of the hard work, I'm still gifting you with today's smoke. So, whatever smoke you want, I'm with all the smoke.

(LAUGHTER)

Let's get to the smoke.

COATES: Busta Rhymes, I love talking to you. Thank you.

RHYMES: Thank you.

COATES: You can catch the rest of that great interview on my social, @thelauracoates on Instagram. And thank you all for watching. "The Story Is with Elex Michaelson" is next.

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